View Full Version : my god what have you done
now as most of you know i'm one of the biggest monk activists ever i love the class but seriously what have you done to the apu's ppu's?
was out hunting in a little rhino last night that does 515 damage per hit to grim chasers oO yet when i hit an apu with foreign cast shelter def it does 12 damage.
I dont remember foreign cast being that good whats changed?
also do certain terra clans have any non monk combat chars? and why the need for 3 ppu's to each apu?
i know monks always were stupidly powerful but just now they seem 3x more powerful than any other class
Bugs Gunny
29-11-05, 11:59
Oh didn't you know?
They removed the apu-ppu malus, gave monks the epic gaya glove plus they added this thing where you have to hit someone for more than 15% dammage to lose sl. This means hybrids are very much alive again, monks get it realy easy to hack and poke without being gimped and ppus all go for 100sl and they never lose it anymore, meaning no loss of high slot spells.
Yes, most clans use one ppu per fighter and a dedicated paraspammer ppu nowadays.
I wonder how the returning vets are going to react on the forums when they see all this :D
Logan_storm_03
29-11-05, 12:10
nerf PPUs and boost Medies!
well every one seems to complain about PPUs but its very rare for someone to turn down ppu support :rolleyes: but anyway it is the general feeling that something must be done with the PPUs to improve the balance, just hoping something is done in the near future. Personly I like to fight without a ppu but I wont exactly turn one down if they offer to help ;)
They should try on the PvP server getting rid of the PPU skill completly from all classes and just boost medies quite abit. See how that turns out. Probly alot more vehicals taken to op fights :p
APUs will be 10 seconds from death, but deal out the most destruction.
Tanks will have the best survivablity
shortly followed by PEs
and spys will probly find it best just to snipe. :cool:
Bugs Gunny
29-11-05, 12:14
That would be a nice idea to try on the test... euh i mean neptune server :-)
But you would need to give the tradeskiller drivers a resurection tool.
also do certain terra clans have any non monk combat chars?
Yup, FF for example ... we attacked some CA clan with a 4 in the name with just spies and PEs ... hacked 3 layers (didn`t plan to do hacknet because we just wanted to fight) then a PPU popped out of the UG ...
We shot him for about 10 minutes waiting for more to come ... then suddenly they came with double the force including apu&ppu teams ... bleh, they SAW we were only PE and Spies, why chicken out of a fair and fun fight by bringing apu&ppu teams ?
I guess the clan is up for it anytime ... i`d love to do a no-monk opfight, it`s been a while :-(
Cheers
Bugs Gunny
29-11-05, 12:18
Well, you can't realy complain about that, you do it yourselves :-)
But if you want a no ppu opfight i'm all up for it.
Should be fun.
RogerRamjet
29-11-05, 12:19
Yup, FF for example ... we attacked some CA clan with a 4 in the name with just spies and PEs ... hacked 3 layers (didn`t plan to do hacknet because we just wanted to fight) then a PPU popped out of the UG ...
We shot him for about 10 minutes waiting for more to come ... then suddenly they came with double the force including apu&ppu teams ... bleh, they SAW we were only PE and Spies, why chicken out of a fair and fun fight by bringing apu&ppu teams ?
I guess the clan is up for it anytime ... i`d love to do a no-monk opfight, it`s been a while :-(
Cheers
OMFG YOU ATTACKED AN OUTPOST AND SOMEONE DEFENDED IT!!!111
Come on, what about when lone PEs raid CRP and get a lovely APU/PPU reception.
Logan_storm_03
29-11-05, 12:20
what some thing like a nano biomatter reconstruct tool that you poke a dead person once, then it takes a minute for them resurect to pop back op on 50 health :p, meybe other goodies to give the tradeskiller combat support but no attack/defence :cool:
Bugs Gunny
29-11-05, 12:22
Yeah, the one with the 135 implant req on it :-)
And medpacks should not take away tamina and heal like a tl3 heal.
Logan_storm_03
29-11-05, 12:32
Yeah, the one with the 135 implant req on it :-)
And medpacks should not take away tamina and heal like a tl3 heal.
one can dream
well ill be happy if anychange is made. When I was a noob back in NC1 I remember that PPUs while where always there never seemed to be as common in fights and op fights as they do now and in late nc1. infact meybe its just peoples NC2 mindset thats causing the problem. I remember our nc1 clan used to augue whos going to log a PPU because people where more interested in just having a good time on their pvp char. Some times they didn't even bother taking one. But that could be that spirit mods and stuff made ppus less effective in op fights since they could be taken down alot easyer.
So meybe it could even be this red vs blue causing the problem, people seem to take it more serious about the pro vs anti. 'Omg we gotta win!, must log asmany PPUS!' so both sides and clans do it just to gain an advantage on each other intill it gets out of hand :confused:
Dr J Zoidberg
29-11-05, 12:43
If anyone remembers the FanG PvP video, there is a huge fight between about 100 people roughly even sides. about 1 ppu to two fighters and group S and D . There were vehicles being used including rhinos and revellers. It was CA V TG and the factions that hated each other. mass free for all i suppose. But, finding the fact that there is now a Pro V Anti in place, this makes it even easier for all people to have a communal fight, and fight multi clan and multi faction. Personally, I have no problem with this if it is an event, (trying to get one organised) but if it is at an OP battle, the clan that is defending the OP should only bring one clan (their own) and not to rely on 5 clans in 3 factions to come help them just so they dont lose the OP. If you want to take the OP back, you come back when youre lcna has more members, not when its outnumbered by 3 to 1 (the 3 being the multi clan and faction).
Thats my small rant and hinting towards a huge event. ^^
-Z
should hope i do remember the fang video tbh oO i was in it.
but yeah even now i agree something has to be done about ppu's since i left when they were balanced pretty much now theyre far too overpowered oO
as for how us vets will handle it i'm sure we'll be fine we only have 3 ppu's in clan so our opwar team will at max consist of 3 ppus and we only have 2 apu's rest are pe's tanks or spys
so for those of you like elchi stating you'd like none monk fights you know roughly what our op war team is going to consist of when you know its us attacking try not brining 90 ppus with you then and have a proper fight like you request
should hope i do remember the fang video tbh oO i was in it.
You were also the voice in the promotional video wernt you?
Anyway monks have been like this for a while now and when i read your first post i didnt assume much of it but thats only because i thought it situation normal as its been this way for so long.
Theres been many a debate in the community and was even some ideas brainstormed from Callash on the forums be fore he left but alas nothing came of it.
Yup, FF for example ... we attacked some CA clan with a 4 in the name with just spies and PEs ... hacked 3 layers (didn`t plan to do hacknet because we just wanted to fight) then a PPU popped out of the UG ...
We shot him for about 10 minutes waiting for more to come ... then suddenly they came with double the force including apu&ppu teams ... bleh, they SAW we were only PE and Spies, why chicken out of a fair and fun fight by bringing apu&ppu teams ?
I guess the clan is up for it anytime ... i`d love to do a no-monk opfight, it`s been a while :-(
Cheers
I donīt want this to turn into a flamewar and whatnot..
but.. that has got to be a first time occurence.
Itīs practically always FF being double the numbers of their opponents, with the vast majority of their fighters being monks.
Original monk
29-11-05, 14:14
i remember this incident of killing an FFmember at CRP with my hybrid ... about 5 minutes later there where 12 .. yes 12 monks that rushed in CRP ... 6 apu's and 6 ppu's ... the apu's didnt touch me ... heck why did they bring em ?? i died of DB and paraspam before 1 HLshot reached me :)
says enough :)
edit: yeah ! gotta love some balanced fights now and then lol ... also dont think procity is that much better ... get a ppu up youre ass and kill a few peeps at PP3 :) the city is always empty but i can assure you after some time entire PP is filled and waiting for you :) i should get the movie of my HD and you see how plain rediculous it can get sometimes :)
but yeah even now i agree something has to be done about ppu's since i left when they were balanced pretty much now theyre far too overpowered oO
They were always like this, only now people have really started whoring them.
They were always like this, only now people have really started whoring them.
naah they were never like this
naah they were never like this
Foreign cast holy shelter/deflector/heal, level 3 primes, damage boost, parashock.
They seem the same to me, the foreign s/d's were even nerfed in Nc1.
Bugs Gunny
29-11-05, 14:37
Yes they were.
And back then they even had catharsis sanctum too.
Itīs practically always FF being double the numbers of their opponents, with the vast majority of their fighters being monks.
Meh, I'd disagree. FF sure do that, but in fact, if to rank the number of times its happened to us, FF would actually probably be down in 2nd or 3rd place. I think every clan has caried out a monk zerg once, its just if its made a habit of that its a problem.
Scaramanga
29-11-05, 15:23
Remove Para.
runs and hides
This shit is getting rediculous though. Either do a massive nerf of the PPU or APU damage, or bring back resist psi.
This shit is getting rediculous though. Either do a massive nerf of the PPU or APU damage, or bring back resist psi.
bring back?
I donīt remember it actually working at any time...
bring back?
I donīt remember it actually working at any time...
Oh dear :( Not even in NC1?
Ok then, please make it work.
Oh , can some get me a link to the thread that has all of the technical combinations for weapon skill? Like how construction is some intelligence, some dexterity, and most construction? Can't seem to find it.
Oh dear :( Not even in NC1?
Ok then, please make it work.
Oh , can some get me a link to the thread that has all of the technical combinations for weapon skill? Like how construction is some intelligence, some dexterity, and most construction? Can't seem to find it.
yep here ya go:
Neocron 2 Skill guide (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=118196)
its in player2player help.
I think every clan has caried out a monk zerg once, its just if its made a habit of that its a problem.
even fetish?
Digital-Talios
29-11-05, 16:03
to my knowledge FETISH has no monk support ;)
Bugs Gunny
29-11-05, 16:04
Yes we do.
When we need to climb things we use them as steps.
you are such a mean person.
Dear me you need to know some things
Resist PSI = This resists a type of dmg called PSI Dmg that used to be around in nc1 beta it does not resist Holy Lightning = energy or para
Yes we do.
When we need to climb things we use them as steps.
It's comments like these that make people love you, ok bugs?
Looking back over the years of Neocron, I think that the potential for monkocron was always there, but it took a few years for everyone to learn the absolute best combinations to fight with (ie APU/PPU for most situations). Any game with the complexity and combat combinations that Neocron allows will take a certain time to be understood by the community - for instance the exact effects of skill points was not officially confirmed for the first few years and there was a lot of speculation before that.
At launch of Neocron 1 a lot of the existing German clans (that pre-empted the UK launch) were all Tanks, but I think monks could have been equally dominant back then if people had tried it.
Edit - just realised its 3 years since UK launch of Neocron...
i'm fairly certain that a foreign buffed apu takes more than 12 dmg from a rhino
no they really dont we were laughing about it
no they really dont we were laughing about it either way, ppus have been the same for ages now and it's not a huge problem killing them or people buffed by them unless your not an apu :lol:
Bugs Gunny
29-11-05, 16:53
That must have been an apu and ppu with heals and heal sct running.
And yes, a good apu-ppu combo will destroy a rhino easy.
i remember this incident of killing an FFmember at CRP with my hybrid ... about 5 minutes later there where 12 .. yes 12 monks that rushed in CRP ... 6 apu's and 6 ppu's ...
Yeh, i know how this usually happens ... it goes like this on vent
"There`s SHITLOADS of reds at CRP that killed me help" (2 reds actually there)
Everyone gets excited and wants a piece ... it`s like Obelix: "LEAVE EM ALL FOR ME"
:-(
OMFG YOU ATTACKED AN OUTPOST AND SOMEONE DEFENDED IT!!!111
Come on, what about when lone PEs raid CRP and get a lovely APU/PPU reception.
1) Yes, but with clearly (the PPU had more than enough time to notice) only Spy & PE chars around why bring a full opforce ? That`s just ridiculous ... it`s like "OMG there is a mouse gnawing on my shoe, WHERE IS MY BAZOOKA ?"
2) Yeh, CRP raids are something completly different, it`s always like hitting a hornets nest ... tbh i`d like to be on the pro-city side of this one once, i imagine it`s much more fun as for us :(
But if you want a no ppu opfight i'm all up for it.
Should be fun.
I actually got the impression that we were going for one of your ops and i told lore to DM you to get a PE/Spy only fight ... only when the ppu came outta the UG i realized we were going against CA not CM %-)
But i`ll suggest that next time, expect a DM ;)
Leave the in-game stuff in-game where it belongs. No more "naming and shaming".
N
Bugs Gunny
29-11-05, 17:18
"I remember this one time when Nidhogg brought his ppu to bandcamp and ........"
Leave the in-game stuff in-game where it belongs. No more "naming and shaming".
N
not my fault this time i mendioned no names :)
RogerRamjet
29-11-05, 18:01
Looking back over the years of Neocron, I think that the potential for monkocron was always there
It was only there when the anti buff was brought in, in my opinion.
RogerRamjet
29-11-05, 18:03
1) Yes, but with clearly (the PPU had more than enough time to notice) only Spy & PE chars around why bring a full opforce ? That`s just ridiculous ... it`s like "OMG there is a mouse gnawing on my shoe, WHERE IS MY BAZOOKA ?"
2) Yeh, CRP raids are something completly different, it`s always like hitting a hornets nest ... tbh i`d like to be on the pro-city side of this one once, i imagine it`s much more fun as for us :(
Im sorry, but you should know if you get killed by a PE, spy, monk or tank at CRP. Just because the PPU had "time" to see it was all PEs and Spies isnt an excuse.
Leave the in-game stuff in-game where it belongs. No more "naming and shaming".
N so after people have been flaming FF in pretty much every thread, you finally decide that it's bad?
RogerRamjet
29-11-05, 18:23
Stop Whine!!!
Vae Victis
29-11-05, 18:35
I dont remember foreign cast being that good whats changed?nc1 shelter > nc2 shelter
the best (and prolly only) non monk clan = FETISH.
PEs and Spies only.
they rox :) except for that Asurmen guy, he sucks, but hes good :p
so after people have been flaming FF in pretty much every thread, you finally decide that it's bad?I know the feeling, ppl flamed ncat in every thread, even offtopic ones
Logan_storm_03
29-11-05, 18:51
aye, playing with fire gets you burnt
but imo fetish does apear to be the best none monk clan.
Vae Victis
29-11-05, 19:10
That must have been an apu and ppu with heals and heal sct running.
And yes, a good apu-ppu combo will destroy a rhino easy.a normal apu/ppu combo can destroy a rhino.
a good hyb can destroy one :)
smurf and me once chased a rhino through about 12 sectors, cuz 1 of them inside had 2 rares on him/her :p
we got the rhino, killed em, I hacked the belt.. stam booster :(
a normal apu/ppu combo can destroy a rhino.
a good hyb can destroy one :)
smurf and me once chased a rhino through about 12 sectors, cuz 1 of them inside had 2 rares on him/her :p
we got the rhino, killed em, I hacked the belt.. stam booster :(
Ive chased a rhino from MB to elfarid, looping past gabanium on a melee tank wearing it down with a POB before :D the gunner apparently reported me for cheating, because i was too close to the rhino for him to hit me, well duh, with no range, being melee, what am i gonna do ? Stand 10 feet back, do no damage and just let him kill me :lol:
Vae Victis
29-11-05, 19:31
the gunner apparently reported me for cheating, because i was too close to the rhino for him to hit me, well duh, with no range, being melee, what am i gonna do ? Stand 10 feet back, do no damage and just let him kill me :lol:just lol :lol:
Bugs Gunny
29-11-05, 20:06
Vae Victis, it's not hard to be the best non monk clan when you're the only one.
As a matter of fact we also hold the title to the worst, the lamest and most mediocre non monk clan on terra :-)
Vae Victis
29-11-05, 20:07
Vae Victis, it's not hard to be the best non monk clan when you're the only one.
As a matter of fact we also hold the title to the worst, the lamest and most mediocre non monk clan on terra :-)not to mention the most perverted (monk or non monk, doesnt matter) clan in the nc history! :D
THE_TICK!!!!
30-11-05, 05:11
"I remember this one time when Nidhogg brought his ppu to bandcamp and ........".........stuck a para up his.......
That must have been an apu and ppu with heals and heal sct running.
And yes, a good apu-ppu combo will destroy a rhino easy.
Eh, rhinos move pretty fast now, I'm sure whoevers inside can usually get away before being destroyed. Though, the rhino probably won't ever be able to kill the ppu/apu.
I've rezzed an apu in front of a rhino with my buffs, s/d, heal and heal sanctum just crouching down, I was around 300 of 400 health by the end of it. So that kinda goes to show :rolleyes:
RogerRamjet
30-11-05, 10:09
I remember when me and Skelly got chased by 3 - 4 DarK from CRP in a Rhino.
We finally killed them after theyd chased us to the Twister club :D
Christ, that was back very early NC2.
bring back exoitic psi use for shelt + reserect and i think it will ballance things out : )
Original monk
30-11-05, 10:47
it`s like Obelix: "LEAVE EM ALL FOR ME"
now i understand :) great comparison :lol:
Come on, what about when lone PEs raid CRP and get a lovely APU/PPU reception. what about when i'm walking around on my pe at crp and I get attacked by a lovely apu/ppu team?
Bugs Gunny
30-11-05, 12:46
Zelt, you know very well what he's talking about.
And indeed, not everybody is stupid enough to bring just spies and pes to raid crp.
Some actualy bring monks to fight the monks.
I was doy for a few weeks. I know why the zerging at crp happens, it's because most doy are bored out of their skulls and when someone is raiding crp they all jump to the opportunity.
However the boredom is all your own fault, so if you want to fix it, there's plenty of options.
RogerRamjet
30-11-05, 12:54
I used to love my Crahn spy. Id see a PPU and tank from Pro enter CRP zone. Seconds later, someone on alliance would scream "PRO CITY ZERG AT CRP", at which point id pick off anti stragglers who came to attack them.
Fuck it, i dont even think im gonna log Terra anymore. I know why this community gets branded the worst for any online game.
However the boredom is all your own fault, so if you want to fix it, there's plenty of options.
Not all, seeing as how crp is an op that is heavy populated by doy, and there is
a public gr near by it makes it a very good place to raid / get pvp, no guards etc.
The choices I have is to either go to MB and be lame @ zoneline or have the
guards eat me for breakfast, or go to pepper park 3 where all city ppl are either
at zoneline and zone as soon as you hit them, or they run into the safespot with
the city guards.
If they removed guards from the zones, there would be alot more pvp in the city.
Then anti would get a chance to raid something aswell and not just sit on our
asses and wait for some pro's to come to cycrow.
Bugs Gunny
30-11-05, 13:24
Have you ever tried looking in the wastes?
A typical run from mb to bd to I06 usualy gets me 2-5 kills.
Have you ever tried looking in the wastes?
A typical run from mb to bd to I06 usualy gets me 2-5 kills.
I have, but there are two problems there, the biggest one being the low pop so
the players are to spread out, and the fact that i only seem to find LEd ppl
hunting.
"Fix" ppus and I couldn't care less how many ppu/apu teams I see at CRP.
I have, but there are two problems there, the biggest one being the low pop so
the players are to spread out, and the fact that i only seem to find LEd ppl
hunting.
I'll gladly hunt at battle dome a bit more for you guys once I get my libby.
This means hybrids are very much alive again
I'd rather play a Neocron with 100% of monks being hybrids than a Neocron with 50% being pure ppu 50% being pure apu, don't you ? At least, no matter the distribution, people playing any kind of monks should be a lot less for both pvp and roleplay reasons.
On the other hand, about the hybrids again : since many seem to suffer about how overpowered apu-based hybrids are supposed to be, I wouldn't be against some kind of new malus on hybrids that would lower the effectiveness of both apu/ppu skills depending on how far from the perfect 50/50 ppu/apu your setup is (pure ppu and pure apus not being part of the formula of course). This way, only 50/50 hybrids, pure apus, and pure ppus would still be efficient for pvp. The exact opposite of the previous 30% then 5% malus in a certain way.
I mean, atm even 50/50 hybrids being unbeatable by any class 1vs1, they still remain almost useless (or at least no more powerful than any other class) in OP fights, and are barely killing any runner who's contenting on fleeing when things are getting bad (no powerful para, average damages), definately depriving them of the "overpowered" mention when you're not focused on duels to define what "pvp" is.
People agreeing with the following statements couldn't ever agree with me on that point :
- "fair duels are common pvp situations in neocron"
- "any class excelling in duels are broking game balance"
- "apu is overpowered"
- "ppu is overpowered"
- "any class should be able to kill another one in a fair duel"
- "PE's have to be an overpowered class again"
Sorry for being a little late on reacting, but I don't think I'm off topic there.
To conclude, I suggest to threadstarter he uses a revealer gun with stealth on any buffed apu to enjoy the uber damages :cool:
"Fix" ppus and I couldn't care less how many ppu/apu teams I see at CRP.
If KK had a test server they could remove the Gaya glove, and revert monks to their NC1 standard (with Cath Sanctum as well), and we can see how it plays. Personally I prefered NC1 monk-status, there was a lot more variety at OP fights, and people weren't always so keen on bringing their PPU to an OP fight.
Yup, FF for example ...
I stared in disbelief at this statement, whenever I fought FF in any clan I've ever been in (PAIN, U4N, Paradox) at least a third of FF have been PPUs alone, and at least another 2-5 APUs (and I've got a video to show how FF respond to a handful of people raiding Cycrow, and all that came out of the UG were monks).
I guess the clan is up for it anytime ... i`d love to do a no-monk opfight, it`s been a while :-(
Anytime being in the literal sense, even when the enemy isn't online. The only time I've seen FF bring more fighters than monks somewhere is to your fight nights.
its nice that players of lower skill level can use a monk and do some damage rather than being a waste. not having a recticle is a nice way to get round the fact its harder to shoot a gun (??!?)
lets get rid of holy heal s and d, then we can all have a little bit more fun eh..
@Morganth: I was talking about arranged opfights ... at least thats what i understood it was about
Did you ever ASK for a opfight without monks ? dm the clanleader and asked ?
See, thats what i`m talking about and i`m sure Bugs is thinking the same.
But most people seem to have lost their ability to do a civilized conversation ... not excluding my own clan that is.
I`m a person that likes to talk to other people, i mean, we all play this game for fun, right ?
Oh, and yes, anytime enough people are on of course, ty for correcting me :)
And im not gonna comment on the cycrow situation because why argue if we agree ?
RogerRamjet
30-11-05, 17:30
If KK had a test server they could remove the Gaya glove, and revert monks to their NC1 standard (with Cath Sanctum as well), and we can see how it plays. Personally I prefered NC1 monk-status, there was a lot more variety at OP fights, and people weren't always so keen on bringing their PPU to an OP fight.
When the Gaya Glove was brought in, monks PA should have been removed. (and PE PA should never have bee brought in :p).
Vae Victis
30-11-05, 18:34
When the Gaya Glove was brought in, monks PA should have been removed.dude thats exactly wot I said in another thread
/edit
so it's true..
great minds think alike :D
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