View Full Version : crossbow pe???
mmm whats the best aim ur getting of ur crossbow pe's on neoskiller and are the numbers accurate... i been thinking o roling a CB pe for a while. i dont realy mind the grind ill force ma mates to help or sumin. i was jus wondering what neoskiller says ur aiming is. and if its accuraye or i should mess about with a setup my self
(i never realy used a pe since this game began, tryed but its always so urgh u know. always tank spy or monk... so this is gona be fun :rolleyes: )
so how many points u think need to be invested in pistol n in weplore to get a decent aim
Dribble Joy
18-11-05, 02:56
Can we try that again with grammar, spelling and puncutation?
if u wish to spell check gramma check n punctuation check for me sure we can try again. when i read that back it looks fine to me. but hey im dislexic and cant spell for shit... ill have to find my copy of word. install in and then use it to tell me where im going wrong. but tbh if u cant understand that it aint me with the problem
how much weplore and how much pc goes into a crossbow pe... its not hard to understand
[PiN]Fluffy
18-11-05, 05:37
get about 60+ psi use... Then rest into WPL for best perofrmance. you cant spare enough hacking point or poking or anything to be effective so pure WPL. And i would say 170 ish PC... But these are numbers based off my old X-bow PE Back before WoC rerquirment.
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 05:47
an xbow spy wold be loads better, a pe has to gimp resists a little to cap the thing whereas a spy (with less drugs than regular pvp spies) can get better resists than a standard spy setup
an xbow spy wold be loads better, a pe has to gimp resists a little to cap the thing whereas a spy (with less drugs than regular pvp spies) can get better resists than a standard spy setup
I dont think so Mechanicus. Infact i know for sure that a crossbow pe will have better everything then a spy with a crossbow exept the pe stealth.
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 07:01
then your a newb.
Alright post a spy setup thats you're uber crossbow spy setup and ill post a pe setup thats better in every way. I have tested em both alot, i know what im talking about.
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 07:13
im not posting shit
i know im right and your wrong and thats all i care about
an xbow spy wold be loads better, a pe has to gimp resists a little to cap the thing whereas a spy (with less drugs than regular pvp spies) can get better resists than a standard spy setup
erm lol. you gotta be kidding.
theres simply no comparison:
pes: no drugs, DB, better con
spies: at least one drug to start with, noDB, worse con
why is it better ?
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 07:49
pes gotta gimp to get the points to cap it
spies get points freed up so they can change to a more defencive setup
A PE needs a lot more p-c than for a judge to cap the xbow and get a decent aiming on it. The setup can still be quite defensive.
But compared to a spy it just comes down to personal preference. If you like DBing and scuba diving, go PE. If you wish to get the xp in a decent amount of time and don't like to look like an idiot, roll a spy. And i'm talking about 100k dex xp a minute. That's how i got woc-1:)
In the end it's just some health and poison resists. And if you think a spy can get a better defensive setup than inqui1/heavy enr belt/moveon/pp resistor, i doubt it'll work cause of the high reqs for the heavy enr belt.
Btw. Anyone got a ceres disk? :(
Bugs Gunny
18-11-05, 08:10
Xbow PE is not going to cap it, unless he has low psi use.
If you wanna hack, you'll get realu realy low psi use.
Wbox pe is going to need 3 drugs to be effective, and will end up with spy resists but more health.
So, if you wanna drug a lot, go for pe. If you want to use just 1 or 2 drugs the spy is better. Also getting woc on a spy is a "tad" easier.
go for both epic chips in as a spy and u also need a drug to put inqui in. add another one for shelter usage, which in turn means psi with some 43ish mana :D and u got 2 drugs. What are we comparing? Gameplay is nerfed. You will get drugflash. And you will still lack the bonus of DB.
the problems lie elsewere, and its not that you look like a lobster running in wastelands :lol:
Xbow PE is not going to cap it, unless he has low psi use.
If you wanna hack, you'll get realu realy low psi use.
Wbox pe is going to need 3 drugs to be effective, and will end up with spy resists but more health.
So, if you wanna drug a lot, go for pe. If you want to use just 1 or 2 drugs the spy is better. Also getting woc on a spy is a "tad" easier.
Xbox PE needs microsoft
I was implying (as you know) a no drug pe setup bugs. Yes, I forget hacking too, with hacking u frget about psu. If you take a drug, then you can really fully cap that gun no matter what and still have some psu. btw i saw you handling your DB quite well latelly :D ... get to msn
:lol:
Mmm maybe i exagerated a bit on the xbow pe vs spy thing. I still thing pe's are better though, more then what bugs said. (btw i hate calling you bugs gunny for some reason. Just dousent seem right.)
So if you dont mind sharing, how much dex, p-c, wpl does it take for you to near cap that thing?
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 09:02
A PE needs a lot more p-c than for a judge to cap the xbow and get a decent aiming on it. The setup can still be quite defensive.
But compared to a spy it just comes down to personal preference. If you like DBing and scuba diving, go PE. If you wish to get the xp in a decent amount of time and don't like to look like an idiot, roll a spy. And i'm talking about 100k dex xp a minute. That's how i got woc-1:)
In the end it's just some health and poison resists. And if you think a spy can get a better defensive setup than inqui1/heavy enr belt/moveon/pp resistor, i doubt it'll work cause of the high reqs for the heavy enr belt.
Btw. Anyone got a ceres disk? :(
can make a few tweaks, such as putting high agl in dex, so you can take points out of ath and put em into resists, if your gonna eat a redflash then you run even faster
pes gotta gimp to get the points to cap it
how does he have to gimp himself compared to a spy ? it have no dex REQ i belive anymore so a pe can use pp chip movon SA SF or in stead of sa or sf a targeting 3 and he can use db dont have to drug etc liek jini said omg there is no comparrison
2 epic chips is a nono. u penalize a bit of defences but gain so much in return from offence that its crazy. the prob is the endless grinding and the search for woc disk afterwards... the later you have it with a spy as well
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 09:42
he wont get anywhere near cap on the xbow with that setup though, he'll do earp damage with it and aim will be like dev at max range
its the same tl as a judge but the stats come at like 100 dont they?
imagine trying to cap a judge with dmg/freq at 100 with a pe set up the way you just posted lore
175 PC and around 130 weapon lore caps it
Lifewaster
18-11-05, 10:18
I find xbow/slasher/exe spys generally hit me harder then xbow pes , I have a suspicion that maybe having higher then required dex gives better accuracy on the xbow/exe/slasher despite having capped aiming/handling in both cases etc.
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 10:27
maybe the pes just dont cap em, im sure most spies set themselves up with the minimum to full cap the dmg/freq so they can run faster
Bugs Gunny
18-11-05, 11:36
102 dex, 133wpl and 172pc is what i have and i get capped dammge and aim.
FREQ is the bitch though, as i get 84 and it caps at 92.
maybe the pes just dont cap em, im sure most spies set themselves up with the minimum to full cap the dmg/freq so they can run faster
show me how you can do this on a spy, and still have decent resists and i can show you so many pe setups that achieve the supposed 175/130 reqs to cap the gun. And I do talk NO drugs here. but if you prefer drugs get a redflash and fly. the spy will never be able to do this = no comparison.
In short: the crossbow is like the only weapon made for pes
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 12:15
arguments over, i already won.
I have played a spy who got 91/min freq (dmaage and aiming capped) with 105 WEP and 181 PC. And it wasnt an exceptional xbow.
i have a realy good slasher/exe pe setup which used to be realy overpowered which me, winnoc, phil and snypa used to use... blood pe's for the win tbh
havent seen no other pe setup better
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 13:03
there is, i have it.
Scanner Darkly
18-11-05, 13:06
Can we try that again with grammar, spelling and puncutation?
Are you kidding? He's Neocron's very own Jeff K.
Are you kidding? He's Neocron's very own Jeff K.
ok who is jeff k. now and what is shatn0rz????? :confused: :confused: :confused:
awkward silence
18-11-05, 16:43
That interpretation sucks!
Try the original Queen ;)
Other than that id say thumbs up :)
wront thread lol
ok who is jeff k. now and what is shatn0rz????? :confused: :confused: :confused:
I think the link is www.somethingawful.com/jeffk , not sure though since I'm at school and I can't check.
i have a realy good slasher/exe pe setup which used to be realy overpowered which me, winnoc, phil and snypa used to use... blood pe's for the win tbh
havent seen no other pe setup better
Yeah right. :rolleyes:
awkward silence
18-11-05, 17:39
I think the link is www.somethingawful.com/jeffk , not sure though since I'm at school and I can't check.
JEFFK RUELS!1 ;)
I know paless lowtech pe's are very good if they can stick the db. Otherwise the exe pe setup is much better.
128 fire, 130 energy, 118 xray, 0 poison (greendragon wooo), 450 hp, 80 athletics, 114 agility, oh and i only get 170ish dmg and a 1 less rof then cap on my executioner, but thats becouse i prefer the melee 1 over pistol 1. I should probably reskill to use a pistol 1 and stuff but realy, im to lazy. 2 drug pe setup self buffed.
Whats the comparable uber spy setup that noone seems to have?
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 18:05
i didnt say spies were better for all setups, just for xbow ones
plus i could set up a PE with resists/hp/speed like that with capped exe and 60 poison minimum
I know paless lowtech pe's are very good if they can stick the db. Otherwise the exe pe setup is much better.
128 fire, 130 energy, 118 xray, 0 poison (greendragon wooo), 450 hp, 80 athletics, 114 agility, oh and i only get 170ish dmg and a 1 less rof then cap on my executioner, but thats becouse i prefer the melee 1 over pistol 1. I should probably reskill to use a pistol 1 and stuff but realy, im to lazy. 2 drug pe setup self buffed.
Whats the comparable uber spy setup that noone seems to have?125ish fire/enr, 170ish xray, 0 poison (greendragon wooo), ~385 hp, no clue about athletics (70 or so?) 120ish agility,, oh and i only fully cap my slasher/executioner. 3 drug spy setup self buffed.
As i said, hp and maybe poison but you don't even have that specced. Wow. o_O
Oh and remember me to attack you with an xray modded gun next time ingame. :lol:
And don't tell me some "DB WOOO" shit, by the time you managed to stick a rather slow DB on me because of your psi setup/pa/low psi use i have taken off at least one third of your amazing 450 health. Did i mention i got anti db drugs in my belt? Or that i don't have to take off my armor to buff up/rebuff?
Personal preference, as i said.
what if he dbs u 3 times and u end up with a drug flash? muhahah
what if he dbs u 3 times and u end up with a drug flash? muhahah
Haha, i had that at cycrow some days ago fighting a judge PE with a PPU. I got DBed and parad so often that i went down to my knees drugflashed and ended up crouching to the genrep. ;)
Still killed the PE twice. :lol:
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 18:36
what if he dbs u 3 times and u end up with a drug flash? muhahah
then hes already dead
and i think spies are better for any weapon tl110 or greater
PEs best weapon is judge+db
plus i could set up a PE with resists/hp/speed like that with capped exe and 60 poison minimum
No, you cant.
125ish fire/enr, 170ish xray, 0 poison (greendragon wooo), ~385 hp, no clue about athletics (70 or so?) 120ish agility,, oh and i only fully cap my slasher/executioner. 3 drug spy setup self buffed.
Well thats alot better then i thought you could do with a spy. Resists are to high to make much diffrence and 70 hp less is alot less. Not to mention lower stats on a shelter. I would estimate your defence to be lower then mine with the same attack while needing 3 drugs. Good, but not as good as an exe pe setup.
And don't tell me some "DB WOOO" shit, by the time you managed to stick a rather slow DB on me because of your psi setup/pa/low psi use i have taken off at least one third of your amazing 450 health. Did i mention i got anti db drugs in my belt? Or that i don't have to take off my armor to buff up/rebuff?
I dont often use db becouse if my target is tough they usaly keep anti dmg drugs.
Asurmen Spec Op
18-11-05, 19:34
My setup has 120 all resists, 56poison 180 total runspeed, caps an earp/libby hacks 90. 130 PSI. and 500HP.
and only 1 drug :)
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 21:22
No, you cant. [quote]
yup, i can.
[QUOTE=Asurmen Spec Op]My setup has 120 all resists, 56poison 180 total runspeed, caps an earp/libby hacks 90. 130 PSI. and 500HP.
and only 1 drug :)
i could do that with 130 resists, over 400% on shelter, over 80 poison and capped freq on all pe psi spells (apart from maybe blessed def) with still only 1 drug
Asurmen Spec Op
18-11-05, 21:27
i could do that with 130 resists, over 400% on shelter, over 80 poison and capped freq on all pe psi spells (apart from maybe blessed def) with still only 1 drug
Wooo for your freq.... I dont even pay attention to my FREQ, just my dmg.
and 130 resists is pointless compared to 120.
Also, Im surre you can, however my only drug is nightspider, whats yours.
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 21:32
nightspider, 130 resists is pretty nice, i find it gives a decent amout of defence over 120, especially combined with the high% on shelter
Wooo for your freq.... I dont even pay attention to my FREQ, just my dmg. Type out your DAMN words
Asurmen Spec Op
18-11-05, 22:16
Type out your DAMN words
=( owch.
We wernt comparing a lowtech pe resist to an executioner pe resists. That would be just retarded.
I want to see you make my setup, an executioner pe setup with 2 drugs and everything self buffed, with more resists and poison resist.
i could do that with 130 resists, over 400% on shelter, over 80 poison and capped freq on all pe psi spells (apart from maybe blessed def) with still only 1 drug
Ya i made a lowtech pe setup. Exept i had higher resists then that one by far.
Bugs Gunny
19-11-05, 01:04
LOOOOL, giga that one bit you in the but :-)
Mechanicus
19-11-05, 04:30
We wernt comparing a lowtech pe resist to an executioner pe resists. That would be just retarded.
I want to see you make my setup, an executioner pe setup with 2 drugs and everything self buffed, with more resists and poison resist.
Ya i made a lowtech pe setup. Exept i had higher resists then that one by far.
1. read the posts.. all of them.. in order, then replay again
2. with a tsu rifle or 1 extra drug i can take those resists through the roof
ok the following is dedicated to mechanicus :angel:
pe, caps ALL pistols (both freq + dmg no matter the stats, mods), has a nice rank 67/70 (woooohoooo), has 130ish to ALL resists (wooooohoooooo), 400ish health, runs 200 (speed demon wooohoooo), and still can DB @ 35/min uber 1337 setup
Character Overview for Character
Character Class: Private Eye
Ranking: 45/70
-----------Intelligence-----------
Current: 71 11
Skill: Hacking = 25 25
Skill: Barter = 0 0
Skill: PSI Use = 86 5
Skill: Weapon Lore = 135 33
Skill: Construction = 0 0
Skill: Research = 0 0
Skill: Implant = 20 20
Skill: Willpower = 0 0
-----------Strength-----------
Current: 60 0
Skill: Melee Combat = 0 -16
Skill: Heavy Combat = 0 -9
Skill: Transport = 98 6
Skill: Resist Force = 107 8
-----------Constitution-----------
Current: 73 8
Skill: Athletics = 86 36
Skill: Body Health = 96 13
Skill: Endurance = 0 -69
Skill: Resist Fire = 28 15
Skill: Resist Energy = 56 15
Skill: Resist X-Ray = 85 15
Skill: Resist Poison = 135 135
-----------Dexterity-----------
Current: 113 33
Skill: Pistol Combat = 180 47
Skill: Rifle Combat = 5 5
Skill: HighTech Combat = 79 14
Skill: Vehicle Use = 0 0
Skill: Agility = 104 61
Skill: Repair = 0 0
Skill: Recycle = 0 0
Skill: Remote Control = 0 0
-----------PSI-----------
Current: 36 1
Skill: Passive PSI Use = 75 0
Skill: Agressive PSI Use = 0 0
Skill: Mental Steadiness = 42 -8
Skill: PSI Power = 22 0
Skill: Resist PSI = 0 0
-------Character Inventory-------
Inquisition Helmet 2 (Helmet)
Tangent Close Range BattleSuit V-40 (Vest)
Medium Energy Protection Belt (Belt)
Inquisition Trousers 2 (Trousers)
Medium Inquisition Boots (Boots)
Special Forces CPU (Brain Chip)
MC5 Synaptic Accelerator CPU (Brain Chip)
Experimental Ballistic Weapon Chip 3 (Brain Chip)
BioTech (M.O.V.E.O.N) CPU (Brain Chip)
Pistol CombatEye 3 (Eye)
Experimental Heart 2 (Heart)
Crahn Power Gauntlet (Glove)
Experimental ReflexBooster 4 (Spine)
Biotech AntiGamma Headbone (Headbone)
Biotech AntiGamma Chest Enforcement (Chest)
Biotech AntiGamma Arm Enforcement (Arm)
Biotech AntiGamma Leg Enforcement (Leg)
Biotech AntiGamma Foot Enforcement (Foot)
Shelter (Shelter)
Deflector (Deflector)
Pistol Combat Booster 1 (Combat)
Spy Booster 1 (Support)
Basic Resist Booster 3 (Resist)
Redflash (Drug)
X-Ray Resist Potion (Drug)
Nightspider (Drug)
Whiteflash (Drug)
Green Dragon (Drug)
Hemoserol (Drug)
---------------------------------
pwned :D
i didnt say spies were better for all setups, just for xbow ones
plus i could set up a PE with resists/hp/speed like that with capped exe and 60 poison minimum
You said like my setup. I assumed you ment it.
with a tsu rifle or 1 extra drug i can take those resists through the roof
Ya thats comparing 2 diffrent things completely. Pointless in even mentioning it.
BTW experimental foot with some crahn boots will free up more points for you jini.
dont think crahns work with pa4 terayon
It does, you just need to be on the nightspider for br3 for the boots to activate.
yes i see, i have forgotten about the NS lol, with all these drugs... Anyway all I wanted to show is, that with drugging everybody can push game envelope far beyond its speccs. But this is NOT adding to gameplay. I can only feel pitty for those that take so many drugs, having to fight not only with runners but with drugflash, dieing errections and kneeling lol.
I think it's about time we start with some minimum principles we all gotta agree. Otherwise we wont get anywhere.
In short and for me #1 principle is:
Nondrugged setups >> drugged ones
therefore xbow pe >> than all other setups including spy ones (an exception here is -maybe- the judge but judge is also old news and not a real threat to all monks, while the xbow can really be a real threat to most of them)
6 drugs?! :wtf:
learn to play, that's a shame.
drugs are for those who can't skill their chars well :rolleyes:
Bugs Gunny
19-11-05, 11:00
Jini, i'm afraid you'll be a tad disapointed with the xbow once you get it.
It's good for monks, but as for pes and tanks it's not that awesome. Spies.. you're better off killing them with a firemodded tl92 pulse.
I hope soon there will be more xbow pes so the whining about it being overpowered can stop. If it wasn't for the fact that i can hack belt with the xbow i'd go back to slasher.
6 drugs?! :wtf:
learn to play, that's a shame.
drugs are for those who can't skill their chars well :rolleyes:
Its actualy the exact opposite. Whatever though.
Also i doubt anyone actualy uses 6 drugs regularly. He was just making a point.
Jini, i'm afraid you'll be a tad disapointed with the xbow once you get it.
It's good for monks, but as for pes and tanks it's not that awesome. Spies.. you're better off killing them with a firemodded tl92 pulse.
I hope soon there will be more xbow pes so the whining about it being overpowered can stop. If it wasn't for the fact that i can hack belt with the xbow i'd go back to slasher.
teh xbow is very good for what it is. and its a pistol that has the firepower of an executioner, while at the same time has no dex reqs. that fact alone clearly shows you the way for a cool nice drugless pe setup using a gun around TL113. If I would drug I would also use the slasher myself, since as you know atm Im still using the old trusty TL92 and for a reason. I am very enthousiastic about trying something that will raise my offences some 20% while losing maybe 10% on my defences.
Sorkzmok is correct about using DB, in that when duels last too little theres simply no time casting DB, but that factor already existed. Still the xbow pe is now something a lot more than simply a good duelist. Now with that gun the pe can take a more active role in op wars, and its exactly where i Would like to use my xbow pe. And in OP wars u have plenty of time to use DBs, and be lethal using an xbow. In op wars burst weapons are not efficient as when compared to singleshots
EDIT: I know the value of the tl92, but I also know that i can achieve the following with a xbow: PE for: duels+op wars+NOdrugs.. pure fun he stealths what more can one wants? Also I think the xbow never wears, and you cant lose it right?
ok I will never be able to become a decent filming director but thats something else :lol:
teh xbow is very good for what it is. and its a pistol that has the firepower of an executioner, while at the same time has no dex reqs. that fact alone clearly shows you the way for a cool nice drugless pe setup using a gun around TL113. If I would drug I would also use the slasher myself, since as you know atm Im still using the old trusty TL92 and for a reason. I am very enthousiastic about trying something that will raise my offences some 20% while losing maybe 10% on my defences.
Sorkzmok is correct about using DB, in that when duels last too little theres simply no time casting DB, but that factor already existed. Still the xbow pe is now something a lot more than simply a good duelist. Now with that gun the pe can take a more active role in op wars, and its exactly where i Would like to use my xbow pe. And in OP wars u have plenty of time to use DBs, and be lethal using an xbow. In op wars burst weapons are not efficient as when compared to singleshots
EDIT: I know the value of the tl92, but I also know that i can achieve the following with a xbow: PE for: duels+op wars+NOdrugs.. pure fun he stealths what more can one wants? Also I think the xbow never wears, and you cant lose it right?
ok I will never be able to become a decent filming director but thats something else :lol: Thats the exact reason why I wanted xbow PE, because i hated having to rely on a ppu to keep me alive in op wars
i will have very lil xray resist ^_^ i only want a character for apu's with butplugs.
i have a blessed hyb for anything else in the 1 on 1
an ofcorse a tank for playing properly.
mm is the 100 dex req still on the xbow? i though woc weapons didnt have any requierments apart from woc when they finaly implimented it into the weapons
only req is woc1 but i forget if its DEX woc1 or just any woc1
its dex...
Otherwise you'd see loads of monks and tanks using it...
Mechanicus
19-11-05, 20:32
ok the following is dedicated to mechanicus :angel:
pe, caps ALL pistols (both freq + dmg no matter the stats, mods), has a nice rank 67/70 (woooohoooo), has 130ish to ALL resists (wooooohoooooo), 400ish health, runs 200 (speed demon wooohoooo), and still can DB @ 35/min uber 1337 setup
Character Overview for Character
Character Class: Private Eye
Ranking: 45/70
-----------Intelligence-----------
Current: 71 11
Skill: Hacking = 25 25
Skill: Barter = 0 0
Skill: PSI Use = 86 5
Skill: Weapon Lore = 135 33
Skill: Construction = 0 0
Skill: Research = 0 0
Skill: Implant = 20 20
Skill: Willpower = 0 0
-----------Strength-----------
Current: 60 0
Skill: Melee Combat = 0 -16
Skill: Heavy Combat = 0 -9
Skill: Transport = 98 6
Skill: Resist Force = 107 8
-----------Constitution-----------
Current: 73 8
Skill: Athletics = 86 36
Skill: Body Health = 96 13
Skill: Endurance = 0 -69
Skill: Resist Fire = 28 15
Skill: Resist Energy = 56 15
Skill: Resist X-Ray = 85 15
Skill: Resist Poison = 135 135
-----------Dexterity-----------
Current: 113 33
Skill: Pistol Combat = 180 47
Skill: Rifle Combat = 5 5
Skill: HighTech Combat = 79 14
Skill: Vehicle Use = 0 0
Skill: Agility = 104 61
Skill: Repair = 0 0
Skill: Recycle = 0 0
Skill: Remote Control = 0 0
-----------PSI-----------
Current: 36 1
Skill: Passive PSI Use = 75 0
Skill: Agressive PSI Use = 0 0
Skill: Mental Steadiness = 42 -8
Skill: PSI Power = 22 0
Skill: Resist PSI = 0 0
-------Character Inventory-------
Inquisition Helmet 2 (Helmet)
Tangent Close Range BattleSuit V-40 (Vest)
Medium Energy Protection Belt (Belt)
Inquisition Trousers 2 (Trousers)
Medium Inquisition Boots (Boots)
Special Forces CPU (Brain Chip)
MC5 Synaptic Accelerator CPU (Brain Chip)
Experimental Ballistic Weapon Chip 3 (Brain Chip)
BioTech (M.O.V.E.O.N) CPU (Brain Chip)
Pistol CombatEye 3 (Eye)
Experimental Heart 2 (Heart)
Crahn Power Gauntlet (Glove)
Experimental ReflexBooster 4 (Spine)
Biotech AntiGamma Headbone (Headbone)
Biotech AntiGamma Chest Enforcement (Chest)
Biotech AntiGamma Arm Enforcement (Arm)
Biotech AntiGamma Leg Enforcement (Leg)
Biotech AntiGamma Foot Enforcement (Foot)
Shelter (Shelter)
Deflector (Deflector)
Pistol Combat Booster 1 (Combat)
Spy Booster 1 (Support)
Basic Resist Booster 3 (Resist)
Redflash (Drug)
X-Ray Resist Potion (Drug)
Nightspider (Drug)
Whiteflash (Drug)
Green Dragon (Drug)
Hemoserol (Drug)
---------------------------------
pwned :D
6 drugs rofl, that setup should be twice that good with 6 drugs
Mechanicus
19-11-05, 20:41
oh and drugs are not for noobs who cant skill their chars properly (of course you get these, whos templates are as good as a vets template who could use no drugs) but for skilled players who can handle using drugs and wish to push their templates as far as they can go
Bugs Gunny
19-11-05, 23:13
Ok we did some more tests with a XBOW and a xraymodded EXEC
EXEC XBOW
37/shot(2bullets) 38/shot
freq 180 freq 92
So the same timeframe they do almost the same dammage.
oh and drugs are not for noobs who cant skill their chars properly (of course you get these, whos templates are as good as a vets template who could use no drugs) but for skilled players who can handle using drugs and wish to push their templates as far as they can go in other words, people who aren't good enough to not use them.
u cant say drugs are for noobs, 2 perfect players identical setups. the drugged up person will win
they are usefull to give u the edge. but basing ur setup on needing drugs i will just never understand... ok i mostly play tank so druggin isnt realy a problem for me, i only use drugs when i need a FAST getaway. (like over 100 sumin in agil n athletics aint enough)
druggin is ok if u want the edge but relying on drugs is just not settin up ur character optimaly.. what if u win the fight then along comes another fight n ur total flashed... ur totaly fooked
Bugs Gunny
20-11-05, 02:40
On my xbow pe setup i can go tl92 with br1 and do ok without drugs.
But with drugs i get more runspeed, a br3 and use a xbow .
Yes, drugflash will kill you, especialy the ones where you can't move, nor use quickbelt items.
And Jini is the only nondrugging hightech pe that i can think of that does well, even using a nonrare pistol.
u cant say drugs are for noobs, 2 perfect players identical setups. the drugged up person will win
No. The most skilled player will win, not him that takes the most drugs... Skill(aim + dodging) accounts in neocron for 70%-80% (based on my exp)
This basically means that you can play with numbers, and drugs all the time but in the end its the skill that will birng you the kill. Duels are won because he who killed was succeeding his shots not because he was taking drugs. placing 45 in energy resist or 42 has v little to do.
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 08:16
u cant say drugs are for noobs, 2 perfect players identical setups. the drugged up person will win
the player who takes the drugs will win.
the most skilled will win, or mechanicus :lol:
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 08:30
he made it blatently clear that these 2 hypothetical players are 100% identical, in every way.
now are we gonna sit here while you try and act smart by disputing the 'realism' of the >hypothetical< situation, and look for loopholes in how its worded, or are you gonna accept the facts?
the player who takes the drugs will win.
Asurmen Spec Op
20-11-05, 08:38
Na, first to FRE looses
if we are talking on a purely theoretical (or hypothetical) situation like those you can never meet ingame then yes the drugs will give an edge until drugflash which will kill you.
In neocron however, the above isnt true and you still need skill to kill. If you want to live in the neocron world that is, because if all you want is dreaming go ahead and win al the battles (in yr dreams)
Either way he was talking about "2 perfect players identical setups" :D
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 08:46
i actually dont think ive EVER fre'd in a duel....probally the only situation that i havnt lol
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 08:47
if we are talking on a purely theoretical (or hypothetical) situation like those you can never meet ingame then yes the drugs will give an edge until drugflash which will kill you.
In neocron however, the above isnt true and you still need skill to kill. If you want to live in the neocron world that is, because if all you want is dreaming go ahead and win al the battles (in yr dreams)
Either way he was talking about "2 perfect players identical setups" :D
so what your saying is that in the situation he described, the player who took the drugs would win?
No, come on... It really is not that hard is it? He is discussing a situation ingame. In that situation he who is more skilled will win. As simple as that. If we are talking theoretical, or hypothetical, I wont take part. You can draw your own conclusions, I'm not interested
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 08:55
'perfect' is a state which cannot be improved on...
so what your still saying is that in the situation he described, the player who took the drugs would win?
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 08:56
and if its a realistic situation that hes described, then please name 2 pvpers who you would define as perfect.
There is none. This is the mistake a lot people do. You try comparing "true life" using "absolute" criteria. You simplify situations to make your point valid but doing this, you are already offset.
An example for this is the absolute mahtmatical value of 0. Can you think what it represents and give me an example of it in real life? In other words, do you believe you can find the absolute nothing in nature?
Doh, sorry about all that, but u caught me in a Sunday morning drinking coffee :D
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 09:28
so there are no perfect players in existance, yet the situation presented (which requires 2 perfect players to occur) is a realistic one.... no, sorry, it doesnt work like that
its a hypothetical situation, theres nothing else that it could be... you just proved that for yourself
however.... the situation of 2 'perfect' players may not be recreatable, but it is possible to simulate it using 2 identicly set up players stading perfectly still with their reticles aimed at their opponents heads (bask to walls so they arnt puched), wanna bet who'd win that fight? drugs or no drugs?
No, I wouldnt
things to concider:
guns in neocron miss.
damage types varies.
there is damage involved in 3 different body areas which is different
there is human reflexes involved in this experiment
there is lag
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 09:51
damage types varies. - what you mean by this? if players were usining identical weapons (comes under identical setup) then the damage types would be exactly the same
there is damage involved in 3 different body areas which is different - both players are aiming at the head the entire time, so this point doesnt matter
there is human reflexes involved in this experiment - reflexes are involved in keeping your curser in the same location for the entire time?
there is lag - could run both players off different computers running on the same connection, so lag would be exactly the same
ok, so you see that by agreeing on all these restrictions you in the end create a VERY sterile environment which you will not be able to find in reality. So, in the end for this absolutely sterile environment the player with the better setup will win. Now tell me which 2 players you can name? You see, in the end you really agree with me and you understand why i was right from the begining :)
there is damage involved in 3 different body areas which is different - both players are aiming at the head the entire time, so this point doesnt matter
u cant recreate this experiment using burst guns. they are inaccurate in such a way that u cant shoot head shots even aiming from 1 meter away. In this case guns accuracy will judge the outcome and this is random...
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 10:05
ok, so you see that by agreeing on all these restrictions you in the end create a VERY sterile environment which you will not be able to find in reality. So, in the end for this absolutely sterile environment the player with the better setup will win. Now tell me which 2 players you can name? You see, in the end you really agree with me and you understand why i was right from the begining :)
you said that in his situation, the most skilled player would win, this is incorrect as both players (in the situation) are of equal skill
u cant recreate this experiment using burst guns. they are inaccurate in such a way that u cant shoot head shots even aiming from 1 meter away. In this case guns accuracy will judge the outcome and this is random...
could use laser rifles, do those things EVER miss with a decent lock?
and their non locational, which nullifies the '3 different hit areas' point
you are trying to breakin open doors here. I only told you of a small portion of how things can go wrong in neocron and you agreeded. Now you know why skill is the only winning factor in a duel and why setups play so little role. I suggest you now enjoy the game as well and forget sterile things and questions like: 133 fir protection or 134? :wtf:
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 10:18
agreed with you?
nope, i shot down every one of your weak points
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 10:21
also, why do you not think drugs are worth using?
you can set up a PE with the same (or better) defence as yours, AND use a slasher, with 3-4 drugs
you think if you fought any half decent slasher PE with the same defence as yourself, then template would have barely any affect on the duel?
Asurmen Spec Op
20-11-05, 10:31
Edit...button..
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 10:32
two seperate....
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 10:33
....points
Two seperate paragraphs.
Also it sounds like you 2 are arguing the same main point, unless im totaly messed up. Im very tired. And that is, situations that rely on a variable remaining constant are stupid.
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 10:49
drug pe setups > non drug pe setups
simple as that
It's not the same argument. What we say here is how we, and each one of use preceive things. Drug up if you want to think this is best for you nobody is gonna stop you, but also be prepared to suffer with drugflash. All I am saying is, that there are ways as a pe to not drug and i have chosen these ways. I have set up my personal rules, what I believe is good for me and how I enjoy gameplay and Im following them. The crossbow -when i can use one- will perfect my vision of PE. Some might think that drugging is the way to go. Thats fine, I can live with that and is also good for variation. However 2-3 drugs (overdrugging) sometimes makes me think weak setups or inability to play the game. I could accept one drug setups to enable access to higher weapons, but this is also a bit of cheating as well.
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 11:31
i can drug indefinately, all you do is throw on a sealth in a quiet moment every 10 mins or so then do a quick relog (takes around 15 secs total, never died during relogging so far) there, infinate time using drugs, no drugflash
i can drug indefinately, all you do is throw on a sealth in a quiet moment every 10 mins or so then do a quick relog (takes around 15 secs total, never died during relogging so far) there, infinate time using drugs, no drugflash
this is the definition of the cheat then. What if kk decides suddenly with evo2 to stop this cheat? Also this cheat doesnt allways work in all peoples pcs.
Furtermore, how can you all claim that drug setups are so much better when they are simply cheats?
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 13:11
if its there, why not use it to your advantage?
if its there, why not use it to your advantage?
haha, that's a nice way of putting it.
if u wish to spell check gramma check n punctuation check for me sure we can try again. when i read that back it looks fine to me. but hey im dislexic and cant spell for shit... ill have to find my copy of word. install in and then use it to tell me where im going wrong. but tbh if u cant understand that it aint me with the problem
how much weplore and how much pc goes into a crossbow pe... its not hard to understand
i could read it fine.
Txt tlk
However 2-3 drugs (overdrugging) sometimes makes me think weak setups or inability to play the game. I could accept one drug setups to enable access to higher weapons, but this is also a bit of cheating as well.
Drug flash is a minor, in a op war i pop another drug if i flash, the wierd controls i get sometimes actually helps me dodge attacks because i am moving so randomly.
A drugged setup is superior to most normal setups its fact it allows you more armour more hp, in a spies case access to shelter, it allows you to reach another level.
Setups are very important, why someone very skilled could dance and kill a perfect setup char why theres is poor soon as they meet a equally skilled player with a good setup they will never beat him unless there setup is similiar.
133, 134 decision in fire is important, every point of hp or resist is vital and has to be considered when spent for all situtations.... pe's should take pride in such decisions as it's what seperates them from the rest
No drug setup is a cheat people who log in log out are exploiting a game flaw, i can pvp fine without reloggin on drug flash.
A pe can play undrugged if he wants i did as a tsu pe ages ago but for the most part a drugged pe is going to be a lot better in most ways and people generally dont last the length of a drug.
I was not reffering to spies. I have already said that as far as spies goes, they need to lower shelter psi reqs so the spy will be able to barely use it w/o drugs. If you think of it spies are the only ones of the 3 that NEED drugs to be able to duel, or they snap like a leaf.
Mechanicus
20-11-05, 17:30
yea but 99% of competitive pes drug, simply because its better, look at the best hightech pes of all time (because there was a time where pes didnt need to drug, as lowtech was actually good), all drugged to the teeth
Which pes?? all i know are monks, tanks or hybrids lol. And yes most in fetish are not drugged, rebel is not,retron is not ... i am not...
Which pes?? all i know are monks, tanks or hybrids lol. And yes most in fetish are not drugged, rebel is not,retron is not ... i am not...
Actually I tried a 2 drug setup on penny lane, played her for a few hours and
havent touched her since. I tried drugging back in nc1 aswell but it just isnt
my thing.
Any high tech pe.
anyone who plans to use something high tech has to drug... most low techs can do it easy... especially if they are using the Tsunami epic setup which i hear most do now....
bring back tb and you'll see some very hard setups...Ravager pe anyone ;)
Exe/Slasher pe setups are solid and they all drug, best drugging pe i remember was Fang when he used to use ROLH didnt see many people touch him and havent seen many to this day.
You say druggin on a pe is for the weak but i say its more for those who want to push there char to the limits, Low Tech non drug setups dont even graze the limit there the normal limit of a pe.... not untill pain easer and libby get a proper bit of loving.
I don't think it's a matter of pushing your char to the limit or holding it back etc,
it's more of a "can I be arsed drugging all the time?", for most the answer is no.
If you only use 10 min drugs you can run around for 30 mins without a drugflash
but I found that too much of a hassle aswell.
when I tried drugging me too, I have found I had pushed my patience to the limit... and i never tried that again. On the other hand, after taking 2-3 antipara drugs im now getting huge drugflash, which again is intollerable...
Bugs Gunny
20-11-05, 21:52
try taking 3 drugs for raiding , then pop 3 damageblockers and 2 antiparas.
Then you'll know why KK should just completely remove drugflash and make antidrugs stackable and a lot cheaper.
kk should remove drugflash from anti paras entirely yes, make them cheap yes, but if they also make them stackable, then she may as well erase all kinds of parashocks. We need to remember that casting HP needs a lot of mana as well it doesnt come for free. It used to but not any more.
In a raid you can easily program the window of attack bugs and manage your drugs efficiently praying they wont timeout in the middle of a duel. However the same is not possible to a long op war. Those drugged setups maybe good for testing but arent good for permanent play. And dont tell me that you are under 3 drugs with your pe for more than very limited and specific time slices...
the problem with drugs are that they give useful skills, but they dont take away anything useful
mmm..yes they do take away something useful: your sight
it aint easy killing warbots when you cant see anything and cant cast shelter :(
mmm..yes they do take away something useful: your sight
it aint easy killing warbots when you cant see anything and cant cast shelter :(
If that was true it would be ok, but the drugs don't take away anything useful,
the drugflash is only a sideeffect after the drug wears off, wich btw is very
easy to get around and you get once every 30 mins, while under those 30 mins
you enjoy all of the benefits.
Drugs should give something useful and take away something useful skill wise.
mmm..yes they do take away something useful: your sight
it aint easy killing warbots when you cant see anything and cant cast shelter :( the drugflash is the side effect for being allowed to alter your skills, but there should also be aworse side effect in terms of taking away some useful skills
Bugs Gunny
21-11-05, 01:12
And dont tell me that you are under 3 drugs with your pe for more than very limited and specific time slices...
How about from the minute i log on untill the minute i log off, except in safezone when chatting etc.
3 drugs all the time, even when i'm running in the wastes.
no kk should relese a Super Anti Para rare mob drop and a Super Anti Damage rare mob drop about the same as tech parts from warbies on a special mob and these give a 2 min protect from para and db and so on
db gives a drugflash when it runs and the anti para give no flash atal (reason being withough damage boost pe's are slightly under powered to other classes)
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