View Full Version : ppu balance idea
Mechanicus
17-11-05, 14:49
while i dont think ppus are a serious problem, i do realise with some tweaking group pvp could be enhanced, i believe ppu hybrids are seriously out of balance and this would fix them also
1. lower holy spells to give the same defence as the blessed line, make blessed an intermediate of the two, this would make ppus a LOT more killable while still being the toughest characters in the game, a good pvper would kill a bad ppu, but a good ppu would stay alive vs a bad pvper, this would also nerf blessed hybrids down to where they belong, around the same defence/damage of a lowtech pe, the reasonably balanced apu hybrids would remain the same
2. when a ppu dies, all shelters/deflectors (not primes) that that ppu had cast immediately begin to wear off
ppus remain valuble and fun to play team members while the imbalance of teams with no ppus being too easily dominated by teams with ppus is lessened, both teams have to employ more strategy (kill the ppu early/keep the ppu alive) and its a much fairer fight
.hack//sign
17-11-05, 14:53
i don't know about #1 but i think #2 is the fairest ppu nerf ive heard yet?wouldnt you guys agree :D
Mechanicus
17-11-05, 14:56
i think without 1 2 wouldnt have much effect though, its literally impossible to kill a good ppu without either 3+ apus (tanks/pes/spys(other than droners) are almost worthless for ppu killing, just get in the way and dont dish out damage fast enough) or an apu/ppu team to noob buff after the antibuff
Dribble Joy
17-11-05, 15:10
The key is heals.
I say reduce all heals down to the same rate at the tl3, with their times extended to give the same overall hp. PPUs should amplify a fighter's abilities, the problem being that the heals just amplify it way too much.
If we take heals out of the equation entirely, and keep DB, lvl 3 buffs and shields as the PPU abilities, we can retain their use without nerfing them so much that they are useless.
Clearly other tweaks would be needed, like a balancing of foreign shields (so they affect all classes equally), the weapon skills (so a lvl 3 combat buff is actually of use) and a consideration of whether PEs should have DB.
As I have said on numerous occations, the class you play should be the one you want and not the one required to give the team the best advantage.
1. lower holy spells to give the same defence as the blessed line, make blessed an intermediate of the two, this would make ppus a LOT more killable while still being the toughest characters in the game, a good pvper would kill a bad ppu, but a good ppu would stay alive vs a bad pvper, this would also nerf blessed hybrids down to where they belong, around the same defence/damage of a lowtech pe, the reasonably balanced apu hybrids would remain the same
By lowering holy spells to that of blessed what would be the point in speccing for holy? So basically your saying remove Holy spells :confused:
In that case then we would have a shitload more blessed hybrids! O_o
Or do you mean lower holy to blessed
Blessed to between low spells and blessed
and maintain low spells?
If thats the case then you got to alter all the damage in game as no one would survive MC5 or some mobs in game.
I think the role of a medic/healer/PPU is needed in game however as Dribble has pointed out i think the heal is the problem.
You can knock a tank down to low health even with Holy Def/Shelt on but the minute a Holy heal gets slapped on it outheals your damage and then some! before you know it tanks back on full health and your back to square one( Rinse and repeat)
While your at it sort the Para issue :rolleyes:
gotta love these PPU threads!
Vae Victis
17-11-05, 16:05
plz, stick with nerf/remove para :D
love the #2 though.
the idea being ppu is just the "god like" the real problem is ppu'in other persons, that "must" change somehow, maby less power for second handet buffs/heals
Amen to what DJ says. It's the heals. It's just stupid that clipping around a corner and not getting hit for just some seconds brings someone back to (almost) full health.
And remove para, but that's obvious. :)
The key is heals.
I say reduce all heals down to the same rate at the tl3, with their times extended to give the same overall hp. PPUs should amplify a fighter's abilities, the problem being that the heals just amplify it way too much.
If we take heals out of the equation entirely, and keep DB, lvl 3 buffs and shields as the PPU abilities, we can retain their use without nerfing them so much that they are useless.
Clearly other tweaks would be needed, like a balancing of foreign shields (so they affect all classes equally), the weapon skills (so a lvl 3 combat buff is actually of use) and a consideration of whether PEs should have DB.
As I have said on numerous occations, the class you play should be the one you want and not the one required to give the team the best advantage.
Totally agree, but should you nerf HH as much, then you render the whole class useless. Entirely useless. The ppu problem is a problem because what most is needed is that damn HH. Should you nerf it, then what remains is the holy para, which is also another problem. I particularly agree on your last sentence bt this also mean get rid of ppus in general. This conflict, because it really is a conflict I think has lasted long enough and Its about time kk do something.
I would say begin with parashocks. ALL parashocks and then we can move form there
:p
Heavyporker
17-11-05, 18:31
I have to say, #2 sounds pretty damn fair!
Implement that, by all means.
And, more and more I'm agreeing with DJ's heal-length over heal-power idea...
Its the holy heal that fucks everything up, yes a holy shelter reduces the damage alot, but when a PPU's dead, generally the rest of his team dies fast as they cant get heals.
no need tor educe shelters effect imo, just reduce the heals, blessed heal is fast anyway, make holy as blessed currently is (16 or 24 a tick? cant remember) and put blessed down between the 2
also this will reduce the defence of blessed hybrids ;)
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 00:54
By lowering holy spells to that of blessed what would be the point in speccing for holy? So basically your saying remove Holy spells :confused:
In that case then we would have a shitload more blessed hybrids! O_o
Or do you mean lower holy to blessed
Blessed to between low spells and blessed
and maintain low spells?
If thats the case then you got to alter all the damage in game as no one would survive MC5 or some mobs in game.
I think the role of a medic/healer/PPU is needed in game however as Dribble has pointed out i think the heal is the problem.
You can knock a tank down to low health even with Holy Def/Shelt on but the minute a Holy heal gets slapped on it outheals your damage and then some! before you know it tanks back on full health and your back to square one( Rinse and repeat)
While your at it sort the Para issue :rolleyes:
gotta love these PPU threads!
yeah blessed would have to be lowered too, IF you har READ my post, you would have realised that...:rolleyes:
mc5 damage would have to be lowered yeah, thats like a 5 minute fix
all that needs changing for para is making antiparas the same cost/uses as psibooster 3s, theres nothing wrong with the spell
ppus defence needs to be lowered to forign shield level for selfcasts, at minimum
RogerRamjet
18-11-05, 01:02
Remove crahn epic!
Shenyu Reza
18-11-05, 01:06
Maybe a looong time to cast holy heal ?
the #2 is a good idea ^^
why not just make it double the psi consumption for forien casts
<- supports DJ heal idea.
I say reduce all heals down to the same rate at the tl3, with their times extended to give the same overall hp. PPUs should amplify a fighter's abilities, the problem being that the heals just amplify it way too much.
There should be a vote for DJ's idea. I want that one. Only problem i have with it is that ppu's will get slaughtered in any kind of real fighting. In a fight of 5 vs 5 where all you're enemies can coordinate on a single target who cant stealth, there is no protecting him. Getting a ppu to hide in a safezone or ug every time is just not fun.
Like im all for reducing a ppu's defence, but if its goinna be taken down to the notch you're suggesting, some offence would be needed.
Lifewaster
18-11-05, 09:59
There should be a vote for DJ's idea. I want that one. Only problem i have with it is that ppu's will get slaughtered in any kind of real fighting. In a fight of 5 vs 5 where all you're enemies can coordinate on a single target who cant stealth, there is no protecting him. Getting a ppu to hide in a safezone or ug every time is just not fun.
Like im all for reducing a ppu's defence, but if its goinna be taken down to the notch you're suggesting, some offence would be needed.
Well a compromise there would be to put 50% malus on foreign cast heals.
around the same defence/damage of a lowtech pe
oh, didnt know that lib = psi attack 2 :p ...
oh, didnt know that lib = psi attack 2 :p ...
Psi attack 2 outdamages my explosive earp. o_O
i know, but earp =| lib!!! btw, u'r ig?
At uni atm, getting a lesson in autocad. :lol:
Sooooo boring...
yeah blessed would have to be lowered too, IF you har READ my post, you would have realised that...:rolleyes:
mc5 damage would have to be lowered yeah, thats like a 5 minute fix
all that needs changing for para is making antiparas the same cost/uses as psibooster 3s, theres nothing wrong with the spell
ppus defence needs to be lowered to forign shield level for selfcasts, at minimum
OMG o_O I did read your 1st post, several times but due to the poor sentence construction I failed to grasp your point, so asked for clarification :rolleyes:
As for the five minute fix on Damage are you kidding? Not only would you have to lower the damage on MC5 mobs but most high end mobs then also the damage on player weapons themselves and iirc Dirus said this was no easy task a while back.
Theres nothing wrong with Para? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 13:03
1. who really puts 100% effort into grammar on thew internet?
if you cant understand what i wrote mocks on you
2. only mc5 needs to be changed reallym ive done 99% of the mobs in this game with blessed hyb + apu/tank, too easy really
3. isnt the ENTIRE POINT of this change to make players with ppu buffs take more damage? kinda defeats the point to then lower weapon damage so it does the level it did pre change :rolleyes:
4. there would be nothing wrong with it if antiparas works how i described, stop trying to start arguments.
Start arguments? WTF are you on about?? :confused:
I'm expressing my opinion on a topic; it differs from yours, so you get all defensive? Grow up and be open to debate.
Seriously your mind is closed, you have made your decision so everyone has to agree with you? *Sigh*
Ok let’s deal with this:-
1. who really puts 100% effort into grammar on thew internet?
People who wish to be understood and maybe the odd person who can actually write English or use a keyboard with a degree of skill.
2. only mc5 needs to be changed reallym ive done 99% of the mobs in this game with blessed hyb + apu/tank, too easy really
So you have never been to DOY tunnels then?
3. isnt the ENTIRE POINT of this change to make players with ppu buffs take more damage? kinda defeats the point to then lower weapon damage so it does the level it did pre change
No the ENTIRE point is not to make players receive more damage but for example - If we talk about the heal issue, it has fuck all to do with the damage, it has to do with the ability to negate that damage at any level.
If you lower all the buffs, heals etc then some weapons which are defended against at the moment through the use of Shelter for example would be way overpowered. HL??
Let’s take this comment
ppus defence needs to be lowered to forign shield level for selfcasts, at minimum
Why? It’s not the PPU that’s the problem; it’s the buffs he can give to his team that’s the problem. The PPU gives a Damage dealer to much defensive additions with the ability to heal in an instant!
And as for -
4. there would be nothing wrong with it if antiparas works how I described,
what this?
all that needs changing for para is making antiparas the same cost/uses as psibooster 3s, theres nothing wrong with the spell
WTF? How does that help? Ask any reasonable player and they will tell you they fucking hate PARA it destroys combat and PvP. The mana efficiency is not the bloody issue.
Got a monk by any chance?
I have a PPU and hell I’d give up Para any day for the improved combat experience!
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 14:43
People who wish to be understood and maybe the odd person who can actually write English or use a keyboard with a degree of skill. - people who have too much time on their hands
So you have never been to DOY tunnels then? - their too hard because of a bugged mob, would be doable if mob wasnt bugged (maybe tone em and ceres caves down though)
No the ENTIRE point is not to make players receive more damage but for example - If we talk about the heal issue, it has fuck all to do with the damage, it has to do with the ability to negate that damage at any level. - heal and sd are both aspects in this, apus with holy sd on do way more damage than they should for the damage they take and tank heals almost outheal any damage a fullbuffed tank takes from any non apu character
If you lower all the buffs, heals etc then some weapons which are defended against at the moment through the use of Shelter for example would be way overpowered. HL?? - but apus would die alot faster, so it wouldnt really be overpowered at all would it?
Let’s take this comment
Why? It’s not the PPU that’s the problem; it’s the buffs he can give to his team that’s the problem. The PPU gives a Damage dealer to much defensive additions with the ability to heal in an instant! - your the one whos been whining on about 'waah waah only way to fight ppus is with more monks', well the only way to kill a good ppu with their current defence is multiple other monks, a well setup ppu will more or less outheal any non apu weapon with even a newb heal, pick an oppinion and run with it
And as for -
what this?
WTF? How does that help? Ask any reasonable player and they will tell you they fucking hate PARA it destroys combat and PvP. The mana efficiency is not the bloody issue. - dumbass, i didnt say 1 thing about the mana use, do you even use? para is EASY to remove, any decent pvper has ZERO problems fighting againt para, the problem is the cost of the drugs, and the minor annoyance of having to constantly reload them
Got a monk by any chance? - yup, blessed hybrid and yet here i am calling for blessed hybrids/ppus to be nerfed??
I have a PPU and hell I’d give up Para any day for the improved combat experience! - only diff for any decent pvper is it would cost less
Dribble Joy
18-11-05, 16:11
There should be a vote for DJ's idea. I want that one. Only problem i have with it is that ppu's will get slaughtered in any kind of real fighting. In a fight of 5 vs 5 where all you're enemies can coordinate on a single target who cant stealth, there is no protecting him. Getting a ppu to hide in a safezone or ug every time is just not fun.
Like im all for reducing a ppu's defence, but if its goinna be taken down to the notch you're suggesting, some offence would be needed.
A self cast holy S/D and a tl3 heal brings about a hefty personal defence, especially with monk armour.
I think we need to question our obsession with PPUs being indestructable, even if we want them as they are, you could simply keep holy heal's selfcast effects as they are now.
If class is irrelevant to team performance, then a PPU dying won't matter, it would be just like a PE, Spy, apu or tank.
RogerRamjet
18-11-05, 16:59
PPUs arent as indestructable as they were in NC1.
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 17:05
any half decent one still is though
Asurmen Spec Op
18-11-05, 17:08
I like # 2
your the one whos been whining on about 'waah waah only way to fight ppus is with more monks', well the only way to kill a good ppu with their current defence is multiple other monks, a well setup ppu will more or less outheal any non apu weapon with even a newb heal, pick an oppinion and run with it
What the fuck are you on about? Where in this thread have i expressed this opinion? NOWHERE!
READ MY POST YOU NIB!
And again just for clarity! I have my opinion which differs from yours, so you resort to petty banter :lol:
Take a lot more to piss me off chump
Mechanicus
18-11-05, 17:50
no it wont, i didnt set out to piss you off and evidently i did
no it wont, i didnt set out to piss you off and evidently i didIt's pretty hard not to get pissed off by you no matter if you try to or not. :D
RogerRamjet
19-11-05, 07:18
roflflfoflffolfoflflflflflflflf
what about only having a certain amount of buffs on the ppu at once? so you have to choose wisely when pvping. just like everyone else choosing what type of resistances to make. i know ppus have con too but i heard its pretty shocking? i dunno but maybe it will make the class a little more dynamic so a noob cant press the heal button and go take a piss or something ?
like i said. i dont have any what im talking about. im not sure i agree with myself?
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