View Full Version : Policy on lost items due to NC2's flawed game design?
Hi all!
My situation goes something like this (that apparently plenty of other players have had the unfortunate experience of it happening to them):
After getting my first character here on neocron, a tank, to level 60 I started to lose interest in the class so I decided to start a new "main" character. I decided to create a P.E. Pistoleer which I've died to frequently in pvp. After creating the character I decided to transfer all my items to the new character as I figure it would become my main character. I registered my appartment (which i use as a storage like my gogo) with the new pistoleer, and all my vehicles.
After getting to about skill level 10 I changed my mind and decided to switch to a new character, a PE droner (in order to leve up faster I was told). The only problem was that I wanted to use the same name as I created on my PE Pistoleer. In order to do that I transfered all the items i had previously transfered to my PE, back to my former main character the tank. Once all the items were transfered back to my main character (including all keys, etc), I then deleted my level 10 PE Pistoleer. This is where everything soon went downhill as I began to realize I had just lost everything in owned essentialy (everything that was in my appartment, including my vehicle keys, epic quest, as well as my trophies, and my expensive furniture)
As a new player I had absolutely NO idea that if you transfered your keys (appartment and vehicles) to another character but did not register them and the former owner of those keys was deleted, the keys would not work. Note that I still have the keys, but they do absolutely nothing now.
I'm completely bummed, as if I was having a hard enough time before trying to catch up to the rich old timers in NC, this was just a slap in the face.
I put in a ticket using the ingame help system, but it was a complete waiste of time. First of all, you can only put a SMALL paragraph in their before it stops you from typing. Which hardly let me explain my situation at all. Ended up being completely vague. When I did get a response from a "GM" he did absolutely nothing and told me i was S.O.L. Gee, thanks Osydeus! (I think that was the GM's name) You're working hard to keep the NC playerbase paying that monthly fee! =/
If there's any possibility of getting my items back please let me know how to go about contacting the right people or escelating my situation. I'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you.
sorry to hear it, ive losted many things to nc's little quirks, cant blame the game for this though...you have to register to a a different character or the stuff belong to the deleted char will be lost forever, far as i know its always been like this
if u have the app key still surely you or a gm can enter it ?
1. Loss of in-game items
The loss of items will not normally be compensated. The sole exception will be when Reakktor Media GmbH or the Neocron Support Team have provided prior notification of issues affecting the game servers, in which case backups of characters may be restored. Direct compensation of items or in-game currency is not permitted.
So basically no. I feel sorry for you, but two comments - one, don't think of any char as a "main" - you will likley be using them all, for vareity and for differnet purpouses. The othre is, altough you were sadly unaware, in this case the item loss was your fault - theres not even any hope of item replacements if it was completely the games fault.
[edit]@ Shia - nope - appartment zones belonging to character who are deleted gets removed.
S.O.L?
Ever since Neocron 1, if you didn't register all the keys for apartments or vehicles before deleting a character, you would loose the contents of the apartments, and the vehicle keys would be no longer usable.
IIRC there is a warning when you delete a character, it does warn that all registered keys and apartments will also be deleted.
If you need to take it further, email helpdesk@neocron.com but I doubt they will be able to do any more than what the GM told you.
MuggleMind
09-11-05, 17:54
I hate to say it but that's why it has a warning that all apartments and vehicles registered to that character will be deleted (don't remember the exact wording) when you delete the character.
It doesn't help your situation now admittedly. I have lost items too this way, but put it down to a mammoth session playing, and then hating the character I had created (note: do not make "delete this character" decisions when tired!).
Darn it, Brammers... just because I took forever to type my reply ya had ta beat me to it :p
S.O.L?
Ever since Neocron 1, if you didn't register all the keys for apartments or vehicles before deleting a character, you would loose the contents of the apartments, and the vehicle keys would be no longer usable.
IIRC there is a warning when you delete a character, it does warn that all registered keys and apartments will also be deleted.
If you need to take it further, email helpdesk@neocron.com but I doubt they will be able to do any more than what the GM told you.
Yes I saw that warning, though I automaticaly assumed it was warning me of the appartment key if it was on the character, as well as any items still left on the character. I also think most new players would read it like I did. There's different ways to interpret that. In any case, I think it's complete bullshit and it sure doesn't give me more reason to stick around when the newer games start releasing this december or into the early part of next year.
ALSO: How in the hell am I supposed to redo the NEXT epic quest again on my tank if I've already done it but now lost my Vehicle due to this. And will I even at the least get a replacement appartment key? I have proof of the appartment as it is in my goddam inventory.
I've lost items in game and NEVER had them replaced.
I sympathise with your situation but i don't hold out much hope for you tbh.
Bad luck. But i would just get over it and get me new stuff. Epics can be redone, getting new guns and shit isn't that hard if you made at elast some friends over the time.
I've lost loads of stuff to bugs and my own retardedness, i got used to it. :lol:
And to be honest, complaining on the forums trying to explain isn't the smartest way because if the GM says so, it's teh law. :)
Though i tried it myself on several occasions....
Bad luck. But i would just get over it and get me new stuff. Epics can be redone, getting new guns and shit isn't that hard if you made at elast some friends over the time.
I've lost loads of stuff to bugs and my own retardedness, i got used to it. :lol:
And to be honest, complaining on the forums trying to explain isn't the smartest way because if the GM says so, it's teh law. :)
Though i tried it myself on several occasions....
Yeah well I think it's safe to say that their so-called policy doesn't help keep or increase their lacking player population?
Yeah well I think it's safe to say that their so-called policy doesn't help keep or increase their lacking player population?
Hence they developed Item tracking so they could then replace stuff because they could seperate the genuine cases from the blaggers out there :p
However it didn't work, does work but they don't use it, or it's a conspiracy thoery :rolleyes: so we got no comeback.
Yeah well I think it's safe to say that their so-called policy doesn't help keep or increase their lacking player population?
What are other MMORPG's policies on lost items in cases like this? I wouldn't be suprised if they are simular.
Before KK had this policy, people was abusing the system by removing their Rare/MC5 implants and Rare guns, then deleting their characters, and then putting in tickets saying "OhNoz my character has gone!".
I can think of people who have lost entire BP libraries or rares apartments. It took a while to rebuild them. Ask your clanmates for some help, I'm sure they will help you out a bit, and it won't be long before you can replace your lost items.
P.S. You haven't told me what S.O.L means yet.
I guess I'm just blown away by their lack of care or support in regards to lost or missing items due to a game design which in some respects is complete junk. Hell, I can see if this game had such a high player population that losing a few players here and their wouldn't effect their profitt margin... but c'mon now. I'm not saying i'll quit over this, but it is very tempting now. Quite dissapointed thus far as I just started playing about a month ago.
P.S. You haven't told me what S.O.L means yet.
Shit out of luck.
Think of it this way, if you lend your door key to someone, it's doesn't mean they now own your house. There's a procedure you have to go through to transfer the ownership of that house to someone else and in our case it means registering the key.
After creating the character I decided to transfer all my items to the new character as I figure it would become my main character. I registered my appartment (which i use as a storage like my gogo) with the new pistoleer, and all my vehicles.
Maybe I'm misreading your first post but it looks like you'd already done correctly the first time, so the second was surely just a mistake.
N
Maybe I'm misreading your first post but it looks like you'd already done correctly the first time, so the second was surely just a mistake.
N
I was saying that i registered the appartment to the character that I later deleted.
Think of it this way, if you lend your door key to someone, it's doesn't mean they now own your house. There's a procedure you have to go through to transfer the ownership of that house to someone else and in our case it means registering the key.
Yes, very true. But when i right click "use/activate" on the key and it does absoultely nothing, then your statement doesn't hold true.
Other mmorpgs have differing policies on this for example
WOW has the policy of 1 per account retrievable item ie lose something and you can get it back but not if you delete the character (but once per account so claim back something crap and lose something good later and your screwed).
Eve had a policy of taking it by personal situation,
i lost some items due to stupidity didnt get them back, then i lost a ship due to stupidity and lag and i got the cash for it (but not equipment) back, agaion deleting a character would not get you anything back.
point is neocrons policy is take the easy option and deny everyone any items back its good for keeping the scamers down but leads to frustration to the (small, Tiny, Itsy bitsy) playerbase we have, however deleting a character is something to be verry carefull with.
i could see the argument for alowing you to retrive your character and i know it has been done before but i doubt they will.
lesson learned i hope and if you managed to make friends along the way ask them for help you never know they may not give you alot but the contributions from them all might get you back on your feet.
jj dynomite
09-11-05, 23:01
Hey...the same happened to me in NC 1 with my rares/epics apartment...lost a lot of cool and extremely rare stuff (Dildo of Maven anybody?)
So...sympathy...but don't waste your breath...once it's gone, it's gone.
Just rebuild and move on...
Sorry to hear this ... and although I agree your situation is all but pleasent - there is no reason to flame the GMs here.
The warning clearly states "REGISTERED" ..and registered is not the same as putting the key in a box, throwing it on the floor or handing it to someone else. Apps and Vehicles are linked to the char, not to the key ...the key is just an interface for the object... fair enough, this can be considered a gamedesign flaw ... but I guess if it was all that easy to change it they wouldn't have gone for a warning message instead.
Roll a new APU-Hybrid, keep the LE in and start counting the cash as you see the millions ticking thru'... you'll be quite wealthy in short time again. Imagine this had happened in 2-3 months time...thats the only positive thing about it. It doesnt take long to get to where you were before.. especially now that you are more familiar with the game.
Does this picture look familiar?
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/5821/delete7xz.th.jpg (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=delete7xz.jpg)
It's a warning.
A warning that should be heeded. Continue at your own risk.
Once you clicked YES, the apartment and its contents are wiped off the face of the planet, like Niddy correctly said. You may have salvaged the doorkey, but the house and contents are no more. Registration after that point is not possible.
I feel sorry for you, but it's no use slagging off the game mechanics, support policies or the GM who was trying to explain the situation to you. It was your mistake and yours alone. How could the GM replace what has been deleted? How would he even know what you had in there? It's like formatting your hard drive, then expecting the guy at the computer store to get all your files back, just as you had them.
If KK had sneakily took away all your stuff without consulting you then laughed in your face, you would have a right to be upset. As it stands, a clear warning WAS given - in big red letters - which you failed to heed.
Note for the future: this applies to vehicles as well. You can hand over the keys, but the car will have long gone into the crusher.
How could the GM replace what has been deleted? How would he even know what you had in there? It's like formatting your hard drive, then expecting the guy at the computer store to get all your files back, just as you had them.
Well for starters he could take a look at my non-functional appartment key and give me a plain empty working key in exchange for the dead key. That would be the least he could do.....
Well for starters he could take a look at my non-functional appartment key and give me a plain empty working key in exchange for the dead key. That would be the least he could do.....
It's physically possible, but why should he?
If i drive my vehicle and get it blown up through my own negligence or choice, is it right that a GM owes me another?
So if i choose to delete my apartment after a warning of what would happen, is it right that a GM owes me another?
I deleted a clan once as it was something i had never done before. I didn't know at the time whether the key could be reused. I was given a warning about deleting the clan (the fate of the key still unknown at this point) and continued anyway mainly out of curiosity. The clan got deleted and the key became unusable. I learned from that moment that you only get ONE clan per key. You can rename the clan, but delete it and you kiss the key goodbye. No GM owed me for what i chose to do at my own risk, so i didn't even ask.
Even though there are rules and for good reason, to cover 90% of the cases it sill remains a small 10% that does mistakes. In all my appeaance ingame I have helped I dunno how many people. Some of them might just being lame, pretending they needed help and others truly needed. It just goes as in RL. There cant be a fullproof system that can separate the good from the bad, so and beacuase of the small proportion of the later society has choosed to help them all and punish those that are proven guilty. Of course things in neocron can hardly represent complexities of RL, therefore -and if I was kk which I am not- I would choose to help them compensating for at least in a way. Besides its not that easy for all to rebuild everything from scratch as it might be for me or any vet. In the end its no big deal...
All this said .....
1) We lost an entire clan as the leader let his sister play a char, so she randomly chose the leaders char and deleted him, no more clan ....
Now if item tracking was in place, then KK could possible look into the issue and be more pro-active in support than a blanket - NO WILL WILL NOT HELP YOU FOR MAKING A MISTAKE - attitude. People make mistakes all the time, I can think of a time about 14 months ago that KK made a mistake resulting in an OH SHIT Expression.
Rule for KK - kk make mistakes and you get screwed
Rule for us - you make a mistake and get screwed.
Item traking would be a good tool to identify if you really lost your items, or just transfered them to take advantage. It would have solved this issue.
As for the policy, I remeber back in the old days when the policy did not exist.
Player A - I lost my CS
KK - ok Here have anew one
Player B - I lOst my CS and healing Light
KK - hmmm ok - here have a new one
Player X + 500 - We lost our
KK - Shut up someone is telling lies, we will compansate with 100k
Even this 100k got dropped
After all this, I remeber in NC2 where I died anmy PA in my belt. It was on the hill and I could not get it. I put a ticket in, and a GM came about. He opened and could see my item but could not re-trieve it from belt, he tried many times.
He spawned me a new PA as he could prove the loss and then deleted the old belt..
Any ETA for Item Tracking ?
You're conveniently neglecting to mention that somewhere between player B and player X + 500 there were many confirmed cases of people found to be cheating the system. That's why the system was changed. We didn't intentionally set out to be difficult and as you can see, history shows that we didn't set out that way.
N
/edit - no , I don't currently have a date for item tracking.
You're conveniently neglecting to mention that somewhere between player B and player X + 500 there were many confirmed cases of people found to be cheating the system. That's why the system was changed...
If they were confirmed, just take back whatever you gave them and give them
a temp ban and it should be all good, right? To much work? Why not make it
easier for yourselves ;) *hint hint*
---
The thing I hate the most is the bug when you die and your inv gets messed up
and you throw away what you think is a stam booster only to find out it was your
weap. or whatever, and even though that's a game bug and not human error there
is still no way to prove that what happend was not your fault and your not trying
to cheat KK.
That's the main reason, I atleast, wanted item-tracking in the first place, not
because I might do something silly and regret it, but because of game bugs that
you have no control over.
You're conveniently neglecting to mention that somewhere between player B and player X + 500 there were many confirmed cases of people found to be cheating the system. That's why the system was changed. We didn't intentionally set out to be difficult and as you can see, history shows that we didn't set out that way.
N
/edit - no , I don't currently have a date for item tracking.
Nid thats my point, yes KK have done this to protect the honest people from that world Nid Said that I cannot repeat as it does not exist but look for the bold quote
Joke aside, yes KK did the right thing, they had a fair system, it got abused, and as a result we all pay for the actions of the spoilt few. its like that in all walks of life.
Item Tracking - is the solution behind the issue
Nid suggesting people cheat in game = 2 day forum ban ?
You're conveniently neglecting to mention that somewhere between player B and player X + 500 there were many confirmed cases of people found to be cheating the system. That's why the system was changed. We didn't intentionally set out to be difficult and as you can see, history shows that we didn't set out that way.
N
/edit - no , I don't currently have a date for item tracking.
I honestly don't understand it.. they have the chest to stand up and enforce their wacky policy... where in the meantime they could possibly be helping me replace an "uncheated" broken/unusable appartment key? Priorities I can see are high on their list. Evo 2.1 better be something truely amazing, or you won't be seeing a further month from me.
/edit - no , I don't currently have a date for item tracking.
Interesting reading http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?p=1810866#post1810866 from 17 May 2005 :confused:
@ Nidhogg - Could at least a Mod, Developer or *someone* post a sticky, saying What item tracking is, what KK want it to do, and what are the current issues to why it's not in yet. Most importanly, an ETA.
Item tracking was promised to for NC2 release, (September 2004) delayed and promised for the International release (May 2005?)...so where is it?
Item Tracking was implemented or near implemented. It either broke something (the high-slot spelll nerf? the horrible lag?) Or would do. As such, the project was as far as I can tell, essentiallt abandoned and everyone at KK ordered to shut up about it so presumably we believe it never existed. Thankfully, there seems to be a lot less problems with vanishing items these days and even if item tracking WAS in, the thread-starter would be told "sorry, it was your own fault".
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