View Full Version : [CBT]An Alternative Constructive Neptune Thread
Scanner Darkly
02-11-05, 18:21
What I propose: (read this kids)
:angel: Change server label from PVP to extreme. (or similar)
:angel: Remove LE (hay guize this servar si not for ppussies!!) Yes I did a U-turn on this one.
:angel: Remove all PPU spells above blessed/level 2 buffs
:angel: Belt drops in all zones, looting rights, mobs style after 30 seconds anyone can open; (possibly) warzones need hack (or not).
:angel: Increase tech drop to 3-5x of norm.
:angel: MC5 techs drop from all 120/120 mobs but you will not loot an MC5 tech from EVERY mob. Y-rep Commanders are said to drop more MC5 techs than other 120s, but they still need hack.
:angel: Increase money from mobs 3x.
:angel: (Re-)Introduce Construction club apartments - one in DoY City centre, one in MB, one in TH, one in Neocron Plaza 1. These have guards that shoot anyone drawing a weapon on sight, just like our friends at the Twister Club.
However, but they are NOT safezones. They also sell all the chems/lubes/tools/vehicle parts/etc that you need for this and they have a GR and GoGuardian. Thus it would be every newbies quest to get into these clubs without being ganked in order to tag the GR. Once you do that you're pretty safe. These apartments could also give bonii to those of relevant factions: one in DoY gives +25 or +50 in all tradeskills to DoY factions, etc. This is done OP bonus style, but no one actually owns the apartment.
Some of you will remember we had construction clubs like this in NC1, this is the best time and reason to bring them back.
What this accomplishes:
LEs are gone - so everyone can kill or be killed. Tradeskillers have 4 places that are large NPC enhanced appartments and have to be synched into (minimal zonewhoring) by typing a pass phrase into. PPUs are gone, blessed hybrids can still PPU teams and rezz is retained, but some caves are no longer a walk in the park. Area MC5 will become impossible to do conventionally, but these chips will be obtainable from all "boss mobs". Life will be harsher, but a lot more satisfying. OP wars will go on, but each team will have to have a contingency plan, or a stealthing character that will attempt to pick up belts of dead team mates.
Hunting will be more satisfying and rare collecting will take a fraction of the time in order to get you fully up to speed for PvP. People might play this server as a real alternative to the other 3 servers.
What I want from you, dear reader:
Please discuss these points constructively and add your own ideas. Would you play Neptune if the above was the ruleset? What other ideas do you have to make the gaming experience on Neptune different enough from the other servers. Please state your points briefly and concisely, so that they can be easily answered by "those in the know".
Mod/Dev feedback:
I would very much like a developer or moderator, who knows the technical aspects of NC, to tell us on a point-by-point basis which of these are possible and which of these are currently impossible due to technical restrictions. Let us shed some light on what can and cannot be done.
Disclaimer:
These are not all ideas I dreamed up on my own, but some of mine and others' ideas that I think would make Neptune work and exist as an attractive alternative to the other 3 servers.
edited: for engrish.
Sounds like a fine idea to me. You can expect people stading in the lift guns at the ready waiting for someone to come back down, but this is why there ought to be a GR in the apartment. Not sure why you want to increase cash gain from mobs. I think MC5 chips should still be as rare as a hens tooth though. Double the rare part drop rate - Three or four times sounds like a sledge hammer.
Q is: By removing the high level PPU spells, which class-type would be overpowered? None of them? It would make rezzing during a fight difficult, whilst being hit from all sides without support, which wouldn't be a bad thing, would it now.
Scanner Darkly
02-11-05, 18:45
Forum member Kawasaki PMed me this, asking me to post it in this thread:
I can't post because I don't have 100 posts or whatever yet the req is, but my opinion is that neptune would completely rock with most of these changes. however rares only need to double in drop rate.. I can usually get 4-5 an hour so its not that big a deal, thats if i ever have the motivation to log in and farm rares... Money increase should be about 1.75 imo , cause likewise I can easily pull in 100k an hour or more with barter (i'm using an exicutioner here to kill).
From what i've seen ppu's do completely ruin most pvp situations becuase everyone needs one to compete, so by removing their highest lv spells it removes most of their usefulness... however I was thinking more along the lines of simply increasing their chance of spell failure for ppu spells of this lv very high... so they can't move at all or most likely their spell will fail.
construction club-awsome
no le-awsome. a benifit of this- everyone can join a clan right away upon logging in
belt drops awsome.
extreme label (noice.)
at this point I think that they only have 2 options, change the server or remove the server and provide char transfers ... and i'm guessing changing the server is easier then doing that many transfer requests.
PS: Kawasaki if you have problems posting, why not PM friendly forum admin Nidhogg, or Lodar to sort it out for you.
> at this point I think that they only have 2 options, change the server or remove the server and provide char transfers ... and i'm guessing changing the server is easier then doing that many transfer requests.
My main char is there and has been since Pandore. Lets not start this crap again.
Didn't KK say somewhere that the only modifications they can make to Neptune are serverside?
So they can't change anything that would require a separate patch for the game client. Because then you would require two clients, one for Neptune and one for the rest of the servers.
And I think KK have said they don't want to go down that road.
:angel: (Re-)Introduce Construction club apartments - one in DoY City centre, one in MB, one in TH, one in Neocron Plaza 1. These have guards that shoot anyone drawing a weapon on sight, just like our friends at the Twister Club.
This sounds great :cool:
Or, in the case KK couldn't do such change, I would suggest making TH safezone anew, because no LE = no tradeskillers = FUBAR imho.
:angel: Remove all PPU spells above blessed/level 2 buffs
This sounds nice too, but I'm afraid it would have as a consequence a lot of people going for blessed hybrids, because nothing except a Ppu, a big team or a big mistake is able to stop a blessed hybrid on a Killing Spree (I've been playing one for long, trust me).
Scanner Darkly
02-11-05, 21:48
Didn't KK say somewhere that the only modifications they can make to Neptune are serverside?
So they can't change anything that would require a separate patch for the game client. Because then you would require two clients, one for Neptune and one for the rest of the servers.
And I think KK have said they don't want to go down that road.
Yeah this is true, but there are items that exist on Neptune that are unique to that server, so what is there to prevent KK from removing certain items.
The construction apartments themselves could quite happily exist on all servers and simply be disabled on the 3 other servers - in the same way that other content is - since they would require a pass phrase for entry.
Anyway I am throwing these ideas to the community and the devs/admins of our fair game and seeing what is possible, popular and likely to be effective, and what is not.
As many have said before the ruleset of this server has to be drastically different from the other server for players to bother playing there.
Also KK said that currently there is not that much flexibility in what can be changed server side and they are working on evo 2.1. This is all well and good, but surely it would be best to establish what IS POSSIBLE and what options need to be coded in in the future.
Perhaps with these issues addressed and tackled now, Neptune could have a more successful relaunch that will establish a higher and permanent player base on it in the new year.
Didn't KK say somewhere that the only modifications they can make to Neptune are serverside?
So they can't change anything that would require a separate patch for the game client. Because then you would require two clients, one for Neptune and one for the rest of the servers.
And I think KK have said they don't want to go down that road. can't they delete all holy PPU buffs from the neptune database?
yes, but I bet its a nightmare piece of SQL with twenty odd joins :D
awkward silence
02-11-05, 23:50
agree 100% percent with scanner
vashtyphoon78
03-11-05, 01:45
fucking brilliant. KK get to work.
Asurmen Spec Op
03-11-05, 01:57
I agree, but still no safezones
with a name like extreme, any vets who say Tradeskillers need LEs should be ASHAMED of themselves
I still think the Island idea for tradeskillers are cool.
Everyone has 2 default GR's at the start - Appartment and Island.
Island is a safe zone, only 1 way in and out - GR. All GR costs to the Island is 500ncr. This would benefit all servers, as then Plaza 1 and DOY city are no longer safe zones. Everyone has access to tradeskillers again. Coould create it as a central place for lube weapon parts, all mods and so on, but can't buy weapons or spells, they saty where they are.
People can GR in get trade skills done and GR out.
LE - Comes out.
Belt drops in all other zones (I dunno what this means for OP wars, but I imagine its no biggy as there are ot that many at present).
Making MC5 dime a dozen ... Dunno about this, but yes ... nuke PPU's and even use this as a test base for other server balancing of things like PPU's
funkeymonkey
03-11-05, 14:04
some good ideas. removing holy spells would make every monk a blessed hybrid though. Dont like the idea of running around op wars with only blessed s/d on my apu.
CritiNator
03-11-05, 15:38
Idea of having only blessed spells.. is NOT good.
Look it this way. Theres no point being pure PPU anymore right? And becose there is not many PPUs around APU's need to find new way to get healed. Thats hybrid. Server will be flooded with hybrids. Tl10 and blesseds..
I dont wanna see that. Without PPU,s hybrid will be even more powerfull and only ones who can create really working hybrid, need DS.
Just my opinion..
Bugs Gunny
03-11-05, 15:46
Just reintroduce the apu-ppu malus that was in nc1. It nicely killed off pvp hybrids.
And as for blessed ppus, they are good enough for pvp to give an apu-blessed hybrid team a serious edge towards two normal fighters.
RogerRamjet
03-11-05, 16:04
Just reintroduce the apu-ppu malus that was in nc1. It nicely killed off pvp hybrids.
Dude, Calvin Stormlords just camr back, dont help him out!
EDIT: The Gaia Glove may have something to do with hybrids now.
Scanner Darkly
03-11-05, 16:52
Yes I believe the malus would have to be brought back. OP wars with only blessed heals and buffs might call for different strategies and might not last as long as the ones we are used to on the normal servers.
Suddenly you might find that Spies PEs and Tanks are a lot more useful than before. Spies and PEs for their get-out-of-jail card stealth and being self sufficient (own s/d). Tank's superior resists would be more apparent when compared to monks, who could no longer hide behind holy shelter and heal and dance around killing everyone in sight.
I think it would call for better team work and most importantly would shake things up and CHANGE THE STYLE OF PLAY on this server.
Interesting thoughts there Scanner.
Change server label from PVP to extreme. (or similar) - Yeah agree, with the LE put into context and the differnces between the other server, Neptune really doesn't deserve the PvP title.
Remove LE (hay guize this servar si not for ppussies!!) - I'm still sticking to my guns that you still need the LE for tradeskillers in some way, but see my comments further on. Also how do you stop a load of /60 players going around ganking the /2 players who can't PvP yet?
Remove all PPU spells above blessed/level 2 buffs - The whole PPU class needs a rebalance, when that happens
Belt drops in all zones, looting rights, mobs style after 30 seconds anyone can open; (possibly) warzones need hack (or not). - If no-one had LE's and the 0/2 drops his gun that he just spent his hard earned 10k for, then that usually means the player will either re-roll, quit or starts begging for cash. I suggest that your belt only drops if you rank is within so many levels of your killer. (This would be a way to fix the /60 ganking a /2 player problem.)
Increase tech drop to 3-5x of norm - If people keep dropping all the guns, then yes. Then there is the argument of how rare is rare?
MC5 techs drop from all 120/120 mobs.... - Hmm not sure about this one, I'm on the side of "Non" at the moment. If this implemented, hunting spots would be camped.
Increase money from mobs 3x - I think 3x is too high. Change it to match the XP gain difference. (In other words if you get 25% more XP on Neptune, then you should get 25% more cash)
(Re-)Introduce Construction club apartments - If you removed the LE, then this would be a good alternative for tradeskillers.
Scanner Darkly
03-11-05, 17:24
Interesting thoughts there Scanner.
I'm still sticking to my guns that you still need the LE for tradeskillers in some way, but see my comments further on. Also how do you stop a load of /60 players going around ganking the /2 players who can't PvP yet?
The proposed designated areas would remove the need for LEs. "Newbies" would indeed get ganked, but since this is a server for experienced players, this would just be one obstacle to overcome. Also newbies ganked in anarchy/hunting zones still incurrs an SL penalty and getting red SL would still be a pain (even with higher SL gain).
The whole PPU class needs a rebalance, when that happens
I totally agree with you Bram, but this would be an instant way of shaking up gameplay and getting rid of old style PPUs. See above on talk about hybrid malus reintroduction.
If no-one had LE's and the 0/2 drops his gun that he just spent his hard earned 10k for, then that usually means the player will either re-roll, quit or starts begging for cash. I suggest that your belt only drops if you rank is within so many levels of your killer. (This would be a way to fix the /60 ganking a /2 player problem.)
Alternatively have a safeslot until rank /30. Another way would be to have a belt drop locked if you get killed by someone who is more than 10 overall ranks higher than you. But I think that we're just applying our civilized terran ways of the carebear to this "harcore" pro server.
If people keep dropping all the guns, then yes. Then there is the argument of how rare is rare?
Again the main target of this server is for people to fight, experience that pure adranaline rush, not spend ages gathering rares - most would have done that over months/years on the other servers with their other characters.
Hmm not sure about this one [MC5 part drop idea], I'm on the side of "Non" at the moment. If this implemented, hunting spots would be camped.
This means people won't be camping MC5, but will be hunting Grim Chasers, Giant Hover Bombers, Y-rep Commanders, etc in order to slowly collect their MC5 chips (faster and less frustrating than MC5 itself of course). There are several zones with these mobs and people hunting here would get plenty of PvP with their PvM. The hunting spots being camped point is moot, since MC5 is just one location in the whole map and that could be camped far more severely, than 8+ separate zones where 120/120 mobs are found plus all the cave boss mobs.
Again this server is about getting your character set up to your liking as quickly as possible and enjoy the end game - PvP.
I think 3x [money increase] is too high. Change it to match the XP gain difference. (In other words if you get 25% more XP on Neptune, then you should get 25% more cash)
I believe it has been stated that xp gain is 3x that of the other servers. The problem with this is, that you end up with a fully capped character who has little or no money. We all know how frustrating that can be (my capped PE had about 100k and thats only because he started hunting WBs). I'm not saying that money should be come irrelevant, but you shouldn't have to spend too much time making it - again not the point of the server.
[Construction club apartments] If you removed the LE, then this would be a good alternative for tradeskillers.
This is key if LEs are removed completely and no safezones exist. I think guard policed shoot on weapon draw areas are far less atmosphere destroying and don't go against the spirit of the server like safezones.
I like the tradeskill island area but using tradeskill (construction club) apartments would be easier to implement I think - if their GRs could become publicly taggable.
I do like all these ideas.
I dont see the need for the construction club apartments though, obviously they are nice to have, but certainly not a requirement.
I have always thought that tradeskilling is something that is possible to be run out of standard apartments by organised tradeskillers. LE has clearly never been a good idea for the PvP server. How difficult is it to change apartment passwords on a per customer basis? Sure this level of organisation may put some tradeskillers off, fine, they have all the other servers to run their tradeskill operation on without the risks associated with buying parts or chems from a store in a non safe area. I cant see it putting all traders off though, for instance, there already is a tradeskill outfit running out of an apartment in pp3 on neptune.
edit:
Remove LE (hay guize this servar si not for ppussies!!) - I'm still sticking to my guns that you still need the LE for tradeskillers in some way, but see my comments further on. Also how do you stop a load of /60 players going around ganking the /2 players who can't PvP yet?
xx/60s ganking xx/2s is not going to happen all the time. It will happen no doubt, but it's not going to be *impossible* to level, especially considering it is up to the xx/2 player to find somewhere quiet and suitable to level. A lot of people (well at least this used to be the case) feel quite strongly about this kind of ganking, as long as you're friendly enough, you should be able to get some form of assistance from higher level players on your alliance channel. That's the way it always worked in nc1 retail start anyway in my experience. It's not going to be easy to level at xx/2 but you do have 3x XP gain and I really believe the chances of a PKer bothering to loot a low level character's belt to be quite low.
agree with original poster ideas completely, except remove the blessed ppu line as well.
It's not going to be easy to level at xx/2 but you do have 3x XP gain and I really believe the chances of a PKer bothering to loot a low level character's belt to be quite low.This game and especially neptune is full if asshats who'd do that all the time. Cause who cares if he mainly polaying another server and it's piss easy to get back SL anyway.
And afterwards they log onto the forums and whine about low pops cause of all the noobs leaving again. :rolleyes:
I still want the LE removed from neptune. :)
/edit
I SO gotta get my apu hybrid going again to see how strong they are these days. Got a nice setup.
Btw Roger, rank 42/43 now. :p
Scanner Darkly
04-11-05, 13:47
Thank you everyone for your input.
However, this thread is "just another pipe dream", without a structured response by a member of the Reakktor team. Are some/any of these things possible/being considered/likely to get implemented?
It would just be good to know these things, so that we don't get our hopes up and we can just bury Neptune and be done with it.
Maybe if you good folks rate this thread, it might have a better chance of getting noticed by the powers that be.
Powers that be have limited capactiy, and are focusing on what they think the main drive should be.
Their idea is to draw more people in, not to please the current population - isn't that funny. We the current play base, are the reason they still get income, yet we are not on the top of the Agenda.
I like the jones missions and all, but their focus is not current player base, its the new players.
Evo 2.1, is to make NC nice, to attract new players. Although pops are ow, to rev them up takes 2 things, a draw card and a stay factor. draw card pulls people in for the 10 day trail period. Stay factor is to make sure that once their 10 days are up, they have had an experiance worth staying for. In that 10 days they should be mid, mid-high or high level. At this point anything designed for new players are forgotten, new graphics are forgotten and we are looking at staying power.
If somehow one of these new guys, stays around long enough, they will be on the forums joining in the same crap we all do, about content, pop numbers, and so on .......
Generally like the Ideas.
LEs should definately be removed, but to help level, maybe they should just automatically "fall out" at rank /45 and never be able to be put back in. This saves from "noob ganking"
Trading DEFINATELY needs a safezone. Trading is completely ruined, noone wants to step out into a public place with a 5 slot CS in their inv ready to be dropped during the sale. The island idea is good as it stops people zoneline camping, but an appartment could possibly accomplish this too.
Removing high PPU spells is an ok idea. It has the side effects of making high level mobs a LOT harder. For PVP it also makes stealth a lot more effective. Without high level ppu spells, there would be no way to stop a stealther from stealthing. Since PEs can stealth, this adds to their already too powerful streak and leaves annoying spies like droners an easy escape.
LE should fall out at a set level between 30-45 or become inactive prompting removal.
Why no Le's from the start = too much noob ganking, yes its an extreme(pvp) server your supposed to expect it! but it will make people move to other servers because they can't level at all.
I see it like this. 0/2
- Leave appy - attempt to buy ammo in shop - Get ganked - genrep Appy
- Leave appy - buy ammo in shop - head for levelling - Get ganked - Genrep appy
- Leave appy - Head for levelling - enter sewers - Get ganked........
There are already griefers all over these servers this would become grief central you need some form of protection at the early levels otherwise you may never get levelled, well maybe CON :lol:
How to stop Zone whoring? Just make apartments safe zones then Tradeskillers can operate out of their apartment - trade skillers club etc.
Remove all safezones , allow belt drops all zones.
Up tech drop rate not MC5's your gonna have to work for those!
Damage dealer gets the belt drop like mob privelige
thats about it
How to stop Zone whoring? Just make apartments safe zones then Tradeskillers can operate out of their apartment - trade skillers club etc.
Agree with that totally, and it's probably the easiest thing for KK to accomplish.
Scanner Darkly
04-11-05, 15:51
The newbie ganking issue - as has already been said, if you're being repeatedly pked as a newbie - call on ooc/trade: "Hay guys, there's a red sl runner called __________ in ________ who would just love to drop something nice in his/her belt". You could always hire a merc for deferred payment.
I would have no problem if the LE dropped at say rank /30, but this might require a change in the codebase. One of the reasons for this thread is to determine what is possible with the current ruleset and what is not.
Removing level 3 spells from this server would mean hunting would become a little harder, but since most mobs are soloable by apus and tanks, riflers or even pistollers who know how to use cover - I don't see this as a big problem. There are also vehicles that give you 100% protection - again you don't need a ppu for that.
Stealthers could not be parashocked (I would like to see True Sight Sanctum left in game - despite it only working when the target is stationary for several seconds within it's shere of effect) but they could be Damage boosted, poisoned/set on fire and attacked by AoE. I think that still leaves plenty of tools for the killing of stealthers.
‡ Stormlord ‡
04-11-05, 20:32
Dude, Calvin Stormlords just camr back, dont help him out!
EDIT: The Gaia Glove may have something to do with hybrids now.
Woot? O_o
I was just thinking about this doomed server after posting in another thread, I think the PVP server should be changed to this.
-No safezones
-*No faction gaurds and no copbots players must deal with the fights*
-Soul light loss for killing allied runners is increased and it never ticks up on its own you must do missions to fix it your evil >.<
- LE remains the same
- SI regain remains the same (FASTER)
- Leveling remains the same (FASTER)
- Weapon slots remain the same (MORE)
What this would do is force people to roleplay F6 unless they don't mind losing there stuff ^^, With no copbots and no faction guards and NO! doybots. People would get all the PVP they needed without losing any soullight by killing the real enemys to there citys. Imo this is how every server should be ...
Agreed except the LE
Having the LE is STUPID!
One of the main problems with the server currently is the LE. Noone wants to take it out. Forcing it to fall out at /45 would be the best idea IMO, and as far as I can think it should b easily implemented server side.
Currently we have the ability to drop imps upon death. All they would need to do is add a script that runs every time a rank changes above 45 that says:
"Is an LE in a slot? - YES - Ok, 'Parts of your implants have been seriously damaged.'"
LEs already have a rank limit on putting them back in, so this would sort the prob.
Agreed except the LE
Having the LE is STUPID!
One of the main problems with the server currently is the LE. Noone wants to take it out. Forcing it to fall out at /45 would be the best idea IMO, and as far as I can think it should b easily implemented server side.
Currently we have the ability to drop imps upon death. All they would need to do is add a script that runs every time a rank changes above 45 that says:
"Is an LE in a slot? - YES - Ok, 'Parts of your implants have been seriously damaged.'"
LEs already have a rank limit on putting them back in, so this would sort the prob.
Wrong no one wants to take it out because some pker of the same faction WILL kill them for there belt and they want to be fully prepared to deal with the loss. The pvp server should be about PVP not random pking of your own faction and allies, pvp server should be pure pvp in plaza 1 TG vs CA with no copbots. The LE chip can't even be removed from a single sever anyway but I agree if it could then it should be removed
/edit I do like your idea of LE falling out upon death but this would have to be done on all servers, it would cost KK too much money just to make a seperate server like this with different client install. Currently i think there doing ok because each server is configured the same way same patch and everything .
It wouldnt actually fall out at death, it would just fall out after you hit the rank using the same principal as a death thing. And of course they can remove the LE from the server altogether. They just tell the server not to add LEs to new runners, search the database for LEs and remove them (as they did with some bugged items before), and remove them from the list of the CA fsm or whoever it is that sells em (which is serverside AFAIK)
Also, people arent just scared of dying to allies, some people will make a second char with an LE to do all their hunting safely, so they can make their main char stronger. This is a bit stuid. If they want to be big and hunt, they should have the risk of gankage.
Scanner Darkly
07-11-05, 15:11
I think removing the guards and copbots from everywhere but HQs would also improve PvP prospects.
Anyway since this thread has gotten big fat 0 feedback from the powers that be, might as well close it.
Closed by thread starter.
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