View Full Version : Why not make PSI Resists work?
IF PSI resists were made to work, how would they work?
Why were they made inoperable?
What would be the disadvantage to having them work? I would imagine putting PSI resists in for another class would balance things out a bit.. Perhaps have the PSI resists moved to CONSTITUTION?
Any ideas? Devs?
uh...well did it ever work? for that matter most psi modules dont do psi dmg, they do elemental, etc
it mainly just gives monks another advantage... (they are the only ones who will have room to spec it)
This is true, i dont think anyone but (maybe not even most monks) would sacrifice ability on their heal and whatnot so they dont take as much dmg from psi attacks.
But even if it did work in that way then my guess is it would only be a small percentage of the damage reduced by it so it wouldn't really be worth it to put enough points in it to be worth a damn
Paper Dragon
16-10-05, 04:56
As someone above mentioned, very few modules actually do Psionic based damage, so Resist Psi does work, it's just redundant for the most part.
Lifewaster
16-10-05, 05:04
uh...well did it ever work?
Well I think it may originally have worked versus DB effects.
Whats strange is how a low lvl mob needs DB cast once to max dmg.
A high lvl mob needs DB cast 3 times , and a ceres mob needs DB cast 5 times.
Maybe these mobs have a psi resist value effecting it.
Asurmen Spec Op
16-10-05, 05:14
PSI resist has one MAJOR flaw if it was entered
It would just make people utterly PPU dependent, dont believ me? go look on a skill manager.
personally, I think it should make you resistant to ALL forign spells
I remember specing psi resist back in NC1 and it effected how long my heals, deflectors and shelter lasted.
//Edit//
It effected it by making it last shorter.
Asurmen Spec Op
16-10-05, 07:26
I remember specing psi resist back in NC1 and it effected how long my heals, deflectors and shelter lasted.
//Edit//
It effected it by making it last shorter.
I never noticed
I'm with Asurmen here, introducing resist psi with the spells in their current state
would cause every PE, Spy & Tank to basicly put all points into resist psi, thus
not being able to heal themselves, and being fully dependant on the ppu.
Just remove the skill from the RPOS and i'm happy.
Asurmen Spec Op
16-10-05, 09:48
I'm with Asurmen here, introducing resist psi with the spells in their current state
would cause every PE, Spy & Tank to basicly put all points into resist psi, thus
not being able to heal themselves, and being fully dependant on the ppu.
Just remove the skill from the RPOS and i'm happy.
I agree, removing is the best idea
IN THEORY
If you made it resist forign PSI spells too it could be "balanced" but Practically Theyd just get the mark that gives the best of both.
Scanner Darkly
16-10-05, 11:31
Just remove the skill from the RPOS and i'm happy.
yes please
personally, I think it should make you resistant to ALL forign spells
I agree.
I also think that IF kept and made active:
1. It should be moved to CONSTITUTION.
2. It should ONLY apply to foreign cast spells (both PPU/APU based).
Dribble Joy
16-10-05, 16:44
I wouldn't mind it altered to something that affects skills/weapon systems that work outside the normal PvP area. Ie. droning or vehicle use.
Otherwise people will ignore it entirely or as mentioned, exponentially magnify PPU dependance.
Heavyporker
16-10-05, 19:12
No, no, no.
keep PSI Resist, make it work, keep PSR in PSI.
There's a reason we have stats and subskills and classes.... for choices.. variation...
And don't forget.. we have two classes of LOW-REQ Psi Resist implants...
PSI Attacks should change over to 50% PSI Damage/ 50% Force...
DamageBoosts, Parashocks, (foreign) Shields and (foreign) Heals should have effectiveness based PSR...
All APU spells should have damage reduced overall (about 5 average % and about 10% off the maximum, to make apu damage less wildly variable) and then 20% of that elemental damage changed to direct PSI damage, and then PSR would count into damage calculations.
GenTanks and PEs don't *have* to spec PSR. Psi Monks don't *have* to spec PSR. It's an option. There are implants. There could be drugs (wasn't there Rust, already?) and perhaps there could be a new line of PSI Resist psi modules (Mental Focus) to shave yet some more off all that new gorgeous PSI Damage!
Asurmen Spec Op
16-10-05, 19:15
There are PSI resist imps
but the ONLY people who will ever spec it, are monks. mabye it's good for RP shopkeepers, but not for anyone who already has to deal with the existing balance problems.
Dribble Joy
16-10-05, 20:22
GenTanks and PEs don't *have* to spec PSR. Psi Monks don't *have* to spec PSR. It's an option. There are implants. There could be drugs (wasn't there Rust, already?) and perhaps there could be a new line of PSI Resist psi modules (Mental Focus) to shave yet some more off all that new gorgeous PSI Damage!
There's a difference between options, necessity and balance.
No offence, but stick to your RP dude, it's what you do best.
Heavyporker
16-10-05, 22:14
*cough*
Kamis aren't necessary. However, they are excellent options.
And let's be real clear on this point - nothing's truly "necessary". A few points in PSR for a runner is not "make or break"
Hell, 5 points in any CON-based resist isn't "make or break".
I don't see how Devs say " Don't put any points in Resist PSI, It doesn't work!"
When they could easily just remove it off the RPOS, Hell I could even do it in Paint!
all they'd need to do is include the "new" RPOS in a patch!
kami's aren't neccessary, but they make sense.
a psi resist where it is now especially, doesnt.
As someone above mentioned, very few modules actually do Psionic based damage, so Resist Psi does work, it's just redundant for the most part.
Would love to hear more about this.
And don't forget.. we have two classes of LOW-REQ Psi Resist implants...
http://neocron.ems.ru/armor.html
TL 8, Req: Psi = 8
Crahn Defensiv-PSI-Field 1
PSR+7 PPU-3 APU-3 MST-3
TL 12, Req: Psi = 12
Crahn PSI-Resistor 1
PSR+5
TL 33, Req: Psi = 33
Crahn Defensiv-PSI-Field 2
PSR+10 PPU-5 APU-5 MST-5
TL 37, Req: Psi = 37
Crahn PSI-Resistor 2
PSR+10
Too bad for the most part, they're completely useless. Think of a pe, would I rather a Moveon? Or a Psi-Resistor 2 Which I have to drug to put in and keep in.
I agree.
I also think that IF kept and made active:
1. It should be moved to CONSTITUTION.
2. It should ONLY apply to foreign cast spells (both PPU/APU based).
The idea of it negating only foreign cast spell is good, however, the effect would need to be quite significant, while not making APU's compeletly useless. Though tanks are just about the only class who can afford to spec another resist easily, Pes and Monks (though who would as a monk?) might be able to, but it would stop them from speccing poison (like 60-70 odd).
A few points in PSR for a runner is not "make or break"When spec'ing a Spy for Shelter, it is. When spec'ing Psi on a Tank, it is.
And exactly what other resist has some sort of effect when only "a few points" are spec'ed? What makes you think Psi Resist's effects would be any different than any of the other resists we have already?
If they're going to implement Psi Resist, at least put it under CON.
I don't see how Devs say " Don't put any points in Resist PSI, It doesn't work!"
When they could easily just remove it off the RPOS, Hell I could even do it in Paint!
all they'd need to do is include the "new" RPOS in a patch!
hear hear!
might have been already said, but i dunt care :>
psi resist = fucked up pe's, fucked up spies, fucked up tanks.
only monks would have enough spare psi point to spec for psi resist.
Heavyporker
18-10-05, 15:19
Wow. I can't believe you guys.
IceStorm... Your arguement sounds like that all Spies simply *must* have Shelter... And that all GenTank *require* a pretty Heal + Heal Sanctum setup or a "maxxed Heal module RoF" to compete.
You guys seem to be forgetting something.
These are frigging choices.
One could choose to spec for Shelter on a Spy. One could choose to spec up for great personal heals. With the changes to PSR that I suggested... one could choose to go for PSR and resist one class' damage type better.
Look at the fucking numbers would you? Various %'s of PSI damage have been suggested to make the APU's damage ability make more sense. Hell, I myself suggested that the max damage on APU modules should be reduced overall if they were to have their damage types split between two types.
I didn't hear a hue and cry over that there are damage mods that split weapon type damage into two, like Plasma weapons, Laser weapons, Flamethrowers, Rockets, Fusion weapons, yadda yadda yadda. Hell, even tech-based freezers have two damage types (or rather, effect AND damage).
Sheesh!
So anyone know what the original intention of Resist PSI was? PSI attack 1 and 2 is currently a force/energy weapon. If resist PSI was made to work, and PSI attack was changed to do PSI damage, I can see an APU/PPU teams with PSI attack 2 just going around and wiping the floor.
I say bin PSI resist, and add Mental Bandwidth for hackers, as Dirus sugguested in this thread (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=127716&page=2&pp=30).
I didn't hear a hue and cry over that there are damage mods that split weapon type damage into two, like Plasma weapons, Laser weapons, Flamethrowers, Rockets, Fusion weapons, yadda yadda yadda. Hell, even tech-based freezers have two damage types (or rather, effect AND damage).
That's because each of those weapons don't do the most amount of damage in the game.
Apus can have more then one damage type, HL, FA, Toxic Beam, not to mention the fact, they have an antibuff which just makes it irrelevant to which damage type they use.
IceStorm... Your arguement sounds like that all Spies simply *must* have Shelter... And that all GenTank *require* a pretty Heal + Heal Sanctum setup or a "maxxed Heal module RoF" to compete.
You guys seem to be forgetting something.
These are frigging choices.
One could choose to spec for Shelter on a Spy. One could choose to spec up for great personal heals. With the changes to PSR that I suggested... one could choose to go for PSR and resist one class' damage type better.
The point is, you do need a shelter or a heal (at 52/min) to compete. If you do spec PSR to combat monks, then how are you going to fight against pes? tanks? or other spies?
It's not called choices, it's stupid how one class would have to completely gimp their fighting ability against everyone but monks, just to combat monks. While monks still have the same setup which works against everyone. And this one class goes for all of them.
IceStorm... Your arguement sounds like that all Spies simply *must* have Shelter...For PvP combat? It's either that or shove a PPU up one's ass.
And that all GenTank *require* a pretty Heal + Heal Sanctum setup or a "maxxed Heal module RoF" to compete.For PvP combat? It's either that or shove a PPU up one's ass.
You guys seem to be forgetting something.
These are frigging choices.You're the one who seems to be "forgetting" something, like how much resist is required in order to even begin putting a dent in the impact weapons have. A few points in PSR isn't going to do anything. Opting to dump 50 of the 97 Psi points a Spy gets into PSR would get you, what, 30% resist to a new class of Psi attacks? What about the other 40 to 50% of resist one would need for PvP combat?
It's a resist. If you want a resist, it has to go into CON. If you make it a Psi-based resist, the game will become even more of a monk'o'cron than it is now. There will only be two character classes in use: Spies for tradeskilling and APU/PPU/Hybrid Monks for combat.
Lifewaster
19-10-05, 14:56
I think ideally Psi resist could be made to work in PvP by applying it to the existing special Psi effect spells, such as Para and DB, rather then trying to apply it to the standard spell damage types.
So for example , 50 points in it would give 50% reduction in freeze/boost strength and duration.
So with 50 points invested you would be looking at getting a half strength holy para for 15 secs, and a half strength DB for 30 secs.
33 points (which would be in reach of all chars even tanks) would be sufficient to take enough of the sting out of holy para to severely dent its current usage.
And as mentioned, there is about 7-22 points available in basic implants which would be an optional choice for chars to switch in for OP wars or such.
[TgR]KILLER
19-10-05, 15:05
For PvP combat? It's either that or shove a PPU up one's ass.
Unless your a spy that just snipes. my spy doesn't use shelter.. hell she doesn't even have resists.
33 points (which would be in reach of all chars even tanks) would be sufficient to take enough of the sting out of holy para to severely dent its current usage.
Nope, what would take the sting out of holy para however, is to remove it completely.
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