View Full Version : Monks
Are fine. All classes are balanced for thier purposes. In an op fight up front you should have apus ppus and tanks, even buffed apus can't take all the dmg at times, hence why you need tanks. The spys who are SUPPOSED TO STAY BACK can drone or snipe. Pistol spies are more of a solo stealth class. Not to mention everyone needs hackers. PE's are not very effective.... why? BECAUSE THEY ARE A SOLO CLASS
the only issue is blessed hybrids overlap with PEs too much. This could be fixed by giving PEs more utility to make up for the fact that 1v1 a blessed hybrid has more defence and the same fire power. Not to mention PEs make exelent drivers. Hence ALL CLASSES ARE GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO People whine because they want to be a front line class, but the game is not made that way, you have classes who function well in the fray and ones who do better from a distance, in a vehicle, or solo
PE's are a solo class? solo vs who ?? the apu ppu teams in plaza ? the apu ppu teams in pepper park? the apu ppu teams at outpost fights?
APUs, Tanks, Spies, PE's are pretty balanced to each other 1vs1. when you throw a ppu to one side it just throws the balance out the window completely. It makes people who suck- good, people who are good- gods...
all classes are good at what they. some are too good.
blessed hybs should have there defense reduced, not PE's defense increased..
even KK have said they are working on (and this is a quote from them) the "ppu problem". Not that I expect something to be done ever. why dont you go back in game and whore your PPUs and quit trying to pretend its all fine. fighting with a ppu is what you do when you like winning more then you like fighting.
Actually... sniper spies are not very useful. A sniper can't see any longer than anyone else can and at a distance (close to clipping range) you most often can't see anyone in an op war even though you know the op is full of people.
If you are lucky enough to actually see anyone, they keep "blinking" around and are impossible to target.
And even if you manage to see someone and target him to start sniping you often find yourself sniped back at ...by a tank with a cannon. :rolleyes:
Onero S: I hope this is some kind of a joke.
the problem is that w/o ppus apus don't have any defensive spells, so when they do have a ppu they get a considerably larger advantage over other classes who usually do have ppu spells.
RogerRamjet
11-09-05, 23:25
I agree that all classes are balanced. Add a PPU to the equation and its unbalances it massively.
Vae Victis
12-09-05, 00:14
you know.. nothing is overpowered or underpowered.
APUs do massive dmg, but hit them once and they need to stay at IC for over a month. (intensive care).
Tanks; can take shitloads of dmg, and were supposed to deal a great amount of dmg (ingame, not true)
Spy, basically same as the APU but with a bit higher defense and lower offense.
PE; equal in resists/dmg output.
PPU; pure defense, no offense unless u wanna kill people with a baseball bat or something, activated by the melee3 buff the PPU is wearing.
All fine and shiz, we all know this.
Tank + PPU = Tank finally has his meant dmg-output, caused by dmg-boost.
Spy + PPU = Spy gets a bit better resists (haz3) and with a dmg-boost, his dmg-output is immense.
PE + PPU = worth shit. PE's resists have improved with about 10/15%, not much anyway.
offense is pretty much the same, since PE's already have, and use a dmg-boost.
APU + PPU = nuff said, invincible.
Why don't KK just remove monks, and make a new class? with no wizardry.
just remove monks and apu skill with it, so the other classes can still use heals and buffs etc, give tanks a bit more defense and it's all PERFECTLY balanced.
Tadaaaaaa.. forums = alot LESS whinethreads about monks/ppus/etc.
man if only I worked for KK.. I would do this company so much good.
I posted an idea about this in yet another monk thread recently. Hang on, let me go look.
Here it is...
If we could only have resist PSI so it worked on all foreign casts.
It could take the edge off the effectiveness of APU and PPU relative to the PSI level of the target. A tank wouldn't spec any, a spy could try, a pe could probably do well, and an APU could be a bit more self sufficient, what would a Hybrid do?
Might need a few points added to the PSI Energy pools as a means to tune it.
I'd love to try it.
Monks will never go ANYWHERE, and here is why
The order of Crahn
And
2523
While searching for minerals a patrol from the Crahn tribe discovers the entrance to a cave, which was buried by rocks. Since they suspect an ore mine to be within the cave, ten sturdy men of the tribe begin to excavate the entrance. After working four days they discover a cathedral-sized passage, which leads deep into the mountain. Upon clearing the way of all obstacles and after another group has ventured deeper into the mountain, they surprisingly encounter other human beings.
They find out that these people have lived inside the mountain for uncounted generations, isolated from the world outside. Their ancestors had sought shelter from the natural forces in the caves centuries ago. After the entrance to the caves became buried, no other way out was left. A subterranean river supplied the people with water and food and thus they dwelled for centuries in the colossal underground caverns of a mountain range.
The skin of these people is hardly pigmented and they are extremely thin and lean of stature. They are bald and have big black eyes with virtually no white left. It's discovered that they apparently don't communicate verbally and that they are as good as blind.
When one of the warriors hits one of the cave dwellers on the head just for fun his companions witness how the warrior is raised about nine feet into the air by invisible hands, just before he explodes from inside out.
Afterwards two witnesses confirm that the eyes of the cave dweller were glowing red by that time.
From then on the cave dwellers are treated with much respect. They are lead to Crahn, who is fascinated by them from the start. Since he assumes that one day his tribe will profit from the powers of these people, he decides to admit the cave dwellers to his tribe.
Though they quickly learn to talk, they still mostly remain to themselves. Since they obviously possess telekinetic psi powers the other tribe members call them Psi Monks.
http://cp.neocron.com/10/history
Its in history, deal with it.
Vae Victis
12-09-05, 01:05
Its in history, deal with it.rewrite history :x
Lifewaster
12-09-05, 02:06
HAB is the battle winner if both sides have ppus , thus it comes down to whether or not both sides have apus.
eg:
6 random non-monks + 1 ppu
vs
5 random non-monks + a ppu , and 1 apu
no contest
...in fact the apu + ppu alone could prob win vs the other 7
If we want to stop monkocron, I think we need to lose HAB and find some other solution to holy heal s/d .
umm PPUs are SUPPOSED TO MAKE A HUGE DIFFRENCE they are a primary support class. The you guys seem to be having is the apu/ppu combo is to strong, correct? So don't nerf monks, make other classes better at what they do, increase sniper range/dmg, increase tank's dmg absorbtion, ectra, instead of nerfing all classes to make them more like each other, buff the other classes creating classes that are better at their unique rolls
so instead of adjusting(NERFING! OMG) one rediculously imbalanced class; they should change everyone else :confused:
the main opposition is ppu whoring players who dont have any skill :rolleyes:
i believe the ppu is intended to increase ones resistances to damage and life expectancy, not portable near invincibility (even i can kill things/people with a ppu)
I'll tell you what takes skill KILLING SOMEONE WITH A PPU Honistly it takes more skill to kill a ppu buffed person when your both buffed then it is to gank a lone apu.
thats right, but to be the guy with the PPU takes very little skill; but killing him takes a lot. theres unbalanced...
vashtyphoon78
12-09-05, 04:26
umm PPUs are SUPPOSED TO MAKE A HUGE DIFFRENCE they are a primary support class. The you guys seem to be having is the apu/ppu combo is to strong, correct? So don't nerf monks, make other classes better at what they do, increase sniper range/dmg, increase tank's dmg absorbtion, ectra, instead of nerfing all classes to make them more like each other, buff the other classes creating classes that are better at their unique rolls
im all for it. make a SH do minimum 1200 damage to everything. WHOOO FOR UNBALANCEDNESS! if spys did that much damage with rifles they would be about as much needing of nerfing as APU/PPU combos.
Remove foreign S/D and parashock.
And possibly onero Ses posting abilities.
And possibly onero Ses posting abilities.
owned :p
but really in game is full of people who feel the same way; they dont care about balance or something that's out of whack, it's good for them therefore it's good.
and they'll defend it no matter what (usually using the words 'nib' or 'stfu' a lot)
rewrite history :x
who controls the past controls the future
who controls the present controls the past. :D
Bugs Gunny
12-09-05, 09:21
Classes are ballanced as they are now. As long as ppus don't interfere.
I even have to admit apu hybrids are not that much unballanced.
But seriously, i just don't get it why people think having a ppu on them is so fantastic? Pvp with ppus to me feels like cheating in a single player game.
Sure you can kill loads of people, but in the back of your mind you know it's not due to your skill.
Hell, op wars without ppus would be a lot more fun. I quit doing opwars, because it's nothing but either barreling the ug, being parashocked 80% of the time and everyone just crawling around trying to hit a target with a holy heal running. The only class able to break this stalemate is apus with antibuff.
In my opinion, KK killed pvp when they introduced pure ppus. They would have done a lot better just ballancing the hybrids.
In my opinion, KK killed pvp when they introduced pure ppus. They would have done a lot better just ballancing the hybrids.
Bring back exotic psi, remove all holy buff spells, adjust the other spells in term
of damage / healing power / defence power
:)
the thing you guys can't seem to under stand, is if your op team is working properly you will be ppu buffed as well as you oponents. And despite you claim, it is very very possable to kill anyone but a tank through a holy heal/shelter. Hence why tanks are importat too. They can only be fesably killed with the help of an apu. Even droners can play an important role with rapters. If a class needs a buff I would say buff sniper dmg by giving them a mod that alows 50% of their dmg to ignore holy shelter/deflecter. PEs as I have said before are not made for an op fight, not to say they can't do one, but they are optimised be be a "jack of all trades" solo class. Even pistol spies can play an important part, and if the new sniper mod was in place it would most likely be their job to hunt down said snipers/droners.
What part of the game isn't balanced? You don't like being beaten by some guy with a ppu? Fine get your self a ppu IT TAKES MORE SKILL WHEN BOTH GUYS HAVE A PPU THAN WHEN NEATHER DO.
Also you complained of being parashocked the whole fight? Have your ppu anti para you. Though I will admit giving para shock a mana cost on par with holy antibuff would help to balance things as at the moment it can be spamed in a semi rediculous way.
What part of the game isn't balanced? You don't like being beaten by some guy with a ppu? Fine get your self a ppu IT TAKES MORE SKILL WHEN BOTH GUYS HAVE A PPU THAN WHEN NEATHER DO.
So you're honestly saying the game is balanced because both people can have a ppu backing them. As already mentioned ppus give different advantages to the different classes, the class that gains the biggest advantage of course being the apu.
Now let's say all classes are balanced before ppu which is close to accurate, once you add a ppu to the class they are no longer balanced. Pes become worthless in this equation, tanks and spies do ok still inferior to the apu ppu combo however. So by adding another ppu to a fight on both sides unless the fight is a certain class vs another member of the same class you have completely destroyed any sense of balance.
So ok what you are saying is the game is completely balanced if everyone plays an apu and has a ppu friend then ok you are correct WAY TO GO!@!#!@#
Bugs Gunny
12-09-05, 14:28
Hey, here's one for you:
If i start using an aimbot you shouldn't complain, since you can also install one...........
I understand you're trying to add your opinion and you probably gave it a lot of thought.
The whole problem with ppus and all possible "fixes" kk tried is that it ended up in upping the dammages and protection for all classes to try and compensate. Which in turn lead to things like mc5 mobs being all 120's, and megamobs entering the game to be able to give those capped ppu buffed chars someting to fight.
Wanna know the current problem with ppus?
Assume each character is made up of A (offence) and B(defence).
A+B= 10
All classes besides ppu and the hybrids are around a total of 10 now. Which means ballance.
What happens when you add a ppu is that certain classes get their dammage output increased a lot more (db) and their defences are boosted through the roof.
This leads to an apu getting a total score of 18, a tank of something like 16-17 a spy gets 13ish and pes... well they get around 11.
No longer ballanced.
The only reason why opwars are now monk-o-cron is because apus and ppus can hack, meaning the need for spies is eliminated. Apus do the highest dammage, add to that the +50% dammageincrease from dammageboost, means with db they do insane dammage. They also can antibuff, something which tanks can't do, and when their con is setup right, with SD and holy heal they'll kill any tank before the tank can kill them.
The only thing to kill an apu-ppu team with a non ppu fightersquad is noobheal and noobbuffs if possible, and even then you'll have apu-ppu teams complaining about it.
If you want to play Dungeons and Dragons, this is not your game.
Hey, here's one for you:
If i start using an aimbot you shouldn't complain, since you can also install one...........
nice one, bugs.
Vae Victis
12-09-05, 15:02
Yeah n1 bugs, gimme it ^^
stop parroting me, idiot !
image some own stuff u could write instead of just copy my posts !!!
Vae Victis
12-09-05, 15:09
o_O
take some medicine eric, you're emotionally disturbed.
no1 loves you :)
harr ...
harr harr har ... har ...
stafu ..
har haarrrrr harrr harr ....
i love myself ... harr har ... love, hate ... har
Bugs Gunny
12-09-05, 15:39
For all i care, you can love yourself all you want.
I do however have a problem with you touching yourself all the time :D
And i'll send you a nice aimbot: "Dulcolax extra strong"
Nothing beats aiming with squinted eyes and pulsating neckveins.
Vae Victis
12-09-05, 15:39
"Dulcolax extra strong"That an aimbot? sounds like a STR drug
That an aimbot? sounds like a STR drug
str drug ? sounds like a condom ...
Vae Victis
12-09-05, 15:54
or u guys sound like sexist 35 yr old lonely men who have never had sex... o_O
Bugs Gunny
12-09-05, 15:58
It's a laxative.
Btw kids... fyi, laxatives take a while to work.
So if you ever happen to be constipated, don't take the recomended dose at 11:30pm, then wake up at 12:30pm thinking :"Hey this shit don't work" (excuse the pun)
And subsequently go downstairs to take another six........
I had to take a day off work when that happened.
Oh damn, did i say it was me? I meant it happened to a friend of a friend.... :angel:
EDIT @ ICE:
You can perfectly be a 30y old man with a sexlife history to fill a videostore and an amazingly beautyfull gf, and STILL be a male chauvinist sexist pig
*oink oink** :D
I won, the lax at the end gave it away.
Bugs Gunny
12-09-05, 16:09
Damn, we're gonna have an influx of superaiming "druggies" on the servers now.....
But please DO send in screenshots of you behind your pc, pvping your .... euh ass off :-)
a tl10 heal + bd + para and a monk is dead to even one tank or pe even a slasher char can kill a buffeed apu with a gamma modded weapon they realy dont live that long
Vae Victis
12-09-05, 16:21
@ ICE:
You can perfectly be a 30y old man with a sexlife history to fill a videostore and an amazingly beautyfull gf, and STILL be a male chauvinist sexist pig
*oink oink** :DIm 18 (well 19 soonish :D) and Ive already got enough to fill a videostore ;) (a very small one :))
maybe a store of 50x50.. cm :(
or u guys sound like sexist 35 yr old lonely men who have never had sex... o_O
or not.
Bugs Gunny
12-09-05, 16:24
a tl10 heal + bd + para and a monk is dead to even one tank or pe even a slasher char can kill a buffeed apu with a gamma modded weapon they realy dont live that long
Well, you're talking about one fighter, yet you mention a tl10 + db + para, which implies use of several types of chars.
So, what do you think happens to a tank that's db'ed tl3'ed and parashocked when a hl hit hims?
This is kinda like: "If i hit hulk hogan in the head with an iron rod he'll go down." VS "Yeah, but if hulk hogan hits you in the head with an iron rod, it's off your shoulders."
Lifewaster
12-09-05, 16:55
Heres an idea I dunno might mean a bit less monks at ops.
Add a new hack tool "High security hack tool" give it a high req of Tech Combat.
Change op terminals to only be hackable with the new tools.
umm PPUs are SUPPOSED TO MAKE A HUGE DIFFRENCE they are a primary support class. The you guys seem to be having is the apu/ppu combo is to strong, correct? So don't nerf monks, make other classes better at what they do, increase sniper range/dmg, increase tank's dmg absorbtion, ectra, instead of nerfing all classes to make them more like each other, buff the other classes creating classes that are better at their unique rolls
I guess u are a pure monk. If spies' dmg output would be increased, every non-PPU buffed player could be taken down easily. Tanks with a highly increaed defence could only be taken down by APUs. So what would change???
I think, there would be more persons refusing to pvp without a PPU, as they were afraid of being shot down by a sniper or meeting a tank, eating shitloads of damage. So every APU on every server would be running around with a PPU (as nearly everyone of them already does) a killing all non-buffed people. And if they are buffed, the APU simply debuffs. So really PvP would be away, just click-n-hit.
a tl10 heal + bd + para and a monk is dead to even one tank or pe
so u just need a PE+PPU or a Tank+PPU or a Spy+PPU or a mc-tank+PE. hey!!! that are at least 2 player for one!!! strange.... but that must be balanced. :rolleyes:
even a slasher char can kill a buffeed apu with a gamma modded weapon , they realy dont live that long
and how many HLs does a PE/Spy survive and how long does it take a PE/Spy to kill a holy-buffed APU with HH??? There is no relation imo!!!
Heres an idea I dunno might mean a bit less monks at ops.
Add a new hack tool "High security hack tool" give it a high req of Tech Combat.
Change op terminals to only be hackable with the new tools.
That's cool idea, but don't u think, that there would be always people logging from their APU to their OP-haggin Spy and then back??? there would be 1(one) monk less per OP... not that bif difference imo :(
Lifewaster
12-09-05, 23:35
a PE+PPU or a Tank+PPU or a Spy+PPU
...Will all lose vs an APU+PPU
Thats why I see the monk problem just as much Apus fault as ppus .
I'd like to see some different spell introduced for apus to kill ppus with , instead of the current HAB which often is much more devestating in practice vs non-ppus who dont control their own foreign buffs.
For example some form of slow casting insta-kill spell with fairly short range, but takes as long as a res to cast. This would be sufficient to kill any ppu who doesnt leave the area.
edit:
Or else just make HAB only work vs monks.
Asurmen Spec Op
13-09-05, 00:25
everything is ballanced till PPUS come in
tis easy make a ppu only able to cast one of each module
one deflector 1 shelter 1 heal
either the apu gets all buffs n u kick teh shit out the ppu
ppu gets half bufs apu gets half n u have to ajust wepaonry acrodingly
ppu is coward and saves him self n the apu drops like a lil pansy
ALTERNATIVLY
MENTAL OVERLOAD
any psi module used in the radius of a mental overload sanctum incurse radiation damage that atacks through resists localised on the head to body to legs, this buff is cast with apus not ppus n means they cant cast there own modules unles they wana take damage aswell and it should drain psi constantly at a fairly decent rate wich means u will need boosters to keep the sanc running
i just think that would be a interesting mix in the pot
thats all DEFENCIVE modules not offencive or its not fair on other apus fighting
i love seeing all of you complain about PPUs and imbalance
entertains me
ever since i started neocron i havnt had much experience on a fighting class, ive been thiwwys strap on ppu for as long as i can remember. wasnt very good for awhile, then i became decent. and me and thiwwy could kill apu+ppu teams its just a matter of whos better. hell, i remember being on his tank and he was ppuing at an op fight and i took out apus who were buffed. and another thing all of you havn't thought of, if you remove ppus/foreign buffs/para theres always something to counter it. if they remove ppus and foreign buffs completely they have to re-do the leveling caves, MC5 and high leveling places. para is just a way to tick people off, and it isnt that hard to take an antipara or antidamage drug. most pvp videos ive seen, people had their inventory with drugs, and a few in their belts. its just a simple thing called thinking, and dont give me bullshit you cant carry them in your inventory or belt because you need the space. if you cant belt them, open your inventory and take one really quick. i play on the crappiest computer in the world and still can take drugs mid battle
Mystic-Crusader
13-09-05, 08:53
Just make few woc items that r effective against ppus. (or monks in general)
Apus have theres already HAB.
Rc Spys - bring back the spirit mod
Pc Spys - close range tool (like hack tool) but disables the ppus s/d (maybe prims too) Takes 10-20 secs depending on still.
Mc Tanks - Woc Shocker that disables the monks casting arm for 5-10 secs, only able to use the shocker once every 1-2 mins.
Hc Tanks -ensure atm... let me think more.
Pe's could have similar things to the above depending on their choice of combat, but be less effective with them.
Bugs Gunny
13-09-05, 09:02
I'm sure you don't realy play against paraspammers with drugs, cuz then you'd now they give massive drugflash on repeated use, not to mention it's 3k a pop.
I usualy spend more on antidrugs than on my normal drugs.
And yes, it's true. If ppus are removed, and i mean when monks become one kind of hybrid that can rez, the highest level mobs have to be reballanced.
So? How is that? One patch....
It'll be a lot easier and more effective than the three years of ballancing attempts that were done by KK.
I've seen spies, droners, apus and tanks do the chaos caves and swampcaves without ppu or hybrids. You CAN play the game without a ppu. It's just that people are too used to: "hey, buddy come level with me so i have godmode on".
everything is ballanced till PPUS come in
dont u get it ??
thats why the ppu is perfectly balanced, but u gotta change all the other classes ! coz they're crap if they lose vs an apu ppu team !
and spies are weak, u have to change their range so they deal more dmg! and give tanks more resist, so an apu has to cast 8 HLs instead of 5 after he's dmgbed !
goddamn ... :rolleyes:
onero s, plz delete your account ;).
i love seeing all of you complain about PPUs and imbalance
entertains me
coz u started when the ppu was already ig, right ?
so have no clue how the game was before they broke it ...
Original monk
13-09-05, 09:12
hey a post to nerf monks ! ... again
youlle never see this kinda posts around its sumthing diffrent for a change ! ... again
Bugs Gunny
13-09-05, 09:28
Well, there is nothing wrong with apu monks, and even apu hybrids are close to ballanced or ballanced.
It's blessed hybrids and ppus that fuck up the game.
hey a post to nerf monks ! ... again
youlle never see this kinda posts around its sumthing diffrent for a change ! ... again
Because we all know monks are perfectly balanced...
KK have got 3+ years invested in the ridiculous PPU positive feedback loop dead end.
[boost PPU -> boost Mob -> boost weapons -> boost PPU -> repeat]
It's sprawled out like an invasive cancer to affect every aspect of the game so that nothing except total teardown & rebuild from scratch will ever fix it.
Realistically ... can you ever see that happening with the financing and resources KK have at hand ?
:(
Bugs Gunny
13-09-05, 14:02
Well, they have to start doing SOMETHING, since they can no longer keep boosting non-ppu chars and then mobs to follow.
The cap is 127/127 and the only thing that they could still do to increase it, is make a 127/127 pierce-poison-xray mob called "The radiated stinker".
Asurmen Spec Op
13-09-05, 14:30
Just make few woc items that r effective against ppus. (or monks in general)
Apus have theres already HAB.
Rc Spys - bring back the spirit mod
Pc Spys - close range tool (like hack tool) but disables the ppus s/d (maybe prims too) Takes 10-20 secs depending on still.
Mc Tanks - Woc Shocker that disables the monks casting arm for 5-10 secs, only able to use the shocker once every 1-2 mins.
Hc Tanks -ensure atm... let me think more.
Pe's could have similar things to the above depending on their choice of combat, but be less effective with them.
yes, PEs woc should be less effective, since we must get 3times the xp?
About the WoC items:
I would rather not have to level to whatever WoC level, just to combat monks.
WoC is an added extra, not something essential for pvp, which, these items will be.
Just make few woc items that r effective against ppus. (or monks in general)
Apus have theres already HAB.
Rc Spys - bring back the spirit mod
Pc Spys - close range tool (like hack tool) but disables the ppus s/d (maybe prims too) Takes 10-20 secs depending on still.
Mc Tanks - Woc Shocker that disables the monks casting arm for 5-10 secs, only able to use the shocker once every 1-2 mins.
Hc Tanks -ensure atm... let me think more.
Pe's could have similar things to the above depending on their choice of combat, but be less effective with them.
hear hear!
for the H-C tanks also a spirit mod?
Bugs Gunny
13-09-05, 14:57
Here's a simple comparison:
Imagine a formula one race, where all contestants have different engine sizes, compared to weight of car and handling. In the end each one can do different laps at the same average speed.
Now in comes the supercharger and nitrous oxide. Bigger engines get a huge megaboost and start winning all races.
Solution: Make laps longer, put more corners in, add spikes to the wheels of the smaller cars so they can puncture the tires of the big engine ones, add oillsquirters to the medium sized ones and wings on the rest.
The idiots with fiats get a "No Fear" sticker to compensate ......
And nobody ever thought of removing the superchargers and nitrous oxide to create ballance.....
And nobody ever thought of removing the superchargers and nitrous oxide to create ballance.....
As this was a too easy solution.
Better change everything else, as the monocron-fans want -.-
all the people on this post defending ppus have no arguments other then "you noob" or "it makes me laugh" :wtf:
Mechanicus
14-09-05, 00:58
your pvp skillz make me laugh
honistly guys, do you not understand that a well played tank with a ppu can take down a apu with a ppu? Of course frontline classes will benfiit more from ppus. OTHER CLASSES ARE MENT TO AVOID DMG, NOT TO TRY AND TAKE IT. Hence all that kk needs to do is make snipers have a way to bipass somthing like 50% of a ppu's buffs to make their rounds effective.
yes but why is it the tank needs to be well played and the apu doesnt?
not that anyone gives a shit about balance WITH ppus. theres no such thing.
avoid damage ? what exactly is a pistol pe meant for? cant snipe. can barely stealth. it's close combat they are for. and since everyone else in the game has a PPU it makes them useless.
not to mention pvp with a ppu is just retarded. it just drags every fight out until one side brings more people
let me put it this way
bad apu+ppu vs bad tank+ppu- apu wins
ok apu+ppu vs ok tank+ppu-apu wins
Very skilled apu+ppu vs Very skilled Tank+ppu-Tank wins
Why? Because a tank, if aimed correctly can virtualy match an apu for dmg, the thing is you have to aim, apus on the other hand, if you make your shots, your dmg does not really improve as you get better. So if a tank can keep hitting you, and you can keep hitting the tank, the tank will win.
im not sure exactly how thats a defense
any class shouldnt need more skill to kill then any other class.. that isnt balance. but the problem is not the tank w/ ppu vs the apu w/ ppu. its the PPU. fights with both sides having ppus are usually pretty balanced because both sides have the same. a bunch of apus and a ton of ppus. im talking about that a PPU does more effect on a battle then any other class. two good tanks will lose to a below average apu+ppu. all classes should have the capability to be equal in battle to one another.
pretend ppus dont exist.
apu vs spy, tank vs spy, pe vs spy, apu vs pe, tank vs pe, apu vs tank. all classes (setup right) can be perfectly balanced in close combat. then add PPUS. then add one side with a PPU.
not to mention i just dont understand why people want to fight with ppus?? (especially vs ppl without but either way really) are fights more fun when your opponent moves so slow? are fights fun when you can outheal so much damage? are fights fun that are based entirely on who has more PPUS fun?
most response to ppl fighting with a ppu vs without is; get one yourself then! why should one class be so important to the game that everyone is required to have them? not to mention the obvious balance issues even between fighters both with ppus that you claim are designed to be that way.
im not sure why people feel the need to come here and 'defend' monks. everyone can see the problem; people just let the fact that the problem works in their favor blind them. you have it your way and it's been that way for a long time. why dont you go enjoy winning your fights the easy way? theres nothing stopping you. anyone fighting with a ppu obviously doesnt care about proving himself better then someone or earning respect/reputation. winning a fight > good fight
Asurmen Spec Op
14-09-05, 04:01
im not sure exactly how thats a defense
any class shouldnt need more skill to kill then any other class.. that isnt balance. but the problem is not the tank w/ ppu vs the apu w/ ppu. its the PPU. fights with both sides having ppus are usually pretty balanced because both sides have the same. a bunch of apus and a ton of ppus. im talking about that a PPU does more effect on a battle then any other class. two good tanks will lose to a below average apu+ppu. all classes should have the capability to be equal in battle to one another.
pretend ppus dont exist.
apu vs spy, tank vs spy, pe vs spy, apu vs pe, tank vs pe, apu vs tank. all classes (setup right) can be perfectly balanced in close combat. then add PPUS. then add one side with a PPU.
not to mention i just dont understand why people want to fight with ppus?? (especially vs ppl without but either way really) are fights more fun when your opponent moves so slow? are fights fun when you can outheal so much damage? are fights fun that are based entirely on who has more PPUS fun?
most response to ppl fighting with a ppu vs without is; get one yourself then! why should one class be so important to the game that everyone is required to have them? not to mention the obvious balance issues even between fighters both with ppus that you claim are designed to be that way.
im not sure why people feel the need to come here and 'defend' monks. everyone can see the problem; people just let the fact that the problem works in their favor blind them. you have it your way and it's been that way for a long time. why dont you go enjoy winning your fights the easy way? theres nothing stopping you. anyone fighting with a ppu obviously doesnt care about proving himself better then someone or earning respect/reputation. winning a fight > good fight
Its the I want to win mentality, theres nothing more to it then that
Lifewaster
14-09-05, 04:16
Very skilled apu+ppu vs Very skilled Tank+ppu-Tank wins
Thats assuming the ppus are only average....
Put very skilled ppus and voice-coms into those equations and the monk team will still beat the tank team everytime.
No tank weapon in the game can kill a capped ppu with good con , even with db, if you substitute a ppu-ed APU with the same resists , then the only variance after the PPU skill is the 50% malus on S/D ...not enough for the tank to kill him in time.
Dont forget , the better the both PPUs are , heal % S/D % , etc , the more advantageous the APUS antibuff becomes........
not to mention i just dont understand why people want to fight with ppus?? (especially vs ppl without but either way really) are fights more fun when your opponent moves so slow? are fights fun when you can outheal so much damage? are fights fun that are based entirely on who has more PPUS fun?
most response to ppl fighting with a ppu vs without is; get one yourself then! why should one class be so important to the game that everyone is required to have them? not to mention the obvious balance issues even between fighters both with ppus that you claim are designed to be that way.
im not sure why people feel the need to come here and 'defend' monks. everyone can see the problem; people just let the fact that the problem works in their favor blind them. you have it your way and it's been that way for a long time. why dont you go enjoy winning your fights the easy way? theres nothing stopping you. anyone fighting with a ppu obviously doesnt care about proving himself better then someone or earning respect/reputation. winning a fight > good fight
"The ultimate honor is victory." - Ancient Klingon proverb.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.