Neocron 2 Planfile #4 [Archive] - Official Neocron Forum

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Holger Nathrath

31-08-05, 16:23

We have published a new planfile (http://cp.neocron.com/5/planfiles?lang=en&id=142&) on the Neocron 2 homepage.

We hope you enjoy the news, feel free to discuss it here.

msdong

31-08-05, 16:27

What I can tell you is that we’re working on improvements to areas like shadows, physics, collisions and player position updates.

omg,omgomg, please have jumpin VHC pleeeeeeaaaaase

Dargeshaad

31-08-05, 16:28

"Of course this upgrade will be free of charge for all Neocron 2 customers and will be released in several large packages"
Wasn't that the case with NC1->NC2? :lol:

Brammers

31-08-05, 16:30

Very nice plan file!

Considering how badly the current vegetation slows down graphic cards/PC's, will the minimum specs be changed?

Tratos

31-08-05, 16:35

Ermm.....Wow? I am impressed, the new vegetation looks very shiney, i just hope on its implementation its forced on to make people see the shinyness, the new weapon models look really cool also...NC2.1 looks...good O_o if delivered that is, which i really am looking forward to.

Pandore news is very nice, i assume we can begin to request transfers after the 7th of september?

I've just showed the graphics updates to people on FLUX vent... there response..."That looks really good, i think i might come back for that"

.....Still...:eek:

Dribble Joy

31-08-05, 16:36

Dargeshaad

31-08-05, 16:39

Will the veg be forced? Ie. will we be unable to turn it off (I'd like it to be so, as long as the fps loss is acceptable).

Good to see the weapon update finally coming along, that's been in the works for ages...
Hmmmm......forced veg + removal of local list.....now that could be an interesting turn of events

Dribble Joy

31-08-05, 16:45

The grass/shrubbery (SHRUBBERY!!!!) should move when people touch it, so people on a high ground position can see then coming and stuff big rockets in their faces.

Tratos

31-08-05, 16:46

The grass/shrubbery (SHRUBBERY!!!!) should move when people touch it, so people on a high ground position can see then coming and stuff big rockets in their faces.

That would own, hopefully could be done with the physics update?

Physics, could you guys do something about Water + Vehicles = Doom situation with that?

Scanner Darkly

31-08-05, 16:48

That pair of weapon models is truly astounding - even if they have to use less polygons than in the render they look exactly right for the world of 'cron.

Have you tested the performance of the new vegetation? How does it compare to the current veg? I'm with DJ on this one, if the fps loss is minimal/less than current, then it should be always on.

Good job on the pandore transfer and I'm sure the upcoming PVP server will please a lot of people.

Could you elaborate a little by what you mean by the physics update? Will aoe weapons (rockets) throw people up in the air? Will vehicles be able to jump? Just a few ideas that you're working on would be nice...

moshter

31-08-05, 16:52

lmfao for real, remember nc 1 plan file 1 through 10000? never happened!theres nothing but pretty words, and pics for 2 years for me.doy free?nope.zoo? nope.new wepons? nope.player owned stores?nope.I love these nibs that are just joining or have been here for a short time going oooohhhhh ahhhhhhhhhh, neocron going the rite way its soooooooooooo pretty,cant, wont, look away, must see next patch, your soooo uber nc 2.for you beenheads give it some time and wait for the patch and wait and wait and wait some more.then if your not to busy sit real still and then when you cant stand it anymore wait some more.Wont, will not, can not, be excited, yep looks pretty kk,but not holding my breath.hell im not even gonna pretend to think will ever see any of it happen.love the game hate the promises :lol:

Scanner Darkly

31-08-05, 16:55

Castoff

31-08-05, 16:56

Tratos

31-08-05, 17:00

:rolleyes: I am a bit confused here. Don't get me wrong I like the ideas here, however, why is the switch to a PvP server and away, being allowed to take contents of a GoGuardian ?? When we switched to NC 2 we could only bring what was in on our person & in our quick belts less any keys, money & epic items. Sorry, but I find this totally unacceptable. :confused: 8| :eek: :mad: :(

NC1 -> NC2 was to clear the database, give a sort of fresh start, allow the item distribution system to be used, Pandore players have the same stuff as Terra players, this isnt the start of a new changed game its just allowing people to continue playing how they were on the same game because there server is going bye bye.

Its not unfair as they have also suffered the same loss from Venus, its just senseble.

EDIT: For any officials who are around, is it possible to have some more news on the In Development page now that the character transfer trouble have been fixed?

Scanner Darkly

31-08-05, 17:01

I think the intent of the item wipe (excl QB) was to do with the messed up economy, it was an attempt to stop people having so many items. Also Saturn and Pluto were MASSIVE servers, with far more people wanting to transfer to NC2 than there are Pandore players - so the LOGISTICS behind it were prohibiting a full gogo transfer/apartment transfer...

OTOH Pandore is an NC2 server, they have just lost their french speaking server and this is an attempt by KK to minimize the fallout caused by the conversion to a PVP server.

The outcome? Well the international server should have more players, there will be a more or less blank new server, so it's a win win situation if you're playing on Terra like you and me Castoff.

unreal

31-08-05, 17:04

The grass/shrubbery (SHRUBBERY!!!!) should move when people touch it, so people on a high ground position can see then coming and stuff big rockets in their faces.

heh, that makes me think of Jurassic Park 3 where the Velocoraptors are stalking through the grass.

Dargeshaad

31-08-05, 17:05

What will happen with the GM spawned items that people on Pandore has? And what about the fact that you can buy Tiger blood/crescent tabs on Pandore and bring them to Terra?

moshter

31-08-05, 17:05

[ edited ]

Scanner Darkly

31-08-05, 17:13

[ edited ]

I'll let you dig your own hole.
__________________________

Yeah good point on the crescent/TB - that could be very interesting :D

Holger will we see more models as they are finished off on the in development page and are there any (near) future plans to change how factions relate to each other? I think this would make as radical an impact on the quality of the game as all the hard work on content creation that seems to be done atm.

naimex

31-08-05, 17:14

I have only 1 question for this planfile, and I hope it hasn´t been asked before..

The new vegetation you make, will it be nicer to the FPS or can we fear an FPS drop to near null with enabled vegetation, and will the vegetation block the Line of Sight, meaning the vegetation being low enough for you to still see your opponent?

Brammers

31-08-05, 17:15

[ edited ]

FYI I don't think Scanner Darkly is a 12 year old girl.

And perhaps you would state which NC1 promises/weapons they didn't keep. If you can't do that, I sugguest you stand in a corner like a 10 year old boy who always wants the biggest present, and shut the f*** up.

Speedball

31-08-05, 17:17

And what about the fact that you can buy Tiger blood/crescent tabs on Pandore and bring them to Terra?

Drug doesnt work after transfer. From nc1 to nc2 i took 8 slots from my QB for beast... the beast were bugged and i couldn't take them :lol:

Nidhogg

31-08-05, 17:24

Being naughty = investigated account = detected ban evasion = ban.

N

Tratos

31-08-05, 17:24

Drug doesnt work after transfer. From nc1 to nc2 i took 8 slots from my QB for beast... the beast were bugged and i couldn't take them :lol:

Yup, i have an unusable whiteflash and redflash from one of my characters i didnt set up for transfer :p lol

Riddle

31-08-05, 17:28

released in several large packages.
We are aiming to complete this process within the next 2-3 months.

Well that sounds promising. I have payed till around then so I might see these changes ;)

this upgrade will be free of charge

Good.

we will provide a new client that contains all the current patches and upgrades.

A new boxed release??? or just download trial?

What I can tell you is that we’re working on improvements to areas like player position updates.

WOOT!!!! One of my real pet hates shooting someone who isn't there! or being killed by the invisible man (APU as in most cases :rolleyes: )

I'll read it in more detail tonight but its good to get some indication of what the team is working on and although i don't feel vegetation is a real high priority the developments in a more stable client will be welcome! :angel:

Brammers

31-08-05, 17:31

Drug doesnt work after transfer. From nc1 to nc2 i took 8 slots from my QB for beast... the beast were bugged and i couldn't take them :lol:

That reminds me of a bug in Neocron 2 Open Beta, where a transfered character's PSI boosters didn't work. Same thing maybe?

calim

31-08-05, 17:32

Tratos

31-08-05, 17:35

A new boxed release??? or just download trial?

id imagine it would just be a new download version and places the box is going to be released in would also recieve the newer client, i'd like to see this happen often, as downloading shit loads of patches really is annoying after spending hours just to get the client.

Nullvoid

31-08-05, 17:43

Reworking the veg and new models is great, hinting about player position updates potentially sounds like the most important change however. The current warpy laggy state of the game does it no justice whatsoever...I really do hope you guys have found a way to fix it.

edit - I'm assuming the first gun you have displayed is the new model for Wyatt Earp style guns? mmm tasty :cool:

Dribble Joy

31-08-05, 17:45

Sex Nid in his naughty bits.

Is that second weapon a rocket launcher or what?

Nullvoid

31-08-05, 17:49

It looks to me like it's the new shotgun model, and very sexy it is too.

edit- on second thoughts...it does look an awful lot like it should be shoulder mounted so that rules out being a shotgun.

Ryen

31-08-05, 18:02

FUCK YOU!

Seriously, just as I was having fun with Face of Mankind, you throw this in my face. Seriously, NOT COOL KK. WHY DID YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO GO AROUND AND CHANGE?!

giga191

31-08-05, 18:09

i love u KK. had a feeling you weren't just sitting down and twiddling your thumbs all this time

Mr Kot

31-08-05, 18:11

Wooo, i don't know where to start :p

The vegetation thingy... after first reading about it, my first reaction was "what's the point? everyone turns it off anyway" but then DJ suggested removing the ability to turn it off, which would put everyone on an even footing, both PvP and PvM-wise. Considering current full vegetation near the Gravis swamp cave sets my FPS to near zero, i hope they have some way of reducing the load on the processor as well as the gfx card. You don't have to render each blade of grass seperately, would it make any difference if they all shared the same motion?

Now on to a question of carrying stuff from Pandore to wherever. We know that there is a limit on the weight that can be carried. -200kg, then things start dropping. Regardless of this weight limit, there is also an item limit, i.e. a maximum number of non-stackable items that can show up in an inventory before excess baggage is denied.

So, what is this item limit? Anyone? Im sure it was referred to in some ancient NC1 patch notes, but i'm damned if i can find it.

As for the weapon models..... nice, but then the existing models are nice enough. Remember it's not all about the skin, its the weapon itself. You were on the right track with the ion crossbow pistol. New design, new firing mode, new ammo and a whole new skin. Also, will the copbot rifle be making a comeback? (and i mean for players, not just the copbots :p )

Some new mobs would be sexy too. New MOBS, not new names and ranks of existing ones.

LaZyBoY

31-08-05, 18:14

The vegetation looks very sexy and I like the new tree models ^^ . It actually looks like your in a forest.

Tratos

31-08-05, 18:15

i hope plasma cannons are in with the first 10, the black blob looks horrible, lol i hope things like the plasma wave might see there own new model instead of reusing the plasma cannon model since everything is being updated :)

Dribble Joy

31-08-05, 18:27

I don't mind if you change the plasma pistol look, but if you change the Judge sound I will rip your balls off with a spork.

giga191

31-08-05, 18:28

the pics are wyatt earp and termi i'm guessing

Fafhrd

31-08-05, 18:31

Nice graphics there.

But as already stated, most players turn down the gfx details to get better fps.

Please name a reference computer & fps you got with that.

Obsidian X

31-08-05, 18:34

The wastelands look like a whole new zone entirely with that sexy new vegetation. And much sex to the new weapon models too, might give me a reason to play my pistol PE again. :D

Btw, what was that about NPC character models, was Holger hinting they might be changed to NC2 style? :wtf:

Tostino

31-08-05, 18:39

Well i'm happy to see a grafx update, and hopfuly it will also boost FPS or atleast not lower it. I can't wait to see a phisics engine in NC.

Tratos

31-08-05, 18:46

Btw, what was that about NPC character models, was Holger hinting they might be changed to NC2 style? :wtf:

i assume so but in Evolution 2.2 :p

[TgR]KILLER

31-08-05, 18:47

Threads like this get to much posts in to short time to read em all :p

but looks like a nice patch good gfx updates and stuff.. but before that.. i hope 1 of those big patches finally take care of the damned mem leak. new veg and shadows and what not is all cool but even tho i have a 256 meg 6800 GT vid who should be able to run that stuff with ease having 512 mem ( normally enuff ) still cuts my fps down to 1 because it can't load the stuff because of the mem leaks :/

pandore gues a few people will be glad with the transfer rules now they can take anything.. just don't forget the date 7 sep = snapshot date!

Matthew.v.smith

31-08-05, 18:55

KILLER']Threads like this get to much posts in to short time to read em all :p

but looks like a nice patch good gfx updates and stuff.. but before that.. i hope 1 of those big patches finally take care of the damned mem leak. new veg and shadows and what not is all cool but even tho i have a 256 meg 6800 GT vid who should be able to run that stuff with ease having 512 mem ( normally enuff ) still cuts my fps down to 1 because it can't load the stuff because of the mem leaks :/

pandore gues a few people will be glad with the transfer rules now they can take anything.. just don't forget the date 7 sep = snapshot date!

Lol that is the most annoying thing about the Wastes :p
I dont like to turn Veg off because generally it's a nice touch, but as soon as you venture into the long Grass it's 1 Fps with about 3 Max, great fun ¬_¬
Driving with someone in the passenger seat gives call to "why are you driving so slow?" and my embarrased response lol.

Needless to say, i'm excited with this news :D

M.

LiL T

31-08-05, 19:51

Damn guess I'm going to have to save my pennys and get a new comp, Looks impressive, I like the new look of those weapons ^^ can't wait to see this stuff being added.

-FN-

31-08-05, 19:51

Hold onto your panties Grandma, this is gonna be a long damn post.

Our main focus currently lies on improving the graphics and further developing the graphics engine.
I don't mean to be telling you guys how to do your job, but that's somewhat asinine. You need to be working on network performance and efficiency, character/item/vehicle position updates, synchronizing/login issues, inventory fuck-up on login/death... A shiny, revamped graphics engine will mean shit to the dozen people off the top of my head who have already cancelled due to netcode issues and neither with the other dozen people who I can think of that are on the edge of quitting. What planet are you on that makes you think you need a cutting edge graphic engine that requires an Athlon 5103123+ and a GeForce 9,000,000 FXGT to be successful? Stop drinking. Go to AA Meetings. And realize that games with sub-par graphics are immensly successful because of game content, game size, and game customization.

Of course this upgrade will be free of charge for all Neocron 2 customers and will be released in several large packages. We are aiming to complete this process within the next 2-3 months.
I'll believe it when I see it. The DoY Expansion was supposed to be free in Q1/2003 too :rolleyes:

Now on to what is being worked on: as we have learned to be cautious with announcements in the past, I can’t reveal too much about the changes to the engine.
That's because clueless administrative and business employees make game decisions and then dictate them to their developers instead of talking to them to figure what's realistic (http://www.tomshardware.com/column/20050813/index.html). Talk to your Dev (or Devs these days?) and don't promise a bunch of bullshit with a bunch of shiny pictures, only to not deliver. Nobody wants that and as evidence of half of MJS's plan files, it's a pretty large problem within KK. We're still waiting on half of the original plan file as it is, but I digress...

What I can tell you is that we’re working on improvements to areas like shadows, physics, collisions and player position updates.
Shadows will be cool. I hope you guys don't touch the physics of the vehicles because as of the last patch, you have them near perfect (minus the location update issue when you jump off it). Please make it so vehicles can drive up on non-terrain surfaces (i.e. that bridge in Devereaux Fortress Zone, things of that nature). Player position updates I've already mentioned - the Netcode needs more overhauling than the graphics code and you know it.

Our graphics department has completely reworked or replaced the complete Neocron vegetation.

- Wastelands Upgrade : Vegetation can be turned off: 99% of the population will TURN OFF VEGETATION FOR COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE which cuts out a large portion of what makes Neocron look beautiful. It will continue to get mediocre graphic reviews if this is not changed. Make three buttons, Low, Medium, and High for Vegetation. Do not allow it to be turned off
I must re-iterate that. If vegetation will still be able to be turned off, YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME. I hope that gets through your heads.

The weapons currently available in Neocron are admittedly from "another time". Their look is consequently somewhat stale. But we will bring an end to this soon!
As long as we can still see them on players as a side-arm, I'll be happy. Newer, shinier, more polys, sure. Whatever. It's funny that mundane 'replacements' are more important than begged for 'implementations' *cough* PlayerShops *cough*

Some of you will certainly miss NPC- respectively player models in this listing. There is only so much we can do in one package, therefore this will come at a later time, in a future package.
And again, Player Customization in Neocron is, for lack of a better word, pathetic. Games that are many -years- older than NC have better character customization. You'll spend 2-3 months adding vegetation that most people will turn off, replacing models that WORK perfectly fine... but you won't double the number of character models/skins or add the Accessories like sunglasses, cigarettes, scars, etc that were in the original plan files. That's just sad. Every new player I've brought to the game in the past few months, and I'm not kidding, every, single, one - has said "That's it? That's all the faces/shirts/pants I get to choose from?". I'm sorry, but who ever is guiding your game direction decisions is pretty clueless to the way the community's perception is.

You'd rather alienate a portion of the population by increasing graphics to a level their PCs can't handle. Look at older games like EQ and AO, which are still vastly more successful than Neocron, but have old engines. They're doing FINE because they have character/world customization flowing out of their ears.

You'd rather make a gun shiny and new. Only a portion of the players will even appreciate that. Pistol Users will most likely only appreciate the pistols, Rifle users the rifles, etc.

*deep breath*

You choose to focus on details that do not improve the community, but rather small facets of detail here and there. If you increased the number of player models/skins, added a "Plastic Surgury" shop which cost millions, added aesthetic accessories, and introduced new Powerarmor so everyone didn't look like the same four people when they're capped, you would immediately:

A) Effect *everyone* in-game and *every* new player.
B) Add a money sink that would be well worth it to a large number of players.
C) Would've actually fulfilled Point 1.9 (http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NeoContent&file=index&pageID=190) of the orginal plan file.

Or new Mobs with new models? Everyone hunts mobs, that would effect everyone. Perhaps 1 or 2 new OPs to fight at? Maybe a *gasp* pro-city located Lab? You guys didn't mention the Trophy System in a Plan file - you just did it - and it's turned out to be a huge success which (hopefully) will be easily expandable in the future! That sort of 'big-picture' game improvement, that improves the way people spend time in-game, or actually gets them to log in in general, is the point of view you need to be taking. New bushes and trees that people will A) turn off or B) drop framerates, will not make people log in. Shiny new models to old guns will not make people log in.

Ok, enough of that. Gameplay and Community wide additions, not overhauls, that are positive in the realm of immersing the player in the game world are what is needed. Customization, Customization, CUSTOMIZATION. That's where you pick up players.

PvP Server
Ok, I don't even have the energy for this one. Just mark my words, the "PvP server" will be the death of either Neocron or the most populated server, Terra. KK will split the community, taking the small handful of Hardcore PvPers from Terra to Neptune, and then Terra will wither and die due to lack of motivated PvPers and Neptune will die due to lack of population. Write that down.

Instead of finding a constructive way to make PvP flourish on existing servers by, oh, I don't know, working on the Soullight/Sympathy System, creating a universal Neofrag players can enter from their respective cities, or about a dozen other constructive ideas that have passed through these forums, you're making a new server. The amount of wasted time and resources on this new server... for what? So you can remove a few safe zones and let people grief eachother over zone lines to their heart's content? :rolleyes:

Have any of KK's decision makers had basic college classes on types of techological innovation? Do you know the difference between Disruptive & Sustaining (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A//www.knowledge-roundtable.com/app/content/knowledgesource/item/331&ei=59wVQ_rVBILO-QHm59X6DQ) Technology? The introduction of the PvP server instead of creating PvP outlets in the exisiting world, points the ol' answer machine to a big fat NO.

After playing Neocron since August of 2002 (I found my LJ Post (http://www.livejournal.com/users/fn/143548.html) about it recently, heh), I've learned to be a realist when it comes to NC, KK, and overall gaming. Plan file writers are just idealists. I won't list everything, but a lot of main points with past plan files:

No vet will forget the "DoY for Free in Q1/2003 (http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NeoContent&file=index&pageID=54)" plan files.
The Point: CEOs make game direction decisions and pretty plan files, but they don't really run the show. They just air the commercials in between. The Devs run the show and make shit happen. I'll believe things in a Plan file when I see the corresponding patch.

"Snow, Playershops, etc (http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NeoContent&file=index&pageID=190)" - Plan File 007 that made every NC1 player drool. Yet huge chunks of it are missing. KK realigned all the factions and changed item distribution, but gave no player shops to facilitate it. They 'updated' models for characters but lost the Cyberpunk touch with most of them. WoC was introduced and here we are ONE YEAR later, with 2 WoC items.
The Point: Plan Files can be used as hooks to keep people who are losing interest attached to the game. This patch file backed up the above point. Hardcore.

Can't forget Theme Weeks (http://cp.neocron.com/5/planfiles?id=45&). After one successful one, they slowed down. Now the forums are gone and there's not a mention of them anymore. Too bad it was one of the BEST ideas that KK had and even implemented.
The Point: The best ideas, implemented or not, are only useful when they're persistantly followed through upon.

Need I remind anyone of the double barrel pistol shotgun or the Combat Quad images we drooled over in December of last year?
The Point: Don't get your hopes up with these new images - believe them when you see them in-game.

In Holger's Plan File #3, they stated that Item Tracking, Outfitter, PvP Server, and Neocronicle were coming out within 3 Weeks. 50% successrate on that one (Rokkwear & Neocronicle.com). To my knowledge item tracking is not a usable tool by GMs yet (I'll lose an expensive item later today to prove/disprove this) and the PvP server rules, as of this plan file will be discussed on the forums... even tho two plan files ago most of the rules were laid out O_o
The Point: Timelines in plan files are such rough guides, they can be off by months, even years.

Epic Runs were released on March 26, 2003. Pro-City had real ones, Anti-City had temp ones stating "These substitute runs will be replaced with the complete epic runs for these factions with the Dome of York expansion. This solution is required to prevent conflicts with the current storyline." DoY Came out in September of 2004.
The Point: This clearly illustrates that nobody had any clue how big of a task they were undertaking, regardless of what fluff came out in the plan file. 18 Months with no anti-epics because KK, at the time, thought they'd have them out soon after.

More recently, "the URL www.no-more-elves.com will not remain a simple redirect towards www.neocron.com for long" - Um, newsflash. Yes it will. How about that In-Development webpage? Or was that quietly swept under the rug with Theme Weeks.
The Point: Plan Files are *still* just fluff to keep people anticipating the pipedreams that may or may not happen.

In conclusion, I hate plan files. I love patches. Keep up the good work devs and make what you can happen, happen. And I'm sorry when the community spits at you because realistic goals were not set for you. I'm sorry for how negative this post has come out, but hey, it's just a plan file, not a patch - so nothing in reality has changed. I just don't like being led on. I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, but for you players out there who get as irate as I do when I see Plan Files, just realize that progess is still there, even if it's not at the 'published rate'.

And if you read this whole thing, realize you could've gotten at least half a dozen trophies by now :p

LaZyBoY

31-08-05, 19:57

FN is right the pvp server will spread the server populations even more :\

LiL T

31-08-05, 20:07

FN is right the pvp server will spread the server populations even more :\

Nah it will bring certain types of players back, that and the graphics to both international servers, heh carebear types might find it more bearable on terra :)

Dargeshaad

31-08-05, 20:10

FN is right the pvp server will spread the server populations even more :\
Quite frankly I think the PvP server will be a huge failure. From those I speak with close to noone has any intention of moving over, mostly because they fear it'll just be a server ruled by apu/ppu teams....just like it is on the current servers. And that's how I feel too, sure I might lvl a char up there very slowly when I'm bored and there's nothing to do on the other servers, but it will be far from my primary server

Tratos

31-08-05, 20:11

I don't mean to be telling you guys how to do your job, but that's somewhat asinine. You need to be working on network performance and efficiency, character/item/vehicle position updates, synchronizing/login issues, inventory fuck-up on login/death...

What I can tell you is that we’re working on improvements to areas like shadows, physics, collisions and player position updates.

Lets see, so from that segment of your post thats;
"character/item/vehicle position updates" - Check.

And if i remeber correctly theres one of KKs whole 3 coders currently working on FREs, performance issues and synchronizing/login issues regardless of what the rest of the dev team is up to.

Also, for those who need to be reminded of this all the time The art department do art and this update is primarily art both 2d and 3d, do you expect the art dep to sit and do fuck all burning up KKs cash when they could be doing things like this?

-FN-

31-08-05, 20:13

Quite frankly I think the PvP server will be a huge failure. From those I speak with close to noone has any intention of moving over, mostly because they fear it'll just be a server ruled by apu/ppu teams....just like it is on the current servers.
The PvP Server might be a huge success if they remove all the PPU Class :P

And if i remeber correctly theres one of KKs whole 3 coders currently working on FREs, performance issues and synchronizing/login issues regardless of what the rest of the dev team is up to.
A plan file is more of a guideline of the main features that they're working on to progress the game. Bugfixes, game issues, etc should be assumed that they're always being worked on. With that in mind, I really don't feel that there should've been a Plan File at all. Patches with bugfixes, as they've been doing, is their best course. But if they *needed* a Plan File, Character Customization should've been their focus, not the things I mentioned for the reasons I mentioned.

Also, for those who need to be reminded of this all the time The art department do art and this update is primarily art both 2d and 3d, do you expect the art dep to sit and do fuck all burning up KKs cash when they could be doing things like this?
Every skin, every model, every piece of "art" they make, then has to be injected into the game by a coder. End result, they could've just as easily done Player Skins/Models/Accessories.

SonGoku

31-08-05, 20:25

MrTrip

31-08-05, 20:45

Wow...I have to agree with FN's post...like completely.

And yes, I will believe the free to all NC2 users when I see it...

Neocron 3 is probably on its way now....see you all there in 07 :rolleyes:

Tostino

31-08-05, 20:53

Every skin, every model, every piece of "art" they make, then has to be injected into the game by a coder. End result, they could've just as easily done Player Skins/Models/Accessories.
Ok I agree with this, but I also think that the weapons did need an update aswell. But if they are gona update then they better do them all with in a month or so. Nothing looks worse then having this one uber looking gun next to somthing like a gatling cannon.

Tratos

31-08-05, 20:59

i know its hopeless, but its nice to have hope :( lol

giga191

31-08-05, 21:03

plz don't waste time making a pvp server. I'm all for PvP, but it's fine as it is and it's not hard to come by

Dirus

31-08-05, 21:21

Good to see the weapon update finally coming along, that's been in the works for ages...

If you're reffering to the balancing and TL changes, that has nothing to do with anything in the plan file.

Cpl Hicks

31-08-05, 21:28

This looks very nice...
I am pleased to see that neocron is getting updated more and more often :)
U guys are really doing awesome work :) Anyways, this the way it is, a MMO has to be kept updated the whole time, otherwise the pop goes down :)

This planfile is really coming in handy, as it is really "refreshing" neocron by its arrival.

Opar

31-08-05, 21:41

Depending on how 'NC2 EVOL 2.1' goes, i'll see about coming back.

This looks interesting...

Selendor

31-08-05, 21:53

Best post I've read here in ages up there by -FN-, I was going to respond but he mostly nailed it all. Especially the part about the pvp server. Graphics updates look nice, but like everyone has said, make the vegetation forced (and processor efficient for op wars) otherwise its a complete waste of time.

And as for saying that graphics departments have to be doing something while KK's 2+ coders work...well here is something I don't understand:

Since NC2 BETA, the community wanted:
- Original or revamped RPOS
- Original or revamped Player Models (and animations)

In NC2.1 we will be getting:
- Revamped Vegetation
- Revamped Weapons Models

....... I just don't get that at all. :(

As for the schedule, well given the 3 month estimate, that means 2006. I mean, if you are going to write a plan file with an undertermined timescale in order to keep people from cancelling (since its September and back to college time), then you should have copy/pasted this:

- Player Lag / Netcode is top priority
- Player Models and Rpos being revamped
- New City Ops and hacknet rules being implemented
- Pro and Anti City forward command posts being added
- New singular safe zones being made in both cities, all other hqs will be dangerous. Security Levels in all city zones being reviewed.
- PvP server developer resource being put back into the main servers instead, focusing on the current game's evolution.

Disturbed21

31-08-05, 22:02

*agrees completely with FN* :( unfortunately.

It's not that the ideas in the Planfiles are bad, but from my pov, server stabilzation and Playershops should be the primary things they are doing. The upgrading of weapon skins and vegatation updates are nice additions, but....comeon, I haven't been able to login without inventory, 50/80, or some other kind of bugs in 5 flippin' months.

*sigh* I'll shut up about that for now since they've had 1 full person working on that for several months now:rolleyes:

I really don't see why you guys are so set on making Pandore a PvP server.

Right now the highest pop % I've seen on Terra is 23%, with Pandore at 1%. Those are such low numbers it's really sad :(
So, they implement a PvP server and Terras pop will drop and Pandores will rise. Whoop dee doo.

It's just going to wind up dividing the all ready small community between 2 servers. I don't see Pandore rising much above 10% at its peak. So, whats the point of playing on a PvP server that's not very populated?
Then whats going to be the point of playing on Terra if it peaks out at >15% or so when Pandore goes live? It's already difficult to find fights now at 23% as it is...

Honestly, how many ppl do you really think are going to comeback just for a PvP server? :rolleyes: I'm sure some ppl will comeback for a month or so; then get bored and leave again. Most of the ppl I know that left, left because of everything but a lack of a PvP server :rolleyes:

It would've worked and been a great addition at NC's peak, but not now.
Please rethink this idea kk. Drop the idea and put your resources towards the existing servers and making them more stable, more populated, with more content.

For all those ppl that really want the PvP server - why not just remove the safezones on Terra and get rid of most of the guards? Hell, its a PvP game, don't see why there needs to be a PvP server, all servers should be....PvP....

Dribble Joy

31-08-05, 22:24

Frankly I think FN missed a lot of points and took a somewhat one sided and constricted view overall, but one thing in particular.

I must re-iterate that. If vegetation will still be able to be turned off, YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME. I hope that gets through your heads.
No, they are not. Amoungst other reasons, if only for a sake of completeness.

If you're reffering to the balancing and TL changes, that has nothing to do with anything in the plan file.
I meant the texture/model update.

Jake Cutter

31-08-05, 22:26

Interesting about some of the physics being reworked.

Have you guys heard of the "Physics Processing Unit"--PPU :lol: being developed by a company called Ageia? It's supposed to do for game physics what GPUs did for 3D graphics...offload the CPU of all those calculations. http://www.ageia.com/technology.html

Wishful thinking, I know...and we all need another $250+ card in our computers.

Nice changes ahead for us. Thank you.

Regards,
Jake Cutter

Scanner Darkly

31-08-05, 22:26

While I like the look of the updates and additions mentioned in the plan file, I have to agree to an extent with FN.

Adding functionality/features and customisation should be KK's number 1 priority.

If player shops won't ever be added I'm sure we'd all like to know why. OF course that had never been stated by any KK employee, but knowing that it has been moved to the distant future and may thus never be added is not comforting.

Accessories and other RP items shouldnt be that hard to add and yet we hear nothing about this.

While we appreciate hearing from the captain at the helm of the company, it would sometimes be nice to hear from the actual coders and art folks. Would a few minutes on these boards, or more practicably, on the in development page, by these people informing us as to what they're actually working on and how finished it is, be just a pipe dream?

EDIT: if the new vegetation throttles frame rates in the similar way that it currently does, how about this (slighly madcap) option:

FORCE vegetation in all NON WARZONES
ALLOW vegetation off in WARZONES

Dribble Joy

31-08-05, 22:29

Filtered.

-FN-

31-08-05, 23:09

Honestly, how many ppl do you really think are going to comeback just for a PvP server?
Let's say even 100 people came back. That's a 10% increase during the PEAK times. I still don't see the need/urge/desire for a PvP server when gameplay changes could just make it work better on the existing servers. Aside from "I want a PvP server" posts from people like Xylaz and LiL T... why not just take some of the input from these "Hardcore PvPers" and comprimise on the existing servers?

NC's pride has always been an FPS combat system in an MMORPG setting. Now we're just removing the FPS combat thrill from the MMORPG setting and putting it on another server. Congratulations, you just pulled a World of Warcaft division between PvE and PvP servers. Instead of continuing to be the pioneer of FPS-meets-RPG, we just give up and make two servers with different rules. Nice.

@ Scanner & DJ

Perhaps there's a middle ground then. Zone-based vegetation preferences on the User-end doesn't sound very 'pretty' of a techincal solution. How about just adding the Vegetation, force it to be on, but be very mindful of OP areas at the design level. As long as people can turn vegetation off, it will be for most players. From a developer, a person who has pride in their product because they made it and doesn't care about revenue, I'd agree DJ that it adds to the "completeness" - but shouldn't the bigger picture here be community population and revenue? New vegetation, that will be turned off by most players, won't do that.

I wouldn't post these long, drawn-out criticisms if I didn't truly care about Neocron's future, and indirectly, KKs :(

vashtyphoon78

31-08-05, 23:13

mechsicans...mechsicans....mechsicans....I WANT MECHS!!!!!!!!!!!

*Melee mech 4tw*

and floating ops!!!!!!!!

(these both will never happen but i love the trees and new weapon graphics...imagine how a rhinos gonna look after this complete update...)

IceStorm

31-08-05, 23:15

No, they are not. Amoungst other reasons, if only for a sake of completeness.For the sake of "completeness" other fixes are being delayed to add a feature no one will use? I don't PvP at all, and I leave vegetation turned OFF. Yes, new textures for the static vegetation is nice, but modifying any of the dynamic stuff? Why waste the time?

And if they're going to FORCE vegetation, at least move our EYES TO OUR HEADS. Being chest-deep in vegetation and being unable to see what's going on is stupid for an FPS.

The models shown in the .plan file are for a pistol and a shotgun. Other than the Terminator and a single Wyatt user, how many people use the pistols and shotguns? 2? 3? Why not show a model for the weapons we all use - assault rifle, laser rifle, uzi, or plasma cannon. That also begs the question - why waste time on the weapons we don't care about? And what about the reigning class that HAS NO WEAPON MODELS at all?

FN's right in that what would be useful gets pushed by the wayside. First thing I thought was, "Cool. .planfile". After I read it? "Vegetation!?!?!?"

Koshinn

31-08-05, 23:58

Anyway so looking at the picture
http://entry.neocron.com/planfile4/w2.jpg

It's a great model, but look how small the barrel length is! Bullpup designs will be more prevalent in the future I believe... here's something I did in photoshop.. took an hour I think? x.x

This is, of course, if you don't stick the magazine into the pistol grip like modern pistols... which works better I think, but keeping the theme of seperate magazine port and grip...

LiL T

01-09-05, 00:00

I tend to disagree with 90% of what gets said in these types of thread... some people are just never happy :(

Force vegetation !! what are you people smoking .. well if that were so, then say good bye to PVP outdoors, the option to turn off is there for a reason and thats because it lags even new comps.

No, they are not. Amoungst other reasons, if only for a sake of completeness.

Yes exactly and maybe be ready for when computers get faster and can handle it, or for nice screenshots etc

Nidhogg

01-09-05, 00:01

Small problem, the mag gets in the way of your hand on the grip. ;)

N

Koshinn

01-09-05, 00:03

Small problem, the mag gets in the way of your hand on the grip. ;)

N

The only thing behind a grim would be the thumb area of your hand, but there's space for that.

Jipz

01-09-05, 00:10

http://entry.neocron.com/planfile4/w4.jpg

I <3 the design of the new rifle
maybe the new terminator ;)

Nidhogg

01-09-05, 00:13

The only thing behind a grim would be the thumb area of your hand, but there's space for that.
Your wrist and forearm need to be on a direct line down the barrel and toward the target but the mag would get in the way. You'd have to bend your wrist around it and as soon as you squeezed off a shot you'd probably break your wrist. ;)

N

Tratos

01-09-05, 00:15

Force vegetation !! what are you people smoking .. well if that were so, then say good bye to PVP outdoors, the option to turn off is there for a reason and thats because it lags even new comps.

That why everyone who suggested it to be forced on also said only if it didnt nuke FPS :P

Speedball

01-09-05, 00:33

And what about the reigning class that HAS NO WEAPON MODELS at all?

No weapon model ? who ?

Tratos

01-09-05, 00:34

No weapon model ? who ?

Monks

[TgR]KILLER

01-09-05, 00:34

No weapon model ? who ?

i gues he's aiming @ hacknet spies.. can't think off another :)

Monks

wtf monks ? they got spells they put spells in their glove thingy they don't have a weapon as such and spells do a have "model"

Speedball

01-09-05, 00:36

If he talk about monks, its very stupid because they have no weapon... maybe we shall see the gauntlet... why not ? :p
Haknet... herm no idea about it never been in. :p

Tratos

01-09-05, 00:37

The phrase "reigning class" sort of took me to monks :rolleyes:

Dargeshaad

01-09-05, 00:39

The phrase "reigning class" sort of took me to monks :rolleyes:
Haha I was thinking of the exact same thing but couldn't be arsed to write it :lol:

Dirus

01-09-05, 00:44

KILLER']i gues he's aiming @ hacknet spies.. can't think off another :)

Haven't been in Hacknet in a while have you?

Dribble Joy

01-09-05, 00:56

I tend to disagree with 90% of what gets said in these types of thread... some people are just never happy :(

Force vegetation !! what are you people smoking .. well if that were so, then say good bye to PVP outdoors, the option to turn off is there for a reason and thats because it lags even new comps.
Your missing the point.

The wish for veg to be forced on is clearly only under the condition that the performance issues with it are addressed.

Asurmen Spec Op

01-09-05, 01:14

For the sake of "completeness" other fixes are being delayed to add a feature no one will use? I don't PvP at all, and I leave vegetation turned OFF. Yes, new textures for the static vegetation is nice, but modifying any of the dynamic stuff? Why waste the time?

And if they're going to FORCE vegetation, at least move our EYES TO OUR HEADS. Being chest-deep in vegetation and being unable to see what's going on is stupid for an FPS.

The models shown in the .plan file are for a pistol and a shotgun. Other than the Terminator and a single Wyatt user, how many people use the pistols and shotguns? 2? 3? Why not show a model for the weapons we all use - assault rifle, laser rifle, uzi, or plasma cannon. That also begs the question - why waste time on the weapons we don't care about? And what about the reigning class that HAS NO WEAPON MODELS at all?

FN's right in that what would be useful gets pushed by the wayside. First thing I thought was, "Cool. .planfile". After I read it? "Vegetation!?!?!?"
fuck monks?

Xylaz

01-09-05, 01:33

i'm beggining to think all of this is just a waste of my time...

planfiles looks like uhm planfiles... i saw them before several times and judging from past experience it has nothing to do with this game at all...

the only thing which might be worth waiting for its a pvp server, assuming it will come (at all) with some reasonable set of rules...

i'm just waiting, swallowing all KK excuses about the pvp server for 3 months already... we'll see

Asurmen Spec Op

01-09-05, 01:35

eprodigy

01-09-05, 01:36

i agree with FN on most things here and they said they were going to have to give up on things like playershops etc for now because of bigger issues.. well redoing some weapon models is not more important then player shops. useless vegetation isnt more important then player shops. and player shops is just an example; there's a lot of other more 'important' things... i think anyway.

i wholely agree that the goal should be combining the FPS with the (MMO)RPG and creating a solid/deep world, not a EQ server and a CS server.
but if it has to exist i think the PVP server could do OK (meaning i might play on it ;)) though if they make some neccesary changes. Like no LE, no PPUs/ppu hybrids (involve simply removing spells), epic weapons droppable (mabye BP'able though), etc that i cant remember atm.

Xiphias

01-09-05, 01:40

sounds like a big promise, such promises from Reakktor are usually broken... if you can pull this off, and increases the server populations by a factor of 10, I would consider coming back. I suppose what am trying to say is Good luck :)

eprodigy

01-09-05, 01:40

giga191

01-09-05, 01:58

Koshinn

01-09-05, 02:02

Your wrist and forearm need to be on a direct line down the barrel and toward the target but the mag would get in the way. You'd have to bend your wrist around it and as soon as you squeezed off a shot you'd probably break your wrist. ;)

N

Yeah I was thinking about that and putting a retractable stock on the gun as well but I just got lazy.. lol. Either that or a forward grip. Bullpups work better on rifles and smgs than automatic pistols. I still think the magazine should be in the pistol grip.

IceStorm

01-09-05, 02:45

If he talk about monks, its very stupid because they have no weapon...That was the point.

Scanner Darkly

01-09-05, 03:03

That was the point.

Yep I thought it was a jest too :)

Xylaz

01-09-05, 08:34

Honestly, I was thinking of giving you a real answer, but itd be easier to convince me that monks rule then for you to stop bitching

Actually, you just did it. You can be proud of yourself.

Koshinn

01-09-05, 09:22

It's a great model, but look how small the barrel length is! Bullpup designs will be more prevalent in the future I believe... here's something I did in photoshop.. took an hour I think? x.x

This is, of course, if you don't stick the magazine into the pistol grip like modern pistols... which works better I think, but keeping the theme of seperate magazine port and grip...

Quoting myself is lame tbh.

But anyway, photoshopping that gun wasn't really worth it because I knew beforehand what Nidd was saying which is why I wrote the above when I posted the picture.

I was assuming it's the replacement model for the SMG, but that doesn't make sense anymore. You'd definately want a stock for something that's full auto (glok 18Cs are good examples of why) if you want a semblance of accuracy. Also the caliber of the ammunition seems very big in the picture. The gun also looks like it uses a blowback system for semi-automatic fire. Notice the hammer and what appears to be a slide... kind of? Also notice the small ammount of ammo? Notice that the barrel length is half the length of the gun... which is very bad. That would give crappy accuracy.

This makes me believe now that it's the colt/wyatt replacement. If that's true, the current location of the magazine would be hard to reload... you'd have to grab it by like 1/2 an inch of space at the bottom of the magazine to reload. With most pistols you slide it into the grip so that, depending on preference, around half the magazine is into the gun before you let go if it and just slam it in, ensuring it properly aligns. Even with weapons such as the M16 there is a noticable "guide" before the magazine actually contacts the port.

Btw, I think the 2nd weapon is the grenade launcher, not a shotgun like other people think. Look at the ammo, how it has a bullet-like appearance... nothing like a shotgun shell. Notice the lack of a pistol grip, instead having what appears to be a shoulder mount and a grip for holding it from the top (not carrying it put holding it). Also notice the blue transparent screen. It appears to be an aiming mechanism... which would have to be aligned with an eye. Which means you'd hold this weapon on your left shoulder by placing your left hand under the carrying handle and using your right hand to somehow fire it. The bottom cylinder does indeed look like a pump for a shotgun, but it could also be a storage area for grenades if the A&W box isn't a magazine, like how shotgun shells are stored under the barrel. It could also be a gas system for automatic fire.

So in conclusion... my photoshop was nice at least, right?

Ratboy

01-09-05, 13:59

Hey Guys,

the first one is the normal Pistol replacement.
the other one is the Rocket Launcher replacement.

i hope that cleared things up a bit :)

Tratos

01-09-05, 14:07

Hey Guys,

the first one is the normal Pistol replacement.
the other one is the Rocket Launcher replacement.

i hope that cleared things up a bit :)

Interesting O_o so this is the new look Moonstriker?

Brammers

01-09-05, 14:24

I don't know why, but the rocket launcher looks a little small.

Thats the one thing I like about tank weapons. Big weapons, with big firepower for dealing with big targets. (Or in some cases total obliteration of small targets!)

Riddle

01-09-05, 14:25

Well after reading the whole of FN's epic post ( yes i read it all! ).

I have to say when you filter out the moans :p he offers on the whole valid and constructive criticism, whilst criticism can sometimes be hard to take when its constructive you must take it on board.
The community offers amongst all the banter,flames and trolling often some insightfull recommendations on driving this game forward.

I have to agree the PvP server will probably do more harm than good to server pops on the main servers and will only please a small part of the hard core community.

We need the server stabalisation indicated in the plan file as a must! FRE/login issues are not acceptable if this game is to move forward and gather more players.

Item distribution from FSM's is miserably difficult with the current server pops and NO player shops in the foreseeable future to fill the gap.

Enhancing the player experience through offering extra player models, clothes, armour , face etc. Would involve probably less work than all the vegetation but would offer greater diversity in player looks, customisation options a plenty would be welcome and enjoyed by all.

Product lifecycle tends to worry me as NC has been on the go for several years gaining some seriously negative feedback from the gaming community, enhancing vegetation and some gun models will not draw them to this game.

I am ever the optimist and welcome the planfile as I have welcomed them before but lets see this one pulled out of the bag! and maybe some more emphasise on what the community believe would make this game better, for its us who spend all the time in it :D

naimex

01-09-05, 14:34

Still no answer to my question?

landofcake

01-09-05, 14:35

All looking good ... can't wait :D

RogerRamjet

01-09-05, 14:36

Are you back Jeremy?

Ratboy

01-09-05, 15:14

Still no answer to my question?

Well - we are working on a lot of things at this time. The Terrain, the improvements on a visual and a performance level. Its impossible to tell you at this point how much the new terrain will slow down (or raise) the performance. It will take some more time till we can give you numbers. But the way things look at this time the new Terrain will not slow you down to 0 frames :)

Tratos

01-09-05, 15:29

Good new Ratboy, i hope it allows maximum FPS when it dones :p since you are here do you know if the new veg will be forced on?

Scanner Darkly

01-09-05, 16:36

Ratboy what's the word on player shops and what were the problems that caused that to be delayed?

That is if you're allowed to say. For all I know it's top secret.

naimex

01-09-05, 16:53

Well - we are working on a lot of things at this time. The Terrain, the improvements on a visual and a performance level. Its impossible to tell you at this point how much the new terrain will slow down (or raise) the performance. It will take some more time till we can give you numbers. But the way things look at this time the new Terrain will not slow you down to 0 frames :)

Thank you :)

Ratboy

01-09-05, 16:58

Player Shops: I think another .Plan-File already told you whats going to happen.
Forced Vegetation: The new Veg. is forced - you will not be able to use the old one anymore. It´s not only tree replacement - its much more.
But you will be able to scale the itensity. What exactly will be scaleable is not decided yet.

msdong

01-09-05, 17:16

hmm rocket launcher for the second gun ?? hmm looks more like a new granade launcher with that small shells.
how about having an ingame shot ? :angel:

Safunte

01-09-05, 17:55

"Our main focus currently lies on improving the graphics and further developing the graphics engine"

Improving the graphics usually goes hand in hand with lowering frames, alot of people I know are running on lower-end computers and turn down every option possible to run at 25 FPS max. Perhpas this further developing of the graphics engine = better frames, so that they equal eachother out.
And just because I hate to be a nay sayer, I think its a good thing that neocron is improving its graphics for it will help it compete with the graphics of new and future games.

If vegetation is to be forced to the point where it will make a noticable difference in pvp or pve, a few logical issues should be worked out. For instance, many trees in game do not block shots, and you can target enemies through said trees. Also, if the vegetation is this prevalent, I would suggest all areas with thick vegetation to affect the local list the same as dungeons affect your minimap... to say that no information is available, or some other error messege, causing it to be pointless. (this would not create an inconvenience in TH and other areas of high populous where a local list is used for purposes other than pvp)

Safunte

01-09-05, 18:30

After playing Neocron since August of 2002 (I found my LJ Post (http://www.livejournal.com/users/fn/143548.html) about it recently, heh), I've learned to be a realist when it comes to NC, KK, and overall gaming. Plan file writers are just idealists. I won't list everything, but a lot of main points with past plan files:

Personally, I have been playing for ... too many years, and recently I have not had enough +++==SUCCESSFUL==+++ logins to keep me playing the game in the past week or two. I get on the computer, try to login about 20 times, with constant bugs, then log off and say goodbye to everyone on teamspeak so that I go play another game. Your pos ideas that are never implemented offend me just like their attempt to keep me paying monthly when 1. I had to pay to switch payment companies because the one overcharged me. 2. I spend more time attempting to login rather than playing. 3. Every change i have seen has been somewhat pointless... And the few that said they would fix major issues, minorly fixed them.

In Holger's Plan File #3, they stated that Item Tracking, Outfitter, PvP Server, and Neocronicle were coming out within 3 Weeks. 50% successrate on that one (Rokkwear & Neocronicle.com). To my knowledge item tracking is not a usable tool by GMs yet (I'll lose an expensive item later today to prove/disprove this) and the PvP server rules, as of this plan file will be discussed on the forums... even tho two plan files ago most of the rules were laid out O_o
The Point: Timelines in plan files are such rough guides, they can be off by months, even years.

I REALLY hate to be one to say that this disgusts me. ITEM TRACKING
...
This is a MAJOR letdown for me. I recently had my account hacked (no not someone i know, just a random account overhaul) and where was Item tracking? Perhaps I should open up the chatlog... where I was openly told by GM(s) that because item tracking was removed, there was nothing they could do. Forgive me if i'm wrong, but when did you come out and tell the public that item tracking was to be removed? Never. I believe it was said that the item tracking numbers were being removed off weapons ingame so that we, the players, would not be seeing them. WAS THIS JUST A WAY TO TAKE IT OUT OF GAME AND HOPE NO ONE NOTICED?! I did.

If i was paying for car insurence for 4 years and then it was stolen, and my insurence company didn't do anything about it, would i keep using that insurance company? Why would i as a paying customer for this game be expected to keep playing/paying after this?

... Double post FTW.

Tostino

01-09-05, 18:37

I REALLY hate to be one to say that this disgusts me. ITEM TRACKING
...
This is a MAJOR letdown for me. I recently had my account hacked (no not someone i know, just a random account overhaul) and where was Item tracking? Perhaps I should open up the chatlog... where I was openly told by GM(s) that because item tracking was removed, there was nothing they could do. Forgive me if i'm wrong, but when did you come out and tell the public that item tracking was to be removed? Never. I believe it was said that the item tracking numbers were being removed off weapons ingame so that we, the players, would not be seeing them. WAS THIS JUST A WAY TO TAKE IT OUT OF GAME AND HOPE NO ONE NOTICED?! I did.

If i was paying for car insurence for 4 years and then it was stolen, and my insurence company didn't do anything about it, would i keep using that insurance company? Why would i as a paying customer for this game be expected to keep playing/paying after this?

... Double post FTW.
Ok that is very fucked up if item tracking was taken out/still not working... It's been over a month (I think atleast, I have a bad memmory). Get your shit together and make sure that works. If my shit went missing I would want KK to get it back.

Xeno LARD

01-09-05, 18:38

It's not often that things that I read on the internets make me laugh or anything in real life, I did just say "oh my god, that's fucking cool" out loud though.

I look forward to the chages. NC2.1!

Odin

01-09-05, 21:48

Item tracking has never been said to be available. It was only on the servers for test purposes and the display was a bug and was removed the following patch and we stated that as such. There are still issues that have to be resolved with it before it can be implemented.

Also did you e-mail helpdesk about your supposed "hacked" case? Everytime I've had one of these cases it's been proven in the end they shared the account, the e-mail account tied to the account, let someone watch them type their pass in or had keyloggers on their computers. I have yet to come across one that wasn't explained by one of these 4.

I remember one user who swore up and down that he was hacked and that he didn't share his info etc. Turned out he played out of a gaming center and someone watched over his shoulder as he entered his pass. All the tracking came back to that center.

I've watched fathers destroy son's characters, wives and husband's fighting over accounts. Ex Gf's walk in and delete all characters. Best friends stealing off others accounts for supposed slights. Seen it all.

fschepper

01-09-05, 22:00

(..)Ex Gf's walk in and delete all characters. (..)
Happened to a friend :D

Tostino

01-09-05, 22:06

Well i'm sorry, when I saw that in the patch notes I thought you ment that you removed the numbers that were on some of the things it was tracking. Not the whole thing.

Safunte

01-09-05, 22:06

Yes and because of this, my story wasn't believed either. Get item tracking, I am not here to complain to you about being hacked, its the damn persons fault, not the companies, but i would appreciate item tracking for further cases of such things, i've already been able to accumulate teh majority of my equipment again anywho.

Koshinn

01-09-05, 22:35

Hey Guys,

the first one is the normal Pistol replacement.
the other one is the Rocket Launcher replacement.

i hope that cleared things up a bit :)
OMG I'm right, it was a normal pistol. But... rocket launcher? Those are awfully small rockets. I mean... look at them. There's no stabalizing fins. They seriously look more like grenade launcher rounds than missiles. The casing below the warhead implies it contains propellant for initially pushing the round out of the weapon, but not enough for sustained flight. Therefore, grenade launcher.

Sakletare

01-09-05, 22:59

I know this might be a litte much to ask, but... You should seriously consider using "real" physics, perhaps it could be implemented client-side only.
First MMORPG with real physics -now that would be something to brag about!

I made a thread about a nice physics engine a while ago in off-topic, i'll dig it out.
Edit: Here it is, check those demos out. http://meqon.com/downloadarea/downloadarea.php

giga191

01-09-05, 23:26

I've pretty sure that it's a pic of a rocket pistol. Not sure if A&W make the cannons (there is a and w logo on the side)

Tratos

02-09-05, 01:24

Dont know wether this is a good or bad thing but this news update hasnt appeared on any MMO sites, i hope it does when the new look veg is here :)

retr0n

02-09-05, 09:43

Good post by -FN- a few pages back. Have to say i totaly agree.

And no KK, do not let it come in "several" patches... We all know you are not
the best at finishing what you once started, just look at what was promised for
nc2, and look at what we have, and your not even working on that once promised stuff, but are looking at completly different aspects.

I mean sure, the netcode needs some fresh lines of code, and so does the gfx
engine, but new vegetation? - How about you make playershops instead? Or
how about you put 1 hour every week into removing the small annoying things
that have been around for ages. - Remove psi resist for example.

But sure, go ahead, prove us sceptics wrong.

Asurmen Spec Op

02-09-05, 14:31

retr0n

02-09-05, 15:01

you mean like the new programer dedicated to bugs?

Yes, but psi resist is hardly a bug, it's just a leftover "feature" from long ago.

giga191

02-09-05, 17:29

Good post by -FN- a few pages back. Have to say i totaly agree.

And no KK, do not let it come in "several" patches... We all know you are not
the best at finishing what you once started, just look at what was promised for
nc2, and look at what we have, and your not even working on that once promised stuff, but are looking at completly different aspects.

I mean sure, the netcode needs some fresh lines of code, and so does the gfx
engine, but new vegetation? - How about you make playershops instead?
We will take the art dept off the veg work right away and get them on programmingplayer shops, sir!

afk2p

03-09-05, 02:23

Proposal for revised Planfile #4:
1. Commit to major redundacies in Art Dept.
2. Hire more programmers/coders with the wages/salaries released from 1.
3. Moratorium on new content until known existing bugs, broken missions, server-client update issues, login problems, subscriber payment issues are rectified.
4. Conduct a survey of customers to assertain what content they desire.

Reasoning:
1. Unproven that players want prettier pictures in a game that many (a)can't log in to, (b)can't pay for, (c) can't play as they want to because of bugs, broken missions, and poor server-client updating.
2. Needed to fix the above (obviously the existing staff are too few and/or can't cope)
3. To halt the constant cycle of patches which claim to fix things that are broken but in fact break more things that arent.
4. Find out what the customers really want, instead of forcing upon them things that are not really desired.

Over the last 10 days I have been attempting to roll a barterer but the DoY Jones barterer mission is broken. I have tried combinations of; zoning, cancelling mission multiple times, logging out, re-rolled the character at least 5 times (including different classes and factions) and I have put in 2 help tickets - 7 days apart. I have also been trying to do one epic with another character with similar mission problems. Nothing will work. Gm's advice: "Wait for the next patch, hopefully everything will be fixed then". Meanwhile I have 2 slots I can't progress the characters on.

Do you really thing that adding some eye candy that will be of no benefit at all to these characters is likely to relieve my growing frustration which drives me each day a little closer to the "cancel subscription" button?

vashtyphoon78

03-09-05, 07:04

i was thinking earlier...it would be awsome if in certain warzones the vegetation was extremely high...even inside the op...and remove the local list for that zone...make it like jungle warfare...

Judge

03-09-05, 12:57

I can't access page 8 as I'm at a net cafe and apparantly the page had a forbidden keyword, so I'm sorry if this has already been answered, however can someone please say what the hell is going down with Player Shops? They seemed kinda integral to the entire economy that KK were building up and their absense is telling.

Um, apart from that... nice planfile I guess. I'll wait until I see it ingame to congratulate you on the changes.

CMaster

03-09-05, 13:01

I can't access page 8 as I'm at a net cafe and apparantly the page had a forbidden keyword, so I'm sorry if this has already been answered, however can someone please say what the hell is going down with Player Shops? They seemed kinda integral to the entire economy that KK were building up and their absense is telling.

Damn, I can't find the quiote (I was sure it was in a planfile) but basically, Player Shops have been indefinatley persponed.

msdong

03-09-05, 13:04

... Meanwhile I have 2 slots I can't progress the characters on. ...

if i remember right noob mission scan be done until LvL 30 or so, and epics dont have any restrictions at all. so why are u stuck ?

and i dont think the calculation u did is right. if it takes 1 cane to build a house it dosnt get 100 times faster when u have 100 of them.

some ppl care how this game look, and new ppl care too as level up still works and its better when its done in a nice enviroment.
im happy that KK manage to pimp up the engine and if they manage to do that without major performance loss on recent computers i would be happy.

...what the hell is going down with Player Shops? ...

pushed back on the list to do. look for the Planfile3

Tratos

03-09-05, 13:08

For a direct quote about playershops:

The programming department will have their main focus on optimizations and bugfixes, covering both the product environment as well as game features. New features will only be implemented if either the load for the programming department is manageable, or the expected impact is adequate. Which brings me to the topic of the playershops: this feature will not be implemented in the near future. I know that our plans said otherwise in the past. I also know that a part of you will be disappointed. But the fact is that other things have to receive priority for now, and even the playershops' impact on the gameplay is controversial within the Community. I hope for your understanding, keep in mind that we will not bury this feature forever.

giga191

04-09-05, 12:41

The first screenie in the veg update isn't using dx9 water

Morganth

04-09-05, 15:10

Holy Shit, I've literally just got in the house from my holiday and hopped onto the forums how the game was going, and saw this plan file.

I'm genuinely impressed, and I hope that the refinements to the engine make the game more playable!

And I hope that vegetation is forced, provided it doesn't cripple people's FPS when concentrated in one zone (like one of the swamp zones towards Regeant's Fortress where you FPS drops into the negatives if you have vegetation on).

Asurmen Spec Op

04-09-05, 18:44

Tratos

04-09-05, 18:48

is - fps possible... I mean what is it going backwards?

it pulls your retinas through your corneas into the monitor :eek:

Asurmen Spec Op

04-09-05, 19:05

it pulls your retinas through your corneas into the monitor :eek:
OH GOD THE PAIN!

ZoraN

04-09-05, 19:43

First thing ill do when it releases (god knows when that will be...) is to do the same thing as I did when I came to nc2; get the gfx and vegitation detail back to zero put, powerstrip on and continue where I last were when I got interrupted :P

kurai

04-09-05, 19:43

Asurmen Spec Op

04-09-05, 20:19

Good grief.

KK attempting a complete re-do of vegetation, with *their* track record on DX9 feature updates to the engine ?

*shudder*

This has disaster written all over it.

I mean *seriously* - with all the other components of the game that are in dire need of attention someone thought this would be a good thing to keep the code & artwork team busy with ? O_o
they still have one guy dedicated purly to bugs, weather or not these guys are donig this

Morganth

05-09-05, 00:36

is - fps possible... I mean what is it going backwards?

Nah, I am just exaggerating. I got 3-5 FPS in that area of the game world, and that was standing still :lol:

Terayon

05-09-05, 01:47

Any progress actualy been made on player position updates?

Asurmen Spec Op

05-09-05, 02:14

Nah, I am just exaggerating. I got 3-5 FPS in that area of the game world, and that was standing still :lol:
shhh, your retinas are being sucked into the screen

Tostino

05-09-05, 05:04

Good grief.

KK attempting a complete re-do of vegetation, with *their* track record on DX9 feature updates to the engine ?

*shudder*

This has disaster written all over it.

I mean *seriously* - with all the other components of the game that are in dire need of attention someone thought this would be a good thing to keep the code & artwork team busy with ? O_o
That's what i'm worrying about.
I hope that KK will work on optimising (sp?) the engine after they do this so it doesn't take dual 6800's to run it without slow down.

QuakCow

05-09-05, 06:37

if we get nothing more then a pumpkin shaped judge skin ill be happy ;)

that was kindof unclear, i mean if we get something (anything!) ill be ecstatic

Asurmen Spec Op

05-09-05, 06:38

if we get nothing more then a pumpkin shaped judge skin ill be happy ;)
no more talking outa you!

hegemonic

05-09-05, 07:08

Although the vegetation and physics upgrades are very nice IDEAS, I have to express my concern at addressing memory leaks and reliable synching first. Please fix the synchs and bugs first, then give us shiny new purty things ;)

Asurmen Spec Op

05-09-05, 07:39

Heavyporker

05-09-05, 16:27

whoa.. I'm dizzy... so fucking dizzy... wow...

giga191

06-09-05, 02:13

netcode changes first plz

Mechanicus

06-09-05, 18:40

can characters transfered from pandore to terra have their names changed like the nc1----->nc2 transfer?

thanks

Dargeshaad

06-09-05, 19:05

I hope they tune the grafics to get better specs even with forced veg
They should make it possible to turn on/off to begin with, so they can get lots of feedback from us users how it affects OUR performance and not how it seems to be doing on their "test" computers. After analysing the results they should then decide to either make it forced or make an on/off (or partly) switch.
But we're talking about kk here.......:rolleyes:

Tratos

06-09-05, 22:12

Its made it to MMORPG.com http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?loadNews=3521/&fp=1024,768,423552968,20050906161136

Toxen

06-09-05, 22:48

Read the member comments on the ratings pages

Mr Friendly

07-09-05, 01:25

niceeeeee trees will actually look real now =D

eprodigy

07-09-05, 07:38

for some reason i took kind of offense at the people bashing neocron over there... most of these people are players of 2-3 years and they have nothing more intelligent to say then "it sucks dont play it" to any potential new players.

i dunno

optiplex

07-09-05, 11:10

wtf they working on vegitation for? how bout doing something bout the game first.

Tratos

07-09-05, 15:55

wtf they working on vegitation for? how bout doing something bout the game first.

Once again the artists dont fix codeing problems, coders do which is why there is currently a dedicated coder working on bugs/fres/syncs which is alot from a 19 man in house dev team.

Brammers

07-09-05, 16:53

That reminds me, will Via Rosso be re-textured for NC2.1, since it hasn't been updated since NC1.

optiplex

08-09-05, 08:33

can we get like new guns? or maybe different textures for the guns i mean a lvl 41 cannon is same as a lvl 115 at least at a blinking blue light or something. maybe have more variety of suits like a flower on PA2 of some sort. What bout armor changing the view of your character like some games. boots change something, belt armor etc?

Photcron

08-09-05, 15:38

After reading this entire thread over some coffee and a bagel, the predominate outcry of the players are Reakktors focus with graphics. After 11 pages I felt the need to share this single solitary comment regarding all this:

Pretty doesn't play.

--
Photcron

Morganth

08-09-05, 18:52

maybe have more variety of suits like a flower on PA2 of some sort.

I'm worried about you Opti. :p

QuakCow

08-09-05, 23:44

i have very little bug that affect me (an occasional login bug). graphics have never been top, or even near the top, of my list to make a game good. but i would very much like the rest of the world of neocron feel as complete as the dome of york. if that means better graphics, more veg, and new weapon models then so be it

(on a side note, opti...you probably want that rifle back, huh? :D )

a4nic8er

09-09-05, 02:59

Is there any chance at all that the art department can spare some time from refoliating the planet to change the hack tool or stealth tool graphics so they can be identified by sight?

Seven

09-09-05, 03:45

Is there any chance at all that the art department can spare some time from refoliating the planet to change the hack tool or stealth tool graphics so they can be identified by sight?

LOL! Gotta love KK's priorities. :lol: o_O

afk2p

09-09-05, 04:15

[03-09-05, 12:23]
Over the last 10 days I have been attempting to roll a barterer but the DoY Jones barterer mission is broken. I have tried combinations of; zoning, cancelling mission multiple times, logging out, re-rolled the character at least 5 times (including different classes and factions) and I have put in 2 help tickets - 7 days apart. I have also been trying to do one epic with another character with similar mission problems. Nothing will work. Gm's advice: "Wait for the next patch, hopefully everything will be fixed then".
The barterer quest is still broken at mission 2.
No fix was included any of patch 144/145/146?
Is it going to be fixed or not?