View Full Version : A Request to Dev's, GM's and Players
Take 10-15 minutes out of your NC day, turn you vegitation upto full turn fog back on, and turn on the background music, Then just go for a stroll in the wastelands...
This is how NC2 was meant to be, rich landscape, engrossing backing tracks.
But how is it perceived, mostly with every feature turned down to its bare minimum to avoid bugs and flaws, which takes everything out of the game experience, with nice lush landscapes to look at we might be a little more relaxed over issues such as the insane damage a glider gets from hitting a bush while a hover tech pritty much the same speed as a glider can do a head on into a tree and not even cause a scratch. Neocron has so much potential going to waste, it has something no other MMO really has a loyal hardcore fan base that has stuck out the worst of it, and is still willing to make sacrifices to keep the game going. A couple of months back holgar him self started posting again and suddenly activity pickedup to previously unknown levels, but as soon as he wasn't posting again things reverted to the go slow.
I ask now on behalf of myself, the community and the council (rember voting for english section of council finishs this week) that the dev's post a list of known bugs still remaining in the game (excluding those that allow the game to be exploited) for discussion. There is surely no harm in this and would love to see the Dev's counter argument.
The landscape ruduction of bushes etc. is not used by me to lower bugs, increase performance. I lower it to be able to see all around me.
I remember taking a noob to level at Gravis swamp. He was following me then went of in completely the wrong direction, I said come here , he's like where????
The problem was he had his vegatation up full and couldn't see me through it yet i could see him perfectly well. PvP advantage anyone?
As for the bugs , all known issues should be with in patch facts or the bug forum, however detailing them in one place might aid the fixing of them but may also put some potential players off!! You can imagine how long the list would be ;)
Well a potential player can just scan the forums and find more to put him/her off than just a simple list of bugs, though if their listed all in one place, and a proactive discussion on how to solve them is taking place it looks far better than a multitude of flames, and at least they can check there for possible solutions and temporary work arounds until they're permanently fixed. What NC lacks is a knowledge base unlike other games, sxr have given us a wonderful items, guides and maps database but theres still no technical issue knowledge base heck we could call it the ceres knowledge base to make it seem to fit in with the game more. Rember guys its all about appearance and sales skill, if you know how to make something look good thats really shit, you can sell dirt to farmers. Its kinda getting to the point where KK needs a marketing consultant to sell the game to exsisting customers.
Oh and riddle I bet your fps goes up even if a little when you turn vegitation off.
Everybody already knows what the bugs are - that's the problem. They've stuck with them through NC1 retail, letting the other, newer problems crop up and drop by the wayside as KK try to keep up, but the core issues are still there.
Fatal errors, sync bugs, these are the kind of things that make a new player log off instantaneously and wonder why they bothered in the first place, and they would be right. Why spend good money on a game that simply doesn't work properly?
That is the simple fact, and it astounds me that KK seem unable to accept it. People dig at this game all day & night, offer all sorts of services, go well out of their way to try to help, but all of it appears to fall on deaf ears. Small fixes are never enough, and KK never seem to want to attack anything head on anymore.
There is of course, what this game is. It's unmatched in terms of gameplay, that same enjoyment factor that keeps people playing horrendously outdated games from forgotten consoles. Everybody knows that it would be a very, very enjoyable experience - even with the current level of content - if the damn thing just worked.
KK have 'very powerful' servers, yet the zones have always seemed to creep along at a slow plod. We put up with horrendous amounts of lag, along with general game problems that simply don't exist at this level in other MMORPGs (NPC scripts not being downloaded properly being one minor, but hugely annoying factor).
The game itself sucks up resources like a vacuum. I can play some of the most load-intensive games on my mid-range machine without many problems besides not-so-great fps. Neocron slaps a couple of new textures in, 'upgrades' to DX9 & everything hits the floor.
There are innumerable other flaws & niggles that keep NC2 tied to the floor like an anchor. They're pointed out on a regular basis, yet nothing is done. I will probably be told otherwise or edited - but 2-3 years of 'looking into it' is unacceptable for games development, simple as. No other company would stand for it, few customer bases would stick along (again, gameplay).
I'm no master of games development. But from what I've seen in the past, an unnegotiable problem brings along drastic measure. More devs, more training, more everything. They know the investment (no matter the cost) will sort them out in the long run, and keep a customer base that will eventually make up any sort of deficit and keep success.
Why KK don't do this, I don't know. A discussion will help nothing, though. It's all been talked about before, even back in the days when you could refresh and a thread would have 20 more replies than a second beforehand. They didn't listen then, either.
Where as most companies can bring in new devs (no matter the cost, highly synically that this would ever happen in any good business) KK cannot it simply doesn't have that ammount of free cash to invest from what I've gleamed from people i've talked to on server about this is that KK is currently working with a fixed ammount of expenditure per month on the game and this is no where near enough to deal with existing problems let alone be able to be freed for more dev's. Basicly things are getting fixed on a priority basis and the dev teams deciding what the priority is (personally I think that should be in the communities hands). But who every is doing the cash allocation for KK needs to take a step back look at where NC is in its product life cycle, compared to other MMO's that began around the same time, most of those are still in their peak while NC is definately in decline. A new vicious marketing stratergy is needed, no more elves originaly posted by holgar looked good would have made an impact but it just totaly lost steam and didn't even really make it outside the fourms, I want to be able to goto a major games website and not go three pages without seeing an advert of NC unless I've paid for no adverts. The idea of the trial should be one of the most publicly visable things, people see free and think goody, everyone knows one neocrons like its neocrack :P get them in on the trial then get em hooked :P, but you know having to enter your credit card details prior to been able to use the trial is a big put off.
All in all NC2 had plenty of time in development theres no real exscuse for all the bugs in game most people would have waited another year if the game and been redone properly than simply a DX upgrade and some content changes.
Accept the game for how it is today and enjoy it. That is the only attitude to take with Neocron.
Any fixes or development are an unexpected bonus.
Bugs Gunny
24-08-05, 15:00
General attitude of most vets:
Play it, till it slowly dies off and hope for not too many bugs that make it unblayable along the way.
KK wil NEVER fix this game. The're just trying to keep up with all the new bugs introduced after every patch.
Once you start accepting this you no longer pull your hair out at each FRE.
We need to go and make 10T give more money to KK :p or even better kidnap some of the german based 10T developers and lock them up in KK HQ untill some of the big hitting bugs and stability issues are fixed.
We can dream i guess.
I have hope for Neocron as it was my first MMO, ive played a fair few others and they just didnt do what NC does for me, my hope may be in vain but -shrugs- meh,
Bugs Gunny
24-08-05, 15:21
We all play and wait for something better. Now that's the attitude of a content loyal playerbase isn't it?
Scanner Darkly
24-08-05, 17:42
Best not think about the bugs, bugs. This game is fun enough when it works well and there are enemies to fight/people to interact with, and I just switch off and blank out any of the countless login bugs I may get in a session - it's the only way to stay sane :angel:
The vegetation, sky and music are off. In fact, everything that is needed to make the game nice is either off, or set to a bearable miniumun.Even the number of polygons is reduced on my computer.
Why? I cannot afford to buy a new machine. Its either this or 10 FPS. In my case, it has nowt to do with bugs. However, I cannot concentate with the music on.
One of the biggest probs with the music its too dominant its not background music, and the fact that it restarts or changes with every single zone means that if never gets a chance to full merge into the background.
One of my posts back in beta...
- Wastelands Upgrade : Vegetation can be turned off: 90% of the population will TURN OFF VEGETATION FOR COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE which cuts out a large portion of what makes Neocron look beautiful. It will continue to get mediocre graphic reviews if this is not changed. Make three buttons, Low, Medium, and High for Vegetation. Do not allow it to be turned off.
If "low medium and high" responds to the textures of the vegetation im all for it, how ever if it responds to the amount EVERYONE will run it at low for an advantage in PvP.
Well .. I don't give a shit because I KNOW why it can't be done thats all..
Original monk
24-08-05, 21:52
Accept the game for how it is today and enjoy it. That is the only attitude to take with Neocron.
Any fixes or development are an unexpected bonus.
yup :)
This is how NC2 was meant to be, rich landscape, engrossing backing tracks.You mean it was supposed to be set up so that only short range weapons would work?
Vegetation hides too many things to be useful. Fog distance reduces the already-short clipping plane even more. Object blend? Same thing.
You play NC the way you want to. I want to be able to SEE what I'm doing and make use of my rifle collection.
You mean it was supposed to be set up so that only short range weapons would work?
Vegetation hides too many things to be useful. Fog distance reduces the already-short clipping plane even more. Object blend? Same thing.
You play NC the way you want to. I want to be able to SEE what I'm doing and make use of my rifle collection.
I think the point is, it was supposed to look...nice :/
You mean it was supposed to be set up so that only short range weapons would work?
Vegetation hides too many things to be useful. Fog distance reduces the already-short clipping plane even more. Object blend? Same thing.
You play NC the way you want to. I want to be able to SEE what I'm doing and make use of my rifle collection.
Ahhh but wouldn't you prefer to be a sniper sneaking about in the bush's out of sight rather than standing out like a saw thumb.
I rember when you made that post when NC2 was in Beta FN, and at the time I didn't like the idea. But if they made the game run smoother then I would be 100% for that idea. It would be helpful if they made some of the areas a little less thick with grass and other stuff though...
Well .. I don't give a shit because I KNOW why it can't be done thats all..
Well Lil T, could you share your thoughts on that since u seem to know something that we dont know?????
Scanner Darkly
26-08-05, 03:22
IF max vegetation detail didnt affect fps as much as it used to (haven't had full quality on for more than a few minutes since I started NC2 since it halves my fps) I'd gladly have it perma turned on.
I'm no technical guru, but as I understand it, vegetation is drawn with sprites and we all know what lots of sprites do to the game's performance (viz thread about Devourer).
Again I think the game would be a LOT more fun especially for characters who wish to use stealth (not the tool) to their advantage and I guess would make for a somewhat different wasteland combat experience too. Like a previous poster said, it really ramps up the atmosphere, I forgot how cool the wastes can look until I pumped up the veg today (oh yeah and performance still dropped a fair bit - so turning it off for non LEd characters)
tomparadox
27-08-05, 23:44
- Wastelands Upgrade : Vegetation can be turned off: 90% of the population will TURN OFF VEGETATION FOR COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE which cuts out a large portion of what makes Neocron look beautiful. It will continue to get mediocre graphic reviews if this is not changed. Make three buttons, Low, Medium, and High for Vegetation. Do not allow it to be turned off.
I hardly consider looking at pixlated grass "beautiful".
but for the most part i agree...
Me and my friend picked up Sonic today. It was the shiznit. Can't beat Sonic 3 :D
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