Choas Caves

[vashtyphoon78]

Me and some freinds on vent were thinking today, Why do antis get so many caves when we get one puny choas caves that no one likes leveling in anyways? how hard is it to put one freaking Choas Caves close to NC so that were not shafted so much?

[Transformer]

those caves arn't really given to anti. pro has the same opportunity to obtain cycrow just as anti does. its just pro doesn't have cycrow so it seems as if we're shafted.

[Mechanicus]

theres a chaos cave diectly outside the Doy only TG canyon, and doy is so near the crp area that its easy for them to regroup even if all the nearby opps are taken, while pro have to run halfway across the map because you bet drt will be camped if theres opp wars on the area

[MrTrip]

Eh...theres some other types of caves around...its just that people choose to level in the chaos caves the most o_O

[Seraphin[69]]

Personnaly I level my guys where it's the best for them :

Chaos cave with a ppu for my apu (barrel)
Ceres lab when I want HUGE xp from mobs (85/** rank is not good for xp), same for the giant warbots (crossbow's cave)
Swamp cave when I'm alone with apu

Rhino trip on firemobs when I level my tank (+ capping PE/spy as a driver)

It sure is hard to level in soulclusters caves (lot of damages for jsut a few mobs) , so are the cristal caves (damn small mobs very hard to aim when they can poison a LOT)

[Original monk]

all good stuff is NE of the map ... simple .. always have been :/

balance ? i dont know anyone called balance im sorry

and be happy we have neutral genreps now :/

but if you say sumthing about the chaoscaves first response is: OMG you guys have aggycellars and you still complain ? tough i dont see myself capping multiple monks in an aggycellar o.O

but hey ... if you need real xp go to the doytunnels/cerescaves or yust sneak into catlock or even CRP :)

[Asurmen Spec Op]

all good stuff is NE of the map ... simple .. always have been :/

balance ? i dont know anyone called balance im sorry

and be happy we have neutral genreps now :/
Swamp caves > all

[Original monk]

Swamp caves > all

lol that was fast ... yeah there ok but after the millionth flapper it gets boring also .. and its way more fun barreling tons of crawling things on the floor :)

thats why i asked for a spidercave somewhere around the city exit ... 100/100 spiders spawning 90/90, 80/80 and 70/70 spiders wich you can barrel nonstop :)

procity needs a place with good xp like crp with a GR ... where they can meet up and always find a ppu to level (+ anticitys can raid that place)

anticity's level alot at crp you can mostly find people there ... but try finding a procity leveling ... thats kinda rare cause there scattered all over the map

[Torg]

*imho* chaos caves should all be closed. exp comes too cheap for AoE-chars. way too cheap.

[sultana]

Eh...theres some other types of caves around...its just that people choose to level in the chaos caves the most o_O
The chaos caves easily give the best xp though.

Though if I'm levelling by myself, swamp caves is usually better/easier.

[Toxen]

*imho* chaos caves should all be closed. exp comes too cheap for AoE-chars. way too cheap.

Aye at least until they're moved away from CRP GR.

Ok The way I see it cus im looking at a map with all the leveling caves marked on it at the moment stuck to my wall (A2 Sized). Is that we're still on the NC1 leveling map. Basicly the placement is all wrong.

Look at it this way there are three types of poison cave, Swamp, Crystal, Choas, first i find it a little weird that chaos is poison damage and has no stacks that would change alot of things in there. But anyway look where there located around MB, TH, TG Canyon. All places in NC1 that were recommended only for experienced players (that kk assumed they'd know howto deal with those caves)
Though I wouldn't exactly class soul clusters as hard mobs they can be tough buggers to kill So worm tunnel were placed further away from neocron kinda middle position between all three experience faction HQ's. These area's also gained more hardcore external mob spawns MB got WB's, TH got Hoverbots, TG Canyon got a mix of firemobs and if they expanded out a bit Ceres mobs. You really don't see any 120/120's near NC, south of the ceres mine zone.

Now take a step back and look at the map, you'll notice the leveling locations get harder the more you move away from NC, Until you get to places like el farid fire caves. That was designed when almost everyone was coming from the south of the map and would move north as they gained experience when there was no actual doy city, and we're still working with that leveling cave layout which is flawed.

Oh and to trips comment about leveling else where, you know that choas caves are the easiest to level in, swamp caves are prone to getting walled mobs that do super damage, massive poison stacks, and doors that close on you and won't open again. Crystal caves, insanely fast poison and critters with smaller hitboxes than dragon flys and move alot faster oh did I forget to mention its near pitch black with gamma maxed aswell. Choas cave has one unique feature unlike most leveling caves, it does a stack damage class without doing stacks so your safer, plus you can run around the corner at the last second and survive you can't do that in crystal or swamp, Also aoe in either swamp or crystal is not as effective as chaos, monks practically just barrel their way through the caves plus it has a lower class of mob that spawns other mobs than those that spawn mobs in the other caves, ie chaos leuitenant

[Argent]

Chaos <-> Swamp : You just need to think about the damage differently. If you're carefull in swamp cave you'll propably never die. On the opposite, in chaos caves the mobs can get "lucky" and hit you simultaneously for insta death even from full health. Obviously the DoT is bigger in the end, but has much less shock impact. For spies swamp caves are a heaven.

[Toxen]

Aye you can tell that from how much friggen pistol ammo down there, gravis is full of it even aciddently got caught in zone sync with FF pistol spys popping down gravis the other day. And in the choas caves if your that low that two simulatnious shots take you out you weren't paying attention to the health meter plus quite a bit of it yo'yos down there. Far more walls to hide behind than in the swamp caves wheres theres water that slows you down also.

[Riddle]

Aye at least until they're moved away from CRP GR.

Ok The way I see it cus im looking at a map with all the leveling caves marked on it at the moment stuck to my wall (A2 Sized). Is that we're still on the NC1 leveling map. Basicly the placement is all wrong.

Look at it this way there are three types of poison cave, Swamp, Crystal, Choas, first i find it a little weird that chaos is poison damage and has no stacks that would change alot of things in there. But anyway look where there located around MB, TH, TG Canyon. All places in NC1 that were recommended only for experienced players (that kk assumed they'd know howto deal with those caves)
Though I wouldn't exactly class soul clusters as hard mobs they can be tough buggers to kill So worm tunnel were placed further away from neocron kinda middle position between all three experience faction HQ's. These area's also gained more hardcore external mob spawns MB got WB's, TH got Hoverbots, TG Canyon got a mix of firemobs and if they expanded out a bit Ceres mobs. You really don't see any 120/120's near NC, south of the ceres mine zone.

Now take a step back and look at the map, you'll notice the leveling locations get harder the more you move away from NC, Until you get to places like el farid fire caves. That was designed when almost everyone was coming from the south of the map and would move north as they gained experience when there was no actual doy city, and we're still working with that leveling cave layout which is flawed.

Oh and to trips comment about leveling else where, you know that choas caves are the easiest to level in, swamp caves are prone to getting walled mobs that do super damage, massive poison stacks, and doors that close on you and won't open again. Crystal caves, insanely fast poison and critters with smaller hitboxes than dragon flys and move alot faster oh did I forget to mention its near pitch black with gamma maxed aswell. Choas cave has one unique feature unlike most leveling caves, it does a stack damage class without doing stacks so your safer, plus you can run around the corner at the last second and survive you can't do that in crystal or swamp, Also aoe in either swamp or crystal is not as effective as chaos, monks practically just barrel their way through the caves plus it has a lower class of mob that spawns other mobs than those that spawn mobs in the other caves, ie chaos leuitenant


A valid point and something i have pointed out before.

DOY was just dumped at the North East corner with no thought as to moving levelling caves.

The map should now have the very hardest caves along the centre of the map reducing in difficulty as you progress either North or South to each city. That way noobs can gradually find harder and harder mobs by moving towards the centre of the map.

How hard would this be??? Just change the map to show a cave entrance not that hard also the cave which is already in game. Just link the entrance synch to a cave?? or is that to simple??

[Toxen]

Sync's can be changed on the fly by EGM's its really not that hard with a map and a sync tool

[Asurmen Spec Op]

lol that was fast ... yeah there ok but after the millionth flapper it gets boring also .. and its way more fun barreling tons of crawling things on the floor :)

thats why i asked for a spidercave somewhere around the city exit ... 100/100 spiders spawning 90/90, 80/80 and 70/70 spiders wich you can barrel nonstop :)

procity needs a place with good xp like crp with a GR ... where they can meet up and always find a ppu to level (+ anticitys can raid that place)

anticity's level alot at crp you can mostly find people there ... but try finding a procity leveling ... thats kinda rare cause there scattered all over the mapsure go ahead, I dont care if pro gets a good lving spot, I dont think any of DoY does.

[Seraphin[69]]

but some will still complain if that cave is not in a warzone when we rushes :-p

[Original monk]

']but some will still complain if that cave is not in a warzone when we rushes :-p

i aint gonna be the one complaining when looting those belts :)

[Bugs Gunny]

Heh, i'm sure all the raiding you do will be with ppu support :-)
And Catlock is not in a warzone, yet pros level there all the time. Time for you guys to raid it i think.

[vashtyphoon78]

those caves arn't really given to anti. pro has the same opportunity to obtain cycrow just as anti does. its just pro doesn't have cycrow so it seems as if we're shafted.

those caves really are anti. we took cycrow yesterday and last it within about 3 hours.

[giga191]

those caves really are anti. we took cycrow yesterday and last it within about 3 hours. It's not anti's fault you can't hold it. Having looked at the map, cycrow zone is almost exactly the same distance from NC as from DoY. I would also like to point at that you could probably get to cycrow quicker from DoY than from the canyon since they won't let us get through the main entrance 8|. You can go there from TH if DRT is camped.

[Toxen]

Theres a number of pacts between anticity clans to defend cycrow what ever, this is why when raiding if we hack even a single layer you get a forest of red and blue cloaks. Pro would have to expend all of its combat effort just on that one op and mount a heavy 24hour presense to keep it and it would be at the expense of other ops on the map.

[Bugs Gunny]

There's been a great decline in people leveling at crp without le's in.
I like it if anticity has cycrow. It means it's a lot easier for pro's to find antis to kill.
Imagine you being anti. Where would you go to kill a pro city????
Seriously... where?
And as for opfights? They ountumber pro nc so hard they no longer get good fights....

I think it sucks to be an anticity runner these days, yet they all choose to stay there and complain about not getting good fights and people killing their levelers at crp.

There's no real point in having ops, except for the statussymbol they give a clan. Sure some researchers and cst's can use the bonus but they can do just as fine without them. Easy travel? Well spec some hack and you can get anywhere for free. Plus there's a lot of public gr's left.

For my roleplaying i would so have loved to go black dragon, but the fear or total boredom prevented me from going there.

[Seraphin[69]]

those caves really are anti. we took cycrow yesterday and last it within about 3 hours.


Well.. YOU did aggro the chasers 120/120, we did not.

When I defended that outpost (I'm FF) you had a lot of chasers outside so I just ran in and debuffed a few people (who instantanely died).
That opwar was lagging so much it wasn't even fun ;)

[giga191]

Kinda a contradictive arguement saying that you can't take cycrow because there are so many antis

If anti city has so many people, doesn't that mean that they need more places to level? ;)

[Judge]

Sure, give the Pro City a cave near to NC... at least then we'll have some place to raid.

[Mechanicus]

a lot of the reason cycrow is so great is because its a lab too, and every allignment other than pro city has one on their doorsteps, TT have cycrow, mercs have jankins/chester, FA have chester, doy in general has syncon and soliko, procity just has a bunch of crappy factorys

imo they should change a factory to a lab and put some good levelign areas in that zone (so simmons tyron or mcpherson would all be good choices, simmons or tyron would probally be best as point red/crest villiage could be regrouping areas similer to drt)

[Scanner Darkly]

Sure you can either complain about being shafted, or you can use a bit of imagination and level in far more interesting a fun ways than constant chaos-grinding...

[ZigZag]

June/July 2003........Pluto

"Hey lore why dont we make a TG clan ?...we call it something to do with freedom and we make cycrow its home (reason being its stupid to be freedom fighters who hang around in the safe zones of nc). We dont keep it shut to all other factions like the present owners do -- we open it to all factions saying "because we are fighting for the freedom of all neocron we are proving it to u that we truely have ur freedom as our goal" This we do coz we want a place our enemies can come and level and a place they can always find us to attack us, even if there are no op wars going on" -- thats how ff began and on Pluto it was kept open to all most the time.

my point is cycrow has become cycrow because someone put the effort into it. No one ever gave cycrow to us. But it became a very busy place on pluto for a long time and we fought dam hard to keep it.

I dont understand therefore how "pros need a cycrow".
the other thing is way back in early nc no one even went into the chaos caves - there were no ppus back then, occasionally one heard of some hybrid who claimed to have soloed the cave. no one "needs" the chaos caves to level .....all early chars were capped without.

this is just odd for someone who remembers how cycrow was before ff got hold of it :confused:

[Toxen]

We don't exactly want cycrow but it is one of the nearest availiable labs and unfortunately FF doesn't still operate that open door policy and no one would obey the no hostility pact for leveling there that comes from both side of the coin, That description of FF starting up sounds alot like the description of reeza setting up TG originally and look what happend there.

[Original monk]

June/July 2003........Pluto

"Hey lore why dont we make a TG clan ?...we call it something to do with freedom and we make cycrow its home (reason being its stupid to be freedom fighters who hang around in the safe zones of nc). We dont keep it shut to all other factions like the present owners do -- we open it to all factions saying "because we are fighting for the freedom of all neocron we are proving it to u that we truely have ur freedom as our goal" This we do coz we want a place our enemies can come and level and a place they can always find us to attack us, even if there are no op wars going on" -- thats how ff began and on Pluto it was kept open to all most the time.

my point is cycrow has become cycrow because someone put the effort into it. No one ever gave cycrow to us. But it became a very busy place on pluto for a long time and we fought dam hard to keep it.

I dont understand therefore how "pros need a cycrow".
the other thing is way back in early nc no one even went into the chaos caves - there were no ppus back then, occasionally one heard of some hybrid who claimed to have soloed the cave. no one "needs" the chaos caves to level .....all early chars were capped without.

this is just odd for someone who remembers how cycrow was before ff got hold of it :confused:

i dunno where to start so ill yust laugh lol :lol:

[sultana]

I dont understand therefore how "pros need a cycrow".
the other thing is way back in early nc no one even went into the chaos caves - there were no ppus back then, occasionally one heard of some hybrid who claimed to have soloed the cave. no one "needs" the chaos caves to level .....all early chars were capped without.:
Procity doesn't need a cycrow like area. However the fact is, it is by far easier and faster to level at the chaos caves then any other caves. Giving whoever hold the canyons the best place to level ingame. What else is, nearly all of the high level caves are closer to DoY then they are to NC. The fact that all of anticity can simply genrep to the TG canyon just makes it worse.

So give procity a high level (chaos-like) cave which they can level in. I don't really see how anticity can so no to that, seeing as they have held/had one for so long.

[Original monk]

if KK would of given procity a decent levelingcave (a la chaoscaves) about 3 years ago i would be happy, tough seeing afterwords its atleast as fun sneaking into anticity levelingarea :) made some good friends and enemy's like that :) (tough i wouldnt mind a cave with crawling critters somewhere near NCcity)

still its kinda weird why anticity always gets that lil extra ... i mean the hurlerkingmission is NE ... them kami's in NC1 where mainly NE ... all chaoscaves, lotsa doytunnels, tons of firemobs .. MC5 !!! ... current cereslabs ... elfaridcaves ... certainly no free genrep close to the very NE corners of the map (direction oasis and eastgate)... and them (useless) doybots everywhere you can see in the desertarea (why are they there ? cant anticity defend doy by emselves ? i doubt it tbh .. like those overpowerd doyguards arent enough allready lol)

... its obvious kk wonna keep a strong anticityside

and to get back to my previous post where i was laughing at zigzag ... i dont wonna burst youre bubble but on every server nomather what faction got ahold of cycrow/CRP .. its always been one of the most popular levelingspots since i began to play ... i can assure you not you .. not youre clan .. has anything to do with that :) even if you keep every OP closed you will notice all people will always get back to CRP cause they know there will be a levelingteam (with ppu) in 9 outta 10 cases :)

this was on early pluto aswel as on saturn as on uranus ...

edit: tbh i cant be arsed cause my chars are 50/50 divided between procity and anticity but there is obviously a big diffrence between pro and anticity levelinggrounds

[Darkana]

In one turn you say "whatever faction holds it", in the next you complain about pro-city not having a CRP like leveling spot ... The (short) time I played on Mars the whole server was owned by pro-city. So it was the reverse situation like on Terra currently. Unfortunately for all these pro-cities, I had my LE in :p Secondly, there are no TG guards in the canyon zones anymore, which "marked" this area as TG ground.

Btw. I leveled a few chars mostly elsewhere than in the chaos caves, because of lacking PPU support (without AoE, chaos caves are not really worth to even think about). Sure, the XP/time ratio is maybe not that good as in chaos caves. But I wouldn't consider getting 1mil INT XP and more than that in DEX per Jankins-swamp-cave-run on my barter spy bad (using high TL pistols). Compared to that I got like 400k INT XP per chaos cave run on my PPU. It's all about looking at it from a different angle :)

Nonetheless, I'm all for more leveling places to add some more varity to the leveling process. I do like originaL's idea about a spider cave, for example :) Maybe with a spider-mastermind like this:

http://www.mantris.net/darkana/redteethspider.jpg

[Original monk]

In one turn you say "whatever faction holds it", in the next you complain about pro-city not having a CRP like leveling spot ... The (short) time I played on Mars the whole server was owned by pro-city. So it was the reverse situation like on Terra currently. Unfortunately for all these pro-cities, I had my LE in :p Secondly, there are no TG guards in the canyon zones anymore, which "marked" this area as TG ground.

indeed darkana :) i was talking about 2 diffrent things tough .. for one i would like to see a more balanced location of levelingcaves ... for me CRP is included in that NEcorner of mainly anticity territory.. cause close to doy and the canyon ... on all servers i played (the 3 english servers, mostly saturn and uranus tough.. ) this area was and is mostly considerd anticity levelingground ..

on the other hand i was aiming at zigzags quote who made the point that he's clan or favourite clan or whatever made CRP into a favourite levelingarea ... my point was that on any server nomather the situation CRP always been a popular levelingarea so actually i dont know what all the nonsense of the foundation of he's clan has to do with CRP being a popular levelingarea ... i found this absurd cause he's (favourite) clan didnt play on all servers and still CRP kept being a known and popular levelingground everywhere ... terra isnt pluto you know...

but i see where youre getting to ... if procity takes and keeps CRP they also have a levelingground ... tough this isnt the same as i dont consider CRP a procity area .. cause located at the other side of the map .. i yust would like to see a highlevel cave with the same XP/time ratio a bit closer to the NCgates ... ffcourse this can be occupied/taken by anti also but this wouldnt make it anticity territory but procity territory in the hands of anti .. (if taken)

also i dont really complain :) as i said ill yust log an antichar if i wonna be in antiarea .. i was yust telling what i observed and would like to see changed aiming at highlevel caves and levelingarea's .. pointing out the gap between the 2 ... same as past year .. the year before that etc ..

and yeah im glad allready there arent no annoying TGguards nomore standing there ... tough now i feel the same about the tons of doybots scattered around the NE deserts ... a few at for example the graves (wich i forget to mention in previous post)

darkana, i would love to fight the spider you yust posted, it can only be enjoyable, if you used a launcher or noobbarrel in the spidercellars in NCcity before you sure know what i mean :)

[Clobber]

my point is cycrow has become cycrow because someone put the effort into it. No one ever gave cycrow to us. But it became a very busy place on pluto for a long time and we fought dam hard to keep it.

Who put the effort in? kk when they put firemobs a chaos cave and another chaos cave at catlock nearby ? Cycrow has always been busy and always will be for those reasons alone.

Its not hard go lvl at catlock or grant and there are plenty of other good places to lvl, but a high lvl chaos like cave would be handy with say the crest or pr gr's a sector away.

[Mechanicus]

We don't exactly want cycrow but it is one of the nearest availiable labs and unfortunately FF doesn't still operate that open door policy and no one would obey the no hostility pact for leveling there that comes from both side of the coin, That description of FF starting up sounds alot like the description of reeza setting up TG originally and look what happend there.

so TG have become exactly what they stood against!

[ROZZER187]

only chaos cave we can go to is/was catlock but anti lvl there aswell now :(
funny really as anti have 3 caves but feel the need to lvl at catlock jst because pro are :lol:

imo if pro got a cave anti would only camp it.just something you have to live with. pro get gravis which you can also barrel in near the shaman room.

and if anyone wants to know im pro not anti :p