View Full Version : Post-Patch Performance
Ok, I can't tell if it's just me or not...
Since the patch, I have not been able to log in successfully on my first try, once. Every time I get one or a combination of the following:
- The 50/80 Bug
- Missing Armor/Implants
- Missing Random Inventory Items
- Missing QB
- Cannot use any QB Items
- Fatal Runtime Error after relogging at least 10 times.
All of my characters, including my PPU, have died due to logging in and being killed by mobs/players because I was either in perma-synch and coudln't fight back/defend, can't use my QB items to fight back/defend, or had no QB at all so I couldn't do shit. Is it just me? How many people are having NO problems logging in? Please speak up, I want to know there is hope :( If I'm the only one or there are very few problem people with many completely successful people, then I won't mind as much... it is sad that several SXR are on the verge of cancelling though - not because they don't like the game or are bored, but simply because they absolutely cannot login successfully in a reasonable amount of time :(
I originally wasn't going to post this purely out of negativity's sake... but then I got this (attached image) and I just had to post, it's too awesome :lol: I'll be advertising on TRADE from now on that I want at least Z free slots on any items :D
Dargeshaad
17-08-05, 15:54
Same problems I've been having for a looooong time
same here for all the above, including the z slotted psi module. Was really bad last night. My favorite is to have -40 sum freeload because I all of a sudden have 250 trash grenade in my Inventory :rolleyes:
Just before the last patch it has taken me 2 logins in order to be able to play. On the first login I am at 50/80 and stuck in sync, but I am fine when I zone/relog. And no, I haven't changed anything on my PC [ edited ]
will try this weekend but it can be a firewall / antivirus issue if .exe files have been updated... maybe.
Seraphin[69]
17-08-05, 16:38
I want a Z slotted psi spell too !
will try this weekend but it can be a firewall / antivirus issue if .exe files have been updated... maybe.
I don't have either installed, and my router settings haven't changed either so its not that.
I rarely get any login issues, maybe once every few days. iirc -FN-, you use Trillian, if you are, NC and Trillian are at odds with each other. I used trillian for a few days a couple weeks ago, NC was fine then after about 3 days of use I started getting login issues to the point where at times the game refused to start. Stopped using trillian, its been fine since.
So that may be worth a try..
You know, you should let us run packet loggers and send the info to you. Then you'd be able to trace the problems we are having instead of relying on your "test server".
Disturbed21
17-08-05, 17:45
I have posted many many times that I have had the 50/80 and inventory bugs for months and months now. I keep waiting for the patch that fixes it :rolleyes: I honestly don't remember how many months I've been back but I've had these login problems since day one of coming back.....just fyi I have the same setup I had when I played back a year ago - when there weren't any login problems :rolleyes:
The most logical explaination, so far, is that the server isn't able to get my char info back to my client in a timely manner or its corrupt when it gets back to me. Maybe this has something to do with the server load or the load on the net?
I don't know. I do know during peak times I can spend over 30 mins trying to login but during off-peak I can usually log right the first or second time...
I know FN and I have talked about these bugs for several months now and the only work-around is to log out near a clickable zone.
If you then get some sort of bug on log your info (inventory, stats, implants, etc) can get sorted upon zoning.
Sometimes I can login 30+ times and get the 50/80 bug every flippin' time!
But, if I logged out near a clickable zone I can login just once with the 50/80 bug, click on the zone and when it finally zones me across everything is sorted, until I fatal nowhere near a clickable zone that is.
Why is logging in treated so differently from zoning?
/edit patch specific; I fatal constantly when using the Citycom now. If I click more than just a few buttons, like looking up multiple clans under info, I'll certainly fatal.
Tried deleting some of those skill advisor emails and between deleting 4-8 I fatal everytime.
+ they send me more, I think everytime I get the 50/80 bug they send me one :rolleyes: On my researcher I now have 183 emails....got it down to 162 the other day.
I've onyl recently started getting the problems you describe, and I get them regardless of how full the server is.
Its almost as if the part of the server code responsible for sending all the player data is creating corrupt packets, but that is being caused by a fault in the loop it probably runs everytime you log in, hence it getting progressively worse since the beginning of NC2.
Maybe the packets aren't being sequenced properly or something.
iirc -FN-, you use Trillian, if you are, NC and Trillian are at odds with each other.
I wish I used Trillian :( I'll try eliminating apps one by one, but that doens't change the fact that I'm an incredble minimalist and most likely, if it's an app, it's required.
And I have to back Dist on this - it's a LOGGING IN issue. If I log near a clickable zone, 90% of the time my character will be "correct" after zoning.
Come to think of it, the "can't right click on login" bug is gone. I've not gotten it in weeks upon weeks. It's just down to the 50/80 bug and missing inventory/armor/implants/quickbelt items.
I'm telling you, it's something related to the login process - zoning, even when BUGGED, will fix it O_o
Yes I get these problems too, but analysing when and why these problems happen is hard. Is it because of:
- Busy times
- Busy zones
- Full Inventories
- Specific characters
- Ping (Locale)
Personally, I've found that my PE gets it loads, while my PPU (who I use the most) gets it very rarely. This is from the UK at peak times. I reiterate that this problem was not present in Neocron 1.
My current tactic to avoid this problem is to log off in quiet zones (ie not Tech Haven Sec-2) as this seems to prevent it most of the time. Could just be random though.
You know, you should let us run packet loggers and send the info to you. Then you'd be able to trace the problems we are having instead of relying on your "test server".
Who says we only rely on the test server?
I'm telling you, it's something related to the login process - zoning, even when BUGGED, will fix it O_o
This I'm aware of,
Just for some reason I thought you used Trillian as well which does some screwy things with NC, hell it even stopped my Offline client from running and that doesn't even require the net.
My current tactic to avoid this problem is to log off in quiet zones (ie not Tech Haven Sec-2) as this seems to prevent it most of the time. Could just be random though.
When I'm not thinking, I log off in apartments. I get the login issues very frequently there. And my apartment is pretty quiet ;)
Just for some reason I thought you used Trillian as well which does some screwy things with NC, hell it even stopped my Offline client from running and that doesn't even require the net.
I do use Gaim. That's the only app I can think of that would have a conflict. I will extensively test my Internet Apps when I get home tonight and finish reinstalling XP (I'm desperate :P).
To my knowledge, Dist doesn't run any Chat programs though - @ Dist: when you're in the thick of having login issues, take a screenshot of your Task Manage and a screenshot of a DOS window after you type "netstat" in it - maybe we can pick something out. I <3 teh Dist, don't leavez0r :(
Who says we only rely on the test server?
Well that implies you've been doing something about it, but we've yet to see any results. Login bugs have been in existance since NC1, but now, when they are actually more frequent than the FRE, is something being done about it :rolleyes:
And anyway, the hint at you only using the test server is because every patch thats been released so far has caused at least one problem, even if it is minor, on at least one person's computer. Kinda shows the test server is only being used, because you wouldn't release a patch if you knew there was something wrong with it, now would you? :rolleyes:
Disturbed21
17-08-05, 18:20
To my knowledge, Dist doesn't run any Chat programs though - @ Dist: when you're in the thick of having login issues, take a screenshot of your Task Manage and a screenshot of a DOS window after you type "netstat" in it - maybe we can pick something out. I <3 teh Dist, don't leavez0r :(
I run nothing other than NC, well sometimes vent.
One comp has a brand new harddrive with win2k, the other comp just got its harddrive reformatted and runs winXP, very little on either comp other than NC.
Don't really think it will help but I'll take screenies tonight.
Still no stack of grenades, but I just tried to login...
Six 50/80 logins, then a login with this (attached image) thing, then the 7th was successful.
[PiN]Fluffy
17-08-05, 22:07
Same problems I've been having for a looooong time
Yup have had same problems since i can remember
[PiN]Fluffy
17-08-05, 22:11
Ok, I can't tell if it's just me or not...
Since the patch, I have not been able to log in successfully on my first try, once. Every time I get one or a combination of the following:
- The 50/80 Bug
- Missing Armor/Implants
- Missing Random Inventory Items
- Missing QB
- Cannot use any QB Items
- Fatal Runtime Error after relogging at least 10 times.
All of my characters, including my PPU, have died due to logging in and being killed by mobs/players because I was either in perma-synch and coudln't fight back/defend, can't use my QB items to fight back/defend, or had no QB at all so I couldn't do shit. Is it just me? How many people are having NO problems logging in? Please speak up, I want to know there is hope :( If I'm the only one or there are very few problem people with many completely successful people, then I won't mind as much... it is sad that several SXR are on the verge of cancelling though - not because they don't like the game or are bored, but simply because they absolutely cannot login successfully in a reasonable amount of time :(
I originally wasn't going to post this purely out of negativity's sake... but then I got this (attached image) and I just had to post, it's too awesome :lol: I'll be advertising on TRADE from now on that I want at least Z free slots on any items :D
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=124512 This is when the problem got really bad for me.
I do use Gaim. That's the only app I can think of that would have a conflict. I will extensively test my Internet Apps when I get home tonight and finish reinstalling XP (I'm desperate :P).
Doesn't conflict afaik. I'm running an older version though, as a new version was fucking up for me (not NC related)....
I rarely get any login issues, maybe once every few days. iirc -FN-, you use Trillian, if you are, NC and Trillian are at odds with each other. I used trillian for a few days a couple weeks ago, NC was fine then after about 3 days of use I started getting login issues to the point where at times the game refused to start. Stopped using trillian, its been fine since.
So that may be worth a try..
We use vent, is there maybe issues with vent we dont know about???
Seal
We use vent, is there maybe issues with vent we dont know about???
I can't use Ventrilo at work and that's where my my worst login issues happen.
Same problems I've been having for a looooong time
Yeap, over 3 months now.
Who says we only rely on the test server?
As mentioned above, this problem has existed for 3+ months now. I have time and time and time again asked if we could be apprised as to the status of this problem.
I personally believe that the staff is doing NOTHING to resolve this issue. It should have been the #1 Priority. You have members that at times spend 10-30 minutes trying to login to the game.
While this problem has been on and off as of late, every few days it comes back full force at one point or another causing massive login problems.
I for one have had enough after my continual problems over the past 3 months and lack of response from the staff on the status update on the issue. Since KK has let this problem drop to the bottom of the list (putting out multiple other patches prior to a serious problems resolution), I'll let my payments to KK fall to the bottom of my list.
I can't use Ventrilo at work and that's where my my worst login issues happen.
Maybe thats a sign! Playing video games at work... Damn that is low :p.
Dargeshaad
17-08-05, 23:26
Maybe thats a sign! Playing video games at work... Damn that is low :p.
Almost as bad as power posting on forums for said games??? :p
PS: that was not a directed at you ;)
same problems everyone has been complaining about for ages, even people in my clan who dont complain still have these problems.
simplest solution ive found is move forward then relog seems to fix most inventory problems, even after trying to relog and restarting computer doesnt fix it moving a couple of steps does.
when we played on the asian server it was simple even if we did get a buggy log, 1st relog and it was fixed again but then tha ping was 200 instead of 400 or now 500 since the last patch and as high as 700 constant for some clan memebers.
ive found it doesnt matter if your running a clean system or loaded with apps these problems still happen, and just as much on the clean systems.
It takes me about 3 times to login somtimes, but thats it.
I don't have any of the bugs you guys have... but I do have 3 that not many people seem to have.
1. Vehicles seem to move but actually don't (at least mine). If I jump on a hovtec and drive around I can leave the zone line and such, drive into places no one should be in. Then soon as I jump off my hovtec both me and the hovtec fly straight back to the asg where I started. Using dx7 instead of dx9 fixes this but I shouldn't have to use dx7! dx9 was a NC2 feature! I heard this has something to do with Windows XP SP2, but uninstalling it isn't an option.
2. Sound bug. Some strange sound in NC2 (I think it's the psi casting sound, but I'm not sure) messes up the sound on my system. Once it plays, ALL the sound, music and effects on my entire computer are messed up. They sound slightly distorted and about 25% slower than usual. Quitting NC doesn't fix it. Only way I can fix it is to restart my computer... so I haven't used sound since NC1. I've installed the newest sound drivers, old sound drivers, anything that might possibly work. I've even formatted my comp just to try and fix this bug, but it still plagues me. So ... no sound effects for me. That's annoying, a big part of the game is sounds and I can't hear anything in NC. :mad:
3. Zone-in bug. When I zone in from a clickable zone (such as undergrounds, noob epic places and hunting areas) I can't move for about 30 seconds. If I try I take a few steps then warp back to the entrance much like the vehicle bug in that I'm not actually moving but my computer thinks I am for a few seconds. Eventually I can run around as normal... but everyone sees me as standing still. I can cast and stealth and shoot but I cannot move. You might imagine how that makes me an easy target for PKers and in opfights. :mad:
Any fixes for those 3 problems comming in a new patch? PLEASE?
I don't have any of the bugs you guys have... but I do have 3 that not many people seem to have.
1. Vehicles seem to move but actually don't (at least mine). If I jump on a hovtec and drive around I can leave the zone line and such, drive into places no one should be in. Then soon as I jump off my hovtec both me and the hovtec fly straight back to the asg where I started. Using dx7 instead of dx9 fixes this but I shouldn't have to use dx7! dx9 was a NC2 feature! I heard this has something to do with Windows XP SP2, but uninstalling it isn't an option.
I had the same problem driveing in DX7 works
I had the same problem driveing in DX7 works
Yeah I play in dx7 without sound. That is a work around for two of my three bugs, but they definately SUCK.
I havnt noticed any higher amount of login/sync/whatever problems since the last patch. Most of the times I can login perfectly at first try just as always.
One thing Ive noticed though is that the game sometimes (like once a day) locks up completely when Im trying to login (just after I clicked On Terra and before the charlist shows up). This bug wasnt in the game before I left on my WoW break about 3 months ago but it was in the game when I came back (patch 140).
And yes, Ive been using Trillian for atleast 5 months with no problems with either NC or anything else.
I frequently get login issues and with 2 accounts kinda gets a bit annoying!
For every hour i spend playing i must spend 10-15 mins of it dealing with perma synch, no items stats or inventory bug :(
It has got worse for me over the past months, something as we all know is definately up.
Maybe NC is doomed, constantly creating bolt on fixes over time has led to an unstable system.
*Awaits kk announcement "NC3 built from scratch to eradicate Synch/Fatal Issues"
2. Sound bug. Some strange sound in NC2 (I think it's the psi casting sound, but I'm not sure) messes up the sound on my system. Once it plays, ALL the sound, music and effects on my entire computer are messed up. They sound slightly distorted and about 25% slower than usual. Quitting NC doesn't fix it. Only way I can fix it is to restart my computer... so I haven't used sound since NC1. I've installed the newest sound drivers, old sound drivers, anything that might possibly work. I've even formatted my comp just to try and fix this bug, but it still plagues me. So ... no sound effects for me. That's annoying, a big part of the game is sounds and I can't hear anything in NC. :mad:
For me its actually the opposite. The sound made me crash alot in NC1 but after they remade something with the sound in NC2 it works well for me.
3. Zone-in bug. When I zone in from a clickable zone (such as undergrounds, noob epic places and hunting areas) I can't move for about 30 seconds. If I try I take a few steps then warp back to the entrance much like the vehicle bug in that I'm not actually moving but my computer thinks I am for a few seconds. Eventually I can run around as normal... but everyone sees me as standing still. I can cast and stealth and shoot but I cannot move. You might imagine how that makes me an easy target for PKers and in opfights. :mad:
Are you using Omega Drivers? This is a common problem with those and some others. Try to enable vertical sync since that helps alot of people (including myself).
3. Zone-in bug. When I zone in from a clickable zone (such as undergrounds, noob epic places and hunting areas) I can't move for about 30 seconds. If I try I take a few steps then warp back to the entrance much like the vehicle bug in that I'm not actually moving but my computer thinks I am for a few seconds. Eventually I can run around as normal... but everyone sees me as standing still. I can cast and stealth and shoot but I cannot move. You might imagine how that makes me an easy target for PKers and in opfights. :mad:
As Orion mentioned this is a vsync issue. ;)
I dont really get login bugs. I am on xp pro sp1 (dont want sp2 on my games machine, it seemed to really mess up my laptop's internet settings with all this damn security I dont need).
That said, I've made about 5 or 6 characters since I got NC2 a few months ago and not a single one didnt sync out on first login.
I did have some problem in TH where I paid for GR somewhere and it didnt take me (although took my money) - then I could no longer right click on any doors to open them so I was stuck in TH. Eventually I started syncing and ended up somewhere else in TH sec 2 but GR failed again so I relogged.
My major concern with NC is the huge amount of memory leaks I get, I also cant stand those stupid lines from my crosshair to mobs, it's not so immersive when you can see a graphics glitch across your screen about 70% of the time you're in the wastes.
Added a poll to the thread - please vote accordingly!
Richard Blade
18-08-05, 18:29
Chose North America, barely any issues.
However, before the patch, I was suffering all of the types of synch login issues and right click bug. It was horrible and I was thinking of quiting.
I've had one 80/50 synch bug with no imps, inventory, soul light...etc since the patch.
I'm happier, but it's still on the forefront of my mind.
No, I'm not using it as a threat to KK. Just a statement.
Maester Seymour
18-08-05, 18:58
2. Sound bug. Some strange sound in NC2 (I think it's the psi casting sound, but I'm not sure) messes up the sound on my system. Once it plays, ALL the sound, music and effects on my entire computer are messed up. They sound slightly distorted and about 25% slower than usual. Quitting NC doesn't fix it. Only way I can fix it is to restart my computer... so I haven't used sound since NC1. I've installed the newest sound drivers, old sound drivers, anything that might possibly work. I've even formatted my comp just to try and fix this bug, but it still plagues me. So ... no sound effects for me. That's annoying, a big part of the game is sounds and I can't hear anything in NC. :mad:
"Settings > Control Panel > Sounds & Audio devices properties > Advanced.. (speaker settings) > Performance > Hardware acceleration: None"
Give that a try, i used to have the exact same problem with NC and doing the above solved it for me. :)
I've had like one login problem since I started playing again a while ago.
(This is where they're going to start, right?)
can we get a command line plumbed in like
set loggin_error 1
wich will auto rezone us to our current zone but only works within 20 seconds of login to avoid exploits or sumin as a temporary fix?
that said i have never tryed a reset position when bugged on login, maby it would be worth waiting the 60 seconds
i rarely if ever get the probelms but hate listening to ma mates shouting FFS sync SYNC ARGH 50/50 SYCH SYCH ARGHHHHH
"Settings > Control Panel > Sounds & Audio devices properties > Advanced.. (speaker settings) > Performance > Hardware acceleration: None"
Give that a try, i used to have the exact same problem with NC and doing the above solved it for me. :)
I'll try that, thanks
Orion"]Are you using Omega Drivers? This is a common problem with those and some others. Try to enable vertical sync since that helps alot of people (including myself).
Nope, clean format, standard drivers.. but I'll try enable vsync.
Edit: Can't figure out how to enable vsync... using standard ati 9600m driverse.
I get random log-in bugs, takes two or three tries to get logged in and this only happens once a week or so. My ping is about 124ms on average give or take 20ms
Okay, using your sound fix worked! When I switch to an item in my qb, it plays the sound twice though... :confused: And vehicle revving up to higher RPMs isn't smooth, it's choppy.
I got omega drivers for my comp and forcing vsync fixed my zone-in problems. yay!
And I still have to use dx7 to drive vehicles... using dx9 won't even spawn vehicles anymore.
But... now I can't play in windowed. The option for windowed mode doesn't exist.
I am in New Zealand (routing = NZ -> Los Angeles -> New York -> London -> Germany) and since this last batch of patches I have noticed the login bugs have increased slightly from "hardly ever" to "not very often". However I am getting the rubber-band issue when I did not before. This is not only after zoning (although it always seems to happen then) but also occurs to a lesser degree when just running around on faster characters.
If it was just a latency/distance issue I would have expected myself and a clannie in Australia to suffer the major login problems as bad as the worst cases here, but we don't.
I have WinXP on a 3GHz P4, with 1GB of Dual Channel Low Latency RAM, 256MB vid card, 3068MB swap file on a separate drive, run NC2 in DX7, on a tweaked 256/128 aDSL connection.
Seems to me the problem may well be either;
A: computer/modem/ISP specific
B: client specific
C: multi-account/OS specific
OBSERVATION: I notice that am more likely to get these login problems when changing between accounts on one computer than between characters on the same account. I have 2 accounts and run them from 2 computers. If I am on account #1 on computer #1 and decide to log onto account #2 on computer #1, I am more likely to get the synclock or 50/80 bug. This may occur even if I logged out of account #1 the night before, turned off the modem, went to sleep for 8 hours, rebooted the computer, turned the modem on and decided at login to to log into the other account. The two people I play with who are experiencing these problems most severely have multiple accounts, although they get the problem when switching between characters on one account as well as switching between accounts. They will also get it when trying to resume on the same character after hours of being logged off and having rebooted their computer(s). One has 2 accounts and uses one computer to switch between accounts (he has Win2K OS). The other has 3 accounts and uses 2 computers (don't know what OS he has). The point I am making? The problem may be tied to switching between accounts and/or the operating system. Do multi-account users with Win2k have more problems than those with WinXP? Do multi-account users with Win98 have no problems whatsoever?
(Users with WinME are just asking for trouble anyway :D)
i live approx. 400km from KK serwers and my login tries varies between 3-5 (absolute minimum :/) to anywhere near 100+ (i usually give up after 15 mins, so its hard to say really)
Bugs Gunny
19-08-05, 09:52
I read through all the posts and the link.
What actualy pisses me off is that we are PAYING customers with a VALID complaint about an issue that KK caused, not our internet providers, not our computerhardware, and we sure as hell don't have the same issue with all the other games and software we run.
YET, KK prefer to close threads with silly remarks like :"It's your ventrilo" or "log out for 5 minutes". We probably play the game more than they do, and yes, we know all about loging out so the character disappears. We probably know more workarounds for problems than they do, yet they won't listen. Stop treating us like kids who know nothing about computers, networking and software.
Want proof of the fact we know more about workarounds etc for the game?
Check the history of exploits PLAYERS found, which KK failed to see.
How about you guys seriously start LISTENING and fixing this, instead of trying to please people with bloody trophies and a woc knuckle.
I remember starting the game back in NC1, wondering why all those people complained on the forums. Then i myself started getting aware of all the broken promises, constant reintroduction of old bugs and upcomming new bugs. All this leads to a very disgruntled playerbase.
You guys don't know how lucky you are that there's no real NC like game out yet, but we are all looking forward to certain releases. WOW took a lot of the players, and that's not even scifi.
The only players you have left after the move to NC2 is the hardcore fans, who stuck with the game and all its bugs. When competition starts realy exploring this marketsegment you'll want SATISFIED customers who will stay with the game. I seriously don't know of any satisfied customers in my personal list.
FN, outta curiosity, how olds your install, and when did you last run a full file check on it ?
I read through all the posts and the link.
What actualy pisses me off is that we are PAYING customers with a VALID complaint about an issue that KK caused, not our internet providers, not our computerhardware, and we sure as hell don't have the same issue with all the other games and software we run.
YET, KK prefer to close threads with silly remarks like :"It's your ventrilo" or "log out for 5 minutes". We probably play the game more than they do, and yes, we know all about loging out so the character disappears. We probably know more workarounds for problems than they do, yet they won't listen. Stop treating us like kids who know nothing about computers, networking and software.
Want proof of the fact we know more about workarounds etc for the game?
Check the history of exploits PLAYERS found, which KK failed to see.
How about you guys seriously start LISTENING and fixing this, instead of trying to please people with bloody trophies and a woc knuckle.
I remember starting the game back in NC1, wondering why all those people complained on the forums. Then i myself started getting aware of all the broken promises, constant reintroduction of old bugs and upcomming new bugs. All this leads to a very disgruntled playerbase.
You guys don't know how lucky you are that there's no real NC like game out yet, but we are all looking forward to certain releases. WOW took a lot of the players, and that's not even scifi.
The only players you have left after the move to NC2 is the hardcore fans, who stuck with the game and all its bugs. When competition starts realy exploring this marketsegment you'll want SATISFIED customers who will stay with the game. I seriously don't know of any satisfied customers in my personal list.
Words of wisdom. I know that if I ever got into a line of work involving game development, I'd push for a game that was an MMORPFPS based in the future, so that I could be a part of a game that I could help make it work. I bet the NC Alpha client FRE'd as soon as you logged in and displayed the "Hello World!" message :rolleyes:
I read through all the posts and the link.
What actualy pisses me off is that we are PAYING customers with a VALID complaint about an issue that KK caused, not our internet providers, not our computerhardware, and we sure as hell don't have the same issue with all the other games and software we run.
YET, KK prefer to close threads with silly remarks like :"It's your ventrilo" or "log out for 5 minutes". We probably play the game more than they do, and yes, we know all about loging out so the character disappears. We probably know more workarounds for problems than they do, yet they won't listen. Stop treating us like kids who know nothing about computers, networking and software.
Want proof of the fact we know more about workarounds etc for the game?
Check the history of exploits PLAYERS found, which KK failed to see.
How about you guys seriously start LISTENING and fixing this, instead of trying to please people with bloody trophies and a woc knuckle.
I remember starting the game back in NC1, wondering why all those people complained on the forums. Then i myself started getting aware of all the broken promises, constant reintroduction of old bugs and upcomming new bugs. All this leads to a very disgruntled playerbase.
This is bullshit and it pisses me off. It pisses me off because it's no longer true, hasn't been for a long time and is therefore just a lazy troll. We accepted that these issues exist in the product a long time ago and as I've said many times in the last few weeks we have a developer doing nothing else but to track them down.
I have stated time and time again since I became Community Liaison that the responsibility lies on us to resolve these problems so the accusation above is crap. Why should I spend my time and energy communicating here when certain people choose to just ignore everything I say in order to earn troll points?
Dirus posted a suggestion for someone to stop running Trillian because a few days before he found Trillian to be the cause of his NC crashing on startup. That is a plain fact. When someone posted a similar problem should he have kept that information to himself for fear of angering people like Bugs Gunny or should he try and help? Unhelpful people have never lasted long in KK or the volunteer team and we always try our best, even in the face of ridicule and baseless accusations.
The accusation quoted above was perfectly justified at one time but now it's nothing more than words designed to provoke.
N
/edit
Words of wisdom. Quelle surprise. :rolleyes:
Still no news on being allowed to log packets to help with the sync problems...
Quelle surprise. :rolleyes:
Whats a surprise to me is the quick response of "lets cover our tracks so we don't lose anymore customers". I mean, you (KK) must be doing such a good job with NC2 that this many people are leaving so they don't stealth all the wealth and glory of playing this fabulous bug free game.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but we don't want this game to die from incompetence :rolleyes:
Disturbed21
19-08-05, 11:46
We accepted that these issues exist in the product a long time ago and as I've said many times in the last few weeks we have a developer doing nothing else but to track them down.
I do understand that you guys are working on the issue and I do appreciate it, however, as a paying customer it is extremely frustrating to have to deal with this type of issue.....for 4 months now. Sometimes ppl just need to vent and I'm sure that's what Bugs was doing.
I think alot of ppl are really ticked off about this particular bug because it seems as tho it didn't always exist, at least not for me.
I started playing back in Dec 02 and never had a single login problem until maybe 4 months ago. Which makes it seem like it shouldn't be that hard to track down, then again I'm not a computer expert so I can't really say.
What I do know is that this particular bug needs to be at the top of your list, which it may or may not be. Updates would be a good thing to try and keep those ppl that it effects the most aware of any progress. Saying you have one guy working on it isn't enough for me at this point.
After 4 months of this bug, I still don't know if any progress has been made. I will most likely cancel my accounts next week. I'm a die-hard fan so I'll probably be back once this bug gets sorted, but this has gone on way too long for me.
How can you guys expect to attract new players with this sort of bug? People can't even get in the game to try it out.....
What interests me the most about all of the problems people are getting is that they are noticeably different from Neocron 1. Nid, perhaps the coder guy who is working on it can compare the two? I'm thinking more about the configuration of the server (?) which handles the logins of users.
In Neocron 1 we had a lot of data corruption issues (rollbacks) and many more fatals. Also, there was the server-wide lag spikes, and you knew it was happening because OOC was spammed by everyone going 'laaaaag'. But I don't see these problems for Neocron anymore. So thats progress.
Now I admittedly know nothing about the game, and how it works, and the internet either, but I have two rough theories:
1)There are less people online now than in Neocron 1. But was the client-server update rate lowered for Neocron 2, and is this delay in update which we see causing problems with combat (the 5 second delay mentioned in other threads) also the cause for the login problems? When you log in, there is that half a second 'hiccup' as your items are all loaded (your character seems to come down from mid-air). Is there some kind of timeout on that (0.5 seconds) which is too intolerant for the data to be fed back to the client in time?
2) I made a test yesterday. Normally my logins are fine (5% problem for me in non-busy zones), so I started downloading a big movie trailer and tried to log in to Neocron at the same time - I had the empty inventory problem straight away. Now this is weird because most people's internet speeds are 5 times faster than they were a few years ago.
However, one thing I have noticed is that despite speeds going up, the initial response to internet activity (for instance clicking on a link) has gone down for me. When I first got broadband I was most likely the first in my area to have it, and it was lightning fast. These days 50% of the country has broadband, and thats a lot more traffic for certain routers to handle efficiently. I've got a funny feeling that the initial traffic is not quick enough for the client and server to get the data exchanged in time. Dirus's post about tracing for bottlenecks makes some sense in this case.
Perhaps some of you are more versed in Internet connection theory than I am, and can comment on the bottlenecks that internet users have these days, regardless of advertised connection speed.
So in summary I have these two theories, and I think its a combination of both the software and our connections which is causing the problems. I just hope KK can find the solution, because as Disturbed says, its causing a lot of pessimism in the playerbase.
YET, KK prefer to close threads with silly remarks like :"It's your ventrilo" or "log out for 5 minutes". We probably play the game more than they do, and yes, we know all about loging out so the character disappears. We probably know more workarounds for problems than they do, yet they won't listen. Stop treating us like kids who know nothing about computers, networking and software.
Want proof of the fact we know more about workarounds etc for the game?
Check the history of exploits PLAYERS found, which KK failed to see.Slow down. Let's change the viewpoint. Imagine you are a developer of a software product, maybe even a MMORPG. Now you get complaints about connection issues, login misbehaviour etc. What can you do? Just have a look at this comic strip (http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20050815). The thread(s) FN created lately are actually going into the right direction. Which means saying THAT you have problems (and complaining about them) is one thing, saying WHAT exactly happens (without complaining, but pure facts) is another and actually helpful to KK, the game and thus to you as a "paying customer".
Secondly, the players do know more about workarounds and exploits of the game (in most cases). Just count up how many hours the KK staff plays and how many hours the whole userbase is playing.
How about you guys seriously start LISTENING and fixing this, instead of trying to please people with bloody trophies and a woc knuckle.They are listening. To me it seems like this "train" called NC has actually started moving, there is progress.
In the end there are always two questions: Why are you still playing (and paying for) this game if you are so pissed about it? What did you do to help KK nail the problems down and fix them?
As question to KK: I'm at a loss where to report bugs etc. We have the bug section in the forum, we do have an ingame bug report tool, and maybe there is even a mail-address for that(?). Maybe someone could enlighten me about all this, especially because it feels like "talking" to a wall using either of these.
Asurmen Spec Op
19-08-05, 12:04
This is bullshit and it pisses me off. It pisses me off because it's no longer true, hasn't been for a long time and is therefore just a lazy troll. We accepted that these issues exist in the product a long time ago and as I've said many times in the last few weeks we have a developer doing nothing else but to track them down.
I have stated time and time again since I became Community Liaison that the responsibility lies on us to resolve these problems so the accusation above is crap. Why should I spend my time and energy communicating here when certain people choose to just ignore everything I say in order to earn troll points?
Dirus posted a suggestion for someone to stop running Trillian because a few days before he found Trillian to be the cause of his NC crashing on startup. That is a plain fact. When someone posted a similar problem should he have kept that information to himself for fear of angering people like Bugs Gunny or should he try and help? Unhelpful people have never lasted long in KK or the volunteer team and we always try our best, even in the face of ridicule and baseless accusations.
The accusation quoted above was perfectly justified at one time but now it's nothing more than words designed to provoke.
N
/edit Quelle surprise. :rolleyes:
:eek:Holy shit did niddy just flame!
twas a nice flame too
Dargeshaad
19-08-05, 12:11
I'm a bit puzzled in this matter. On one hand at my own apartment I get tons of login bugs each and every single time i try to relog/login. On the other hand I get nada zip zero login bugs at my parents house. Both running Win XP SP2 with the exact same setup (drive image 4tw) and exact same programs running in tray/task manager ie. same antivirus etc., the only difference is the ISP and the way the computer is connected to the internet. At my appartment (Cybercity ADSL 2048/384) it's connected through a router but at my parents house it's through a modem (TDC ADSL 1024/128), I get better ping and less packet loss on my connection at my appartment so that's even more odd. I'm going to try and bypass the router at my appartment to see if that fixes things (not sure if the forwarding of packets from the router to my computer could be causing some problems)
Well I dont have a problem and most of the people i know dont. So just keep your chins up, kk's tryin there best. Ive never seen such a comunity thats seemed to sound like the game has been doomed, even after its out lived the games that would "kill" neocron.
I'm a bit puzzled in this matter. On one hand at my own apartment I get tons of login bugs each and every single time i try to relog/login. On the other hand I get nada zip zero login bugs at my parents house. Both running Win XP SP2 with the exact same setup (drive image 4tw) and exact same programs running in tray/task manager ie. same antivirus etc., the only difference is the ISP and the way the computer is connected to the internet. At my appartment (Cybercity ADSL 2048/384) it's connected through a router but at my parents house it's through a modem (TDC ADSL 1024/128), I get better ping and less packet loss on my connection at my appartment so that's even more odd. I'm going to try and bypass the router at my appartment to see if that fixes things (not sure if the forwarding of packets from the router to my computer could be causing some problems)
In NC1 I had all these sync problems, it took ages for me to find the problem and it was the router. I changed that, and no more sync problems (nor fatals at zoning, which I think are very closely tied to sync errors). I dont know what it is, but there is something funny going on in the network code.
For anyone who still has a modem (I'm sure they are built in to the majority of modern motherboards), try dialing into one of the free isps to see if your sync problems disappear. The bad thing is, there is no current way of knowing which routers will work. It would be good to have a definitive compatibility list on routers and neocron. It might help KK in reproducing the problem at their offices if they can test against some known problem router(s).
Bugs Gunny
19-08-05, 12:53
In the end there are always two questions: Why are you still playing (and paying for) this game if you are so pissed about it? What did you do to help KK nail the problems down and fix them?
1. I prepaid for about a year, because it was cheaper. Accounts run out in october. Am i looking for another game to play? Take a guess.... The only reason i'm still playing this game is because my friends play it, but more and more are quiting.
2. In fear of possible hacks and exploits they prevent us from doing anything to nail down the problem. All we can do is report it on the forums or send an email to support. Besides, we PAY for them to fix things. If we were actively tracking down bugs and fixing them they would have to pay us for it.
I work in the IT business. I've seen some bad programming in my life and some realy stupid things. Hell, i fucked up bigtime with computers before.
When people make mistakes they usualy trace them backwards in time from when they started apearing. How hard can it be to go back into the patch which started it all and check what was altered, to possibly reverse the change?
And i admit i'm a disgruntled player. Why? Because i have the right to be one.
I still feel like i've been sold a sportscar with all the options missing and a flat tire, where the salesperson had me pay for the full option version. I'll keep on driving it, untill another company comes out with a sportscar that's better.
I have absolutely no loyalty to KK when it comes to competition.
When i do the sumation of the good things they did and the times they screwed us over, i don't feel they earned my loyalty.
Nidhogg, i'm sorry if i piss you off with my posts, but put yourself in our position and look at the history from nc1 till now. You are definitely doing a good job at communicating, but i just can't shake the feeling that KK management thinks we're all idiots paying for their product. Wanna see the peak moments of customers near rioting? Go look up the planfile dates and notice how those pieces of fiction were used as a "hush now".
One of the basic rules of running a company is having a solid VISION and a STRATEGY to suit it. It seems to me like KK's vision changes every quarter when financial reports come in. And strategy? Hey, every monday morning at the office can bring something new, no?
well i guess we all knew KK propaganda all too well. But it doesnt change anything.
People will vote with their money and accounts, as they did before and as they are doing at this very moment probably. Steady decrease of people playing this game (since the beggining of nc1) tell more than it is really needed. And sadly, with such attitude KK wont be able to reverse this process...
However I am getting the rubber-band issue when I did not before. This is not only after zoning (although it always seems to happen then) but also occurs to a lesser degree when just running around on faster characters.
Thanks for posting and not reading any of the comments ;)
You need to enable vsync in your video card drivers. It will resolve the issue.
Mr Friendly
19-08-05, 16:12
we have a developer doing nothing else but to track them down.
so for this prob thats been in-game since it was released in dec 2002, & hasnt been fixed & if i may say they've gotten a tad worse, ...you have, A developer trying to fix it....just one... .. :rolleyes:
ahh again i say all change ur isp to vigin net ^_^ i sync fatal crash and everything when my putters round my mates houses, even if i bring my own adls router with the modem built in (because they have crappy usb modems) unless i use my isp the interweb sucks for neocron
VIRGIN NET ALL THE WAY wooot lol
so for this prob thats been in-game since it was released in dec 2002, & hasnt been fixed & if i may say they've gotten a tad worse, ...you have, A developer trying to fix it....just one... .. :rolleyes:
I see your concern to some extent. Often in development, too many developers will just increase the time it takes to solve a problem. I imagine the network code needs to be reviewed and more than one developer could be useful in this aspect, but it is quite easy to tread on peoples toes. More resource doesnt necessarily mean a quicker result.
Thanks for posting and not reading any of the comments ;)
You need to enable vsync in your video card drivers. It will resolve the issue.
I did read the comments. V-Sync is on, it has always been on. I only started rubber-banding since these last patches.
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