the rl reason, why ppl..

[Hoernerice]

...think, the classes are unbalnce.
i not rl think, that a class is overpowerd. everyclass has its special rule, the good and bad sides.
i think the problem at mom is the art of op fights, wich give us the feeling the chars are unblanced.
how a op-fight run today:
clan A hack first barrier, or dmg a turret. clan B get info "we are under atack" and gr in the ug from the op, wich is under atack. after clan B is ready (all chars in the op, all buffed and so on) they sync up, out from the ug.clan A is just waiting in front of the ug and is barrel it.half from the ppl wich in clan B have sync porblems. so most ppl wich sync up, loose half of their hlt, before they did anything.
-> class like spy and pe, seem to be underpowerd. the rule for this 2 classes are: never go in infights vs a tank or a monk. monks and tanks wich loose bit hlt dont intrest. they can still fight. but pes should stand away from the infights without full hlt. also the spy and the pe need the sd from ppu to stand alive. but mostly, when they come up, they get anits.
so i think class are balanced, as they have to be in their nc story meaning. ok here and there they bit overpowerd. but in hole they balanced. or can u tell me, why a pe/spy should win a infight vs a tank, wich have same player skill? or why should u could kill a ppu..... a art of "paladin".
so when u want to get balance. make the old ug (and gr) rules. that give more intresting fights, with more different char classes, then the mom system.
hope u understand, what i tried to say ;)

[Skusty]

-> class like spy and pe, seem to be underpowerd. the rule for this 2 classes are: never go in infights vs a tank or a monk
Errr i kick tank asses in opfights on spy :p Drug + ppubuff = yay tank dead in notime, monks r easy to :lol:

[Hoernerice]

not when u sync out of ug, and have anti and barrel on u..... when u outside and have full support, why not.... pistol pe also good in this case.

[LTA]

not when u sync out of ug,

Why we have stealth..... long as the sync is quick can dodge the anti stealth buffed up can survive enough barrel to get out the way cast a heal n return

[Hoernerice]

i have never saw a spy, wich stood long alive, after he came out of ug.

[MaGn0lia]

Then you haven't seen my spy :D Or any other good spy for that matter, sure barrels hurt but only chance them to get you right away when you exit the UG is if they para you and spam you with rockets since spies fear force.

[LTA]

i have never saw a spy, wich stood long alive, after he came out of ug.

Well ya wont see much come out the ug since am stealthed i see plenty do it barrels dont insta stack so if ya quick enough and synchs in your favour u can get away with 1/2 stacks

[Jesterthegreat]

there are 3 situations where a non-monk is better than a monk.

1. hacknet.

2. tradeskilling (debatable on what kind of difference the dex makes. i've had many things csted by a monk, and ressing works fine. recycling is only a req and repping is easily possible as a monk)

3. long, long range combat.


any other situation, monks are better.



that, combined with less skill needed to play one, combined with the lack of reticle, combined with the lack of line of sight, combined with para... is the reason i personally think they are an inbalance.

[Hoernerice]

when the fights, just inside the op aorund the ug, u right jester...
otherwise they good support chars from distance. its not nromal, when u tank army fight with the enemy, that one enemy take notice from u, when u sniper form far away. and when he see u, he have other problems, then rushing vs u.

[Jesterthegreat]

when the fights, just inside the op aorund the ug, u right jester...
otherwise they good support chars from distance. its not nromal, when u tank army fight with the enemy, that one enemy take notice from u, when u sniper form far away. and when he see u, he have other problems, then rushing vs u.


i'm talking about every situation.

those are the only 3 situations that i can think of where a non monk > a monk (assuming the monk and non-monk are equally skilled)

[THE_TICK!!!!]

you forgot the one on one scenario jester, i havent seen many monks stand up to PE'S in a one on one situation (talking about apu's of course) as for hoernice's idea he has a point, ive always wanted to see a back interance from the UG, maybe 2, where you can come out somewhere CLOSE or elsewhere in the OP, would make attacking far harder fo you would have to watch from all sides.

[Jesterthegreat]

(talking about apu's of course)

then you arent talking about monks, you are talking about APU's.

i'm talking about monks.

i could say i have never seen an "APU PE" beat a monk in a one on one... wouldnt prove anything :p

i am talking classes here.

:edit: if you disagree gimme some more examples of where non-monk > monk.

and dont say "using a rifle" or things like that... i am talking game situations, not specifics (hence why i put tradeskilling up there when the only one really effected is csting)

[THE_TICK!!!!]

bleh you know EXACTLY what im talkin about you anal retentive )(^(*&()* :) ill contemplate some situations that would non monk> monk...but damnit why you gotta make me type allot of shizzle :(

[Hoernerice]

exampels... we came yesterday, and the day before, from other op to fight soldierz.... it worked. our less good pvp player (f.e. me =P) could do dmg vs. enemy too and stood alive (ok me again not =P)
and u have to differenz between monk and monk. apu and ppu. a apu without a ppu is also fast dead, like spy or pe, without ppu. ppu u need more then one guy to kill.
but the reason for this thread, wasnt that monks overpowerd... it is the other thread, wich say remove pe o.o

[THE_TICK!!!!]

hoernerice, you do realize your avatar is REALLY ugly right ?

[Hoernerice]

dont go of topic. if u want to talk about my avatar, make a thread in offtopic forum, or pm me. thx.

[Crest]

This post ignores 1 serious problem .... A bunch of spies doing some PKing ... and our out numbered 2 to 1 ( thats 3 spies, and 6 others). They were doing very well good kill to being killed ratio, and after alll this,a nd a 2 to 1 adv, someone brings their PPU alt cause they can take being killed by a group of well co-ordinated spies .....

This is not an op war, it was just a little fun .... So there is your problem right there .... PPU's kill the game (Even though I got a Caped PPU with 98 int, I never use him).

PPU's should be used only against mobs, and not against other chars .... that will make thinkgs balanced .....

Mebbe isloate the source of damage, if its from another player, then the PPU bufs are ignored, if its from a Mob they work. Then the only PPU can help you with is a Holy heal .... and holy heal with no buffs could be ok

[aKe`cj]

The effect PPUs have on other people is too great .. no matter wether monk, spy, pe or tank. Naturally the PPU + APU combo shows this best, as the monks weakness is perfectly compensated with ppu support.
Then again, with the current set of rares / damage output you need the PPU to make fights last longer than a second.
I dont mind that the classes are not all the same on the battlefield. Tanks and APUs are the ones dedicated for the frontline - yet there is a slight imbalance between (HC)tanks and monks thus I'd like to see the speed-malus lowered for them + glue-spells removed/weakened.
Spies and PEs are fine imo.
As I said above, the damage output has really gotten insane .. so this is something I'd like to see toned down ...simultaniously weakening the PPUs foreign (holy) heal, def, shelter...
as a consequence a lot of mobs would need a rebalance to.. but well.. it's never gonna happen anyway ;)

[Dribble Joy]

:rolleyes:

[THE_TICK!!!!]

This post ignores 1 serious problem .... A bunch of spies doing some PKing ... and our out numbered 2 to 1 ( thats 3 spies, and 6 others). They were doing very well good kill to being killed ratio, and after alll this,a nd a 2 to 1 adv, someone brings their PPU alt cause they can take being killed by a group of well co-ordinated spies .....

This is not an op war, it was just a little fun .... So there is your problem right there .... PPU's kill the game (Even though I got a Caped PPU with 98 int, I never use him).

PPU's should be used only against mobs, and not against other chars .... that will make thinkgs balanced .....

how did that kill your enjoyment..did you ever think man we are doing pretty good out here if they have to bring a ppu to the forefront to deal with us ? as far as that goes..if you had more than one spy, a ppu shouldn't stand a chance.

[Xylaz]

i'll be serious once in a while.

i have no problems with any classes actually, i dont even have problems with ppu themselves.
the only problem, as we *all* knows, lies in fact that ppu gives too much to others - to the point that if teamA meet teamBwithPPU, team A can lie down and die.
That's the problem. If someone can make the fight-with-ppu less overpowered then it will be all ok.

But like i said, everyone knows that, NC community gave literally hundreds of cool ideas which could lower the ppu influence in game. Some of them were good, some of them were bad, some of them were average.

We have recycled all those ideas too many times it seems. People are simply tired. Everything has its limits, human creativity (and patience) too.

FACT:
Nothing has been done for 2+ years (about ppus).
And *THAT* is the real and only problem here...

[Tostino]

i'll be serious once in a while.

i have no problems with any classes actually, i dont even have problems with ppu themselves.
the only problem, as we *all* knows, lies in fact that ppu gives too much to others - to the point that if teamA meet teamBwithPPU, team A can lie down and die.
That's the problem. If someone can make the fight-with-ppu less overpowered then it will be all ok.

But like i said, everyone knows that, NC community gave literally hundreds of cool ideas which could lower the ppu influence in game. Some of them were good, some of them were bad, some of them were average.

We have recycled all those ideas too many times it seems. People are simply tired. Everything has its limits, human creativity (and patience) too.

FACT:
Nothing has been done for 2+ years (about ppus).
And *THAT* is the real and only problem here...

Hey!! that is not true!... KK have just come up with the great idea of 'fucking up run-casting to fix the ppu's'. :rolleyes:

[Jesterthegreat]

Hey!! that is not true!... KK have just come up with the great idea of 'fucking up run-casting to fix the ppu's'. :rolleyes:


yeah... that idea.

kk seem to know nothing about their game do they?

monk - caps spells.

PE / spy / tank - some cap tl 3 sells, but not all cap em.

who will this nerf effect more, the guys who fully cap their spells or the poor schmucks who dont?

way to fucking go KK. your "monk nerf" nerfed non-monks more than monks.

fact: pre and post patching a ppu could move more while casting a DB and cast it quicker. this gives him more leeway with the nerf / netcode than a PE.

its the same for all spells barring a PE / spy's primes, tl 3 heal and tl3 def (as they actually cap these) and stupid things like tl 1 para.

[ edited ]

listen to the community that plays with or against PPU's everyday.

[Hoernerice]

when u look in the story for the char, only monks and pe should could use any spells....... just as little hint.

[Jesterthegreat]

when u look in the story for the char, only monks and pe should could use any spells....... just as little hint.


actually if you read the char description in the NC1 manuel spies should be better at psi than PE's.

its best not to bother reading info on the game though.

the dome isnt where it should be.
living in a cave taught monks how to bring lightning down from the sky, despite never having seen lightning or a sky before.
spies should have better psi capabilities than PE's.

of course its easy to get out of with "ever evolving world".

[Hoernerice]

u right as always =P i switch in lines as i read it *shame on me*
but with the tanks i was right =)

[Invhunter]

i have never saw a spy, wich stood long alive, after he came out of ug.

Think again, hoerni, think again! ;)

Those, called dead, will live on.