Trimming the Odds

[Dr Strange]

Somewhere in one of the various thread as of late, someone brought up the subject of how Neocron city is less in favor than Dome of York. Arguements on that aside, the various population discussions (see New Runner forums for examples) got me to thinking;

Currently Terra peaks out, at it's best, 25-30%. That's under optimal circumstances, such as peak hours, on a peak day, thats not before or during a holiday. With that in mind, Terra average's 15-25% on a typical peak hour night, and then again averaged down to 10-18% for hours slightly ahead or slightly behind peak hours.

Now, using the 1% = 10 people theory, we'll say 20% is 200 people.

There are how many playable factions on Terra, 12 right? By math count, if you wanna just look at it in a evenly divisable number setup, 200 people at 12 factions, is 16.6~ per faction online in the typical average population online count.

Obviously that math is skewed, as some factions will definitely have more than 16 people in them online, and some will have less possibly.

The point? One of the more, depressing, things about logging in, is the "ghost town" feeling. Maybe it's not as much apparent in Neocron city, but being in the Dome is like playing a single player RPG sometimes, you can literally wander around for an hour and never run into a single soul. Alot of times the main reason you know people are "out there" is the activity going on in Trade chat, Alliance chat and the more scarce Faction chat (with the obvious OOC and Help chats as well).

Again you ask, the point of all this? I ask this;

Why not trim the factions down? The map is literally broken into a triangle of areas, DoY in the north, NC in the south and the Mercs in the west. With the ,lacking, populations as they are, having 12 major factions spread across the map seems, impractical. Now the "spread out" feel, I personally enjoy. I never played NC1 so others will disagree probably, but being virtually right next door, almost, to your enemies seems kinda stupid. You should have to traverse some distance to reach the battle, or encounter enemies (even though GR's count as this as well). But that aspect aside, that's my opinion.

With 12 factions, player based resources, in terms of just numbers, are spread too thin. Brad and others might agree, factions as small as Tsunami can be a bitch to play. With so few people playing them, it's a wonder the faction has anyone. Same with D.R.E.

Why not combine a few? Trim it down to an even number on both the major sides (I think NC has one more faction than DoY has, don't quote me I forget at this hour of the morning). Storyline wise, sure it might be a little strange to say "oh uh, Crahn and Black Dragon have combined to form a religious front, for organized drug running" (hehe..) but you get the drift.

It may subtract some from the immense backstory but it would not only help gather what current players there are, in a better manner, it would give new players a better feel. I know I felt like shit when I learned my favorite faction was a very seldom played one in NC2.

[Jesterthegreat]

no.

the game is close enough to a boring red vs blue setup.

give us the old faction relationships back where we all had to watch our back so much more.

[naimex]

Theres a million things saying yes, and a million things saying no....


I can´t decide whether I´m for or against.


EDIT:

My favourite solution is still :

Dynamic Individual Faction Relationship.

Remove tags showing faction and remove soullight.

Then the soullight colors that were showing the amount of soullight a runner has to your faction.

But you wouldnt be in a faction, but a runner in a world filled with factions.

So if you have +90 relationship to all factions, you can buy stuff off all faction supply managers.

In example :

Runner with -10 or lower in all factions would per definition be Hostile to everyone ingame.

Runner with +50 in all factions would per definition be Allied to everyone ingame.

Runner with -10 to +50 in all factions would per definition be neutral to everyone.

Then you just spread it out over the factions, so its:

runner - given faction relationship
runner - given runner relationship, based on common allied, neuts and enemies.

so if :

Runner A has :

BioTech : 99 (Allied)
Black Dragon Clan : 51 (Allied)
Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral)
CityAdmin : -99 (Hostile)
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile)
Diamond Real Estate : -35 (Hostile)
Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral)
NeXT Systems : 29 (Neutral)
ProtoPharm : 79 (Allied)
Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral)
Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied)
Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile)

and runner B has :

BioTech : -35 (Hostile)
Black Dragon Clan : -99 (Hostile)
Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral)
CityAdmin : 51 (Allied)
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile)
Diamond Real Estate : 56 (Allied)
Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral)
NeXT Systems : 21 (Neutral)
ProtoPharm : -33 (Hostile)
Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral)
Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied)
Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile)

Then :

Runner A - Runner B relations would be :

BioTech : 99 (Allied) - BioTech : -35 (Hostile) = 64 (Allied)
Black Dragon Clan : 51 (Allied) - Black Dragon Clan : -99 (Hostile) = -48 (Hostile)
Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral) - Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral) = 0 (Neutral)
CityAdmin : -99 (Hostile) - CityAdmin : 51 (Allied) = -48 (Hostile)
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile) - CityMercs : -10 (Hostile) = 0 (Neutral)
Diamond Real Estate : -35 (Hostile) - Diamond Real Estate : 56 (Allied) = 21 (Neutral)
Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral) - Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral) = 0 (Neutral)
NeXT Systems : 29 (Neutral) - NeXT Systems : 21 (Neutral) = 8 (Neutral)
ProtoPharm : 79 (Allied) - ProtoPharm : -33 (Hostile) = 46 (Neutral)
Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral) - Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral) = 0 (Neutral)
Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied) - Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied) = 0 (Neutral)
Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile) - Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile) = 0 (Neutral)


64 - 48 + 0 - 48 + 0 + 21 + 0 + 8 + 46 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 43 (Neutral)

Meaning runner A would be neutral to runner B

[RogerRamjet]

Re instate old faction symps. That would sort out some factions being empty.

[Tostino]

Theres a million things saying yes, and a million things saying no....


I can´t decide whether I´m for or against.


EDIT:

My favourite solution is still :

Dynamic Individual Faction Relationship.

Remove tags showing faction and remove soullight.

Then the soullight colors that were showing the amount of soullight a runner has to your faction.

But you wouldnt be in a faction, but a runner in a world filled with factions.

So if you have +90 relationship to all factions, you can buy stuff off all faction supply managers.

In example :

Runner with -10 or lower in all factions would per definition be Hostile to everyone ingame.

Runner with +50 in all factions would per definition be Allied to everyone ingame.

Runner with -10 to +50 in all factions would per definition be neutral to everyone.

Then you just spread it out over the factions, so its:

runner - given faction relationship
runner - given runner relationship, based on common allied, neuts and enemies.

so if :

Runner A has :

BioTech : 99 (Allied)
Black Dragon Clan : 51 (Allied)
Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral)
CityAdmin : -99 (Hostile)
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile)
Diamond Real Estate : -35 (Hostile)
Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral)
NeXT Systems : 29 (Neutral)
ProtoPharm : 79 (Allied)
Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral)
Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied)
Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile)

and runner B has :

BioTech : -35 (Hostile)
Black Dragon Clan : -99 (Hostile)
Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral)
CityAdmin : 51 (Allied)
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile)
Diamond Real Estate : 56 (Allied)
Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral)
NeXT Systems : 21 (Neutral)
ProtoPharm : -33 (Hostile)
Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral)
Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied)
Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile)

Then :

Runner A - Runner B relations would be :

BioTech : 99 (Allied) - BioTech : -35 (Hostile) = 64 (Allied)
Black Dragon Clan : 51 (Allied) - Black Dragon Clan : -99 (Hostile) = -48 (Hostile)
Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral) - Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral) = 0 (Neutral)
CityAdmin : -99 (Hostile) - CityAdmin : 51 (Allied) = -48 (Hostile)
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile) - CityMercs : -10 (Hostile) = 0 (Neutral)
Diamond Real Estate : -35 (Hostile) - Diamond Real Estate : 56 (Allied) = 21 (Neutral)
Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral) - Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral) = 0 (Neutral)
NeXT Systems : 29 (Neutral) - NeXT Systems : 21 (Neutral) = 8 (Neutral)
ProtoPharm : 79 (Allied) - ProtoPharm : -33 (Hostile) = 46 (Neutral)
Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral) - Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral) = 0 (Neutral)
Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied) - Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied) = 0 (Neutral)
Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile) - Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile) = 0 (Neutral)


64 - 48 + 0 - 48 + 0 + 21 + 0 + 8 + 46 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 43 (Neutral)

Meaning runner A would be neutral to runner B
Wow that is a very good idea... 5 stars.

[Hellmag]

My favourite solution is still :

Dynamic Individual Faction Relationship.

Remove tags showing faction and remove soullight.


No, keep SL for runner to runner relations. SL would show how much someone abides the law.


Then the soullight colors that were showing the amount of soullight a runner has to your faction.

But you wouldnt be in a faction, but a runner in a world filled with factions.

So if you have +90 relationship to all factions, you can buy stuff off all faction supply managers.

This is something I really don't get why it isn't in the game already. At least for the faction traders (you know the three that sells Tools, Chems and Parts). Make them need double the symp for nonfaction runners (ie 60 FS).



In example :

Runner with -10 or lower in all factions would per definition be Hostile to everyone ingame.

Runner with +50 in all factions would per definition be Allied to everyone ingame.

Runner with -10 to +50 in all factions would per definition be neutral to everyone.


I guess you mean NPC's here? As you give another version below.



Then you just spread it out over the factions, so its:

runner - given faction relationship
runner - given runner relationship, based on common allied, neuts and enemies.

so if :

Runner A has :

BioTech : 99 (Allied)
Black Dragon Clan : 51 (Allied)
Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral)
CityAdmin : -99 (Hostile)
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile)
Diamond Real Estate : -35 (Hostile)
Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral)
NeXT Systems : 29 (Neutral)
ProtoPharm : 79 (Allied)
Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral)
Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied)
Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile)

and runner B has :

BioTech : -35 (Hostile)
Black Dragon Clan : -99 (Hostile)
Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral)
CityAdmin : 51 (Allied)
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile)
Diamond Real Estate : 56 (Allied)
Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral)
NeXT Systems : 21 (Neutral)
ProtoPharm : -33 (Hostile)
Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral)
Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied)
Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile)

Then :

Runner A - Runner B relations would be :

BioTech : 99 (Allied) - BioTech : -35 (Hostile) = 64 (Allied)
Black Dragon Clan : 51 (Allied) - Black Dragon Clan : -99 (Hostile) = -48 (Hostile)
Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral) - Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral) = 0 (Neutral)
CityAdmin : -99 (Hostile) - CityAdmin : 51 (Allied) = -48 (Hostile)
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile) - CityMercs : -10 (Hostile) = 0 (Neutral)
Diamond Real Estate : -35 (Hostile) - Diamond Real Estate : 56 (Allied) = 21 (Neutral)
Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral) - Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral) = 0 (Neutral)
NeXT Systems : 29 (Neutral) - NeXT Systems : 21 (Neutral) = 8 (Neutral)
ProtoPharm : 79 (Allied) - ProtoPharm : -33 (Hostile) = 46 (Neutral)
Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral) - Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral) = 0 (Neutral)
Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied) - Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied) = 0 (Neutral)
Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile) - Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile) = 0 (Neutral)


64 - 48 + 0 - 48 + 0 + 21 + 0 + 8 + 46 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 43 (Neutral)

Meaning runner A would be neutral to runner B
Your math is a bit odd, i think. :)
BioTech : 99 (Allied) - BioTech : -35 (Hostile) = 64 (Allied)
CityAdmin : -99 (Hostile) - CityAdmin : 51 (Allied) = -48 (Hostile)
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile) - CityMercs : -10 (Hostile) = 0 (Neutral)
How you can get them allied in BioTech is something I really don't get.
Perhaps if they teamed up they would be allied to BT (ie using the teams average FS).
What matters in runner - runner relations should be the difference between them.
So it think it should be:
BioTech : 99 (Allied) - BioTech : -35 (Hostile) = 134
CityAdmin : -99 (Hostile) - CityAdmin : 51 (Allied) = 150
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile) - CityMercs : -10 (Hostile) = 0
The more it differs the more they are at odds with each other.
Somthing like this perhaps:
Up to 50 in difference in a faction would equal likemindedness (Allied).
51-100 => some disagreements (Neutral)
101+ => not same ground (Hostile)
And the sum of the differance would then be measured on a scale, and that is how they relate to each other.
Then if you sum up all the 12 (or 14 if you add AB and TU):
< 600 => Allied (<700)
601 - 1200 => Neutral (701-1400)
1201 - => Enemies (1401-)

So with your two runners that would be:
Faction|| A:s FS || B:s FS || A vs B
BT : || 99 (A) || -35 (H) || = 134 (H)
BD : || 51 (A) || -99 (H) || = 150 (H)
BC : || 19 (N) || 19 (N) || = 0 (A)
CA : || -99 (H) || 51 (A) || = 150 (H)
CM : || -10 (H) || -10 (H) || = 0 (A)
DRE: || -35 (H) || 56 (A) || = 91 (N)
FA : || -9 (N) || -9 (N) || = 0 (A)
NeXT:|| 29 (N) || 21 (N) || = 8 (A)
PP : || 79 (A) || -33 (H) || = 112 (H)
TT : || 11 (N) || 11 (N) || = 0 (A)
TS : || 88 (A) || 88 (A) || = 0 (A)
TG : || -77 (H) || -77 (H) || = 0 (A)

Sum of relations:
134+150+0+150+0+91+0+8+112+0+0+0= 645 (Neutral)

But this system could be running alongside SL. SL should just show how lawabiding a runner is, and perhaps be bound to a bounty system (brought up several times). So even if we are allied, i could kill you if you've been a really bad boy (or vice versa of course). SL could be used as a multiplier when determining FS/SL loss/gain, or just as a pecentage of how much of his FS (or in the case of a group kill, your part of his FS) will be deducted from you. The problem is, how do you calculate FS loss/gain in this kind of system? I would guess you'd have to calculate all FS's everytime you do a kill *shudders at the thought of thoose poor servers that has to do all the math*

[eprodigy]

dont lower the game to the population, bring the population up to the game.

stupid idea. worst ive ever heard in my life. bring back old faction relations would be nice, with the current ones there might as well be just two factions.


Now the "spread out" feel, I personally enjoy. I never played NC1 so others will disagree probably, but being virtually right next door, almost, to your enemies seems kinda stupid. You should have to traverse some distance to reach the battle, or encounter enemies (even though GR's count as this as well). But that aspect aside, that's my opinion.
no that was probably the best thing about NC1 that we lost.

[naimex]

well I think you missed a valuable point of what I was trying to say.

Runners will by my thought not be in any faction at all..

Factions would be NPC only.

and then the difference between the faction sympathies of runner A subtracted from the faction symphaties of runner B, then added together to a final number then determines whether you are allied, neutral or hostile to that runner.

so

your biotech relations minus your opponents biotech relations = 64

BioTech : 99 (Allied) - BioTech : -35 (Hostile) = 64 (Allied)

your black dragon relations minus your opponents black dragon relations = -48

Black Dragon Clan : 51 (Allied) - Black Dragon Clan : -99 (Hostile) = -48(Hostile)

your crahn relations minus your opponents crahn relations = 0

Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral) - Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral) = 0 (Neutral)

and so on and so forth.

then all the differences are put together as :


64 - 48 + 0 - 48 + 0 + 21 + 0 + 8 + 46 + 0 + 0 + 0 =

which gives 43 which is neutral according to what i said in the beginning of my post (think it was the beginning anyways).


Runner with -10 or lower in all factions would per definition be Hostile to everyone ingame.

Runner with +50 in all factions would per definition be Allied to everyone ingame.

Runner with -10 to +50 in all factions would per definition be neutral to everyone.

where all factions of course also means any and one faction.


EDIT: Actually your math could also work, but then you would have to make a few more preliminary calculations before implementation to get the borders between hostile, neutral and allied just right, but besides that, your math is as good as mine.


EDIT 2: Forgot to reply to your questions or statement or whatever it was regarding soullight, and for a very long time, myself and lots of others have known that the soullight system is terribly broken, and which i therefore think should be dumped deleted and never used again.

If i had +99 in all nc factions, which is unlikely, and 99 soullight, which is even more unlikely, i would still be hostile in the current faction system, and thereby be eliminated by the now freezing psycho damaging storm and cop bots.

But with the new faction system I would be "allied" to all nc factions, and then have the copbots only shooting at me if i had bad sl, if it is kept in as you propose.

and why the hell am i arguing about this??

if factions become dynamic, then soullight will be pretty much fixed.

then the only thing that still needs fixing with soullight would be :

When Runner A and Runner B of Faction BLABLA fight.

then Runner A shoots Runner B a few times.

Runner B gets mad pulls out his ass-whopping cannon of khan and blows Runner A to radioactive vapor or dust, depending on ammo mod.
Then Runner B that started the bullshit walks free, but Runner A gets one hell of a SL loss, for defending himself.



Judge Dredd anyone?

Hacker guy goes into catering droid, gets sent to prison for saving his own life, and well, the bad guys die, but besides that, they go free.

And it was legal to commit suicide..




Ok.. so that means this guy farts all over me, blows me to critical health, i blast him to rocket dust, and gets punished for saving my own life...

Well of course I could have just killed myself... that way i would just have lost a belt, and money and stuff.. but hey i would keep my soullight intact..

oh and the other guy goes free..




Seriously.. it needs fixing, and until that is fixed... SL is NOT worth having.


EDIT 3:

And kinda off topic and still not...

Faction NPCs need to be a lot more visible...

Ok sure its a barren wasteland filled with horrible horrible monsters...

NPC Runners that run around blasting mobs here and there, and stuff, or npcs walking around the streets here and there, talking to eachother and stuff..

closing times for shops and so on..


Lots of really small things, that may not be so small after all, for a more dynamic world.



(And god would I love if walls actually got damaged from 70 moonie rockets, would love to see a city raid with big bad cannons, wreaking stores and walls to rubble, and then have a few npc droid thingies stand around wireframe holograms displaying the work to be done, and then slowly have the city be rebuilt, and then increased guard patrols right after a raid. and all those things.)



Many of these ideas would take on quite an amount ofbandwidth and server load...


But I got a solution for that.. ;)

Ingame-Time triggered clientside commands, making this and that npc move to this and that point and do this and that.

then all if would load on is the players machine, and since this is in the city, the only time it could even possible become an annoyance is if you have a terribly sucky sucky computer during a raid that you wanted to fight in..

And since people with sucky sucky computers most likely will lag anyways during a decent sized war, it wouldnt be so much difference anyways, and therefore not be a great loss, compared to the gameplay reality feeling it would add, which then justifies my point of view.

[LiL T]

Theres a million things saying yes, and a million things saying no....


I can´t decide whether I´m for or against.


EDIT:

My favourite solution is still :

Dynamic Individual Faction Relationship.

Remove tags showing faction and remove soullight.

Then the soullight colors that were showing the amount of soullight a runner has to your faction.

But you wouldnt be in a faction, but a runner in a world filled with factions.

So if you have +90 relationship to all factions, you can buy stuff off all faction supply managers.

In example :

Runner with -10 or lower in all factions would per definition be Hostile to everyone ingame.

Runner with +50 in all factions would per definition be Allied to everyone ingame.

Runner with -10 to +50 in all factions would per definition be neutral to everyone.

Then you just spread it out over the factions, so its:

runner - given faction relationship
runner - given runner relationship, based on common allied, neuts and enemies.

so if :

Runner A has :

BioTech : 99 (Allied)
Black Dragon Clan : 51 (Allied)
Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral)
CityAdmin : -99 (Hostile)
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile)
Diamond Real Estate : -35 (Hostile)
Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral)
NeXT Systems : 29 (Neutral)
ProtoPharm : 79 (Allied)
Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral)
Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied)
Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile)

and runner B has :

BioTech : -35 (Hostile)
Black Dragon Clan : -99 (Hostile)
Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral)
CityAdmin : 51 (Allied)
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile)
Diamond Real Estate : 56 (Allied)
Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral)
NeXT Systems : 21 (Neutral)
ProtoPharm : -33 (Hostile)
Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral)
Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied)
Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile)

Then :

Runner A - Runner B relations would be :

BioTech : 99 (Allied) - BioTech : -35 (Hostile) = 64 (Allied)
Black Dragon Clan : 51 (Allied) - Black Dragon Clan : -99 (Hostile) = -48 (Hostile)
Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral) - Brotherhood of Crahn : 19 (Neutral) = 0 (Neutral)
CityAdmin : -99 (Hostile) - CityAdmin : 51 (Allied) = -48 (Hostile)
CityMercs : -10 (Hostile) - CityMercs : -10 (Hostile) = 0 (Neutral)
Diamond Real Estate : -35 (Hostile) - Diamond Real Estate : 56 (Allied) = 21 (Neutral)
Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral) - Fallen Angels : -9 (Neutral) = 0 (Neutral)
NeXT Systems : 29 (Neutral) - NeXT Systems : 21 (Neutral) = 8 (Neutral)
ProtoPharm : 79 (Allied) - ProtoPharm : -33 (Hostile) = 46 (Neutral)
Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral) - Tangent Technologies : 11 (Neutral) = 0 (Neutral)
Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied) - Tsunami Syndicate : 88 (Allied) = 0 (Neutral)
Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile) - Twilight Guardian : -77 (Hostile) = 0 (Neutral)


64 - 48 + 0 - 48 + 0 + 21 + 0 + 8 + 46 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 43 (Neutral)

Meaning runner A would be neutral to runner B
I'd really like this, letting the player decide who they align with

[naimex]

i just looked at my math again..

and you are right it is totally fucked up...


in defense of myself I would like to say that it´s been 4 years and 3 months since i last had math in school...



anyways, my idea was fundamentally right, my math just sucked donkey balls...

[Hellmag]

i just looked at my math again..

and you are right it is totally fucked up...


in defense of myself I would like to say that it´s been 4 years and 3 months since i last had math in school...



anyways, my idea was fundamentally right, my math just sucked donkey balls...
It is a bit unfair, I'm stydying to be a math teacher. And just finished a course on Statistics and Probabilities (or whatever it's called in the rest of the world).

I really like the idea with relative faction symps.

[Dirus]

You're dealing with a game that is centered around factions, the whole backstory is all about faction vs faction, city vs city. You're supposed to pick a faction based on what they stand for.

Why would the CityAdmin sell stuff to a Twilight Guardian? For that matter.. how would it even be possible for a TG to actually gain the favor of the CityAdmin? If you think about it, you shouldnt actually be able to gain positive standings with a rival faction, the only way you should be able to is to renounce your current faction, and and gradually gain the trust of your ex-enemy before being able to gain any favor at all.

With that system naimex, what would you even base founding and joining a clan on? You could end up with people showing up as hostile to you, even tho you're in the same clan, just because the balance of your relations with "all" the factions is off center by too much.

[Rob01m]

Lupus does make some good points.

If faction standings were so dynamic to change relationships, each person would pretty much have different allies and enemies, so if you were to join a clan, who would the clan fight? Would be kinda silly if for example the clan leader had really nice standings with CA and half the clan wanted to raid a CA outpost. ;)

I guess clans would pretty much be factionless then, be merely an extended team of people, but it's too complicated when all factions can be -100 to 100 for each person, the clan would have no unity. No common goals but to protect each other? But now suppose one of your clan mates is in trouble, his enemy may be your friend because your standings are different, so who do you help? :lol:

[Kozmos]

You're dealing with a game that is centered around factions, the whole backstory is all about faction vs faction, city vs city. You're supposed to pick a faction based on what they stand for.

Why would the CityAdmin sell stuff to a Twilight Guardian? For that matter.. how would it even be possible for a TG to actually gain the favor of the CityAdmin? If you think about it, you shouldnt actually be able to gain positive standings with a rival faction, the only way you should be able to is to renounce your current faction, and and gradually gain the trust of your ex-enemy before being able to gain any favor at all.

With that system naimex, what would you even base founding and joining a clan on? You could end up with people showing up as hostile to you, even tho you're in the same clan, just because the balance of your relations with "all" the factions is off center by too much.
Yes lup but at the end of the day, why spread it all out tho ? Why have CA, BT, PP, DRE, TT in the city all allied.

Why cant it go back to BT and TT fighting, What if DRE, who are a business, hooked up a deal with a couple of factions in DoY and were neutral again to say Crahn and TSU, as their renovating the destroyed housing on contract.
Why not ? Would stir things up again

atm its red vs blue with some purple in between with CM...

[Jesterthegreat]

You're dealing with a game that is centered around factions, the whole backstory is all about faction vs faction, city vs city. You're supposed to pick a faction based on what they stand for.

Why would the CityAdmin sell stuff to a Twilight Guardian? For that matter.. how would it even be possible for a TG to actually gain the favor of the CityAdmin? If you think about it, you shouldnt actually be able to gain positive standings with a rival faction, the only way you should be able to is to renounce your current faction, and and gradually gain the trust of your ex-enemy before being able to gain any favor at all.

With that system naimex, what would you even base founding and joining a clan on? You could end up with people showing up as hostile to you, even tho you're in the same clan, just because the balance of your relations with "all" the factions is off center by too much.


it used to be faction vs faction... now its almost just city vs city which is much more boring and much more conventional. lost alot of the unique feel of the game with the faction standings change

[naimex]

I think I can see the last few point of views, but I found a lil solution inside my head for that too, but it´s a bit more complicated to make i think.. lotsa calculation thingies.



All members of a given clan, would then have that allied, hostile, neutral calculations made, and then the average of all the members, would be the clans symphaties, and the clan symphaties applies to all members of that clan.


so if 99 of 100 members got hostile in all, then that last person would also be hostile to all, because he gets the average of the clan, and he is very much unlikely to have enough personal symphaties to raise 99 peoples hositlity up to a neutral or even allied.


I do believe thats how it works for the given faction you are in now, clan symphathy towards their own faction is an average of all the members in that clans relationship towards that faction.


And as for the Twilight Guardian - CA trade, then it really isnt much difference than it is now.

Now you do some missies, killl some people, change faction, 1-2 times depending on where you are going, and then already there you will have gone from TG to CA.

But since you have to do missions to be able to get up to a decent symphaty lvl to buy from CA as a TG, you would by doing those missions infact, prove that you are loyal, however gaining loyalty through missions for one faction, would make you unloyal to your own faction, if those 2 factions are hostile towards eachother.

And besides that we can put the last RP touch on it.

--RP Touch With Runners still being in a faction--

All runners in neocron have a chip or two in them from when they are rehabilitated at the MC5 Facilities.

Hacker goes through hacknet, gets chip data for CA, sells to a TG (by using a remote hack tool or something to hack into the chip and exchange the data, thereby making a TG a CA.)

That would be if runners were kept in the factions, the way for a TG to get to CA to trade his business, ofcourse he would then have to have the chip data exchanged outside of the Dome, otherwise the guards will shoot him, for instance in TH, then when his business is done, he would have to have his data changed back to TG before he goes back to the Dome, again this could be done in TH.

The guards nor the factions would be able to know the difference, because they would per definition just think that it was a rehabbed runner.

--/RP Touch With Runners still being in a faction--


--RP Touch With Runners being on the sideline of factions (Which I would like them to be)--

Runners that are allied with all, done through missions, would have to be clanless, or make sure that he/she is in a clan that are all allied to all, so the symphaties of the others doesnt make you hostile to the factions you are planning to trade with.

Now, since you are allied with all, you can wander wherever you feel like, and then we have 2 options :

Factions Approve :

if we say that the factions are programmed to approve people being allied to all factions, then the runner that was allied to all, would be free to go wherever he/she feels like and buy what he/she wants from who, (of course you need the 90 symp to buy off FSMs).

Factions Don´t Approve :

If we say that the factions are programmed not to approve people being allied to all factions, then the guards of that faction would make all guards keep an eye on that runner, in their vicinity, and if a weapon is pulled out, or damage is dealt to a runner near them by this person, then you are (cant think of a better description than "breaking the non aggression pact), and will get shot by the guards.

--/RP Touch With Runners being on the sideline of factions--


Don´t know if these ideas are bulletproof or anything, but it´s what popped into my mind as a solution to the new facts put on the thread.

[naimex]

Did we just die here ?

or was it just bulletproof?

I hardly believe in the second, so I guess we died, but I´d like to be sure.

[Dirus]

Did we just die here ?

or was it just bulletproof?

I hardly believe in the second, so I guess we died, but I´d like to be sure.
I'm no doctor but..

*grabs a sitck and pokes it a few times*

Seems dead to me.

[ZoVoS]

:S

Don´t know if these ideas are bulletproof or anything, but it´s what popped into my mind as a solution to the new facts put on the thread.

no bulletproof would me me :S

:p

on a different note i am with jester on this (dam i seem to be agreeing with him alot recently... post sumin that only a asshat would sugest :mad:), red v blue is BAD, the old fraction relationships were 100X better than they are now