View Full Version : solving the PPU problem
how about making a ppu's shelter/deflector when cast on another person tie in with there con values, high con based resistance ppl have more effective shelter deflector than a low con based person, also it would mean u would have to spread ur con out amonks the options and not relie on say, natural xray resistance and poison resistance (natural = con bassed) and energy resistance and fire aquiered from amour, unfortunatly if you do this u will have to deversify the amour more, more amour would have to be brought into the game, but if u did do this it would mean apu's dont go godlike defence with holy s/d/h, but a tank would benifit much more than other classes, with the posibility of bias'ing the use to tanks, so damage would need to be looked into also.
it would complicate things but it would make it more fair, the the moment u can holy s/d people with no amour or con atal (lvl 2 noobs for example) atal and there defence skyrockets
this would make the monks (apu's) easyer to kill like there ment to be, but keep there masive damage output as there suposed to have
feel free to descus and poke holes in my idea
Don't nerf or remove PPU's :D
Forget the whole idea! I LOVE monks come on you all do when your on the winning side ;)
http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.php?p=1774655&postcount=146
=] the tital was changed from solving the butplug problem
this one isnt a fixing ppu thread, its a fuxing ppu apu or ppu anything team thread
everything in that thread fn i do agree with btw
tis is just a way to fix overpowering a class by shelter deflector withough changing the rest of the game with a magor overhaul, kinda a quick fix in the pvp sence much like remvoing all ppu modules over the ones that pe's can spec for would be.
I LOVE monks come on you all do when your on the winning side ;)
actually no i dont.. if a ppu tries to buff/heal me i usually say "fuck off play a real class" whats the point in fighting if you cant die...
actually no i dont.. if a ppu tries to buff/heal me i usually say "fuck off play a real class" whats the point in fighting if you cant die...
so saying FUCK OFF is acceptable when someone is trying to save your sorry ass?
You'll die quick enough :D
I have never had anyone tell my PPU to FUCK OFF when he buffs them so good job i have never ran into you. Monks are a great clas, everyone says they don't play them but i see enough of them running around ;)
so saying FUCK OFF is acceptable when someone is trying to save your sorry ass?
I have never had anyone tell my PPU to FUCK OFF when he buffs them so good job i have never ran into you. Monks are a great clas, everyone says they don't play them but i see enough of them running around ;)
yes because they're a bandwagon no ability required class, everyone sees how overpowered an apu/ppu team is and plays a monk. i tell them to fuck off because i dont want win by cheating/being lame and thats exactly what it is
yes because they're a bandwagon no ability required class, everyone sees how overpowered an apu/ppu team is and plays a monk. i tell them to fuck off because i dont want win by cheating/being lame and thats exactly what it is
I wouldn't consider playing a valid class in the game as cheating its very easy to kill a shit PPU you just got to use the right tools.
Playing a PPU requires skill and you obviously have some problems with the class so this ends here no further argument from me :angel:
yeah. you obviously play a ppu and/or whore ppus to have any hope of winning fights.
Riddle, I know you'll defend PPUs to the grave but I left NC1 after it go SOOOOO boring not ever dying thanks to my PPU companion and attempting to PvP while constantly para'd hoping my ppu could para their combat players and keep me healed more than their ppu could manage on theirs as that was practically the only way to win at the time.
If I wanted to play a mmorpg where you just stood infront of each other and hoped your equipment did more damage etc, I would of played any of the other point and wait mmorpgs out there. PPUs are really turning neocron into the same game and that is not fun. If you like that style of combat so much, why dont you go to a game like that?
Riddle, I know you'll defend PPUs to the grave but I left NC1 after it go SOOOOO boring not ever dying thanks to my PPU companion and attempting to PvP while constantly para'd hoping my ppu could para their combat players and keep me healed more than their ppu could manage on theirs as that was practically the only way to win at the time.
If I wanted to play a mmorpg where you just stood infront of each other and hoped your equipment did more damage etc, I would of played any of the other point and wait mmorpgs out there. PPUs are really turning neocron into the same game and that is not fun. If you like that style of combat so much, why dont you go to a game like that?
You don't know me :p I would not defend PPU's to the grave.
I admit they need some work but as Lupus has already stated there are things that need to be done before PPU's are looked at.
However I like playing a monk char not because they are invincible they ARE NOT it has been confirmed that Noob buffing is not an exploit and is now a viable way to take out a PPU. I play because I enjoy the rush i get from trying to keep several combatants alive whilst either in PvM or PvP.
In every MMO you will find a healer class whats so wrong with them in NC?
The problem does not lie in the class as such but the massive increase in their use in combat making it practically impossible to win unless you have one with you, hence the butt plug complaint.
Mechanicus
29-06-05, 14:47
what ppu problem?
enigma_b17
29-06-05, 14:50
ppu's are fine....its simply the problem that 1 tank and 1 ppu can beat 10 tanks thats the problem.
I rekon re-instate the Spirit mod, except instead of making it remove shelter, change it so that it by-passes deflector. IE you shoot some1 with a spirit modd-ed sh and it does the same damage whether or not they have a deflector on. (makes more sense being called a spirit mod if it does this, as a spirit would usually be uneffected by barriers )
what ppu problem?
Wish i'd just said that :p instead of all this typing!
Mechanicus
29-06-05, 14:54
nah if it were gonna be put back in keep it removing shelter, that way the spy has to work with a team to kill the ppu, or at minimum do a lot of fast weapon swapping
Vae Victis
29-06-05, 15:10
I wouldn't consider playing a valid class in the game as cheating its very easy to kill a shit PPU you just got to use the right tools.
Playing a PPU requires skill and you obviously have some problems with the class so this ends here no further argument from me :angel: Man, I love you, wanna make babies?
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO FUCKING UNDERSTANDS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A PPU!
There... finally... wow...
if ya can't kill a PPU.. 1) you suck 2) zerg him/her
playing ppu DOES require skill. it's the hardest class to play.
1) keep urself buffed and healed
2) keep ur team buffed and healed
3) avoid being noobbuffed
4) avoid your team being noobbuffed
5) noobbuff the enemy
6) lalnaab
all the damagedealers just have to shoot the enemy, if ya got a PPU you don't need to watch your own buffs.
as Riddle said this discussion is over. I played PPU for 3 years now so there's no way in hell you can convince me that PPUs are overpowered or not a real class or whatever.
stop nerfing the goddamn PPUs, start boosting the other chars/mobs.
and when that happens, I'll be there to watch and laugh at you all since good PPUs still won't die.
APU/PPU combo will always be the best in this game, simply because APU does the most damage and they can antibuff.
if you want to balance the game, remove all fucking classes and come up with 4 new ones. every class is overpowered in some way.
"onozzz spies have ub0r 1337 range" peleaaazeeeee..
no class is overpowered, it's how you play your own class. your setup. your own (pvp) skills.
if you wanna see something overpowered, go take a look in nc1 and ask for hybrids. I've seen 2 hybrids with 127/46 and 127/51
how? GM overcapped thats how.
they are overpowered but their pvp skills are soooo low, they must be from jupiter (they came from jupi, I asked)
wow.. I feel so much better now
can you feel the love? <3
oh and BTW, try using distract mind.. that sure is fun.
Gulinborsti
29-06-05, 15:22
I can see only one solution for the "PPU problem": Make all PSI spells self cast only except the support and comabt buffs. Maybe some others, I don't want to go in detail on this atm.
Supporting your damage dealing buddies with sanctums and group buffs only requires skill, a current PPU can support 3-4 others while watching TV.
And we get rid of the filthy nOOb buff problem too this way.
There is no problems with PPU, just that, they are probably the ones that define more than the others class how a fight will turn if it's OP/big fightning, it depends how you see the things...
Ie : there are 2 teams A and B
A has 2 PPU's and an APU
B has 1 PPU and 2 APU's
Will the team B win cuz the PPU is skilled ? because the offenders are skilled ?
Or the team A because 2 supports on an APU is better ?
Vae Victis
29-06-05, 15:55
Neally, Team C shows up (1 apu and 1 ppu) and kill all.. tbh :D
just remove monks. problem solved
Ffs some people are stupid as fucks arent they..
There are some people who actually likes to play ppus, and the good ppus are skilled players.. Yes maby some pvm stuff and some skirmis small fights are abit easy with att ppu arround, but a shitty person who has a ppu just to have a ppu is a pretty easy pray if you just try.
And to you who says fuck off to a ppu healing you is probably capped now after you have been using ppus to cap and now you are all l333tz0rd00d but hey Fuck you to you can burn in fucking hell for all I care :).
Ffs some people are stupid as fucks arent they..
There are some people who actually likes to play ppus, and the good ppus are skilled players.. Yes maby some pvm stuff and some skirmis small fights are abit easy with att ppu arround, but a shitty person who has a ppu just to have a ppu is a pretty easy pray if you just try.
And to you who says fuck off to a ppu healing you is probably capped now after you have been using ppus to cap and now you are all l333tz0rd00d but hey Fuck you to you can burn in fucking hell for all I care :).
yeah remove monks, <3
Hehe yeah remove us :)
Its no fun to tell someone with an ironic touch to their flaming to crawl back to the fucking hole they emerged from tho.. :)
The problem I see with ppus is that there are too many arround. Almost everyone and their dog has an ppu on their account just to have one since ppl seem to belive you absolutely need 40 ppus to fight.
But it doesnt give anyone one the right to talk down on ppus especially thoose who play their ppu with luuub :)
Especially not some l33tz0r fuck with a dumbass attitude.. Most Ppus arround is killable since they dont play them good. Thoose who are hard to kill are the good ones exactly as it should be.. If you cant kill the ppu make sure the ppu cant ressurect their dmg dealers and the ppu will get the fuck away..
Yeah yeah I know sometimes there are so many ppus arround that you cant prevent ressing, and yes I dislike that too.. But the ppu problem isnt always about overpowereness, but the sheer amount of people who has a ppu to log on to.. And the second biggest problem is that some are so fucking stupid honestly speaking to think and use what you have to kill a whole lot of ppus who suck aswell as some of the good ones aswell.. They are killable just not alone and that should have hit the people by now that it isnt possible if the person isnt very very bad.
yeah yeah whatever I hate theese discussions, There has been alot of good suggestions to "balance" ppus and all that but stop bitching all the time. Because it is very often the forum ppu haters who comes screaming for help first when something is up. Unfortunatly I dont have the heart to tell them to go fuck themselves and burn in hell :)
Dribble Joy
29-06-05, 20:09
I'll say what I have been saying for the last few months (years really).
The whole PPU role and effect on team members needs a rethink.
Personally, the key is in the heal rates.
Asurmen Spec Op
29-06-05, 20:51
This thread makes me proud that I dont have a monk :)
using ppus to cap and now you are all l333tz0rd00d but hey Fuck you to you can burn in fucking hell for all I care :).
the only char that needs a ppu to cap is another monk. I have capped every char ive ever played with zero ppu assistance. theres is NOTHING more I hate when a ppu tries to help me, if he wont leave i do because theres zero point in fighting for me or them same as there is no fun for me or them.
yeah theres ALWAYS going to be people defending their class even when its obviously screwing the game.
eprodigy (member.php?u=23412) Maby I jumped to conclusions with you then.. And yes I have leveled apu's, pe's spies, tanks without ppu help and yes it is no problem what soever to do that. What I ment in my anger management abit up is I know there are ALOT of people who sucks the ppu's ass for heals and resurrections and S/D PRIMES screaming during pvp and leveling who whines their fucking ass off on the forums.
And honestly thoose people should just fall down and die right on the spot..
But my oppinion still stands firm. You can kill PPU's with effort and teamwork.. You really really need the good players to bring down a good one. And you can play arround with the not so good ones if you yourself know what you are doing. And the fact that there are indeed too many ppu's arround it kills the joy for thoose who likes to play ppu when everyone has one and always uses one all the time to ress and other crap only.
And there will always be the l33tz0r d00ds with the supposebly madskillz who owns the world with their shittalk and big mouth who will whine cause they cant kill a ppu/whatever dmg dealing class team alone.. and to those fuck off and die.
im not saying ppus aint a skilled class, anybody whos tryed will find they suk if they dont put ALOT of practive in, but i am trying to say there an over powered class, u can make ppl imortal IF,,, IF you are good
i supose shelter could decast deflector and deflector could decast shelter, but then ud have a problem with nib buffin deflector when shelter is on and so on, but i supose then they could rebuff a holy shelter, but it would cause to many problems
Vae Victis
02-07-05, 12:08
i supose shelter could decast deflector and deflector could decast shelter, but then ud have a problem with nib buffin deflector when shelter is on and so on, but i supose then they could rebuff a holy shelter, but it would cause to many problemsI think this has been said a year back.
you'd be constantly noobbuffing - holybuffing the same dude.. it's no use.
bring back spirit snipers? :)
I think this has been said a year back.
you'd be constantly noobbuffing - holybuffing the same dude.. it's no use.
bring back spirit snipers? :)
If every class would own a way to get buffs away, dunno, Wyatt earp with anti heal stacks ? spirit for silent hunter ? something for heavy tanks too ? i dunno, ideas like that
Jesterthegreat
02-07-05, 14:43
ppu's are fine....its simply the problem that 1 tank and 1 ppu can beat 10 tanks thats the problem.
you dont think its the effect of the ppu that causes this?
i'd say that shows the problem rather well actually.
Lifewaster
03-07-05, 00:49
One fairly easy change would be to drastically lower the range on heal and s/d spells.... and by drastic I mean like 10 meters max.
This means someone with a dedicated ppu support will find they have to stay an awful lot closer to their ppu to get healed etc. Of course it would also make nib buffing harder too , but maybe that kills 2 birds with the one stone :p
one fairly easy change would be to .. remove monks
ppu's are fine....its simply the problem that 1 tank and 1 ppu can beat 10 tanks thats the problem.wtf ? is it the 1 tank thats the problem then ?
one fairly easy change would be to .. remove monks
wtf ? is it the 1 tank thats the problem then ?Yes, without the tank the 10 other tanks wouldn't die :D
Lifewaster
03-07-05, 09:16
Yes, without the tank the 10 other tanks wouldn't die :D
Interesting point , the real problem may actually be that non-ppus are allowed to receive ppu defence while retaining their own offence.
Perhaps the system needs changed in a diff manner , so that if someone is receiving ppu defense then their offense would be lowered accordingly.
For example :
Lvl 3 buffs and S/D could be incorporated with a corresponding minus to attack skills such as APU/HC/MC etc
Turn that PPu buffed tank into a kitten basically....
Jesterthegreat
03-07-05, 09:49
Interesting point , the real problem may actually be that non-ppus are allowed to receive ppu defence while retaining their own offence.
Perhaps the system needs changed in a diff manner , so that if someone is receiving ppu defense then their offense would be lowered accordingly.
For example :
Lvl 3 buffs and S/D could be incorporated with a corresponding minus to attack skills such as APU/HC/MC etc
Turn that PPu buffed tank into a kitten basically....
giving people the choice of being a damage dealer or a damage taker...
thing is, all that would happen is ppu's would use capped blessed buffs to get the balance between added defence and lost offence
just a simple idea, dunno if its been mentioned, get rid of the lines (as in the ressurect) effect when casting HAB HAH e.t.c That way the good old PPU wont know when hes been anti buffed therefore a mega increase in chance of dropping the PPU :)
thing is, all that would happen is ppu's would use capped blessed buffs to get the balance between added defence and lost offenceI doubt this. Afterall, we all have only 10 quickslots, and you need the holy line of spells to be "immortal" as a PPU. This is the reason why this "holy buff self cast only"-idea is bullshit, too. There is just no space in the quickbar to hold the buffs for yourself and the ones for all others.
Lvl 3 buffs and S/D could be incorporated with a corresponding minus to attack skills such as APU/HC/MC etc
Holy S and Holy D only I hope ?
Or make all buffs (except self buff) give a minus on attack skill ?
Jesterthegreat
03-07-05, 18:57
see signature.
speaking of that i've dropped loads of hints about peoples sigs which are too tall and directly reported them (being the good boy that i am) but nothing gets done. its almost enough for me to just join em in having bigger sigs to fit more in.
:edit: not aimed at you... aimed at people with more than 100pix img / more than 6 lines of text / combo adding up to more than 100 pix
THE_TICK!!!!
03-07-05, 21:29
see signature. interesting sig...as most folks well know ive played EVERY class ingame..some to better degrees than others. As i see it, the only real problem with ppu's in general (god i never thought i would say it) is para. heals..for the most part..are ok..there is still a bug with area damage..but thats a whole nother ball of wax, since all heals do it. as far as NO skill. Im going to have to disagree. As far as playing wise, money, leveling...or any aspect of the game i can think of besides poking. The ppu is the hardest class. You HAVE to be a fairly good player to be considered even HALF way decent as a ppu.. As far as them being overpowered..i beg to differ. Lets say for instance that ppu's where takin out of the game intirely.. and hybrids as well. what would that leave us with..hmm tanks can heal...monks cant do shit...AHA the PE.....he would be the new ppu class. it would be the same effect all over again..it would be he who has the PE ppu up his ass wins..and the same bullshit whining would go on and on and on. So to sum it up..if you cant take it go play wow or something. go play sims online..this game is MADE to be a certain way..if you dont like it, quit playing and go mow the lawn..
let the flames begin :)
Jesterthegreat
03-07-05, 21:34
interesting sig...as most folks well know ive played EVERY class ingame..some to better degrees than others. As i see it, the only real problem with ppu's in general (god i never thought i would say it) is para. heals..for the most part..are ok..there is still a bug with area damage..but thats a whole nother ball of wax, since all heals do it. as far as NO skill. Im going to have to disagree. As far as playing wise, money, leveling...or any aspect of the game i can think of besides poking. The ppu is the hardest class. You HAVE to be a fairly good player to be considered even HALF way decent as a ppu.. As far as them being overpowered..i beg to differ. Lets say for instance that ppu's where takin out of the game intirely.. and hybrids as well. what would that leave us with..hmm tanks can heal...monks cant do shit...AHA the PE.....he would be the new ppu class. it would be the same effect all over again..it would be he who has the PE ppu up his ass wins..and the same bullshit whining would go on and on and on. So to sum it up..if you cant take it go play wow or something. go play sims online..this game is MADE to be a certain way..if you dont like it, quit playing and go mow the lawn..
let the flames begin :)
a PPU / APU team can beat a whole team of non-monks with ease.
is this balanced?
THE_TICK!!!!
03-07-05, 22:14
bro me and you will never agree on this...but ill answer your question...yep its ballanced...cause if a apu ppu can beat a team of people...they suck...or the apu ppu are a very VERY good team, And throw a ppu in the mix anywhere and there is a slight advantage depending ont he ppu's skill. ( just remembered) In fact and im sure blood will back me up on this i took an apu ppu team, down on big momma a NON capped tank ....killed the apu and the ppu ran ... and we all know im a mediocre pvper at best...so i think it all depends on skill...........and how pissed you are and how much beer you drank :)
Jesterthegreat
03-07-05, 22:23
equally skilled APU / PPU vs 3 tanks.
now... the tanks cant anti buff... can barely nib buff.
they can spam their weapon of choice... but the PPU / APU team would still win.
the advantage a PPU adds to a team should exactly equal the advantage an additional damage dealer does.
now i'm willing to bend on this and say a balanced team should be better than all one class... but not in the way that 2 monks can beat 4 tanks.
speaking of that i've dropped loads of hints about peoples sigs which are too tall and directly reported them (being the good boy that i am) but nothing gets done. its almost enough for me to just join em in having bigger sigs to fit more in.
:edit: not aimed at you... aimed at people with more than 100pix img / more than 6 lines of text / combo adding up to more than 100 pix
for as long as you've been around jester, you shouldn't be surprised by this
Jesterthegreat
03-07-05, 22:38
for as long as you've been around jester, you shouldn't be surprised by this
if my sigs werent always removed then i wouldnt be bothered...
ahh you guys are clueless when it comes to monks you've never even seen an overpowered monk or even a good monk.
what you have at current are nerfed to shite and back and you still complain.
go learn how to play your own class then come back and complain about monks
Mechanicus
04-07-05, 15:10
someone had to lay it down strait
THE_TICK!!!!
04-07-05, 17:15
ahhhh nicely said :)
ahh you guys are clueless when it comes to monks you've never even seen an overpowered monk or even a good monk.
...
go learn how to play your own class then come back and complain about monks
You make a big assumption and generalization that's arrogant, insulting and wrong. But you are right that monks now days are hugely nerfed compared to previous monks and people are still complaining. But they should be complaining, monks are the only class people bring to op wars with a small exception here and there for tanks or sometimes droners.
How about this;
Make it so every player can only have 1 shelter, 1 deflector and 1 heal active at a time. That means if a PPU were to s/d himself, he could not s/d anyone else unless he wanted to sacrifice his own s/d. If he wanted to heal someone he could not heal himself unless he wanted to cancel their heal. If this were to be implemented, S/D would have to have 100% effectiveness on foreign cast again and higher level buffs would have to replace lower level ones.
Edit: problem with this... a PPU could antibuff you by casting holy s/d then casting on himself. A fix could be allowing S/D/Heals to stack. That seems overpowered but think about it... if 5 PPUs all put S/D/Heal on 1 tank yes he'd be invincible, but you'd have 5 PPUs running around with the defense of an APU.... hehehe.
what your mistaking for arrogance is knowledge
i know that your complaining because in reality its your absolute lack of skill.
i could guarantee i could take your char and i would spank down any monk you wanted me to because it really is that easy.
the reason you say its all people bring to opwars is because a ppu + apu combo is the easiest combo with neither char needing skill so in your current server world of zerging and laming it appears as if its monks that are over powered and ppus that make things last forever.
what you dont realise is that its not the class being over powered its again lack of skill on their part (as well as your part) that put it into the current situation.
if you take a look at the current opwar teams it'll be 1 ppu to perhaps 2 other people now if you take a look back at old opwar teams even when monks were ALOT more powerfull than they currently are and you'd find 1 ppu babysitting upto 9 others. that alone requires more skill.
what you have now is a class that's been nerfed and carebared and destroyed instead of the correct fixes being implemented which would in turn of balanced out the entire game. you now have a problem of lacking of skill in the player base and a game thats not balanced for shite the combination of the 2 + inbalanced sides and zerging has lead you to your conclusion that its monks that are the root of all problems.
heres one for you arrange a dummy opwar with a clan each side fields 10 tanks only
then repeat the process with 10 pe's only then 10 spys only then 10 apu's only then do a normal 10v10 opwar with anysetup either side likes and see whats the fun part.
I know if i was going to be opwaring against any size force my setup would be like this
2x ppu
2x apu
1x droner
5x tanks 2 melee 3 hc
and if i had the choice of people that setup alone would spank any number of people coming against us.
see your again judging something with not enough experience or knowledge of the mechanics of the game or the reasons its now as it is which leads you to your false conclusions.
perhaps you should do some research before making wild claims about something you know nothing about.
after reading this i'm tempted to reactivate my account just to demonstrate your inabilities even though its nearly 2 years since i last played i'll bet you i still have more skill that you or anyone of your choice does.
if my sigs werent always removed then i wouldnt be bothered...
got mine removed for having a line of txt under it in smalest font ... :mad:
also u cant do only shleter OR deflector or you would see ppl nib deflector/shelter and destroy enemys buff.
only one of each cast per person would work, only 1 heal one deflector 1 shelter, unles u use group, but then all u need is a meele tank to get close enough to share group heals/shelter/deflectors and the ppu is fuked (or apu or spy or tank or pe for that matter)
actual;y 1 cast of each type of spell seems good to me, say u shelter sumbody and they get a forien sign and u get a sign to that is in a different colour from self buffs (damage colour in rpos rather than heal colour for example) then with this u could to time ur buffs better, to find out if sumbody was anti buffed, and a host of other things, it would still enable the ppu to team but it would mean they have to use group spells unles they come preprepaired for fight, (maby make anti buffin the ppu anti buff EVERYBODY *make the cast sign take longer to compensate* or if u anti buff the player because the ppu is hiding zoned down then only he gets antibuffed)
just some more advanced ideas
Mechanicus
04-07-05, 18:00
worst idea ever koshinn
clans would just take 3 ppus for every one fighter
worst idea ever koshinn
clans would just take 3 ppus for every one fighter
Then you'd kill the 3 ppus before the one fighter could kill one of your people, then triple team the 1 fighter. :p Another fix for the problem would be to make S/D only works on teammates.
hinch - are you judging me as a noob because of my account activation date? or my name which you've never heard of because you haven't played in two years? how can you possibly know how good I am, or anyone else here is, if you haven't played in TWO YEARS? That's arrogance and ignorance. Many people on this thread have played since NC1 beta or the start of NC1 retail and lived through the extremely overpowered hybrids, myself included. I've had a few accounts and changed my forum account more than once because of account expiration. I've changed my name about 15 times in game through rerolling or GMs or the char transfer into NC2. You may know a lot about NC1 but thinking you're the best player that ever lived, the only source of knowledge and thinking that it applies to NC2 is arrogant.
he got hybrids nerfed, of course he's going to be arrogant :lol:
@hinch: i'm speechless...
so the problem with overpowered ppus is our lack of skills while playing those ppus ?
amazing...
@ everyone else:
give all classes spirit mods, remove psi use, remove holy line of spells etc etc.
thousands of ideas, yet nothing will ever get done about it and everyone knows that i think, cause this is the real reason which gives a fuel to all those discussions - feeling of hopelesness...
...which is also the reason i could actually support eprodigy's way of reasoning.
remove monks and all problems with NC will be solved.
Jesterthegreat
04-07-05, 19:11
hinch. check some join dates here. you arent the only one who was here when hyb's were actually gods.
i'll admit that i didnt play one. and ill admit that monks arent as bad now as they were then. that doesnt mean its all good.
he got hybrids nerfed, of course he's going to be arrogant :lol:
... and he was a crappy one.
fluffner was good, deepthought was awesome...
but hinch, aka [FAnG]Monkey ... ? no :p
Jesterthegreat
04-07-05, 19:20
... and he was a crappy one.
fluffner was good, deepthought was awesome...
but hinch, aka [FAnG]Monkey ... ? no :p
never knew his hyb... but was in ssc with him for a while on uranus... his ego is bigger than any skill i saw.
but then isnt it with most people?
RogerRamjet
04-07-05, 19:24
The PPU problem doesnt lie within the games mechanics, but in the people who play. If you wanna win an OP war, you have 1 PPU for 1 - 2 fighter. Its garuanteed victory, so why change it?
Although i missed the times when Hybrids were God, ive heard from many people how bad it was. Anyone remember, i think, Calvin Stormlord from uranus. Im certain he was a good hybrid back when each point of APU/PPU minused the other.
ahh you guys are clueless when it comes to monks you've never even seen an overpowered monk or even a good monk.
what you have at current are nerfed to shite and back and you still complain.
go learn how to play your own class then come back and complain about monks
*bows* he has played longer therefore all class imbalances that exist now are now nullified. thank you.
they weren't nerfed enough. they are still not balanced. they are just overpowered differently. monks have never been about balance thats why they need to be removed.
telling us to learn how to play our own class, coming from a player of the class that requires no learning.
*bows* he has played longer therefore all class imbalances that exist now are now nullified. thank you.
they weren't nerfed enough. they are still not balanced. they are just overpowered differently. monks have never been about balance thats why they need to be removed.
telling us to learn how to play our own class, coming from a player of the class that requires no learning.
what a tank and a low tech pistol pe and a drone spy oO ok.. only monk left on the account is a ppu :)
@jester i was never in ssc oO was in hiveminds clan 4dw or whatever :)
oh and no i wasnt looking at your join dates at all i was looking at the fact to drop a ppu is easy yet you complain and the reason theres so many monks is because of your lack of skill. ie: learn to read properly then comment ta
what a tank and a low tech pistol pe and a drone spy oO ok.. only monk left on the account is a ppu :)
@jester i was never in ssc oO was in hiveminds clan 4dw or whatever :)
oh and no i wasnt looking at your join dates at all i was looking at the fact to drop a ppu is easy yet you complain and the reason theres so many monks is because of your lack of skill. ie: learn to read properly then comment ta
"home of the disillusioned"
seems like u living in a pretty small and fragile world eh?
stay calm, there is nothing to fear, you are ubar, you can kill everyone and everyone is just lacking your extraordinary skills... you are god incarnate...
now go to sleep
Jesterthegreat
04-07-05, 20:29
what a tank and a low tech pistol pe and a drone spy oO ok.. only monk left on the account is a ppu :) drone is unskilled... i know cos it was my main on uranus :p tank doesnt need skill to play, but does to be really dood. LT pistol PE takes skill cos you gotta hit so much to do real damage.
@jester i was never in ssc oO was in hiveminds clan 4dw or whatever :) hmm... i seem to remember you and QD being mates, just assumed you were actually in ssc :p my bad
oh and no i wasnt looking at your join dates at all i was looking at the fact to drop a ppu is easy yet you complain and the reason theres so many monks is because of your lack of skill. ie: learn to read properly then comment ta
i see. my lack of skill causes everyone to roll a monk.
it all becomes clear :rolleyes:
jester your very good at the word games.
let me make it clearer for you
the average skill of the player is lower now than it was at the start of nc2 when there were still considerably more vets left around.
so the solution to ensure that the clans always win now is to have 50% ppus and 48% apus with rest random stuff and zerg.
gone are teh days of 4 or 5 man skilled non monk teams being able to hold off entire clans so average skill level is now so low that you are being forced into the mindset of must have monks to survive etc etc blah blah blah which is turn leads to people seeing monks nearly everywhere and because of that screaming nerf the monks.
now if people learnt how to take out ppu teams fast and efficiently again then you'd see alot less complaining. if people instead of thinking "ohnoz opwar take ze monks" thought well i'll go on my hc tank or something instead you wouldnt even have a thread like this.
peoples fear of loosing and lack of confidence to say "i can do this without a monk" is what leads them to this.
its not about monks or ppu's being over powered its about people being too shit and knowing it and not admitting it to them selfs that ends you up here.
and for the record i died alot mainly to xantor i think every time i dueled him :)
and n1n3 spanked me abit :) fking droner :)
"home of the disillusioned"
seems like u living in a pretty small and fragile world eh?
stay calm, there is nothing to fear, you are ubar, you can kill everyone and everyone is just lacking your extraordinary skills... you are god incarnate...
now go to sleep
gotta comment on this one too its very funny *claps*
the disillusionment is in KK because the forum was setup for people who were forced out of NC by KK and its carebear attitudes and constant nerfs to everything instead of balancing. + its general sledge hammer approach to the game instead of concentrating on things that were wrong with it and sorting it out properly + waiting 5 months to get a single patch was annoying.
never knew his hyb... but was in ssc with him for a while on uranus... his ego is bigger than any skill i saw.
but then isnt it with most people?
on jupiter he was shit ... then he had such a big mouth about furious angels pwning everyone in nc2 ... and they got their asses kicked :p
saw his ppu running from a lonely apu ^^...
but u'r right, most ppls ego is way bigger as it should be :rolleyes:
btw hinch, my bro ganked ya with his droner ? which one of ur chars, ur ppu :lol: ?
..so you're admitting they're unbalanced, but if we just deal with that and beat them anyway, they will all switch to skill classes?
hinch, from what I remember it was getting mainly monks at op wars towards the end of NC1. I didnt play the start of NC2 though (only the beta) so I cant really comment on that, I gather these vets that were still around did infact come back to start NC2 and then left?
If monks were really that balanced, why would so many people choose to play them? Would a monk in the hand of a skilled player be more powerful than another class in the hand of a skilled player? That's the question isnt it? If everyone is so shit now (ie the same skill level), why do so many of the non monk classes complain about this when they get their arses handed to them? It is possible to beat monks, but in their masses they seem to be far more effective when playing against people of equal skill who chose other characters.
Jesterthegreat
04-07-05, 20:55
on jupiter he was shit ... then he had such a big mouth about furious angels pwning everyone in nc2 ... and they got their asses kicked :p
saw his ppu running from a lonely apu ^^...
but u'r right, most ppls ego is way bigger as it should be :rolleyes:
btw hinch, my bro ganked ya with his droner ? which one of ur chars, ur ppu :lol: ?
yeah i watched FaNG run off to another server ;)
jester your very good at the word games.
thank you
let me make it clearer for you
the average skill of the player is lower now than it was at the start of nc2 when there were still considerably more vets left around. i find people who call themselves "vets" rarely are. though i won't disagree alot of very good people have quit.
so the solution to ensure that the clans always win now is to have 50% ppus and 48% apus with rest random stuff and zerg.
thats the thing... certain clans now want to win more than they want to have fun. the solution? bring chars that you need less skill to do better at.
gone are teh days of 4 or 5 man skilled non monk teams being able to hold off entire clans so average skill level is now so low that you are being forced into the mindset of must have monks to survive etc etc blah blah blah which is turn leads to people seeing monks nearly everywhere and because of that screaming nerf the monks. when you get off your high horse we can duel sometime. i assume since you post here your account is active.
now if people learnt how to take out ppu teams fast and efficiently again then you'd see alot less complaining. if people instead of thinking "ohnoz opwar take ze monks" thought well i'll go on my hc tank or something instead you wouldnt even have a thread like this.so... instead of trying to get KK to actually fix an imbalance, we should just deal with it? people do. people noob buff. what happens? more whining and exploit accusations fly out of the monks mouthes.
peoples fear of loosing and lack of confidence to say "i can do this without a monk" is what leads them to this. cant remember the last time a PPU supported me personally.
its not about monks or ppu's being over powered its about people being too shit and knowing it and not admitting it to them selfs that ends you up here. it is indeed about people being "too shit" and the fact that them being "too shit" doesnt matter as much when they play a monk. whether you (and Mr Friendly. the 2 biggest monk activists i have seen in a long time) admit it or not.
and for the record i died alot mainly to xantor i think every time i dueled him :) didnt everyone? i forget if he popped 5 or 8 drugs... but i know he would leave PP1 every 5 mins tops cos he had major drug flash :p and he didnt use DB either, if he did he could have been even better :p
and n1n3 spanked me abit :) fking droner :)
pssh. i killed whole op war teams solo as a droner in NC1. deleted my droner in nc2 though when i decided i cared more about fun than ops.
didnt everyone?
cant forget what bryan said about him :lol:
ahhhh jester, face it : a PE has to use drugs, to be any good ;)
and btw i "only" took 4 drugs, effectively playing was about 1-2 hours until the uber drugflash ;)
Jesterthegreat
04-07-05, 21:28
ahhhh jester, face it : a PE has to use drugs, to be any good ;)
and btw i "only" took 4 drugs, effectively playing was about 1-2 hours until the uber drugflash ;)
my bad :p
oh and both my PE's use 2 drugs.
but i'm sure you left PP1 alot more often than 1-2 hours, and i know it wasnt cos you were bein killed :p
THE_TICK!!!!
04-07-05, 21:29
jester im offended, you dont remember me :( as for all the tada in this thread.. ive seen this mindset get worse and worse. this went from a ppu thread to take all monks out of game..ive seen level 40 pe's take out a APU. with ease. ive seen a tank take out a capped ppu. Not easy but it can be done. The main problem as i see it..is well and jester dont you laugh. Para is a bitch. and the heal damage is fucked up, The worse your hit the more it heals. Its not SPOSED to do that. if your shot in the head and get a heal, it heals at the set rate, same with feet and middle, BUT if your hit on all area's, then it multiplies by 3. Its a big factor and something i think many of you overlook.
Jesterthegreat
04-07-05, 21:40
jester im offended, you dont remember me :( as for all the tada in this thread.. ive seen this mindset get worse and worse. this went from a ppu thread to take all monks out of game..ive seen level 40 pe's take out a APU. with ease. ive seen a tank take out a capped ppu. Not easy but it can be done. The main problem as i see it..is well and jester dont you laugh. Para is a bitch. and the heal damage is fucked up, The worse your hit the more it heals. Its not SPOSED to do that. if your shot in the head and get a heal, it heals at the set rate, same with feet and middle, BUT if your hit on all area's, then it multiplies by 3. Its a big factor and something i think many of you overlook.
the way i imagine heals work (which is prolly incorrect) is as anti damage.
if this is the case then change heals to non-locational anti damage and thats the heal issue sorted and we can see if thats sorted it enough.
im a vet :p , i may have stopped playing a few times, but im coming back :)
Jesterthegreat
04-07-05, 21:52
im a vet :p , i may have stopped playing a few times, but im coming back :)
pretty much proves my point earlier in the thread
btw hinch, my bro ganked ya with his droner ? which one of ur chars, ur ppu :lol: ?
lol nine beat all my chars with his droner appart from my ppu :)
and on jupiter i think you'll find i was hardly shit infact repping in on several occations after fang had wiped and pulling off a synaptic in combat res on other "better known" ppu's
@ jester account was cancelled 2 weeks after nc2 launch i've already had this discussion with nid
ye actualy thats the main problem they need to fix the area that heal affects, but the troubble is they cant, or they would have done long ago, so for now i say they do a quick fix until they work sumin out
erm nice avatar zovos you should be in the movies
Jesterthegreat
04-07-05, 23:17
@ jester account was cancelled 2 weeks after nc2 launch i've already had this discussion with nid
one of those situations is it? :rolleyes:
:edit: eprod... i made my sig thinkin of you :p
lol nine beat all my chars with his droner appart from my ppu :)
he tooked his apu to kick ur ppus ass :lol:
btw, u dont got the hybs nerfed :rolleyes: . ouch
pretty much proves my point earlier in the thread
u mean ur point that most have left?
:edit: eprod... i made my sig thinkin of you :p
aww is so pretty too :angel:
cant find my damn psd to edit my other one!
erm nice avatar zovos you should be in the movies
lmao i know mine aint clean but i saved as a gif and the whole picture fuked up, and since i fresh formated again yestearday (amual 30 day format) i aint had time to whack in a graphics packadge
cant do the colour on a gif cant get the size ona jpg, life suks
RogerRamjet
05-07-05, 03:01
cant forget what bryan said about him :lol:
HAHAHA, Bryan was literally Decimators arch enemy.
Sorry, but i <3 teh Deci.
RogerRamjet
05-07-05, 03:09
ahhhh jester, face it : a PE has to use drugs, to be any good ;)
and btw i "only" took 4 drugs, effectively playing was about 1-2 hours until the uber drugflash ;)
Come back to PP1, stand on that sign .Atleast i can pretend im on uranus, PLEASE.
lmao i know mine aint clean but i saved as a gif and the whole picture fuked up, and since i fresh formated again yestearday (amual 30 day format) i aint had time to whack in a graphics packadge
cant do the colour on a gif cant get the size ona jpg, life suks
ms paint ftw
I don't play NC anymore becasue of monks. I came back... but pvp is a waste of time now. KK you will not be getting any more of my money unless this is fixed.. I thought pvp server would save the game for me... but there are problems that need to be looked at first.
I don't play NC anymore becasue of monks. I came back... but pvp is a waste of time now
http://www.ccps.org/cecilm/webexploclip/Checkmark-1.gif
Original monk
05-07-05, 09:15
why wait at KK ??
lets all delete our monks !!!!
:lol:
I think THE TICK!!!! brings it down to the point, not only about the "what would happen if monks get removed"-scenario, but also about the healing. Seeing that Lupus is working on this issue we migh see a change in how this works sooner or later, and it will affect the power of monks a great deal (and not only them I think).
the advantage a PPU adds to a team should exactly equal the advantage an additional damage dealer does.While the idea itself sounds good, it doesn't work out. As a PPU you can buff multiple players. This means the more you buff, the less effective these buffs have to get to make your idea work. You know what the players will do then ...
You can't delete a whole class, we're too far down that road. Equally, any major changes to the monk must be very carefully thought through, and accompanied by a points release.
Nerf Para? - Make Anti Drugs Stackable. Its part of combat, deal with it.
There have been countless threads with suggestions of how to balance the classes, its just up to KK now to pick one and try it out. The recent runcast nerf was unexpected and generally a pain for everyone, although making the monks stand still for casting does actually work quite well. The problem is that the server isn't quick enough to recognise when people are standing still.
I've been reading the posts where people say the best players have gone, and skills are down. Well I disagree, more people than ever understand the team mechanics of fighting, and the importance of coordinating fire. I've been fighting op wars for 3 years and its more challenging now than it was at any other time (turrets nerf is the big change, also server catch up lag is worse than in Neocron 1). The main reason I think the monks got boosted was the Gaya Glove, which was a big change. Maybe that needs to be moderated a little.
I would be very sad to see the monks get a shafting, as, despite their inbalance, they do require a very coordinated team to play well, rather than individual fighters doing their own thing, which seems to be what you are all after. Bear in mind that your style of play (solo killers) doesn't always match how other people want to play. I for instance feel the most satisfaction when a well organised team of fighters (including ppus) succeeds against a similar team. Breaking up this mechanic will only harm the game's appeal for me.
I think the solution is a slight nerf to foreign casts, and maybe run casting, plus drugs stackable - and that is enough. We don't need no sledghammer patches on this issue thankyou very much.
Just my opinion, you are entitled to yours.
Nerf Para? - Make Anti Drugs Stackable. Its part of combat, deal with it.
Really, it shouldn't be.
But then again, that's just because I hate being parashocked for half of every OP we fight at.
The only thing that para should combat is stealthing. But that's because stealth and the TSS are broken. Mainly stealths 3 and the oblit, they just go on too long for their "ease of use".
Jesterthegreat
05-07-05, 13:30
Nerf Para? - Make Anti Drugs Stackable. Its part of combat, deal with it.
fix fatals? - its part of the game. deal with it.
see how stupid it sounds?
THE_TICK!!!!
05-07-05, 13:32
sex to ya sulty :) pm me f00ker
On the para issue, I think you can solfve the argument pretty simply - what does para add to the game? Yeah, thought so. Remove it.
Original monk
05-07-05, 14:16
On the para issue, I think you can solfve the argument pretty simply - what does para add to the game? Yeah, thought so. Remove it.
my tought exactly ... in NC1 i was against removal but now its yust absurd so ditch para :) simple he ..
everything else like: remove ppu's :rolleyes: remove monks :rolleyes: is yust plain bullshit ... not like its ever gonna happen :D
and if KK ever plans to delete them sweet monkey's .. practicaly half of the chars on my accounts will be gone .. then it will be back to fps's and rts's with me :)
RogerRamjet
05-07-05, 14:26
I agree with removing Para.
Edit. Runcasting has officially been nerfed? Well how come when im not running it still fizzles. So i may aswell remove all my psi use, since its useless?
Dribble Joy
05-07-05, 14:38
My god, is this thread still going?
The runcasting thing is somewhat concerning though.
Runcasting nerf, whilst stealthed in in the last patch will only ruin the game for all chars except PPU.
A PPU can stand still cast buffs with holy heal going and survive, a tank stops still to cast a heal = dead tank.
Hopefully kk will resolve the current Fizzle to what they had designed for implementation. Lets hope this time they are a bit more upfront and tell us the intended effect in the patch not let us just discover it!
fix fatals? - its part of the game. deal with it.
see how stupid it sounds?
Fatals are an unintended part of the game, unlike Parashock which is there as a combat game mechanic. So yes, to take my comment and apply to a different thing completely does sound stupid...
Combat is Buffing, Healing, Shooting, Debuffing, Running, Aiming, DRUGGING, etc etc. I don't like being Para'd either, but to see skilled runners deal with it with rapid antishock spells or drugs just convinces me more that its a part of being skilled at combat. To remove Para is to lessen the game. It would be the same as removing damage boost or poison stacking.
Would I cry if it was removed tomorrow? No, I'd probably be happy like you, but today, its a weapon with 3 ways to counter it - use them.
Dribble Joy
05-07-05, 14:56
but to see skilled runners deal with it with rapid antishock spells or drugs just convinces me more that its a part of being skilled at combat. To remove Para is to lessen the game. It would be the same as removing damage boost or poison stacking.
Would I cry if it was removed tomorrow? No, I'd probably be happy like you, but today, its a weapon with 3 ways to counter it - use them.
Which might be true if the way to counter it were viable ones and the nature and intention of Para wasn't as it is.
Would I cry if it was removed tomorrow? No, I'd probably be happy like you, but today, its a weapon with 3 ways to counter it - use them.
True so true :lol:
PPU problem? is there one? or can some players not fight them effectively?
Dribble Joy
05-07-05, 15:01
:rolleyes:
I just can't connect parashock with skilled combat.
Ignoring Melee Tank Shockers for a second, when a PPU decides to use Parashock he is using a lot of mana, while taking his attention away from the people he is trying to protect. For instance, if a team is having trouble hitting a fast melee tank, para is the right weapon in that situation.
From the perspective of the person getting frozen, being able to counter the paralysis as soon as possible, while still able to fight, shows the skill of a player. The otherday we were hunting a stealthing PE and he demonstrated the perfect use of anti drugs, negating both para and damage boost to evade death for a good 20 minutes. We got him in the end when he ran out, but it was very impressive.
RogerRamjet
05-07-05, 18:44
[QUOTE=Selendor]Ignoring Melee Tank Shockers for a second, when a PPU decides to use Parashock he is using a lot of mana, while taking his attention away from the people he is trying to protect.[QUOTE]
I can cast about 4 - 5 holy paras before i need to stop and let me mana recharge. How about make it like the old cath sanc, have it use like 300+ mana (sorry all you no PA fellas out there).
Jesterthegreat
05-07-05, 19:13
so... which of the people arguing against sorting monks out don't play a monk?
anyone?
i do... but my eyes are open. i have a ppu. i have para. i still see the issues with ppus.
Ignoring Melee Tank Shockers for a second, when a PPU decides to use Parashock he is using a lot of mana, while taking his attention away from the people he is trying to protect.
thats wierd then that 9/10 ppus para spam you before you do anything not to mention the second it wears or you pop a drug hit you with it again even when its like 12vs1, what would the team do without para? they might have to turn to aim at someone, we cant have that... apus already dont have to aim now they want someone to just stand sitll while they kill them..
thats wierd then that 9/10 ppus para spam you before you do anything
I disagree with that, I think thats an exaggeration. But its your opinion.
You get a lot of para when there is an abundance of ppu's, but you would get similar imbalance with a lot of apus, tanks, droners etc.
I don't think this thread helps the monk issue very much, there were some much more constructive arguments put forward a month or so ago when KK mentioned they were looking at it. My position is neutral, I think you could change monks slightly to spice things up a bit, but asking for removal is over the top, and would be the death of the game, without question.
I disagree with that, I think thats an exaggeration. But its your opinion.
You get a lot of para when there is an abundance of ppu's, but you would get similar imbalance with a lot of apus, tanks, droners etc.
I don't think this thread helps the monk issue very much, there were some much more constructive arguments put forward a month or so ago when KK mentioned they were looking at it. My position is neutral, I think you could change monks slightly to spice things up a bit, but asking for removal is over the top, and would be the death of the game, without question.
the problem is that constructive arguments are beeing recycled for 2 years already and that the linguistic creativity has its limits...
Jesterthegreat
05-07-05, 20:47
the problem is that constructive arguments are beeing recycled for 2 years already and that the linguistic creativity has its limits...
exactly. how many times must the ideas be said?
exactly. how many times must the ideas be said?
Keep the ideas alive until NC has more players, less bugs and kK has more time to devote to game balance rather than new features and stability to attract new players.
I disagree with that, I think thats an exaggeration. But its your opinion.
You get a lot of para when there is an abundance of ppu's, but you would get similar imbalance with a lot of apus, tanks, droners etc.
I don't think this thread helps the monk issue very much, there were some much more constructive arguments put forward a month or so ago when KK mentioned they were looking at it. My position is neutral, I think you could change monks slightly to spice things up a bit, but asking for removal is over the top, and would be the death of the game, without question.
its not an opinion, its personal experiance.
removing monks would NOT be the death of the game, it would be the death of a whole bandwagon no skill class that is unbalanced and ruins the game for everyone who doesnt hop on it. i know a lot of monks would quit but they'd do so anyway the second they couldnt whore their PPU and be able to stand in one spot shooting people that cant move like they do now. i know a hell of a lot more people who'd come back if there wasnt monks ;)
Original monk
05-07-05, 22:59
removing monks would NOT be the death of the game
to me it would
sorry eprodigy but you're full of shit on this one. Not every monk is completely incapable of playing the other classes, ditch the fucking arrogance. For some bizarre reason you can't grasp some people actually might enjoy playing ppu's because they are the closest this game has to a support class and that's a style of play lots of people enjoy.
I personally dislike the slasher PE's who whore their newbie stealth and the nearest zoneline while bragging away on trade/ooc when they kill someone who fatalled or got a long sync while zoning in. If I was to take your attitude I'd say every single pistol PE is like that and has that attitude and damn aren't they just scum the lot of them...
Generalizing is great isn't it.
you might have skill on other classes but you definetly dont even need a small percentage of it to play a monk as effectively as you do the other classes
My Ideal Monk Patch Notes:
Patch #140
Module Damage, Frequency, Handling, and Aiming Changes
- Aiming Reticles have been applied to all single cast attack spells (i.e. APU Attack spells, Parashock, Damage Boost). Only a fully closed reticle will do full damage. A barely close reticle will do approximately 10% of full damage or 'fizzle'. Aiming is now based off of Mental Steadiness with a small influence by PSI Use - making Mental Steadiness is virtually the same for PSI Modules as Weapon Lore is for Pistols.
- Overall Monk Range has been decreased by 10%.
- Damage Cap for APU Modules has been reduced to 576% to still make them 'cappable' with the new MST changes.
Locational Damage Changes
- Locational damage for all Beam-Based Modules is now treated as head-location damage as it comes from the sky.
- Locational damage for all Barrel-Based Modules is now treated as leg-location damage as it comes from the ground.
- Locational damage for Halo-Based Modules is now treated as upper-torso-location damage as it focuses on the middle of the player.
- All locational damage for other modules (Bolts, Balls, Blasts, Lances, etc) is based on a player's aim, as pistols/rifles/etc are.
Parashock Changes
- All Parashock Modules no longer do any HP-removing damage.
- All Parashock Module PSI Pool Reqs have been increased by 50%. (i.e. Holy Paralysis goes from a PSI Pool Casting cost of 150 PSI to 225 PSI)
- All Parashock Modules now only reduce run-speed, not turning speed.
- All Parashock Module Shock effects have been reduced by 35%
Foreign & Self Cast Changes
- Foreign Holy Heals now have the same 50% malus that Holy Shelter and Holy Deflector have when foreign cast.
- Self-Cast Buffs now override any Foreign Cast Buffs and reset the countdown time. This does *not* apply to Booster Modules/Primaries or Heals, only Shelter and Deflector. Works for all TLs in either direction (i.e. a PE can override a foreign cast Holy/Blessed Shelter with his own TL 25 Shelter or a PPU can override a foreign cast TL 25 Shelter with Holy/Blessed Shelter.
Ressurection Changes
- A successfully resurrected player now receives 5% SI (similar to when a Droner loses a Drone)
- Ressurection Time has been reduced by 10%
Content Addition
- TL 115 Parashock Halo has been added, Holy Neutral Immersion - Behaves like the Holy Paralysis does previous to this patch. Neutralisis also reduces turning speed. Note: Requires WOC INT+2.
- Spirit Mods are back! Hitting a player with a Spirit-Modded Silent Hunter will add a counter to their PSI Effects and shortly after, remove their shelter. (Similar to the MOSQUITO Drone Effect with Heals). Note: Modding a Silent Hunter with this mod will add the WOC DEX+2 Requirement.
Graphical Updates
- Anti-Shelter now has an Orange-ish Halo effect on a victim when successfully cast.
- Anti-Deflector now has a White-ish Halo effect on a victim when successfully cast.
- Anti-Heal now has a Yellow-ish Halo effect on a victim when successfully cast.
- Anti-Buff (All 3) now has a Red-ish Halo effect on a victim when successfully cast.
- A player successfully hit with Holy Neutral Immersion looks like they are on fire, except with a blue flame.
- New Graphics for Aggressive and Passive Power armors. Similar to the NeoLauncher Pro shaded versions of Red and Blue.
Skill Points
- Similar to Patch #168 in Neocron 1, all the points invested in PSI subskills and PSI Use have been released, you can assign them again to adjust your skills to the changes to Mental Steadiness and PSI Use.
^^ everything but the "keeping para" (in any form)
Asurmen Spec Op
06-07-05, 02:17
<3 to FN for being smart
My Ideal Monk Patch Notes:
wow, you should work for KK =p
Nice well-thought out changes FN, oh apart from one. The problem with trying to make MST like wep lore is that wep lore never conflicts with a main weapon skill since its tucked away under INT. You would actually be shafting PE's and spies with their relative lack of spare psi points to go round(in the spies case zero extra...) Monks could probably soak up the mst change and still manage to get their spells at or very near to cap.
I would still like to see kk fix how the heals currently work before any grand changes are brought into play. Will a ppu or even any other player be quite as godlike without the heal basicly tripling in effectiveness when all their hitboxes have been damaged(as usually happens when they are near death)?
Dargeshaad
06-07-05, 03:02
Nice well-thought out changes FN, oh apart from one. The problem with trying to make MST like wep lore is that wep lore never conflicts with a main weapon skill since its tucked away under INT. You would actually be shafting PE's and spies with their relative lack of spare psi points to go round(in the spies case zero extra...) Monks could probably soak up the mst change and still manage to get their spells at or very near to cap.
Okayy....
- Aiming Reticles have been applied to all single cast attack spells (i.e. APU Attack spells, Parashock, Damage Boost).
Only a fully closed reticle will do full damage. A barely close reticle will do approximately 10% of full damage or 'fizzle'. Aiming is now based off of Mental Steadiness with a small influence by PSI Use - making Mental Steadiness is virtually the same for PSI Modules as Weapon Lore is for Pistols.
So how many APU based PEs/Spies do you see around?
Module Damage, Frequency, Handling, and Aiming Changes
- Aiming Reticles have been applied to all single cast attack spells (i.e. APU Attack spells, Parashock, Damage Boost). Only a fully closed reticle will do full damage. A barely close reticle will do approximately 10% of full damage or 'fizzle'. Aiming is now based off of Mental Steadiness with a small influence by PSI Use - making Mental Steadiness is virtually the same for PSI Modules as Weapon Lore is for Pistols.
- Overall Monk Range has been decreased by 10%.
- Damage Cap for APU Modules has been reduced to 576% to still make them 'cappable' with the new MST changes.
You've just killed both the apu and ppu classes with that.
Giving apu's both a reticle, a damage nerf, an aiming (the mst part) nerf and a range nerf (if the overall reduction in range is to the apu spells) is way too much. All apu's need at the moment is a reticle to be on par with other classes, in the "aiming" department. They may need a damage reduction after that, depending on the actual maximum damage for the apu spells.
Giving a ppu a reticle just kills that class. I'm fairly sure others can see that. Yes they do need a nerf, but giving them a reticle isn't the right way to do that.
I do like the changes to the self-cast and foreign cast buffs. The holy heal does either need a nerf or a change (the whole, healing 3 parts of the body at once thing).
I also like the idea of a pe being able to cast a tl 3 deflector on anyone and start hitting away with a termi or whatever. The only problem I see, is this makes the ppu class harder to kill. Especially with a small amount of people. It also really removes the need for the antibuff spell. And even the spirit mods if they were put back ingame.
All just whining and crying by people who don't know how to play the game.
Unfortunately, most people are busy fighting in the game and not whining here on the forums, so we don't have time to counter the anti-monk whining. Hopefully KK understands that and ignores you.
Go to an OP fight. Fight. Notice the perfect balance of ppus. Of course, monks can actually fight back when you're doing your normal GR ganking and they can stop your ally killing spree, therefore they must be bad. You can't imagine that you're simply unskilled because you don't know how to play a monk or to kill one, since you're the master of the world, just define monks as a no-skill class and whatever you're playing (most likely PE because that's what noobs choose to play when they decide they don't want to specialize) is a very skilled class. Of course, you loose all fights, but that's because the no-skill classes are overpowered.
The poor craftsman blames his tools. The skilled craftsman chooses the right tool for the right task.
Asurmen Spec Op
06-07-05, 07:26
Go to an OP fight. Fight. Notice the perfect balance of ppus. God mode and a mob of jawas isnt balance to me, I perfer to see some people who dont run around in cloaks sometimes
Oh and to your PEs being noobs because they dont want to specialize and always loosing:
I highly doubt that any of the people with the anti monk avatars loose often, Ive NFed with a few of them and, if you ditch your little buttplug for a few, they could easily kick your ass.
The poor craftsman blames his tools. The skilled craftsman takes pride in hard work
Edit:
to those of you whining about FNs
It was only to APUs NOT to PPUs
i dont care about reticle so much, as long as something else is as well to counter hybrids, and para is removed completely. the rest of the stuff with that would be nice..
All just whining and crying by people who don't know how to play the game.
Unfortunately, most people are busy fighting in the game and not whining here on the forums, so we don't have time to counter the anti-monk whining. Hopefully KK understands that and ignores you.
Go to an OP fight. Fight. Notice the perfect balance of ppus. Of course, monks can actually fight back when you're doing your normal GR ganking and they can stop your ally killing spree, therefore they must be bad. You can't imagine that you're simply unskilled because you don't know how to play a monk or to kill one, since you're the master of the world, just define monks as a no-skill class and whatever you're playing (most likely PE because that's what noobs choose to play when they decide they don't want to specialize) is a very skilled class. Of course, you loose all fights, but that's because the no-skill classes are overpowered.
The poor craftsman blames his tools. The skilled craftsman chooses the right tool for the right task.
wow. you are an idiot. that post is almost stupid enough to have to have been a joke. doesnt deserve a real response.
stopped reading when you said PPUs were perfectly balanced ROFL :lol:
Jesterthegreat
06-07-05, 07:57
The poor craftsman blames his tools. The skilled craftsman chooses the right tool for the right task.
the person with an IQ more than 10 sees that if the right "tool" for every single task is a monk then theres a fucking inbalance.
oh and anytime you wanna duel a PE and i'm not bust i'll fight you on average joe.
:edit:
Content Addition
- TL 115 Parashock Halo has been added, Holy Neutral Immersion - Behaves like the Holy Paralysis does previous to this patch. Neutralisis also reduces turning speed. Note: Requires WOC INT+2. int woc just means the kiddies sitting "afk" in cyc lab all day will use it. and since they are the stupidly big clan who i have seen more ppu's at op wars by... thats a bad thing :p
oh and as for the mst change... thats too many skills in 1 stat for one class to spec.apu / ppu high as poss, mst high as poss, ppw high as poss..
Original monk
06-07-05, 09:21
nice patchnotes FN, tough these would be to big changes in 1 go imo :)
things i dont like about em is the aiming reticule ... i agree completely with sultana here, reticule will kill the class .. also i have my doubt on changing the mst skill to aimingskill ...
the rest of em i like yeah ... yust ... ditch para completely, yes complete removal is the only solution ... no wocreq's and certainly no intwoc lol (fucking macro'ers :/ ban every single one for all i care, not like its a secret)... we know by now that nerfing para doesnt work :/ include the meleeshockers with that or they take over the "shockingjob" of the ppu's ...
also the ressurection of the spiritmod would be immensly cool, make it dexwoc 1 so everyone can go snipe ppu's a bit faster :P
Nice theoretical patch but some of those changes would completely nerf the monk class, not balance it. The first part about 10% of damage is a bit low. If a monk is dodging and weaving while he's trying to hit someone, the amount of damage he will do is shit as an apu. A sheltered PE for example would just chew through a non-sheltered apu like it was his job. You shouldn't have to make an apu sit there and not be able to strafe to get full damage from his spell.
Second, bringing spirit mods back is the worst idea ever.
Don't get me wrong, I think the ppu problem is out of hand and I play one as my main character, and I think you are definitely onto some good ideas, but as your plan stands it is a nerf, not a balance.
Would be easier to nerf the monk class imo.
Dargeshaad
06-07-05, 10:14
It takes a nerf to balance the monk class tbfh
You've just killed both the apu and ppu classes with that.
Giving a ppu a reticle just kills that class. I'm fairly sure others can see that. Yes they do need a nerf, but giving them a reticle isn't the right way to do that.
Please read thoroughly
Aiming Reticles have been applied to all single cast attack spells (i.e. APU Attack spells, Parashock, Damage Boost).
PPU Heals remain the same... I.E. NO reticle
however
10% damage on a fully open reticle is a bit harse, but i can see why its there, its there as a token number, as in it can be changed to whatever %. personally i would say 50% is fairer.
Spirit mods? YES FUCKING PLEASE bring em back... also rather than removing shelter, have them remove Deflector, cos SSH + HL = very dead PPU in very quick succession and its a little overpowered.
everything else?
bring the sex... two thumbs fresh
Original monk
06-07-05, 10:29
imo giving apu's an aiming reticule will also kill the class ...
imo giving apu's an aiming reticule will also kill the class ...
depends on the severity of the reticle... closing speeds etc...
yes it the reticle closes like it used to do for tanks, then bye bye monks... but if its like a fully capped Wyatt Earp closing speed, or a tad faster then i'd say cool, go for it.
Good post FN, I don't agree with all the points but is a good selection from which KK should take some should they wish to alter the monks.
@Hegemon hope you have your flame retardant clothes on, you are entering the world of the anti monk fanatic...
...Perhaps the fact that monks have 2 or 3 uses compared to 1 for tanks and PEs is to blame. Their high INT allows them to be effective pokers/hackers as well as dedicated combat characters.
Perhaps if the role of PE (flying vehicles?) was made more important at op wars, this feeling of impotence would be lessened?
Oh, and edit, have you guys actually tried op warring since the latest patch? With spells fizzling all over the place, monks are not as effective as they were, runcasting is mostly out, making them easier targets.
Asurmen Spec Op
06-07-05, 11:31
In a RP sense, MST should obviously effect things like run casting and reticles, unfortunatly it just wont work, monks wouldnt be effected as PEs spys and tanks, who's setups have very little points to spare.
For the reticle, I belive PSI use could work as a weaponlore, itd be easy to cap the reticle closing, but then again its also easy to cap guns too.
And I belive that the reticles will kill monks is as much as the old remove PE stealth 1 and PEs will be ruined
10% is a bit cruel, unless the reticles close pretty fast, wich if PSI use was linked im sure it would.
Or maybe to balance the 10% have at full close you do 105-110% damage, to give a bit more boost to aiming, and because 10% is way to sharp :/
edit at selendor
No I havent op fighted because whenever im on(GMT-7) everyone is ninjaing :(
I like -FN-'s ideas. I do believe that 50% damage on a fully open recticle (as someone else suggested) is a bit to high, it obviously depends on how fast it closes though but if recticle is fully open no time has been spent at all to concentrate on the target. With a weapon, should the recticle be fully open isnt the chance of you actually landing a shot about the same as the proposed 10%? I think something else to bear in mind is that, I gather at least, a monk would not have to deal with recoil like other classes (particularly those who play 1st person!!!) - so once a lock is made it can be kept fairly easily.
Jesterthegreat
06-07-05, 13:20
In a RP sense, MST should obviously effect things like run casting and reticles, unfortunatly it just wont work, monks wouldnt be effected as PEs spys and tanks, who's setups have very little points to spare. fair point, but i think monks having to spec 3 (or 4 if hyb) skills in 1 stat to the highest possible is too much.
For the reticle, I belive PSI use could work as a weaponlore, itd be easy to cap the reticle closing, but then again its also easy to cap guns too. even if its easy to cap the reticle speed... thats fine by me. all other classes cap aim on their weapons (unless you have an odd setup). the point is they would have to aim now.
And I belive that the reticles will kill monks is as much as the old remove PE stealth 1 and PEs will be ruined agreed completely. oh and for the record... most people know i use a PE as my main. and the only time i ever use stealth in combat is if a PPU shows up and para's me. its pointless to stay.
10% is a bit cruel, unless the reticles close pretty fast, wich if PSI use was linked im sure it would. 10% may be cruel... but if i used a judge with the reticle fully open its fairly likely that i would do 0% damage (as i would miss). spells never miss (they fizzle if you cant manage to target for a split second though)
Or maybe to balance the 10% have at full close you do 105-110% damage, to give a bit more boost to aiming, and because 10% is way to sharp :/ apu's have the highest damage there is. i have no problem with this, but woulnt like to see it boosted even more.
agree with hegemon, ppus are perfectly balanced. I got a feeling that all this "skilled" PE's talk only about MB fights, 'cause in op fights will die without ppus and apus.
Go on Terra and count how many ppl playin PPUs and enjoying playin them and after this shout about removin monks. Realy you should spend more time ingame then in forums...
agree with hegemon, ppus are perfectly balanced. I got a feeling that all this "skilled" PE's talk only about MB fights, 'cause in op fights will die without ppus and apus.
Go on Terra and count how many ppl playin PPUs and enjoying playin them and after this shout about removin monks. Realy you should spend more time ingame then in forums...
Sanzen, I think that's a load of rubbish. There were absolutely stacks of op fights back in the day when not everyone was a PPU/APU. I've been to many in my time with just 1 or 2 hybrids and the rests tanks, PEs and spies.
If what everyone says is true, about OP wars being a purely monk domain these days then people are playing monks because they like to win the OP and playing without their monks would jeperdise the chance of their clan winning. I dont think it's because all these people playing monks love playing them more than other classes, it is mainly because the clan in question wants to WIN the op and they know if they face a force of pure monks they are going to need a similar force consisting of monks to compete (thus the other classes are not balanced).
Face it, people like to be on the winning side - that is all - if there was more balance between the monks and other classes, that would lead to more interesting op fights.
well the best op fight in last three month was when we had 4-5 ppus and 4-6 tanks vs two anti clans. But monks were there as ppus and i cant imagine op fight without ppus, 'cause they make op fights realy interesting. Only with ppus its possible to fight 1vs3 2vs5, of course some "skilled" person will tell us couple storys how they owned 1vs5, but still, PPUs make op fights interesting. If you want to fight without ppu, go MB and dont bring monks with you, its so simple.
well the best op fight in last three month was when we had 4-5 ppus and 4-6 tanks vs two anti clans. But monks were there as ppus and i cant imagine op fight without ppus, 'cause they make op fights realy interesting. Only with ppus its possible to fight 1vs3 2vs5, of course some "skilled" person will tell us couple storys how they owned 1vs5, but still, PPUs make op fights interesting. If you want to fight without ppu, go MB and dont bring monks with you, its so simple.
That's not true. If there is no PPU on either side, it is more than possible to take on a few at a time if you put a little thought into it or catch them off guard - I've done that quite a few times in the past (before it got real hard to find a group without PPU backup).
I dont think this thread is about the removal of ppus, just about possible improvements you can make to make the class (mainly para imo) far more bearable to fight against.
I take it if I went down to MB, and found people of similar level to have a competitive fight with, no ppu would be brought along on their side at any point?
I dont know if you remember what the game was like pre-monkacron and it may be just what I like, but it was far more fun back then. Op fights, general pvp and even mob hunting!
I first recognised the need for ppus in op wars early 2003, and rolled one then. We had just lost a fight to a ppu supported clan. I remember on Saturn the the Mercs were famously short of PPUs, they fought on bravely though!
Current op wars I see a nice mix of APUs, Tanks, with a sprinkling of PE's and Spies that stealth around picking off stragglers. Looks healthy to me, although I would agree there are an awful lot of PPUs in recent battles, usually 50%.
Lets see how this runcast tweaking affects the class shall we? Why don't all you non-monk types go out and fight them now that they can't run as much, you might find its made a difference?
Why don't all you non-monk types go out and fight them now that they can't run as much, you might find its made a difference?
Can they stagger cast.... tbh runnin dont matter when your stuck to the ground like a 10000 ton weight apu can stand still and hammer you while holy heal shrugs the dmg of him.
"Only with ppus its possible to fight 1vs3 2vs5, of course some "skilled" person will tell us couple storys how they owned 1vs5, but still, PPUs make op fights interesting"
1 vs 3 wouldnt be fair ppu + 2 runners... since ppus dotn fight alone/
When you've experienced the thrill of a op war where theres a good 10 or more runners on either side and like 1 or 2 may be ppu and the rest is a pure mix then come back and say we just chattin on about mb fights or u need ppus to make it interesting.
1vs3 means ppu with somone vs 3 ppl with ppu. and dont say that such fight can be possible without ppus, imagine 3 tanks against 1 ;)
1vs3 means ppu with somone vs 3 ppl with ppu. and dont say that such fight can be possible without ppus, imagine 3 tanks against 1 ;)
Seen plenty, seen single players take down 1/2 of the people i played when ppus werent a fad, not even a minor blip on the radar...its nothing new i dont need to imagine it i have seen it.
i have seen single players in different char types win against the odds, a great cs tank can dominate 3 tanks if they arent skilled or lesser skilled, same as say a slasher spy who can aim good and dodge well could dance and destroy 3 tanks if he was good enough...
if they are more skilled tanks then the 1 player will loose but thats odds for you... ppu dosent make it anymore possible it just turns into he who keeps the people buffed wins...and when i was a ppu with a apu we walked through 12/13 people in op wars .. so more numbers dosent mean shit to me skill is what counts
12-13 ppl? wow you cool man, youve seen so many fights of skilled ppl, you can support apu against 13 ppl. I just can say anything new to ya, you are too good for me...
Can they stagger cast.... tbh runnin dont matter when your stuck to the ground like a 10000 ton weight apu can stand still and hammer you while holy heal shrugs the dmg of him.
That's where the overpowered droner and the no-skill melee tank comes in. Of course, this requires coordination, planning and the availability of a broad range of players on your side. Of course, the "skilled" people don't consider tactics, thinking and team play as something useful.
And to everyone who challenges me to a duel because of what I said, my response is: I have friends, I'm a team player, if you want to fight me, get some friends and I'm sure we'll meet at an OP war some day. Friends might even make you happier and less bitter and the need to whine about everything might go away.
THE_TICK!!!!
06-07-05, 19:09
Can they stagger cast.... tbh runnin dont matter when your stuck to the ground like a 10000 ton weight apu can stand still and hammer you while holy heal shrugs the dmg of him.
. LOl d00d where you been, any apu standing still in an opfight is toast !! droner, spy slasher pe, tank , would all decemate him in seconds even with a ppu.
LOl d00d where you been, any apu standing still in an opfight is toast !! droner, spy slasher pe, tank , would all decemate him in seconds even with a ppu.
Bearing in mind we talkin parashock
coz a glued spy, pe, tank is gonna out damage holy lightning ye sure... were have you been?
Soon as a spy gets glued he dies to a apu, soon as a tank gets glued he dies, soon as a apu gets glued he normally died, only now apus dont need to worry about glue they just get on with it and since apus wont need gluing everyone else will get glued.
HL will out dmg all the other weps standing still since everyone is gonna be stood practically still after they all get shocked
its gonne be people stood still on either side some glued some casting shit and tbh i like the idea of apus standing still gives more impression of mind focus and for the power they have they should have some downfall since shit defense is cancelled out by a ppu
Jesterthegreat
06-07-05, 19:25
Seen plenty, seen single players take down 1/2 of the people i played when ppus werent a fad, not even a minor blip on the radar...its nothing new i dont need to imagine it i have seen it.
i have seen single players in different char types win against the odds, a great cs tank can dominate 3 tanks if they arent skilled or lesser skilled, same as say a slasher spy who can aim good and dodge well could dance and destroy 3 tanks if he was good enough...
if they are more skilled tanks then the 1 player will loose but thats odds for you... ppu dosent make it anymore possible it just turns into he who keeps the people buffed wins...and when i was a ppu with a apu we walked through 12/13 people in op wars .. so more numbers dosent mean shit to me skill is what counts
seen a PE drop an entire op war team...
<3 Rabbi Fang...
:edit:
And to everyone who challenges me to a duel because of what I said, my response is: I have friends, I'm a team player, if you want to fight me, get some friends and I'm sure we'll meet at an OP war some day. Friends might even make you happier and less bitter and the need to whine about everything might go away.
"i cant fight alone... i need my gang!"
I've used a pistol pe (no drugs or pa) with a judge to take on about 10 people at once... they had 2-3 PPUs as well. I didn't kill them all, but I kept them standing still and not advancing on the OP for about 5 min by myself until the rest of my team GR'd in and charged.
PPUs aren't an "I win" button... instead they're a "I can't lose" button. The difference is small but there is a difference.
Jesterthegreat
06-07-05, 19:34
PPUs aren't an "I win" button... instead they're a "I can't lose" button.
an "its extremely unlikely that i will lose" button (vs a no ppu team / fighter)
they arent unbeatable... but that doesnt make them balanced before anyone jumps on this post :p
an "its extremely unlikely that i will lose" button (vs a no ppu team / fighter)
they arent unbeatable... but that doesnt make them balanced before anyone jumps on this post :p
Yeah that makes sense. This is fun holding 4 simultaneous and seperate conversations with you. :p
And to everyone who challenges me to a duel because of what I said, my response is: I have friends, I'm a team player, if you want to fight me, get some friends and I'm sure we'll meet at an OP war some day. Friends might even make you happier and less bitter and the need to whine about everything might go away.
rofl pathetic, exactly the problem with PPU's.. they make even you not die every 3 seconds....:lol:
but they are perfectly balanced :lol:
anyone who says they are pefectly balanced is just an idiot i'm sorry but theres really nothing more to say on the issue. they are not balanced. its true theres always a way to kill something but that doesnt make it balanced... why must people be selfish enough to defend something that makes them good but hurts everyone else that doesnt want to follow the now required 'choice' of being a monk. people say monks are supposed to be unbalanced... ii dont say monks are a no skill class anymore i just want them fixed to be in line with everyone else and not be the only class you need.
theres a lot of simple things like FN's suggestions that would greatly improve the game without making ppus/monks useless, more like balanced. how does giving monks the same reticle all the other classes (aside from melee/drones) have ruin the class? it might ruin it for you if you cant aim I suppose....
and para and melee shockers should be removed completly. although most melee tanks you meet shock you and still cant hit you....
Just to clarify a few things:
- Aiming Reticles have been applied to all single cast attack spells (i.e. APU Attack spells, Parashock, Damage Boost).
I had a Fully Capped Wyatt Earp in mind. Fast closing reticle, but at least there's a reticle. And with little to no recoil with a monk as someone stated, you don't have to completely re-aim once you move.
- Overall Monk Range has been decreased by 10%.
APUs need a range decrease only for the obvious fact that they outrange remote weapons and some rifles.
- Damage Cap for APU Modules has been reduced to 576% to still make them 'cappable' with the new MST changes.
Despite lowering the damage % cap from 648 to 576, I would still like an APU's max damage to stay at it's current level, just make it easier to hit due to the skill point change.
- All Parashock Modules no longer do any HP-removing damage.
No more TL3 Parashock PPU Killers - they'll have to resort to gimping with a low level rifle, pistol, or melee weapon.
- All Parashock Module PSI Pool Reqs have been increased by 50%. (i.e. Holy Paralysis goes from a PSI Pool Casting cost of 150 PSI to 225 PSI)
Isn't the average PPU pool between 250 and 300 PSI Pool? Upping this req would lead to a PPU rarely being able to para due to it being the equivalent of casting True Sight every 10 seconds. That on top of heals, damage boosts that now have reticles, and the usual buffs/primes, para would be a bitch to use at a spam level.
- A successfully resurrected player now receives 5% SI (similar to when a Droner loses a Drone)
So you've died. Yes. DEAD. You stand up and poof, you're perfectly fine? If you GR, your cells are ripped apart and thrown across the map. You get SI. Makes sense. If you die, you should get some sort of penalty. Don't tell me *dying* AND being brought back to life isn't traumatic to your body.
- Ressurection Time has been reduced by 10%
When they increased resurrection time, it's as if they were saying the problem was with the PPU, fix it there. But I don't think that's really the case - the PPU's role is to heal, buff, res, SUPPORT his friends/team. The problem is that when whoever he rezzes gets back up, it's as if they NEVER died in 5 seconds. A longer rez just makes it harder for the PPU to get the person up, but not any harder for the person who was unlucky/unskilled enough to die in the first place, to survive.
- TL 115 Parashock Halo has been added, Holy Neutral Immersion - Behaves like the Holy Paralysis does previous to this patch. Neutralisis also reduces turning speed. Note: Requires WOC INT+2.
*shrug* Nothing I can do about macro-ing bastards. My monks have been stuck at 95 INT for what, 2 years? I thought WOC INT+2 would be a bitch to reach.
- Spirit Mods are back! Hitting a player with a Spirit-Modded Silent Hunter will add a counter to their PSI Effects and shortly after, remove their shelter. (Similar to the MOSQUITO Drone Effect with Heals). Note: Modding a Silent Hunter with this mod will add the WOC DEX+2 Requirement.
WOC DEX 2 or 3 isn't exactly easy to attain. Making them items that are received by a quest that you can only start if you have the WOC req, that you can only run once... add the counting down effect... I seriously don't see how that is in any way, shape, or form, a "horrible idea".
Jesterthegreat
06-07-05, 22:46
just about the only one of your suggestions i was against FN was the mst = aim speed.
no class has 3 combat skills (they would all be combat skills as none of the 3 would be a req) in the same stat.
rofl pathetic, exactly the problem with PPU's.. they make even you not die every 3 seconds....:lol:
We had lots of fun fighting at Cycrow yesterday. Plenty of ppus on both sides. And instead of early ejaculation that you prefer, we were fighting for at least half an hour. I had a lot of fun with my friends, while someone was sitting alone in the dark in his parents house perfecting the antimonk avatar.
"i cant fight alone... i need my gang!"
Yep. And I'm a happy person, while you, oh skilled master, are a bitter loner.
erm... and what happens to my hybrid? if mst is introduced as a deciding factor and i can only just aford to spec minimum... apart from that i like ur ideas as always
Yep. And I'm a happy person, while you, oh skilled master, are a bitter loner.personal attacks > facts
APUs need a range decrease only for the obvious fact that they outrange remote weapons and some rifles.
Come on, no apu spell outranges a rifle. Possible the the little one shot "lazar" style rifles, but noone uses them O_o
Despite lowering the damage % cap from 648 to 576, I would still like an APU's max damage to stay at it's current level, just make it easier to hit due to the skill point change.
I thought by lowering the damage cap on a weapon, you lowered the actual damage a weapon could do. Like wasn't the APU cap increased from 300% odd back ages ago?
But I still agree with jester, about no class having to have all 3 skills affecting combat (not just a req) under one major skill.
personal attacks > facts
It was a fact, not a personal attack. The goal in playing Neocron is to have fun and be happy. So if I'm happy and someone else is not, I must be doing something more right than that person.
It was a fact, not a personal attack. The goal in playing Neocron is to have fun and be happy. So if I'm happy and someone else is not, I must be doing something more right than that person.
no you are abusing an unbalanced class to be better then you are.. of course being able to kill without ability is fun... just don't try to claim ppus as balanced.
and calling someone is a bitter loner is a personal attack.
ive said this before, but eventually we'll get ppus fixed and then people like you will have to fight on a level playing field with the rest of us who dont whore something just because its overpowered.
no you are abusing an unbalanced class to be better then you are.. of course being able to kill without ability is fun... just don't try to claim ppus as balanced.
and calling someone is a bitter loner is a personal attack.
ive said this before, but eventually we'll get ppus fixed and then people like you will have to fight on a level playing field with the rest of us who dont whore something just because its overpowered.
How do you know that I play a monk at all?
How do you know that I don't fight alone?
Have you ever fought me?
Do you even know the names of my chars?
Why are you speculating about me even though you don't know fact from your delusions?
Why are you stalking me?
Jesterthegreat
07-07-05, 08:42
How do you know that I don't fight alone?
because of moronic replies like this?
And to everyone who challenges me to a duel because of what I said, my response is: I have friends, I'm a team player, if you want to fight me, get some friends and I'm sure we'll meet at an OP war some day. Friends might even make you happier and less bitter and the need to whine about everything might go away.
THE_TICK!!!!
07-07-05, 08:49
no you are abusing an unbalanced class to be better then you are.. of course being able to kill without ability is fun... just don't try to claim ppus as balanced.
wow ppu's are massive killers let me tell ya...they be tossing out those most UBER ti chi swords :rolleyes:
wow ppu's are massive killers let me tell ya...they be tossing out those most UBER ti chi swords :rolleyes:
i wasnt talking about ppus, i was talking about people who fight with them like heggy. ive admitted the actual ppu may need some skill to keep a team alive, doesn't mean it's balanced.
How do you know that I play a monk at all?
How do you know that I don't fight alone?
Have you ever fought me?
Do you even know the names of my chars?
Why are you speculating about me even though you don't know fact from your delusions?
Why are you stalking me?
you said you wont fight alone. responding to obvious flamebait posts may be pointless but it isnt stalking
Dargeshaad
07-07-05, 09:54
How do you know that I play a monk at all?
How do you know that I don't fight alone?
Have you ever fought me?
Do you even know the names of my chars?
Why are you speculating about me even though you don't know fact from your delusions?
Why are you stalking me?
I know at least two of your chars, Hegemon a spy and Hegon a melee tank both in the clan :Empire:....so far I've got 6 screenies of your dead bodies
Ok, anti-monk fanatics, its time for a lesson in the likelihood of your thread being a success:
Official Monk Whinge Thread Circa 2003 (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=79636&page=1&pp=15)
Note how many pages.
Note how long ago.
Note how much has changed.
The things you are suggesting are not new, this is one of the most common threads in the history of Neocron. You will not get what you want. You MIGHT get one change, but I suspect the runcast nerf is it.
And don't get me started searching for Anti-Para threads, there's not enough room in this forum for it.
Keep making suggestions if it pleases you, but for those that say they aren't playing Neocron at the moment because of the Monks, I would go ahead and leave because it wont change to any great degree.
Original monk
07-07-05, 12:30
Note how many pages.
Note how long ago.
Note how much has changed.
Note how many people have left from that post :/
Note how many people have been banned from that post ...
Note the same names and arguements always returning in monkposts for the past years now o_O
Note how many people have left from that post :/
Note how many people have been banned from that post ...
Note the same names and arguements always returning in monkposts for the past years now o_O
because they're all valid and KK ignores them, its going to be the cause of even more people leaving as time goes on... KK did show they see the problem recently thats sort of new, so mabye they're thinking of doing something...
although more likely they'll just open a zoo or something instead to shut us up...
Jesterthegreat
07-07-05, 22:41
the avatar spreads to the french forum... oops :p (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=126643)
the avatar spreads to the french forum... oops :p (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=126643)
rofl nice one.. :angel:
Mechanicus
07-07-05, 23:54
a huge 3 people now :eek:
Original monk
08-07-05, 00:15
the avatar spreads to the french forum... oops :p (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=126643)
onow :( soon everyone will have the antimonk avaters and then and then :( KK will remove monks like in the days when everyone had antiparasigs and KK removed para :/
Lifewaster
08-07-05, 03:14
How about , just go about changing all ppus into a form of blessed hybrids..
ie: remove holy heal and s/d from game . (maybe reduce mc5 and ceres mob damage a bit to compensate)
Thus the only reason to go pure ppu will be for holy para and lvl 3 buffs , plus more mana and more tradeskill options...maybe add a new rare ressurect with faster cast time for them also.
Thus a pure ppu effect at fights would be limited to blessed heals and s/d
Ok, anti-monk fanatics, its time for a lesson in the likelihood of your thread being a success:
Official Monk Whinge Thread Circa 2003 (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=79636&page=1&pp=15)
Note how many pages.
Note how long ago.
Note how much has changed.
The things you are suggesting are not new, this is one of the most common threads in the history of Neocron. You will not get what you want. You MIGHT get one change, but I suspect the runcast nerf is it.
And don't get me started searching for Anti-Para threads, there's not enough room in this forum for it.
Keep making suggestions if it pleases you, but for those that say they aren't playing Neocron at the moment because of the Monks, I would go ahead and leave because it wont change to any great degree.
Firstly, this runspeed "nerf" is a thing KK shouldn't have touched at all, because it affects everyone and is even worse than getting para'ed. Maybe we need to adapt our playstyle, but the very idea itself is stupid IMO.
Secondly, as it seems Lupus is working on something which will shake the foundations of NC and probably has a big impact on the whole balancing. Patience is what we need here.
Thirdly, most of the ideas presented to "fix" the monks are not really well thought through and have many catches, which makes them good as ideas, but nothing more.
And my last point here: If monks get removed, remove all the PSI stuff with it. Let them suffer. Our breed, the tanks, will revenge us and will, once again, rule over the world! :angel:
Darkana is hot. ;)
So what's this big thing Lupus is plotting? :eek:
Secondly, as it seems Lupus is working on something which will shake the foundations of NC and probably has a big impact on the whole balancing.
which is kinda frightening...
Thirdly, most of the ideas presented to "fix" the monks are not really well thought through and have many catches
unfortunately, same goes to KK (runcast nerf...)
but i agree on one point - we have to wait :( there's nothing else we can do about, unfortunately. Well, we can bitch and whine in the meantime ;)
I don't believe that shaking the foundations of NC is what is needed, as we know that any change KK make to the game inevitably screws up for one or two patches. We only have to look at the current runspeed(edit-runcast) nerf which has turned into a general casting screw up.
Make small but progressive, reversable changes, and judge its effect on the balance and happiness of players.
I don't believe that shaking the foundations of NC is what is needed, as we know that any change KK make to the game inevitably screws up for one or two patches. We only have to look at the current runspeed nerf which has turned into a general casting screw up.
Make small but progressive, reversable changes, and judge its effect on the balance and happiness of players.
Weren't they trying to change runcasting, not runspeed? :confused:
yeah, sorry, typo. I'm still asleep.
Jesterthegreat
08-07-05, 13:32
threads with this many ideas are exactly why there should be a test server.
fuck ups like the runcasting changes are another reason why there should be a test server.
and it should be used by players (openly or invite only) who play the game. a dev saying "that's fine" is all well and good... but we know how the game has been... and the player made suggestions i have read have been far better than the KK made ones.
RogerRamjet
08-07-05, 14:08
Whilst we're on the subject of changing something, how about making MC5s no requirement again? Would make the game alot more varied.
Whilst we're on the subject of changing something, how about making MC5s no requirement again? Would make the game alot more varied.
OH YES PLEASE!!!
this is something i really want
Jesterthegreat
08-07-05, 19:44
Whilst we're on the subject of changing something, how about making MC5s no requirement again? Would make the game alot more varied.
would give allow for crazy setups, possibly overpower PE's too.
i know i would dump my targeting 3 for a DS for a better shelter.
would give allow for crazy setups, possibly overpower PE's too.
i know i would dump my targeting 3 for a DS for a better shelter.
I would hardly call that overpowering a pe :p
Jesterthegreat
09-07-05, 08:18
I would hardly call that overpowering a pe :p
i consider all classes (except monks) to be nicely balanced. adding something that alters that balance can never be good.
spies / PE's with better defences and less drugs, yet what do tanks gain?
Well that depends entirely on your setup. Most spies are fairly pushed for dex points as it is, if you want to lose even more of them so as to not take a drug, or for some more defence, then well it's a fair trade off.
Your's is just a special case cause your using a wyatt :rolleyes: If it was a anything rare and high tech then you'd be losing offense.
I'm still yet to make a better setup with say: SA, SF, Herc and DS then with something along the lines of: SF, Exp. Ballistic 3, Moveon, Proto.
Even if you were to replace the herc with a moveon, proto or something, it still would be too close to really notice a difference. And probably not even as good.
Tanks can get more variety, for say a pistol or rifle tank, maybe extra int to be able to drive a rhino or something.
i consider all classes (except monks) to be nicely balanced. adding something that alters that balance can never be good.
spies / PE's with better defences and less drugs, yet what do tanks gain?
riful tanks =]
ohhhh i could make a pirrty decent droner tank with a mc5 riggers dream
could use a dex 93 (94) rare and have 205 remote and 141 willpower, that should be more than needed
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5751/stupidposts1db.gif
THE_TICK!!!!
09-07-05, 15:54
yaknow i think roger is on to something, When i started playing this game. The one thing that i REALLY liked was the absence of rules. Now not RP rules but, You could make anything you wanted out of whatever char, It made the game funner in my eyes. Just for the fact that it really didn't matter what char you came across, you really had no idea what you where fighting till you started. I loved that
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