View Full Version : Is anything going to be done ?
I'm on about PPU's is there anything going to get done to balance this class a little so maybe some of us won't pull our hair out. Its f**king frustrating when where ever you go to fight theres a PPU, its the same crap and its really starting to get old. I mean come on sometimes its 5 vs 1 or 2 clearly we must be better than them if there PPU feels the need to chain parra shock on us. You know why they do it, its because its an instant win spell and I can't stand these people who hide behind there PPU's like cowards its got to stop. Also make the MB a non safezone again this is one of the most stupidest things done and now its pepper park 1 all over again.
enigma_b17
26-06-05, 23:44
or u could actually try going somewhere and not ganking n00bs......
I'm on about PPU's is there anything going to get done to balance this class a little so maybe some of us won't pull our hair out. Its f**king frustrating when where ever you go to fight theres a PPU, its the same crap and its really starting to get old. I mean come on sometimes its 5 vs 1 or 2 clearly we must be better than them if there PPU feels the need to chain parra shock on us. You know why they do it, its because its an instant win spell and I can't stand these people who hide behind there PPU's like cowards its got to stop. Also make the MB a non safezone again this is one of the most stupidest things done and now its pepper park 1 all over again.
This issue has been addressed time and time again, nothing can be done to the PPU's atm till other issues are solved. I've stated this numerous times, starting more and more threads about them won't help it go any faster..
enigma_b17
26-06-05, 23:48
dont suppose u can go into any detail as to what exactly you lot are plannin to do could ya? That might appease some ppl ;)
I dont see any problem with PPUs apart from Para. You can kill a PPU, but it takes some time. However, when they're in a combo with someone else, chances are you won't win 1 on 1, which makes sence.
Just remove para! It'll solve a lot of problems.
I dont see any problem with PPUs apart from Para. You can kill a PPU, but it takes some time. However, when they're in a combo with someone else, chances are you won't win 1 on 1, which makes sence.
Just remove para! It'll solve a lot of problems.
i concur
You know why they do it, its because its an instant win spell
Yup
I dont see any problem with PPUs apart from Para. You can kill a PPU, but it takes some time. However, when they're in a combo with someone else, chances are you won't win 1 on 1, which makes sence.
Just remove para! It'll solve a lot of problems.
Yup...
or u could actually try going somewhere and not ganking n00bs......
yeah i have killed a lot of SXR lately
ppus need a total nerf including para, of course the optimal solution would be remove monks completely but you know all those on the monk no skill bandwagon would quit/cry and we dont want to lose the already pitiful numbers on the server.
Mechanicus
27-06-05, 01:43
ppus are currently balanced and there is no problem with the duration or effect of para
erm may i point out
ppus are currently balanced and there is no problem with the duration or effect of para
__________________
PPU Solution:
give antipara drugs 3 uses each, remove drugflash and reduce para effect
make shelter/deflector selfcast only so only the sanctums will work on other players
:S u make no sence
HAHAHA
THat made me laugh :D:D:D:D
:rolleyes:
Mechanicus
27-06-05, 01:53
yeah i changed my oppinion on ppus recently after actually getting some time to play the game a little, the sig is being removed
Mechanicus
27-06-05, 02:03
in all seriousness though, while im not going to go into detail over why ppus arnt overpowered, i will comment on parashock:
remember back in nc1 when it literally did glue you to the ground, just after the freq/mana cost nerf?
when if you were shocked it took you like a whole minute to get from between the pp guards to the zoneline (zonewhoring ftw)?
well we whined long and hard enough then to get it nerfed, and it was reduced HUGELY, it didnt have nearly the same affect at it did before, it was still possible to fight with it on and while it made running away no longer an options runspeed wasnt that aweful with it on.
when i saw all the whining on the forums i figured it MUST have been effed up again and put back into its post freq nerf form, but after playing a little i found it was the post effect nerf para which really isnt that bad, its defo not certain death and its easy enough to pop an antishock drug and live, i have NO idea what all the fuss is about, other than maybe people are too lazy to carry antishocks :confused:
This issue has been addressed time and time again, nothing can be done to the PPU's atm till other issues are solved. I've stated this numerous times, starting more and more threads about them won't help it go any faster..
Are you a part-time forum mod Lupus? Or do people point out threads to you? Or do you just read the forums when you're bored, like the rest of us?
I carry 15 anti shocks and they help you escape but thats it, the PPU will only keep you parrad if you don't run and thats my POINT. My point is theres no point in trying to fight a PPU team 98% of the time its suicide and why should a totaly incompetent player. Be givin such an unfair advantage over a skiller player, so that they can then stand there and call you a noob etc.
Holy parra - helping bad pvpers win fights since 2002 :rolleyes:
yeah i changed my oppinion on ppus recently after actually getting some time to play the game a little, the sig is being removed
aka I now play a ppu, or I realized I suck and now only fight with one ?
without fail the people who like PPUs fall into one of those groups.. i dont care how much skill you think it takes to play a PPU, it lets shitty fighters stand there and shoot with no ability required. theres no way to think a class that can make a fighter INVINCIBLE and their opponent SLOW "perfectly fine and balanced"
really ppus just ruin fun, i like just today when we were fighting some procites was entertaining, some PPU shows up to help the procities and both sides kill the PPU now thats what should happen when a PPU shows up anywhere. lot of clans just like killing peoples fun... like when theres a balanced fight and suddenly one side brings in PPU's.. its just lame..
Its getting beyond a joke and eprodigy is right some PPU's will just go to piss people off, with out even supporting people they just stand there constantly parra shocking people. You wonder why these posts prop up all the time, its people's anger thats what it is
before i can get a mid level parashock off on em and start running backwards, then their damage will be pitiful, and with a blessed heal on even at close range its not gonna be too deadly
Says it all really "plz KK don't nerf parra i have found a use for it" :rolleyes:
in all seriousness though, while im not going to go into detail over why ppus arnt overpowered, i will comment on parashock:
remember back in nc1 when it literally did glue you to the ground, just after the freq/mana cost nerf?
when if you were shocked it took you like a whole minute to get from between the pp guards to the zoneline (zonewhoring ftw)?
well we whined long and hard enough then to get it nerfed, and it was reduced HUGELY, it didnt have nearly the same affect at it did before, it was still possible to fight with it on and while it made running away no longer an options runspeed wasnt that aweful with it on.
when i saw all the whining on the forums i figured it MUST have been effed up again and put back into its post freq nerf form, but after playing a little i found it was the post effect nerf para which really isnt that bad, its defo not certain death and its easy enough to pop an antishock drug and live, i have NO idea what all the fuss is about, other than maybe people are too lazy to carry antishocks :confused:
THey only boosted para in patch that was suposed to NERF it, rememebr it well as i was probably the only PPU back then that didnt carry para in his belt. The range/ROF NERF was WAY before the patch they increased the stickyness.
Scanner Darkly
27-06-05, 04:05
replace para with a "drug flash effect" equivalent to that after 2 drugs and lasting 5-10 seconds. Casting time same as HP, mana cost: 180-220.
problem solved...
Are you a part-time forum mod Lupus? Or do people point out threads to you? Or do you just read the forums when you're bored, like the rest of us?
I read the forums to keep tabs on any issues ingame, if I had to rely on bugreports alone 80% of the issues that are solved never would have been. A thread with a title of "Is anything going to be done?" usually attracts my attention. Just beacause threads aren't always replied in doesn't mean they arent read.
If you know what you're doing, Parashock really doesn't affect very much, but that's like...1% of the PvP Base. :p Other than that, if you Parashock someone, they are fucked because they lose their head.
If you know what you're doing, Parashock really doesn't affect very much,
it doesnt if the people who you're fighting suck and cant hit if the person stands still, otherwise being so slow cant not make you easier to hit.
but that's like...1% of the PvP Base. :p
sounds about right but i hope your not counting yourself in that
If you know what you're doing, Parashock really doesn't affect very much
Besides very nearly completely freezing you for at least 3-4 seconds (time for anti drugs to kick in, if you bother using them cause the PPU is just going to parashock you again). Allowing the APU the PPU is with to nail you 5 times with a HL. There goes 75% of your health at least.
Seriously -
Fuck PPUs
Fuck Parashock
Fuck Damage Boost
Fuck Noob Buffing
Fuck Overpowered Hybrids
Notice a trend? They all hurt the game. Notice another trend? They all originate from Monks. Monks have completely killed the Skilled PvP factor that this game used to have a very long time ago. A war of weak little jawas being kept alive by their walking stick sidekick mommy jawas with uber baby bottle heals is not what this game used to be about.
I remember a time when I used to be able to walk through Plaza 1 and see an equal number of PEs, Spies, Tanks, and Monks.
I remember how I used to be able to go into a cave team at CRP and not find a monk barreling the shit out of everything with his PPU butt-plug feeding him heals, everyone else in the back, desperate to at least get one shot off at a mob sometime through the run without killing themselves in the process from the barrels and having the PPU step over their corpse without rezzing them and head further in with his partner.
I remember how I used to be able to go to an OP War, and my biggest worry WASN'T parashock and a Holy Lightning to the head before I could reposition myself into another sniping position. Back then, I feared Cursed Souls. Not some bullshit insta-aim bolt of lightning that anyone could pick up and own hardcore with.
Those were the good days alright. KK, where have the good old days gone? I want my Neocron back. :(
Jesterthegreat
27-06-05, 09:07
-snip-
Those were the good days alright. KK, where have the good old days gone? I want my Neocron back. :(
roger that...
-snip-
I remember a time when I used to be able to walk through Plaza 1 and see an equal number of PEs, Spies, Tanks, and Monks.
-snip-
Those were the good days alright. KK, where have the good old days gone? I want my Neocron back. :(
A fucking MEN,
and i was one of those very few APU's back then (pluto), and i tell ya, i was more scared of a PE on his own than a tank with a PPU strapped to him and 9/10 id be duking it out with shadowdancer around the side of simmons with no PPU in sight...
bring back tank'o'cron, cos monk'o'cron is wank
Asurmen Spec Op
27-06-05, 11:07
Aye, Tank-o-cron would be lovly.
Fortunatly my NC1 clan, what little pvp we did, was a blanace, infact we had more PEs... maybe 1 monk ever came.
I wouldnt care if I saw 10+tanks at a op with 5 ppus.
Ive owned a tank/ppu combo twice when I was doing the TG quest.
Tanks still take some skill with their butt buddies.
I want my Neocron back
I want my PP1 with PEs tanks spys
I want my fucking friends back
I want my fights to involve skill
Im going to say this, I love KK, they have made a game, even though buggy, has kept my love, mind, and money for almost two years.
However, the respect, love, and money I give KK also alows me to say this:
KK, the large majority of the playerbase(that ive seen) despsises PPUs, and most of them also APUs
KK, I wont go through and make a two page post to get to this point
Fuck monks
enigma_b17
27-06-05, 11:45
Aye, Tank-o-cron would be lovly.
Fortunatly my NC1 clan, what little pvp we did, was a blanace, infact we had more PEs... maybe 1 monk ever came.
I wouldnt care if I saw 10+tanks at a op with 5 ppus.
Ive owned a tank/ppu combo twice when I was doing the TG quest.
Tanks still take some skill with their butt buddies.
I want my Neocron back
I want my PP1 with PEs tanks spys
I want my fucking friends back
I want my fights to involve skill
Im going to say this, I love KK, they have made a game, even though buggy, has kept my love, mind, and money for almost two years.
However, the respect, love, and money I give KK also alows me to say this:
KK, the large majority of the playerbase(that ive seen) despsises PPUs, and most of them also APUs
KK, I wont go through and make a two page post to get to this point
Fuck monks
actually the large majority of the playerbase despises parashock, not ppus.
actually the large majority of the playerbase despises parashock, not ppus.
Yeah, that is the major problem. IMO a couple of combat players should be able to kill a combat player backed by a PPU, the parashock makes this 20x harder.
Asurmen Spec Op
27-06-05, 12:01
actually the large majority of the playerbase despises parashock, not ppus. ssh stop runing my little fantasy in my mind
Original monk
27-06-05, 12:12
for 1 patch .. yust for 1 patch
they should make ALL para (every spell, shocker, rifle, pistol) mob only ...
yust so we can see how the game will evolve witouth para ... in all time i played neocron i never seen it witouth para ... it got nerfed yeah ... the pistols and rifles got nerfed ... parabarrel got removed ... the turnspeed and speed when you got para'ed got nerfed ... but the game never been witouth para ...
make it mob only ... for 1 patch .. so we can see if its an improvement or not ...
para is better then in the early days (glued to the ground .. unable to walk or turn) but its still an annoying (or deadly) spell ..
every fight i fought this year (2005) ended the same: a parashocking/DBing ppu up my ass with a) a HLapu or b) a POBtank
im sure ppu's will adapt, im not sure how speedbased chars will evolve
Mechanicus
27-06-05, 12:16
aka I now play a ppu, or I realized I suck and now only fight with one ?
wrong in both cases
Its getting beyond a joke and eprodigy is right some PPU's will just go to piss people off, with out even supporting people they just stand there constantly parra shocking people. You wonder why these posts prop up all the time, its people's anger thats what it is
Says it all really "plz KK don't nerf parra i have found a use for it" :rolleyes:
rofl i havnt even made that char yet, will take me a long ass time to get a monk capped so i can use a mid level para which slows you down like 20% of what shooting someones legs or melee paraing them does, your probally the dumbest person ive ever seen post
basically, you all whine because your too lazy to adapt, and im not even going to comment on the fast that lil t thinks he should be able to kill an apu/ppu combo on his pe:lol:
basically, you all whine because your too lazy to adapt, and im not even going to comment on the fast that lil t thinks he should be able to kill an apu/ppu combo on his pe:lol:
And if there wasnt para, this may be possible, given that a PE has more opportunity to run out of range of the APUs attack. The fight would be longer at least. As much as para makes you do it, it's not like each fight involves standing still facing each other and off loading your ammuniton/spells.
edit: The thing with para is after everyone moaned at KK about freezer weapons ruining pvp, they nerfed freezing so much that it was only as effective as before with the ppu spell. I think it was around the same time the hybrid nerf came in and all monks were given a point release. Now there are heaps loads more pure PPUs, the freezer problem of NC1 is back and is almost as bad as it was then.
Original monk
27-06-05, 12:34
I think it was around the same time the hybrid nerf came in and all monks were given a point release.
i remember we got a pointrealease once yeah, but it surely wasnt on my monk after the hybridnerf lol (remember 2 days of sitting at medicare after the hybridnerf) :/
Freezer problem comes from Gaya Glove partly, since so much mana is now here (same with Antibuff being used more). Don't forget though that an awful lot of tanks use shockers too, so be careful not to relate all para problems to monks.
Monk problem comes because people understand the game rules more and more over time compared to early Neocron 1, and realise the best combination of characters to win is monks.
Making the anti shocker drugs stackable and cheaper would imo be a good start to combat this, as shocking -->drugging should be the classic attack-->counter. This is part of a person's combat skills during pvp.
Fuck Damage Boost
Db hurts the game ?
My lowtech PE likes it :) (if anything else, it helps when you have to kill a 120/120 with a Wyatt :D )
Don't forget though that an awful lot of tanks use shockers too, so be careful not to relate all para problems to monks.
I prefer a PPU than a MC tank with shocker.
Dargeshaad
27-06-05, 12:39
i remember we got a pointrealease once yeah, but it surely wasnt on my monk after the hybridnerf lol (remember 2 days of sitting at medicare after the hybridnerf) :/
There was a hybrid nerf prior to that, when they introduced the 30% penality. You're probably thinking of when they increased the ppu/apu reqs.
Or else I'm mistaken... :)
There was a hybrid nerf prior to that, when they introduced the 30% penality. You're probably thinking of when they increased the ppu/apu reqs.
Or else I'm mistaken... :)
That long ago is all a blur :)
Mechanicus
27-06-05, 13:47
it 30% nerf (http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=353) didnt have a point release, its was the psi use/psi power edit and the apu damage cap increase that got the release (http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=233 & http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=284)
Remove Little Terror, just for one patch. I never seen Neocron without him, cmon we can at least try it !
Jesterthegreat
27-06-05, 15:10
Remove Little Terror, just for one patch. I never seen Neocron without him, cmon we can at least try it !
wanna outheal my wyatt yet? :p
i have NO idea what all the fuss is about, other than maybe people are too lazy to carry antishocks :confused:
Thats right we are all to lazy to carry antishocks whats all the fuss about
:rolleyes:
Do we have to go through another explanation about quickbelts, cost of the drugs etc for the benefit of Mechanicus.
Jesterthegreat
27-06-05, 16:24
ya, log in
i am... theres a lack of you though
enigma_b17
27-06-05, 16:30
Thats right we are all to lazy to carry antishocks whats all the fuss about
:rolleyes:
Do we have to go through another explanation about quickbelts, cost of the drugs etc for the benefit of Mechanicus.
ave to agree with clobber there, antishock drugs are ridiculously atm i envisage 1 of 2 changes to parashock drugs (if parashock is to stay at current levels)
#1 Leave them as they are at the moment, but make it so that whomever takes it is either immune to para shock for the duration of the drug, or the effect is nerfed by an additional %age.
#2 Change them completely to act more like stamina boosters. They would be cheap, stackable and get rid of parashock instantly. Small Drugflash after uve taken about 10 in a row.
There should be a defence against everything in pvp, antishock drugs just arent doing the job (neither are db and antidote ones, same ideas apply).
Jesterthegreat
27-06-05, 16:36
ya, log in
30 mins i alt tabbed and did my stuff while occasionally askin for you in trade.
no times did you reply.
attempting to waste my time or actually decided not to show in case i was right?
Mechanicus
27-06-05, 16:38
this is how i cope, and i never seem to have an issue with money either just from like 30 mins of killing mobs before i go pvp
PE
wep
db
stealth
stam
stam
antishock
antishock
S
D
the rest of my buffs swiched from inven then swiched to heal afterwards
TANK
primary wep
secondary wep
stam
stam
antishock
antishock
D
br1
melee1
heal
PPU
has a spell to remove para
i dont play apu or spy but i assume spy would be very like PE and from screenshots ive seen most apus carrying like 6+ psi boosters, plenty of room for some antishocks there
really not that hard, if i run out of antishocks in a fight its easy enough to drag more out too, most ppus dont shock the same guy more than 2x as they get the message that hes got antishocks
Mechanicus
27-06-05, 16:39
i agree though that antishock drugs need a boost
enigma_b17
27-06-05, 16:41
u talkin about a ppu outhealing an earp?
Jesterthegreat
27-06-05, 16:59
u talkin about a ppu outhealing an earp?
no. talking about a ppu not outhealin an earp :p
but i showed you both that a sec ago ;)
enigma_b17
27-06-05, 17:03
yar, prefer to test it in mock combat conditions though. If you land every shot it can, but i would be interested to see it against a moving target :P
this is how i cope, and i never seem to have an issue with money either just from like 30 mins of killing mobs before i go pvp
So you go spend 30 mins killing mobs before you can pvp and you dont think its and issue? :lol: Luckily most of the time my chars have enough cash to pop to crest village to buy some before a op fight or a quick raid.
really not that hard, if i run out of antishocks in a fight its easy enough to drag more out too, most ppus dont shock the same guy more than 2x as they get the message that hes got antishocks
Its not that hard ? I find in op fights it easily done but PVP elsewhere ? Go raid crp and cycrow with your 2 anti shocks drugs in QB on your tank, on your own and see how long you can last and how easy enough it is to stop moving outside cycrow and put more anti shocks in qb with apu and ppu on your ass. Maybe more people using those magic macros than I thought :rolleyes:
As for ppu not shocking same guy more than twice :lol:
Jesterthegreat
27-06-05, 17:19
As for ppu not shocking same guy more than twice :lol:
yup. thats laughable. some ppu's do almost nothing but para... they know what it costs you each time, and know you will run out sooner or later
two years of god like ppus, don't expect any changes or if there is, it'll be something minor I bet
Mechanicus
27-06-05, 17:42
in any 2v1 the chances are your gonna die if everyone is at a roughly even skill level, especially on a tank who doesnt have tactical tools like stealth
and laugh all you like, my experiance is mainly from opp wars, if i go pking which isnt often i expect to die fast, i dunno wtf people get this idea that they should be able to beat apu/ppu/anything else combos outnumbered, then blame it on para when they cant
fact is clobber you would go down just as fast to 2 anything, whether their pes, spys, tanks etc etc
Dargeshaad
27-06-05, 17:51
in any 2v1 the chances are your gonna die if everyone is at a roughly even skill level, especially on a tank who doesnt have tactical tools like stealth
and laugh all you like, my experiance is mainly from opp wars, if i go pking which isnt often i expect to die fast, i dunno wtf people get this idea that they should be able to beat apu/ppu/anything else combos outnumbered, then blame it on para when they cant
fact is clobber you would go down just as fast to 2 anything, whether their pes, spys, tanks etc etc
Problem is most skilled pvp'ers can usually take down any 2 pe/tank/spy/apu, but once you put the ppu into the equation you're down to 0% chance of winning
Mechanicus
27-06-05, 17:54
unless they have antishocks
if a ppu paras you more than 2-3 times in a row hes sure as hell not paying much attention to whoever hes ppung for
Jesterthegreat
27-06-05, 18:18
unless they have antishocks
if a ppu paras you more than 2-3 times in a row hes sure as hell not paying much attention to whoever hes ppung for
if you can't handle clicking heal on someone every 10 secs, and paraing a single enemy... well... worry about yourself, not what others can do.
any PPU with some level of skill can heal and para. simple as.
Mechanicus
27-06-05, 18:24
then its 1 good player against 1 good player and one bad player, the good and bad player should win regardless of class
my example was because Dargeshaad commented on situations where the 2 are considerably worse than the 1
Jesterthegreat
27-06-05, 18:27
lets be honest, the ppu / apu can be waaaaaay less skilled than the single person, the ppu / apu have a much better chance of winning than they should.
:edit: i think this summed it up very well:
aka" I now play a ppu, or I realized I suck and now only fight with one"?
without fail the people who like PPUs fall into one of those groups..
Mechanicus
27-06-05, 18:30
im neither of those, i have a ppu but its lowbie, shitty equipment and in no condition to go near pvp, i havnt played the char for more than a few mins in a good while
i dunno wtf people get this idea that they should be able to beat apu/ppu/anything else combos outnumbered
Most dont think they should go round killing apu/ppu/anything else combos outnumbered. What people expect it to have at least a bit of a fight without been glued to the spot because the ppu's damage dealer cant aim.
if only people could stop thinking about themself, if ppu's were removed/nerfed yes you probabably would suck I know its too bad...
removing para is a start, but not nearly a solution to PPUs....
let's face the facts, a single person taking on a ppu / anybody the advantage goes to the ppu/whatever as long as the ppu hits a holy heal on his partner.
if you manage to kill both players then I'd have to say those are 2 horrible players especially the ppu.
let's face the facts, a single person taking on a ppu / anybody the advantage goes to the ppu/whatever as long as the ppu hits a holy heal on his partner.
if you manage to kill both players then I'd have to say those are 2 horrible players especially the ppu.
Wekk, yes, 2 players > 1. But the point is 2 people going up agaisnt a PPU/something team would probably lose as well. Its my opinion that a team with a PPU in should have a slight advantage, to make the PPU a worthwhile class. Just not the HUGE advanatage it gives at the moment.
Wekk, yes, 2 players > 1. But the point is 2 people going up agaisnt a PPU/something team would probably lose as well. Its my opinion that a team with a PPU in should have a slight advantage, to make the PPU a worthwhile class. Just not the HUGE advanatage it gives at the moment.
of course, that's what I was trying to say
ppus are way to god like capable.
Asurmen Spec Op
27-06-05, 22:17
All the ppus I ever talk to talk about how hard ppuing is.
But honestly, am I the only one who noticed that if ya get on a ppu for the first time(I did for a op fight) its really easy?
All the ppus I ever talk to talk about how hard ppuing is.
But honestly, am I the only one who noticed that if ya get on a ppu for the first time(I did for a op fight) its really easy?
they want you to believe it's hard, when really it's not the hardest thing in the game to do.
Asurmen Spec Op
27-06-05, 22:31
they want you to believe it's hard, when really it's not the hardest thing in the game to do. Just making sure, I highly doubt a PE whore like me would have any monking abilities.
they want you to believe it's hard, when really it's not the hardest thing in the game to do.
thats their excuse for being so overpowered
ppus are why i play 5 min a week, because every single person in the game fights with a ppu and its just not fun at all..
Asurmen Spec Op
27-06-05, 22:34
thats their excuse for being so overpowered I have to click on my enemy to hit him thats hard..
can I have a 1 hit kill weapon now
Just making sure, I highly doubt a PE whore like me would have any monking abilities.
if you can aim on a pe, you can aim on a monk... less targeting needed as a monk, click and point
someone please do step up and say why exactly being a ppu is so hard I'd like to hear the reason for that statement
Is it because it's the most depended upon class in this game? That you have to buff people for fights? Anyone with a brain and using a voice com program like vent or ts should be able to do fairly well as a ppu.
If buffing people is so hard then perhaps being a ppu (aka a support class) isn't the best thing for some ppus then. Plus with the use of voice coms it's not hard when you can hear your buff target give you a 'shelter is off now'.
Asurmen Spec Op
27-06-05, 22:57
But 40$poster, you have to SELECT the spell!
This is a art only people of the purest skill can perform
But 40$poster, you have to SELECT the spell!
This is a art only people of the purest skill can perform
This is true. Having not played a PPU I often have difficulty selecting my heal over my deflect when I need it most.
But 40$poser, you have to SELECT the spell!
This is a art only people of the purest skill can perform
OH MY I HAVE TO PRESS A BUTTON
wait any other class has to do so
and if you are willing mouses with wheels on them, you can scroll down without having to hit a button.
more and more there's post on the result of neglect to the issue that reakktor has created a monster from another monster. from overpowering hybrids to let's give them god like support classes who can turn anyone into a decent pvp. I don't see how anyone could say PPUs are perfectly fine.
if you can aim on a pe, you can aim on a monk... less targeting needed as a monk, click and point
That's not true, unfortunately. I've been a PE since NC1 retail came out... I can honestly say that I've gone at least even with the best PvPers of all classes on Pluto and beaten more than my fair share using liberators and pain easers, two of the hardest weapons in the game to aim with.
Now I play a monk primarily. Pain easers are infintely easier to aim with than holy lightning in most situations. In some situations with 1859712946 people in a small room or a drone in the sky, holy lightning is easier. But 1v1 or 2v2 or even 3v3, I'd hit way more often with a lowtech gun than a monk spell.
As you said PPUs claim it's hard to play a PPU justifying their overpowered class, PEs and Spies claim it's hard to play their classes to justify nerfing monks. If you gave monks a reticle and took out fizzling (it makes your next cast take longer), therefore making it work something like a gun, I'd hit 3x more with HL.
Is it because it's the most depended upon class in this game? That you have to buff people for fights? Anyone with a brain and using a voice com program like vent or ts should be able to do fairly well as a ppu.
If buffing people is so hard then perhaps being a ppu (aka a support class) isn't the best thing for some ppus then. Plus with the use of voice coms it's not hard when you can hear your buff target give you a 'shelter is off now'.
It's not hard, it's just like playing a damage class. But instead of targetting enemies you target friendlies. People who say it's harder or easier to play a PPU are just lying. But, it is more frustrating as everyone blames PPUs for everything. If they win, it's the uberness of their damage classes. If they lose, it's the PPU's fault. Being a PPU is a high-pressure situation. You're not only the most needed class, but the most hated and the most loved class. And you carry around the most expensive gear there is... if you die, you have a very good chance of losing expensive spells. Fortunately for the PPU, dying is rare.
more and more there's post on the result of neglect to the issue that reakktor has created a monster from another monster. from overpowering hybrids to let's give them god like support classes who can turn anyone into a decent pvp. I don't see how anyone could say PPUs are perfectly fine.
Technically, the overpowered hybrids of old could have done what PPUs do now; turn another class into a monster. But the thing is, why would they? They were monsters themselves, they could live through anything and kill anything... but sure they could've teamed up with an APU. It just would've been stupid because 2 hybrids were like 2 apus and 2 ppus. x.x
somethings wrong if you'd hit more with a weapon that has a targeting reticle but something that doesn't even have one. I guess for some people if they play a certain class alot then they might be better than another no doubt, but it fails to make sense how you can be better at hitting a target if you have a reticle when you can go with a spell that just requires a brief moment of having your mouse over the selected target.
as for the love/hate/blame game of ppus, I feel no sympathy for those of us who have ppus as they know what ppus are ment for and how crucial they are because of their abilities to sway a fight beyond belief. I've got a ppu myself, it's part of being a ppu when you lose/win and what not. Still shouldn't be an excuse for not fixing the issue that ppus are way to depended upon in pvp.
I do know what the hybrids of old could do, perhaps you missed the point that was this. Reakktor couldn't take the time to fix the issue of overpowered hybrids so they went with a quick fix, toss all these great defense spells to one setup type (ppu) and the offensive ones to another (apu). It was a quick fix which resulted in the fact that monks are still quite the only choice as far as pvp goes. Only difference now is you need 2 people to get the effect of a hybrid.
I think the biggest disappointment is the fact that ppus have been ignored by reakktor for god knows how long and there's no relief in sight with the fact that monks really weren't fixed in the first place, just seperated an old problem and hoped no one would care.
somethings wrong if you'd hit more with a weapon that has a targeting reticle but something that doesn't even have one. I guess for some people if they play a certain class alot then they might be better than another no doubt, but it fails to make sense how you can be better at hitting a target if you have a reticle when you can go with a spell that just requires a brief moment of having your mouse over the selected target.
It does make sense. It's a very subtle difference that makes a huge difference in the end. If you haven't played a PE using a liberator for hours every day for a year straight, I doubt you'd know what I'm talking about. If you have, it has to do with micro-adjustments to your aiming when you miss with a gun and trying to do that with holy lightning... it just doesn't work the same.
And I don't know about you, but the only difference I can see between a gun and a spell in terms of reticle closure is the first 1 second of the fight. After that it's pretty much the same, I don't get why everyone makes such a big deal. As I said, the only difference is small targets (long range included) and in confined quarters.
I do know what the hybrids of old could do, perhaps you missed the point that was this. Reakktor couldn't take the time to fix the issue of overpowered hybrids so they went with a quick fix, toss all these great defense spells to one setup type (ppu) and the offensive ones to another (apu). It was a quick fix which resulted in the fact that monks are still quite the only choice as far as pvp goes. Only difference now is you need 2 people to get the effect of a hybrid.
The "only" difference is a 50% nerf. That's huge any way you look at it. I do see a lot of spies and tanks running around in pvp... but in OP fights, monks win. PvP is not only op fights, but many people seem to think so. Today, a single rifle spy held up a group consisting of an APU, PPU, 2 PEs and a hybrid. You know how? Stealth and sniping. That is PvP as much as an OP fight is.
In team environments (not only in this game, but everywhere), the people that specialize excell. A team made up of specialists will do better than one in which everyone is decent at everything. This is because specialists can do what they do best and cover eachother's weaknesses. PPUs are the defensive/support specialists while APU are the damage specialists. If a Tank did the most damage in the game you'd see Tank/PPU teams instead, but they don't.
nerf just nerf!! no more arguing!
All the ppus I ever talk to talk about how hard ppuing is.
But honestly, am I the only one who noticed that if ya get on a ppu for the first time(I did for a op fight) its really easy?
Yes ppuing is actually somewhat difficult believe it or not.
Though it depends on the situation. I've mainly ppued when I'm possibly 1 ppu for 2-3 amount of people against 5+ ff (the daily cycrow raids, back in the day on no implant drops). Try doing that and telling me it's not more difficult then being one of the 2-3 attackers I was with.
And remove para.
If buffing people is so hard then perhaps being a ppu (aka a support class) isn't the best thing for some ppus then. Plus with the use of voice coms it's not hard when you can hear your buff target give you a 'shelter is off now'.
Unlike many people like to believe, you do have aim on monk.
If someone antibuffs one of the attackers your with. You had better get a shelter on them in the next 5 or so seconds, because otherwise they'll be dead.
I'm not saying ppuing is the most difficult thing in the world. But its definately one of the more difficult classes to play in this game. And it's nowhere near as easy as you make it out to be. Unless your a part of a clan that has enough ppu's that you can afford to stand there and para people all day long.
Jesterthegreat
28-06-05, 10:25
from my experiance of ppuing its very easy to keep yourself alive... but the more people with and against you... the harder it gets as you have more people to look after.
of course a good ppu makes more work for himself with anti para and anti db etc while a bad ppu will just sd / heal, thus making his job easier
On the subject of ppus, last night's op wars were an example of PPU's influence. The enemy had about 5 ppus per damage dealer, and despite us taking down their attackers about twice each they were all back up quite quickly!
Not really a complaint, it just means we need to adapt our tactics. But it does mean they had ppu's protecting other ppus, and also dedicated para/db ppus too. We were all laughing on Teamspeak at such a sight.
Dargeshaad
28-06-05, 11:25
it just means we need to adapt our tactics
Adapt how?
Bring more PPus yourself....it'll just end in a stalemate.
Bring more damage dealers? What's the point? If you don't have enough PPUs for those dmg dealers they'll most likely get killed.
Guess the only valid tactic would be to zerg...yay for NC and PPUs
PS: Remove PPUs
People will hopefully soon realise that bringing more ppu's isn't a solution nor even a necessity.
edit - don't remove ppu's, remove para.
Lifewaster
28-06-05, 16:05
I want tankocron back. But mostly I'd like to see a major reduction in monk PvP effectiveness against non-monks.
I think anti-buff HL spamming APUs are currently fine damage wise versus PPUs, in fact they are often needed to kill ppus, but as a result they are too strong versus non-ppus which leaves us with the monkocron situation.
So we need some way to increase defensibility for a non-ppu versus para/HL spam....
How about shelter belts ? similar to deflector belts with an inherent shelter effect, these could even the playing field for everyone who doesnt have a self-cast shelter , rendering significantly more survivability versus monkocron click-spam .....and bypassing the need to nerf/change monk damage/freq rates.
Shelter belts could also significantly reduce the need for and advantage of ppu zerging at fights because if everyone has access to a shelter the advantage of having multiple ppus will be reduced a lot.
I want tankocron back. But mostly I'd like to see a major reduction in monk PvP effectiveness against non-monks.
I think anti-buff HL spamming APUs are currently fine damage wise versus PPUs, in fact they are often needed to kill ppus, but as a result they are too strong versus non-ppus which leaves us with the monkocron situation.
So we need some way to increase defensibility for a non-ppu versus para/HL spam....
How about shelter belts ? similar to deflector belts with an inherent shelter effect, these could even the playing field for everyone who doesnt have a self-cast shelter , rendering significantly more survivability versus monkocron click-spam .....and bypassing the need to nerf/change monk damage/freq rates.
Shelter belts could also significantly reduce the need for and advantage of ppu zerging at fights because if everyone has access to a shelter the advantage of having multiple ppus will be reduced a lot.
Shelter belts... hm... int item. That means PEs, Spies, and Monks can use them. Monks seriously don't need shelter, an APU with a shelter belt would be lame. PEs can cast shelter already. Spies can too with 1 drug. Nope, wouldn't work unless you make it a Str item or something... lol.
Also, if you gave shelter belt to tanks they'd be seriously overpowered. Classes that can already use shelter wouldn't use them, so the wouldn't get buffed, but other classes would. Seriously, no shelter belt.
Original monk
28-06-05, 17:05
People will hopefully soon realise that bringing more ppu's isn't a solution nor even a necessity.
edit - don't remove ppu's, remove para.
i doubt people will realise, its gotten to far :/ everyone and he's mom plays a ppu lol ...
ppu's dont kill people ... people kill people :)
again as nullvoid said: stay of ppu's and start with removing para ... or make it mob only ... all kinda para ... so yeah including the shockers ... even its for 1 patch
People will hopefully soon realise that bringing more ppu's isn't a solution nor even a necessity.
edit - don't remove ppu's, remove para.
para doesnt fix ppus.. it just makes them less annoying/lame... they need a nerf , like their shelter drops when they foreign cast anything (now that would be good)
When they parrashock they should lose there buffs !!! :p
Asurmen Spec Op
29-06-05, 00:15
i doubt people will realise, its gotten to far :/ everyone and he's mom plays a ppu lol ...
ppu's dont kill people ... people kill people :)
awsome I am no one then!
I say, bring in Resist PSI and make it work against everything foreign cast (PPU and APU).
Psi resist, if it is ever brought in properly, should only reduce the effectiveness of:
-Parashock
-Dmg boost
-Psi attack 1&2
-Energy spells
-Soulcluster dmg
Perhaps then it might be worth speccing, and encourage apu's to use a bit more variety than HL spam.
Having said that, PE's and spies probably wouldn't use it since their psi skills are already pushed to maximize the spells they can use.
I say, bring in Resist PSI and make it work against everything foreign cast (PPU and APU).
been suggested...
Resist PSI (http://neocron.jafc.de/showpost.php?p=1015449&postcount=1)
Jesterthegreat
29-06-05, 16:24
resist psi will only weaken characters. every character. PE's / spies / tanks need what little psi points they have... and how many apu's / ppu's / hyb's are gonne go for less psi pool or less damage on spells for it, thus weakening them.
I say, bring in Resist PSI and make it work against everything foreign cast (PPU and APU).
Great for a tank that opwars and uses his PPU for buffs etc, but PE and spys won't spec it
Great for a tank that opwars and uses his PPU for buffs etc, but PE and spys won't spec it
no?
http://neocron.jafc.de/showpost.php?p=1015778&postcount=10
Jesterthegreat
29-06-05, 16:49
one person would use it then :rolleyes:
all this change would do is either:
1. not change anything as no one spec's it.
or
2. make everyone spec it, and thus rely more on ppu's for their defence because they have wasted all their own psi points.
one person would use it then :rolleyes:
all this change would do is either:
1. not change anything as no one spec's it.
or
2. make everyone spec it, and thus rely more on ppu's for their defence because they have wasted all their own psi points.
wow you must of read it very thoroughly, allow me to reiterate
tho to get it to work, it would have to resist the effects/duration of ALL FOREIGN spells (that are not of yur own casting)
so this would mean:
HEAL
PARASHOCK (WOOT)
SHIELDS/DEFLECTORS
BUFFS
DAMAGE BOOST...
Jesterthegreat
29-06-05, 17:14
wow you must of read it very thoroughly, allow me to reiterate
that doesnt change my point in the slightest.
either people dont spec it and remain as they are now, or people spec it and rely on ppu's more.
no matter if it adds to resistance to heals... a tank has gimpped his heal down to about 200% to get some resist psi. whats he gonna use - his 200% heal or a ppu's heal?
resistance to heal doesnt stop someone relying on a ppu...
Lifewaster
29-06-05, 19:39
Shelter belts... hm... int item. That means PEs, Spies, and Monks can use them. Monks seriously don't need shelter, an APU with a shelter belt would be lame. PEs can cast shelter already. Spies can too with 1 drug. Nope, wouldn't work unless you make it a Str item or something... lol.
Also, if you gave shelter belt to tanks they'd be seriously overpowered. Classes that can already use shelter wouldn't use them, so the wouldn't get buffed, but other classes would. Seriously, no shelter belt.
...
Thats EXACTLY the point, isnt it time Tanks became "Overpowered" instead of currently monks ?
Lets see, who exactly it would hurt ? Tanks cant really poke or hack , unlike monks, spie ,pes , neither can they stealth to escape unlike Spies and Pes.....
So "overpowered" tanks meets spy, poor spy has to stealth away , not exactly game breaking for the spy really ? Same goes for Pes.... and if overpowered tank meets ppu , the ppu outheals him and runs away .... so the only significant change will be tanks will be beating apus in 1v1 situations...which is probably a good thing if we want to reduce the monk over-population ????
So then we will end up with APUs lomming to ppu or hybrid cos they have become scared of tanks....less apus at op wars , too many ppus at op wars, less advantages to the ppu-zerg side due to everyone havign shelter anyway , and clans finding they have not enough damage due to the lack of apus, leading to hopefully half the monks rerolling to tanks again.....
Voila monk problem solved.
Jesterthegreat
29-06-05, 20:38
the answer isnt to change who is overpowered... its to balance it.
View these:
http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.php?p=1832490&postcount=14
http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.php?p=1832532&postcount=17
Take them into consideration when suggesting PPU changes...
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.