View Full Version : APU Range
Normally I'd search the old patch notes on nc.syn for the history on this but... yeah.
If I recall, APU attack range was already nerfed by 50% at one point in time. I have a capped APU myself, but since I've started playing my Droner more, I'm finding the APU's range to attack... for lack of a better word, insane. Anyone else notice this?
An APU can be nothing more than a spec on my screen as I'm thousands of meters in the air - and I cannot hit them - yet I get smacked around by Holy Lightning and Fire Apoc like I'm hovering next to them. Isn't that a bit excessive?
I've also been "sniped" by APUs plenty of times when they were so incredibly far, they practically outranged a Rifle Spy. I'm not sure what the range for the LOCAL list is, but I'd like to see APU attack range limited to something more towards that scope or a Pistol Spy's Range - the current range is still even a bit ridiculous.
But hey, I'm for anything that nerfs monks and promotes other classes ;)
enigma_b17
20-06-05, 20:42
o mother of holy god no....no more monk nerfs!!!
M'eh - remove monks for all I care :p APUs are fine as frail, uber damage dealers.
It's the 6 PPUs that show up when 2 Droners are PKing that bug me :rolleyes: Nerf and/or remove all the monks I say, lol
as soon as we get them to remove monks this wont be a problem, but i think apu should need to be very close to cast personally but it doesnt really matter they all have ppus anyway..
o mother of holy god no....no more monk nerfs!!!
gotta protect your overpowered class or you might need to get some skill :rolleyes:
enigma_b17
20-06-05, 20:56
actually, for ur information I play spies more then i play my monks....and on a second note apus are fine as they are, as are ppus.
With all int into psu, I get around 150m range with Holy lightning, which is nowhere near rifles. It's actually shorter range than a liberator at max. The main difference being reticle closure. Rifles and pistols have to aim, wait, then fire. If they lose lock they have to wait even more. APUs just look and shoot.
Let's leave sniping to snipers. I vote yes for APU range nerf. Us HackNet peeps got a Range nerf. :(
Let's leave sniping to snipers. I vote yes for APU range nerf. Us HackNet peeps got a Range nerf. :(
APUs don't snipe... x.x
Ok, I've seen people use a Ray of God, a "closecombat rifle" to snipe at people from the top of Soliko to the bottom. An APU can't come close to doing that. Again, it's about reticle closure and effective use of your range. APUs effectively use 100% of their max range, pistols effectively use maybe half of it... at max range they have virtually no chance of hitting and if they did they'd have to crouch and aim for a good 4 seconds. Same with rifles and cannons. Even at half their range, rifles can still hit further than APUs.
Edit: With 0 points in weaponlore and rifle combat, I get 50% more range on a Healing Light than I do with Holy Lightning and equal range on a Ray of God.
BloodLetting
20-06-05, 21:12
I agree no more monk nerfs. People just need to learn the tactics to defeat their enemy. sometimes that means not fighting at all but living to fight later.
PS write their name down so you can remember to fight them later. I always forget who I was trying to kill. (to many beers I gues)
With all int into psu, I get around 150m range with Holy lightning, which is nowhere near rifles. It's actually shorter range than a liberator at max. The main difference being reticle closure. Rifles and pistols have to aim, wait, then fire. If they lose lock they have to wait even more. APUs just look and shoot.
Funny considering the Liberator has only 2/3rds of the range of the Holy Lightning does. One thing you can't do is go by what the Weapons info says for range when trying to compare two different weapon types. Unfortunately they're not calculated the same in the info window.
I.E. The following weapons all have the same range regardless of what the info window tells you.
Liberator
Enhanced Plasma Rifle
Holy Shelter
Holy Energyball
Tangent Plasmawave
Jesterthegreat
20-06-05, 21:32
I.E. The following weapons all have the same range regardless of what the info window tells you.
Holy Shelter
Tangent Plasmawave
ayr you telling me that as far as i can effectively shoot a TPW, i can cast a shelter at the same range?
i really don't buy it.
Freaky Fryd
20-06-05, 21:33
I've been sniped by APUs before...
I'm in first-person trying to snipe, no one on my local list, I'm taking damage but there's no indication other than the health pool dropping, dead before I can do much of anything, death screen is 3rd person and I see an extra Holy Lightning hit me from an APU that I would need my scope to have a hope of hitting...
Freaky Fryd
20-06-05, 21:42
ayr you telling me that as far as i can effectively shoot a TPW, i can cast a shelter at the same range?
i really don't buy it.
There's a difference between "effectively" and "able to"
Lupus said they had the same range, he didn't say they could be used well at that range.
EDIT: ONOZ, I r teh double-posting noob 8| forgot I had just replied to this thread...ugh...I hate being so groggy when I wake up :rolleyes:
I.E. The following weapons all have the same range regardless of what the info window tells you.
Liberator
Enhanced Plasma Rifle
Holy Shelter
Holy Energyball
Tangent Plasmawave So your saying a Pistol: Libby has the same range as a Rifle: Enh Plas Rifle and a Canon:TPW???
Though pistols were supposed to be close in Rifles long range and canons in the middle, and also spell having the same range, somthing dosnt seem right
Jesterthegreat
20-06-05, 21:45
There's a difference between "effectively" and "able to"
Lupus said they had the same range, he didn't say they could be used well at that range.
EDIT: ONOZ, I r teh double-posting noob 8| forgot I had just replied to this thread...ugh...I hate being so groggy when I wake up :rolleyes:
the "able to" is even longer than the "effectively"
effectively = worth doing, able to = recticle isnt at its most popen state.
either way theres no way a holy shelt has the range of the effective, nor the total TPW range.
Well the one thing about spells you dont have to worry about reticule closing or waiting for is to close as with weapons, so the effective and able to range would be the same as it goes with spells or do i have it wrong??
Scanner Darkly
20-06-05, 22:19
I think that the EFFECTIVENESS of spells should decrease with range, a la Ray of God. Just an idea...
ayr you telling me that as far as i can effectively shoot a TPW, i can cast a shelter at the same range?
i really don't buy it.Basically, yes. Tho there are a few variables that may come into play here such as, I can't say with 100% certainty that the range when it comes to weapons that have to be aimed is the point where it starts to open up again, or if it's where it starts to close from being fully open. Which ever one it is, is also where the Holy Shelter should max out.
So your saying a Pistol: Libby has the same range as a Rifle: Enh Plas Rifle and a Canon:TPW???
Though pistols were supposed to be close in Rifles long range and canons in the middle, and also spell having the same range, somthing dosnt seem rightThe main problem is, that the Aim speed is linked to the range of the weapon, hence why Cannon's & Pistols are up near the lower rifles. This is a topic thats been covered before, and is on my list of issues with the combat system.
I think that the EFFECTIVENESS of spells should decrease with range, a la Ray of God. Just an idea...
This idea has SEX written all over it 8| Say in the range of the LOCAL list, 100% effectiveness? And out of that, exponentially decrease the damage, leaving you at 10-15% max damage at your max range...
What do you think of this idea Lupus?
What do you think of this idea Lupus?
If only I really had the power to say ok, this is whats going to happen. I don't have that power tho, so the most I can do is like with everything else, suggest it and see what comes out of it.
4 words
Bring Back Spirit Mods!
then monks shall ph3ar people once and for all!
4 words
Bring Back Spirit Mods!
then monks shall ph3ar people once and for all!
I'm all for that too :( All they had to do was add the freakin' add the ticking down effect like the Mosquito has and work on the delivery system.
Personally - I really, REALLY miss the days of spending hours traversing the upper zones looking for DoY Soldiers to get the Kami Chips. All they need is a 120/120 NPC that spawns in certain zones as infrequently or less that drops one mod.
Grrr....
Bring back Kami Chips!!! :D Let one Kami Soldier spawn per week in a random zone.
Bring back Spirit Mods!!! :D Let one 120/120 Spy NPC spawn per week in a random zone. Make the addition of the Spirit Mod increase the item degredation so that a Spirit Modded SH will wear out twice as fast as a normal one, requiring the need for another mod eventually.
*sigh*
I just think that in Range, the maximum range of spells should be like this:
(in ascending order, from greatest range to lowest)
Silent Hunter
TL90+ Rifles & Rocket Launchers
Pistol Rocket Launchers, TL0-89 Rifles, TL90+ Cannons (including Rare)
TL0-89 Cannons
TL90+ Pistols
TL0-89 Pistols, PPU Spells (minus Parashock)
Parashock Spells, Fire APU Spells
Non-Fire APU Spells
Melee Weapons
I also think that if a player exceeds that radius and a spell is being casted, it should fizzle (Line and Range of Sight for teh win!).
4 words
Bring Back Spirit Mods!
then monks shall ph3ar people once and for all!
If they made the SH like a real sniper rifle then I'm for this but as the man says range is linked to locking times I can't see it working. What I mean is I'd like to see the SH taking people down in 2 - 3 hits even PPU's but it should take a long time to lock other wise you will get PE's or rifle spys who think there shit hot. Striping PE's and PPU's shelters at point blank then ripping out the old healing light and owning you within seconds, thats what was happening in NC1
The following weapons all have the same range regardless of what the info window tells you.
Liberator
Enhanced Plasma Rifle ...
Tangent PlasmawaveI haven't played very much with APUs, but I have used all three of those weapons extensively, and chief, I'm having a very, very hard time wrapping my head around this. Because in my experience, the TPW has much, much longer effective range than the Libby, and the Libby perceptibly better effective range than the EPR.
I think it may have something to do with the combination of burst fire and recoil. I thought you, or somebody else, told me that all rounds in a burst go off of the aiming reticle of when the trigger was pulled, but that's not my experience. But anyway, a high rate of fire weapon like the Libby or a high recoil weapon like the EPR may start out giving you as good a target lock, but once you press the trigger and hold it down, the range at which you can count on any of your shots hitting really varies.
Anyway, that's all speculation. Here's my experience: if you take all three of those weapons out to some more-or-less flat place where large, slow mobs are common, like say H_09 or I_09, and back off to where you're at the longest range where the reticle on the Tangent Plasmawave will close down all the way, then left-click and hold on the target, nearly all of the shots will land. Do the same thing with a Liberator, and maybe half of the shots will land. Do the same thing with an Enhanced Plasma Rifle, and virtually none of the shots will land.
And yes, I tried it in both 1st person and 3rd, and by now I'm pretty good at compensating for recoil against a large stationary target.
The libby is really bad to aim, even if you can aim very well its a pain in the arse to hit people, with the hitboxes being so small now. The earp however seems to do more damage than the libby simply because its alot more likely to hit the target. Since lomming to lowtech rifle I'll never go back to using a libby unless they do something to it, the rifle it so much easyer to aim and does more damage. The thing I found with using the libby is you could hit the target pretty much dead on but if the target was running around and even if you had a full lock it sometimes did not hit at all. So your tracking another pistol PE and have a full lock so you think and start firing but it does not hit =/
Which raises the interesting point that if all five of those weapons have the same range, what's going to happen when five different people with all five weapons fire at a maximum-range target?
The guy using the Enhanced Plasma Rifle will be doing well to land one out of four shots. On a good day, the guy with the Liberator might land half his shots. Under normal circumstances, the guy with the Tangent Plasmawave will probably hit about 8 out of every 9 shots. The guy with the Holy Energy Ball will hit most of his shots against a stationary target, but against a moving target he's probably hosed. The guy with the Holy Shelter spell, on the other hand, and more importantly any bolt or lance or halo spell with equivalent range, will hit 100% of all shots.
You think maybe this is why I hardly ever see any soldiers running around, it's nothing but monk, monk, monk-o-cron?
You know, I actually think that some spells should require 'concentration time' where it's a delay before putting the recticle on the player then being able to cast it.
You know, I actually think that some spells should require 'concentration time' where it's a delay before putting the recticle on the player then being able to cast it.
Like Para!
Really wouldn't mind Para having the time.
i think back to what the thread was originally started for..
there was a nerf back in nc1 sometime.. that dreastically reduced the HL range I kno this because everyone wanted a holy energy halo at the same time lol! anyone else remember this? Well anyway. yeah they must have increased it again somewhere.. i dno.. i quit :) because u dont seen holy energy halos against mobs.. or pvp or anything.. unless they are hybrid :) if they can use the hl.. they will. I would like to see some variation in the apu weponary tbh :P hl = boring!
Funny considering the Liberator has only 2/3rds of the range of the Holy Lightning does. One thing you can't do is go by what the Weapons info says for range when trying to compare two different weapon types. Unfortunately they're not calculated the same in the info window.
I.E. The following weapons all have the same range regardless of what the info window tells you.
Liberator
Enhanced Plasma Rifle
Holy Shelter
Holy Energyball
Tangent Plasmawave
Well I used the info window to compare them. You know, it's called the information window, it's supposed to give information. Not just any information, but accurate information. A meter is a meter, all weapon ranges are measured in meters, shouldn't they be accurate to eachother at least? If you can't trust an information window, what CAN you trust? Ok Lupus, if you can't fix the info window and make it accurate, can you tell us one weapon that has accurate range in meters compared to the game world's meters? If you can tell us that we can start to figure out the actual ranges of weapons.
As a sidenote: If I play with two computers I see the lag between these two. This lag is not just a bit, it's partially funny to see how messed up the synching between these two machines already is. Roundtrip time (2x ping) is about 180 to 200 ms usually. This also means if you see an APU running towards you, they can shoot you already from "afar", because _they_ are in your range, it just doesn't show on your screen. Worst of all: You cannot even tell if a non-moving player is really at the spot you see her/him, at least not in 100% of the cases :(
Jesterthegreat
21-06-05, 09:04
i have sniped across almost my entire viewing distance with a TPW.
there is no way my lib could do that, and no way i could have sheltered that guy from that range on my PE.
Original monk
21-06-05, 09:32
Bring back Kami Chips!!! :D Let one Kami Soldier spawn per week in a random zone.
Bring back Spirit Mods!!! :D Let one 120/120 Spy NPC spawn per week in a random zone. Make the addition of the Spirit Mod increase the item degredation so that a Spirit Modded SH will wear out twice as fast as a normal one, requiring the need for another mod eventually.
leave kami's out, and if they bring em in they should give my 4 diffrent kami's back they took at the end of NC1 :(
spiritmod should get back in yeah ... to counter PPU's ... i still have a spirited SH left (only the name says spirit) with 1 free slot.. waiting for the day they get back in lol
sidenote: remove para and get back to the previous castanimations cough
Closed reticle (aka actual aiming) = high apu damage
Open reticle (aka point n click) = low apu damage
Thats all i want changed about apus. The range wouldnt be the problem then. Apus need to actually aim. Theres gonna be good ones and bad ones. Though i dunno about ppus. And apu dmg needs some tweaks prolly.
Closed reticle (aka actual aiming) = high apu damage
Open reticle (aka point n click) = low apu damage
Thats all i want changed about apus. The range wouldnt be the problem then. Apus need to actually aim. Theres gonna be good ones and bad ones. Though i dunno about ppus. And apu dmg needs some tweaks prolly.
yes... but... theres a problem with it: this game has become monk-o-cron because:
1) monks are easier to play (in combat), so this class is attractive to non-fps-players as well,
2) monks are the sorcerers-dragons-knights-princesses-part of NC, thus attracting the fantasy-geeks rather than us few cyberpunk-nerds.
so if we would nerf monks to a noticable extent, this would lead to a loss of players. we simply cant nerf monks without nerfing NC in general. maybe enhance other classes. this is truly delicate.
I just find it lame that we only have to cap Damage and Freq. Every other class has to cap three categories. Also not to mention that our combat rank is the highest in the game, whilst all other classes get crap for combat rank. My tank can finally use a Moon Striker, and he's only 56. Granted, he doesn't cap it, but when my APU could use HL @ 110 PSI, he didn't cap the HL, and got 68 rank.
Well, for huntinh high combat ranks are a bad thing. My APU hyrbid endedup on CR 96 the other day, and was getting no/reduce reward from half the chaos cave mobs.
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