how many le'd runners does it take...

[ZoVoS]

no its not a joke =]

how many le'd runners does it take to repair a rhyno while its being shot with a anti vhc rocket launche

its prolly classed as exploiting but couldnt u have a army of 6-7 le'd repaireres fixing a rhyno why it stands like a gun turret shotting ppl at a opp war

i duno, maby a le'd runner cant repair a rhyno when theres a person sitting in it

i was thinking cos u could recruit noobs to the game and get em to spec repair while there leveling to aid ur clan wars, cos a lvl /20 wouldnt be to usefull as a fighting person

[Jesterthegreat]

well... i treid repairing my rhino as an LE'd guy vs about 10 of a certain TG clan.

apparently they reported me for exploiting, but nothing happened.

though this is while i was leveling (and ironicly while they were whining "keep cycrow a leveling zone" at blood), not at an op war

[Freaky Fryd]

Repairing a rhino with an LE'd character while a non-LE'd character is involved in PvM = Allowed
Repairing a rhino with an LE'd character while a non-LE'd character is involved in PvP = Not-Allowed

If you do/have not engaged in PvP, then there's nothing they can do if you repair the rhino while they're firing at it.

If your Rhino fires at them, then stops while you repair, that's not allowed either. You need to leave the situation before you can repair it, if you've already fired at them.
(example: zone, and lose them by hiding somewhere)

Back when this issue became big in NC2, I had a lengthy chat with a GM about what is allowed and what isn't, and the above is what was explained to me.

So just don't fire at them, and you can repair all you want...

(BTW - with super-high repair, you might be able to do it with even one repairer)

[Njall]

Repairing a rhino with an LE'd character while a non-LE'd character is involved in PvM = Allowed
Repairing a rhino with an LE'd character while a non-LE'd character is involved in PvP = Not-Allowed
And if you're attacked by players while PvMing ? :p

[Jesterthegreat]

If you do/have not engaged in PvP, then there's nothing they can do if you repair the rhino while they're firing at it.


thats where this line comes into play. if your not fighting them its allowed (apparently) so lets hope your gunner isnt trigger happy

[Vae Victis]

so lets hope your gunner isnt trigger happyyou aint talking about me right? I KNOW you aint talking about me

[Redburn]

Repairing a rhino with an LE'd character while a non-LE'd character is involved in PvM = Allowed
Repairing a rhino with an LE'd character while a non-LE'd character is involved in PvP = Not-Allowed

If you do/have not engaged in PvP, then there's nothing they can do if you repair the rhino while they're firing at it.

If your Rhino fires at them, then stops while you repair, that's not allowed either. You need to leave the situation before you can repair it, if you've already fired at them.
(example: zone, and lose them by hiding somewhere)

Back when this issue became big in NC2, I had a lengthy chat with a GM about what is allowed and what isn't, and the above is what was explained to me.

So just don't fire at them, and you can repair all you want...

(BTW - with super-high repair, you might be able to do it with even one repairer)

So it's not allowed then, hmm ran into this not too long ago it was my melee tank and another rifle spy against a Rhino one player inside would gun then jump out and drive a short distance then repair but I was doing loads of damage there was a few LE'd in the area one was repair what damage I was doing while another would try to get between me and the Rhino. Got to the point where I would start hacking on his combat hovertec he was getting me so pissed off, I fianlly got the Rhino driver/gunner when he came up to repair.

[trigger hurt]

So it's not allowed then, hmm ran into this not too long ago it was my melee tank and another rifle spy against a Rhino one player inside would gun then jump out and drive a short distance then repair but I was doing loads of damage there was a few LE'd in the area one was repair what damage I was doing while another would try to get between me and the Rhino. Got to the point where I would start hacking on his combat hovertec he was getting me so pissed off, I fianlly got the Rhino driver/gunner when he came up to repair.

melee should never...ever...be able to destroy a rhino.

[Freaky Fryd]

And if you're attacked by players while PvMing ? :p

Apparently I wasn't clear enough... :confused: ;)

If you're attacked, it doesn't matter what you do until you attack back.
The LE'd repairer can repair all he wants, as long as your gunner hasn't/isn't firing back at them.

I made sure I asked that specifically when talking to the GM, because I have a guy with insanely high repair...
:D

[ZoVoS]

hey mun good dex exp init if 3 asshats atack ur rhyno and u just get out and rep it laughting at em

[Redburn]

melee should never...ever...be able to destroy a rhino.

PoB was doing good damage to the rhino, if it wasn't for the LE'd repairing it I would of made junk out of it. I had it down below half health.

[Crest]

How about , since PE's now use stealth ... PE gunner with stealth ... Rhino gets damaged badly, PE stealths out, driver back in ... instant RHINO GodMode. Drive off, repair ....

Other way
Which answers directly ... 2 LE 1 non LE..... Prob a Stealthing PE,...

PE shooting, with LE driver and repair person ....take to much damage, PE hops out and stealths .... rhino fixed, PE hops back in . I think both would be allowed in the game machanics, if you can repair with someone inside ....

[Scanner Darkly]

There was a huge flamewar about this just yesterday on Terra. The people who felt wronged (the guys who tried to kill the rhino as it was leveling its 2 occupants) seemed to think that anything other than the rhino driving away from them and hiding was an exploit. So even if they gunner ignored them after they shot it first, the repairer was not allowed to get out and rep.

That's not how it went down from what I heard, but that's what one of the attackers explained to me was how you should behave later in ooc.

Anyway thanks for clearing things up Fryd, what you say/the GM told you makes a hellova lot more (common) sense.

[Richard Blade]

So it's not allowed then, hmm ran into this not too long ago it was my melee tank and another rifle spy against a Rhino one player inside would gun then jump out and drive a short distance then repair but I was doing loads of damage there was a few LE'd in the area one was repair what damage I was doing while another would try to get between me and the Rhino. Got to the point where I would start hacking on his combat hovertec he was getting me so pissed off, I fianlly got the Rhino driver/gunner when he came up to repair.


I happened to ride up on this. At Gab.
What happened was you and someone else killed the driver/gunner. Then tried to blow up the rhino.
That LE user came up after and basically all that happened was you feeding him xp. The driver had already GR'd out. I think the most you could have done was get the rhino to 2% without the owner in the area. I didn't see any exploiting going on.

But, I think melee shouldn't be able to affect a Rhino. Rhino can't target a melee when they get in really tight. As is what happened when I asked the driver. That's why he jumped out of the gun position and tried to switch to driver. He couldn't aim at you, so he was gonna try and get some room.

[ZoVoS]

ohhh u can hit a meele tank at poiont black when there in ur rhyno atacking it =]

Hehehe sumbody thought u coudlnt a few days ago, i swiftly corrected them SHOO SHOO SHOO one cowardly running away meele tank

[Redburn]

I happened to ride up on this. At Gab.
What happened was you and someone else killed the driver/gunner. Then tried to blow up the rhino.
That LE user came up after and basically all that happened was you feeding him xp. The driver had already GR'd out. I think the most you could have done was get the rhino to 2% without the owner in the area. I didn't see any exploiting going on.

But, I think melee shouldn't be able to affect a Rhino. Rhino can't target a melee when they get in really tight. As is what happened when I asked the driver. That's why he jumped out of the gun position and tried to switch to driver. He couldn't aim at you, so he was gonna try and get some room.

No so I had killed the driver/gunner on the third time he jumped out to repair, before that the LE'd runner in the area was repairing as I attacked with the rhino trying to hit me. everytime I would turn my attention to the LE'd runner hovertec he would stop jump back on and the rhino driver would jump out move and repair. This went on for five minutes before I got the drop in the rhino driver, that's when you showed up

[Richard Blade]

Maybe you are thinking of another time.

The driver was the gunner, and he was dead right after someone opened trade with him as he was switching seats to try and get away.
He was on com's with me and was regretting not disabling trade.
He never repaired while you were attacking the Rhino. The LE users were hunting firemobs at the time. I rolled in from over there too.

The LE'd person didn't start repairing it until after the guy died.
So, you either are mistaken, or you assaulted someone elses vehicle at a different time.

[Redburn]

Sounds like a different time and event altogether, seeing that my screen shots of the event are corrupted I can't check

[Dr Strange]

how the fuck is an LE'd guy, repairing something that's underattack, an exploit?

This basically says LE'd people cannot interact with non LE'd people. If it's "cheap" cause you can't kill them, and deemed an exploit, then LE'd guys leveling along side Non-LE'd should be as well.

Why? theres various ways to "exploit" an LE, hell aggro all the mobs and just hide, the non-LE's could get pissed but they can't kill you (mobs might though). And so on and so forth.

This would kill off the main way to level a damn tradeskiller, thats just what we want; force tradeskillers to remove their LE in order to level, so they can tradeskill effectively.

[Scanner Darkly]

I think it has already been stated, that it's all to do with intent.

If someone brings a non LEd gunner rhino to an op fight and gets an LEd repper - we all know they're cruising for some ban-hammer action.

If however someone is leveling and is attacked they should have the right to defend their rhino...

At least that's the way I interpret the rules...

[Redburn]

Another problem that I have run across is having a LE'd drive and a non-LE'd gun a Rhino......You can't do a dam thing to stop being attacked, the gunner is protected by the Rhino's armor which is being driven by a LE'd inwhich you can't attack or do damage to. Watched this unfold at CRP on my LE'd APU while leveling.

[Redburn]

how the fuck is an LE'd guy, repairing something that's underattack, an exploit?

This basically says LE'd people cannot interact with non LE'd people. If it's "cheap" cause you can't kill them, and deemed an exploit, then LE'd guys leveling along side Non-LE'd should be as well.

Why? theres various ways to "exploit" an LE, hell aggro all the mobs and just hide, the non-LE's could get pissed but they can't kill you (mobs might though). And so on and so forth.

This would kill off the main way to level a damn tradeskiller, thats just what we want; force tradeskillers to remove their LE in order to level, so they can tradeskill effectively.

This was an out an out attack on a runner in a hunting zone, I was online with my BD Melee tank when there was a request for help by a FA Spy solo at Gabauim Mine hunting at seem that a Pro-city in a Rhino was trying to kill him (yes it's a war zone, but at the time a turse was in place for hunting and leveling and the GR was open to all) I ran in from TH, was teamed by the runner being attack and asked who was attacking (I did see a Rhino driving around the GR building at the time but he did not attack at that time) soon after being told the rhino was the attacker I was attacked and so defended myself there was other runners about and I even siad hi to them. The rifle/ spy attacked at range and I used PoB at melee range. The Rhino would break off and go a short distance then he would repair, he did this once on the hill near the center of the map and then again just down the hill from the GR, after that time one or two of the LE'd runners would start to repair the Rhino while it was trying to shoot me and the other would try and get between the rhino and my attacks. I never filed a compliant due to I got done what I started out to do kill the driver/gunner and no I did use the trade window prank.

[Ka0s^]

Why cant people see this?

How the fuck can using a runner that CANNOT be attacked to repair a Vehicle engaged in PvP be fair?

Are people so lame that if they get attacked in their precious rhino, they have to Exploit a flaw in the game mechanics in order to retain there "Omg I s0 own3d j00" ego?

Never mind it being an exploit its just godamn lame, the type of people using this are prolly the same type you find in any popular FPS wallhacking aimbotting etc.

Its up to KK to sort this, if you CHOOSE to be LE'd you are CHOOSING to be left out of PvP, you have no buisness Repairing a combat vehicle unless its Parked up and out of combat.

I disagree that it should even be allowed PvM, if your not LE'd and wanna fix up that rhino while BEING ABLE TO BE HIT, i have no issue with that, if you wanna wear your LE and do it, wheres the challenge in PvM?, plug away all day with an invincible rhino my that sounds like hard work.

Comeon all you guys who do this, try getting some skills, seriously Im prolly the Crappest tank/PE on terra, that hardly anyone knows, but id rather die and get all my imps knocked out, than prevent other runners that have decided to take a pop at a vehicle im travelling in, from being able to destroy it. Its an insult to those attacking you.

I reckon KK should code it that if your LEd and you do it, ALL channels get announced on that your doing it, you get insta -32SL and your faction symps hits zero. Oh and all your imps fall out. Maybe that will deter it from happening :)

/rant off

[Jake Cutter]

1) The Rhino driver was soloing with the Rhino in the zone. Give him some credit for driving and gunning solo.

2) He was CM.

3) He was not actively asking for the aid of LE'd runners.

4) The LE'd runners did not repair the vehicle while he was still alive.

5) He was not aware of any "truce"

Regards,
Jake Cutter

[Richard Blade]

Why cant people see this?

How the fuck can using a runner that CANNOT be attacked to repair a Vehicle engaged in PvP be fair?

Are people so lame that if they get attacked in their precious rhino, they have to Exploit a flaw in the game mechanics in order to retain there "Omg I s0 own3d j00" ego?

Never mind it being an exploit its just godamn lame, the type of people using this are prolly the same type you find in any popular FPS wallhacking aimbotting etc.

Its up to KK to sort this, if you CHOOSE to be LE'd you are CHOOSING to be left out of PvP, you have no buisness Repairing a combat vehicle unless its Parked up and out of combat.

I disagree that it should even be allowed PvM, if your not LE'd and wanna fix up that rhino while BEING ABLE TO BE HIT, i have no issue with that, if you wanna wear your LE and do it, wheres the challenge in PvM?, plug away all day with an invincible rhino my that sounds like hard work.

Comeon all you guys who do this, try getting some skills, seriously Im prolly the Crappest tank/PE on terra, that hardly anyone knows, but id rather die and get all my imps knocked out, than prevent other runners that have decided to take a pop at a vehicle im travelling in, from being able to destroy it. Its an insult to those attacking you.

I reckon KK should code it that if your LEd and you do it, ALL channels get announced on that your doing it, you get insta -32SL and your faction symps hits zero. Oh and all your imps fall out. Maybe that will deter it from happening :)

/rant off

Perhaps you would also agree to the reverse of this?
Over the last two years, various LE'd characters of mine have lost tons of vehicles to non-LE users. All I was doing was hunting. If I see an op fight, I leave. I usually leave if I see other people hunting in the area, so as not to screw up their spawns.
No matter how nice I am about it, people have still blown up my vehicles even though I couldn't fight back.
Perhaps they should face the same penalties you suggest.
It's for a different crime, but it is still a crime.

[Ka0s^]

I personally have never killed an LE'd runners vehicle that has been leaving a zone where theres combat. I agree yes, that the Issue is the LE and the mentality of people to exploit it.

I just dont see how its right that you can effectively make your vehicle undestroyable when levelling with non LE'd runners. No matter what the circumstance.

[Richard Blade]

I personally have never killed an LE'd runners vehicle that has been leaving a zone where theres combat. I agree yes, that the Issue is the LE and the mentality of people to exploit it.

I just dont see how its right that you can effectively make your vehicle undestroyable when levelling with non LE'd runners. No matter what the circumstance.

:) I do agree with you that a non-LE'd gunner should not be protected by an army of "unkillable" repairmen.

Here's a list of things I thought of that could help this problem if KK can find a way to put them in.

1. Make vehicles LE'd dependent on owner's LE status.
a. LE user(owner) in or out of vehicle, vehicle is only affected by PvM, no PvP.

2. Vehicles have their owner’s name, faction and LE status in their box tag.
a. LE status could be as simple as a Green target box or a Yellow one for non.
b. Name and Faction aren't as important and can be omitted, but would be nice.

3. Any non-LE'd person jumps in the gunners seat and it then becomes damageable.
a. If a non-LE'd user is in the gunners seat, chances are they are participating in PvP. (Same effect as now, vehicle with non-LE'd person becomes PvP affected.)
b. If the vehicle is driven by a non-LE but gunned by an LE, it can not affect PvP. It retains the LE status of the owner. In this case, the LE'd gunner or an LE'd passenger owns it.
c. The non-LE driver is still targetable and can be damaged in most vehicles. Since the gunner can't affect PvP, the drivers status doesn't hurt anything.

4. A LE'd vehicle with the non-LE'd status remains that way until despawned.
a. This is a measure of protecting PvP rights for others. The LE user can easily race to an ASG and despawn and respawn the vehicle to regain protected status.
b. Same "destruction" rules apply to LE'd vehicles with the Non-LE'd status that happens now. If it hasn't been used in X amount of time, it becomes invulnerable to damage that would destroy it. (I think its 3 minutes and about 2%)
c. Also despawning after 30 to 45 minutes as normal.

5. LE users caught blocking op entrances with LE'd vehicles (during an op fight) can be temp banned upon submission of pic showing User and LE'd status in the blocking position. This should be stated as an exploit and punished as applicable.
a. If the vehicle can be blown up, it wouldn't be an abuse situation. If it has LE status, then it is abuse.

6. A LE'd person cannot repair their vehicle as long as it has non-LE'd status.
a. A non-LE user can repair the vehicle. This prevents the LE user from abusing PvP and being able to fix the vehicle without penalty to him during a fight. The non-LE user is affected by enemy fire, so this is fair.
b. This won't affect PvM unless the gunner is non-LE'd. They can participate in PvP at that time.
c. If the driver or a passenger is non-LE'd, they are not affecting PvP, and the vehicle will retain LE'd status. (The gunner (LE'd) owns the vehicle, or whichever driver or passenger is LE'd owns it.)


Rules 3, 4, and 6 should help to prevent abuses of LE'd PvP attempts. Rule 5, up to KK to put the stomp down on abuse.

These "game mechanics" would prevent LE users from "exploiting" or in any way affecting PvP. It prevents a Non-LE from griefing LE users by blowing up their vehicle. If prevents LE's from repairing non'LE vehicles, thus keeping them from affecting PvP.


Edit: Just saw this.

Another problem that I have run across is having a LE'd drive and a non-LE'd gun a Rhino......You can't do a dam thing to stop being attacked, the gunner is protected by the Rhino's armor which is being driven by a LE'd inwhich you can't attack or do damage to. Watched this unfold at CRP on my LE'd APU while leveling.

Something fishy was going on, or lag or something. Currently, if a vehicle has a non'LE in it, it can be destroyed no matter how many LE users are in it. If the non'LE jumps out, I think it becomes protected, but not while he's in it.

[Ka0s^]

Thats a great idea and something that would suit all

Well thought out :)

[Redburn]

Something fishy was going on, or lag or something. Currently, if a vehicle has a non'LE in it, it can be destroyed no matter how many LE users are in it. If the non'LE jumps out, I think it becomes protected, but not while he's in it.


Your right there, been seeing alot of runners in the local box showing as being non-LE'd then within a minute or so or after moving out of local range then back into showing as being LE'd

[imper1um]

The LE aspect of a vehicle depends first on the gunner, and if the gunner isn't present: the driver. If the vehicle is open faced, it doesn't matter if the Gunner/Driver is LEd or not: Passengers can be attacked directly if they have no LE. So, if you have a Non-LE Gunner, the gunner can attack a non-LE player/vehicle, but the vehicle is NOT protected under the LE rules. Once the gunner gets out, however, since the gunner is not present, the LE rules will relate to the driver, and the vehicle will be LE protected, as long as the driver has an LE in.

[CMaster]

Nope Imperium - it soley based on whether there are arny non_LE runners in the vehicle. If there are some, or if the vehicle is comopleteley empty, then the vehicle is UN-LEd. the vehicle is only LEed if it has 100% LEed runners in.