View Full Version : How Neocron City Could Be Winning
I have a bad case of Engineer's Disease (http://www.livejournal.com/users/bradhicks/153109.html) -- I can't stand to see anything done badly. So even though it is not to my advantage to do so, I will tell you why, despite the various disadvantages they're under, Neocron City could easily push FF, R2K, and for that matter pretty much the whole Dome almost completely off the map. If I weren't so emotionally committed to the Tsunami Syndicate, this is what I would be doing, step by step.
Step One: Create Unity. Some diplomat who is trusted by both clans should negotiate a merger between UnforgiveN and Blood. Sure, some people will stay behind ... but I'd like to point out that 2/3 of Blood are people who came from other clans in other factions. If they were given a good reason, they'd move again. Why those two? Because CityAdmin enjoys the same advantage in an op fight that Twilight Guardian does: everybody on their side is allied with them, no neutrals. This means that they can lock their ops to friend only and yet everybody on their side gets to use the genrep, the underground, and the partial outpost bonus.
Step Two: Enforce Sanity. UnforgiveN, SynergyXR, and Soldierz (at a bare minimum, and possibly other clans) need to agree to a pact: if any pro-city character attacks another pro-city character, then all available online members of those three clans will show up to ruin their fun. Every clan will be given three chances to purge themselves of people who attack allies; any clan that refuses will be KOS to the three largest clans in Neocron City. This will produce an atmosphere where the whole City thinks of themselves as being on the same side, so when any pro-city outpost gets attacked, the whole City will show up, instead of half of them staying home because they don't get along with the clan that owns the op.
Step Three: Play to Your Strengths, not Your Weaknesses. Being a monk from the City sucks, and this game is Monk-o-cron. But no amount of crying can change the first half of that. Application of skill and tactics, on the other hand, can change the second half of that sentence. It boggles my mind that I ever see pro-City people in the Wastelands without combat vehicle support, considering your natural monopoly on combat vehicles. The three big clans need to recruit drivers and equip them with combat hovertecs for infantry support and rigger hunting, Rhinos for heavy offense, and heavy trikes to protect the Rhinos from enemy ground and air vehicles. Never forget: even the weaniest combat vehicle does more damage than a Liberator, and the operator is immune to parashock. And must I remind you that you have a near-monopoly on level 1 and 2 private eye power armor, perfect for the mid-level driver?
Step Four: Exert Power. At this point (and no sooner!), UnforgiveN should enlist the aid of SynergyXR and Soldierz to occupy, under UnforgiveN's banner, the following outposts: Simmons, Jeriko, Gravis, and Redrock. This will guarantee all six city factions access to a factory for item crafting and a mine for recycling. They should do everything in the coalition's power to carve up the other three southern factories between SynergyXR, Soldierz, and at least one clan from one of the other three allied factions. Allied control should expand as soon as possible to cover the remaining outposts in rows A through E. Because the merged UnforgiveN will have the most people online the most often, they will be the least vulnerable to surprise zergings, let alone ninja hacks, so they should probably control most of those ... but not so many that other factions feel left out. (Until very recently, perhaps even too late, this was FF's potentially fatal mistake.)
Step Five: Break the Dome's Forces. By this time, the City should have so many well trained outpost fighters who are so used to fighting together that everybody (except maybe FF) should be whining and crying "zerg" on the forums, and complaining that UnforgiveN has no leet skillz because they always show up with 30 people at an op fight. That's the good news. If you aren't hearing those complaints, it's because you're losing. Now you're ready for the hardest part of this. Capture Cycrow, and hold it against all comers. It is my opinion that if a CityAdmin clan captures and holds Cycrow for anywhere near a month, FF will fold in on itself. The roughly half of the clan that I think joined just so they could be on the winning side will quit the game, or defect to the pro-City side.
Step Six: Demoralize the Survivors and New Recruits. Once you get in the habit of bringing a couple of Rhinos to every fight, raiding the Dome becomes trivially easy, much easier than raiding Neocron City. Drive your assault teams to the Tsunami entrance in sector K_11 by Rhino. People inside the Rhino receive zero damage from Yorkbots, and the Rhino itself takes only minimal damage, even when being attacked by up to 8 of them at a time. (I know this for a fact. I tried it.)
Let them out at the foot of the ramp. If they have the good sense to run straight to the lift tubes without pausing and to keep running forward until they get off at the middle bridge, they are in like Flynn. Worst case, they will take maybe two hits from the guards at the bottom of the lift shaft before they reach safety, and if fully buffed by a PPU you can't survive two hits, you're too short to ride this ride. Not to mention the fact that if you let your heavy hitters go first, the guards will be busy shooting at them while your more fragile people just coast right by. From this point on, you may move freely around the sector. The apartment lifts, unlike the ones you're used to, are completely unguarded. The genrep is heavily guarded, stay out of that area. The entrance to Tsunami faction HQ is guarded, but the guards use plain-ammo assault rifles; with holy deflector and holy heal running on you, you won't even feel it.
Speaking of which, that's your next stop: TSHQ. It's the only unguarded genrep in the Dome. Any near-capped PPU can keep a whole team of people alive as they run through TSHQ to tag the genrep. From then on, you can genrep in, get over SI, have your PPU deflector and heal you, and move freely into the Dome.
You will have difficulty moving from sector to sector, because the tunnels that connect the sectors are massively heavily guarded. However, two stealth riggers, one on each side of the zone line, can tie up the entire guard contingent for as long as it takes your whole team to get by them. The only places inside the Dome that you'll have to avoid are the public genreps, the City Center mall in sector 6, and Voice of the Resistance HQ in sector 5; those are the only places other than the edges of zones that have DOY Guards. If you don't have a PPU with you, sector 8 will be problematic; the BDs have a lot more guards scattered around than everybody else does.
It is a long way from sector 7 to the triple-threat of sectors 1, 2, and 3. But memorize the route: 7 north to 10, follow the signs to City Center, southeast to sector 4 (the signs will lie and say northwest). Regroup there, and prepare to strike, because you are entering our equivalent of the Plaza, the only places you are likely to see large numbers of people. Across the zone line is Fallen Angels sector; from there, you can get to either of the other 2 points of the triangle, Twilight Guardian and Brotherhood of Crahn sectors. You are now successfully raiding the Dome's three most crowded neighborhoods.
If you prefer the direct approach, the entrance in K_14 is slightly better guarded, but dumps you straight into Twilight Guardian sector. It's as if the A_08 entrance dumped directly into Plaza sector 1. You can use the Rhinos to clear the entrance guards, there's line of sight to them from the ground. Once you get in it'll be tricky for your PPUs to keep the team alive long enough to reach the bridge, and you'll hit player character resistance almost immediately. On the other hand, if you've followed steps one through five first, that'll be a lot less resistance than if you tried it now.
Once all new anti-City players see upon arrival that the TG, CS, and FA can't even protect their own homes, let alone project power out into the Wastelands, how many new players will stay anti-City?
First Postscript: Once you have a large enough corps of Rhino drivers, getting a MOVE-ON chip becomes trivial. There should nearly always be one or more Rhino teams harvesting DOY bots in that area, since they're even better XP and loot than Warbots and spawn in larger numbers and more predictably. Have one of those teams pick you up at El Farid and drive you to Loba. If you're a tank, you can gun for one of the drivers and make mad XP on your way; even if you're not, any time after step three people should be friendly enough to you to let you leech XP that long. I can't believe that people are still sneaking into Loba Village on foot!
Second Postcript: Every time a pro-city PPU goes to Chaos Caves, the God of the Blinding Light kills another kitten. Until UnforgiveN controls Cycrow, stop telling your mid-level characters to level there. Send them to Point Red, instead. It's easier to get into and out of, the XP is at least as good, it's even easier for a PPU to keep teams alive since nothing down there does poison damage, and the loot is better. And when they come out to let the mobs repopulate, they can casually kill any anti-city runner dumb enough to buy level 2 implants there instead of at Escador, and/or trying to tag the genrep there on the way into Pepper Park, and/or running whatever epics send people to Point Red. Similarly, your riggers shouldn't be AOEing at El Farid then the Graves, they should be hunting in the old Pepper Park HQs -- higher average mob level, just as easy, no travel time.
Sounds like the perfect plan but there will always been one problem in the grand scheme of things, this would create as much up roar as it currently does :p Just from the other side and the balance of power will sway again over time, there has been time when the map has been completly green and im sure that will happen again it just deppends on which faction is most attractive and since TG is the most "i wanna be in that one" faction in Neocron their often on top.
Even though im a Fallen Angel i do hope to see the map become balanced or even making us the underdogs for a while it adds the thrill of sneaking about the wastes to get things done :)
Lets see if anything id done i guess...
Brad im usually amused by some of your posts, but this takes the biscuit you say it as if its an extremely easy and plausable plan to impliment. Simply its not these Ideals have been tried before and simply do not work.
Bugs Gunny
18-06-05, 11:40
Only one of thos bugged doy bot will blow up a rhino in a couple of aoe shots.
I know this as i drove a ppu with reveler past one and barely made it.
As for the other ideas, some will work once certain people stop being arrogant and putting their clan and then the city before their own egos.
We need peace amongst the clans first and this involves kicking some troublemakers first.
it all looks good in theory but we all knows that step one and two is simply impossible to achieve...
Its simply that step one doesn't work. Also, picking SXR seems an odd choice - compared to BLOOD they are a very small and low-activity (op wise) clan. But a few people have tried to create unity - I haven't seen it work yet. A for brining more vehicles to op fights - I've argued that as support, vehicles are very useful for a while (and the reveller gun can drop PPUs). And Point Red over chaos caves? Nah. No AoE, which is what makes the chaos caves so good. El Farid is the only real alternative - and catlock bay caves are quite reachable. For the non-aoe classes (not that op warring really has any need for them), swamp caves is good.
I think Point Red could do with an overhaul, would make sence and is easy to improve a relitivly unused dungeon than implament another from KKs point of view anyway, Catlock aswell.
I use catlcok - and the point red cave isnt that great - I think it has 4, maybe 5 mobs in. Sherman bay is better, but its a real trek to reach and its stil goddamn ouch for monks - tank hunting ground it is. Swamp caves are so much more attractive, becuase they are good hunting from /20 to /66. I just hate the places.
i keep saying about vhcs' because the fact of the matter is a ppu can use a combat hovertech making the drive invincable and the vhc dam hard to hit
i keep saying about vhcs' because the fact of the matter is a ppu can use a combat hovertech making the drive invincable and the vhc dam hard to hit
my hybreeds speccing to use one with no recycule now, im going to ops to make boosters, i have a vhc eye so all is good, and i can buff the heavy i need, mixed with a little heavy specced
SHIT i quoted not eddited
Its pretty pointless trying to fight FF right now. If you take their OP fairly (i.e. people defend and you get a fight), they'll just ninja it back. If you want to wipe them off the map, then organise something with Paradox and DarK, seeing as both clans are at war with FF. The only clan that is in league with them is R2K, but that can be expected as they helped with the FF zerg back at the start of NC2.
Its pretty pointless trying to fight FF right now. If you take their OP fairly (i.e. people defend and you get a fight), they'll just ninja it back. If you want to wipe them off the map, then organise something with Paradox and DarK, seeing as both clans are at war with FF. The only clan that is in league with them is R2K, but that can be expected as they helped with the FF zerg back at the start of NC2.
More like its gets ninjad in the 1st place and when we attack they all log and yell omg Ninja :lol:
Anyhow we have many good fights with pro clans i'e the ones who dont ninja we will show any pro clan same respect they show us don't even need to say what clans ninja and what clans fight for fun as I don't want to cause a flame war but they know who they are :)
Brad, the entire post seems pretty good and well presented. However, let me tell you that certain clans do not give a damn about the Neocron City or the RP element of the game. I'm clanless at the moment, as I can't get to find a clan half as decent as Sarah's (Purple) PHAZE.
Having my only non-LE operating under the CA flag since I started playing the game 2 years ago I was simply longing to get to have an OP available to my Constructor during the last couple of months. One of the clans you mentioned above got hold of two Factories in the South West part of the map and I simply Gr'ed there. Given that the clan is a CA one, I thought could have had the chance to use the much needed bonus.
I got nothing. These chaps had switched both their factories' bonuses off even to CA. I immediately cursed the moment I thanked God for enpowering that specific clan to get hold of the Factories. Upon chatting to a few members of that clan, it was made clear to me that they were afraid that other PRO city clans would take over their Factories and therefore switching off everything for everybody else but themselves.
Being none of my business how these guys manage their Ops is one thing, but hoping that they will co-operate with anybody else but their own ass is a totally different story.
Brad mate, they don't give a shit, so don't bother with plans and hopes to unify idiots. We have tried it as PHAZE, got most PROs unified, but at the end the few idiots spoiled it. In a dog-eats-dog environment where everybody have alts on both sides the whole "Let's work together" thingy is impossible. Sorry I can't get more specific regarding which clan I am referring to, but it is due to the "No-Nameandshame" regulations of the forum.
Cheers
Argie
PS My regards to the UnforgiveN clan
Toxen, Cmaster, Xylaz: Step one hasn't worked so far because people are going about it wrong. Every time anybody in the city decided there should be a unity drive, they respond by starting another 8-person clan. The last thing Neocron City needs is another 8-person clan. Somebody with a reputation for honest dealing and a knack for getting people to sit down and talk together needs to be negotiating more mergers, not founding more clans.
Bugs: We had a bunch of people, I guess it was something like a dozen, defect from Neocron City to the Tsunami Syndicate a few weeks back. I followed the instructions I gave here under "how to raid the Dome" to get them into TSHQ and keep them alive long enough to finish the NPC script. That involved taking multiple trips up from El Farid to the K_11 entrance. In the southwest corner of sector K_11, on the straight line route between El Farid and the Tsunami entrance, there is one of those aggravating "bot conventions," a swarm of about 8 yorkbots right at the zone line, including your least favorite bot. Worse, you're going uphill, so the Rhino slows down, and with pro-city passenger(s) they all opened up on the Rhino. And none of those times did any of my passengers take any damage, and none of those times did the Rhino lose more than 5% of its hit points. Yes, it does work. The Reveler is a heck of a nice vehicle, but it's just not the same.
Cmaster: I picked SXR for three reasons. First of all, they've got longevity and a history of going out there and actually fighting for ops. Secondly, they're from a faction that the City needs to have a lot of people online from, because they've got one of the more essential FSMs. Thirdly, the many hours they put into the nc.SXR website would help give them street cred in recruiting, especially if they had backing from a huge CA clan.
Tratos, Cmaster: 4 or 5 mobs? Hunh. Admittedly I haven't used it since NC1, but I remember Point Red as having two to three of those rocket launcher mobs per room. I guess they screwed up the mob spawn; I didn't know that. No, there are no "summoner mobs" in there, so you can't just AOE away and hit dozens of mobs at a time, although AOE is really handy for fighting in there. On the other hand, at least back when it was predictable mob placement, you could sweep the whole thing from the entrance to the boss mob in a matter of minutes, run back out, wait 30 seconds, and do it again. So it was continuous high-level XP and steady loot. Sounds like they need to fix it.
Morganth: If you had as big a clan as theirs, you couldn't be ninjaed. Small clans can't hold outposts against any kind of determined opposition, and that's always been true. That's why I say that this plan has to start with steps 1 and 2, in that order; the City is urinating upwind if they think that Yet Another Eight Person Clan (or any existing tiny clan) is going to be able to stand up to the Dome. For over two years now, I've known that any clan that uses "ninja" or "zerg" as a verb is admitting that they're losers who aren't capable of doing what it takes to actually capture and hold outposts, namely get big and learn to play well with others.
ArgieD: I feel your pain, bro, but what nobody is even trying to explain to me is why our solution to this one, namely all ganging up on the people who pull crap like that, wouldn't work down there? I think that we in the Dome have proven that it can work. No equipment difficulties or map design problems or lack of popular hunting areas can explain why a sufficiently large number of people in the Dome work together and a similar number of people down south don't.
More like its gets ninjad in the 1st place and when we attack they all log and yell omg Ninja :lol:
You keep telling yourself that.
Anyhow we have many good fights with pro clans i'e the ones who dont ninja we will show any pro clan same respect they show us don't even need to say what clans ninja and what clans fight for fun as I don't want to cause a flame war but they know who they are :)
PAIN didn't ninja till you did it to us. In that case, your way of showing respect was to zerg us with 1+ other DoY clan, then log off when you'd lost.
Its simply that step one doesn't work. Also, picking SXR seems an odd choice - compared to BLOOD they are a very small and low-activity (op wise) clan. But a few people have tried to create unity - I haven't seen it work yet. A for brining more vehicles to op fights - I've argued that as support, vehicles are very useful for a while (and the reveller gun can drop PPUs). And Point Red over chaos caves? Nah. No AoE, which is what makes the chaos caves so good. El Farid is the only real alternative - and catlock bay caves are quite reachable. For the non-aoe classes (not that op warring really has any need for them), swamp caves is good. As to regards to SXR, part of the problem is that they have members spread out in so many time zones it olny looks like they have low activity, they participate in lots of ops wars, ie: not starting them but helping other clan in those op wars, but there has been lot more inactivity, becouse of alot of the allied ganking that is and has been going on, explantion: everytime there are allied pkers running around SXR has been getting involved, but when those gankers keep on zone whoring, it takes the fun out of it and not even worth teh time and efford to even go out to take are of the allied pkers and loosing sl becouse of them.........
[Edit] Brad may i say that is a very good idea and observations, the premis has excellent points and is a great idea, but as some have already posted, egos and other obsticals are in the way, PRO has to come together that is all there is to it, otherwise FF and DOY will continue to dominate the map and allied pking will also continue.
The Question that also arrises, who in PRO is there that EVERYONe in PRO can trust to facilatate brining everyone together??
Well, yeah. I don't see anyone in pro city, probably not even in the game that is capable of doing what needs to be done here.
I just logged in to check my email and my op status, and while I was there I spent some time in Wireless RN's "Info > Clan" and "Stats > Faction" functions. Two observations:
Blood has 127 members as of this morning. UnforgiveN has 86. If those two merged that'd be a 213 member clan. During peak, such a clan would typically have 20 to 30 people online. Off peak, it would probably never drop below 5 or 6. A clan that size wouldn't have to lock its outposts.
Second observation is one I've made multiple times. Take a look at the attached partial screenshot, which shows the characters per faction stats for Terra from this morning. Ignore the No Factions. (In my experience, this screen only updates every couple of days or so, and so a lot of characters that are too new show up as No Faction even if they're factioned. The No Faction has to be treated as "unknown" for these purposes.) Also ignore the weird ones at the bottom which presumably belong to EGMs. Looking only at the 12 player factions, and totalling by alliance, I get 20,017 characters total. 12,886 of them, 64.38%, are pro-Reza. 5,907 of them, 29.51%, are anti-Reza. (The remaining 1,224, 6.11% are CM.) Going straight off of faction, the Twilight Guardians aren't even in the top five!
Now, I know from my own experience that those numbers include a lot of people who aren't playing the game any more. Of the 668 Tsunami characters on the server, I doubt that more than 30 of them have been played in the last week. So there are never going to be 12,886 pro-Reza characters at an op fight, or even 3,000 or so if you assume 4 characters per player. But still, the City outnumbers the Dome by more than two to one. Historically, the excuse that has been given was that half of those "City" characters are equipment mules, but it doesn't wash. For one thing, it's inconsistent with the City people's claims that the Dome has all the good equipment now. For another, if that were true, I'd expect Biotech, Tangent, and NEXT to all be bigger than CityAdmin, because they have more useful stuff in their FSMs, but instead CityAdmin is bigger than all three of them.
Argie was just telling me in Direct chat that I kicked off an interesting discussion in the city's Alliance chat channel. Good. Let the politics and diplomacy begin!
Well, yeah. I don't see anyone in pro city, probably not even in the game that is capable of doing what needs to be done here.This is another example of a point I keep making. In an FPS, the only skills you need are dodging and aiming, and a lot of people in this game think that they're the only skills worth respecting. But in an MMPORG, organization skills, political skills, and emotional skills are more important to success than dodging and aiming.
If you want to wipe them off the map, then organise something with Paradox and DarK, seeing as both clans are at war with FF
ahh i thought i saw paradox along side city the other day :)
and morg u dont hack our ops when we have more then 1 or 2 online else we would let u keep it
take drakkhan for instance u hacked it while we was alrdy fighting soldiers but we had tpeople online so u still have that fair enough
u take mal when we have 2 online or so so u no longer have it
but this aint FF vs pain(paradox ) thread
good plan for city but seeing as some city clans cant stand each other i think its gonna be hard to do
Bugs Gunny
18-06-05, 19:42
Whenever blood had an op, we kept it open to all pro city.
And as for a merger: there was an attempt to merge but somehow they decided not to.
Besides, if we merge the entire dome will start whining about that mergerclan being the new pro city FF.
Besides, if we merge the entire dome will start whining about that mergerclan being the new pro city FF.Only the lusers. Everybody I know on the Dome side wishes the City had an FF. We're getting tired of kicking a cripple, and we're getting tired of having nobody but each other to fight.
Argie, I agree with your comments. I personally can not understand why pro city clans are withdrawing GR access and bonuses from their ops to pro city runners. All the characters I've made since I joined NC2 a month or so ago have been pro city. In that time I have only seen bonus pop up on my screen once in the wastes with these characters. Yet whenever I've used the one character I've transferred from NC1 (a tsunami runner), practically all of the north zones in the wastes give me bonus and genrep rights. That alone makes playing a DoY much more enjoyable, and without a doubt helps a great deal towards DoY being the strongest faction for any runner. It seems like the clans on the pro side are fighting only for themselves and not for their city.
ahh i thought i saw paradox along side city the other day :)
and morg u dont hack our ops when we have more then 1 or 2 online else we would let u keep it
take drakkhan for instance u hacked it while we was alrdy fighting soldiers but we had tpeople online so u still have that fair enough
u take mal when we have 2 online or so so u no longer have it
but this aint FF vs pain(paradox ) thread
good plan for city but seeing as some city clans cant stand each other i think its gonna be hard to do
Reffering to me personally as taking your OPs is wrong, I hardly play anymore. You are a good one to talk about ninja'ing OPs, thats all you seemed able to do once PAIN had logged off.
Plus there are only 2 PAIN members in Paradox, I don't see why you have a fascination of generalising that Paradox are PAIN. PAIN is gone, the sooner you realise that the sooner you can stop jerking off about it.
EDIT:
Only the lusers. Everybody I know on the Dome side wishes the City had an FF. We're getting tired of kicking a cripple, and we're getting tired of having nobody but each other to fight.
I agree. Half of DoYs PvPing clans are at war with FF, we are used to fighting large numbers, so if pro-city made a zerg force (well, one thats all in the same clan at least) we probably wouldn't mind. If you fight with large numbers and don't ninja then its cool (which makes you different from FF).
Any Cliff's Notes on that post?
Really, there needs to be a few things done to get Pros ever to get back into power.
1. Stop arguing. Obviously, Anti wins because we don't, although we have lately.
2. Stop being cheap. This means you stop ninja hacking. Evil only begets evil.
3. Work on your bad skills. I'm not talking about individual skills. As it has been proved on time and time again, you guys work best together when you aren't together. If you guys are so tired of getting pwned, you need to actually learn how to work together, instead of bickering (see #1) about how you're not getting S/D and etc.
4. Figure out a stratagy on how you are going to accomplish a goal. We (being Paradox) fought U4N sometime (can't remember when) and you all zoned up one at a time, and got owned because there was no backup. Everyone was fighting for themselves.
5. Stop being dickwads and fight for your ops. Stop logging off and claiming a zerg. Have everyone you can and fight to the very last one. Paradox has the best time fighting pros to the very last, rather than having 10 people more than the enemy. You think we like ninja hacking? We absolutely hate it because it's cheap. The only reason we ever hack an op is because we want to fight someone. We now can fight FF all day because of the war, but owning FF all day until they bring 10 more people than we do gets extremely boring.
There that word is again ... "owning". That lil word is responsible for most of pros problems. One can easily tell who is from what server by his degree of "ownage" hehe. Also I have noticed "ownage" is more prevalent in certain nationalites, its quite interesting tbh :angel:
What Brad says is valid, and people saying "it cant happen" is also true but it comes down to that lil word.. the ownage word. I asked u guys (Paradox) yesterday "have u never lost a fight to a better group of players?" coz from they way u all talk .. its never happened. See, we in ff (unlike u) .. we know we fight well sometimes and we fight badly sometimes .. we dont win all our fights but we dont expect to. And because we are able to say to ourselves -- "dam we sucked at that fight" and not blame everyone else for our loss .. we can improve. We look to see what we did badly in a fight and change stuff, then we go back.
A gamer who believes he "pwns" everyone will never think he can do better, thats why when he loses, he gives up and logs off or worse, goes and gets some cheats. Im quite happy that u all have to believe u pwnnnnn us day an night (who knows where u get the evidence from but thats another story) coz it means u will never get anywhere. glhf ;)
BTW, we don't believe that we'll pwn you everytime. After all, if you bring 10 more people than us, then you have a 50/50 chance of winning, unlike the 0.3% chance of winning without able to zone.
It's kinda phunny that as soon as we get FF away from their precious UG, they get pwned so easily. (hint hint to pros) FF are so wierd. Paradox by ourselves raided Cycrow, and we got tired of UG whoring, so we decided to meet outside Cycrow at the fork in the road to decide what were going to do next, since FF don't like to be deprived of their precious UG. It ended up that FF zoned up, didn't see us, got organized and attacked us at the fork. We were partially ready since we just came from the Cycrow raid (we were 28 seconds from the front door). They had 3 more than us (I counted, I was on the mountain overlooking the whole fight, since I just logged in and I was up there). I spammed para (for some reason, I can hit para 95% of the time on an enemy, and the other 5% on dead air, but I hit an enemy with a heal 65% of the time, and 20% on myself :P, also, all our APUs had their own PPU) from the mountain, and Illmatic died pretty fast after he debuffed an APU.
That was the only death on the Paradox side. Since I was Paraspamming their PPUs (I didn't Para the APUs at all), their PPUs ran around like they had a mental retardation and spammed antipara on themselves, forgetting their APUs and Tanks. They had 2 more PPUs than attackers and a single person Paraing makes them run around like a bunch of bums after a rich guy throws out a bunch of money on the streets? Although FF owns almost all of the ops, I take pleasure in knowing that:
#1 - FF, with equal numbers, are easily owned
#2 - It requires 4 Pros higher, or 10 FF higher than our current numbers to take an entire team out of us, not including the times when we completely fucked up (I'm not denying that we get our share of fuck ups, we've really got beat for stupid reasons sometimes)
#3 - I can spam Para on PPUs and their PPUs will totally and utterly forget their assigned attacker.
For real, it's gotten to the point that I don't Para APUs any more. I sometimes will, when I'm firing at a PPU and miss, but I usually Parashock PPUs. It's hilarious.
Typical for imperium to turn a post about how pro should win into a post that flames everybody except is o-so-great self, and the lordly clan paradox...
The fact is there are a lot of egos in pro city, no obvioyus leader, and noone who everybody respects. The "pkers" don't respect anyone who is 'carebear', where carebear just means having some care about allied killing or some vauge interest in the plot of the game. The 'carebears' won't respect anyone who brags about their "skills" all the time.
Bugs Gunny
19-06-05, 12:34
I just laugh at the guy.. every time he posts.
how nc city could be winning ?
get some skilled clan (i remember at the beginning of nc1 there were 1 or 2 skilled clans in the city, and they whiped out every single doy clan ...) or get a clan with a huge size.
I just laugh at the guy.. every time he posts.
I just laugh...every time I see a Blood member at an Outpost war. Its like seeing a cripple turn up to a marathon, ultimately pointless.
Pro city is doing fine. The map would be more contested if the North East wasn't covered in Johnny Five's. Take those ops out of the equation and you will see that the map is quite varied.
Jesterthegreat
19-06-05, 13:59
the answe to a ppu is another ppu.
the answer to a ninja hack is another ninja hack.
the answer to a stupidly big clan is another stupidly big clan.
blah blah blah... maybe these things should be sorted at the source, not used as a countermeasure.
to quote the simpsons:
Kiros: It seems the earthlings won.
Kang: Did they? That board with a nail in it may have defeated us.But the humans won't stop there. They'll make bigger boards and bigger nails, and soon, they will make a board with a nail so big, it will destroy them all!
If pro city cant get a 10 - 15 person sized op force together .. that is sad and its definitely not a mega clan lol. Soldierz tho, regularly have those sort of numbers online and have good numbers at op fights.
Imperium/morganth .. perfect example of the type of ppl we dont need in doy.
Imperium/morganth .. perfect example of the type of ppl we dont need in doy.
ohhh bitchy :D
Jesterthegreat
19-06-05, 18:15
well zigzag... with an opinion like that i assume you are actually in FF so all your saying is "we are right everyone else is playing wrong"
Pro city is doing fine. The map would be more contested if the North East wasn't covered in Johnny Five's. Take those ops out of the equation and you will see that the map is quite varied.Don't kid yourself. You own those outposts because those of us up north are feeling sorry for you. In case you hadn't noticed, you lose them everytime any of our larger clans gets bored. Your side doesn't control the bottom 1/4 to 1/3 of the map because of your overpowering strength. You own them because we're pretty much all united in favor of giving you a breather, in hopes that you'll recover enough to give us more fights.
Jesterthegreat
19-06-05, 18:44
Don't kid yourself. You own those outposts because those of us up north are feeling sorry for you. In case you hadn't noticed, you lose them everytime any of our larger clans gets bored. Your side doesn't control the bottom 1/4 to 1/3 of the map because of your overpowering strength. You own them because we're pretty much all united in favor of giving you a breather, in hopes that you'll recover enough to give us more fights.
yeah yeah.
you > them.
as ever.
Don't kid yourself. You own those outposts because those of us up north are feeling sorry for you. In case you hadn't noticed, you lose them everytime any of our larger clans gets bored. Your side doesn't control the bottom 1/4 to 1/3 of the map because of your overpowering strength. You own them because we're pretty much all united in favor of giving you a breather, in hopes that you'll recover enough to give us more fights.
if you are bored why don't some of you come pro city, oh wait... that'd mean you might be on a losing side
Don't kid yourself. You own those outposts because those of us up north are feeling sorry for you. In case you hadn't noticed, you lose them everytime any of our larger clans gets bored. Your side doesn't control the bottom 1/4 to 1/3 of the map because of your overpowering strength. You own them because we're pretty much all united in favor of giving you a breather, in hopes that you'll recover enough to give us more fights.
and what about this tsunami clan who owns soliko (last time i saw) you telling me you guys are holding that yourselves...
[TgR]KILLER
19-06-05, 20:10
i laugh when i see you guys argue about shit that it aint worth being argued about :p
Jesterthegreat
19-06-05, 20:28
KILLER']i laugh when i see you guys argue about shit that it aint worth being argued about :p
i just egg them on... venom couldnt care less who zerged who, or who ninja'd what as we have more fun with general fighting than ops.
40$Poser: I actually thought about it. I even had two City Admin characters halfway leveled up, a couple of weeks ago. But my heart wasn't in it, for a reason very few of you will be able to understand. There are no longer any meaningful incentives to be a Tsunami, but for my own personal reasons I'm deeply committed to the Syndicate. I just don't have the heart to go elsewhere.
Jesterthegreat: Syncon, not Soliko, easy mistake to make. Yeah, we're sort of a charity case, too just like the mostly no longer existant Freelancers and their indefensible ops in the northwest corner. We will fight for it, and we have offers of assistance from R2K and FF if we need it. So with their help, we probably could hold it. And that's my point. If, say, some tiny little NEXT clan or whatever grabbed McPherson now, and FF attacked, they'd be rolled back in a heartbeat, if there even was anbody from that NEXT clan online to notice, nor could they count on help from any other pro-city clan. If, on the other hand, U4N were to attack Syncon in force, they'd crush us like a bug in the first wave ... but almost the whole friggin' Dome would show up to help us take it back. That's unity. You should try it some time.
I just logged in to check my email and my op status, and while I was there I spent some time in Wireless RN's "Info > Clan" and "Stats > Faction" functions. Two observations:
Blood has 127 members as of this morning. UnforgiveN has 86. If those two merged that'd be a 213 member clan. During peak, such a clan would typically have 20 to 30 people online. Off peak, it would probably never drop below 5 or 6. A clan that size wouldn't have to lock its outposts.
Second observation is one I've made multiple times. Take a look at the attached partial screenshot, which shows the characters per faction stats for Terra from this morning. Ignore the No Factions. (In my experience, this screen only updates every couple of days or so, and so a lot of characters that are too new show up as No Faction even if they're factioned. The No Faction has to be treated as "unknown" for these purposes.) Also ignore the weird ones at the bottom which presumably belong to EGMs. Looking only at the 12 player factions, and totalling by alliance, I get 20,017 characters total. 12,886 of them, 64.38%, are pro-Reza. 5,907 of them, 29.51%, are anti-Reza. (The remaining 1,224, 6.11% are CM.) Going straight off of faction, the Twilight Guardians aren't even in the top five!
Now, I know from my own experience that those numbers include a lot of people who aren't playing the game any more. Of the 668 Tsunami characters on the server, I doubt that more than 30 of them have been played in the last week. So there are never going to be 12,886 pro-Reza characters at an op fight, or even 3,000 or so if you assume 4 characters per player. But still, the City outnumbers the Dome by more than two to one. Historically, the excuse that has been given was that half of those "City" characters are equipment mules, but it doesn't wash. For one thing, it's inconsistent with the City people's claims that the Dome has all the good equipment now. For another, if that were true, I'd expect Biotech, Tangent, and NEXT to all be bigger than CityAdmin, because they have more useful stuff in their FSMs, but instead CityAdmin is bigger than all three of them.
Argie was just telling me in Direct chat that I kicked off an interesting discussion in the city's Alliance chat channel. Good. Let the politics and diplomacy begin!
This is another example of a point I keep making. In an FPS, the only skills you need are dodging and aiming, and a lot of people in this game think that they're the only skills worth respecting. But in an MMPORG, organization skills, political skills, and emotional skills are more important to success than dodging and aiming.
These figures have already been discussed at length in another topic and it was pritty much unaimously decided their pointless, for a start divide everything by 4 to take 4 slot out of the equation then you still have to account for multiple accounts tradeskillers epic kill alts, symp bitchs, basicly we can sit here and rip your figures apart and make them say anything we like making them totaly useless. So brad stop trying to play the dome as the victim there is more working in favour for the dome than numbers or organisation. This is alone pointed out by the fact that opwars are dominated by monks and who has pritty much a monopoly on monks anticity i mean ffs the ONLY medium-high range psi seller in the game is located in the crahn HQ ffs and do not try and compare this to the PE PA 1-2 seller in PP lab because that area is easily accessible by anti city heck before the safezone changes a couple of patchs back it was practically the new PP1-Plaza zoneline. Unlike the smuggler in the Crahn HQ which is surrounded by guards and now has a guard at the gr so unlike PP HQ you can't gr in.
Oh and the majority reason of the northern ops are held alot by anti city is the DoY bots and other NPC's you cannot escape that fact heck there are even doy guardians guarding hunting spots in the northern territory if that isn't a huge bias i dunno what is.
Escador Oasis GR needs to be restablished and should have an increased storm bot prescence that or NC should have a storyline in which we construct our own canyon north of MC5 or MC5 becomes a forward base for procity and external guards are allied to city.
Jesterthegreat
19-06-05, 22:27
Jesterthegreat: Syncon, not Soliko, easy mistake to make. Yeah, we're sort of a charity case, too just like the mostly no longer existant Freelancers and their indefensible ops in the northwest corner. We will fight for it, and we have offers of assistance from R2K and FF if we need it. So with their help, we probably could hold it. And that's my point. If, say, some tiny little NEXT clan or whatever grabbed McPherson now, and FF attacked, they'd be rolled back in a heartbeat, if there even was anbody from that NEXT clan online to notice, nor could they count on help from any other pro-city clan. If, on the other hand, U4N were to attack Syncon in force, they'd crush us like a bug in the first wave ... but almost the whole friggin' Dome would show up to help us take it back. That's unity. You should try it some time.
t'was not me... scroll up and see who you should be replying too
Don't kid yourself. You own those outposts because those of us up north are feeling sorry for you. In case you hadn't noticed, you lose them everytime any of our larger clans gets bored. Your side doesn't control the bottom 1/4 to 1/3 of the map because of your overpowering strength. You own them because we're pretty much all united in favor of giving you a breather, in hopes that you'll recover enough to give us more fights.
It's true, sadly.
Ill quote you on that Brad in a couple of weeks. As I said, we're doing fine, and we don't need DoY sympathy or management advice - the game population is not that black and white. If you think you have what it takes to take the pro city clans 1v1 with anti city clans, then bring it.
If Paradox or anyone else other than FF thinks they can hold them from us on their own, I invite you to try at your earliest convenience. Oh and Imperium, if you'd like I can direct you our numbers to make sure we have 4 more than you, just so we can give you a fair fight against your l33t skilled clan.
-Edit - In fact, your whole theory in this thread is based on the fact that DoY will call for allies when under attack, while Neocron will not, hence making the former 'superior' in some way. Well thats just one position, as some people might think that calling for help is how fights escalate to be boring by the numbers city zergs. You might find that not everyone wants that, and prefers to fight and hold ops as one clan...just as it was in Neocron 1.
that will be fun to see, see if doy can hold every op for 1 day withough loosing any op for more than 1 hour =]
40$Poser: I actually thought about it. I even had two City Admin characters halfway leveled up, a couple of weeks ago. But my heart wasn't in it, for a reason very few of you will be able to understand. There are no longer any meaningful incentives to be a Tsunami, but for my own personal reasons I'm deeply committed to the Syndicate. I just don't have the heart to go elsewhere.
who wants to be on the losing side anyways? So much easier when you can leech benefits from other allied factions. ^_^
Best to not try and be a Neocron version of Dr. Phil trying to fix relationships and form new habits for the other side, cause most of the time you probably aren't aware of who's agreed to what and what the other side had to put up with.
Argie, I agree with your comments. I personally can not understand why pro city clans are withdrawing GR access and bonuses from their ops to pro city runners. All the characters I've made since I joined NC2 a month or so ago have been pro city. In that time I have only seen bonus pop up on my screen once in the wastes with these characters. Yet whenever I've used the one character I've transferred from NC1 (a tsunami runner), practically all of the north zones in the wastes give me bonus and genrep rights. That alone makes playing a DoY much more enjoyable, and without a doubt helps a great deal towards DoY being the strongest faction for any runner. It seems like the clans on the pro side are fighting only for themselves and not for their city.
Amen!
@BRADstl: It does take balls and courage to be an ANTI and selflessly campaign for a balance of resources. Hats off, mate!
Pro City Ops are closed because other Pro City Clans are attacking them. Its not a selfish move to withold op bonuses at factorys. When the current danger subsides they will be opened again.
If, on the other hand, U4N were to attack Syncon in force, they'd crush us like a bug in the first wave ... but almost the whole friggin' Dome would show up to help us take it back. That's unity. You should try it some time.
Actually that's called zerging, you cannot hold the op by yourself so you get the rest of the Dome to show up? All that proves is the Dome has more active pvpers then neocorn. Not to mention, the dome has alot easier access to soliko (and just about any OP) then neocron does.
And as for a merger: there was an attempt to merge but somehow they decided not to.
That was actually just an idea between some of us in the clan. It kinda started off with smurf and I talking about what we could do. And one of the options was joining up with blood so we'd actually be apart of clan that always had people online. (>200 members, someone has to be online).
But while we were talking about it in vent, one of our members misheard us and thought we were actually going to join up with blood, like set in stone. Then went over to the blood vent server and so on.
Pro City Ops are closed because other Pro City Clans are attacking them. Its not a selfish move to withold op bonuses at factorys. When the current danger subsides they will be opened again.
It is a fact that when you get constantly attacked by your side's clans, you may have no other option but switching off bonuses.
To their defense, one of clan's chaps was very polite and meant to be helpful. (S)he asked me to GR over, where they'd temporarily switch on the bonuses for me.
However, I had to pass, as I still remember how I got Pked last time such kindness was offered (NOT by this clan though).
Also, one of their clannies started being utterly abusive after I decided not to turn up and kept yelling on public that my Argie is actually the alt of a known Pker, showing that there could have been a hidden agenda on this "invitation"..
PS When we, as Phaze, were the proud owners of a South-East Op, no other pro-city clans would attack. Do you know why? Simply because they respected us. Not our PvP, but our in-game integrity; and this is what the UnforgiveN lack today! Bring back Sarah:)
It is a fact that when you get constantly attacked by your side's clans, you may have no other option but switching off bonuses.
I'll just point out one thing I forgot to, Op bonuses and gr settings are two different things. Bonuses come from the attack setting.
If anyone wishes to use the genrep or bonuses of an op that Soldierz uses, and we're not in combat at that minute, feel free to direct me and I will open it for you.
If anyone wishes to use the genrep or bonuses of an op that Soldierz uses, and we're not in combat at that minute, feel free to direct me and I will open it for you.
I would, if you somehow promise you won't gank me and type "sex" over my dead body, upon turning up:)
Scanner Darkly
20-06-05, 13:45
Good read Brad, but a perfect plan for world domination is sometimes foiled by the most indignificant of factors: ego.
http://www.sdarkly.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/nc/theory.jpg
Major Havoc
20-06-05, 13:51
Well... That made interesting reading, and the trolling and flaming aside, there's valid points from both sides, and I take my hat off to Brad for kickstarting the thread.
Summer is upon us, and mighty fine it is too, so I see -=BLOOD=- taking a sabbatical from NC2 - the guys are already playing BF2 at the mo as it's something fresh, something different, and you'd have to be blind not to notice that the server populations are continuing to drop...
I sure hope SoldierZ and U4N can get around a table and patch up their differences, and turn their combined might upon the Dome, maybe put Brad's theories to the test?
Me? I'm gonna install the BF2 demo I just downloaded, see what all the fuss is about ;)
Me? I'm gonna install the BF2 demo I just downloaded, see what all the fuss is about ;)
Its worth it :)
Jesterthegreat
20-06-05, 19:45
Its worth it :)
roger that
roger that
Durka durka mohammed jihad...
Jesterthegreat
20-06-05, 19:54
Durka durka mohammed jihad...
last time someone quoted from that film it got edited...
last time someone quoted from that film it got edited...
Its also in BF2, so I doubt quoting from the game is wrong :p
interesting read tbh.......
sooo nce went ca and sytem remade the clan as u4n this was because as protopharm we had to keep changing gr settings the gr'ing in to an op and finding holstiles.as for the colour of the map i do recall holding at least 13 ops for a long time without the help of others regardless of what others say i do have plenty of screenshots :p
(maybe a few fights with a few others clans helping then :D )
@ brad, your clan holds one op and saying us up north shows that its not protected by your clan but a number of clans/people which is not hard but, fair enough your a small clan :p
also for the eecord nice ninja on jankins when nce owned it i was the le'd spy in the ug when you took it and nobody was online but meh its only a game so plzzz dont start flaming as i dont care.
troubles with soldierz has been resolved as far as i know.
a merger with blood??? nah people always argue on leadrship and the clan name :lol:
@ eric cryton, SEX :lol: :lol: :lol:
also nice fight FF lasted a good while ( the one at grant mine that is)
lore i'll get you next time sooo close but not close enough.
who wants to be on the losing side anyways? So much easier when you can leech benefits from other allied factions.How long did it take you to notice that I'm Tsunami? Does that suggest to you that I pick my faction based on who's winning? Ever?
Don't kid yourself. You own those outposts because those of us up north are feeling sorry for you. In case you hadn't noticed, you lose them everytime any of our larger clans gets bored. Your side doesn't control the bottom 1/4 to 1/3 of the map because of your overpowering strength. You own them because we're pretty much all united in favor of giving you a breather, in hopes that you'll recover enough to give us more fights.
you're the man !
How long did it take you to notice that I'm Tsunami? Does that suggest to you that I pick my faction based on who's winning? Ever?
I don't see how you can try to give a solution to a problem you probably don't fully understand. Meanwhile you sit allied to the current paint of the map, doy factions. You seem quite comfortable on the doy side of things.
Tidus_Origin
23-06-05, 16:20
Kiros: It seems the earthlings won.
Kang: Did they? That board with a nail in it may have defeated us.But the humans won't stop there. They'll make bigger boards and bigger nails, and soon, they will make a board with a nail so big, it will destroy them all!
I know its a little off-topic, but isn't Kiros that guy with the knives from Final Fantasy 8? :D
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