View Full Version : Neocron 3: Irata II
A few clarifications concerning the now cancelled release of Neocron2 in Asia:
A possible positive effect may be that the results from the Asian beta test could accelerate the plans for a new Neocron.
Be prepared for nc3 ... comming June 2015.
I bet in NC3 if there is a playerbase left everyone will again be shouting at KK to go back to NC1 :lol:
I thought of Tokyo II instead :D
Tokyo II would be the next logical step
Dr Strange
18-06-05, 00:06
Maybe concentrate on finishing the "expansion" first?
Considering Asia was a bust (they aren't competing with Starcraft or Lineage 2) let's just focus on fixing Neocron 2
they've done more after the asian crash than since NC2 hit retail
mmh, why not, ...
I hope just one thing, thats in Kk s head it is clear that the best way to make money, and to get back the old players, is to come back to Nc 1, make one more server, and they will be full ! everyday !
nc3 will be in dos mode :lol: since nc1 ruled, nc2 sucker nc3 will be in dos and suck even more :p
lol, if they bring out "neocron 3" and it sucks and is really buggy, then boys and girls, get out your paypal acounts and click on the "donate" button.
fix nc2, which has bugs from nc1. :)
Dr Strange
19-06-05, 07:41
lol, if they bring out "neocron 3" and it sucks and is really buggy, then boys and girls, get out your paypal acounts and click on the "donate" button.
fix nc2, which has bugs from nc1. :)
They couldn't. I mean, come on. A company, hypothetically speaking here, would have to just be complete idiots to have a current game on the MMO market, with some kind of player base, only to dump it to create a third installment in the game universe. Hell technically NC2 isn't even a sequel, Neocron "3" would be the official sequel, unless they labeled it another expansion.
If a company did decide to do that, it'd be the final nail in the coffin.
They couldn't. I mean, come on. A company, hypothetically speaking here, would have to just be complete idiots to have a current game on the MMO market, with some kind of player base, only to dump it to create a third installment in the game universe. Hell technically NC2 isn't even a sequel, Neocron "3" would be the official sequel, unless they labeled it another expansion.
If a company did decide to do that, it'd be the final nail in the coffin.
hows that.. if the game was better wouldnt the player base want to place the sequel...
Here is the way I always saw it, most likely cuz this sorta how i was told it once, and then i interpreted it into this :
Neocron 1 - The Cursed Earth
"Civil war" in one of the last standing cities of Earth
Neocron 2 - Dome of York
The Dome strikes back
Neocron 3 - Tokyo II
The eastern city
Neocron 4 - Irata III
The fate of those who left
Then only 1 step that SERIOUSLY!!! has to be taken from 3-4 a space shuttle from both nc, doy, tokyo to irata 3 so you can visit all places.
If Neocron switches hands, I believe it will be much better -_-
Dr Strange
19-06-05, 09:58
hows that.. if the game was better wouldnt the player base want to place the sequel...
In theory yes
But you have to look at the current track record
[ edited ]
NC1 was a fan based hit. A sleeper hit. I never played it personally but everyone that has, says it was the best. NC2, is somewhat lackluster when compared to NC1. Just look at how many people want NC1 compared to those that want NC2. Hell, I never played NC1 but if it was better than NC2 is I want it myself.
That's the current track record. They have lost a small percentage of business and subscriptions due to NC2, and all related problems.
So you have to stop and think "if they do ditch NC2 and move straight onto NC3, whats to stop the same thing from happening again?" How do we know NC3 won't be as bug ridden as NC2 was? How do we know NC3 will come out within a reasonable time period and not become the next Duke Nukem Forever? For all we know they could call NC3 an expansion to NC2 and release it 4 years from now, like what people say about NC2 in relation to NC1.
It's a 50/50 shot of succeeding if they move straight onto NC3, normally. Under normal circumstances. With NC2's average success, I'd give it (NC3) a 30/70 shot (not in their favor..) of succeeding.
And I'll play devils advocate with you. Say they do release NC3 in a reasonable timeline. Say it owns, it's a good game. They will still alienate a good portion of the playerbase. Why? Look at how many people have left between NC1 and the current timeline of NC2; problems with Click2Pay, failed promises, etc How do you think those fans will feel? Even though the new NC3 would be cool, the money and time they invested into putting their faith into NC2 would just be a slap in the face. I can't speak for them, but personally I'd not buy or play NC3 just out of sheer princple and morality.
Dr Strange
19-06-05, 10:04
Here is the way I always saw it, most likely cuz this sorta how i was told it once, and then i interpreted it into this :
Neocron 1 - The Cursed Earth
"Civil war" in one of the last standing cities of Earth
Neocron 2 - Dome of York
The Dome strikes back
Neocron 3 - Tokyo II
The eastern city
Neocron 4 - Irata III
The fate of those who left
Then only 1 step that SERIOUSLY!!! has to be taken from 3-4 a space shuttle from both nc, doy, tokyo to irata 3 so you can visit all places.
That sounds cool.
If they plan it out over the next 5-8 years. NC2 has been "released" for just under a year now. It's only been in box form for a little over a month. If they jump straight to NC3 now as well as a planned NC4 after that, it's just too much too soon.
It's like Magic The Gathering. If you ever played that, for fun or competively, you probably know the game's real strong fan base started taking a huge hit in players around 1999/2000. Why? The put too much out too soon. 1 standalone set each year, plus 2 expansions, and a new core set (edition) every 2-3 years it was just too much. Even the casual player had a hard time affording all the stuff. Same thing could happen here, if they put out a NC3 within 2 years of NC2 it's just not going to work. And let's not even consider an NC4.
MMO's are meant to be the opposite of an FPS or RTS, their meant to stand the tests of time. That's the reason for new content on a regular basis, new players, etc Do we really want NC to become the next Sims or Everquest where there's an expansion, add-on or sequel every 5 months?
The problem KK has is they dont listen to the community... People have been saying Remove Para since retail, take away copbot/doyguard shock, so many things that don't take alot of time to change. They're in their own little world, they think they know how to improve this game - but they don't.
The problem KK has is they dont listen to the community... People have been saying Remove Para since retail, take away copbot/doyguard shock, so many things that don't take alot of time to change. They're in their own little world, they think they know how to improve this game - but they don't.
I think their problem is more fundamental than that. Put basically it's ADD.
We continually hear things like 'player shops are almost complete' - then they completely disappear off the radar and a whole batch of new ideas suddenly appears out of nowhere.
Basically, like many undisciplined developers (myself included at one time, and I still do this to a certain extent) they'd much rather work on their latest brainchild than finishing something that's already in progress.
This theory also accounts for the fact that, although we continually see messages like 'fixed some bugs' or 'fixed some stability issues' in the patch notes, far too many bugs and instability issues remain.
The difference between the development teams of Neocron and other games like Anarchy Online is not money, numbers, inability, or anything else. It's discipline.
Athon Solo
Basically, like many undisciplined developers (myself included at one time, and I still do this to a certain extent) they'd much rather work on their latest brainchild than finishing something that's already in progress.
I think I can safely say that this ranks amongst the most arrogant things I've ever read on these boards. I can only hope that one day our devs will be as disciplined as you, but in the meantime I still look forward to playing your commercially released game.
N
I think I can safely say that this ranks amongst the most arrogant things I've ever read on these boards. I can only hope that one day our devs will be as disciplined as you,
Ok did you not read his post? He said like he was at one time, meaning he must have some experience and idea of what its like to be a software developer. So its not arrogant its telling from personnal experience. Also you can't deny that there is still bugs that have plagued this game since Beta/NC1.
but in the meantime I still look forward to playing your commercially released game.
N
As for that comment, thats just god damn childish. I thought you were a mod not just another forum spamming kid.
Dr Strange
20-06-05, 05:21
Ok did you not read his post? He said like he was at one time, meaning he must have some experience and idea of what its like to be a software developer. So its not arrogant its telling from personnal experience. Also you can't deny that there is still bugs that have plagued this game since Beta/NC1.
As for that comment, thats just god damn childish. I thought you were a mod not just another forum spamming kid.
My hats off to you sir, you are my hero (i loved that reply)
Ok did you not read his post? He said like he was at one time, meaning he must have some experience and idea of what its like to be a software developer. So its not arrogant its telling from personnal experience. Also you can't deny that there is still bugs that have plagued this game since Beta/NC1.Actually you misinterpruted Nid's meaning, just because Athon was like that at one time does not mean the Dev's at KK are like that. Which is what Athon was implying. Saying that is how things work, without being behind the scenes and actually knowing whats going on is arrogant. How about I speak from experience.. I have ADHD, i know full well what the behavior is like, and exactly what the outcome of it is.
The ADD comment is totally unbasis'd, especially since someone like me being someone who has the worst version of it, has a hatred for leaving things unfinished, which there is some people out there who can back me up on, I'm forever trying to get old projects restarted and finished. The sideeffect where someone jumps from project to project never finishing anything is just an example of that person doing something they're not interested in. Me personaly, I need a challenge to truely enjoy something, it doesn't matter if it's mindnumbingly boring to 90% of the population, as long as I can find some challange in it, I'll usually stick with it till I've beaten it.
That aside. Everyone compares KK to the big Development houses like Blizzard or Sony, and state just how much those people are doing with their games in such short time frames. Totally ignoring the fact that they have much more experience in the industry, not to mention manpower then KK has. To quote one person "Blizzards one patch is about the size of all Neocron's patches put together." Nowhere in there does it mention anything about the fact that if you compare credits and exclude Ingame Support staff you're looking at around 700 people for Blizzard, and around 80 for Neocron. In reality KK's staff is closer to 40 including those like me who are parttime, and not inhouse.
So, a project gets started, now lets say a higher priority issues comes up, like a new exploit someone's found.
Dev's get pulled off the project to try and fixed said exploit.
Then they go back to working on the project, while the dev's are working on that, the other parts of the team are working on somehting else,
They run into a problem that requires Coders to fix, Coders stop what they're doing on the project and fix that issue so the other parts of the team can continue on their work.
They get near completetion of project, and find out that they've run into a much larger problem with the way it was designed that requires fixing other system first. (Think of the Pheonix CPU and the fact it broke the engine with the way it was designed.)
That said, it has nothing to do with being of a "ADD" mindset, and everything to do with a never ending cycle of interruptions, compounded by being a small Development team. The resources to do everything all at once just isnt there.
The one thing I hate doing more then anything is hitting up CoDi on the Office IM and saying I have more work for him to do. I swear his first reaction to seeing a message from me is to hide somewhere and hope I'll go away, or from anyone else for that matter.
People seem to forget that I have someone at my desk every 5 minutes asking me questions or wanting something else.
KK is not Blizzard or Sony, or any of the other Multinational compaines that have offices all over the world with thousands of people at their disposal. They do their best with what they got, and are under constant pressure from both the player base, and those above them.
Theres a reason I am where I am, and I do what I do. I have huge amounts of respect for the guys at the office, and the amount of pressure they face everyday.
Bugs Gunny
20-06-05, 09:43
Just look at the state nc is in.
They claimed item tracking was in and then when the shit hits the fan (5slot spells going storebought after last patch) it's not.....
Player stores was BIG salesargument for people to move over to nc2. Has anyone seen it, or even glimpse that it is being worked on?
So much stuff that worked in nc1 is broken in nc2....
I just log on, load up, try to kill some people and log off these days as there is far better games out there right now. I even gave away my third account this weekend. Dunno what'll happen once the first two expire, but right now i don't feel like it's worth reactivating.
Now if KK were to admit their mistakes and ask the players what THEY want and actualy create a world that the players want to play in, things might get different. Right now it's just :"Hey, we had this great idea and put it in. We don't care if you love it or not, we enjoy it, so you must play it."
far better games out there right now
if only there was... as SOON AS ONE EXISTS.. neocron is dead. (you might have a few minutes to read that before it gets edited)
i dont care how small the dev team is.... every day 10 suggestions of tiny little things that would improve the game immensely are suggested and ignored... I agree with the KK has ADD thing or at least they try slight of hand.. they distract us from the things we really want and have requested and have been promised and are needed - with some useless feature no one ever asked for or wanted, or reimplement (and not even AS GOOD as) nc1 features that THEY BROKE in the first place as a MAJOR PATCH...
if your team is too small to upkeep a game that can ever add a single real new feature that anyone wants then mabye you shouldn't charge us as much or more then every single one of these companies you cant be compared to...
dont get me wrong i enjoy what exists but id like to see some sort of sign the game has any future, i dont think it has. and the only reason i post these sorts is when i see people from KK trying to defend how shitty they've been with "very busy small team", well we never see one result of all this buisiness anywhere...
I think I can safely say that this ranks amongst the most arrogant things I've ever read on these boards. I can only hope that one day our devs will be as disciplined as you, but in the meantime I still look forward to playing your commercially released game.
N
I was not trying to be arrogant. And I understand that KK are not going to be able to produce patches with the features and size of those provided by larger teams such as Anarchy Online's. However, the one thing that does happen with these larger teams that doesn't with KK, and doesn't depend upon development team size, is that if features get annoucned in such a big way to the players, they get implemented.
It still amazes me how frequently KK announce an amazing set of new features in their plan files and forums posts when the features we were told were going to be in NC2 and before are never finished. KK say they are learning continually, but it's still happening.
Something somewhere is STILL going wrong. Either KK are continuing to announce features far too early, before its been determined whether the features are actually feasible, or the developers are just plain never getting round to finishing earlier features because they'd rather work on their latest brainchild.
If the problem is continuous incoming work requests, then something needs to be done about the frequency with which Codi and the other developers deal with incoming work requests.
I personally deal with this problem by shutting down my email client completely and only checking it twice a day. This way I generally spend a couple of hours in the morning dealing with the small fry crap, chasing up anything I'm waiting on etc, then get to spend the rest of the morning working flat out on one given peice of work until lunch. Then I do the same in the afternoon, tho I generally have much fewer small items to deal with, often leaving any I do have until the next morning, giving me the whole afternoon to work flat out on a given project.
I've seen and played many other games and used many other programs by small development teams, and none has ever has so many announced but unimplemented features as Neocron - this has to be my biggest criticism and always has been.
Athon Solo
KK is not Blizzard or Sony, or any of the other Multinational compaines that have offices all over the world with thousands of people at their disposal. They do their best with what they got, and are under constant pressure from both the player base, and those above them.
Then stop trying to act like them, continually announcing yet another amazing set of new features, this admission that KK are working on a new expansion pack or engine rather than completing the features they've already announced (and many of which the players really want) being just the latest.
Quotes like this are reminiscent of the whole "it's an expansion pack marketed as a new game" bullshit that KK put out with NC2 that at the end of the day just confused the people more than anything else.
Athon Solo
Ok did you not read his post?
Please read and comprehend my post before criticising it. We do not need lessons in programming discipline from someone without the qualifications to teach it. Nor do we require lessons in basic time management skills.
N
Please read and comprehend my post before criticising it. We do not need lessons in programming discipline from someone without the qualifications to teach it. Nor do we require lessons in basic time management skills.
N
Who's being arrogant now? Just personal experiance here, but most people who say they have nothing to learn from someone often have a very large amount to learn.
Athon Solo
You didn't read my message again. I never said we had nothing to learn.
N
By what Lupus said is the problem, it IS a discipline thing. I lead software projects, not games true, but small dev teams working on very large mission critical apps on very large databases. Doesn't men I know whats going on in KK though. But if the situation is as Lupus described then, yep, theres a discipline problem. Basically, if you're constantly (at odd times yes, its unavoidable, especially if your documentation is so poor you absolutely have to have a certain individual do a certain thing) pulling people off developing new features to fix exploits, and bugs, as they arise, you've got a discipline/structure problem. One team to firefight, one team to develop new stuff, and one person/team with the overview to make sure that the two teams (or er.. people if you're that small) don't F.Up each others work.
Constantly moving a dev from one area to another is bad for their work, it results in code stuck together with chewing gum, string and bogeys, and it all blows up in your face eventually. The best coders in the world cannot function in that kind of enviroment. The work will suffer, greatly.
Unfortunately, we don't have one coding team for this and one coding team for that; we have one coding team. ;) That doesn't mean to say that the resources we have are undisciplined though, and as a project manager yourself you'll know how productive even small teams can be if managed properly.
N
I was not trying to be arrogant. And I understand that KK are not going to be able to produce patches with the features and size of those provided by larger teams such as Anarchy Online's. However, the one thing that does happen with these larger teams that doesn't with KK, and doesn't depend upon development team size, is that if features get annoucned in such a big way to the players, they get implemented.
It still amazes me how frequently KK announce an amazing set of new features in their plan files and forums posts when the features we were told were going to be in NC2 and before are never finished. KK say they are learning continually, but it's still happening.
Something somewhere is STILL going wrong. Either KK are continuing to announce features far too early, before its been determined whether the features are actually feasible, or the developers are just plain never getting round to finishing earlier features because they'd rather work on their latest brainchild.
If the problem is continuous incoming work requests, then something needs to be done about the frequency with which Codi and the other developers deal with incoming work requests.
I personally deal with this problem by shutting down my email client completely and only checking it twice a day. This way I generally spend a couple of hours in the morning dealing with the small fry crap, chasing up anything I'm waiting on etc, then get to spend the rest of the morning working flat out on one given peice of work until lunch. Then I do the same in the afternoon, tho I generally have much fewer small items to deal with, often leaving any I do have until the next morning, giving me the whole afternoon to work flat out on a given project.
I've seen and played many other games and used many other programs by small development teams, and none has ever has so many announced but unimplemented features as Neocron - this has to be my biggest criticism and always has been.
Athon Solo Basically what you describe here is called : enthusiasm. You had never experienced it before? Enthusiastic remarks about their product they/us/you like are not that bad. Come on dont tell me you never EVER made a mistake :D
Your arguments are based only in assumptions Athon as usual, and as usual you never ever present any hard facts. Stating the obvious remark about player shops adds nothing more to what has been said already
and as a project manager yourself you'll know how productive even small teams can be if managed properly.
N
Too right I do, heh. Thing is though, I always weep when I have to start moving coders around between wholly seperate tasks. When I do have to do it I always have my fingers crossed behind my back ;) I would still try to split the team, I would howver have a panic attack every morning still about accidentally making two code bases, but, at least the team members arent being distracted from their core task.
I do appreciate however that sometimes this is still completely impossible. True.
One team to firefight, one team to develop new stuff, and one person/team with the overview to make sure that the two teams (or er.. people if you're that small) don't F.Up each others work.
This is something ive always though should be about as it grants continuous development but then the size of the KK team comes into play again, if there was some of KK made into an urgent exploit fix etc team development of new stuff would slow down some what But i think for a time if events both PvP and RP were around alot the almost finished projects got finished and worked there way in with constant Liasoningage from Nid on progress even if its just "This week KK fixed an element of the engine allowing the Phoenix CPU to move but it is still being worked on for balance etc" while the "firefighting team" worked on exploits as they appeared and spent the rest of their time sifting through the code and bug reports fixing what they can the community would be alot happier and the game would (in an ideal world) slowly improve and improve well.
But resources and other limitations most likly stop this from happening i would like to see KK work in this manner but i dont run a business and i dont even know if this could work but its just what i think.
P.S. Has DarkFall settled in at KK now and will we hear from him soon?
Yes, he's settling in and getting up to speed quite nicely from what I'm told. It's not an inconsiderable job, especially when you consider that Neocron is almost all developed in-house. I.e. he needs to get up to speed with not one but two graphics engines (interior and exterior) as well as the netcode, server code, client code etc. etc. and that's before you even start looking at database code (we use a modified MySQL engine) and payment mechanisms etc. The only part that wasn't developed in-house was the foundation of the interior graphics engine but even that is radically modified from its beginnings. Also, as stated in the plan file, we'll be setting up an "in development" page which should give better insight into what's being worked on.
N
@Nidhogg - any ETA of the "in development" page?
Yes, he's settling in
Ah finally some news on the new guy at KK, have asked in 3 separate threads for this info.
So this bring the number of full time coders/developers (ie that could fix something like a fatal) to how many?
Oh, and since it got mentioned, is there any news on the ruining of our spells since last patch?
I find it deeply distressing how account holders can so easily turn nasty towards the game's developers.
We seem to forget how limited the KK's human resources are compared to other Developers. We also ignore the fact that:
-) We moaned about them not listening and as soon as we got those forum You-Name-It Weeks, we started moaning that ..they don't concentrate on more important issues?!?
-) We moaned about drone bugs, and since a given patch was applied, everybody turned a droner (go to El-Farid if you don't believe me)
-) We moaned about Memory Leaks and it is an altF-proven fact that they have now virtually stopped taking place as much; I'm now convinced that they currently work on other crash-related issues.
-) We moaned about NC2 not being marketed correctly and you can now find it even in Bookstores in Athens, shortly after it was released through the right commercial channels.
-) We moaned about NC2 not being "International" enough, but after the developers made that ill-timed Asian attempt, we felt like having to take the piss, as it didn't go to plan.
Just disgraceful and self-destructive (it's "our" game too you know)
@Nidhogg: Don't argue with idiots, as they will bring you down to their level and beat you hands down due to experience..
@Bugs Gunny: Who told you there are no traces of Player Shops around? What is Heavyporker's for? :)
There's no black and white in this situation. ;) There are things we really could do better and there are things which we honestly have no control over and I'm trying to present that line in such a way that is reasonable and honest. Can we talk more about what we do day to day? Yes we can. Can we change things that are cast in stone with multiple groups of lawyers? No, unfortunately we can't. It's difficult to appreciate just how the business works and I also realise that me explaining something doesn't solve anything either. We have to try to see one another's perspectives here.
I'm happy to discuss the situation in a reasonable manner but I don't appreciate people with little grasp of the facts making statements that are offensive, whether they are solely based on a lack of understanding of the business or not.
N
Also a well done to Athon, who defended our NC2
http://mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/setstart/11/loadthread/23058/loadforum/477/loadclass/157
pls read through and you won't help feeling for him:)
-) We moaned about them not listening and as soon as we got those forum You-Name-It Weeks, we started moaning that ..they don't concentrate on more important issues?!?
cause the You-Name-It Weeks became You-name-it-years and basically a big fake...
-) We moaned about drone bugs, and since a given patch was applied, everybody turned a droner (go to El-Farid if you don't believe me)
If everyone turned a droner where are they now??? The *only* reason there was and still there are that many droners in NC is mc5 exploit - fast and easy way to get an mc5 chip. If you dont realise that you're blind...
-) We moaned about Memory Leaks and it is an altF-proven fact that they have now virtually stopped taking place as much; I'm now convinced that they currently work on other crash-related issues.
Nothing changed for me, sorry. I crash every half an hour due to lack of memory (1gb) just as half a year ago.
The only thing that helped about memory leaks in NC was to buy more ram...
-) We moaned about NC2 not being marketed correctly and you can now find it even in Bookstores in Athens, shortly after it was released through the right commercial channels.
now that is the dumbest thing i've read on those forums in a looooong time. I wont even comment on that...
-) We moaned about NC2 not being "International" enough, but after the developers made that ill-timed Asian attempt, we felt like having to take the piss, as it didn't go to plan.
[ edited ]
all in all, that's really, really pathetic...
Xylaz,
either
a) you are bored at work, browsing and posting in this forum (like my good self)
or
b) your game-client crashed and found your runner dead upon relogging, causing you to grief in the forum.
One way or another I totally sympathise. However, your break down-and-answer method seems to be totally unecessary.
The Drone-week did not last for years
Droners are all over the place, unless there is an MC5 bug taking place in El Farid
Memory Leaks have been actually limited. Just press ALT-F and keep zoning (The El-Farid is a good example) to see that memory is mostly recovered rather than chopped off.
Good job you won't comment on how KK market their products abroad. [ edited ]
I couldn't care less about virtually everything you are about to put down next, but one particular thing saddened me a lot; the fact that you've been for so long around this game and yet chose to be so childishly negative towards the entire KK effort to save our game..
End of the day nc2 is nc1 with doy and afew things removed nc1 was alot better you cant even have fun in pepper park any more because you get the ca gaurds pinning you to the floor which sux ass nc1 was way better :lol: (for pking)
Xylaz,
either
a) you are bored at work, browsing and posting in this forum (like my good self)
or
b) your game-client crashed and found your runner dead upon relogging, causing you to grief in the forum.
One way or another I totally sympathise. However, your break down-and-answer method seems to be totally unecessary.
The Drone-week did not last for years
Droners are all over the place, unless there is an MC5 bug taking place in El Farid
Memory Leaks have been actually limited. Just press ALT-F and keep zoning (The El-Farid is a good example) to see that memory is mostly recovered rather than chopped off.
Good job you won't comment on how KK market their products abroad. [ edited ]
I couldn't care less about virtually everything you are about to put down next, but one particular thing saddened me a lot; the fact that you've been for so long around this game and yet chose to be so childishly negative towards the entire KK effort to save our game..
grrr, i hate this... you should just respond in anger and hate and not beeing nice and all :p ... make me looks like an idiot...
ok sorry then, maybe it was a little too harsh. Sorry
My point is simply - for me KK is doing more harm than good to NC. [ edited ], they got one big mess with everything basically. That's my opinion and all those pathetic nidhogg's tries to make em looks like 'poor hard working people' only confirm my suspicions. At this very moment they have wrecked everything they could basically - c2p, international realease, nc2, theme weeks - everything except the game itself but only due to a fact that they havent worked on it yet (they were busy for the last 2 years with making nc2, setting up c2p, making ubar deals with NC2 in asia or trying to think the worst possible solution for "international release").
Its my opinion though. Maybe i'm wrong, but the fact is that due to KK people are leaving this game. Its slowly but steady process. We already have like 10 times less people than in NC1 and nc population decreases steadily every month.
My wrath simply is caused by the fact that KK isnt doing anything to stop it.
Its my opinion though. Maybe i'm wrong
Considering half the points you cite aren't anything to do with KK, I'd probably meet you somewhere in the middle. Also, make your point without flaming in future.
N
Xylaz, as I said before, I totally sympathise with you and, believe me, there is no need to be apologetic (and definitely no need to be aggressive). It's your opinion and you have every right to express it.
I only wish that the remaining NC2 players would grant KK a bit more time to resolve problems. What is 2-3 more months compared to the 2-3 years you've been probably around?
Yes, Asia release did not meet expectations. Yes, the populations are lower. Yes we crash all the time. Some of us, smash our keyboards, others curse KK in forums; but no matter what your reaction is, the crashes will NOT disappear. We will have to trust KK on this. Do NOT underestimate the power of Self-Preservation. I'm sure they don't wanna fail a lot more than I don't want them to fail. It could be a matter of a few weeks... you never know.
Please bear in mind a couple of things.
-) Nearly all players who left Neocron are still keeping an eye on NC2 and wait till things get better. All are impressed by WoW technical "flawless" so far, but greatly disappointed after the first two weeks of repetitive levelling. Sort of an eye candy..
-) Eventually, regardless how long it's gonna take, KK WILL sort out the stability. Then it will be us having the coolest MMORPG around and the biggest smile - FACT! Even if you don't wanna be supportive for the sake of KK's welfare, then do it for the sake of the time you spent building up your characters. It's called self respect:)
FFS GUYS
non of u think the game suks, u would have all canseled ur acounts long ago.
what was said earlyer, if a better game came alone we would all quit and nc would die, well its true if one did nc prolly would die, but we have been playing for years and a game hasnt, games just dont have what NC has (dont u dare say syncs fatals and para :p )
the reason we all bitch and moan in simple, the game isnt doing as good as it should, we all know the game should be up there with the best of them, its a brilliant idea, first real fps mmo, thats like genious, its a great genre, and the syncs and fatals are manageable, we have delt with them since origional beta
we rant because the game isnt as popular as we all know it should be, kk with the small team they have (god im starrting to sound like a carebear fan boy, sumbody shoot me with the cs) done a good job on the game, ye it still has fre's and syncs and even the mem leak, but its getting better,
we bitch when the relese a plan file, but do u realy think they have forgot what they said in the last one, and ye the break stuf but its to be expected. they aint writing MMO solitare here, its a fps with complex rules and precedures that the code has to abide to, there expected to make some mistakes.
since nid became the comunity liason we have had imporved comunication, some ppl seem to wana know every line of code ur putting in, and to be fair a little more headsup on what ur doing at any one time would be nice,
currently ur in a unescapable loop
to get more programers u need more money
to get more money u need more gamers
to get more gamers u need a more stable game
to get a more stable game u need more programers
=] id love to say speculate to acumulate but i doubt they could pay the wages on the current subscription numbers for a new influk of programers
also i hate to say this, i REALY DO, but dont listen to the comunity
(OMG IM GONA GET FLAMED TO DEATH)
listening to the comunity it was causes problems, the origional idea way back in beta was great, listening to crazie ppl made the game a little bit erm, crazie, (i forget details, im sure i can pull up some stuf to backup my argument, old fourms an all, some ppl back from the old days back me up, and if not dont hurt meeeeee)
that said still take the comunitys views into consideration, eg, 95% hate para, so why havent u done sumin to modifie it lol, i still dont agree with removing it, but it is a bit of a kill joy... and we all agree ppus wreck pvp (however u are suposed to be fixing that now... so how long ago was that topic, and u havent breached a new idea ;) )
bah closing 2 things, i agree with lup and nid on there comments but i also have to say nid u did get a bit erm, jumped up there, not that i dont agree but u should be more tactfull, ppl will use any opertunity to flame u so dont give em it,
and finaly, gluck to the programers, and gluck to the comunity =] we both need it hehe
Actually you misinterpruted Nid's meaning, just because Athon was like that at one time does not mean the Dev's at KK are like that. Which is what Athon was implying. Saying that is how things work, without being behind the scenes and actually knowing whats going on is arrogant. How about I speak from experience.. I have ADHD, i know full well what the behavior is like, and exactly what the outcome of it is.
The ADD comment is totally unbasis'd, especially since someone like me being someone who has the worst version of it, has a hatred for leaving things unfinished, which there is some people out there who can back me up on, I'm forever trying to get old projects restarted and finished. The sideeffect where someone jumps from project to project never finishing anything is just an example of that person doing something they're not interested in. Me personaly, I need a challenge to truely enjoy something, it doesn't matter if it's mindnumbingly boring to 90% of the population, as long as I can find some challange in it, I'll usually stick with it till I've beaten it.
That aside. Everyone compares KK to the big Development houses like Blizzard or Sony, and state just how much those people are doing with their games in such short time frames. Totally ignoring the fact that they have much more experience in the industry, not to mention manpower then KK has. To quote one person "Blizzards one patch is about the size of all Neocron's patches put together." Nowhere in there does it mention anything about the fact that if you compare credits and exclude Ingame Support staff you're looking at around 700 people for Blizzard, and around 80 for Neocron. In reality KK's staff is closer to 40 including those like me who are parttime, and not inhouse.
So, a project gets started, now lets say a higher priority issues comes up, like a new exploit someone's found.
Dev's get pulled off the project to try and fixed said exploit.
Then they go back to working on the project, while the dev's are working on that, the other parts of the team are working on somehting else,
They run into a problem that requires Coders to fix, Coders stop what they're doing on the project and fix that issue so the other parts of the team can continue on their work.
They get near completetion of project, and find out that they've run into a much larger problem with the way it was designed that requires fixing other system first. (Think of the Pheonix CPU and the fact it broke the engine with the way it was designed.)
That said, it has nothing to do with being of a "ADD" mindset, and everything to do with a never ending cycle of interruptions, compounded by being a small Development team. The resources to do everything all at once just isnt there.
The one thing I hate doing more then anything is hitting up CoDi on the Office IM and saying I have more work for him to do. I swear his first reaction to seeing a message from me is to hide somewhere and hope I'll go away, or from anyone else for that matter.
KK is not Blizzard or Sony, or any of the other Multinational compaines that have offices all over the world with thousands of people at their disposal. They do their best with what they got, and are under constant pressure from both the player base, and those above them.
Theres a reason I am where I am, and I do what I do. I have huge amounts of respect for the guys at the office, and the amount of pressure they face everyday.
Well I'm not one to not appologise when i missed something or misquoted someone.
I actually forgot to comment on the ADD comment. Its not one of those comments that you should draw comparisons with as many people ( as you pointed out have this) I know a few myself.
Basically all he was trying to say as most have us have been saying for awhile is that we really need/want the Dev's to consentrate on the big problems or issues that plaque the game.
Item tracking was a big big problem that has drove many players away over the past few years.
Finally now we have some form of item tracking.
Player shops is another issue, they are needed to actually create a proper economy and reduce inflation.
Fatal Error's, stability and lag problems would be some other main issues that need to be tackled. I'm not saying its going to be easy to tackle those problems but they do need tackled.
I've noticed the devs actually seem to be tackling stability issues atm, so another good step in the right direction.
There is something thats bothering the community that needs to be addressed. We were told that development was being aimed towards getting asain release. That failed as the product was not at a stage suitable for commecial release. So what have we been playing and paying for, for the last few years?
A game that should be still in beta?
We've all thought it at sometime but we know it it can't be easy to develop and maintain a game like Neocron.
So were is all this so called develpment for asain release going to go?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.