View Full Version : [BRAINPORT] Outpost & Bonus Revisions
Just another post to add to the pile of "If I had the money to buy the 'Lead Game Designer' title of Neocron 2" posts...
A series of Outpost revamping. Each OP gets two weeks of coder loving with the following highlights:
- Bugfix Collision Detection with many of the OP models (containers, etc) as well as the 'bugged' fences at some OPs.
- Reform GR Placement to make all OPs have viable turret placement within the OP.
- Reform UG Entrance Placement to minimize the ability of Area Damage Spamming the entrance
- Reform Yo's Placement to minimize SL Loss (Unless they're already un-killable like some other NPCs?)
- Content Addition of at least One Turret Tower :) (Tower Model + Reveler and/or Rhino Gunner Code)
- Content Addition of new Strategic Positions surrounding each OP to promote usage of classes OTHER than Monks (i.e. semi-fortified areas for vehicles, landing strips for aircrafts, towers/forts for spies/PEs, sandbagged/stone wall areas for tanks/snipers - not all for each OP, but one or two features at each OP)
- Content Addition of some forced Vegetation Objects, but enough to make some of strategic usage. (Not a lot - definitely not "Gravis" amounts, but small bushy areas without collision detection for snipers or ambush teams)
- Content Addition of 3 new Lab zones, 2 closer to Neocron City :) bringing the total of Labs to 9, just like Factories to F_02,A_10, and either C_05 or K_08 (K_08 would be an Aircraft required OP :D)
- Removal of No-Belt Drops :angel: Personally, I think there should be a REAL cost to losing at an OP, more circulation of items, forced or not. Like Nidhogg says, "No one ever said this game was for pussies." ;) When the English Community went "OMG BELT DROP IN OPs!??" back in Neocron 1 (See Patch #181 (http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=315&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)) and the German Community went "Reizvoll!", I was with the German Community ;)
- Implementation of "Homecourt Advantage" Bonuses at Non-Outposts for combat runners.
All MB Sectors and J_01 = +10 to All Combat Skills for any CityMercs Runner
A_07, A_08, and A_09 = +10 to All Combat Skills for any Pro-NC Runner
K_11, K_14, and K_16 = +10 to All Combat Skills for any Pro-DoY Runner
- Implementation of "Quest Location" Bonuses --or-- City Bonuses for non-combat runners.
Industrial Sector 1 = +10 to CST for any Non-Clanned Runner
Industrial Sector 2 = +10 to RES for any Non-Clanned Runner
I don't know enough about DoY, but two sectores there would get similar bonuses...
----- OR -----
Mr. Jones Quest Construction Facility = +10 to CST for any Non-Clanned Runner
Mr. Jones Quest Research Lab = +10 to RES for any Non-Clanned Runner
I would prefer the Mr. Jones Quest areas however - imagine noob tradeskillers learning from eachother in these new zones :)
Anyone ever read my original OP-Hacking Revision (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?p=1549681)? We have 4 hacks now. It looks like some of it actually has made it in o_O
So... how much money would I need to get that position? ;)
So... how much money would I need to get that position? ;)
Better ask how many ppl you have to replace/add @ KK Hannover - so the mass of ideas have a chance of getting ingame (KK had good enough ideas themselves.. you know the features ;) )
If you weren't a neocrack addict - would you be willing provide that money? (not talking of buying you in ... but setting up a team thats able to compete with other mmorpgs) ...but again.. wrong question...
Are 10t neocrack addicts? :)
I'm liking the ideas, check my thread (in my siggy) about the UG inside OPs, would be nice if everything was covered at once.
New Theme Millenia perhaps?
* * * * * I'm lovin' it
Lots of this has been talked about for the past 3 years but not i a while. I like 101% of this. Hope KK read it.
- Implementation of "Homecourt Advantage" Bonuses at Non-Outposts for combat runners.
All MB Sectors and J_01 = +10 to All Combat Skills for any CityMercs Runner
A_07, A_08, and A_09 = +10 to All Combat Skills for any Pro-NC Runner
K_11, K_14, and K_16 = +10 to All Combat Skills for any Pro-DoY Runner
Love it, then we can remove the poxy fucking stupid paraing guards ffs
Freaky Fryd
07-06-05, 23:51
Me likey
:D
i think the thing yu are missing is the guards the dome get 2 zones south of them covered with DOY bots, give me the OLD storm bots of NC 1 and make them cover 2 zones deep from the gates of neocron
Dribble Joy
08-06-05, 02:21
- Removal of No-Belt Drops :angel: Personally, I think there should be a REAL cost to losing at an OP, more circulation of items, forced or not. Like Nidhogg says, "No one ever said this game was for pussies." ;) When the English Community went "OMG BELT DROP IN OPs!??" back in Neocron 1 (See Patch #181 (http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=315&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)) and the German Community went "Reizvoll!", I was with the German Community ;)
No, there was a good reason that both communities took the stance that they did back then and besides, an OP is about an OP, not about getting as much loot from the ganked opposition as possible.
No, there was a good reason that both communities took the stance that they did back then and besides, an OP is about an OP, not about getting as much loot from the ganked opposition as possible.
Fundamentally I agree with you - but the way things happen on Terra, an OP is not about an OP. It's about having your name on it as close to 24/7. If an OP was about an OP, clans wouldn't "retake" "their" OPs from other clans when the defending clan was an obvious disadvantages. The problem is there is no loss involved.
Scenario:
Small clan takes OP from Big clan in a fairly even fight. Small clan fights to defend said OP for hours and eventually is exhausted from fighting for hours, fighting alts, fighting ppl they've already killed over and over - have jobs, have lives, have to log. They log, the Big clan with loggable hackers retakes the OP with ease. If the LOSING clan lost items, actually lost ANYTHING other than condition on their armor, then they'd think about coming back over and over and the better fighting clan would rightfully get the OP for awhile. However, even in the case that the Small clan attempts to take the OP then loses to the Big clan - then THEY have lost stuff and will think twice about attacking it again - reliquishing the OP to still, the rightful owners.
Doesn't that make sense?
wouldn't that just bring more ninja hacking?...
After thinking about it, I'm not for the removal of no-belt drop at all. It would discourage clans that have few in number online at the time to go defend their OP if it was under attack, because they wouldn't want to lose anything. It would be a major disadvantage to small clans (take Final Conflict for example, although they seem to have been on their knees to get SoldierZ in their backpocket recently) as even with all their members on, a bigger clan like FF/DarK/Paradox/U4N/Blood would anihilate them any time of the day, and they'd lose items.
Removal of belt drops would only cause real OP fights to occur when both sides have sufficient numbers, that way there is more chance someone can grab your belt and you don't lose anything. Right now I am happy to come out of any UG my clan owns on any of my characters, even if its supporting one fighter on my PPU. I don't lose anything, its always a laugh to see how long it takes for the para-spams to kill me. However if it meant I'd drop a belt when I died, I wouldn't even contimplate (sp?) GRing into or near the outpost under attack.
I like the belt dropping idea it would stop the stupid gutless allied pkers who kill there own faction at places like CRP, get killed and losing nothing. Then simply comming back and continue killing peeps that are only trying to lvl, it has got to stop. I'd be ok with this sort of behavour of killing noobs but there not losing a damn thing doing it, so it is lame and gutless and there are people who think allied killing in the city is bad. At least in the city they can be hunted down killed and lose belts and soulight.
/edit if these types of pkers think the game is too carebear then how about they make it not so carebear with belt drops in warzones. These types of pkers are stupid gutless carebear pkers it is them that is the carebear tbh They want to lose nothing for there actions. So they take it to places like CRP were they can kill as many greens without losing a thing and piss off people constantly
for the belt drop to be even thought about by KK, fix the FRE's first, because you probably see more FRE's coming out of the UG during a fight then any other fight in the game.
I like the belt dropping idea it would stop the stupid gutless allied pkers who kill there own faction at places like CRP, get killed and losing nothing. Then simply comming back and continue killing peeps that are only trying to lvl, it has got to stop. I'd be ok with this sort of behavour of killing noobs but there not losing a damn thing doing it, so it is lame and gutless and there are people who think allied killing in the city is bad. At least in the city they can be hunted down killed and lose belts and soulight.
/edit if these types of pkers think the game is too carebear then how about they make it not so carebear with belt drops in warzones. These types of pkers are stupid gutless carebear pkers it is them that is the carebear tbh They want to lose nothing for there actions. So they take it to places like CRP were they can kill as many greens without losing a thing and piss off people constantly
Rofl,
Im not for belt drop in warzone, but I do have an alternative remove all hunting areas from warzones, no mobs, no caves, nada if people wanna go hunt without the risk of loosing anything go use an LE, the biggest thing with CRP is that you get hunting parties that go there cus their afraid of loosing crap, tbh thats a bit carebearish
Rofl,
Im not for belt drop in warzone, but I do have an alternative remove all hunting areas from warzones, no mobs, no caves, nada if people wanna go hunt without the risk of loosing anything go use an LE, the biggest thing with CRP is that you get hunting parties that go there cus their afraid of loosing crap, tbh thats a bit carebearish You also get pker wannabes that go there and kill greens who happen to be peoples nooblets, so they log there mains and chase the stupid stealthing rifle spy around for 1 hour. Then after they have killed him he is back again 10 mins later because he lost jack shit and is able to poke him self, he don't even lose SL for it. Well the soulight thing is good its a warzone but no belt drop sucks
I'm not really bothered who it is killing me but when there able to come straight back and do it again and again for most of the day. I kind of pisses people off not only the pking the op wars are stupid aswell if you kill a defender there able to GR right back into the op and get pokes and 5 mins later come running back out.
Its stupid
Its stupid
Yup.
Put the lvling areas in non-warzones.
I fear the belt drop point could quickly steamroller this thread of other interesting ideas... for what its worth I don't agree with dropping belts in Op zones, as it would stop people coming to fight, especially against perceived zergs. Not to mention that PPUs (especially pro city ones) would always drop something critical to them, unlike other classes who only need one major item in their inventory.
With all of these threads popping up like this one in the last few days, I think you are seeing a need from the put upon players of Neocron to get some high level content (ie Ops and Roleplay) changes into the game as soon as possible, since the past few months were reserved for working on the newb experience prior to international release.
Its time to work on the end-game, my KK friends (alongside the bugs and fatals of course ;) )
Civil_Unit
08-06-05, 18:09
i
Scenario:
Small clan takes OP from Big clan in a fairly even fight. Small clan fights to defend said OP for hours and eventually is exhausted from fighting for hours, fighting alts, fighting ppl they've already killed over and over - have jobs, have lives, have to log. They log, the Big clan with loggable hackers retakes the OP with ease. If the LOSING clan lost items, actually lost ANYTHING other than condition on their armor, then they'd think about coming back over and over and the better fighting clan would rightfully get the OP for awhile. However, even in the case that the Small clan attempts to take the OP then loses to the Big clan - then THEY have lost stuff and will think twice about attacking it again - reliquishing the OP to still, the rightful owners.
Doesn't that make sense?
See here is the thing, i dont think there should be anything wrong with a smaller clan owning an OP, if they fight for it well and are seperoir fighters why should a bigger clan who just has more people online then them have the right to sit on it?
shouldnt owning more ground require more effort? right now no one ever puts down turrets or any investment into an op. they just hack em back when the clan goes offline. it should take resources, time, effort and money. maybe a small clan who is skilled can hang onto a single base without a problem. a bigger clan could hang onto maybe 5 outposts, but it would take allot of effort.
so this should be reversed. if you wanna live large you gotta play hard, if your strong enough to defeat a clan and then rebuild and hold an OP. thats different, any moron can hack the thing with no defences...you as the big clan should be paying the price.
of course this would mean a smaller clan jut can run around at 4 am and take 6 bases. which i think the larger clans would agree is stupid anyways.
- Reform UG Entrance Placement to minimize the ability of Area Damage Spamming the entrance
Hmm, how about one or two "backdoor" from the underground that lead to different parts in the sector.
- Content Addition of at least One Turret Tower :) (Tower Model + Reveler and/or Rhino Gunner Code)
yup, it should be possible to access that from the underground and it would be nice to shoot the underground entrance. if zoning from the underground into a "fixed" VHC is a problem put that thing on a bunker (on surface) that is only reachable from the underground.
- Content Addition of new Strategic Positions surrounding each OP to promote usage of classes OTHER than Monks (i.e. semi-fortified areas for vehicles, landing strips for aircrafts, towers/forts for spies/PEs, sandbagged/stone wall areas for tanks/snipers - not all for each OP, but one or two features at each OP)
thats a hard one. there is to much stuff in that dont work right. it really dosnt matter if you are behind any walls for all those instant aim monks.
another big problem is that there is no good weapon that fires in an arc over an obstacle.
there should be more funktions to maintain in an outpost. the manned turrets, energy generators, construction/research equipment ... destroyable so ppl need to care about stuff. if that stuff is destroyed the op bonus is gone or the op become neutral.
it would be cool if it was possible to "launch" a drone into an underground of an outpost.
- Content Addition of 3 new Lab zones, 2 closer to Neocron City :) bringing the total of Labs to 9, just like Factories to F_02,A_10, and either C_05 or K_08 (K_08 would be an Aircraft required OP :D)
Hmm,how about outpost upgrades. but like before destroyable somewhere in the outpostzone.
- Implementation of "Homecourt Advantage" Bonuses at Non-Outposts for combat runners....
i think a supply chain malus is better. if no allied OP is near 3 sectors you get (i.e.) less hacking or gunning skill because the lack of moral.
there should be placeable objects like barrels or sand bag walls in an op zone. yes and they should block entrances and are destroyable by VHC guns.
€:
and dont forget the freakin water outposts. Just put some "sunken" structures into the water like the tower that is west of krupp or east of McPherson.yes you can not land gliders on structure but carriers and bombers work.
The way I see it, if we start making the reqs for gaining an op and holding more difficult we'll just end up with large merged clans consisting of the majority of the servers players with a viable intrest in ops, this will kill any storyline off aswell as any role play which is a bad thing. The two key area's I think with ops are that hacking is far to easy and someway needs to be made more complex, and that the monk apu/ppu team needs to be nerfed in someway as opwars are most definately sqewed by that class.
The way I see it, if we start making the reqs for gaining an op and holding more difficult we'll just end up with large merged clans consisting of the majority of the servers players with a viable intrest in ops...
Maybe we don't play on the same server. How is that different than now? Only the huge clans own OPs on Terra - Any clan <100 can't keep an OP and if they manage to hack it, it's taken back when they are scarce in number by the bigger clans because they're online and bored.
Obsidian X
08-06-05, 19:07
I do like these ideas -FN-, I would also agree to Belt Drops in warzones, if they worked like Dog Tags. That is, Belts don't drop if you're killed primarily by a mob, a runner has to do the majority of the damage. This would allow people to PvM in warzones, but if a runner kills them, they drop a belt with the dogtag.
The way I see it, if we start making the reqs for gaining an op and holding more difficult we'll just end up with large merged clans....
hmm, i think the 3 hacker rule is much bigger problem them putting more options to OP wars.
if we have other targets them just hack the OP i think there would be more different ppl needed to maintain the outposts.
more objectives to an op would be good throw in things like a damageable generator that supplies power to the UG gr and turrets, then another generator that supplies top side turrets with power, that can be taken out and must be reconstructed (by csters) before an op becomes fully functional again aswell as things like manable gun towers that are also tied into the generator thats for the topside turrets aswell as other things like a camera system accessible from the UG to see whats going on topside along with anti vhc and anti personel mines, and ffs, anti air/vhc turrets need to be added to the list of placeable turrets in game. This is going to create a wide variety of solutions to opwars for example,
the generators you can leave them alone but then the defending clan has all its turrets and UG gr online (perhaps tie a combat bonus into one of the Generators which is lost when it goes offline) they'd still switch over when you finished the hack but if you blow them you must rebuild them before you actually have the op at 100%, or you could rebuild them before you complete the hack and gain control of the turrets and UG gr before you completed the hack and begin raiding the UG via the gr early and the turrets would start firing on hostiles in the op while you still hacking.
Turret towers your as static as a tree but u can pack a punch and you have the advantage of a good feild of view, imagine taking out a generator then rebuilding it then climbing into a rocket turret tower overlooking the UG while the rest of your team completes the hack... AOE Turret + UG Slaughter :D.
Mines cmon this has to be a must for ops lay some of these down a massive zerg force comes rushing in and cus everyones careless and rushing about they go boom, placement rules would have to be inplace to prevent spamming but its dooable, same goes for vech mines, anti personel would be instakills while anti vhcs wouldn't be so that would actually encourage use of vhcs when attacking ops and use of battlefeild reppers. Some new skill may be needed to help locate mines but im sure something in game can be adapted to fit that.
I go back and highlight the point about attaching the UG gr to a Topside generator.... this would solve alot of problems mainly people just releasing to the UG getting poked and going back up... im not saying prevent GRing to the area just the clan would have to go via the normal gr as soon as that Generator went down, they'd still be able to enter the UG etc.
Also see my other post on brainpost somewhere in one of the op revision posts about airborne ops this would make things really intresting.
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