View Full Version : Bass Ackwards
(long stream of expletives deleted) I don't want to tell you (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=125714) what our faction is doing. I want you to tell me what our faction is doing! I'm not having a hard time keeping up with what other runners are doing in the game; that's easy, there are plenty of tools for that. Hell's bells, if nothing else I can just pop into the Alliance chat channel every day and ask, "What's new?" Then I glance at the Faction display on the World Map, and I'm golden. We already have a forum for player-written stories about themselves. I don't need another place to hear about player characters. I want to know what the non-player characters are doing, especially my own management!
Admit it. You have so few people working on the ongoing storyline that you have given up on providing storyline content for any one faction, let alone all of them. Now there's only pro-CA content and pro-TG content.
I have been waiting since Neocron Two Day One to find out what in merry hell Veronique Duchamps, or anybody in Tsunami Syndicate management, thinks the current role of the Syndicate is, and what we should be doing about it. I have been waiting with variable degrees of patience for almost that long for them to show up in any way, to provide us with anything actually useful for our faction, to throw us a single freaking bone. We have no purpose, we have no advantages, we do not appear in the storyline at any point. And we're not the only ones.
What the hell is Diamond Real Estate for, any more? What the hell is the Crahn Sect doing; are we supposed to take the Temple of Cleaning Fire thing as a clue to future content, or was that a one-off? What the hell is the real point of ProtoPharm any more? And for crying out loud, you want to talk the most screwed over, do the CityMercs still exist for any reason other than to be mall security guards and punching bags for the TG?
I'm not surprised you don't have week to week news for all twelve factions. But would you at least once per major content push like the last one ask the storyline team to write a short message for this forum about the twelve factions? Either send it to the faction elected representatives, or post it in public, but all I'm asking for is one or two sentences per faction: Here is what your senior NPC management thinks about the last month(s), and here's what they want their runners to be concentrating on until further notice.
All because they asked for runner input. They asked for runners to get involved. Wow!
To involve runners and expect a certain level of pro-activity, does not in any way replace a continous storyline & developement of the factions. I agree with everything the threadstarter has pointed out there... player submissions are really weak as well currently, but players need to be given a frame to fill out imho. http://neocron.jafc.de/images/icons/icon14.gif
You can't tell me with a straight face that they want player input. We bury them in player input. They have enough player input to keep them busy for the next dozen years.
If what you mean by "player input" is they want us to write storyline for them, then aKe'cj has it exactly right - we need a frame to fit our characters into. Letting players pick their own storylines, invent them from scratch, write them, and have them published under any kind of semi-official imprimus only encourages runners to think that they're the most important people in the game world - instead of mind-wiped political criminals and thugs being used as disposable, deniable illegal combatants by 12 different powerful corporations and political parties.
Because if you want me to report what my character sees? He sees an absolute total power vacuum. Ronald Rodriguez has been neither seen nor heard from in at last two weeks, and isn't even answering his email any more. Susan Swift hasn't been seen or heard from since her fiance was killed, and that was also several weeks ago. In the last three years, Lioon Reza has issued maybe three statements and had one public appearance, and that's three more statements and one more public appearance than any other CEO or faction leader has made. I see a couple of NPC paper pushers in a tiny little office, handing out the same shit jobs day after day, not one of which has anything to do with any plot development more recent than two years ago when the Black Dragon/ProtoPharm deals were going down and Tangent and Biotech were both bidding on the Copbot upgrades.
Where in the hell is everybody, and if there are people in these cities that are so powerful that they can have any one of us snuffed like a candle on a whim, why aren't they having any measurable, perceptible effect on the world?
IMO the story died long before NC2 came around
KK took the easy way out (as did Funcom with AO's story) and basically stopped developing the story in game and simply evolved the story out of the game (in Funcoms case on the AO web site, in KKs case via Neocronical emails/ forum posts etc)
The ironic thing was I came to NC from AO mainly because NC actually had a story going on in game.....
For me the factions died when Neocron 2 launched and we went red=dead simplicity of Neocron and Dome of York.
Before that we had a nice web of intrigue, and faction comflicts accross the map were intriguing as factions helped some but not their allies, it was an added dimension that got removed.
I would much rather KK had created a Dome of York faction (and a couple others) with Neocron 2, and left factions like Tsunami and TG where they were, because the conflict inside the city was always preffereable to the allied pking we now see daily.
Cause and effect, but I'm afraid its too late to go back now, the only solution for me would be to somehow implement flexible faction switches that KK can regularly change so that, for instance, tsunami can go to war against black dragon without soulight loss. This would give them the ammunition to create meaningful plotlines in the story that actually impacts players day to day experience. Something like that would be good for KK's events team and good for the players too.
What I am saying is that, as usual, all roads lead back to the coding and (lack of) flexibility in the game's rules. The story comes from that.
However, this still does not excuse in my opinion the event GM's doing fun things like creating actual VIP characters to roleplay as and directing the players around, giving us a reason to play, and a reason to kill.
Jesterthegreat
07-06-05, 13:35
faction info from the point of view of clans / runners is a good thing...
maybe you can pay a GM to spend his time stalking clans to find out whats going on... but i would prefer a real persons perspective.
there some reason this shouldnt happen? even VENOM has a politics guy (currently me, but since we barely play we are going to rearange the clan a little)
I think this all started near the end of the fc system when it became obvious that kk wanted to surrender faction control to the players through increased importance of the chairman - and now moc - roles. Perhaps this was in the interests of freedom, but as mmorpgs go, i dont want a sims-like sandbox environment, i want a story driven experience that is influenced by player actions, not reliant on them.
And hey, im no mind-wiped political criminal.. Thats just crazy propaganda talk. Or is it? You cant blame players for making things up in the absence of available background material.. But the fact is, they shouldnt have to.
Dribble Joy
07-06-05, 16:50
Multiserver games like this will find it very difficult to implement player based actions into any overall storyline and even if you do, conflicts and acusations of favoritism will quickly arise.
And hey, im no mind-wiped political criminal.. Thats just crazy propaganda talk. Or is it?I think it's the only reasonable inference from the MC5 quests. I wouldn't mind having this elaborated on or clarified further by Reakktor, though, but here's where I got it and how I read it.
If you play through the malfunctioning sentrybot quest in beginner MC5 from both the pro-Reza and the anti-Reza side, you find out that you were brought into MC5, thoroughly brainwashed (which I assume explains why you can't draw weapons in safe zones even though NPCs can, and why you hear a Copbot yelling at you when you try even if there isn't one around), partially mindwiped so you wouldn't remember being in MC5 or why you were brought there, and implanted with a chip that was supposed to make you mindlessly loyal to City Admin. The only reason that the loyalty part doesn't work is that hackers from the Twilight Guardians or the Fallen Angels, who infilitrated MC5 disguised as the cleaning crew, have introduced their own computer viruses in the system that programs the "Law Enforcement" chips.
I'd have to go back through the scripts line by line, but I think I remember a hint being dropped by one of the NPCs in MC5 that you got "nominated" for this surgery because CityAdmin considered you dangerous before, which I read as "criminal," whether political or dangerous.
I think it's the only reasonable inference from the MC5 quests. I wouldn't mind having this elaborated on or clarified further by Reakktor, though, but here's where I got it and how I read it.
If you play through the malfunctioning sentrybot quest in beginner MC5 from both the pro-Reza and the anti-Reza side, you find out that you were brought into MC5, thoroughly brainwashed (which I assume explains why you can't draw weapons in safe zones even though NPCs can, and why you hear a Copbot yelling at you when you try even if there isn't one around), partially mindwiped so you wouldn't remember being in MC5 or why you were brought there, and implanted with a chip that was supposed to make you mindlessly loyal to City Admin. The only reason that the loyalty part doesn't work is that hackers from the Twilight Guardians or the Fallen Angels, who infilitrated MC5 disguised as the cleaning crew, have introduced their own computer viruses in the system that programs the "Law Enforcement" chips.
I'd have to go back through the scripts line by line, but I think I remember a hint being dropped by one of the NPCs in MC5 that you got "nominated" for this surgery because CityAdmin considered you dangerous before, which I read as "criminal," whether political or dangerous.
If you link the tutorial to MC5 you get more of the picture, your a special agent for, taking a guess here, the Twilight Gaurdian as at the end you are shot to crap by the elite stormbots working on an abandoned computer terminal in the outzone, you are then taken to the MC5 facility to be 'fixed' which is when you wake up in MC5, either deppending on your faction as a Reeza loving maniac who is told to help out the technictians or being shunned by all MC5 personel as they know you havnt been wiped properly hopeing you'll wander out into the wastes and be finished off good a proper which is when you leave and find the cleaning guys who fill you in on whats going on, how the City Admin has been messing with you and their virus
Jesterthegreat
07-06-05, 19:16
DAoC tired it.
the players didnt effect the overall storyline, but say a noob delivered the orders to ag uard and told them to go to the wrong place... that effected the next part of that storyline.
say some group of mobs took over a dungeon... they would stay there on your server til your server got rid of them.
wasn't completely player effected... but it made a difference.
Thing is, NC2 really is a lot more based on cities than factions.
We agree that there is room to involve the individual factions a little more though - in fact I've been dealing with this very issue for 2 weeks now (WIP).
I'll see if I can get up a list of all Ceres-Project Members (RP-chars) for you, including their faction-alignment. Hopefully this will make contact ingame easier - especially concerning faction news. Your primary (rp-)contacts are the reporters, followed by the JobDealers and finally the DAL or Govenors (keep in mind, they are more focussed on city proceedings, rather than individual factions).
There is also the option of electing a good faction council - make sure yours is active!
The faction councils and the Ceres-team are to work closely together (I am aware this does not look too good for the DOY-side atm - we are lacking active & comitted faction councils).
As you can see, the current system differs quite a lot from the old FC approach (NC1) - still there are numerous people to talk to. In case of further questions, feel free to ask.
@Jester (from the other thread): Yes, Vincent Starck took care of the Mercs - unfortunately, since last week, he is no longer engaged :(
This leaves CM without a particular contact - but reporters from both cities are to look after the faction and pose as contacts for you guys as well (detailed info provided with the listing).
/edit This is the answer for the closed thread too
Jesterthegreat
07-06-05, 20:25
@Jester (from the other thread): Yes, Vincent Starck took care of the Mercs - unfortunately, since last week, he is no longer engaged :(
This leaves CM without a particular contact - but reporters from both cities are to look after the faction and pose as contacts for you guys as well (detailed info provided with the listing).
*sigh* is there some way of applying for it... or are we expected to somehow here about events from other people talking on alliance channels we can't hear?
*sigh* is there some way of applying for it... or are we expected to somehow here about events from other people talking on alliance channels we can't hear?
For applying of a job (Reporter) of the ceres team is the old known way :
chenoa@reakktor.com
CMs are very welcome !!!!
Rules:
- more then 4 month neocron (most of you have i know)
- 21 years old
Rest via mail
Thing is, NC2 really is a lot more based on cities than factions. ...As I just said in the more recent thread on this subject, if only CA and TG NPCs are ever going to be seen in public, and only CA and TG are ever going to have any storylines, then why not just remove the other 10 factions in patch 135?
Jesterthegreat
07-06-05, 23:31
For applying of a job (Reporter) of the ceres team is the old known way :
chenoa@reakktor.com
CMs are very welcome !!!!
Rules:
- more then 4 month neocron (most of you have i know)
- 21 years old
Rest via mail
it'll have to wait til march then... i'm not 21 yet.
i just about manage the 4 months though :p
I'd have to go back through the scripts line by line, but I think I remember a hint being dropped by one of the NPCs in MC5 that you got "nominated" for this surgery because CityAdmin considered you dangerous before, which I read as "criminal," whether political or dangerous.
An interesting (but I suppose off-topic) part of this thread because I got all that from my occasional visits to MC5 (well I've got four character slots now, so I might as well experiment with the other three).. but the whole thing doesnt quite work for me simply because there was a time - quite a long time of course - where there was no MC5. People just woke up in their apartments, LE chip in their head, and went about their business. Sure, you could come up with a dozen reasons for why that might have happened, but without a clear indication, it's fair to say that the oldest of characters could have come from anywhere. Besides, people had to be around to design the Law Enforcer and MC5, and actually enforce the bag-and-tag process to put people through it, and those people must have had childeren. I like to think that the oldest survivng characters come from a different period in NC's history, where anti-NC and pro-NC fought because they wanted to, not because of mental conditioning :)
Jesterthegreat
07-06-05, 23:49
An interesting (but I suppose off-topic) part of this thread because I got all that from my occasional visits to MC5 (well I've got four character slots now, so I might as well experiment with the other three).. but the whole thing doesnt quite work for me simply because there was a time - quite a long time of course - where there was no MC5. People just woke up in their apartments, LE chip in their head, and went about their business. Sure, you could come up with a dozen reasons for why that might have happened, but without a clear indication, it's fair to say that the oldest of characters could have come from anywhere. Besides, people had to be around to design the Law Enforcer and MC5, and actually enforce the bag-and-tag process to put people through it, and those people must have had childeren. I like to think that the oldest survivng characters come from a different period in NC's history, where anti-NC and pro-NC fought because they wanted to, not because of mental conditioning :)
RP-wise it could simply be that the effects were strong enough back then that you weren't aware of being released... and you only have the memory of waking up in your apt one day.
I thought about that, but if that were the case, everyone coming out of a MC5 at that stage (or a prototype MC5 as the one we know didn't exist on the map) would have been happy go lucky pro-city types, but clearly they weren't. So if they were still being brainwashed, anti-NC factions must have already been throwing in a virus to cock up the process even then, and if that were the case, everyone in an anti-NC faction would have known about it, as well as the location of this proto-MC5 :)
RP-wise it could simply be that the effects were strong enough back then that you weren't aware of being released... and you only have the memory of waking up in your apt one day.Just the point I was going to make -- and have made in a role-playing context. Whenever someone tells me that they were never in MC5, I tell them that they only think they've never been in MC5, that it's only been for a little over a year now that our saboteurs made it possible for people to wake up in MC5 and remember doing so.
Just the point I was going to make -- and have made in a role-playing context. Whenever someone tells me that they were never in MC5, I tell them that they only think they've never been in MC5, that it's only been for a little over a year now that our saboteurs made it possible for people to wake up in MC5 and remember doing so.
Re: My point above :)
Fact is, we can't prove one way or another, because in an RP context, no attempt was made to explain it.
Jesterthegreat
07-06-05, 23:59
I thought about that, but if that were the case, everyone coming out of a MC5 at that stage (or a prototype MC5 as the one we know didn't exist on the map) would have been happy go lucky pro-city types, but clearly they weren't. So if they were still being brainwashed, anti-NC factions must have already been throwing in a virus to cock up the process even then, and if that were the case, everyone in an anti-NC faction would have known about it, as well as the location of this proto-MC5 :)
the proccess could have failed just as much... it just effected your memory more in the past compared to now.
Heh, still not buying it. Too many questions that cant be answered :)
Jesterthegreat
08-06-05, 00:01
Heh, still not buying it. Too many questions that cant be answered :)
theres a mysterious facility wiping peoples minds... and you dont buy it cos they dont tell you all the info? :p
Heh heh, I take your point, but I'm talking about meta-game stuff now, not in game questions ;)
For me the factions died when Neocron 2 launched and we went red=dead simplicity of Neocron and Dome of York.
Before that we had a nice web of intrigue, and faction comflicts accross the map were intriguing as factions helped some but not their allies, it was an added dimension that got removed. I agree with that. F6-politics in NC1 were more interesting than the red vs. green we have now.
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