View Full Version : Stability Issues
Right now there is a major focus on the various stability issues that many people are experiencing. This is largely as a result of your feedback so I'd like to build on that by providing the devs with some more detailed information that may help them to locate and resolve some of the problems. I can't guarantee results at this time because we're still at the data gathering phase.
If you have a login permasync, an incomplete login (e.g. with default stats, no inventory etc.), zone permasync, crash, inventory glitch, slowdown caused by excessive memory use or some other issue, please send an email to bugreport@neocron.com with the subject "Crash Details" and with the following information:
1) Character name & server
2) Type of issue (login permasync, incomplete login, zone permasync, crash, inventory glitch, slowdown or other)
3) Date and time the issue occurred (please be as accurate as possible but if you're not sure of the time just say "evening", "morning" etc. Also, please either post your times in GMT or clearly state your timezone! ;)
4) The zone you were in when the problem occurred(e.g. OZ-4, J_01 etc.) as well as the zone you were trying to enter (if applicable)
5) Your physical location (e.g. "Houston, USA", not "in my bedroom" :p )
6) The name of your internet service provider
7) Your connection type (56K modem, 1Mb broadband etc.)
8) What other network apps were running at the time (e.g. Vent, a second NC etc.)
9) A brief description of what happened or any other supporting information.
10) Which NC2 DirectX driver you're using (DX7 or DX9)
11) A description of your graphics card/driver and sound card
12) An attachment containing your most recent Error and Callstack log files from your logs folder.
If you don't have some of the information then please send the report with what you have. We're not suddenly going to say "don't use Vent" so please be honest here - we need to know if it's a bandwidth problem so saying you have a 500Kb broadband connection doesn't help when you've got 3 NCs running, you're chatting on Vent and downloading porn all at the same time. ;)
Part of the information I'm gathering is how often these problems occur so I'd appreciate a mail each time if possible. You don't need to attach callstacks etc. on every one so it might be an idea to keep a copy of the mail in your "drafts" folder ready to re-use if you think you're likely to need it again.
Finally, I realise that we've asked for this information in the past but the game's come on a long way since then and we need more up to date information. Your help is really appreciated.
Thanks.
N
[TgR]KILLER
01-06-05, 20:07
1 question tho. when you have more bugs at once you can just fill in the form thing and put all bugs in a list or something ?
i meen sometimes i login without probs. sometimes i sync 1 time ( i don't really care ) but sometimes i perma sync / right click / etc time after time before i can log in normally.
what about including the server as well? ..otherwise I dont see a purpose of checking the char-name + time :angel:
Put them in one mail if you like. I've added server. ;)
N
Jesterthegreat
01-06-05, 21:16
get a pen and paper, write them down, send the mail at the end of your gaming time.
that way you wont be emailing them every 5 mins ;)
Clearly state the exact number of occurrences though and please don't exaggerate. If you tell me that you had to relog 50 times in 2 minutes I'm not going to be able to do anything with that information.
N
Jesterthegreat
01-06-05, 22:20
Clearly state the exact number of occurrences though and please don't exaggerate. If you tell me that you had to relog 50 times in 2 minutes I'm not going to be able to do anything with that information.
N
we all know that 50 times is usually spread over multiple minutes! ;)
when i get an issue i'll report it
:edit: by "some other issue" does that mean every single bug we get?
No, I'm just interested in the biggies right now.
N
Jesterthegreat
01-06-05, 22:28
No, I'm just interested in the biggies right now.
N
hmm... repeatative "little" bugs can be just as show stopping as "biggies"
Dribble Joy
01-06-05, 22:31
I know I keep banging on about this, but is there some form of investigation going to ever happen about what happened between closed and open beta about the mem leak that appeared then?
I am clearly not a dev, but why can't they 'rollback' to the gfx code they used previously?
hmm... repeatative "little" bugs can be just as show stopping as "biggies"
let them start somewhere and advance from there.. doing too much at once results in being so busy doing things that you dont get anything done at all.
/edit: and I agree to DJ, closed beta was the most stable and enjoyable performance I experienced..ever
Jesterthegreat
01-06-05, 22:34
let them start somewhere and advance from there.. doing too much at once results in being so busy doing things that you dont get anything done at all. even if they only act on the most common ones... all the data being collected now seems like a better idea to me, thats all :p
/edit: and I agree to DJ, closed beta was the most stable and enjoyable performance I experienced..ever
roger that
even if they only act on the most common ones... all the data being collected now seems like a better idea to me, thats all :p
I disagree completely ... if the data was machine-readable, ok.. but this way, more data requires a lot more evaluation effort. What's a good survey w/o proper evaluation? right.. a pile of worthless shi.. data.
I disagree completely ... if the data was machine-readable, ok.. but this way, more data requires a lot more evaluation effort. What's a good survey w/o proper evaluation? right.. a pile of worthless shi.. data.
I'm not sure how a machine is going to read "a brief description of what happened or any other supporting information". Besides, if it was one of our machines it would probably crash half way through. ;)
N
Very very nice to see this happening. Hopefuly in a month or so we will see some of the info we sent in being used to fix some long time bugs :).
I'm not sure how a machine is going to read "a brief description of what happened or any other supporting information". Besides, if it was one of our machines it would probably crash half way through. ;)
N
Too avoid misunderstandings.. let me put it like this:
As long as it is not possible to have an automated evaluation, it does make sense to focus on a few big issues, rather than having too much in it, which slows down the process of evaluation (by hand). I've read somewhere (cant be arsed to look for the exact post/link right now, sry) arround here, that an automated survey on FREs has indeed been done already - but it showed the statistics alone didnt do the job. Therefor I welcome this approach, to focus on as much as possible - but, as little as necessary to guarantee a proper evaluation. I didnt expect this survey to be interpreted automaticly, nor would I prefer it. :)
john irons
02-06-05, 00:37
im very pleased to see that kk are gona try to nail this f@@ker once and for all.
nice
Let's give them some times to gather stuff,
I think that its going to get some time to fix all mem leak...
The base of the prog is very heavy to load. :confused:
Anyway if all runner are helping out, surely they will get some major fix. :cool:
So let's all help out, and do our part of the deal. so that after we can play and have fun, and hopefuly with less bugs. O_o
Let's the game of debuging begin :D
Runner's united debuging services coming up :p
May Crahn guide you to the light's of knowledge :angel:
Lorghon
woudlnt it be much easyer if we could set up a website/database where u can upload the details all into a prebuilt form that is stored sumwhere u can access instead of just spamming u with the (soon to be millions) emails ur about to get ;)
cant be that hard like? then u could have all information set to a data base and arange it by times and so on see if ppl are syncing at teh same time and so on :S muhc easyer to view all the information than sifting through emails to
just a though
It's something I considered, but there were a couple of issues with it:
1) Trying to get the system built will take more time out of DaFire's already crammed schedule
2) No one likes to fill out forms.
3) I might review this once I get a better idea of the quantity and quality of data ;)
N
Dr Strange
02-06-05, 02:08
What about Fatal Runtime Errors and the C++ Runtimes?
Those are a tad more critical to the stability than the permasyncs, imo.
Jesterthegreat
02-06-05, 02:10
If you have a login permasync, an incomplete login (e.g. with default stats, no inventory etc.), zone permasync, crash, inventory glitch, slowdown caused by excessive memory use or some other issue, please send an email to bugreport@neocron.com with the subject "Crash Details" and with the following information:
crash...
fatal...
What about Fatal Runtime Errors and the C++ Runtimes?
Those are a tad more critical to the stability than the permasyncs, imo.
that would be classed as a 'crash' id imagine.
Dribble Joy
02-06-05, 02:15
Stability on two fronts really. Code/gfx and server/connectivity.
Dr Strange
02-06-05, 02:45
Ah
the word "crash" was kinda hidden in there heh..
Do we submit an email once, or every time something happens?
In the last 30 minutes I've had 8 permasyncs and 2 fatals..
I'm gonna be a killjoy here and say I get a 'game-restart-requiring' bug maybe once every 50 logins. Seriously.
Cleveland, Ohio
WOW! Internet
3000/512 cable
ATI Radeon 9600SE - Set for 'Quality'
nVidia onboard sound (DX9 compatible)
Win98SE - latest drivers for most stuff
I really don't know why I don't crash, even on my old comp and in NC1 it was the same. I only ever fataled at Cycrow.
1) Character name & server
> Ts-Imperium - Terra
2) Type of issue (login permasync, incomplete login, zone permasync, crash, inventory glitch, slowdown or other)
- Repeated Crashes
3) Date and time the issue occurred (please be as accurate as possible but if you're not sure of the time just say "evening", "morning" etc. Also, please either post your times in GMT or clearly state your timezone! ;)
- (-5 EST) ~10:00 PM EST...00:00 Game Time (not server time!)
4) The zone you were in when the problem occurred(e.g. OZ-4, J_01 etc.) as well as the zone you were trying to enter (if applicable)
- Simmons...what sector is that?
5) Your physical location (e.g. "Houston, USA", not "in my bedroom" :p )
- In my bedroom :p at Kissimmee, FL
6) The name of your internet service provider
- Brighthouse communications
7) Your connection type (56K modem, 1Mb broadband etc.)
- 5mbps Cable behind a Linksys Router
8) What other network apps were running at the time (e.g. Vent, a second NC etc.)
- TeamSpeak
9) A brief description of what happened or any other supporting information.
- It turned to 00:00. The game crashed. Game doesn't crash if I'm in TH and the timer hits 00:00. Also, the game does not crash if I'm in a zone that does not have anything going on (such as fighting)
10) Which NC2 DirectX driver you're using (DX7 or DX9)
- DirectX 9
11) A description of your graphics card/driver and sound card
- Graphics Card nVidia GeForce 6600 GT - Version 66.81
- Audio Card built in
12) An attachment containing your most recent Error and Callstack log files from your logs folder.
- Sorry, had to format about 8 hours ago.
Its not that hard to read Nid's post so why are people reporting in this thread?
I wasn't reporting, I was bragging. Um... oops. :p
Is this some kind of hidden crash/fatal theme-week?
What about Fatal Runtime Errors and the C++ Runtimes?
Those are a tad more critical to the stability than the permasyncs, imo.
For some of us it takes 12-20 logins to clear up the bug. I get it every time I switch characters (along with many other players). It makes it impossible to play.
I guess they figure that players that can at least get in the game and play before seeing an error are more likely to tolerate it.
As it stands right now (during hours of say 8am EST -> 3pm EST) the game works fine. Once the server load reaches 15-20% things go to hell and it continues to get progressively worse until the weeeee hours of the morning.
Ts-Imperium on Terra. Leaving any Neofrag...
Worldclient Proxy Connection failed EVERY Time.
Have people just ignored the bit that says
e-mail your issues dont post them here?
Jesterthegreat
03-06-05, 01:00
he's also ignored our subtle hints at his lack of reading :p
emails are a bitch :D like i said we need a site, since the devs dont wana cut up there time lets nominate sumbody to do it, erm, i nominate -FN-
all in favor
ME
all agains
...
motion carried 1 to 0 :D get working -FN-
Emails are a bitch to do. I just spent the last 30 minutes trying to login without problems. Got many Synchs , many inventory problems, and finally I think I got it ok.. and I can't right-click or use ANYTHING! GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The results of this study will be entirely driven by emails that match the format given at the top of this thread.
N
If you have a login permasync, an incomplete login (e.g. with default stats, no inventory etc.), zone permasync, crash, inventory glitch, slowdown caused by excessive memory use or some other issue, please send an email to bugreport@neocron.com with the subject "Crash Details" and with the following information:
N
Hate 2 sound like a nooby but whats a login permasync, zone permasync exacly?
login permasync
when u login and u see the syncronizing in your gamewindow
zone permasync
same after you going into another zone
(both with/without you seeing the envirement)
Original monk
07-06-05, 15:53
Hate 2 sound like a nooby but whats a login permasync, zone permasync exacly?
hiya (and welcome) Mike ! (hehe, my names also mike)
these are the 2 things you dont wonna see (permanent synching and zonesynching), you will get used to the -synchronising- screen soon enough :)
have fun playing neocron :)
enigma_b17
08-06-05, 13:48
Synchronizing is takin AGESSSSSSSSSSSSS.........on terra.
Hang on....Havn't we been doing this for the last 2 years?
....
Ok so how's it looking NiddyKong ?
Right now there is a major focus on the various stability issues that many people are experiencing.
F I N A L LY
I already sent one email but I just want to say take any character and lvl for 1 hour or more in the sewers killing rats in plaza 1. When you exit you will almost always FRE nothing to do with the memory leak.
when u login and u see the syncronizing in your gamewindow
same after you going into another zone
(both with/without you seeing the envirement)
oo cool ty netster
hiya (and welcome) Mike ! (hehe, my names also mike)
these are the 2 things you dont wonna see (permanent synching and zonesynching), you will get used to the -synchronising- screen soon enough :)
have fun playing neocron :)
thx original monk(or should tht be mike hehe) i have
Heavyporker
16-06-05, 16:25
Guys... I think I see a possible trend - I seem to be a fair bit more prone to permasync logins at the times near 12 noon EST and 12 midnight EST (kinda a 1/2 hour either way) if I login into an apartment or "underground area".
Anyone else noticed this?
Guys... I think I see a possible trend - I seem to be a fair bit more prone to permasync logins at the times near 12 noon EST and 12 midnight EST (kinda a 1/2 hour either way) if I login into an apartment or "underground area".
Anyone else noticed this?
Yes
[5 characters]
Heavyporker
16-06-05, 17:13
considering that I just got 2 permasyncs logging into an apartment now, I guess I got to expand that window - 11am to noon est...
As I mentioned a week or so ago the more people get on the server the worse the problem gets (usually starts to get real bad around 3pm est 15%-20% logged on). Once we hit the low time (late late night) everything goes back to normal.
I get in everywhere... TH, all the plazas, DOY, ops, you name it. O_o
So yea Porker, I would agree. You know full well the devs know what the problem is. They are more than likely having an issue trying to solve it w/o trashing something else. I just wish they would get a move on.
So yea Porker, I would agree. You know full well the devs know what the problem is. They are more than likely having an issue trying to solve it w/o trashing something else. I just wish they would get a move on.
I have to agree. Is seems as though they're tryin double amputations with a pair of tiny needle nose pliars and a spoon. FFS, gedt the goddamn chain saw and get to moving!!!!
As we patch and things get "fixed" the bandaids are creating more holes and more leaks and more issues until by patch 143 er so and shit goes south, perma like. Not to put that out there, but man, I don't know aobut the community, but htis is getting utterly rediculous. Like a HS graduation proiject gone horribly as aexpected from a hand full of sophs thru seniors.
*sigh*
I'm not sure what pisses me off more, the fact that we AGAIN havce more issues added than fixed or the impending feeling that one day soon, i'll jsut stop clickin the lil NC2 icon in my quickstart bar and play spider solitare . . .
:rolleyes:
It just gets soooo bad around mid-night EST it's unplayable.
Last night I had to get in game to pass an item to a friend. Normally I would have given up after my 8th or 9th attempt.. It took me 23 retries to get in and when I had to switch to another guy on another account to give said individual something else it took me 19 retries.
My patients has almost run out. If something doesn't happen soon I guess I will have to join the masses and let my accounts expire hoping that some day they will resolve this non-sense. It's a nightmare trying to play during "US Hours" for so many people.. :(
At least now BF2 is out... :p
Its fukkin sad really.
I haven't logged in in two days for any length of time. It jsut ain't fukkin worth it tbh. I also find it ironic that within a week of KK pushing for feeback and info on client instability they release a patch the virtually destroys playability and enjoyment.
It seems that KK desire to really take care of thier customers is jsut smoke up ones ass. If I told my boss (who is my customer, as he pays me fotr a service provided) the excuses that KK tells me, I'd be fired a long time ago.
I, too, am afriad that my acct will be lapsing into neglect until they ge ttheir heads out of thier asses.
Jesterthegreat
22-06-05, 20:08
It took me 23 retries to get in and when I had to switch to another guy on another account to give said individual something else it took me 19 retries.
and did you report these 42 issues?
i doubt many people do. they are content to whine on here, but also want to sit there saying "It's KK's job to fix it, not mine"
and did you report these 42 issues?
i doubt many people do. they are content to whine on here, but also want to sit there saying "It's KK's job to fix it, not mine"
Log in successfully then check your log files. Then check them when you permasynch, are missing items, etc. The log files are the same.
I think 45% of the problems are database related, and 45% are network connectivity related. As far as the clients think, you're connected and running fine - unless you FRE - in which case, THEN you get usable info in the log files.
Do you guys look at the files you're attaching before you send them? Most of the current issues we're having don't have any data related to them in the log files... so I wonder how this is going to help in the long run :(
Packets need to be traced, Network Traffic heavily monitored, and specific character's data needs to be analyzed when these issues are happening, not after.
is there a point in reporting anything,
when we c nothing is done,
how long will this last?
Promices made, promices broken
Well - I've had no syncs or any of the usual stuff to speak of - just my niggling issue - which I can't put down to NC really.
Although - one problem i do get when I am online is logging off - I often hang while logging my char out, it happens at the end of the countdown.
Also - I am unable to exit the client without crashing ( i assume this is related to the problem I'm suffering but thought I'd mention it in case anyone else had it.) I usually Taskmanager-close it.
Jesterthegreat
22-06-05, 21:58
is there a point in reporting anything,
when we c nothing is done,
how long will this last?
Promices made, promices broken
you dont send cos nothing is fixed.
nothing is fixed cos nothing is sent.
clan a zergs cos clan b zergs.
clan b zergs cos clan a zergs.
it salways the same, a spiral of self destruction.
and did you report these 42 issues?
i doubt many people do. they are content to whine on here, but also want to sit there saying "It's KK's job to fix it, not mine"
Jester wtf Man!
We are paying them after all, and it does mount up to a lot over the months.
Perhaps people should start recording the conversations between the server and the client whilst they play? Because once sent into KK it might yield as to why people get stuck in perma-sync.
Perhaps KK also need to increase the amount of info dumped into the log files, might yield something worhwhile that they could use to fix the phucked up client.
EDIT:
Jester wtf Man!
We are paying them after all, and it does mount up to a lot over the months.
Well, we all know that none of KK's employees ever suffer from any form of problem/fatal/sync, so they can't collect the data on their own. We can't expect that much from them, they brought a game that should still be in beta to retail, didn't they? :rolleyes:
Actually - thats a point - When I get the logout hang issue - I'm unable to call up a log for it =/
Frown.
Jesterthegreat
22-06-05, 22:29
Jester wtf Man!
We are paying them after all, and it does mount up to a lot over the months.
exactly as i thought.
it starts with "nice one kk, finally looking into it" and turns into "i'm not sendin them the info about my crashes... fuck that... they can guess... it's not my fucking job"
followed by complaints on stability no doubt.
to not be self rightious i haven't reported any either... not that i have had many.
Yea but why critise someone's who's had 40+ something problems for not reporting each one. Who wants to pay to do that?
P - Fucking - M's :D
Although I do believe the jest Has a point Mate.
Jesterthegreat
22-06-05, 23:15
Yea but why critise someone's who's had 40+ something problems for not reporting each one. Who wants to pay to do that?
but i wonder if he reported a single one of those ones he mentioned?
tbh not sure why this thread is open if its not to discuss it. and i'm discuccing peoples reactions too it.
since all info has to be sent via email, this must either be here to discuss it or should have been closed from the beginning surely?
and did you report these 42 issues?
i doubt many people do. they are content to whine on here, but also want to sit there saying "It's KK's job to fix it, not mine"
I look through this thread and I keep seeing you say over and over again that "He probably didn't send anything".
I sent in reports of the problem when this thread was created and even normal support tickets before it was created.
I covered the login problems and how emails would appear from the skill manager over and over again after each relog. Many of the times it would cause a fatal when you would try and clear said emails.
Today I received 2 responses from tickets I sent in 3-4 weeks ago. Almost a month later I get responses to these tickets. Real progress, it appears that my router (which I had tried removing when I initially started having the problem) is the problem. :lol: If I had received this response in a timely manner I might have bothered following it up, but wtf is the point when you have to wait almost a whole month for a response.
Sent Date: May 31, 2005 8:23 PM
Response Date: Jun 23, 2005 4:01 AM
:rolleyes:
but i wonder if he reported a single one of those ones he mentioned?
You didn't wonder anything. You had me written off long ago. Next time shut your mouth and keep the conversation on topic.
Jesterthegreat
23-06-05, 19:55
You didn't wonder anything. You had me written off long ago. Next time shut your mouth and keep the conversation on topic.
hmm? discussing the reporting of stability issues in the thread made to ask people to report stability issues is off topic?
i would think chattin about the quality of the support was more off topic personally...
hmm? discussing the reporting of stability issues in the thread made to ask people to report stability issues is off topic?
i would think chattin about the quality of the support was more off topic personally...
LoK pwnd j00, tbh.
after a brief browsing of the thread, you seem to feed the downward spiral of destruction and off-topic chatter more than actively contributing positively to the topic at hand.
Go figure . . .
:rolleyes:
Jesterthegreat
24-06-05, 08:02
LoK pwnd j00, tbh.
after a brief browsing of the thread, you seem to feed the downward spiral of destruction and off-topic chatter more than actively contributing positively to the topic at hand.
Go figure . . .
:rolleyes:
i was keeping on topic, and people were proving me right by replying with things like
is there a point in reporting anything,
when we c nothing is done,
how long will this last?
Promices made, promices broken
and
Jester wtf Man!
We are paying them after all, and it does mount up to a lot over the months.
Jester: the topic of this post is a request for info on anyu and all percieved bugs and irregular/unintended issues ppl experience with the game. Thats it, thats all. Not wether ppl could/would or wouldn't submit info, what percentage of ppl thought KK would use said info, if submitted, nada.
I don't recall every word of each of yer posts, but in the last few, i didn't see any relevant data pertaining to the original request made by OP.
Just an observation . . .
We have received a lot of data that should provide very useful. Most of it is still being evaluated and appropriate fixes are being developed.
For now, we have more than enough to work with, therefore this topic is being closed.
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