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View Full Version : Musings upon the Law Enforcer...



Heavyporker
22-05-05, 19:08
Lately I've been wondering about the LE, or Law Enforcer.

Nifty little thing, isn't it?

No one can deny it's power over the general populace - near-immunity to criminals, far greater security against loss of personal possessions.

I wanted to raise a few things to talk about...

- Why does the Dome of York have so many of its runners outfitted with Law Enforcers? One would think that the Dome would reject CityAdmin technology. Not to mention the CityMercs themselves - a whole faction that prides itself on its distance from any faction in philosophy, not merely physical location.

Perhaps we should consider *NOT* making a LE the default implant for new DoY/CM runners. Yes, this greatly raises their risk, but then again, DoY/CM isn't really for *new* runners. Plus, it creates some actual demand for the Law Enforcer implants sold in the CA fsm.

If this is a bit much for many of us, potentially, the FAs could create a LE-imitation, crappy quality, of course, that'd function the same way as a LE. After all, after coming out of MC5 and disavowing CityAdmin would propel that facility to turn off the LE in one's head, right?

- This no-belt-drop thing, while very nice, certainly, seems a bit much. I know that there was a experience-gain, requirements-increase, and cash-gain penalty for the LE in the past. All of these combined was too much, certainly, I don't think anyone would argue against this. But...

Perhaps CityAdmin could place a cash-tax upon LE-d runners. Just a cash-gain tax, so if they go hunting or take missions, they get just a bit less. Say, 10%. This sounds extremely reasonable to me. KK and the Neocron Economy gets an extra point of cash-sinking, and the LE gains some depth in the issue of Pro/Con to its use.

- There's the /30 no-reimplant thing. There's also the further ramifications of high-level LE'd runner content.

While I applaud this /30 thing, the LE was far too abused back in the day, I have to assert that it's almost ridiculous to see capped 80/60 runners with LEs in. On the flip side, I have to say that it's terrible if someone high-level, down the road, wants to get the LE in for legitmate reasons.

I want to discuss this - it's entirely reasonable that a runner can choose to disavow PvP in the most part (They still have the NeoFrag - acceptable to me). There are some fairly reasonable, but not crippling, disadvantages to having LE in - no clan, no outpost ownership.

However, the LE can be abused to the point of complete lameness. Stealing hacks, seizing control of certain hunting locations, gaining intelligence on the movements of enemies without the pretense of stealthiness or skill.

Could the possibility of having a runner hit /30 automatically pop the LE out, and the CityAdmin coming out with a second type of LE with a higher tolerance for character rank, albeit with different penalties and functions, be feasible?

This second-level LE would only be sold from CA fsm, could have a 25% cash-tax, deactivate in a war-zone (OP-whoring thing, you see), and the NCPD list is closed to them (so someone can't call a LE'd runner in the city and ask them to keep tabs on some criminal), plus something else to make this second-level LE really sting.

You see, the LE has its place, but it needs some real depth to it so it's not so.... skewed and screwed up in it's current application.

Obsidian X
22-05-05, 19:46
Some good points, but if I recall Porker:

- DoY runners have LEs because they undergo the same brainwashing process at MC5 as Neocron runners. DoY citizens however are unsucessfully brainwashed but still have their Law Enforcers. I think. Not sure about Mercs.

And another thing - absolutely no to the cash tax, or any kind of nerf on LEs. Nerfage of LEs causes newbie runners to take their chips out way too early, and I think not being able to be part of a clan and the loss of a brainslot is enough of a nerf as it is. Though I do agree some kind of secondary LE not restricted by skill rank should be implented, and implantable based on SL.

Heavyporker
22-05-05, 19:49
in reply to Obsidian... point one has been answered. And for a newbie, that 10% is only like 10nc off a very easy mission, like 50nc off an easy mission, and if they take down an aggressor captain, that's onl like 45 nc off the max.

10% is not that big a concern, but it's a good thing.

Obsidian X
22-05-05, 20:12
I can understand your tax on the secondary LE chip (non restricted one), as many players have high level LE cash cows and mules. If the high level LE users wore a different kind of LE then I wouldn't have a problem with it. But the basic LE should be nerfed in no way at all - after all, noobs need all the cash they can get from those early missions, right?

Toxen
22-05-05, 20:45
Oh and porker le'ed players can't seize control of hunting area's preventing a reset on a hunting ground using an le'ed player is an insta-ban if caught as per the RoC

Tostino
22-05-05, 20:58
Oh and porker le'ed players can't seize control of hunting area's preventing a reset on a hunting ground using an le'ed player is an insta-ban if caught as per the RoC
You know how hard it is to get a GM there in time to catch them?? Also sending in pics doesnt work because they just say that we just got done clearing the cave and he was just there to lvl o_O (it has happend before)...

Toxen
22-05-05, 21:05
Yar i know how hard it is to prove and yea screenies these days are mostly useless to proving it only way to get around that is to fire up fraps and email kk a nice little movie of them sitting there.

Tostino
22-05-05, 21:18
Yar i know how hard it is to prove and yea screenies these days are mostly useless to proving it only way to get around that is to fire up fraps and email kk a nice little movie of them sitting there.
That doesnt work either, I had a video of FF people siting in a reveler un buffed no heals and being pownded by everyone that was raiding (this was when I was still pro city) and no one in the reveler was taking any damage and the reveler it self could not be damaged but the gunner could shoot us and kill us. When I emailed it to exploits@neocron.com they said that it was not usefull becuase they couldnt see the names properly (I had to get it to under 2mb and I send them the names from the non compressed version in text with the email) they asked for the uncompressed version and I sent it. I get a email back 2 weeks later saying that they cant get files over 2mb with the email server they use so that file I sent cant be looked at for the names, and they couldnt just take my word for who was doing it. So after all that nothing came out of it :lol:.

Heavyporker
22-05-05, 21:32
Tostino, post that image online and just email KK the url to that. Kinda like using something like imageshack or your personal website. Thus the 2mb limit is circumvented.

Tostino
22-05-05, 21:48
It was a video.

Heavyporker
22-05-05, 21:55
fine, video. Whatever. Modus operandi's the same.

Toxen
22-05-05, 22:06
well what ya do is take a screenie while the videos recording the screenie can be used for name reference and the video can be used for action reference.

Cor
22-05-05, 22:51
I like porker's idea about the second LE, and the first LE poping out at level 30 and I have know problem with the cash tax and leave the first LE alone as it stand.

Rabiator
22-05-05, 23:59
Oh and porker le'ed players can't seize control of hunting area's preventing a reset on a hunting ground using an le'ed player is an insta-ban if caught as per the RoC

If it's a noob, try explaining nicely why he should leave once in a while. Maybe he just didn't know that bit of game mechanics. Took me a hint from another runner myself to learn that.

Heavyporker
23-05-05, 00:29
Be as it that may, some LE'd runners do this ON purpose.

Jesterthegreat
23-05-05, 00:41
i like to pvp (or pk if you like...) but no, i wouldnt support most of what i read.

90% of MMO's give people the choice, and its for good reason. not everyone wants to pvp. an imp to stop pvp is a good thing imo.

Toxen
23-05-05, 00:46
Be as it that may, some LE'd runners do this ON purpose.

Yup most commonly i've seen it done at MC5 usually by unscrupiously LE'ed droners.

Dribble Joy
23-05-05, 01:32
Bar the dungeon hunting issues with the LE, the system it's works as it should and I see no reason to alter it.

IceStorm
23-05-05, 01:39
The Law Enforcer is a PvP switch. That's all it is.

I have no desire to PvP. I use the LE on all of my characters - DoY, NC, CM - all sixteen have the LE fitted.

If you think it's being exploited by another runner, send a mail to exploits@neocron.com . Stop trying to remove the PvP switch.

Xeno LARD
23-05-05, 08:42
I don't really know...
Some people just don't want to pvp, they should have the option to stay out of it.
Problem about the LE popping out at /30 and a new one that you can put in and out as a highlevel player is people exploiting it. There simply is no way to get it right for both sides.
On the other hand, LEd people could run epics without problems, then pop their LE back in. But still, they can simply trade for epic stuff.

I actually think it's quite ok the way it is now.

IceStorm
23-05-05, 09:20
On the other hand, LEd people could run epics without problems,While it's necessary to remove the LE for 10 of the epics, it is possible to complete them and still retain one's LE. It is quite possible to boost a runner's skill rank from /29 to /45 using implants and drugs. /45 is the highest skill rank needed to take a mission where one kills another runner(s).

Darkana
23-05-05, 10:19
*slaps Heavyporker around with a large trout* I will never make a map for you again if you come up with such ideas! ;) :p

I can only repeat what has been said already: The LE chip is a PvP switch. Using the story-wrapper around it to "fit" it more into the game as a base to change it's purpose and behavior just doesn't sound right.

Yes, you have LE runners who do everything to piss non-LE runners off, spy in opwars, etc.pp.; short: are a general pain in the rear. Fact is, you have a number of non-LE runners, who use all possible means to piss LE runners off, too.

For example, imagine a LE team leveling in a cave. Non-LE runners pop up and OD you, maybe throw verbal abuse at you and show a general asshat behaviour. They can even spend all day in the cleared cave without having to bother about the Rules of Conduct, yet the LE runners cannot go in and kill them.

Non-LE runners can wreck vehicles of LE runners, non-LE runners can do all the epics, non-LE runners have 4 brain slots available, non-LE runners can form clans and have a clan-apartment, non-LE runners are affected if some other non-LE runner casts a heal sanctum, antifreeze or antipoison. This shiny no-belt-drop life has a good deal of drawbacks (and I didn't even list all of them).

Darkana, fully capped tradeskilling LE PPU.

solling
23-05-05, 10:40
i dont see a problem with the LE some people do wanna pvp and some dont its the choice they have and a choice they should make by themselves

2 things tho

1: maybee doy runners should be outfitter with something similar to the Le jsut with a different name and a diferent discription

2: epics should be doable without having to take le out

aquacoder
23-05-05, 20:33
LE should stay as it is, i would even say let people put it back in with any level they want. Just let it take 1 hour or/and loose 2-5% of all the total XP. I know many people who lommed alot and can not level anymore to get the XP back in good places because they do not have the LE in. I know people who deleted capped/nearly capped chars and recreated these with LE, because they do not want to be chased all the time. I saw actually much more bad things done by non LE player as by LEd. Hard insult and many unfair things. For example non LEd players placed em in front of my aoe drones so these explode all the time to force me to go away from a good hunting spot. And the comment was - "remove
LE and it will be even worser, then i will simply kill you". And i am speaking about allied on hunting grounds. Very funny shit :(

zii
23-05-05, 20:40
LE breaks at level 30. Sounds fine as this protects the inexperienced.
Leave the reqs alone as changing them (adding penalties) does not help newbs.
Dômer's nor CM should not start with an LE.

I strongly support the idea of thêming the LE into the game, as opposed to its current use as an anti-gank mechanism. [Although of course it it'll remain this way]