View Full Version : Lack of Roleplay?
I've not played many MMO's,but i must say that NC has such a lack of Roleplay.
In other games i've seen people roleplay things like alien attacks, politics,assasinations of people in high places in factions, police forces, espionage, intelligence spying. All that is player based, some of it is started off by mods etc, but it is roleplayed by the people who play the games, the only roleplay that is in NC from what i have played (since, retail, untill 2 months before nc2, and from about 2-3 weeks ago) is personal grudges and instead of people writing in roleplay text like trying to look hard etc (:P), it's sad things like people saying "0mgz, we are the win, we are so much better than you guys, we kick ur ass at 0p warz, you are nubs".
I'm not proposing everyone goes on a roleplay trip and starts saying "sir" to their faction presidents.
What would be nice if you people could say why you think NC is lacking roleplay, and for people who think it does have roleplay, please tell us why :).
Honestly, I don't really need to see anymore roleplay per se. I'm in it for the adrenalin and action, which means I spend most of my time dying.
Saying that, you can easily shout across channels that a wanted criminal is running around a certain area and there is a bounty on his head with a dogtag. It should get some people into places they don't usually go to.
Honestly, I don't really need to see anymore roleplay per se. I'm in it for the adrenalin and action, which means I spend most of my time dying.
Saying that, you can easily shout across channels that a wanted criminal is running around a certain area and there is a bounty on his head with a dogtag. It should get some people into places they don't usually go to.
<sigh> why must everything come back to PvP?
(this isnt a dig at you Zii)
As a roleplayer, I have to agree with Xephonas, that Roleplay is lacking in NC2. One problem I feel, was the majority of roleplayers on Pluto was forced to head to a 4 slot server, partly because of the language barrier. And I also lost a few to Click2Pay and WoW beta.
And it's sad that everyone cares more about PvP, than RP, as clearly illustrated in Zii's post above me.
Here's a oddball question - Zii, why did you choose the faction that your character are in when they came to MC5?
Gonna level the finger at the Event GM's and writers for this little fault in the game theres role play in the game just lacks the support behind It in my opinion for role play to occur a good background story is needed that people can dip in and out of and affect.
At the moment this is how I feel things are going on there are no major story arcs going on so theres no connectivity and context for smaller storys that go on which are then linked by sporadic events that have little to no prior warning and usually don't really affect the storyline I have the greatest feeling that the canyon storyline was set instone before any of the events pertaining to it began thus in the end any attempt by the city at the storyline events prevent the canyon been retaken by the DoY alliance were pointless personally this kinda disaudes me from roleplaying those aspects, heck I'll goto the fight for fun of it and you never know where some insane event GM decides to spawn zarg belts for everyone there :P But if people have even the slightest hint there participation isn't going to be worth anything they'll find something better to do.
If you step back and look at everything in context the Op wars are sposed to be the big background story but because of the different servers been thrown into the equaition they can't really affect the game content that much nor the overall storyline. So roleplay has to happen with in a very limited context. :( not the funnest kind of role play.
But all is not lost but the emphasis is on the event gm's and writers to come up with events storylines that can operate within the context of whats possible with the game engine yet can go in numerous directs.
The way I would do this would be at the start of every month on a set date the event GM's and writers get together ingame or online somewhere and hollow out a basic string timeline of events and story arcs for the coming month take that and for each event work out the basic alternate conclusions and how those conclusions effect events later in the time line for that month.
Once thats all done look at how you want the months events to affect the big NC Vs DoY story arc and which way they need to be influenced to reach the conclusion you want. This way you have more flexibility with the event conclusions Perhaps city wins an event that it wasn't spose to and this changes the current outcome for the month you just then need to go back to the time line and put more emphasis on a later event that brings the balance back around to a DoY conclusion to the months events.
Digital-Talios
16-05-05, 21:18
It seams to me that out of the 15 or so MMORPGs that I have played Neocron probably lacks the greatest in both role-play and mature players. Most of the time all you ever hear on OCC, help, and sometimes even Trade NC is a bunch of people screaming how they are uber and how the other person lost because of a (insert your favorite bug here) excuse.
Role-play is a important component to a great game. Obviously since I’m here role-playing isn’t every thing. It has its use and functions like a filler that binds things together. Role-play also doesn’t mean you have to go out in the woods with foam swords and beat each other over your heads. Role-play transcends such one dimensional thinking.
My role-play is based around supporting the notion of personal freedom. As some of you know I started out as DoY thinking that they were the "good guys" in the game. After 3 months in the Dome and seeing all of the petty bickering amongst its peoples and how even though I was Black Dragon I got pk'd more times by fellow DoY peeps then NC's I began to be put off by them.
I came to the realization that all the factions are corrupted and have shady dealings. As I looked among all the factions the game has to offer I came across City Admin. I believe that they are the only faction that maintains any kind of working freedom for their citizens under the conditions in which we find ourselves. I despise the Dome now. As I look back I see how worse off they are. Twilight Guardian allies itself with the worst of what little civilization remains within the Dome.
Better role-play comes from playing City Admin. The potential for decent honest role-play and pvp comes from this faction and the factions that support it. To beat the fascist Dome leaders and ensure human survival is a worthy and noble thing to fight for!
I found it funny that at one time hunting in my rhino another rhino came to pk us. We managed to destroy them and found out that they were FA and Crahn. They had no idea what faction we were. To them we were an "easy target. I guess we proved them wrong. What was funny about the whole ordeal was that there was another rhino in the same sector. Their pilot jumped out after the conflict and hacked the pker's belts. I got a pretty nice ppu out of the ordeal. So the moral of this story was that I received more hospitality from the “enemy” then I did from my so called “allies”
Digital-Talios
16-05-05, 21:22
Gonna level the finger at the Event GM's and writers for this little fault in the game theres role play in the game just lacks the support behind It in my opinion for role play to occur a good background story is needed that people can dip in and out of and affect.
At the moment this is how I feel things are going on there are no major story arcs going on so theres no connectivity and context for smaller storys that go on which are then linked by sporadic events that have little to no prior warning and usually don't really affect the storyline I have the greatest feeling that the canyon storyline was set instone before any of the events pertaining to it began thus in the end any attempt by the city at the storyline events prevent the canyon been retaken by the DoY alliance were pointless personally this kinda disaudes me from roleplaying those aspects, heck I'll goto the fight for fun of it and you never know where some insane event GM decides to spawn zarg belts for everyone there :P But if people have even the slightest hint there participation isn't going to be worth anything they'll find something better to do.
If you step back and look at everything in context the Op wars are sposed to be the big background story but because of the different servers been thrown into the equaition they can't really affect the game content that much nor the overall storyline. So roleplay has to happen with in a very limited context. :( not the funnest kind of role play.
But all is not lost but the emphasis is on the event gm's and writers to come up with events storylines that can operate within the context of whats possible with the game engine yet can go in numerous directs.
The way I would do this would be at the start of every month on a set date the event GM's and writers get together ingame or online somewhere and hollow out a basic string timeline of events and story arcs for the coming month take that and for each event work out the basic alternate conclusions and how those conclusions effect events later in the time line for that month.
Once thats all done look at how you want the months events to affect the big NC Vs DoY story arc and which way they need to be influenced to reach the conclusion you want. This way you have more flexibility with the event conclusions Perhaps city wins an event that it wasn't spose to and this changes the current outcome for the month you just then need to go back to the time line and put more emphasis on a later event that brings the balance back around to a DoY conclusion to the months events.
all very true. I heard neocron was under attack by doy bots. I gathered my guns and went into action. Being there I thought to myself these bots would of been here wether or not any players showed up and us being here now has no baring on any kind of storyline. After 5 minutes of hopelessness I left.
need to find a way to fairly weigh what the players want in the sorty and to make it feel like they have a bearing on the comming storylines
I don't really try to roleplay and tbh I would suck at it but if I see someone or if someone comes up to me roleplaying. I at least try my best to play along with it, so I'm approchable <-- spelling all it really takes is some people to create a story line and people will follow it. Sure you get people spamming the chat channels with OMFG I R WINNER !!!!111 but muting them works great or simply turn the damn channel off.
As for events I put the whole thing down to lazyness player run events are so easy to start, I once had a all 120 stats holylighting I think which was 4 slot. I hid somewhere and gave people a time a limit to find me about 2 - 3 hours I think. It was in a celler in via rosso 3 <- spelling again) the one with the mutant gunmen flame thrower type. There was about 10 mins left to find me ^^ damn... well the person who found me got the holylightning as a reward. There was another one FR clan did a few times and they called it the running man, it was a player with -32 soulight carrying around 5 rares on him.
Digital-Talios
16-05-05, 21:52
I don't really try to roleplay and tbh I would suck at it but if I see someone or if someone comes up to me roleplaying. I at least try my best to play along with it, so I'm approchable <-- spelling all it really takes is some people to create a story line and people will follow it. Sure you get people spamming the chat channels with OMFG I R WINNER !!!!111 but muting them works great or simply turn the damn channel off.
As for events I put the whole thing down to lazyness player run events are so easy to start, I once had a all 120 stats holylighting I think which was 4 slot. I hid somewhere and gave people a time a limit to find me about 2 - 3 hours I think. It was in a celler in via rosso 3 <- spelling again) the one with the mutant gunmen flame thrower type. There was about 10 mins left to find me ^^ damn... well the person who found me got the holylightning as a reward. There was another one FR clan did a few times and they called it the running man, it was a player with -32 soulight carrying around 5 rares on him.
good things indeed. roleplay doesnt need to be speaking in character either. roleplay can be simply a way for people to guide their clan's or faction's actions.
I also find it quite amusing that i'm 13 and on the subject of roleplay, when the online game sterotype of a 13 year old is a little retard with a high pitched voice (which i dont have).
But all the talk about event GM's isn't needed, the roleplay im talking about is not just events, it's day to day things, the STUPIDEST thing i see in neocron which i have never seen in any other game is when people fight at pepper park (or MB zone line these days) people will fight and kill each other on the fighting side, but when its the safe side, people are saying, "this is quite fun, wanna go level sometime" (i admit saying "this is fun" yesterday, but as a joke cause i getting my ass kicked by some antis).
it all goes down to what kind of people play the game, i think all the true roleplayers where in pluto as someone pointed out.
I wanted to make a roleplaying clan sometime but never got round to it, tis not hard to roleplay people.
But when people say "ur not roleplaying so why do you play this MMO game?", and yea, that's because PvPing in this game is incredible for adrenaline :P.
I've seen some of my mates play this game in real life, and some of them start to shake abit when they are fighting :P (and thats like 15 and 16 year olds)
Agreed roleplay is lacking in that many players use their alts to ally-pk --that's my pet-peeve.
However, roleplay happens but people always forget the damn changes to the storyline.
and my roleplay in NC at the moment is a Tangent employee trained to fight agaisnt the dome, and i think that TT fits a NC fighter well, a they make guns.
but people roleplaying espionage fighters that are photopharm doesnt sound as good (they just doctors :P)
Digital-Talios
16-05-05, 22:47
City Admin is good considering they are a goverment with many departments and branches. They have their own soldiers, inteligence officers, etc. If I dont join Blood I know for sure that I will create a City Admin clan structured around roleplaying but will not be the end all be all to clan affairs.
Dribble Joy
16-05-05, 23:01
There is no reason in NC to RP, it if anything hinders your progress and causes animosities.
Where you have little or no effect of your actions on the world around you and there is virtually no consequence for any of your actions on the life of your character, player character bonding will never happen nor any connection to the role or situation ingame.
There is no reason in NC to RP, it if anything hinders your progress and causes animosities.
Where you have little or no effect of your actions on the world around you and there is virtually no consequence for any of your actions on the life of your character, player character bonding will never happen nor any connection to the role or situation ingame.
Character bonding will never happen right... you might wanna go take a look at this post first http://forum.neocron.com/showpost.php?p=1810048&postcount=34 scroll down the screenies a bit hint look for the wedding datacube
You RP a thief Xephonas, or is that just you?
Anyway, yeah, NC could do with more RP - perhaps like Dribble says it should mean more. BUt the community has so many "anti-rp" people, who flame any scrap of RP they see. I know there are other reasons as well, but look at all the abuse porker recieves.... That said, I gather certain people (brammers) for example do enganage in quite a lot of private RP.
As a roleplayer, I have to agree with Xephonas, that Roleplay is lacking in NC2. One problem I feel, was the majority of roleplayers on Pluto was forced to head to a 4 slot server, partly because of the language barrier. And I also lost a few to Click2Pay and WoW beta.
And it's sad that everyone cares more about PvP, than RP, as clearly illustrated in Zii's post above me.
Here's a oddball question - Zii, why did you choose the faction that your character are in when they came to MC5?
I choose Crahn because: It was my opposite in real life. I am a complete athiest, so since Crahn were religious I joined them. When I first roled my first newb char in NC1 he was TG, but after being BD for a few months changed back to Crahn. I wanted to be the underdog with a chip on his block. I wanted to take back the city from a perceived wrong doing. Even more so now. I actually feel it unjust that I cannot walk through the NC streets without being attached by CA or a Cop/StormBot. My char was always Crahn, barring the 2 months I speat Epic whoring in NC1, which proved fruitless in the end. I roleplay a spineless shady psychotic killer, who'll try and run away if he thinks that he's going to get his arse whipped.
[Although recently I've started attacking first when I perceive a mild threat because my ISP has a bottleneck on one of its many hops to Germany, which gives me an average of 300-400m/s ping, which means chances are I'm dead afore I know it :) ]
I've not played many MMO's,but i must say that NC has such a lack of Roleplay.
In other games i've seen people roleplay things like alien attacks, politics,assasinations of people in high places in factions, police forces, espionage, intelligence spying. ...If your Neocron 2 is lacking in roleplay, you may want to ask yourself what you're doing wrong. All of the following examples are just in the last two weeks:
Alien attacks: Have you not been following the Regant's Mutants storyline in game? Not all of the EGM mob spawns are totally random. They haven't explained this storyline in depth, but I think it's pretty clear that there's more to the mutants than either ProtoPharm or Biotech understands. I think that some mutants do survive to adulthood, and that the mutants have found their own Ceres Vault somewhere. I don't think that we're only up against deranged adult-sized 2-year-olds who've randomly picked up discarded test weapons; I think we're up against a whole third side in the conflict. Sorry you hadn't figured that out yet.
Politics: Dear Ghod, politics is half this game. If you weren't aware that there's hard-core politicking going on, some of it egged on by the EGMs, then the shifting alliances that determine which clan is KOS to which, and which clans show up to help each other take or defend outposts, must seem totally random to you. I think I spend as much time in chat negotiating terms and settling differences as I spend leveling up and parts farming combined. And while it hasn't been insanely popular, my clan's whole recruiting pitch, easily half of all we do, has been aimed at the political goal of making CA look bad and TS look good. You must have missed it.
Assassinations of high-level people in factions: Oh, no, see, that can't happen. For that to happen, we'd ever have to see high level faction officials in person, and something would happen to their genrep records. (*cough* Art Jepherson (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=124925) *cough*)
Police forces: In the whole time since they introduced the "dirty copbot" suit, which was what, over a year ago?, I've assumed that anybody wearing it was roleplaying an NCPD auxilliary. Which is why, no matter what side I'm on, I refer to them as "officer." (You know, the official first name of every cop and rent-a-cop.) Since I'm Tsunami, I'm being sardonic when I call them that, but still, I use it every time. And nobody has ever asked me what I meant, and everybody has always played along. Most recently, twice in the last two weeks I've had occasion to genrep into CityAdmin HQ to buy gear that's CA FSM only (rifle spy PA3 and a personnel carrier). Both times, I was snarkily polite to everybody in a Copbot suit. Both times, I subtly hinted that I was handing over bribes or payoff money. The results were predictably hi-larious.
Espionage, intelligence spying: You're kidding, right? My Obliterator is my favorite weapon, and yes, I've used it not a few times to feed data back on the Alliance channel.
See, what baffles me is how you missed all of this. All I can do is guess.
Neocron, like any MMO, is what you make of it. If you only associate with power-gamers, then it'll seem like a power-gaming game to you. If you only spend time in the 5 sectors that maximize XP and loot, you'll never see anything that's going on elsewhere. If you turn off your Alliance chat channel because you don't care about all that stuff, you'll never see in-character announcements from the Event Game Masters and you'll never know that there even are politics going on. It's possible to miss all of the role-playing going on in this game, I guess. But it seems to me that you'd have to work at it pretty hard, and make a large very specific set of choices, to miss it all.
You RP a thief Xephonas, or is that just you?
Anyway, yeah, NC could do with more RP - perhaps like Dribble says it should mean more. BUt the community has so many "anti-rp" people, who flame any scrap of RP they see. I know there are other reasons as well, but look at all the abuse porker recieves.... That said, I gather certain people (brammers) for example do enganage in quite a lot of private RP.
I'm not sure if you mean private RP, as a bad thing or good thing. Having said that I've have noticed there has been a lot more private RP sessions since we moved to Terra, partly due to the anti-RP'ers.
Now who from Pluto remembers the Skull Cult? Practically the whole server was involved! How did that start, well it was one GM spawning a flaming skull, and SanityIsLost killing herself for the skull. I've written a few Neocronicle articles on those events, if anyone wants to go and read them.
The Neocronicle and VoTR is back now, so if you want to get involved in the storyline, start reading them!
Also if anyone needs any help with RP'ing, I can usually get people from Phoenix to help out, so you only need to DM me.
Digital-Talios
17-05-05, 00:29
perhaps it might be better said to say that I play in character when I do things. If i switch factions for a reason I have a story about it. If i go on a random pk spree I have a story behind it. All my actions are governed by the story (my personal story) and I decide were i wanna take it
problems i can see here:
1. lack of encouraging roleplay from the KK side
2. core of NC community (by which i mean people who are staying and playing and affecting the server's community) are "CS type" pvpers, who dont care about rp. All others, as minority, have to give up, at least partially, to be able to participate in community life.
The reason for such standing is obvious - this game is lacking at everything except consequenceless pvp.
lol i only read the first line and then im posing so ill prolly edit this
nc is full of rule play, the amount of times i have been wakling down the streat and some doy runner is in the city and says die city skum and by nib /30 hybreed is droped before he gets a shelter of, =P thats role play, hes playing a evil anti city runner and im playing the role of a dead city monk =P
simple as
Dribble Joy
17-05-05, 02:52
As much as people criticse the 'CS kiddies' and their anti rp stance (and rightly so), we have to realise there are RPers who are equally as irrational, unbending, uptight, elitist and abusive to the other side, who don't make the case for RP any better.
As much as people criticse the 'CS kiddies' and their anti rp stance (and rightly so), we have to realise there are RPers who are equally as irrational, unbending, uptight, elitist and abusive to the other side, who don't make the case for RP any better.
True --I've met too many "rp************s"
As much as people criticse the 'CS kiddies' and their anti rp stance (and rightly so), we have to realise there are RPers who are equally as irrational, unbending, uptight, elitist and abusive to the other side, who don't make the case for RP any better.
i'm not critisizing anyone, just stating the fact that this kind of people are the majority here, so everyone has to play within their rules (which is: no rp) to be able to participate as a community member. Of course, you can stand against it, but ti wont change anything except limiting your possibilities within the community itself.
its not bad or good. this is just the current 'community standing'. And mmorpgs are all about communities, whether we like it or not.
Bugs Gunny
17-05-05, 11:40
Xephonas, a complaint was filed about your burglary at NCPD.
Subsequent actions will be taken, to ensure a suift and just trial on the streets when you run into some NCPD personel.
Cleaningcrews will be dispatched to clean up the place of trial after the sentencing has been executed.
OOC: Wanna know something realy scary? I saw Smurfen from nc-elites roleplay at an op fight last night.......brrrrrr.....
how can you roleplay with few people? :wtf:
lol i only read the first line and then im posing so ill prolly edit this
nc is full of rule play, the amount of times i have been wakling down the streat and some doy runner is in the city and says die city skum and by nib /30 hybreed is droped before he gets a shelter of, =P thats role play, hes playing a evil anti city runner and im playing the role of a dead city monk =P
simple as
The prosecution rests m'lud
If your Neocron 2 is lacking in roleplay, you may want to ask yourself what you're doing wrong. All of the following examples are just in the last two weeks:
Alien attacks: Have you not been following the Regant's Mutants storyline in game? Not all of the EGM mob spawns are totally random. They haven't explained this storyline in depth, but I think it's pretty clear that there's more to the mutants than either ProtoPharm or Biotech understands. I think that some mutants do survive to adulthood, and that the mutants have found their own Ceres Vault somewhere. I don't think that we're only up against deranged adult-sized 2-year-olds who've randomly picked up discarded test weapons; I think we're up against a whole third side in the conflict. Sorry you hadn't figured that out yet.
Politics: Dear Ghod, politics is half this game. If you weren't aware that there's hard-core politicking going on, some of it egged on by the EGMs, then the shifting alliances that determine which clan is KOS to which, and which clans show up to help each other take or defend outposts, must seem totally random to you. I think I spend as much time in chat negotiating terms and settling differences as I spend leveling up and parts farming combined. And while it hasn't been insanely popular, my clan's whole recruiting pitch, easily half of all we do, has been aimed at the political goal of making CA look bad and TS look good. You must have missed it.
Assassinations of high-level people in factions: Oh, no, see, that can't happen. For that to happen, we'd ever have to see high level faction officials in person, and something would happen to their genrep records. (*cough* Art Jepherson (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=124925) *cough*)
Police forces: In the whole time since they introduced the "dirty copbot" suit, which was what, over a year ago?, I've assumed that anybody wearing it was roleplaying an NCPD auxilliary. Which is why, no matter what side I'm on, I refer to them as "officer." (You know, the official first name of every cop and rent-a-cop.) Since I'm Tsunami, I'm being sardonic when I call them that, but still, I use it every time. And nobody has ever asked me what I meant, and everybody has always played along. Most recently, twice in the last two weeks I've had occasion to genrep into CityAdmin HQ to buy gear that's CA FSM only (rifle spy PA3 and a personnel carrier). Both times, I was snarkily polite to everybody in a Copbot suit. Both times, I subtly hinted that I was handing over bribes or payoff money. The results were predictably hi-larious.
Espionage, intelligence spying: You're kidding, right? My Obliterator is my favorite weapon, and yes, I've used it not a few times to feed data back on the Alliance channel.
See, what baffles me is how you missed all of this. All I can do is guess.
Neocron, like any MMO, is what you make of it. If you only associate with power-gamers, then it'll seem like a power-gaming game to you. If you only spend time in the 5 sectors that maximize XP and loot, you'll never see anything that's going on elsewhere. If you turn off your Alliance chat channel because you don't care about all that stuff, you'll never see in-character announcements from the Event Game Masters and you'll never know that there even are politics going on. It's possible to miss all of the role-playing going on in this game, I guess. But it seems to me that you'd have to work at it pretty hard, and make a large very specific set of choices, to miss it all.
in my post i did say "in other games", those were just examples from "other games".
But yea, you replied well actually :).
As Brad said earlier there is lots of role play, and personally I think there is enough role play in this game for me. It adds to the atmosphere. Perhaps I'm just less demanding than others, and simply expect less, which means of course I'm always satisfied, which in turn means I'm always happy. Usually...
Jesterthegreat
17-05-05, 20:02
different prople have different definitians...
blindly following f6? choosing your own allies / enemies? both can be considered RP if you choose think about it
different prople have different definitians...
blindly following f6? choosing your own allies / enemies? both can be considered RP if you choose think about it
It goes way beyond whether you chose to follow F6
Its also that there is/could be more to NC than PvP.......
Jesterthegreat
18-05-05, 11:58
It goes way beyond whether you chose to follow F6
Its also that there is/could be more to NC than PvP.......
it was just an example of how 2 totally opposite schools of thought can both be RP if you accept it
Choosing who to kill is not an example of RP. You are no more "roleplaying" by killing your faction enemies than you are by killing people you don't like. At best, you are choosing to play the game by the rules (well, more like a guideline in this case) specified by KK, or you are choosing to ignore them.
IMHO as a fluffy RP ************ (which I'm sure will come as no great surprise :D) I would say that roleplaying is the act of adding a consistent persona to your avatar that, while it may or may not be similar to your own persona, you are able to treat as an entity separate from yourself.
Choosing to play by the spirit of the game rather than by the letter of the game is simply icing on the RP cake, but both are perfectly acceptable approaches to that aspect of roleplaying. ;)
Jesterthegreat
18-05-05, 12:27
Choosing who to kill is not an example of RP. You are no more "roleplaying" by killing your faction enemies than you are by killing people you don't like. At best, you are choosing to play the game by the rules (well, more like a guideline in this case) specified by KK, or you are choosing to ignore them.
IMHO as a fluffy RP ************ (which I'm sure will come as no great surprise :D) I would say that roleplaying is the act of adding a consistent persona to your avatar that, while it may or may not be similar to your own persona, you are able to treat as an entity separate from yourself.
Choosing to play by the spirit of the game rather than by the letter of the game is simply icing on the RP cake, but both are perfectly acceptable approaches to that aspect of roleplaying. ;)
so my character making his own decisions, building his own custom friends / enemied list, etc is not playing a role? Average Joe is a merc... no matter what people believe a merc doesnt just kill for money, how would he stay in practice when no one is hiring? Average Joe kills who he wants. he does this to show he can. to show hes a fighter. to show hes capable. these are the qualities someone wants in a merc.
theres a persona right there...
Wow you're on a power-posting spree this morning :cool:
What I have proposed as the definition of RP is actually very simple - by nature of who to kill / who not to kill I would say no, that alone is not RP and Average Joe is no exception.. but that's not the issue in this case because you've gone on to detail things that you (perhaps) consider secondary to the definition of your character - motivation. That's one of the things that builds the persona, and I would say on that basis, you are indeed roleplaying Average Joe.. in my opinion, the WHY is more important than the WHAT when it comes to RP.
Two pretty good tests for my "high" standards of roleplay in NC are:
o) If someone called you a dirty son-of-a-drom here on the forums, and you saw their character in game, would you feel the need to exact any form of revenge or look to provoke and justify conflict?
o) If a character insulted your character in game (Local, Trade or whatever, not trash talk via DM), would that affect how you felt about that person - for example, here on the forums?
If the answer to either is yes, then you haven't seperated your character from yourself; You aren't playing a role, you are just playing the game :)
Jesterthegreat
18-05-05, 12:46
Wow you're on a power-posting spree this morning :cool:
What I have proposed as the definition of RP is actually very simple - by nature of who to kill / who not to kill I would say no, that alone is not RP and Average Joe is no exception.. but that's not the issue in this case because you've gone on to detail things that you (perhaps) consider secondary to the definition of your character - motivation. That's one of the things that builds the persona, and I would say on that basis, you are indeed roleplaying Average Joe.. in my opinion, the WHY is more important than the WHAT when it comes to RP.
Two pretty good tests for my "high" standards of roleplay in NC are:
o) If someone called you a dirty son-of-a-drom here on the forums, and you saw their character in game, would you feel the need to exact any form of revenge or look to provoke and justify conflict?
o) If a character insulted your character in game (Local, Trade or whatever, not trash talk via DM), would that affect how you felt about that person - for example, here on the forums?
If the answer to either is yes, then you haven't seperated your character from yourself; You aren't playing a role, you are just playing the game :)
depends how deep you wanna RP?
theres an RP subforum on this forum... you could explain it by saying your char is posting via the citycom, of course that would require all posts to be made in at least semi-RP... but its possible.
my point is almost anything can be explained away with RP because it has such wide definitions.
:Edit: role playing, like griefing, has many definitions depending on who you ask.
i heave heard that blindly following f6 is RP and choosing your own enemies is deathmatch, when in my opinion my ingame character chosing what to do and who to fight is much more playing a role... and blindly following the red vs blue is much more "team deathmatch"
Indeed that's very true - but the RP subsection is quite specific and the forums were just used as an example. The bigger picture is the ability to seperate the character from the real world.
As you say, however, RP does have very wide definitions and what I posted was simply my own view on RP.. being one of those carebear RP ************'s and all ;)
Jesterthegreat
18-05-05, 12:53
Indeed that's very true - but the RP subsection is quite specific and the forums were just used as an example. The bigger picture is the ability to seperate the character from the real world.
As you say, however, RP does have very wide definitions and what I posted was simply my own view on RP.. being one of those carebear RP ************'s and all ;)
if its the ability to seperate it from the real world then that makes the PK'ers the best RP'ers :p
never once have i fired a weapon (more powerful than a BB gun or a water pistol) at someone or near someone. that means my ingame char is totally seperate to me RL character :p
:edit: on a more serious note...
you say the "why" is more important... that maybe true, but the "what" is what we see... not everyone wants to explain the "why"
Bugs Gunny
18-05-05, 12:57
Even though i think Average Joe is kind of annoying when he's pking in the city, i have to admit he does indeed roleplay.
On the chatchannels he's one of the most arrogant, rude, cocky obnoxious bastards ingame, yet he isn't when he's doing it.
I do feel he should try roleplaying the merc thing more, as now he's constantly sitting at the CA HQ doorsteps (asking for employment i think) and his haircut doesn't realy go too well with the clean looks of the building :-)
There's so many forms of roleplaying, yet so few that actualy do it.
Heh heh - on the contrary; expressing the idea, need or desire to do such things and then carrying them out in game is exactly what RP isn't - being able to leave your own motivations at the door and swap them for your character's motivations.. that's RP.
Though I guess I can see your point.. but remember, it's not their actions (PK), it's their motivation. If they have one, they yay, I'd say that's RP. If not, they are just playing a game :)
Edit: Quite right - it is the actions we witness in game that define our opinion of other characters (unless they post a lot on the RP forums).. but it's not required to explain the WHY, just that you have a WHY. Anyone can claim what they are doing in NC is roleplaying.. from killing noobs, to building items, to endlessly going around and around on the subway. A roleplayer will assume (or hope) there is motivation behind those actions but only the player in question will really know, and this is what it's all about. If you want to claim "Hey, I *do* RP, you'd better have a WHY, even if it's in your head, otherwise you are just deluding yourself :)
Edit 2: Oh man, you've lost me now Jester :)
Jesterthegreat
18-05-05, 13:01
as of yet i have not been approached to be hired once, barring an event where the pro city runners broke the event rules and killed one of us.
we won't go into the consiquences of that death and the GM's refusal to interviene...
anyway point is, i am obviously not known enough and as such must continue to participate in combat without a contract :D
:edit: @ above
you just saw my "why" and you admit that is RP. before i said my "why", you said it wasnt.
not everyone will sit on the forums and explain the "why"... does this mean they arent RPing?
:edit2: ill try to fit the following into my next sig...
one of the most arrogant, rude, cocky obnoxious bastards ingame
Bugs Gunny
18-05-05, 13:07
Jester....
Now seriously, nobody likes hiring mercs because they can't be trusted.
Let alone hire a merc that would go out on random killing sprees when he's not paid.
I dare you to join my hippie peace movement roleplay clan and help us protest in plaza1 without le's in :D
Jesterthegreat
18-05-05, 13:09
Jester....
Now seriously, nobody likes hiring mercs because they can't be trusted.
Let alone hire a merc that would go out on random killing sprees when he's not paid.
I dare you to join my hippie peace movement roleplay clan and help us protest in plaza1 without le's in :D
we "random pk" cos we have no contract... if someone were to hire us we would fight for them as long as the contract lasts
I've hired Mercs before.. in fact, I plan to hire some mercs as soon as I have a decent pool of credits to teach me the basics of PvP (the hard way :D) since I totally suck at it.. Venom up for that, Jester? ;)
As an aside, I hope ya'll don't think this is flaming or anything.. I just find the subject (and definition) of roleplaying fascinating :)
Jesterthegreat
18-05-05, 13:13
I've hired Mercs before.. in fact, I plan to hire some mercs as soon as I have a decent pool of credits to teach me the basics of PvP (the hard way :D) since I totally suck at it.. Venom up for that, Jester? ;)
As an aside, I hope ya'll don't think this is flaming or anything.. I just find the subject (and definition) of roleplaying fascinating :)
i'm always up for a nice discussion ;) i'm one of the few that *rarely* sinks to personal insults, even if i am being an arrogant, rude, cocky obnoxious bastard on ooc ;)
and if its just pvp training... i NF quite alot and have no problem giving tips (though people tend to have problems taking them :p)
(though people tend to have problems taking them)
Thats because some people have such high opinions of their setups that they dont want to hear it! I on the other hand have no delusions about my setup or my ability to put it to use. Once I've got back up to 1 mil credits, I'll drop you a line to sort this out in game - you'll have to have an hourly rate or per-session fee decided by then :)
Dribble Joy
18-05-05, 13:18
I would very much disagree that mercs are simply killers who get paid to do it occationly, using murder as some sort of excuse for target practice.
(CM would in all likelyness have some form of training regime, being that they are a discaplined military organisation, and have/should have dojos, sparring rooms and maybe an NF type place)
Going against what your faction sets out as it's role, code of contuct and moral standpoint, should have serious repercussions, currently it does not.
As for ganker/griefers, it's completely dependant on someone's perspective and opinion.
Many do and will use rp as an excuse to act as cunts and pk pk pk and generally get their rocks off on causing other people pain. As to those who whether they are simply in denial/have convinced themselves that they are rping or really are rping, it doesn't really matter, people will hate them as much as the others as is expected and would do anyway, even in a system that worked. So it's all a bit irrelevant.
Both sides complain about the other, but neither really has the right to.
RPers/'nice' people complain about pkers being mentally challenged and pkers complain that people should not be able to complain about them making people suffer.
Equally as daft. People hate griefers for the same reason they hate murderers, griefers hate people because they want to get away with it or think that they aren't doing anything wrong (what is wrong being dependant on the mass's opinion anyway, neither they or the pkers being right of course).
Bugs Gunny
18-05-05, 13:23
An hourly rate huh?
So now he's an arrogant, rude, cocky obnoxious prostitute.
Moving up in the world Jester :-)
As for ganker/griefers, it's completely dependant on someone's perspective and opinion.
Many do and will use rp as an excuse to act as cunts and pk pk pk and generally get their rocks off on causing other people pain. As to those who whether they are simply in denial/have convinced themselves that they are rping or really are rping, it doesn't really matter, people will hate them as much as the others as is expected and would do anyway, even in a system that worked. So it's all a bit irrelevant.
Not so - but I guess it depends on the attitude of the player sitting at the keyboard. A griefer might ruin my evening's play, but I also acknowledge that as long as he isn't breaking any rules, it's his right to do that (going back to my favourite un-asked question: Who's fun is more important?). When someone says here on the forums "Yeah well I did that because I'm RP'ing a hardcore killer." I do this -> :rolleyes: <- because I can usually tell when it's just an excuse. On the otherhand, I >dont< hate the ones who actually do RP. Case in point, Titus Endor (he doesnt play anymore - but if I still shouldnt mention his name Mods, feel free to change it ;)). I used to *hate* running in to that guy because he would always try to kill me and quite frankly, always managed it. I could be sitting at a GR with SI, talking with friends, whatever. Dead. But.. every time it happened, there was some in character gloating. I even ran in to him in Plaza 1 and we ended up having a heated discussion (re:shouting at each other) over City Admin's ruling over the city and how Crahn would make pigs fly yadda yadda.
I respected him for that, and I certainly didn't hate him as a player.
Jesterthegreat
18-05-05, 13:31
(CM would in all likelyness have some form of training regime, being that they are a discaplined military organisation, and have/should have dojos, sparring rooms and maybe an NF type place) if people actually faught in a place like this then this would solve alot of problems... i prefer to NF. i prefer a real duel to risking a boring ppu laden fight. however this doesnt happen.
Going against what your faction sets out as it's role, code of contuct and moral standpoint, should have serious repercussions, currently it does not. if the game had more content (such as what you mentioned above) then i wouldn't mind seeing tightening of the reins". however as it stands i wouldn't support it.
As for ganker/griefers, it's completely dependant on someone's perspective and opinion. exactly
Many do and will use rp as an excuse to act as cunts and pk pk pk and generally get their rocks off on causing other people pain. As to those who whether they are simply in denial/have convinced themselves that they are rping or really are rping, it doesn't really matter, people will hate them as much as the others as is expected and would do anyway, even in a system that worked. So it's all a bit irrelevant. this proves your point... saying we "get our rocks off on causing other people pain". a completely biased way of looking at it. would i feel good if someone quit because of me? no. i want to fight. this game may not be soley about pvp, but given that the only form of high level content we have is getting weapons / implants (mostly for combat) in the form of rares... you gotta admit its a big part of it. kk removed the safe zones in the cities... so don't tell me they want pvp limited to op wars.
Both sides complain about the other, but neither really has the right to. exactly... when i am on my sniper and i only see LE'd runners i complain, but i am also aware that the possibility of an LE is a good thing. i use LE when i'm leveling a new char, sometimes i use it until i get a * rank. i do that because i am aware of its effects.
RPers/'nice' people complain about pkers being mentally challenged and pkers complain that people should not be able to complain about them making people suffer. nice people complain about deaths that they invited upon removing LE's you mean... PvP is entirely optional. and "pkers" complain that people use LE's to counter this. now i have no problem with LE's in general... but people who use LE'd chars to kill all the leveling mobs (on a high level guy) or talk shit... they just exploit the invunerability.
Equally as daft. People hate griefers for the same reason they hate murderers, griefers hate people because they want to get away with it or think that they aren't doing anything wrong (what is wrong being dependant on the mass's opinion anyway, neither they or the pkers being right of course).
again... it all comes down to the definitian of griefing.
someone reported me for killing his red SL char in plaza 1... he claimed it was griefing. am i a bad guy for killing him?
Dribble Joy
18-05-05, 16:18
if the game had more content (such as what you mentioned above) then i wouldn't mind seeing tightening of the reins". however as it stands i wouldn't support it.
I was making more a point more about NC in general, particuarly about the fact that clanned runners do not get made factionless due to low symp.
I want to see more viablility for factionless runners and clans too, with as oft mentioned, a much greater emphasis on faction symp. Being a member of a faction should be as if you are an employee of a company (and many factions are), toe the party line or face the sack.
this proves your point... saying we "get our rocks off on causing other people pain". a completely biased way of looking at it.
The point is that a large proportion do feel this way, and being griefed/ganked (as opposed to 'fair' PvP) really does cause them suffering in some way. Though I am sure you realise this, many people don't.
Jesterthegreat
18-05-05, 18:02
I was making more a point more about NC in general, particuarly about the fact that clanned runners do not get made factionless due to low symp.
I want to see more viablility for factionless runners and clans too, with as oft mentioned, a much greater emphasis on faction symp. Being a member of a faction should be as if you are an employee of a company (and many factions are), toe the party line or face the sack.
The point is that a large proportion do feel this way, and being griefed/ganked (as opposed to 'fair' PvP) really does cause them suffering in some way. Though I am sure you realise this, many people don't.
an enemy "killing" me causes me as much hassle as an ally "griefing" me.
as for symps meaning so much more, i agree... if they make symp harder to get.
as it stands symp is much easier to keep high than SL, this would only increase the "pker problem"
we "random pk" cos we have no contract... if someone were to hire us we would fight for them as long as the contract lasts
The 'problem' with this is that you might be killing potential clients - at least when you are on a contract its 'nothing personal - just business' but when you just choose to have a pop at someone as 'training', as opposed to using NF or using muties or other mobs then your 'RP defence' gets pretty thin [to the point of non-existance]
Having said that, its obvious you play to PvP Jester and I have to give you credit for at least making the effort to do it in a manner [somewhat?] consistent with the game world and I appreciate the limited player count must make it difficult to find opponents during your playtime
Jesterthegreat
18-05-05, 18:27
i nf as and when i can... as i said i prefer i nice duel to ppu butt plugs :p
Dribble Joy
18-05-05, 19:01
as for symps meaning so much more, i agree... if they make symp harder to get.
as it stands symp is much easier to keep high than SL, this would only increase the "pker problem"
A complete reorg is needed regarding the whole symp/SL thing.
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