View Full Version : TL10 Heal
Well now that there is a TL10 heal added to the game it seems that KK are trying to fill a gap in the spells line up.
Though it would be nice if it had artifact quality and other players would be able to buy it somewhere only it would be at 90% quality.
Also does the TL10 Heal drop when you die? if so how is a newbie meant to get another?
Maybe they should add a TL12 Shelther. Would help the newbies against the preachers in aggies and also allow spies to have shelter without needing drugs too.
Heavyporker
02-05-05, 22:36
No to both proposals.
Newbies overwhelmingly usually have their LEs in, so cannot drop anything.
And Preachers are merely annoying.
Dribble Joy
02-05-05, 22:48
The damned thing is unbalancing enough in it's mere existance, I am sure we are going to have a gaggle of shelter/tl10 heal using APUs roaming the servers.
It's not much use even to a PE atm, I have 103 psu and will barely be able to cap the freq even if I put in an ultima and freq mod (mines 2 slot).
mines 4 :P i can cap it pritty nicely i think if i whack in a ultima freq damage and handeling i think, ill have to check the mod amounts l8er, im slowly lomming my hybreed to use shelter and that heal instead of blessed heal
Jesterthegreat
02-05-05, 23:54
The damned thing is unbalancing enough in it's mere existance, I am sure we are going to have a gaggle of shelter/tl10 heal using APUs roaming the servers.
It's not much use even to a PE atm, I have 103 psu and will barely be able to cap the freq even if I put in an ultima and freq mod (mines 2 slot).
i have 100 base psu and i cap my 103% freq one.
only 490% damage on the 101% dmg one though...
ill transfer my 106%dmg one to av joe later
The damned thing is unbalancing enough in it's mere existance, I am sure we are going to have a gaggle of shelter/tl10 heal using APUs roaming the servers.
It's not much use even to a PE atm, I have 103 psu and will barely be able to cap the freq even if I put in an ultima and freq mod (mines 2 slot).
And whats your point? It is meant as a Monk spell as its only the monk newbie mission that gives it.
Also why shouldn't there be a heal in between the Tl3 Crahn Heal and the TL52 Crahn Blessed Heal quite a large gap for something that basically keeps you alive!
Just looked up neocron.ems.ru data for heals should still be accurate.
TL3 Crahn Heal : heal 45-105 / 15sec
TL52 Crahn Blessed Heal : heal 165-315 / 15sec
Big gap there... Also just for comparison though not relavent in PvP situations.
TL15 Crahn Heal Group : heal 60-120 / 15sec (only 42/min freq though)
cos its much better than a tl3 heal when u cap it for a apu
oh and the gap exists to stop hybreeding, thats the whole reason there are these huge gaps, kk wants u either apu or ppu, not a imortal godlike HH HS HD weilding FA HL blasting god who just cant be killed cos he can stealth lmao
the gaps wernt so great ages ago, its a balancing thing
Jesterthegreat
03-05-05, 00:00
cos its much better than a tl3 heal when u cap it for a apu
and a blessed is much better than that.
thats the point in having different types of the same weapon / spell.
cos its much better than a tl3 heal when u cap it for a apu
oh and the gap exists to stop hybreeding, thats the whole reason there are these huge gaps, kk wants u either apu or ppu, not a imortal godlike HH HS HD weilding FA HL blasting god who just cant be killed cos he can stealth lmao
the gaps wernt so great ages ago, its a balancing thing
Yes I know we don't want HH/HL using hybrids but thats irrelavent.
I'm talking about the huge gap in general.
A better Heal that the TL3 but certainly not as good as the TL52.
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to get a decent TL10 Heal for a tank?
So that you can actually heal your 550+ health without waiting several minutes?
Jesterthegreat
03-05-05, 00:10
with the req's on the tl10 i doubt many tanks will use it.
i would be all for moving it to tl 25 and upping the req's though... usefull for ppu's to level, pretty much gimppage for other classes, little more point loss for hybs :p
with the req's on the tl10 i doubt many tanks will use it.
i would be all for moving it to tl 25 and upping the req's though... usefull for ppu's to level, pretty much gimppage for other classes, little more point loss for hybs :p
Yeah i like that idea... still would be nice to have a slightly better heal for tanks as they take forever to heal but with out shelter it wouldn't over power them.
That brings me on to my next point though i was thinking that we could do with a new shelter spell somewhere around TL12 for low lvl monks and spies to use but i noticed then a tank could drug for it and therefore have shelter and a TL10 heal so i'm thinking that would over power tanks.
So how about lowering the TL25 Shelter to TL20. Good for leveling monks and would keep the spy population happy too. (Not an easy thing to do with people complaining that they have difficultly capping resists and capping damage on their slasher using PE!)
Yes I know we don't want HH/HL using hybrids but thats irrelavent.
I'm talking about the huge gap in general.
A better Heal that the TL3 but certainly not as good as the TL52.
Wouldn't it be nice to be able to get a decent TL10 Heal for a tank?
So that you can actually heal your 550+ health without waiting several minutes?
my tank uses medi kits, or recriational units, or ppus, couppled with a tl3 hel i heal pritty fast with the first 2, the ppu option im heled in a second or so lol
my tank uses medi kits, or recriational units, or ppus, couppled with a tl3 hel i heal pritty fast with the first 2, the ppu option im heled in a second or so lol
Is a medi kit still faster than a TL3 heal when healing a tank?
I think it used to be a good bit quicker. o_O
currently lvls for psi modules in the game are some of the only things ime happy with, unles u make a maximum requierment (OMG GENIOUS) like apu under a certain lvl then dont do it,
currently monks hybreeding have to invest alot of points to get any kind of result in both apu and ppu, when ur going pure this isnt that hard to reach, when ur going hybreed this is hell to reach, thats the whole point, if u start filling the gapps, hybreeds will be tweaking there settups to squeeze even more healing powers out of there setup withough sacraficeing the massive damage that they can deal,
maby make some device useable by non monk classes, sumin along the lines of it damages the body, or it cases trauma to heal, and still drains on psi pool,
so monks would be to phisicaly weak to use but any str of a certain amount could use, say 30 str, call it a psi regeneration device lol,
basicaly all im saying is if u give tanks spys and pe's extra stuf ur enevitably giving monks the ability to become even more powerfull
currently lvls for psi modules in the game are some of the only things ime happy with, unles u make a maximum requierment (OMG GENIOUS) like apu under a certain lvl then dont do it,
currently monks hybreeding have to invest alot of points to get any kind of result in both apu and ppu, when ur going pure this isnt that hard to reach, when ur going hybreed this is hell to reach, thats the whole point, if u start filling the gapps, hybreeds will be tweaking there settups to squeeze even more healing powers out of there setup withough sacraficeing the massive damage that they can deal,
maby make some device useable by non monk classes, sumin along the lines of it damages the body, or it cases trauma to heal, and still drains on psi pool,
so monks would be to phisicaly weak to use but any str of a certain amount could use, say 30 str, call it a psi regeneration device lol,
basicaly all im saying is if u give tanks spys and pe's extra stuf ur enevitably giving monks the ability to become even more powerfull
Well a tank could do with a better heal as heal, def, br1 and a combat booster1 are all he can use.
I wouldn't want it so only PE's and Monks can cap it though, that would fuck spies over bigtime unless they get a TL20 Shelter compensate.
Though with 20 PSI you'd think a spy could cap a TL10 Heal.
Also how much health it heals per tick needs to be based on its TL. I think atm the TL10 is slightly overpowered.
Its quite simple if you've been around long enough too see the nerfs laid down o monks KK doesn't want to make it easier for the hybrids to function easily, this new heal was aimed mainly at newbies and people expected to go ppu later on rather than anything remotely resembling a hybrid. I seriously don't expect anymore spells at this level, infact I highly suspect that it will get caught in the rebalancing of the newbie rewards now on the books. If you want to be a hybrid at the moment you have very few choices most decent hybrids don't even use PA's. or you can take the PA swaping style which can be worked to use every single spell in the game, but ur still not going to be using but the standard basic level spells while the ppu PA's off and your certainly never going to cap damage so Pvping in this style not really gonna work.
Theres another way around this though but it would wipe out hybrids pritty much, and would require some heavy coding.
You introduce a new class.. well basicly divide the monk class up into a healer and apu type class and reclassify the spells with user class restrictions on all spells above the basic ones perhaps say the basic ones are the range a PE can use now with capped psi.
Its quite simple if you've been around long enough too see the nerfs laid down o monks KK doesn't want to make it easier for the hybrids to function easily, this new heal was aimed mainly at newbies and people expected to go ppu later on rather than anything remotely resembling a hybrid. I seriously don't expect anymore spells at this level, infact I highly suspect that it will get caught in the rebalancing of the newbie rewards now on the books. If you want to be a hybrid at the moment you have very few choices most decent hybrids don't even use PA's. or you can take the PA swaping style which can be worked to use every single spell in the game, but ur still not going to be using but the standard basic level spells while the ppu PA's off and your certainly never going to cap damage so Pvping in this style not really gonna work.
Theres another way around this though but it would wipe out hybrids pritty much, and would require some heavy coding.
You introduce a new class.. well basicly divide the monk class up into a healer and apu type class and reclassify the spells with user class restrictions on all spells above the basic ones perhaps say the basic ones are the range a PE can use now with capped psi.
Well wiping out hybirds would be a very bad idea. They when setup to your liking are the most enjoyable class in the game. You can hunt solo with not much problem do good damage and just have fun really. Even PvP if your keen. O_o
or make modules class pecific, make it sumin like the modules have to be modified to work with dna sequencing,
monks have one set of psi modules, tanks another spys another pe's another
or make modules class pecific, make it sumin like the modules have to be modified to work with dna sequencing,
monks have one set of psi modules, tanks another spys another pe's another
That would restrict peoples choices abit too much i think.
If the TL10 healed at a rate camparable to its TL it would be fine to allow it to be sold via a smuggler or vendor. The newbies should get rewarded with an artifact stat version. It would allow the newbie to cap it and use it to its full more easily.
hybrids by definition could be considered any class in the game, especially pes. i dont know why people take the piss out on hybrid monks the most, they are gimping their attack or their defensive modules when going hybrid. not to mention making a half decent hybrid setup is terribly difficult, it is terribly difficult to use. if you take away hybrids, then you'll just have more really awesome ppus and apus running around owning everyone, then you'll gimp them, make ppus pointless, and end up having just apus, and eventually they will all stop using monks in general. gimp something, and you gimp urself, it just makes your character class the next best thing, and next in line to the gimp-o-coaster.
hybrids by definition could be considered any class in the game, especially pes. i dont know why people take the piss out on hybrid monks the most, they are gimping their attack or their defensive modules when going hybrid. not to mention making a half decent hybrid setup is terribly difficult, it is terribly difficult to use. if you take away hybrids, then you'll just have more really awesome ppus and apus running around owning everyone, then you'll gimp them, make ppus pointless, and end up having just apus, and eventually they will all stop using monks in general. gimp something, and you gimp urself, it just makes your character class the next best thing, and next in line to the gimp-o-coaster.
Well said!
Just give everyone the opportunatey to get and use a TL10 Heal, as long as its rate of Heal is comparable to its TL.
Most people who have hybrids also have a ppu or apu or both...
Jesterthegreat
03-05-05, 08:50
the heal is usable by a tank... hsould you choose to gimp for it
Bugs Gunny
03-05-05, 09:44
Even PvP if your keen. O_o
LOL.
Hybrids take out most other classes easy.
That's why KK doesn't realy have much love for them, they're a ballancing nightmare, as long as apu's and ppu's exist.
just did a check on my new ppu:
PSI level 24, 81 ppu, 50 ppw = 550% (24 int also, all in psu).
LOL.
Hybrids take out most other classes easy.
That's why KK doesn't realy have much love for them, they're a ballancing nightmare, as long as apu's and ppu's exist.
thats a good point but it seems dumb to me that kk say
Live your life the way you want to! Choose to be a hacker, a spy, an assassin, a collector, or a broker....the list is endless.
looks to me like the list ends just before hybrid imo, i dot have a hybrid if thats what anyone is thinking.
I just find it amusing that kk put something like this on a cover of their game and then think no wait......we can let em go hybrid quick get the nerf hammer :lol:
Cant find the note where it says a TL 10 heal has been added, and cant login due to the game client not displaying login screen yet.
Whats the deal with TL 10 heal?
Who sells it?
What quality?
Is it a quest?
or? what?
Original monk
03-05-05, 11:43
Cant find the note where it says a TL 10 heal has been added, and cant login due to the game client not displaying login screen yet.
Whats the deal with TL 10 heal?
Who sells it?
What quality?
Is it a quest?
or? what?
its a new newbie quest for the field medic, you start a new char and morpheus, mr. jones even pops up giving you a mission .. when you succesfully! complete the mission you get a random slotted heal (i got lucky .. 5 slotter for the first time/first and only mission i did till now, pop in an ultima and tadaa)
you should start a new char and try the mission, in runner help there's some guides
naimex : newbie mission item only,random slots, stats 70-76
Dribble Joy
03-05-05, 12:25
i have 100 base psu and i cap my 103% freq one.
only 490% damage on the 101% dmg one though...
ill transfer my 106%dmg one to av joe later
Exatcly, most people do not have that kind of PSU specced, and when the skills are ever fixed it will be even harder to cap.
The main problem with hybrids is their self heal capacity, that was my main point.
Jesterthegreat
03-05-05, 13:27
Exatcly, most people do not have that kind of PSU specced, and when the skills are ever fixed it will be even harder to cap.
The main problem with hybrids is their self heal capacity, that was my main point.
i use a judge with that setup... any pe who specs for >tl 100 weapons should expect to sacrifice something.
ok its a no hack PE setup... but 115 wep lore /w self buffs + imps and the rest in psu.
not exactly an odd setup. 115 wep lore is enough, and i choose not to hack for combat effectiveness.
Dribble Joy
03-05-05, 13:40
I'm a little confused now...
I can't remember my exact point that I was trying to get across.
Ah, people were saying that it would be great for all PEs, when it's not...
Jesterthegreat
03-05-05, 13:41
It's not much use even to a PE atm, I have 103 psu and will barely be able to cap the freq even if I put in an ultima and freq mod (mines 2 slot).
no no... you were saying its not good for PE's.
you also said you dont have much less psu than me.
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 13:47
a non capped tl10 heal heals better than a capped tl3 heal, just depends on the stats.
if u dont cap it on a spy.. dont use a shelter then.
and btw, PEs could use something like a tl10 heal as they didnt have a stealth for about half a year or something? longer than that.
(remove noobstealth completely tbh, PEs having stealth is just idiotic.)
remove stealth will encourage ppl to get better setups, it will encourage them to engage PvP, therefor they'll get PvP experience, and will eventually be better in it.
stealth fucks up the PvP in this game, and since this is the best PvP game ive EVER played i think KK should remove stealth, maybe keep it the way it was, for spies only, but then remove stealth 3 + rare stealth.
Jesterthegreat
03-05-05, 13:49
a non capped tl10 heal heals better than a capped tl3 heal, just depends on the stats.
if u dont cap it on a spy.. dont use a shelter then.
and btw, PEs could use something like a tl10 heal as they didnt have a stealth for about half a year or something? longer than that.
(remove noobstealth completely tbh, PEs having stealth is just idiotic.)
remove stealth will encourage ppl to get better setups, it will encourage them to engage PvP, therefor they'll get PvP experience, and will eventually be better in it.
stealth fucks up the PvP in this game, and since this is the best PvP game ive EVER played i think KK should remove stealth, maybe keep it the way it was, for spies only, but then remove stealth 3 + rare stealth.
meh... i hate stealth.
but do i use it?
yes.
my sniper (ab)uses stealth to the max... as perma -32 (or worse) SL that stealth tool looks real good ;)
and my pe... i dont stealth in combat, but if im runnin somewhere and dont wanna waste drugs to buff and be ready to fight, its a nice little "traveling" tool
Dribble Joy
03-05-05, 13:54
Ah, people were saying that it would be great for all PEs, when it's not...
no no... you were saying its not good for PE's.
:confused:
I would have a lot more PSU if I didn't poke 115.
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 13:55
true that, jester,
but using stealth to avoid pvp, not the "travelling way" you mentioned, is bad i think. I know for a fact that ur setup aint bad, u know how to handle urself,
but ppl stealth the very second they see someone aiming a CS or whatever at them, thats lame.
those ppl prolly run with stealthtool ready to stealth when (not) needed.
those ppl, i bet, have crappy resists / a crappy setup.
if you have a good setup, why fear getting shot?
coz u cant aim? well that practise pvp ffs!
(not aimed at u jester :p)
Jesterthegreat
03-05-05, 13:57
:confused:
I would have a lot more PSU if I didn't poke 115.
where did i say it would be great for all PE's?
i said i cap freq.
thats like saying if i spec all poison... my nrg resist is low... so pe's have low nrg resist?
you choose to spec poke (usefull to you and others of course), over something to assist you in combat... fair enough. but most pe's i know are combat chars.
Dribble Joy
03-05-05, 13:58
Most PEs will still be not able to use it as well as a tl3.
What are we even arguing for btw?
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 13:59
for the removal of noob stealth offcourse DJ
Dribble Joy
03-05-05, 14:00
And para :p.
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 14:00
amen :D
i use a judge with that setup... any pe who specs for >tl 100 weapons should expect to sacrifice something.
ok its a no hack PE setup... but 115 wep lore /w self buffs + imps and the rest in psu.
not exactly an odd setup. 115 wep lore is enough, and i choose not to hack for combat effectiveness.
Erm....my PE uses a slasher setup and he can still cap all stats on the slasher and have around 110 PSU (can't remember exact number)
Dribble Joy
03-05-05, 14:03
Erm....my PE uses a slasher setup and he can still cap all stats on the slasher and have around 110 PSU (can't remember exact number)
How much WEP do you have though? I'm sure that you would have to get rid of a lot of psu if they fix the skills.
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 14:03
had 140 PSU on my lowtech rifle..
BEAT THAT ! o_O
Jesterthegreat
03-05-05, 14:04
had 140 PSU on my lowtech rifle..
BEAT THAT ! o_O
well my wyatt pe had 15 base wep and all the rest in psu... but i REALLY gotta go to work
Dribble Joy
03-05-05, 14:08
NS, 15 base wep, gaya glove = 161 psu
If I didn't spec imp, I would have 129.
had 140 PSU on my lowtech rifle..
BEAT THAT ! o_O
does that mean you had a good setup badboi ice.
@ Jester go to work already then!1!!!11111oneoneoneleven
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 14:11
i had BLACK SOUL's setup.. so yeh i had a good setup.
(i had a better setup tbh)
i capped freq on shelter, almost cap on blessed def.
only downside = constant drugging, even to use a simple tl3 heal...
capping tl 10 heal will be easy as hell.
con setup btw was good, therefor im against stealth, i dont need it.
once was fighting 3 CS tanks at the same time.. i won..
not that my aim was way better than theirs (ok.. thats also a reason) but coz i took WAY more dmg than they ever could.
I even switched to a fire termi coz i was getting bored :rolleyes:
fire stacks for win tbh
(no im not the best PE around, sometimes i couldnt hit anything, most times i won coz i could take shitloads of damage)
tankies sux0red to the max then tbh
prolly kept shooting them selfs, having a CS doenst mean ur g00d
How much WEP do you have though? I'm sure that you would have to get rid of a lot of psu if they fix the skills.
I have around 125 WEP I think....."fix the skills"? They are fixed the way I see it
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 14:18
tankies sux0red to the max then tbh
prolly kept shooting them selfs, having a CS doenst mean ur g00d well tbh they shot eachother half the time :rolleyes:
but sssshhhh, lemme enjoy my victory ;)
Dribble Joy
03-05-05, 14:19
The skills are seriously borked atm after the last few changes. I can full cap my judge with 55 wep and 172 PC, something that previously I needed my Kami to do.
Bugs Gunny
03-05-05, 14:21
I think that as a pe fighting 3 cs tanks, you have to use that to you advantage and make them shoot each other :-)
That's probably how he won, just dbing em, casting his own heal and run circles around and in between them lol.
Dribble Joy
03-05-05, 14:23
Fighting multiple enemies or a simgle target as a team can be a right pain in the arse if you aren't an APU.
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 14:28
I think that as a pe fighting 3 cs tanks, you have to use that to you advantage and make them shoot each other :-)
That's probably how he won, just dbing em, casting his own heal and run circles around and in between them lol.
thats the way u should fight when fighting multiple enemies, take advantage of their (missing) cs bursts..
a PE who doesnt use a DB vs a tank is just plain stupid tbh.
i did however do more dmg to them than they did to themselves.
well tbh they shot eachother half the time :rolleyes:
but sssshhhh, lemme enjoy my victory ;)
rgr, enjoy :D
Bugs Gunny
03-05-05, 14:32
The skills are seriously borked atm after the last few changes. I can full cap my judge with 55 wep and 172 PC, something that previously I needed my Kami to do.
Dribble, so you think all the old hybrids should keep saying that the spell requirements etc need to get fixed again, because things are no longer as they used to be?
Things change, and you don't realy see everybody running around being a slasher pe do you? Except for the fighter(apu)-ppu combo this game is close to ballanced now.
Fully capping a tl10 heal will however make pe's a bit harder to kill. Damn, maybe people will be tl3healing pe's too soon.
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 14:43
Bugs, no matter howmany nerfs the monks get,
APU/PPU combo will always be the best combo there is, unless you have a tank/ppu combo thats really fekking uber.
a good tank with a ppu can kill an apu/ppu combo, he cant miss many shots tho.
if the PPU focusses, he can still manage to get a tl 25 on the enemy APU, then they'll win.
and besides that, everyone has at least 1 monk in their char slots.
unless u really are an anti-monk player offcourse
Bugs, no matter howmany nerfs the monks get,
APU/PPU combo will always be the best combo there is, unless you have a tank/ppu combo thats really fekking uber.
a good tank with a ppu can kill an apu/ppu combo, he cant miss many shots tho.
if the PPU focusses, he can still manage to get a tl 25 on the enemy APU, then they'll win.
and besides that, everyone has at least 1 monk in their char slots.
unless u really are an anti-monk player offcourse
hahahaha apu/ppu combo ubar? not yesterday, tactics > ppu buffed apu
Bugs Gunny
03-05-05, 14:48
I find tl3heal/thunderbolt/dev combo works realy well on monks.
I was just trying to make a point about DJ, claiming that the game is bugged because his setup changed due to some patches....
I mean, cmon how many times has everyone had to lom due to changes in patches?
Things change. Tanks finaly get good combatranks and have somewhat of an aim. Pistol pe's are at least viable now. You still don't see them at op wars a a lot. That's all monks nowadays.
Dribble Joy
03-05-05, 14:49
Dribble, so you think all the old hybrids should keep saying that the spell requirements etc need to get fixed again, because things are no longer as they used to be?
Things change, and you don't realy see everybody running around being a slasher pe do you? Except for the fighter(apu)-ppu combo this game is close to ballanced now.
You have missed my point entirely.
(it's got nothing to do with monks anyway)
The HC/PC/RC skill system pre patch 124 was much more balanced and finely tined than what we have now.
There were distinct choices between defence and offencive capacity, which are no longer with us. Everyone now can stuff themselves with defensive imps, get the stats to use the right items and then full cap their weapons, usually with enough left over for a shit load fo other stuff.
Ask Lupus, the changes made in the skill alterations was intended to only change things slightly (I didn't agree with where he was taking thing s personally, it would have lead to more cookie cuttering), but they went wrong.
I was just trying to make a point about DJ, claiming that the game is bugged because his setup changed due to some patches....
I mean, cmon how many times has everyone had to lom due to changes in patches?
Dude.
If I was in the same room as you right now I would bitch slap you so hard.
Things change. Tanks finaly get good combatranks and have somewhat of an aim.
Combat rank is irrelevent and has nothing to do with this, it can be altered anyway.
As for tank aim, yes, the old system was not perfect, The current HC/MC one is hardly better.
Pistol pe's are at least viable now.
They were viable before (remember that the CS is still about 15% more powerful than intended after it's accidental boost), they are if anything, too powerful now.
I have a highly defensive setup, yet I fully cap my weapon, a weapon 20 TLs above my stat cap. Previously there was a choice where you could forego defensive capacity to increase your offence, by either ditching say a PPR for a dist3 or another +dex imp to reach another weapon.
That choice is no longer there, or if it is is so tiny it's virtually ignored.
You still don't see them at op wars a a lot. That's all monks nowadays.
Only due to other factors, not PEs themselves.
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 14:49
u'll see when im ppu for chopo ;)
used to be me + BAD ASS, and the other way around, BAD ASS ppuing for me
then me + smurf (:()
they cant take the heat of following my orders :p
do this, do that.
im the ppu, my word is final.
when u talk to me, you say sir, is that clear? :p
Doc Holliday
03-05-05, 15:06
which way is this thread going? lets all boast about how good we are/how good our setups are or lets cry nerf over something new or complain about how its balanced/imbalanced. im reading 3 different avenues of discussion here its very interesting ;)
havent tried the new patch. dont have time still sadly but i dont really see why a tl10 heal would be all that bad....... if it helps the noob then perfect.
Heres an amazing idea for the noob items. Restrict them to the noobs. do the same trick as the le but lower the rank down to 25/30ish.
On the monk subject just tone down the holy heal a tad more and tone down some of the hit power of the mobs ie mc5 etc. this would help pvp alot as the insta heals that exist now wouldnt be so powerful. then you wouldnt need as many people piling the ppu to kill him. make him less godlike. at the same time maybe increase the psi powers of other classes slightly. the pe could be the secondary healer on the battlefield.
Just ideas. flame if you will.
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 15:12
love the noob idea, hate the monk idea.
(think that was u "crying" for a nerf here m8 ?)
Original monk
03-05-05, 15:16
Dude.
If I was in the same room as you right now I would bitch slap you so hard.
MHUAHAHHAHAHAHAHA :D LoL
ok nm,
a few simple things for this thread:
-dont wipe stealth (i yust did the mission :P) but give it a restrict like: spy only ...
-leave the heal alone, its nice, only for the fact it doesnt drop its nice allready :)
-remove para
ty for listening
Doc Holliday
03-05-05, 15:18
love the noob idea, hate the monk idea.
(think that was u "crying" for a nerf here m8 ?)
where? the nerf thing? that idea posted is my idea i wanted to put in callashes thread months ago. i stopped by here bored one day and had a read of it. couldnt post so i left it.
think about it logically now. the ppus "god power" is reduced. maybe tweak the apus damage too so they are less but i mean tweak not nerf. they suggested lowering mob damage in that thread afaik. it will make mc5 a tad easier or harder maybe but what ever the point is the pvp aspect here isnt it?
your in an op fight you have the enemy tank you have been battling with on the ropes, he runs to the ppu and as it stands he can be on full health in seconds. lower the ability of the holy heal down some and you have a fighting chance of nailing him with or without shelter.
hell you can even lower shelter a touch as well. it will lessen the godlike power of one class without actually overpowering anyone else.
thats balance isnt it?
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 15:25
where? the nerf thing? that idea posted is my idea i wanted to put in callashes thread months ago. i stopped by here bored one day and had a read of it. couldnt post so i left it.
think about it logically now. the ppus "god power" is reduced. maybe tweak the apus damage too so they are less but i mean tweak not nerf. they suggested lowering mob damage in that thread afaik. it will make mc5 a tad easier or harder maybe but what ever the point is the pvp aspect here isnt it?
your in an op fight you have the enemy tank you have been battling with on the ropes, he runs to the ppu and as it stands he can be on full health in seconds. lower the ability of the holy heal down some and you have a fighting chance of nailing him with or without shelter.
hell you can even lower shelter a touch as well. it will lessen the godlike power of one class without actually overpowering anyone else.
thats balance isnt it?
its balance alright, but
the (holy) shelter already got nerfed when we changed to nc2.
if i take dmg from 10 ppl in nc2, i'd die or almost die.
do the same thing back in nc1, id be on full health or near full health still.
though ur idea would be easier for FF to kill enemy PPUs.
and seeing as they already zerg the enemy 3/4 to 1...
but in stead of tweaking the monks, you can leave the monks AND the mobs the way they are, and tweak the output dmg of spies, tanks and PEs in stead.. let them to more damage.
its quite simple, tank were made to take AND do shitloads of damage.
the way it is now, tanks do about as much damage as PE with RoG.
a spy with a healing light does more damage than a tank with a CS (PvM)
a spy with a slasher will do more damage, simply coz its RoF is higher than any other weapon.
up the damage for tank/PEs mainly, that'll bring balance.
spies and monks are fine imo
Exatcly, most people do not have that kind of PSU specced, and when the skills are ever fixed it will be even harder to cap.
The main problem with hybrids is their self heal capacity, that was my main point.
Thats the whole point of being a hybrid... if you can't heal decently you might aswell be a pure APU eating tons of Medi Kits.
And the original point of this thread was that newbies should recieve an Artifact Stat TL10 Heal as their reward.
And that a everyone else should be able to buy a normal store bought stat TL10 Heal aswell.
We needs to be fixed is how much PPU and PSU it takes to cap it (currently too much for a TL10 Spell) and how much it Heals per tick (also apparently too much considering its only TL10 yet heal's more like a TL52 Blessed Heal).
Dribble Joy
03-05-05, 15:41
The point of a hybrid with high ppu is to increase your defensive powers, which on the face of it heals do, that does not mean that it is balanced.
The point of a hybrid with high ppu is to increase your defensive powers, which on the face of it heals do, that does not mean that it is balanced.
Sure it does. Unless the Hybrid is setup in in a way that he can use HH and when he gets a PSI Combat 3 buff he can put on APU PA to use HL then its usually balanced.
Blessed Hybrids have a hard time using anything better than a PSI Attack 2. And to a PE that spell doesn't do alot of damage. Also they won't have capped their Blessed Heal or shelter either so a PE could easily take one on a win. Especially as a blessed hybrid most likely won't have capped his attack spell so not much run casting going on and they have a very small PSI pool usually <290.
The only problem is APU's with PE buffs and they aren't that hard to kill really. They're just like a normal apu only they can take a little more punishment. But as they can only use a TL3 Heal they won't be able to outheal their opponent.
The problem atm is the TL10 is too strong (Heals too much for its TL) and too hard to cap for the people that would normally be using it (the newbies).
i used to have a 5 slot tl3 heal that worked fine for me..
Dribble Joy
03-05-05, 16:15
Blessed Hybrids have a hard time using anything better than a PSI Attack 2. And to a PE that spell doesn't do alot of damage.
Not the point, this is about heals.
Also they won't have capped their Blessed Heal or shelter either so a PE could easily take one on a win.
A PE cannot beat a properly setup blessed hybrid, a blessed heal (especially along with a blessed shelter) will easily out heal a PE. That is my point, blessed heal is too strong for combat characters, it is inherently unfair and unbalanced that any combat class should have the capacity to out heal another.
Even if they are not outhealing completely, the rate at which they take dmg is so greatly reduced that their effective defensive capacity is magnified exponentially. This makes them unbalanced even in the face of tanks and APUs.
Heals are the reason this game is so unbalanced, it's the key reason why PPUs have such an effect and why it is so hard to balance hybrids.
Thats the whole point of being a hybrid... if you can't heal decently you might aswell be a pure APU eating tons of Medi Kits.
And the original point of this thread was that newbies should recieve an Artifact Stat TL10 Heal as their reward.
And that a everyone else should be able to buy a normal store bought stat TL10 Heal aswell.
We needs to be fixed is how much PPU and PSU it takes to cap it (currently too much for a TL10 Spell) and how much it Heals per tick (also apparently too much considering its only TL10 yet heal's more like a TL52 Blessed Heal).
Well, TL3 heals 6 points/tick, TL10 9 points/tick and blessed 15 points/tick (I think, not sure about that one). Maybe they should lower it to 8 points/tick for TL10 to be more in line with the TLs
Bugs Gunny
03-05-05, 16:19
i've beaten hybrids on a pistol spy, but that was because i was able to stick on two tl3 heals in a row. If you can time your heals etc you can beat them, but NO way can you beat them on a pe, when they have their own heals and buffs going.
Not the point, this is about heals.
I do know what the point is i did start the thread.
Its about the TL10 Heal being too hard for newbies (who its originally intended for) to cap. It Heal's too much for its TL.
And it should be available for all to buy at store bought stats. Newbies receive an Artifact Stat TL10 Heal as their reward.
A PE cannot beat a properly setup blessed hybrid, a blessed heal (especially along with a blessed shelter) will easily out heal a PE. That is my point, blessed heal is too strong for combat characters, it is inherently unfair and unbalanced that any combat class should have the capacity to out heal another.
Even if they are not outhealing completely, the rate at which they take dmg is so greatly reduced that their effective defensive capacity is magnified exponentially. This makes them unbalanced even in the face of tanks and APUs.
Heals are the reason this game is so unbalanced, it's the key reason why PPUs have such an effect and why it is so hard to balance hybrids.
Well if you think no combat class should be able to outheal another then lets get rid of PE's. You know as well as i do that PE's can outheal virtually anyone except apu's which they can usually kill quickly. The fact that a well setup PE has resists not far off a Tank yet has decent damage % on his shelter and can basically runcast his heal kinda makes the whole PE class overpowered then do you not think?
Well, TL3 heals 6 points/tick, TL10 9 points/tick and blessed 15 points/tick (I think, not sure about that one). Maybe they should lower it to 8 points/tick for TL10 to be more in line with the TLs
Yeah thats what i mean. Good simple suggestion too.
i've beaten hybrids on a pistol spy, but that was because i was able to stick on two tl3 heals in a row. If you can time your heals etc you can beat them, but NO way can you beat them on a pe, when they have their own heals and buffs going.
A paineaser or terminator using PE could beat them. And the PE would have great resists too.
DJ should be able to beat a Blessed Hybrid too, as he uses a Xray Judge. Fair enough it should take awhile as both chars would have good resists and buffs. But if the PE gets a damage boost on the blessed hybrid the PE should win. With a small pool and lots of spells and only 2 or 3 Psi Boosters in his quickblet you can make the Blessed Hybird run very low on PSI Energy especially if he has to heal alot and beat him that way too!
I know this is basically irrelavent now as KK seem to have made the xbow a WOC item but a PE using the xbow can easily beat a blessed hybird. Well i say easily only if the PE has good aim. Nothing is easy if you can't aim for shit! :lol:
Netphreak it doesnt sound like you have ever had a pe or blessed hybrid. I had a blessed hyb for a few months and it was so powerful that it got boring killing people. It was just too easy to take out anyone as long as they didnt have a ppu (or were another hybrid), hell as a hybrid I could kill a apu in a apu/ppu team if I was doing well. And I usto be able to have a PE just stand there and shoot me with their anything they wanted and I could out heal anything but a HC PE with a speed gat so blessed hybrids need their blessed heals a little nerfed (I dont want them useless just a little nerf).
And you think a PE is over powerd!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:.
Ok enough of that. A good tank/apu/spy can take out a good pe in any fight.
Netphreak it doesnt sound like you have ever had a pe or blessed hybrid. I had a blessed hyb for a few months and it was so powerful that it got boring killing people. It was just too easy to take out anyone as long as they didnt have a ppu (or were another hybrid), hell as a hybrid I could kill a apu in a apu/ppu team if I was doing well. And I usto be able to have a PE just stand there and shoot me with their anything they wanted and I could out heal anything but a HC PE with a speed gat so blessed hybrids need their blessed heals a little nerfed (I dont want them useless just a little nerf).
And you think a PE is over powerd!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:.
Ok enough of that. A good tank/apu/spy can take out a good pe in any fight.
Ok lets see....
I have currently:
Blessed Hybrid
Hi-tech Pistol PE
Low-tech Rifle PE
Hi-tech Rifle Spy
Hi-tech Pistol Spy
H-C Tank
H-C PE
So i think i've a fair idea what i'm talking about. Sure i'm not the greatest PvPer around and i don't have the luxury of mc5 chips but i have fun.
I find my blessed hybrid isn't as strong as my HL using PE buff Hybrid i had a couple off months ago.
A low-tech rifle PE rips through Monks in general. Infact i'm sure many know xantor he used RoG/termi and simply owned whoever came his way.
Pistol PE's do have it harder but Judge does good damage against monks. And if you use your speed you can make the hybrid miss cast and as blessed hybrids can't run cast this is a big issue.
And yes Blessed Heal needs nerfed abit infact so does Holy Heal but that would need to be followed with mob damage reduction.
Just out of curiousity what did you use for an attack spell?
Did you use PA?
And i presume you weren't getting psi combat 3 buffs all the time either.
Anyways lets get back on topic before Nid comes with his NidHammer and closes this thread!
The TL10 Heal reward for newbies should be Artifact Quality
The rest of us should be able to buy a TL10 Heal at store bought quality with random slottage
It needs to be very slightly nerfed as its too strong for its low TL
It needs to be easier to cap as its too hard to cap for it TL
Blessed Heal needs to be Nerfed as we discussed and Holy Heal should be nerfed but only when mob damage is nerfed too!
These changes could open up the possiblity for everyone to hunt successfully either solo or with 1 or 2 other people. To have fun hunting without the need for a PPU.
How about shelter/deflector self-cast only?
And TL-10 heal sounds fun.
Ok first off if you don't have a DS and you are a hybrid then that is not a combat setup. A blessed hyb with a DS can cap freq on all of his atack spells and get 2-3 freq away from caping his ppu spells (this is with all self buffs). If you set up your con right you can even take a dev for over 2 min non stop (point blank range) before you will drop with self buffs so please don't tell me what hybrids can and can't do.
[TgR]KILLER
03-05-05, 17:57
what about removing the tl 10 heal and give them something else that doesn't screw up -_-
not even gonna read the thread but kk is digging their own grave on this one.. they are all looking for ways to balance ppu's and stuff and then they come up with some overpowered TL 10 heal lol.
Ok first off if you don't have a DS and you are a hybrid then that is not a combat setup. A blessed hyb with a DS can cap freq on all of his atack spells and get 2-3 freq away from caping his ppu spells (this is with all self buffs). If you set up your con right you can even take a dev for over 2 min non stop (point blank range) before you will drop with self buffs so please don't tell me what hybrids can and can't do.
Thats right because i don't have the time and patience and PPU friends to go to mc5 for serveral weeks to get a DS that means i can't PvP a blessed Hybrid.
Atm my PSI is infact only 89 due to lots of loming here and there.
But i do have 122 PPU and 108 APU and about 102/min freq on my crappy PSI Attack 2. But i don't cap damage on it! So i can't run cast.
You've just said yourself what we've been trying to say Blessed Heal is overpowered and the TL10 is slightly overpowered yet too hard to cap for a TL10 spell!
Its the Blessed Heal that makes Blessed Hybrids too strong.
So why not nerf blessed heal to solve that problem and slightly reduce the TL10 heal and make it available to all. Only the newbie will recieve a Artifact Stat TL10 heal as a reward for their quest.
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 18:13
but NO way can you beat them on a pe, when they have their own heals and buffs going. i can
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 18:28
A good tank/apu/spy can take out a good pe in any fight.
good tank vs good PE .. tank wins? im not sure about that one.
a full clip of CS (no missed bursts) fucks up a PE pretty damn good.
but then again, PEs have a shelter, plus they regenerate better since they cap their heal.
so I dunno, a really good PE can take out a good tank.
depends on how many bursts the tank misses I guess.
also depends on lowtech or hightech PE. lowtechs have a better con setup coz they can use moveon and ppr, and dont need any dex drugs, maybe for agl but thats it.
I think a good lowtech rifle PE would beat a good tank.
good tank vs good PE .. tank wins? im not sure about that one.
a full clip of CS (no missed bursts) fucks up a PE pretty damn good.
but then again, PEs have a shelter, plus they regenerate better since they cap their heal.
so I dunno, a really good PE can take out a good tank.
depends on how many bursts the tank misses I guess.
also depends on lowtech or hightech PE. lowtechs have a better con setup coz they can use moveon and ppr, and dont need any dex drugs, maybe for agl but thats it.
I think a good lowtech rifle PE would beat a good tank.
I was thinking HT SA Judge/RoG no drugs. But I forgot about the new heal they added. Now it is gona give a PE a better chance of wining. And I was talking about a tank and PE that miss like 4/5 bursts out of a whole fight becuase the longer the fight goes on the better chance a tank has of wining (s/d falling on the PE :p).
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 22:54
true, and if the PE miscasts the s/d.. hes fucked
all i know its useless to spy, i can hardly get 400% on a 5 slotter
Vae Victis
03-05-05, 23:36
all i know its useless to spy, i can hardly get 400% on a 5 slotter true, and its a bit of a waste of a psi ultima.. id rather use ultima on a HIGH lvl spell, in stead of a tl10 heal o_O
Jesterthegreat
04-05-05, 00:18
alright... ive seen enough shit posted now.
1. a pe doesnt outheal fuck all... he moves real quick and hopes not to get hit while healing.
2. a blessed hyb can be FUCKING good... if played well. when i was low tech i fought some anti city hyb so long we both got bored and left. not all of the nc pvp is about your setup.
3. this tl 10 heal. i see no problems as it is. with uncapped damage on my 101% dmg one (clocking in at 490%) i cant circle cast it effectively. however if it was raised in tl's and req's to 25 or 30 (to put it more in the middle of the spell gap) i would have no problem with this either.
all i know its useless to spy, i can hardly get 400% on a 5 slotter
A TL10 spell that a char with double the amount of required PSI can't cap. Anyone else see how KK screwed that up?
nicely put jester, but remember, setups dont matter for shit in this game... blessed hyb, apu based hyb, ppu based hyb, apu, ppu, pc pe, hc pe, rc pe, hyb tank, hc tank, mc tank, w/e... no matter what you make (unless its a retarded class... ie. apu tank, hc monk w/ resist psi) you will kick some serious ass if you use it correctly, having a tl 10 heal, or your nice little blessed spells wont really make a difference.
and btw, how does anyone here really think that a 7 tl difference in the heal will make a difference significant enough to outheal durring battle...
and btw, how does anyone here really think that a 7 tl difference in the heal will make a difference significant enough to outheal durring battle...
Well atm if you cap it, does make a difference as it heals at a rate much higher than it should comparable to a blessed heal which is TL52!
then tell me what classes cap it, and how gimped out they are from doing so
then tell me what classes cap it, and how gimped out they are from doing so
PE's and Monks
I know a couple of people here have said they cap it on their PE.
with the req's on the tl10 i doubt many tanks will use it.
[SNIP]
I put one on my tank: the TL3 as good as the TL10 on a tank, so a waste of time for a tank.
I did the mission twice and each time I got a 4slot better Crahn Revjuevination (TL10), which after all the modding, was kind of crap.
Melee PE's cap it just fine :)
Jesterthegreat
04-05-05, 13:31
I put one on my tank: the TL3 as good as the TL10 on a tank, so a waste of time for a tank.
I did the mission twice and each time I got a 4slot better Crahn Revjuevination (TL10), which after all the modding, was kind of crap.
i doubt this very much...
any tank can cap freq on a tl 3 heal and still cap his primary weapon.
dj's 100+ psu pe *just* caps the freq...
as for it making not much difference... if we use the figures someone posts here...
Well, TL3 heals 6 points/tick, TL10 9 points/tick and blessed 15 points/tick (I think, not sure about that one). Maybe they should lower it to 8 points/tick for TL10 to be more in line with the TLs
then it makes a difference...
now tbh i havent timed a heal, and i hear times varying from 10 secs to 15 secs... lets say its 15 for arguements sake.
45 more health per heal.
if i heal 3 times in a duel i heal for almost 150 more than a tl 3 PE
maybe it does make more of a difference than i first thought, after thinking about it more...
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