View Full Version : [MERGED] NC2 English manual : Discussion Thread
Firstly, I have to say that I do like the manual. It's a lot better than what is available with other mmorpgs (which are often just a few install instructions and a quickstart style guide).
There are some things though. Are we actually going to get Mining Tool now? Also the Salvage Tool is missing from the tools section.
Feel free to use this thread to discuss about the NC2 englih manual that you can find here: http://cp.neocron.com/guide
--
First (i've not finished its reading)
» Mining Tool
Advances in miniaturization made it possible to combine the processes of mineral detection,
separation, and extraction in one tool. The fi rst models were still very large, with
two or three men needed to move the mining tool. The old high-pressure cylinders were
heavy and could only be carried by mining bots.
You should have remove this ;) or nobody since the lase 3 years find out how to use it :D
Any mistakes like that you can attribute directly to me. The mining tool should have been removed when I cleared out things like cashcubes and neck armour (there weren't any helmets in the first manual!)
Anyway, who knows, we might get mining back again some day.
Let me also state right off the bat that a manual for a MMORPG is always going to be a fluid thing. It's more of a "taster" than a complete reference so don't expect that every last wrinkle of the game as it stands today to be covered. Just setting expectation...
N
/edit - I'd also appreciate it if those people with sigs complaining about the missing English manual make a quick edit. Thx. ;)
Please note that you can chance the color of your clothing and may purchase further clothes in-game.
..hopefully that means the Rokkwear terminals are going to be fixed in the next patch. Interestingly, there's still nothing about vehicles in the manual.
EDIT: Sorry, I mean about the specific vehicles, not vehicles in general :)
..hopefully that means the Rokkwear terminals are going to be fixed in the next patch. Interestingly, there's still nothing about vehicles in the manual.
EDIT: Sorry, I mean about the specific vehicles, not vehicles in general :)
Vehicles - page 54. They're also one of the things that are like to change over time so there's not much said about them. Rokkwear won't be in the next patch.
N
Great job :)
I really like it ;)
I've read the NC2 history and it still very poor compared to NC1 one but as the good banboy i am, i'll forget about it :D I already cried ahd shouted about it.
One thing that i loved in the NC1 manual was the little lines about IAs, mutants and so on just after the faction describes. I'd loved to see how it would have been turned :D
Good job Team :)
Maester Seymour
27-04-05, 15:23
Really loved the storyline bit from page 87-92 (Dome of York : The Second War).
That was a great read. :)
The new storyline and faction descriptions were done by our content team so kudos to them. :)
N
Maester Seymour
27-04-05, 15:37
FA are still the inhabitants of TH acording to the manual. You're to beware when going to TH if you're enemy to FA cos it's apparently still guarded by our sentry guns. :p
[Edit]
It's more of a "taster" than a complete reference so don't expect that every last wrinkle of the game as it stands today to be covered. Just setting expectation...
Ignore what i just said above, didn't read that it was just a taster. :o
Dr Strange
27-04-05, 16:04
Page 28 - on the server selection screen you show characters faces the way they should be, though they currently are nothing like that. I realize they were at some point, and might go back to normal at some point but after the whole fucked up baldness/green pe model fiasco of Christmas this past year, most of us have come to expect the login screen to never be fixed.
Page 29 - talking about professions, what the fuck is Beserk? Did someone confuse Street Samuari with something else?...
Page 37 - (more of a question than an error) it talks about Clothing and such, and that you can further change them later in game. Are we to assume that the Rokkwear terminals are to be operational soon?
(doh I hit send by accident, will continue on in next post)
Nice job KK!
And I liked the AlienWare Advertising at the end of the manual :p
link didnt work for me..so..
http://cp.neocron.com/10/guide
edit: just off to read now...;)
page 49 team > the image is the same as navray....not checking spelling on you..
just skimming :)
silly 60 minute rule...just finished skimming and was a good read. congrats to the right people please. ;)
spacing needs to be checked on one of the timeline sections.
and the arabic states would side with the US as they pretty much contributed 1/4 of the GDV of the nation as aposed to the chinese empire they have no real connections with - but a very good read none the less .
and neocron works best on alienware does it :lol:
and neocron works best on alienware does it :lol:
Yes, yes it does.
N
Yes, yes it does.
N
lmao darn and I thought the IBM super computer witch like hell don't know how fast anymore would run better :P
lmao darn and I thought the IBM super computer witch like hell don't know how fast anymore would run better :P
It doesn't do DirectX.
N
Damn! Been waiting for this since the release in the 4th quarter of 2002. :p
So we getting these options back? (pic)
[TgR]KILLER
27-04-05, 20:11
maybe they forgot to edit the pic for the options :p
tho the new part of the story rox.. tried reading the german new story bit without much succes lol.. but as i read it its been FA that went to take the dome with their alliance..
so everybody who believes tg are the rulers of the dome.. :angel: ;)
oh and niddy.. your in the credits aswell.. twice!
Still reading... But it looks very good so far :)
Dribble Joy
27-04-05, 21:05
Interesting
A few glitches (spies havn't been better psi users than PEs for over 2 years) but the disclaimer about progression is good.
Judging by the detailed RPOS section, the RPOS Redsign (http://neocron.jafc.de/showpost.php?p=1677350&postcount=10) has been canned :(
I was really looking forward to a more ergonomic RPOS - bigger font/boxes, more NLPro style :(
Otherwise, sexy manual :) I'll be copying some tidbits to nc.syn as well as mirroring it! (If I'm allowed to)
put a link into the launcher please
lots of people dont read this forum neither browse the homepage as its structure is a little... confusing
The RPOS redesign was always going to be an alternative anyway, not a replacement. I'll put a link in the Launcher, good idea.
N
Page 5, paragraph 2: break that last sentence in two. "For now the only location you can travel to is your own apartment. Which town that apartment is in, and what part of town, is decided by the faction you chose to work for."
Page 5, paragraph 3: Make the section about your inventory and starting equipment a separate paragraph, and move it up to be the new pagaraph 2. After all, if you want people to explore MC5 and run missions, maybe they'll need their Inventory before they get to their apartment?
Page 5, paragraph 3: That's not a very good description of what the GoGuardian is. I would replace the text in parenteses with "a world-wide item storage and retrieval system." It's not really a room, after all, is it? It's just a user-interface screen.
Page 28, last paragraph: Delete the reference to melee combat. Really.
Page 29, section 6.2.2: For the love of god and all that's holy, please if it's not too late, change your mind back and switch the name of this profession back to street samurai, or anything that sounds less medieval fantasy oriented than Berserker. Please?
Page 29, section 6.2.2: Replace "Secondary Skills: vary" with "Secondary Skills: Athletics (ATL), Agility (AGL), Tech Combat (T-C)"
Page 29, section 6.2.3: I really think you're making a mistake encourage gentanks to be drivers. I would also add Weapon Lore (WEP) and Recycling (REC) to the list of secondary skills, because while it's possible for a driver to get by without Repair, no driver who uses any of the guns can get by without both WEP and REC.
Page 30, section 6.2.4: Replace "Secondary skills: vary" with "Secondary Skills: Pistol Combat (P-C), and either Barter (BRT) or Research (RES)"
Page 30, section 6.2.5: Add MST, PPW and PSU to the Primary Skills.
Page 31, section 6.2.6: Add T-C to primary skills. Add ENR and XRR to the secondary skills.
Page 31, section 6.2.7: See 6.2.5, above.
Page 31, section 6.2.8: Add WEP and AGL to secondary skills.
Page 32, section 6.2.9: See 6.2.5, above.
Page 33, section 6.2.10: Oh, my god, I can't believe you didn't list WPW as a primary skill for riggers!
Page 33, section 6.2.12: Add P-C and WEP to the secondary skills.
Page 33, section 6.2.13: Add T-C, AGL, and ATH to the secondary skills.
Pages 34-37: PLEASE include the caps, and the rate of XP gain, in this section.
Page 38: Since many people will go on to create their character before reading the whole manual, insert a reference to chapter 8.2 here.
Page 43: Since you have room on the page, I think it's worth describing the +d and /d commands here, as well as +i and -i.
Page 44, Zone: Instead of saying "limits you to same zone," I would re-word that as "Using the Zone channel increases the range of your voice from the immediate area around you, reaching all the way to the edges of the sector or building you're in." I would also point out here that /z (message) is the shortcut for this.
Page 44, Player to Player Help: You should probably also emphasize that the questions are answered by fellow players who are not affiliated with Reakktor, 10tacle, or Atari, and that if you need a GM you should use the trouble ticket system instead.
Page 46, paragraphs 1-3: You need to explain the remote implant process as well. And contrary to what it says in paragraph 3, the LE chip is NOT the only chip that you can remove without a tool; in Neocron 2 removing a chip never requires a tool. And did you leave Implant Disinfection Gel out of this discussion on purpose?
Page 46, last paragraph: Add sentence: "Only special high-level armor, called power armor, is visible over your clothes to other players."
Page 49, paragraph 2: Wrong graphic. That's a navray window again, not a team window.
Page 53, paragraphs 3 and 4: The graphics are backwards, and should be reversed left-to-right.
Page 55, paragraph 5, edit last sentence: "handy for local sightseeing, and for short-distance transport when you are somewhat overloaded."
Page 61, last paragraph: Even when outfitters worked, they were free, weren't they?
Page 62, first paragraph: Add sentences: "The number one advantage of using Venture Warp for travel, aside from satisfying the urge to gamble, is that you arrive with no Synaptic Impairment. The number one disadvantage is that in some sectors, it may drop you in the middle of a group of enemies that can quickly overpower you before you even knew you were under attack."
Page 64, paragraph 5: You know, for all that you call the Earth "a grayish brown sludge ball," the swamps, steppes, grasslands, cliff line, and parts of the mountains are really quite green and pretty -- and that despite the fact that two nuclear wars have been fought across that territory in the last century.
Page 73, paragraph 1: It's a small nitpick on my part, but there are globes that appear on display screens all over the game, and they don't show any of these changes.
Page 74, paragraph 2: Insert at the beginning of the first sentence, "By the mid 2400s,".
Page 86, paragraph 1: I think it would be cool if you included 2 sentences in parenteses at either the beginning or end of this paragraph: "(This is where the original game Neocron began; many people still playing will remember some of these events.)" It would give people a sense that the game world changes over time, and therefore something to look forward to.
Page 98, paragraph 1: Strike this paragraph, it's obsolete.
Page 98, paragraph 2: Just as you did above with BT and TT, you need to remind runners that there is a shaky truce between the two from now until Pepper Park is liberated.
Page 98, paragraph 3: Strike, obsolete? I don't think the CM and BD are still hostile to each other.
Page 99, after paragraph 1: It's worth including a short paragraph to summarize history from 2724 to the present. May I suggest something like the following? "In the years following their fall from power, the Crahn Sect sought to portray themselves as a scientific, religious, and humanitarian order that had given up on all political ambitions. This was shown to be not true when they were caught conspiring with the enemies of Neocron City, and they and their businesses were officially evicted from all of Neocron City in 2755."
Page 99, paragraph 3: Replace, obsolete. "Products of the Brotherhood of Crahn are now only sold in the Dome of York, although a limited selection of beginner equipment is being smuggled in to the more run-down parts of the city."
Page 101, last two paragraphs: WTF? Since when did Lioon Reza become an unalloyed good guy? How can you write these two paragraphs and not label them official pro-CA propaganda, in light of abuses ranging from execution of people for unpopular ideas to the funding of the Mind Control 5 project? Hello? Am I missing something here?
Page 102, second to last paragraph: Same complaint. "Justly and fairly"? In light of page 103 paragraph 2?
Page 103, paragraph 5: Revise. City Admin is no longer neutral to the Fallen Angels.
Page 105, after last paragraph: Warn players that CM and TG are hostile to each other.
Page 107, paragraph 3: Strike, obsolete. CM and DRE are now neutral.
Page 108, paragraph 1: Change "have emigrated" to "were forced to emigrate."
Page 117, paragraph 1: Strike sentence 3, obsolete.
Page 117, paragraph 2: Revise, inaccurate. "The Syndicate‘s headquarters is a small office above the War Games Inn, the Dome of York's version of Neofrag. The outside is marked only by small neon signs and a few guards; the interior is dominated by a small but comfortable bar with a few shabby offices behind it."
Page 117, last paragraph: Strike, obsolete. Have you forgotten that you gave all of our Pepper Park real estate to the Red Pepper Group? Please replace this paragraph with something indicating that the Syndicate's current primary obsession is regaining control over Pepper Park.
Page 118, whole page: My god, what a mess. Once again, the Tsunami get no attention. This whole section was copied from the Neocron 1 manual, and every single sentence of it is obsolete. Total rewrite, please.
Page 120, paragraph 4: You mention this idea that the corporations would be doomed if the TG took over. Why? I'm asking not because it's important enough to revise the manual over, but frankly, because this part of the plotline makes absolutely no sense to me. Remember, TG has already overthrown one government in Neocron City that was backed by the hyper-corporations. They just switched loyalties. Then they got betrayed by one of their own, who overthrew them and set up his own administration. So the hyper-corporations switched loyalties again. Is there any reason in the storyline why if either TG or CS took over again, or anybody else did for that matter, the hyper-corps wouldn't just change sides again?
Page 120, paragraph 4: Also, the reference to the CityMercs isn't strong enough. You should warn players that TG and CM are shoot-on-sight with each other, before some poor TG new player tries to wander into the Military Base and gets himself shot to unsuspecting pieces.
Page 123, paragraphs 2 and 3: This doesn't match my perception of either apartment. The "normal" apartment (there is no "medium") is a spacious and tasteful 2-story apartment, marred by blast damage. The large apartment is a huge two-story warehouse structure, messy but with intact skylights.
Page 128, section 8.3.3 (entire): Why did you select those particular random items to describe? I would replace it with: "Metal-Plated Armor: Improvised chest-pieces that provide some protection against bullets and blunt trauma. Leather Armor: Improvised chest-pieces that provide some protection against bullets and flame. Wiremesh Armor: Improvised chest-pieces that provide some protection against bullets and energy attacks. Kevlar Armor: Provides basic piercing and kinetic defense for those not strong enough to wear more. Battle Armor: Upgraded kevlar armor, protects more areas of the body. Duranit, Duranium: Heavy body armor that also provides defense against energy attacks. Inquisition Armor: Heavy body armor, also provides defense against flame. Defensive Belts: Force-field projectors that require high intelligence to operate, most of which are specialized against particular attacks. Psi Armor: Lightweight armor with built-in psi foci that enable psi monks to stand up to energy attacks, and provide lesser defense against other attacks. Power Armor: Full-body suits of ultra-tech armor specific to each class, each one specialized for one of two weapon types. This is the only armor that is visible over your clothes to other players. Requires very high skills to wear and operate." (Add bullets and paragraph breaks, of course.)
Page 129, top half of the page: Revise "paralyze" in paragraph 3 to "partially paralyze" and "opponents" to "other players." Change title of paragraph 5 to "Deflector and Shelter Spells," and leave out "Holy." Insert paragraphs explaining boost spells and creature focus spells.
Page 130, last paragraph: As someone else has already mentioned, strike, removed from the game ages ago. (Shame, really, I guess.)
Pages 132-133: I'm not sure those are the particular drugs you want to include? Perhaps a general overview of the types of drugs, like the one I wrote, would be more helpful. It would also help if you reminded people that the +5 drugs are illegal in Neocron City, but that the law is not automatically enforced.
Page 140, paragraph 4: Are these even still in the game?
Section 8.4, overall: You should probably warn people about beggars and lazars. You should probably even more strongly warn people about the Y-Replicants.
I appreciate the effort you've gone to but the final textual version of the manual was sent to the publishers in early January and the completed version with all the markup and illustrations/screenshots has only now been released for us to use. It's too late to incorporate these changes since it has now already been printed.
Also, as I mentioned earlier, there is very little point in documenting such things as caps and alliances since they are always going to be subject to potential balancing changes.
Even taking all of those comments into account there are still huge swathes of game mechanics that are left undocumented (such as the details of HackNet, StockX, how to drive vehicles, etc. etc. We can't possibly hope to document everything perfectly and even if we did it would likely be out of date within a few weeks anyway. The intention was to give people something deeper than an overview but still leave room for further research - that's some of the fun, after all.
N
OK, I give up on being polite. I usually try to be polite, but in light of past history of y'all screwing up the documentation, whose bright idea was it to send the manual out for printing before letting your dozens of volunteer proof-readers look it over for you? Christ on a pogo stick. And I thought I was just making a joke when I said, "10tacle shot the edit"!
For the love of god, please save these edits and revise the damned manual before the American release, if one ever happens?
It occurred to me that there's something even more important that's been left out of this manual: an explanation of the Show Info window for weapons. This is the single most complicated and undocumented and yet important screen in the whole game, and players are left to figure it out entirely on their own.
Holy Mary, mother of fuck. In its current condition, there are so many pieces of bad advice in that manual that it's almost worse than having no manual. Look, I know the rules about not flaming. I know you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I know I should be trying to maintain a reasonable tone about this, but as someone who really, really wants this game to succeed, this level of screwup really pisses me off. No matter what you or anyone else says, Nidhogg, this is going to take me a while to calm down over.
MMPORGs are almost unique across the whole world of commercial software development in that they naturally have on tap whole fields of expert trained and professional volunteers who are just pounding down the doors to give away their professional services for free. Why, oh why in Christ's name, does your company keep pissing all over those offers?
...there are still huge swathes of game mechanics that are left undocumented (such as the details of HackNet, StockX, how to drive vehicles, etc. etc. We can't possibly hope to document everything perfectly...
But we can definitely try! ;)
I personally feel that stuff like that falls into the hands of the Community anyway :) A Manual should get you on your feet and walking, which that definitely will do! The intricate details should be left to the Community to unravel and, if so inclined, share. nc.syn is not a forced "spoiler" in the Neocron box - it's there to use for those who don't mind the information. There are many people I've talked to in-game who, despite not knowing what to do regarding certain facets, would rather not have a webpage tell them everything. I totally respect that and admire those people who have more patience than I ;)
Dr Strange
28-04-05, 00:10
The RPOS redesign was always going to be an alternative anyway, not a replacement. I'll put a link in the Launcher, good idea.
N
Was? As in no work is being done/finished on an RPOS alternative? Sooner or later players are going to start designing their own RPOS since none are given to use as options to use ;(
Dr Strange
28-04-05, 00:14
OK, I give up on being polite. I usually try to be polite, but in light of past history of y'all screwing up the documentation, whose bright idea was it to send the manual out for printing before letting your dozens of volunteer proof-readers look it over for you? Christ on a pogo stick. And I thought I was just making a joke when I said, "10tacle shot the edit"!
For the love of god, please save these edits and revise the damned manual before the American release, if one ever happens?
It occurred to me that there's something even more important that's been left out of this manual: an explanation of the Show Info window for weapons. This is the single most complicated and undocumented and yet important screen in the whole game, and players are left to figure it out entirely on their own.
Holy Mary, mother of fuck. In its current condition, there are so many pieces of bad advice in that manual that it's almost worse than having no manual. Look, I know the rules about not flaming. I know you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I know I should be trying to maintain a reasonable tone about this, but as someone who really, really wants this game to succeed, this level of screwup really pisses me off. No matter what you or anyone else says, Nidhogg, this is going to take me a while to calm down over.
MMPORGs are almost unique across the whole world of commercial software development in that they naturally have on tap whole fields of expert trained and professional volunteers who are just pounding down the doors to give away their professional services for free. Why, oh why in Christ's name, does your company keep pissing all over those offers?
A-fucking-men
The whole "Beserk" thing is fucking stupid as hell.
Damn that's some fucked up shit. :( :(
I appreciate the effort you've gone to but the final textual version of the manual was sent to the publishers in early January and the completed version with all the markup and illustrations/screenshots has only now been released for us to use. It's too late to incorporate these changes since it has now already been printed.
pathetic...
Dribble Joy
28-04-05, 02:45
pathetic...
Why? What else do you expect him to say?
Jesus....
Dr Strange
28-04-05, 02:56
Why? What else do you expect him to say?
Jesus....
Actually, no response to us pointing out blatant errors would have been better.
Instead it's basically like "ok we know we fucked up the manual royally, but we can't fix it so deal with it"
Sadly that's the same old song and dance for so many things in the game currently it's starting to suck ;\
Why? What else do you expect him to say?
Jesus....
Its not about him, its about the fact.
I wasn't asked to proof read it :( My name/title isn't even right...
Exactly - Brad has poinetd out some things that are moderately innacurate, to some things that are just entirely fucking misleading.... Now, I knew that this was farrrr too late to have any changes made (clearly all int release manuals would have been printed by now) that doesnt make this any less stupid. OK, lets look at the alternatives - this manaul was sent to the printers in January. So, in December 2004 (when the website said the manual would be up) the elctornic version of the manual could have been put up, Brad could have worked his wonders and then a decent manual could have been sent to the printers. Now, this isnt Nidhogg's fault - but does KK managment have a clue what they are doing? I realise it isnt easy, but to me and many others, it just looks like one managment blunder after another, constantly.
Thanks, Cmaster. That was the point I wasn't calm enough to make clearly - that there had to have been some point in the production process where the thing was ready to go to the printers, and if there were even 24 hours between when they got it done and when it went to the printers, I'm surely not the only person who would have swarmed it with a fine-toothed comb to catch errors.
"Not invented here." I really feel like MMPORG companies just plain don't value any ideas, efforts, or contributions by their players. To me it just speaks of monstrous levels of stupidity to turn down offers of free skilled labor.
Jesterthegreat
28-04-05, 08:21
same shit, different day.
its sad to see people impressed because something that should have been available for god knows how many months is finally available... but it gets balanced out by it being so inaccurate and being sent off to be printed before proof reading.
i would expect no less.
Surely couldn't corrections go into an improved version for future runs? Surely you're not printing all the copies you ever need right now - and there's still the online users who'll be using the downloadable version.
Also - I would like to suggest including the manual in the downloadable version of Neocron and adding a link on the start menu to it - or atleast a link on the start menu to the download location.
Athon Solo
Just read the story, and the new added bits and frankly it makes yu wonder why Neocron city still exists, every fight the CA are in they lose, every fight that the anti city alliance fight, they win... makes yu wonder if the Devs/GMs are all on the anti city side, if i remember the events of NC1 all the pro city events were lost due to a bias on the anti city (the Convoy that was ambushed by Black dragon... anyone remember that massacare)
I hope none of the future events that will be held will be so bais, cos if it is... dont expect any pro city to turn up...
Jesterthegreat
28-04-05, 13:36
whack a "sticky" thing on the launcher with a link to the updated manual
update it every month or so with the changes.
hell im sure members of the community could write the updates if your excuse will be "it takes too long"
I wasn't asked to proof read it :( My name/title isn't even right...
Good point. What KK needs are good proof readers. Native german speakers for german text, native english speakers for english text. However accurate the literal translation, some phrases don't translate well and natives should use artistic licence for colloquialisms.
Something as big and important as a manual shouldn't be left to one person. Well, maybe the writing, but at least three seperate proof readers should check it over before publication.
Same with mission scripts / epics etc.
mining tools still in game aint it,
if u use it on barrels u get chems, and if u use it on the fallen log in the outzone u get wood, thats what i remember anyway, could be totaly wrong
ye u cant buy it, but i thought it still existed
Obsidian X
01-05-05, 04:56
mining tools still in game aint it,
if u use it on barrels u get chems, and if u use it on the fallen log in the outzone u get wood, thats what i remember anyway, could be totaly wrong
ye u cant buy it, but i thought it still existed
I heard that its an extremely rare item (in NC1 at least, dunno if anyone transferred them), though I'm not sure if they work or not these days. Anyone know why this feature was removed in the first place?
Jesterthegreat
01-05-05, 12:31
I heard that its an extremely rare item (in NC1 at least, dunno if anyone transferred them), though I'm not sure if they work or not these days. Anyone know why this feature was removed in the first place?
same reason "adapter for large barrels" was removed?
cos they didnt bother to doanything productive with them...
Obsidian X
01-05-05, 12:39
Ah, also like the Ceres Cyborg chips, but we're starting to drift Off-Topic here :p
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