View Full Version : I'm very worried - Is Neocron Becoming Kiddie?
Heavyporker
27-04-05, 05:41
Look at all the whispers, the slow mutations, the hints... the insinuations by Nidhogg and others (not mentioning Lupus here, oh no) (oh wait...).
Fear fills my heart.
Look at this ratings matter.... look at the strippers becoming "tame"....
More and more NPCs getting fitted with "Cuss-Chips" to make them speak ever so nicely and gentlemanly.
Someone handed Black Lily a set of free granny undies.
It's been a while since someone drank themselves blind on the streets of Pepper Park. There's no more pools of blood anywhere.
Even the mobs are getting shy. The Raptors are taking courses on sexual abstience and putting on undies to cover their cooches. The Droms are getting affirmation training and will mule-kick anyone that yells "sex" at them.
While I cheered myself hoarse at the character name filters, I saw a Copbot march up to someone who said "Fuck!" in Plaza One and shoot him dead.
Is Neocron becoming G rated?
Dr Strange
27-04-05, 05:50
shouldnt this be in the RP forum?....
Seconds Porkers Concern, for a game that once shipped with a 18 rating, and was at one point I think voted the world 4th sexiest game (i think) things have got tame what rating will NC2 international box be shipping with
trigger hurt
27-04-05, 06:08
Is Neocron becoming G rated?
Like I said once before. The pussification of Neocron has been in the works for ages.
It's not kk's fault, really. Those of us who crave a hostile environment to play an MMO in are a rare breed. KK has to adjust this game to be nice and fluffy to be able to pull in the people who really pump money into games. From playing AO, I've noticed that those people are generally the ones who don't mind camping the fuck out of an 18 hour spawn to kill the mob that has a .1 chance of dropping one of the rarest items in the game, but if you inconvenience these people just once by dropping em while they camp...well..they quit and go elsewhere.
Dr Strange
27-04-05, 06:26
Like I said once before. The pussification of Neocron has been in the works for ages.
It's not kk's fault, really. Those of us who crave a hostile environment to play an MMO in are a rare breed. KK has to adjust this game to be nice and fluffy to be able to pull in the people who really pump money into games. From playing AO, I've noticed that those people are generally the ones who don't mind camping the fuck out of an 18 hour spawn to kill the mob that has a .1 chance of dropping one of the rarest items in the game, but if you inconvenience these people just once by dropping em while they camp...well..they quit and go elsewhere.
On topic, I disagree.
Our choices are extremely limited.
I don't care for PVP that much. I enjoy it some, a little here and there. By PVP I mean actual honest to goodness combat. Not killing some noob who just removed his LE by accident, or killing a tradeskiller who happened to go AFK or fatal in a non safe zone. I mean something like op wars, city raids or even the frowned apon "duels".
That said I more so enjoy the leveling, the item collecting, working and tweaking characters. Sure the endgame is PVP but not all of us crave it like Counter-Strike adrenaline filled 12 year olds who must whip their dick out at any thing that moves ingame to kill it.
And of course, nay sayers will chime in "keep your LE in" "Don't play a PVP game" etc
- Keeping your LE severely limits your abilities. Gank free, yes. No clans, no epics, no op waring, all it does is keep you from being killed at any time. Not even remotely balanced with being non-LE'd.
- "Don't play PVP" games leads into my main point;
The genre is grippled. I can think of 3 currently on the market games that are in the sci fi/futuristic/cyber-punk genre;
Anarchy Online
Matrix Online
Neocron 2
AO is free, and I don't care for it really.
Matrix Online from reviews and just reading about it sucks (very linear gameplay combined with a weak combat system)
And of course theres Neocron that while it fits cyberpunk, it's a genre of its own. It meshes sci fi, fantasy, first person shooters etc all into one nice package. Bugs aside, piss poor communication aside, it's still the best game of its most closely related genre.
So what options are we left with? Sure I can go for a more less combat oriented cyber punk game like AO but it doesn't fill my sci fi/cyber punk + FPS needs like Neocron. I could go play Matrix but it's crap game system and combat mechanics suck.
We're left with Neocron.
The only reason I pull my LE's on my characters are the advantages they get over LE's. If LE's could form a clan, and use a clan apartment, and do epics, I wouldn't pull their LE. I'd tradeskill probably for my clan and stick to just playing my LE'd guys, simply cause I'm not a huge fan of PVP. Some is fine, but I mainly PVP cause my friends enjoy PVP, and I enjoy playing with them.
Co-Op is basically my main thing in RPG's, I enjoy doing shit on-mass with others. Hunting, events, etc And no WoW's major huge non-stop Quest fest with big party's isn't for me. While I utterly love Blizzards vast support for WoW and how theres patches like every couple weeks, I've already played Warcraft 1-3 and Diablo 1+2 so I've done the fantasy thing. Maybe if it had been World of Starcraft...I'd be all over that shit but thats not the case.
And to be honest, Neocron is simply holding my time till Star Trek Online comes out in late 06, or early 07 in which case I'll be jumping ship (no pun intended) to that. It's a great game but if by then shit aint fixed and whatnot, I'll grab my Ensign uniform and pips and begin my career as a bridge officer ;)
I suppose you're right, but I could live with it if it helped allow new players to stick to the game. Truthfully, the game did feel darker and more cyberpunk I guess in NC1. A lot more really. I don't really get that feeling in DoY like I do in NC, and the one thing that bugs me the great city being used so little now.
I think that... before with all the people in the small area, the fighting in pepper park, the sexy strippers all around.. Gave off a much more hardcore feel then what there is now. Not sure if ive hit the issue you meant but thats just my feelings. Which are not usually too profound :)
I don't care for PVP that much.i think we all know why :angel:
Jesterthegreat
27-04-05, 07:54
Sure the endgame is PVP but not all of us crave it like Counter-Strike adrenaline filled 12 year olds who must whip their dick out at any thing that moves ingame to kill it.
"anyone who plays different to me is a 12 year old virgin who imagines skull fucking their victims"
mature plz
Dr Strange
27-04-05, 08:25
@prodigy
I have my share of deaths ;) , but then again I don't pvp much. if i was a hardcore pvper who really got into it i might be a tad more worried about dying as much or whatever but I just get pokes and go back to doing whatever I was doing.
@jester
No, there is a difference. I'll rephrase;
While a good portion of people I've seen ingame are nice people who enjoy good pvp, as mentioned before, there is an equal if not greater portion that are as I described; Counter-Strike type junkies. The ones that love to ruin the game for others be it camping a gen rep or killing a totally harmless tradeskiller, or ally killing. Naming names aside, we all know who these people are. So my LE/genre statement applies. It sucks but we deal with it. Best we can do is hope for a rework of the SL system to help prevent this in hunting areas (non warzone of course).
Jesterthegreat
27-04-05, 08:32
@jester
No, there is a difference. I'll rephrase;
While a good portion of people I've seen ingame are nice people who enjoy good pvp, as mentioned before, there is an equal if not greater portion that are as I described; Counter-Strike type junkies. The ones that love to ruin the game for others be it camping a gen rep or killing a totally harmless tradeskiller, or ally killing. Naming names aside, we all know who these people are. So my LE/genre statement applies. It sucks but we deal with it. Best we can do is hope for a rework of the SL system to help prevent this in hunting areas (non warzone of course).
your le / genre statement means shit all.
i pk. i kill who i want when i want. i cant stand CS. i'm not 12 years old. and, hard as it may be to accept this, i dont start masterbating when i kill someone.
your le / genre statement means shit all.
i pk. i kill who i want when i want. i cant stand CS. i'm not 12 years old. and, hard as it may be to accept this, i dont start masterbating when i kill someone.
Agree with Jester! fuck CS, kill anyone i want, and what kind of sick human beeing are you if you start masturbating when u kill someone :confused:
trigger hurt
27-04-05, 09:40
On topic, I disagree....
By all means, disagree all day if you want, but (here comes the "i've been here for a while") I've played this game for a long fucking time. Throughout my course playing, I've gone from one active account to three accounts back to one. The one account isn't even the first account I started with that has my high lvl chars on it. Either way, count your blessings that things are as they are now. Ask anyone who was around during the times when there wasn't a belt drop and there were no warzones.
Alot of things have been done to tone down and im some cases, completly deter pvp. The Belt drop and war/anarchy/hunting zones were added to this game to aid the people who couldn't take getting killed while hunting a mob or going afk. Lemme put it plainly, so I am not understood.
1. There is no possible way to accidentally remove your LE. There may be some misunderstanding about what the bonii/mallii for the LE are, but if you pull it out, you have only to read the description of the chip to know that if you yank it, you are granting pvp whether you want it or not.
2. Only an idiot goes AFK in an anarchy, war or hunting zone. If you do so, you deserve to be shot and killed. If the person has the opportunity, they should rez-kill you. Neocron should not be nor never should have been billed as a cute and fuzzy place to hang out. It should have stuck with the cyberpunk, stab you in the back and sex your corpse atmostphere that it was taunted as being from the start. Feel fortunate that the LE is even an option. At one point, there was no pvp switch at all. It was only changed due to people complaining.
3. I don't beleive in killing everything that moves. Sometimes, I don't even attack an enemy runner cause I don't feel like fighting or I am busy doing something else. But, when I go looking for a fight, I'm not going to stop shooting you because you don't move. Infact, I'm more prone to take the risk and kill you and hack your belt than I would for someone who actually put up a fight cause you deserve to pay for your mistake.
I suppose you're right, but I could live with it if it helped allow new players to stick to the game. Truthfully, the game did feel darker and more cyberpunk I guess in NC1. A lot more really. I don't really get that feeling in DoY like I do in NC, and the one thing that bugs me the great city being used so little now.
I think that... before with all the people in the small area, the fighting in pepper park, the sexy strippers all around.. Gave off a much more hardcore feel then what there is now. Not sure if ive hit the issue you meant but thats just my feelings. Which are not usually too profound :)
i think we all know why :angel:
I'm basing all of my opinion based on what I've seen in other games that are far more popular and just as old as Neocron. Perhaps their engines are not as dated and they are being run by companies with a far deeper pool of resources to pull from, but the similarities are still there.
AO. PvP is pretty much on a consensual basis. By consent, you have to do one of 2 things, both of which involve you becoming flagged for pvp.
1. Either you have to start then stop an attack on a gaurd or attack a gaurd and zone before you are killed by it. This will flag you for 15 minutes or until you die. If you aren't paying attention, you can be suckered into flagging yourself because some higher level twinks will pull gaurds that are enemy to you. The gaurd will aggro you and if you have auto attack on, you will attack the gaurd. It will either kill you, or you can zone, but then you are flagged for pvp. Or, some twink says to you "i want to test my gun, let's pvp up to 25%". When you shoot him, he kicks you ass because he's a lvl 15 toon who's twinked up to use QL 50ish weapons and armor and is wearing foreign buffs.
2. Run into a low-gas area. Most areas in the game are 75% or higher gas which doesn't allow open attack unless you are flagged. There are areas that are 25% or lower gas that cause you to be open to attack and this is counts as you being flagged. This one has a timer though. If you run into a low gas area, you get 60 seconds to make it through the area or go out.
Neocron isn't full-on carebear pvp. My feelings for WoW and it's pvp is that it's higher on the scale than Neocron is, but it's not just about pvp. The atmosphere in Neocron is being toned down to make room for the people who want to play this game but don't want to be offended by pixelated tits and ass or someone swearing.
trigger hurt
27-04-05, 09:43
@prodigy
I have my share of deaths ;) , but then again I don't pvp much. if i was a hardcore pvper who really got into it i might be a tad more worried about dying as much or whatever but I just get pokes and go back to doing whatever I was doing.
The people who play this game for PvP have accepted that, at some point, they will drop a valued item or an expensive peice of armor. They are not the ones who really give a shit. The people who complain the most are the people who "don't really like pvp all that much". Those are the people that are the most vocal and they are the people who, in the end, pump money into an MMO. So who do you think the people making the MMO are going to listen to.
I am also worried. Let's keep the atmosphere in Neocron which made me play this game. I really love the strippers in PP and the messy streets. Please don't make it in some kind of Sims online KK.
Alot of things have been done to tone down and im some cases, completly deter pvp. The Belt drop and war/anarchy/hunting zones were added to this game to aid the people who couldn't take getting killed while hunting a mob or going afk.
The reason I got so hooked to this game in the first place, is because I realised I could lose practically anything at any time. You actually had to have back up weaponary available (I'm sure player guides back then mentioned how you should have a few of each weapon). There was a much greater adrenaline rush available from playing. Once you've lost something you love (your first 3 or 4 slot gun), you are always watching your back - always!
Also, quite a few of the nicer people playing would DM you after the fight to return your weapon. It's not quite the same now, because the belt has to be hacked and anybody knows that anyone could have done the hacking before you've made your way back there, and put their neck on the line to complete the hack, so where is the point in returning it?
Bugs Gunny
27-04-05, 10:47
or killing a tradeskiller who happened to go AFK or fatal in a non safe zone.
You deserve to be killed if you go afk in a non-safezone.
I remember back in nc1 i went out with my researcher/rhino driver to go tag some gr's for a guy, while researching bp's. All of a sudden i get a realy urgent call, i hop into the car and come back 4 hours later. My afk tradeskiller had been stripped of everything, his gloves, etc... Only things left were his tools and keys.
I cursed, but also realised it was my own fault.
I recall a certain enemy tank afk in a safespot in the chaos caves. I think he came back , still alive, naked, wondering where the hell all his stuff went :-)
As for the people who go around killing everything in sight. Seriously, just dont' go at them alone, form a group, kill them and hack the belts.
i kill who i want when i want
Why do I get the feeling that's the Venom motto? :lol:
Well, it's your dime as they say - you pay your subs and you've basically earned the right to play any way you want as long as it does not break the terms in the EULA. Of course, that applies to every playing style, even those despised by the majority of the community. As has been pointed out, the MMORPG player base has a relatively small hardcore PvP community.. which is smaller still when you eliminate the people who hate FPS or love their elves. You can't really blame KK for shifting the focus of the game (as some of you claim) to appeal to those outside of that group.. because lets face it, that's where the money is. Of course, anyone who played DX ad DX:IW can confirm that dumbing things down in an attempt to appeal to a larger audience doesn't always work..
Dribble Joy
27-04-05, 12:52
It's virtually impossible to regulate online gaming. Trying to appeal to a wider audience to bring in more players and playing safe, is bound to have an effect on the content. Whether this is due to 10T or Atari isn't the point, it is still happening.
Jesterthegreat
27-04-05, 13:25
i got no problems with people playing their way...
hell my spy only removed his LE 2 nights ago... when he had a ** rank. if you dont wish to participate in pvp thats a viable option. i got up to sa / pa / RoG level with an LE in my head.
I think the PvP 'problems' would be diminished considerably if there were consequences for your actions
For example
Sure we have less safezones but Copbots should still attack people with visible weapons or at the very least weapons that are used in their presence (christ this is even in the bloody manual!)
The SL/faction symp system needs to be changed/fixed so that allied killing is actually and effectively punished and thus discouraged (but still doable for those who like to play dangerously)
I still believe that some kind of rank restriction to PvP would be a good idea (similar to AOs PvP system where you can only attack those within a certain level range of yoru character) - AO's system is far from perfect but its better than nothing and would encourage all rank PvP and stop taking the LE out for tradeskillers/RPers from being the death sentence it is currently. Since everyone seems to agree how low newbie/lowbie killing is it would be interesting to see people valid arguments against such a system (beyond 'he called me nasty names because he knows I cant attack him')
trigger hurt
27-04-05, 15:43
I think the PvP 'problems' would be diminished considerably if there were consequences for your actions
For example
Sure we have less safezones but Copbots should still attack people with visible weapons or at the very least weapons that are used in their presence (christ this is even in the bloody manual!)
The SL/faction symp system needs to be changed/fixed so that allied killing is actually and effectively punished and thus discouraged (but still doable for those who like to play dangerously)
I still believe that some kind of rank restriction to PvP would be a good idea (similar to AOs PvP system where you can only attack those within a certain level range of yoru character) - AO's system is far from perfect but its better than nothing and would encourage all rank PvP and stop taking the LE out for tradeskillers/RPers from being the death sentence it is currently. Since everyone seems to agree how low newbie/lowbie killing is it would be interesting to see people valid arguments against such a system (beyond 'he called me nasty names because he knows I cant attack him')
I would argue against such systems because it goes against the mechanics of being able to kill when, where and who anytime you want.
First, if you make any changes to the SL/FS system, fine. At the same time, remove belt drop. 1 Random item from the runners quick belt or inventory will drop. Exclude medpacks, boosters and drugs from the list. Implants, Weapons, Spells and Armor are able to drop randomly. There has to be a balance. If you die, you should lose something. And remove the safe slot. Safe slot and quick belt hacking did more to kill neocron's economy than research missions do now.
Second. High Interest areas such as viarossa and plaza districts should have guards. The gaurds should be killable by a spy/tank/apu who has a ppu with them. They should also have a longer spawn time. If someone kills all the gaurds in an area, they should have free roam of the place. Give the gaurds the damage that regular 120/120 mobs do and remove the Para. Second, the low interest areas like pepper park, no gaurds at all or one or two that patrol an area every 5 minutes or so. You could have quick fights then run when the cops showed up.
God damn it, people, stay on topic, and stop hijacking every thread that gets posted to Community Talk into an argument about PvP play styles!
I've had the same worries that Heavyporker had ever since I saw the new stripper models. Then I found out that they'd removed the full-nude dancers from the peepshow booths in the redesigned Club Veronique; now the peep-show dancers are wearing the same things as the ones on stage. (How pointless is that? Might as well delete them if that's what you're going to do.)
There's still porno on the signage. The drawn as opposed to photo porno includes some fairly graphic images, including the classic "split beaver" shot. What's more, they've spread that porn to at least five areas it wasn't in before. It used to be that you could avoid the porno by staying out of Pepper Park. Now you would have to stay out of CM HQ, sector I_09, and virtually the entire ruins of the Dome of York. So it's kind of a mixed message. So I don't really know what's going on behind the scenes, can't even guess. You are not the only one who wonders if some of the holdup on European-wide release was because Atari got cold feet over the idea of being associated with something as potentially controversial and god forbid maybe newsworthy as a multiplayer version of GTA: Vice City. But it's hard to say.
As for not feeling dangerous enough, people are still feeling out the weak spots in each city's defenses. Contrary to what most people think, it is actually fairly easy for all character classes to waltz into popular parts of both cities and blast away at the unsuspecting. When I was doing the ProtoPharm epic, I didn't pay for a Tsunami kill. I snuck carefully past the DoY Scout bots, outran the DoY Guards, and lurked in the completely unguarded area around the apartment lifts, waiting for someone to come out. Bang. Easy, fun, and it took less time than endlessly spamming for a paid kill and saved me hundreds of thousands of credits. People whine and cry too much about the Copbots and guards in this game; if you've got at least 35 each in Athletics and Agility, there are very few sectors where you can't get past them and into hiding before they open fire or initiate pursuit. (Hint: It takes all NPCs in this game at least 3 seconds to even notice that you're there, and contrary to their reputations, guards have fairly short sight range. Not only that, but faction guards will stand there and shout at you for another 10 or so seconds before opening fire.) Outside of Via Rosso sector 3, there probably aren't any sectors where I couldn't sneak an enemy character in and find a quiet place for an ambush, even without a stealth tool. (Admittedly, sneaking/running to some sectors is a lot more trouble than it's worth.) More people will figure this out. When they do, during off-peak times there won't be a safe shop, dark alley, or apartment lobby in the game outside of Tech Haven. Give them time.
So when it comes to sex and violence in Neocron 2, the messages are mixed, as if there were two opposing forces within Reakktor/10tacle/Atari pushing it in both directions.
Digital-Talios
27-04-05, 23:08
my favorite is that you cant have the word "bitch" in your name but NPCs for epics swear worse then this. I also like how you can not have "vulgar" words in your name but yet there is a pussy club. Things should be left the way they are except for the sex in Neocron. If any thing it should be increased. I want to see the droms returned to the Bum Assylum. :lol:
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