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View Full Version : Neocron 2 Ask The Devs - Game Engine - Premptive Strike Q's



Dr Strange
15-04-05, 13:33
Now, from what I've read the previous Ask the Devs round was informative. A good read. Nice to see content being worked on and the such.

But alot of us, at least I think alot of us, are more interested in the game's engine/coding discussion. And as such I think this should be a round of Ask the Dev's for future submittance to the devs. Other than patch notes (not to flame but few and far between) and the occasional update from Nid, theres not alot of engine discussion. And I think with the International Release coming up (soon?) we can agree questions do need to be asked?

So, ask questions of anything engine related. Game physics, mechanics, engine bugs, etc They've already covered content and such so thats out of the way for now. I'll get the ball rolling with the more obvious ones, or at least ones I feel are important;

Q: Given the state of the current netcode for Neocron 2, is there anything being worked on to prevent the following ingame: "50/50" synchronizations, "black" synchronizations, and "synching" into another players character?

That's a given right there. Many times when I've rolled a character, I honestly get a 50/50 in the MC5 newbie area. I realize there will be a more network usage when IR happens and more players start coming in, but when already have these problems now. It's not gonna look to keen when that new player rolls his character and starts at MC5 to see the constant "Synchronizing" text and a character who can't move other than looking around.

Q: Has there been any headway made on the front of eliminating "Fatal Runtime Error"'s?

Again obvious. I know in previous patches they are eliminating some, server side. And if I decided to link a handful of threads it can be proven that people with top of the line systems can get alot of "FRE"'s and some don't. Some with low end systems get alot of "FRE"'s and some don't. It's still happening to people and even happens to the game's on GM's. Remember the above example of a new player synching? Imagine going to exit the first room the MC5 newbie area and "FRE"ing... I also realize the game has millions apon millions of lines of code and debuging that is painstakingly long, but I also realize it's something that needs to be done.

Q: Has there been any work on tweaking the netcode ingame, in terms of player interpolation? i.e. one player viewing another playing walking through the air, or a mob being visible for one player but not another one?

While not game breaking, very much annoying. Many a times a small party of 3 people has to relog to simply fix the "lag" between them when say, the party's PPU or some needed specific character appears floating in the corner of a ceiling and not able to be targeted (heals, buffs etc). Or a mob that is magically killing you but you can't see it, it's not there but some other player can see it, target it and damage it/kill it.

Q: Is there any work being done on the "C++ Error"s that are very similar to the "Fatal Runtime Error"s?

Same as said about "FRE"'s, causes the same thing basically, not as common but still there.

Some game mechanic questons now;

Q: While a possible Vehicle Theme week has been discussed, is there any work being done to recode how some vehicles recieve damage from slight "bumping" of another object? Have vehicles been worked on so when say, flying a vehicle and synchronizing doesn't cause it to just crash when you finish synchronizing? In corilation with the netcode, has any work been done on vehicles so that multiple people can synchronize through a zone ok?

Ok, this was more of a personal question since I love the vehicles. But I think we can agree they need a complete rework. Spawn a glider, it slowly slides down a hill, taps a cactus and explodes. Load up an APC to drive people places and watch as 4 people lag out of the game, fatal or get synched into the middle of a sector.

Q: Is there any work being done to rebalance weapon damage?

If I remember right Lupus said the Crossbow pistol wasn't overpowered in the #/% damage it did, just the type of damage(s). Ok, that needs a possible rework, some say. And if I remember right, one rifle is still bugged where you don't see the beam of it. Not huge bugs but something that's been around a while.

Q: Another possibel theme week discussed was Soullight. Anything new on this front?

Without dipping into just a flame fest of ally killers this or that, I think most can agree this aspect of the game needs a rework as well. Or at least a simple remodeling of it.

Q: Are there anything new to be done with the current HUD setup for the RPO's and GUI? If a new HUD/GUI/RPO isn't being designed will players get an option to use the original HUD/GUI/RPO? If not can players obtain permission to create their own HUD/GUI/RPO that many other MMORPGS allow these days?

A big personal one here on my part. I cannot stand the current HUD setup. I never played NC1 and even it's default hud looked better. Add to the fact you had the customized NLP huds that were player designed and all sleek and refined, you can see how its such a pain.

Q: Is there going to be any work done, or consideration, for certain aspects of the game that seem to "require" DirectX 9+?

While I realize some things will absolutely need DX9, somethings don't really. Case in point, the PE models. Just about every clothing combonation ends up with the missing torso, bugged face for DX7 users. While I agree people should upgrade with the times, something as simple as the default clothing that works on 3 out of 4 classes seems rather small that should be DX7 compatible.


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That's all I can think of personally. Please, add any game play, game mechanic or game engine questions you think should be pubically answered. Remember game content has already been covered.

As always I need to toss out the obvious disclaimers:

In the event of this thread being locked prematurely due to its questioning nature it was due to a mod/admin making that choice. All questions (thus far) have been asked in a polite, non flaming, non trolling form and simply need honest answers in return. And as always questions I ask outright, or seem more involved in are of my own opinion, not that of my friends, my clan or anyone related to me and as such any negative response should be directed at myself and not anyone or anything related to me (in a pm please if nesscary, dont get this closed)

Now, discuss people ;)

Jesterthegreat
15-04-05, 14:20
the pe "fat lip" happens in dx9 too.

Bugs Gunny
15-04-05, 14:27
All good questions.
The xbow however has allready had it's nerf done. If you look at the ammo and the pistol itself you'll see different dammagetypes.

Dr Strange
19-04-05, 13:01
Callash mentioned PPU balancing in this thread (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=124486), which falls under game mechanics.

However still no word on game engine, mechanics or code interviews/responses from GM's :(

Xylaz
19-04-05, 13:27
Q:
What about the "mixed items' ID" problem which occurs after death (rezzing/GRing) - this bug has been here since the beggining of NC1 and its quite annoying to relog after each death to see if i'm wearing the redflash instead of PA and if i'm using pants instead of weapon.

Gulinborsti
19-04-05, 13:36
Q:
What about the "mixed items' ID" problem which occurs after death (rezzing/GRing) - this bug has been here since the beggining of NC1 and its quite annoying to relog after each death to see if i'm wearing the redflash instead of PA and if i'm using pants instead of weapon.Yeah, that's actually the most annoying bug ingame (and one of the oldest afair) at least in my opinion since I don't have lots of FREs, Synchs or graphic bugs.

But it's about time to get rid of the bugs in game since the beginning of NC1. I hope KK takes thier time after the IR to fix things like Inventory (see above), HN issues, NavRay, vehicle zoning & collision, etc ... before they start to add anything new.

Jesterthegreat
19-04-05, 13:36
Q:
What about the "mixed items' ID" problem which occurs after death (rezzing/GRing) - this bug has been here since the beggining of NC1 and its quite annoying to relog after each death to see if i'm wearing the redflash instead of PA and if i'm using pants instead of weapon.


gotta love dropping that "deseased flesh" and finding out you no longer have PA upon relog...

or trading someone your tech of paw of tiger and finding yourself a DS down later on.

Bugs Gunny
19-04-05, 13:45
I threw away non functional antipersonel rockets and after relogging i noticed i threw my 3 slot cs on the floor :-)

Selendor
19-04-05, 14:51
I totally agree with the need for this. Most of the limitations other KK depts have seem to be because of bugs and coding resources. Consequently I have 2 questions:

1) Exactly how many programmers are working on Neocron? What happened to the new coder you recruited?

2) Are you looking to recruit new coders? If not, will you be considering letting the community help you, regardless of the potential exploiting risk?

As we've seen confirmed by the review in PCgamer, Neocron has just not evolved fast enough in 2 years, and I would like to know what KK, and Holger especially, are planning to do about it.

athon
19-04-05, 16:47
I totally agree with the need for this. Most of the limitations other KK depts have seem to be because of bugs and coding resources. Consequently I have 2 questions:

1) Exactly how many programmers are working on Neocron? What happened to the new coder you recruited?

2) Are you looking to recruit new coders? If not, will you be considering letting the community help you, regardless of the potential exploiting risk?

As we've seen confirmed by the review in PCgamer, Neocron has just not evolved fast enough in 2 years, and I would like to know what KK, and Holger especially, are planning to do about it.
Regardless of the exploiting risk? I bloody well hope not.

And what's wrong with peoples memory? They ask for huge features like item tracking, then seem to completely forget the amount of time and effort that it will take to implement such features, and the fact that it ties up the coders for a while.

KK may have hired a new coder, but there's no way that the new coder will immediately be as adept as the other existing coders because the new coder will have to learn the engine, its quirks, the way things are done at KK, etc. In summary: More coders does not equal more work done more quickly. (And you can find many articles around the net reiterating this fact).

Athon Solo

Selendor
19-04-05, 16:54
Fine, but I'm asking for confirmation he/she actually still works there, and that they have more than Codi working on the game.

And yes, I would rather one or two people exploited if it meant the the majority of the population got to have the Neolauncher PRO interface and icon enhancements.

athon
19-04-05, 18:21
Fine, but I'm asking for confirmation he/she actually still works there, and that they have more than Codi working on the game.

And yes, I would rather one or two people exploited if it meant the the majority of the population got to have the Neolauncher PRO interface and icon enhancements.
Well that's your personal point of view. Personally I'd rather have less people exploiting than relatively useless imporvements like additional GUIs. I understand that some people don't like the current interface, but I don't believe it's something worth letting exploiters in over.

And by the looks of it (http://reakktor.com/html/kk_jobs.html) KK are still looking on expanding the number of developers.

Athon Solo

Jesterthegreat
19-04-05, 19:29
hmm...

"October 14, 2004 9:41:16 PM" when that page was last edited.

who knows what they are looking for really?

exotic psi is explained in the psi help window... doesnt mean its ingame.

Nidhogg
19-04-05, 21:50
I'll press the guys for feedback on the questions above, none of which are exactly new. ;) I wouldn't expect anything until after the international release though, just to set expectation.

N

enigma_b17
19-04-05, 22:09
speaking of which when is it, havent heard an exact date yet ?

athon
19-04-05, 23:07
speaking of which when is it, havent heard an exact date yet ?
Q3-2005 last I heard. I said it before, I'll say it again: It may have been a typo, but I bet at the end of the day it's not far from the truth.

Athon Solo

enigma_b17
20-04-05, 10:20
quater 3? thats one big feckin delay considering it was supposed to be released a while ago :/

athon
20-04-05, 11:08
quater 3? thats one big feckin delay considering it was supposed to be released a while ago :/
I believe Nidhogg's last quoted figure was 2 weeks from 2 weeks from 2 weeks from 2 weeks - or something to that effect.

Athon Solo

Selendor
20-04-05, 11:39
Lol, its funny because its true :lol: :(

Dr Strange
20-04-05, 14:58
As much as I like to debate the delays of the International Release and when it'll happen, let's keep this on track please? I put some thought into the questions already asked by myself (or at least phrasing them in a polite manner), and want others to be able to ask questions they may have related to the game engine/mechanics/coding without the thread getting locked.

Nid's said he'd look into asking around and seeing whats what so hopefully that will pan at, to at least a discussion round/interivew with the devs ala the way they did with content.

Dr Strange
09-05-05, 21:11
I'll press the guys for feedback on the questions above, none of which are exactly new. ;) I wouldn't expect anything until after the international release though, just to set expectation.

N

Bump, not to flame Nid but um...Seeing as how I.R. just keeps getting pushed back and back and back farther, can we get an update on these questions or just expect "no comment" as a response to them all?

athon
09-05-05, 23:55
Q3-2005 last I heard. I said it before, I'll say it again: It may have been a typo, but I bet at the end of the day it's not far from the truth.

Athon Solo
One month on, and my prediction is still looking good \o/

Athon Solo