View Full Version : Not an Exploit
First, a reminder of how we got to this point, for those of you who weren't around since NC1 beta 4. Once upon a time, when you died, your chat channel still worked. You couldn't bring up RPOS to change chat channels, but you could keep chatting on the same channel you were in.
They took this out because it became part of standard op-war tactics for some large teams: have one guy go directly into the enemy fortress and die, and just lie there narrating the other team's situation as best as he could see it from his viewpoint. People screamed bloody murder.
Enter TeamSpeak and Ventrillo.
Now teams and clans that have TeamSpeak and Ventrillo can use it to tell resurrecters where to find them, tell their team what's happening behind enemy lines, and all the other stuff that removing chat was supposed to prevent.
Now, I'm not calling for an end to TeamSpeak and Ventrillo. Reakktor isn't going to declare using them an exploit. (I can't even imagine them trying.) But right now, some people have abilities that others don't, and it gives them an unfair advantage. So there are three alternatives to the current situation:
1) Try to build some kind of software into client.exe that detects online voice chat programs and disables them, or screws up the microphone and speaker drivers, or some other way of blocking those services. (Not feasible.)
2) Build a TeamSpeak/Ventrillo like "team/clan voice chat" feature into the game, giving everybody the same advantage. (The best solution, but not even vaguely feasible probably.)
3) Re-enable text chat when you're dead, the way it used to be. (The most technically feasible, and fair to everyone.)
4) freeze frames. Nothing to see, move along, genrep.
[edit] but you can still be resurrected. Or perhaps
5) delayed view. 30 secs or more would nullify the knowledge from the dead.
[TgR]KILLER
12-03-05, 02:34
everybody can get coms.. its not like its hard.. even a clanmember can just host coms i always used to host a rw server when playing UT wars.. atm i got logins to fuckloads of vent and ts servers for nc.. its not like their hard to get by..
its just so much easyer asking for bufs or doing anything really talking > typing.. yes it gives an advantage but so does having 5 slot spells or a capped char -_-
being able to just talk to people make people stay and play.. if i couldn't talk to the people i play with i prob quit already.. half the fun is in that. actually hearing em etc.
ok umm,.. i dunno if anyone has ever played Republic commando, but when you die in that game you get some kind of blurred vision, that's a bit narrowed ,.. this would be ideal for dieing in NC, go check it out..
might be a good solution,..
(i'll go find a screenshot of it)
edit/ found screenshot
Meliglianor
12-03-05, 03:02
well i got an idea about this that i belive is very easy for KK's programmers to implement into the game : If you die you'll get a heavy drug flash. I agree that reporting status of the people you are fighting is a weak *** tactic (i have to admit that i have done it myself, and yes i am ashamed).
enigma_b17
12-03-05, 03:14
lol kk couldnt ban it, it doesnt interact with nc in any way and is a completely separate 3rd party program. And as said before its not exactly hard to get :P
well i got an idea about this that i belive is very easy for KK's programmers to implement into the game : If you die you'll get a heavy drug flash. I agree that reporting status of the people you are fighting is a weak *** tactic (i have to admit that i have done it myself, and yes i am ashamed).
Drug flash... elegant & effective. I like it!
Don't allow KK to screw with our voice coms, they will most likely disable your entire PC.
I think the better option would be to freeze the camera wherever you were looking last, to give the effect you are seeing through your eyes that you can't move. Or freeze the camera so it is looking down on you.
Jesterthegreat
12-03-05, 04:10
fade to black 5 secs after death (dont wanna miss the death animation :p)
Gee quess who just lost an op fight.... I mean come on I'm not having a go but would you have made this post had you won? (probably using a voice coms package lol) Every clan worth their salt uses voice coms, if they don't I suggest they look into it pronto. I have no personal beef in the matter being unclanned, but it's so widespread banning it would cause uproar, aside from opfights when I've been in clans voice comms have been invaluable in getting to know people and generally having a laugh. Why take that away? This game has soooo many issues I see this being number 783602 on the priority list ;)
Liebestoter
12-03-05, 05:45
Fade to black.
Problem solved.
First, a reminder of how we got to this point, for those of you who weren't around since NC1 beta 4. Once upon a time, when you died, your chat channel still worked. You couldn't bring up RPOS to change chat channels, but you could keep chatting on the same channel you were in.
They took this out because it became part of standard op-war tactics for some large teams: have one guy go directly into the enemy fortress and die, and just lie there narrating the other team's situation as best as he could see it from his viewpoint. People screamed bloody murder.
Enter TeamSpeak and Ventrillo.
Now teams and clans that have TeamSpeak and Ventrillo can use it to tell resurrecters where to find them, tell their team what's happening behind enemy lines, and all the other stuff that removing chat was supposed to prevent.
Now, I'm not calling for an end to TeamSpeak and Ventrillo. Reakktor isn't going to declare using them an exploit. (I can't even imagine them trying.) But right now, some people have abilities that others don't, and it gives them an unfair advantage. So there are three alternatives to the current situation:
1) Try to build some kind of software into client.exe that detects online voice chat programs and disables them, or screws up the microphone and speaker drivers, or some other way of blocking those services. (Not feasible.)
2) Build a TeamSpeak/Ventrillo like "team/clan voice chat" feature into the game, giving everybody the same advantage. (The best solution, but not even vaguely feasible probably.)
3) Re-enable text chat when you're dead, the way it used to be. (The most technically feasible, and fair to everyone.) Before we begin asking from an already overworked software team something like this, lets step back a little, so I'm asking what is it this important that can be comunicated, either typed or by voice when you are dead? I mean you are dead, people are running/dancing in front of you, or you are alone. what kind of important info can one communicate?
It's nice as it is, you can also have a nice view :D
* = 1 star = Terrible idea.
Nothing personal against the threadstarter but this is one of the WORST ideas ever.
NC disabling other programs I'm running?! No fecking way. Memory leaks are bad enough.
What people use Ventrillo or other programs for is their business. Did the thought ever occur to anyone that someone might be using the programs for something else OTHER than NC ?? I do other things on my PC than play NC and yes, I CAN MULTI-TASK. :p
Regarding the death screen going black ---BOOOOOO!!!
Didn't we have this discussion before?! How will I (in RL) know if I'm getting Rezzed without seeing a PPU's disco ball??? Perhaps other people have interest in staring at a blank screen until you 'magically' come back to life, but I don't have time like that, nor do I wish to spend my time like that.
A black death screen is a veiled attempt at nerfing PPUs. Why do people hate PPUs so much!?
-----------
Thread Rating: * = 1star = terrible
the solutiosn in the starters post arent good, but some of the ideas of removing/impairing sight on death are OK - except hurts not only op's but hunting when you need to know if your ppu can rezz you ETC when you dont have ts/vent
I say when you die you are forcibly GRed back to the closest safe GR point.
:-)
Major Havoc
12-03-05, 11:08
Level the playing field and incorporate Voice Comms into the client, as has been done with other games in the past, a classic example being Counter-Strike.
But ensure it's only available as an alternative to Clan / Team / Buddy - I don't think anyone would want Voice Comms available on Trade, nor DM for that matter, when I think of some the DM's I've received in the past following PvP 8|
Didn't we have Fade To Black at some point in NC1?
fade to black 5 secs after death (dont wanna miss the death animation :p)
agree
I say when you die you are forcibly GRed back to the closest safe GR point.
:-)
Then Resurection is Useless :rolleyes:
Gotterdammerung
12-03-05, 11:58
If there were a voice channel integrated into the game that became disabled when you died it still wouldn't stop someone from using ventrilo/teamspeak and if there were some mechanisim included in the program to prevent you from using one of those progs when NC is running then people would do like I do and run the secondary program off their laptop while they play NC.
I understand your frustration but I think that any measure incorporated into the game to prevent players from using a secondary voice program would be disasterous. I doubt many people would take kindly to being prevented from doing what they choose to do on their pc in their homes on their time.
It is I think just one of those things we all have to learn to live with
P.s. the drug flash idea is interesting but again I think would prove to be problematic. It would force all players that died in a manner where they weren't with their friends, had a ppu handy or were playing solo to GR. What if someone died and didn't happen to catch the exact sector they were in when they died and the drug flash kicked in? They'd have to lay there while their friend traversed the wastes looking for a body. Personally I don't see a problem if some person dies, logs out then logs back in later so their friend can come out and rez them and frankly some of the best screenshots of this game I have seen came from someone laying there dead in either the middle of a huge monster spawn or in the midst of an op fight with that "press mouse button 2" message plastered asross the middle of the shot
Major Havoc
12-03-05, 12:41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotterdammerung
I doubt many people would take kindly to being prevented from doing what they choose to do on their pc in their homes on their time.
[ edited ]
Sadly that's true. My PC in my home in my time, but I can't run a macro in the background that manipulates nothing other than my mouse in order to take some LOM pills whilst I go help my wife in the kitchen make dinner for the family. :confused:
Sadly that's true. My PC in my home in my time, but I can't run a macro in the background that manipulates nothing other than my mouse in order to take some LOM pills whilst I go help my wife in the kitchen make dinner for the family. :confused:
oh I see... how dare they.. not even the slightest connection to manipulating gameplay there. Maybe thats the same illegitimate reasoning for not letting me run a little piece of software that does the aiming for me while I scratch my balls :mad:
oh I see... how dare they.. not even the slightest connection to manipulating gameplay there. Maybe thats the same illegitimate reasoning for not letting me run a little piece of software that does the aiming for me while I scratch my balls :mad:
Aah so thats why you can have a macro in CS:S to buy your kit for you dependant on your cash, but an aimbot is a bannable offence. But its not as if Valve are a decent financially stable company that have been in the online gaming business for long than KK. Even a large company like Blizzard allow macros to be used for certain tasks, including many of the tradeskills, but I guess their team of developers are far inferior to KKs.
Personally I think KK don't have a clue as to how they would prevent certain aspects of the game to be exploiting (i.e. macroing booster reload or an aimbot) so they'd rather screw over the innocent people as well.
Aah so thats why you can have a macro in CS:S to buy your kit for you dependant on your cash, but an aimbot is a bannable offence. But its not as if Valve are a decent financially stable company that have been in the online gaming business for long than KK. Even a large company like Blizzard allow macros to be used for certain tasks, including many of the tradeskills, but I guess their team of developers are far inferior to KKs.
Personally I think KK don't have a clue as to how they would prevent certain aspects of the game to be exploiting (i.e. macroing booster reload or an aimbot) so they'd rather screw over the innocent people as well.
read your own lines there...
you cant gain points/kills in cs:s via a a buyscript. thus they are allowed as they dont give an unfair advantage (to make sure they dont, even when buy-time is set to 0, valve even included buyscripts as a feature). If you happen to have a lil script that does influence your aiming, you manipulate the equality/fairness of the gameplay: thus its forbidden. In Neocron, you can level your chars with a macro.. levelling your char / gaining money while not even paying attention to the game is ..well... can you play cs:s and win rounds/kills w/o paying attention to your screen, while having dinner..whatever?
LoM's are a pain ita... I agree, but they're ment to be ^^
The whole drug flash idea, I like that idea. Gives the dead player SOME view, but not enough view to relay information.
Dribble Joy
12-03-05, 14:50
Fade to black is a good idea.
This 'problem' isn't new and this solution isn't either.
I tell you what right lets just leave it as it is because it works and it works pretty damn nicely. ONOZ he can see me while he is dead and telling his clan mates we are sexing his body o_O
somepeople just need to I don't know....
/Edit I can't see me waiting for a rezz if my screen is all fucked up or even worse blacked out, how depressing that would be.
Bugs Gunny
12-03-05, 14:54
I'm all for a black screen and opening up the minimap in the left top corner so a person can guide someone to his body by the minimap.
If you realy are lost, you'll have to gr out.
Think about it, how would you like to get killed at an OP fight then having your screen go black. Not everyone uses voice comms so having the screen go black would just piss them off, how are they meant to know if there clan won the fight ? I like to watch the fight while I'm dead so that I know when to GR out or when to wait for a rezz.
frankly some of the best screenshots of this game I have seen came from someone laying there dead in either the middle of a huge monster spawn or in the midst of an op fight with that "press mouse button 2" message plastered asross the middle of the shot
This is true Gotter, many of my best screenys from NC 1 were when i was dead, i think the threadstarter had a bad day tbh, leave it how it is ;)
First, a reminder of how we got to this point, for those of you who weren't around since NC1 beta 4. Once upon a time, when you died, your chat channel still worked. You couldn't bring up RPOS to change chat channels, but you could keep chatting on the same channel you were in.
They took this out because it became part of standard op-war tactics for some large teams: have one guy go directly into the enemy fortress and die, and just lie there narrating the other team's situation as best as he could see it from his viewpoint. People screamed bloody murder.
Enter TeamSpeak and Ventrillo.
Now teams and clans that have TeamSpeak and Ventrillo can use it to tell resurrecters where to find them, tell their team what's happening behind enemy lines, and all the other stuff that removing chat was supposed to prevent.
Now, I'm not calling for an end to TeamSpeak and Ventrillo. Reakktor isn't going to declare using them an exploit. (I can't even imagine them trying.) But right now, some people have abilities that others don't, and it gives them an unfair advantage. So there are three alternatives to the current situation:
1) Try to build some kind of software into client.exe that detects online voice chat programs and disables them, or screws up the microphone and speaker drivers, or some other way of blocking those services. (Not feasible.)
2) Build a TeamSpeak/Ventrillo like "team/clan voice chat" feature into the game, giving everybody the same advantage. (The best solution, but not even vaguely feasible probably.)
3) Re-enable text chat when you're dead, the way it used to be. (The most technically feasible, and fair to everyone.)
this can easily be done with an le'd char
Y'all have misunderstood me.
I don't think that it's a good idea for Reakktor to even try to ban TeamSpeak or Ventrillo. And as much as I would absolutely love it if Reakktor incorporated similar functionality into Neocron (and not even vaguely just for this reason!), I don't see it happening any time in the next year or more.
Nor is my real problem with the fact that people can see around them when they're dead, and plenty of people have raised perfectly valid issues to explain why that feature is there.
No, what I really want is a fairer, more level playing field, and what I want doesn't require any change in the code other than to take out the old fix that disabled text chat between when you die and when you genrep or get resurrected.
(And for what it's worth -- I've never been in an op fight in NC2. The last op fight I was in was so long ago that TeamSpeak hadn't even been invented yet, or if it had nobody I knew in NC1 had heard of it. Hell's bells, I only took my LE chip out day before yesterday. This isn't about sour grapes. It's about the fact that since patch 130 was a yawner conversation is dead, so this was a good time to raise one of my pet peeves.)
death
1 min of slow body twitching :p
fade to black, except keep the RPOS when dead.
fair?
EDIT:
(And for what it's worth -- I've never been in an op fight in NC2. The last op fight I was in was so long ago that TeamSpeak hadn't even been invented yet, or if it had nobody I knew in NC1 had heard of it...
TeamSpeak has been around for 5+ years. :D I remember using it, or a variation of it in Delta Force and Operation FlashPoint :p
TeamSpeak has been around for 5+ years. :D I remember using it, or a variation of it in Delta Force and Operation FlashPoint :p
Hehe I loved OFP :)
Three: one ceasefire !!!
one: oh no....three is down! :lol:
Anyway being able to see what is going on while your dead can be usefull at times, as I said not everyone uses voice comms. So they would not know when the fight is over, that would drive people up the wall trust me leave it as it is.
Hehe I loved OFP :)
Three: one ceasefire !!!
one: oh no....three is down! :lol:.
ROFL OFP for teh win.
And really dont see the point of havein text when your dead, think of the bugs :rolleyes:
You can to talk when you are dead!! Just relog a bunch so you get the 50/50 bug and you can torment the poeple you are fighting or tell your clan what they want.
paolo escobar
12-03-05, 18:59
There was a thread about this some time ago, simple answer, when u die you are forced into the 1st person view point in postiion looking up at the sky, like you are laying on ur back.
Jesterthegreat
12-03-05, 20:56
There was a thread about this some time ago, simple answer, when u die you are forced into the 1st person view point in postiion looking up at the sky, like you are laying on ur back.
there were many answers.
who are we to say which is "right"?
Dr Strange
13-03-05, 10:21
If I remeber correctly (if wrong someone can verify), back in the day I'd say 1999, maybe 2000ish Sony was considering removing the ability to Alt-Tab out of Everquest. Mainly to help prevent various things like cheats and such but also as something to help stop voice communications (which were ironically kinda crude back then so they were a moot point).
There was a large thread about it on the IGN forums I remember reading.
Now, other than the obvious things people have said (using a 2nd PC for tsp/vent or rehacking the .exe to get around the file check for tsp/vent), someone in that EQ/IGN thread made a good point all those years ago; if the devs stopped you from using voice communication software to talk with friends/clanmates while playing the game, whats to stop you from say picking up the telephone and making a call?
Now back then that would be more drastic but with alot of phone companies offering free long distance plans, and the ability to conference call with multiple people it'd be a pain in the ass but you COULD still use a voice communication while playing an MMORPG, or NC2 in this case. This brings up the obvious "well they cant stop me from using the telephone" thing, which is exactly the point. One way or another, people will find and use a way of voice communication.
To those that say its an advantage some of us have, trust me I feel your pain. From personal experience, Ventrilo is a more demanding program, requiring more hardware abilities in soundcards across more platforms than teamspeak. So if I'm using vent with friends, I can listen but not talk due to software conflicts that cannot be fixed. Yet if I use teamspeak I am perfectly fine, only downside I've seen to teamspeak is a slightly less broadrange of codecs and it costs a tad more for hosting.
And also, while I can easily sympathize with those unable to use voice communications, I also stop to think it's 2005. I haven't had to honestly type to a teammate or friend since I'd say 1999 when I was playing Starcraft and had yet to discover one of the first voice comms, Roger Wilco. 6+ years later, well the only typing I do is the occasional forum whoring and simple ty's plz's ingame.
Major Havoc
13-03-05, 12:40
Which is why I stand by my opening comment on this thread and suggest that KK put voice comms on the To-Do List for a future release; then there would be no need for clans to have Ventrilo/TeamSpeak servers, smaller clans that can't afford to host a server themselves or pay to have it hosted will have voice comms as well, and the voice comms could be used to enhance Team and maybe even Buddy as well.
It's not about being able to lay dead in an OP and provide limited military intelligence to your clanmates in the heat of a fight, let's face it those players running around and sex'ing your body could be your clanmates ;)
But surely an MMORPG is about meeting people, forming friendships and alliances, leveling together, figthing beside (and sometimes against :D ) each other - is not realtime voice comms for all therefore essential - a neccessity not a luxury?
At least it would enable us to Team someone we see talking complete shit on Trade-NC and establish whether they are, infact, ten years old :cool:
Bugs Gunny
13-03-05, 14:35
I prefer putting my trust in teamspeak or ventrilo than
1)burdening KK with something they have no experience with
2)running software KK has no experience with and just cooked up.
If anyone want to use teamspeak, it's easy.
Just download the free client and server.
Go to www.no-ip.org
Download a client to make your dynamic ip address go synchronised with a no-ip.org domain name.
Leave your comp on 24/7 and let people connect to you server by using the no-ip.org domain name you own.
All free, and easy to use.
Blackscreen upon death would be nice. But it won't help much, as a lot of people use le'd alts to spy topside in an opfight.
Jesterthegreat
13-03-05, 14:43
I prefer putting my trust in teamspeak or ventrilo than
1)burdening KK with something they have no experience with
2)running software KK has no experience with and just cooked up.
agreed... not to mention everyones (potential) voicechat being on the same server / bandwidth as each other (or even the nc servers 8|)
Another point I don't think has been raised is the realism behind it all.
When you are dead.. you are.. well, dead. You shouldn't be able to see anything or do anything.
Even with all these fancy gizmotronics of the future..
But then I 'spose this argument is defeated by the ability to choose where to GR to after you're dead...
Eddie
Bugs Gunny
13-03-05, 15:04
:-)
And the fact that the guy who killed you had lighting shooting out of his ass, while his ppu buddy magicaly healed his scorched skin in front of your eyes.
what about removing other players from the screen as long as they don't interact with you (RESS!). That way you can still help your friends find your body + can't tell them about enemies around you.
:-)
And the fact that the guy who killed you had lighting shooting out of his ass, while his ppu buddy magicaly healed his scorched skin in front of your eyes.
Well.. that can be explained!
PSI = X-Men style mutation, just like the history implies! =P
Eddie
Fade to black, then when the player is getting ressed, let a light shine through the darkness (light at the end of the tunnel anyone?). Oh, and don't tell me this would be too hard to do, because it most certainly wouldn't... :rolleyes:
Jesterthegreat
14-03-05, 03:26
Well.. that can be explained!
PSI = X-Men style mutation, just like the history implies! =P
Eddie
really?
living in caves forced people to learn how to shoot lightning down fro ma sky they had never seen?
In my opinion TS and Ventrilo is a gameplay enhancer, a binding factor that helps a clan communicate, not only for outpost war, but for asking help, for leveling, and so on. Adding features that restrict the use of voice communication is therefore a very bad idea.
I'm not so sure it's even a good idea to make a dead person unable to see his/her whereabouts either, since it would make it harder to get a PPU to your location for a resurrection. And don't you tell me you don't enjoy goading someone you just killed by using the 'sex' and 'mad' emote. :D
1) Try to build some kind of software into client.exe that detects online voice chat programs and disables them
:lol:
0.00 stars
N3v3rM0r3
a black sreen when you die.......... o_O
be nice if you cant remember where your belt dropped
QuantumDelta
15-03-05, 07:02
Then Resurection is Useless :rolleyes:
Ress is useless.
FTB Five seconds after death please.
How about not trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist and just play the game? Are you really so bored that you have to invent problems just to be able to discuss them?
How about not trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist and just play the game? Are you really so bored that you have to invent problems just to be able to discuss them?
I agree with this guy tbh, there's much more important problems. Honestly what harm does having a spy in an op fight do? You can't see huge amounts of the battlefield, you don't have an impact on damage people do or damage people take.
Vent for the win tbh but fade to black, like some CS servers do, would be a good idea. Or maybe the 'choose genrep' box should just auto-appear so you've got less of the screen and you can't pan the camera.
If I die I want to atleast see the rest of the fight, so I would say no to fading to black.
Didnt OFP have its own voice chat built in? (which was crap if memory serves)
I can see where Brad is coming from and I think people are thinking Brad has an axe to grind but thats not the impression I got from his post - hes identified an inequality in the game and has opened a debate (with some suggestions) on a fix - not really any different that suggesting certain classes are inbalanced and suggesting some fixes. The fact that other people think this inequality isnt as important as other issues doesnt make his point any less accurate.
Assuming that the earlier comment about Brad losing in an OpWar just prior to this post is correct - People complain when they get smack talked by a loser, yet it would appear that people just want to complain when a loser does anything at all (is winning no longer enough for some of you? You have to try and undermine that players real world worth as well!)
The problem is that any 'fix' for this still allows LE spys to do the same job (and since I'm a non-PvP/LE player I'm never going to subscribe to calls for LEs to be deactivated in war zones....)
If I die I want to atleast see the rest of the fight, so I would say no to fading to black.
What he said ...
Sadly that's true. My PC in my home in my time, but I can't run a macro in the background that manipulates nothing other than my mouse in order to take some LOM pills whilst I go help my wife in the kitchen make dinner for the family. :confused:
Slightly offtopic, but while we're at it:
why not a built-in multiplier for actions like constructing or LOMming that do not influence the outcome of fights? Limit to max. 10 repetitions so it does reduce the "stupid clicking" but is not a way to cap your char overnight.
Heavyporker
18-03-05, 04:04
To the mod - you can't see which zone you were in when you're dead, so if you died without knowing where you died, really, kind of moot trying to flag down your PPU buddy.
To hegemon - what a trollish post. This is not an "invented problem". It is a real problem that sidesteps all sense of RP (military intel while dead) and fair-play (some clans can pay up/utilize for voice comm while others can't).
On topic - I strongly support the idea of first person, face-to-the-sky vision with blurred peripherial vision.
To hegemon - what a trollish post. This is not an "invented problem". It is a real problem that sidesteps all sense of RP (military intel while dead)
It's an imaginary problem because it doesn't impact anyones game experience in any significant way. If it disturbs your sense of role play, it's your problem to close your eyes and turn off the volume when you're dead. Then you can role play being dead. Since role play is something you do, not something that is being done to you.
The main reason people play this game is to have fun. Staring at a black screen is not fun. Not being able to talk to people is not fun. Sure, death isn't supposed to be the best part of the experience, but there is no reason to make it even more frustrating and boring. Especially, as you often propose, just to enchance your role play experience.
and fair-play (some clans can pay up/utilize for voice comm while others can't).
Right. Fair play. I have a friend who doesn't have his left hand, let's all just play with only the mouse, no keyboard, in the name of fair play. I know a guy who's deaf, we have to turn off all sound when playing. Hey, what about those blind people?
If someone chooses (yes, it's a choice, in the modern world there is no reason to not use voice communication) not to use a tool that enchances the experience, it's his own damned problem. It's not a cost issue, there are lots of free servers out there. The clan can set up temporary servers when they are online.
HopesDespair
18-03-05, 07:26
To The Original Poster:
*points to his post about Public Teamspeak*
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=123690
Problem Solved :)
Glad I could help
Scaramanga
19-03-05, 03:31
I'm not entirely sure about the extent of realism required in a a game. However, if players can see things whilst dead ingame and use out of game methods to communicate this to an ingame comrade, how diffrernt is that from using an le'ed runner to spy?
Would a deterent like armour taking damage when runner is dead be enough to counter this "exploit"?
Heavyporker
19-03-05, 06:03
It's all so fucking simple. Just severely curtail ability of dead runners to see any fucking shit. Either the first person eyes up thing, or super-blur everything so you only can see broad strokes of color or light.
No forced GR. No total blindness.
edit - oh, and in reponse to hegemon - Oh, please. Get real. I'm deaf, I'm not proposing that KK cut out all sound in the game. I'm not proposing we handicap everyone to pull the game down to some minimal thing. I'm talking about tweaking something so it's more sensible and equitable. Get real, hegemon.
I'm not proposing ANYTHING solely for MY SOLE, PERSONAL PLEASURE. I fucking know there's a line between enjoyable RP and total anal-retentive RP fascism.
This death thing at the moment is not something that's well-thought out.
Dead people don't talk, FFS.
If the dead runner can't see anything worth talking about, he won't fucking talk. Period.
Dr Strange
19-03-05, 06:17
It's all so fucking simple. Just severely curtail ability of dead runners to see any fucking shit. Either the first person eyes up thing, or super-blur everything so you only can see broad strokes of color or light.
No forced GR. No total blindness.
If the dead runner can't see anything worth talking about, he won't fucking talk. Period.
Not to get in between you and hege but there are flaws in your idea;
A, if you even for a fraction of a second considered the whole blind-after-death thing (even a little blurryness) then you need to remove the cost of GR after death. I'm sorry but I LOVED the backpack feature, it saved me a shitload of cash instead of auto recovering it I could retrieve it physically. Now, thats not an option and yea I've lived with it. But if I cannot get my items back for free, even with a "handicap" of blurryness then there needs to be no charge for GRing after death. I'll admit first and foremost, I die alot. Quite often. That 5000+ adds up each day.
B, the whole issue is a moot point. Check the year, it is 2005. Do you realize how much tweaking and shit I've done just to be able to play the game? If you're computer cannot handle voice communications or you cannot afford $10 a month for hosting or simply $5 for a microphone from Walmart then you need to play another game. Guess what, times change and you change with them. If other clans use voice comms, well then step up to the bar chip out $10-15 for hosting a month and compete. If you can't do that, don't bitch about it. Voice comms have been a HUGE part of online games since the dawn of Quake 1 and that was over a decade ago almost. I cannot afford multiple accounts, should other people with 2 or more accounts be penalized? No. I can't afford a good video card, should other players with the latest ATI or Nvidia cards be penalized? Price is not an issue. Technology compatibility is not an issue. Deal with it.
Jesterthegreat
19-03-05, 10:29
blah blah
this is hardly a new topic.
the people who are discussing this are the people who made valid suggestions in the past.
people say this is ok cos an LE'd char can do it... does that mean using an LE'd spy at op wars is "ok" now then? what fucking tactics people consider to be the norm these days.
if thats the case then the quality of players has dropped massively since the last time the community discussed this.
Dr Strange
19-03-05, 12:32
this is hardly a new topic.
the people who are discussing this are the people who made valid suggestions in the past.
people say this is ok cos an LE'd char can do it... does that mean using an LE'd spy at op wars is "ok" now then? what fucking tactics people consider to be the norm these days.
if thats the case then the quality of players has dropped massively since the last time the community discussed this.
Theres a difference in quality and doing what you can to survive. Personally I hate things like LE'd spies, noob buffing, etc But if you don't keep up with times and don't apply those tactics while your enemies do...Well its no guarantee you'll lose but it is a large disadvantage. Same thing with voice comms. If you can't keep up with what it takes to play games, don't play them or simply deal with it. I mean I'd love to play Half Life 2 or Doom 3 but my machine doesn't handle them. Do I fly off the handle and blame it on other things? No I accepted the fact I cannot do certain things, and I have options open to me either deal with that or do something about it.
If you can't deal with it, your loss don't punish everyone else. Now you wanna question tactics, morals and ethics I'm sure we can point this thread into the direction of former NCAT ally killing but hey thats different right?
Jesterthegreat
19-03-05, 13:02
Theres a difference in quality and doing what you can to survive. Personally I hate things like LE'd spies, noob buffing, etc But if you don't keep up with times and don't apply those tactics while your enemies do...Well its no guarantee you'll lose but it is a large disadvantage. Same thing with voice comms. If you can't keep up with what it takes to play games, don't play them or simply deal with it. I mean I'd love to play Half Life 2 or Doom 3 but my machine doesn't handle them. Do I fly off the handle and blame it on other things? No I accepted the fact I cannot do certain things, and I have options open to me either deal with that or do something about it.
If you can't deal with it, your loss don't punish everyone else. Now you wanna question tactics, morals and ethics I'm sure we can point this thread into the direction of former NCAT ally killing but hey thats different right?
please quote where he said he is unable to use voice communications, so he wants this done to counter it.
your talking shit.
we all know what NCAT did... but at least we didnt make petty little excuses for it. people like DoW say "we do it for symps", and now people are saying "we use LE spies because everyone else does". well its a never ending circle.
you do it cos they do it
they do it cos you do it
we all know what NCAT did... but at least we didnt make petty little excuses for it. people like DoW say "we do it for symps",
We did it for symps rather than exploiting what was right in front of us. Personally I'd have rather moved my characters over to the other side legitimatly than get banned in the process.
Jesterthegreat
21-03-05, 01:35
We did it for symps rather than exploiting what was right in front of us. Personally I'd have rather moved my characters over to the other side legitimatly than get banned in the process.
killing npc's for symps was never an exploit... killing things such as NCPD HQ NPC's from a safespot was abusing a safespot.
killing npc's for symps was never an exploit... killing things such as NCPD HQ NPC's from a safespot was abusing a safespot.
How about killing a pro-city character that transferred into NC2 with 0 SL, so that it never raised and if you killed it you lost the relevant symps for allied killing, without losing SL yourself?
I'd say that was a pretty big exploit there, that we chose not to use. But I guess you didn't know about that.
Jesterthegreat
21-03-05, 08:57
[QUOTE=MorganthBut I guess you didn't know about that.[/QUOTE]
i knew about it... but i try not to post about active exploits on the forums though (the NCPD HQ is inaccessable so no-one will rush out and do it because i mentioned it)
there are ways to get symp other than ally killing and exploiting.
Bozz-Von Mel
21-03-05, 16:50
there are ways to get symp other than ally killing and exploiting.
Of course, but most people are too lazy to do missions, change to CM, etc.
There is no way around the teamspeak thing. If both sides have dead players talking then who has an unfair advantage?
Dribble Joy
21-03-05, 17:18
You can't do missions when you have fucked up symps.
You can't do missions when you have fucked up symps.
We have a winner!
How do you expect people who have -99 in every DoY symp and fairly low CM symp to get TG symp then that doesn't involve exploiting or allied killing?
Jesterthegreat
21-03-05, 20:32
killing npc's for symps was never an exploit... killing things such as NCPD HQ NPC's from a safespot was abusing a safespot.
^ read
Digital-Talios
21-03-05, 22:14
The Dead cannot speak.... well maybe Crahn can.
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