View Full Version : [Merged]OP FIGHTS - Hack Net
it is impossible!
can't take ops cause few lamers camping in front of the syncro of hacknet.
op fights was better on nc1.... indeed.....
pls KK do something
N3v3rM0r3
[PiN]Fluffy
03-03-05, 14:02
Agreed. Cough* cough* Rdgoz Cough* cough* HAVE NEVER done a fight without having someone CAMPED Next to the hackterm in hacknet to take the op. This makes it impossible for other hackers to defend because even if u log in syncronizing or 00 buged YOu can STILL take the op. I think you should make it so THat if you log out it takes you back to the Closest uplink. SOmething like an apartment if u understand what im saying.
FluFFy
tbh i dont understand op hacking anymore :wtf:
is it u gotta hack 3 layers then someone goes into hacknet for osme reason......
i had a 2 man clan once with 7 ops :p
Bugs Gunny
03-03-05, 14:07
Even though i have a softwarecapping hacknet hacker, i think the whole hacknet op war thing is stupid.
It all comes down to having 2 high level hacknet hackers guarding the op.
The way it is now, you can defend an op with TWO , yes two people.
Have one guard the sunch from the uplink and another the synch from the op.
Whoever comes through dies before he can even see what killed him.
It was a lot more fun, when everyone was involved in the op fight.
Let the hackers have some fun, or make a pure hack...
Jesterthegreat
03-03-05, 14:24
hackers need something...
but hacknet being the absolute end of an op war sucks. every clan with a HN hacker will camp the HN zoneline... cos thats the only valid tactic.
i hate it. completely.
if HN was optional for any layer... and the HN thing had a mini hack game (or you had to get though counter measures to get to the "button".
this would mean your 4 hackers could be spread throughout the real world and HN, as you see fit.
tbh hacknet sucks :(
should just be 3 hackers 3 layers no hack net and more fighting...
yeah, should be more fights and less lamer
ps: remove hacknet from op
N3v3rM0r3
Jesterthegreat
03-03-05, 14:40
yeah, should be more fights and less lamer
ps: remove hacknet from op
N3v3rM0r3
i wouldnt say remove it...
i'd say make it optional, and add hardcore mobs in each op HN (so the hack has work... not jusy 30 hack and the ability to press their "use" key).
Bugs Gunny
03-03-05, 14:40
I agree.
I mean, to take and hold ops now, you need someone willing to make a char that does nothing but live and level in a boring looking world where he falls off ledges, and shoots the same 4 mob models over and over and over with 3 weapons, and the same 4 sounds.
I've lomed my spy to hacknet spy and back 4 times now, and he's lost about 15 int and dex levels. Each time i get so sick of hacknet i lom him to something else.
Jesterthegreat
03-03-05, 14:43
I agree.
I mean, to take and hold ops now, you need someone willing to make a char that does nothing but live and level in a boring looking world where he falls off ledges, and shoots the same 4 mob models over and over and over with 3 weapons, and the same 4 sounds.
I've lomed my spy to hacknet spy and back 4 times now, and he's lost about 15 int and dex levels. Each time i get so sick of hacknet i lom him to something else.
i deleted my near capped HN spy to make a rifle spy cos HN was yawncore and i cba to lom
:p
Bugs Gunny
03-03-05, 15:15
I'm going to spend the next few days on my second comp loming my hacknet spy again.... into a gimped hacknet droner.
NERF THE HACKNET... cos 2 or 3 people are good in hacknet :rolleyes:
[TgR]KILLER
03-03-05, 15:53
i don't spend any time in hacknet tbh. but yea if you can get killed while zoning that easy it should get nerfed.. but ofcourse pure hackers build for hacknet will always eat with people who are just comming in to hit the switch or however that goes. like i said i don't spend alot of time in hacknet i don't know how it works :p
Notorious Fish
03-03-05, 15:58
yeah, should be more fights and less lamer
ps: remove hacknet from op
N3v3rM0r3
Perhaps it should depend on hack skill.
Like a novice hacker would have to go into hacknet becuase he inst good enough to do it any other way. That could be like skill 110.
Then like a skilled hacker could pop in to HN but be at a random point RIGHT NEXT TO the hack thing in HN. Because he is that good. Skill 130 we could say.
Then you have the master hackers who dont even have to go into hacknet because they are so good they can do it all from the hack term. Hack skill 160 should be fine.
Numbers are random made up ones. I dont have a hacker so I dont know what is a lot of hack. But I think I am pretty close. In the ball park at least :)
What do you guys think? To me this is logical. If you are really good at something then, your goin to be faster, and more efficent then others. Let me know :)
Bugs Gunny
03-03-05, 16:03
Right now it's like this:
No matter how big of a fighting force you have, if there's 2 hacknet hackers camping inside, you're not gonna get the op.
A big part of the NC1 fun is taken away in NC2, due to that certain bottleneck in the whole op taking experience.
Notorious Fish
03-03-05, 16:15
Right now it's like this:
No matter how big of a fighting force you have, if there's 2 hacknet hackers camping inside, you're not gonna get the op.
A big part of the NC1 fun is taken away in NC2, due to that certain bottleneck in the whole op taking experience.
Yes so what do you think about my idea. If you have high enough hack YOU NEVER SET FOOT IN HN. In retrospect its JUST like NC1, you just have to have enough hack. COMMENT
Heavyporker
03-03-05, 16:33
Hm. Eh.
I think that maybe you could have the option to choose either a level 3 160 hack or a hacknet trip/mini-game to toggle the button to take the OP.
That way, only 3 hacks needed and hacknet is optional.
or make the HN hack the 1st one of the four.
game wise it still requires someone to go in and play with the op console.
RP wise it is a hacker un-locking the system for the 3 main hackers to break the system down.
if its the 1st hack to do it will be done before the defending clan(s) even mount their defense.
-also the imbalance only works for real op fights, and is a good defense. the number of op's that change hands without a fight far outweigh those that do.
Bugs Gunny
03-03-05, 16:38
Now that's a good idea. Except for the fact you'll see people hacking first layers here and there all the time, as the nodes in hacknet for the ops are so close to each other :-)
<---- not a hacker.
not even a little bit :( would like a little less hackable stuff honestly.
i like the "feature" HN to get an op. ppl nead to realize that HN should be like a 2nd world beside NC2, so its okay holding an op with 2-3 hn-chars. But NH needs a heavy rework on op-hacking. its bullsXXt, that u can "park" any char beside hn-op-term, logout, fight outside till 3rd layer is hacked, relog and jsut need to "use-key-bind" the term. at least the logged-out chars should be moved back where they just entered HN or they should spawn downstairs inside the op's HN to get some kind of fight. if the parked chars are just next to the term, they can even take the op while they're sync-bugged or when they're dead (dead-with-sync-bug).
PLS FIX IT :rolleyes:
Bugs Gunny
03-03-05, 16:46
I think that's a strategy that came about to overcome the synczone camping.
If HN layer stays in it needs SERIOUS rework. But it might be better to just remove it completely.
I think that's a strategy that came about to overcome the synczone camping.
If HN layer stays in it needs SERIOUS rework. But it might be better to just remove it completely.
how about a zone, where you could do a real fight in? like i think it was NF level2?
edit : naa ........ i jsut say ... HN Turrets :D and a reworked HN op-zone
Bugs Gunny
03-03-05, 16:54
It's plain silly.
It's on about the same level as needing a high level droner to have his drone taga a flag on a high pole inside the op, so you can take it.
Or having a pilot that can land a vehicle on the roof to take the op.
The problem is it makes the whole group effort depend on one special type of char, and the whole fight fals or stands with one guy doing the final thing.
Plus the fact that most people just have that hacknet char to log on to when third layer goes. Most hacknet hackers don't play their char as much as their other chars. (there are exceptions i know)
Notorious Fish
03-03-05, 16:59
Bugs werent you NExt? Or did xtort go next i thought they were crahn or TS...
101st left nc and went to crahn -so they could not raid fa sec :D dammit.
x-tort were TS, but like me probably got miffed with getting fucked in the nc2 transfer. TS were the best faction and nc2 killed it. grr.
guess they made friends with each other in crahn. :) dirty little crahnies. :lol:
Bugs Gunny
03-03-05, 17:39
Well, we were all ganking each other in our clan appartement, getting red sl and doy FS.
Then one of us was smart enough to as : "Hey, any idea which faction we're going to?"
"Euh..... Dunno.... FA? .... BD? ...."
"Oh guys, i know some people who know some people that fought some other people. Well, it's not those guys i'm talking about, but i was in a tsunami clan once and i'll go have a chat with them, maybe we can merge."
"Yeah let's merg *slays another clannie* Merging is good, it's good against inbreeding"
It was something like that actualy :-)
And i love being DOY, friendly neighbours good leveling .... good food... (rats in doy are ok when cooked)
Liebestoter
03-03-05, 17:46
Let owners of ops buy hacknet 'firewalls' - mobs that fight back in Hacknet as defense. Think - turrets for hacknet. Varying degrees of strength, type, etc.
PROBLEM SOLVED.
Bugs Gunny
03-03-05, 17:48
Solved? what's solved? Nothing.
Still people caming the synchzone and logging on next to the node.
*Note what Follows is just an idea I came up with while reading this, So the guys in the office have no clue as to what I'm about to say. So don't take it as a done deal, or something that will be put in*
How about something like this. 2 Main Changes to the Op Hacknet zone.
First up. There should be some sort of AI Mob that sits over the terminal you need to trigger, that way it can't be activated until the AI mob is killed. The AI Mob can act like a turret so the owning clan gets the same "turret killed" message. This follows more with the fact that you need to beat an "AI" in the normal Hackgame outside of Hacknet.
Second up. Turn the Zone into 3 platforms. 2 of which are higher up and off to the sides of the main platform that contains the "AI Boss".
The 2 on each side should have a wall with an opening so that you can get down off it onto the main platform. The height of the platforms off the main should be large enough that you can't jump up onto one from the main, yet low enough that the fall damage wouldnt be anything at all or very low at most.
Have the zone work like an Op's Genrep, those who are not in the clan zone in onto one of the Platforms, while those in the clan get sent to another. That way no one can camp the others Sync point. As for allies/neutrals of the owning clans faction, have them follow the same rules and possibly drop in at a 4th platform.
Notorious Fish
03-03-05, 20:07
*Note what Follows is just an idea I came up with while reading this, So the guys in the office have no clue as to what I'm about to say. So don't take it as a done deal, or something that will be put in*
How about something like this. 2 Main Changes to the Op Hacknet zone.
First up. There should be some sort of AI Mob that sits over the terminal you need to trigger, that way it can't be activated until the AI mob is killed. The AI Mob can act like a turret so the owning clan gets the same "turret killed" message. This follows more with the fact that you need to beat an "AI" in the normal Hackgame outside of Hacknet.
Second up. Turn the Zone into 3 platforms. 2 of which are higher up and off to the sides of the main platform that contains the "AI Boss".
The 2 on each side should have a wall with an opening so that you can get down off it onto the main platform. The height of the platforms off the main should be large enough that you can't jump up onto one from the main, yet low enough that the fall damage wouldnt be anything at all or very low at most.
Have the zone work like an Op's Genrep, those who are not in the clan zone in onto one of the Platforms, while those in the clan get sent to another. That way no one can camp the others Sync point. As for allies/neutrals of the owning clans faction, have them follow the same rules and possibly drop in at a 4th platform.
Interesting...
Yes it is...
But I dont have have a Single hacknet guy only been in HN once.
So my opinion is nullifed here.
Good idea lupus, i like it!
think all players use hacknet just at op wars.... and it's not good...
in my honest opinion we have to find a new role for hacknet out of op wars.
something like :
-mobs who drop rare items
-some parts can be find into hacknet ( for rare items or normal items )
-change some epic runs and put hacknet in some theyr missions
-do an hacknet-frag
my english is not so good, and think i dont understand all post of lupus ( that i understand : we have to fight with and IA and not with a player, i say right? )
N3v3rM0r3
Notorious Fish
03-03-05, 20:50
think all players use hacknet just at op wars.... and it's not good...
in my honest opinion we have to find a new role for hacknet out of op wars.
something like :
-mobs who drop rare items
-some parts can be find into hacknet ( for rare items or normal items )
-change some epic runs and put hacknet in some theyr missions
-do an hacknet-frag
my english is not so good, and think i dont understand all post of lupus ( that i understand : we have to fight with and IA and not with a player, i say right? )
N3v3rM0r3
Pfft your just jealous you didnt come up with the idea...
Dont listen to him Lu THAT WAS A GREAT IDEA he is just sick of him HN SPY gettng pwnt at ops..
Heavyporker
03-03-05, 21:01
re:nevermore
rareparts for special weapons are already in HackNet
it would be grossly unfair to force some aspects of epic runs into hacknet as it would exclude a LOT of the player population.
Maybe, just maybe if it was only some item or loot from hacknet that you could hire a hacker to get if you couldn't hack.. but if it was an npc in hacknet that you HAD to interact with, that'd fuck people over majorly.
can u tell me the lupus idea with simple words pls?
my english is not so good and internet traductors work not so good :p
N3v3rM0r3
Notorious Fish
03-03-05, 21:05
can u tell me the lupus idea with simple words pls?
my english is not so good and internet traductors work not so good :p
N3v3rM0r3
A HN boss guards the HN
is like a OP turret you can set to GR friendly/ Attack hostile
A HN boss guards the HN
is like a OP turret you can set to GR friendly/ Attack hostile
only enemy can go in hacknet? ( if not is the same : defenders stay in fron of syncro ).
is avaible only by the op hack and not by the underground gr ?
N3v3rM0r3
Notorious Fish
03-03-05, 21:10
only enemy can go in hacknet? ( if not is the same : defenders stay in fron of syncro ).
is avaible only by the op hack and not by the underground gr ?
N3v3rM0r3
Lupus? Your needed to elborate. :)
Lupus? Your needed to elborate. :)
it can be a very nice idea ... wanna know more :p
N3v3rM0r3
Ch1n Th3 M4g
03-03-05, 21:35
the problem with hacknet isent the op sec itself
its the lifts outside the op's
there so slow that ur dead buy the 2 lame camping hackers b4 u get close 2 the top..
its stupid..if u camp the top there no way a red can kill u cos hes got a massive
advantage.
i remember the old days were 10 people could take a op without
having 2 wankers stoping every 1 and the defendiing clan not even bother loggin fighting players
cos the attacking clan gets bored and leaves
u dont think about things b4 u implament em do u kk
:rolleyes:
M
Lupus. Nice ideas. "Almost" sounds like what I suggested 6 months ago. :) Nr 2 is the best of coz.
You must be aware of one thing. Most people that scream and complain come into hacknet with rifle spys with a little hack and then complain coz they cant handle pure hackers inside. DOH! I wonder why...
About the zoning problem. Its exactly the same as outside HN. If you zone very slowly you will be dead if someone is right beside you no matter if its inside or outside HN. I know that lots of people from a certain TT clan often zone very slowly since they live in Italy and have really crappy ping. I feel sorry for you guys but you cant really expect me or anyone else to not shoot at you while syncing, can you? I mean, if I showed up at a fight somewhere and I blacksynced, would you let me live until I come back? Of coz you wont.
Hacknet aint perfect. But so aint anything in this game. Lupus suggestions would fix some of the problems and when you finally can get the rares HN will boom abit since everyone wants new shotgun-pistols and such. That will also help solve the biggest problem with HN, that there is so little to do.
To people complaining about 2 hackers being able to hold an OP against anything; That pure and utter bullshit. Is it really that hard to get a pure hacker or 2 of your own? As an example, Ive taken an OP being protected by 4 hackers all alone. Sure, it took 3 or 4 tries but I still managed. (and was really fun)
Sorry to hear that you left hacknet Average Joe. Was fun fighting you since you were one of the few I met with some actual player skill too. :)
I'll try and explain it a little better now.
Orion']About the zoning problem. Its exactly the same as outside HN. If you zone very slowly you will be dead if someone is right beside you no matter if its inside or outside HN.This is where the idea of the seperate platforms came in. You have the main fighting platform, where the AI Mob is and the terminal you need to tag to deactivate that part of the op take over.
The other 2-3 platforms are for the different factions that would show up.
Players from the clan who owns the Op would sync in on Platform 2.
Players who are hostile to the Op owners faction would sync in on Platform 3.
Players from factions that are Allied/Neutral to the Op owners would sync in on platform 4.
These platforms are ment ot offer protection during Sync. The Sync in point would have a barrier to protect those who are in sync from being attacked. Think of it as working the same as the Genreps already where the owning clan Syncs into the Underground, where as everyone else ends up at the normal Genr outside. You would not be able to get back onto these platforms from the main platform.
As for the AI Mob it's self, consider it like a Turret. It attacks based on how the Security for the Op is set. The same as regular turrets outside HackNet. The only twist would be that the AI mob wouldn't be able to move, and that it would spawn ontop of the Terminal you need to Tag. Therefore you wouldnt be able to tag the Op until you kill the AI.
This would mean that no one could camp the sync points in the zone, and that the attackers not only have to deal with the clan owners but also the AI guarding the terminal. This stops people from just running past the defenders just to tag it.
Dr Strange
04-03-05, 02:29
Even though i have a softwarecapping hacknet hacker, i think the whole hacknet op war thing is stupid.
It all comes down to having 2 high level hacknet hackers guarding the op.
The way it is now, you can defend an op with TWO , yes two people.
Have one guard the sunch from the uplink and another the synch from the op.
Whoever comes through dies before he can even see what killed him.
It was a lot more fun, when everyone was involved in the op fight.
This method is kind of exploit-able;
2 guys defend the op in hacknet
The attackers take down the layers and then instead of normally proceeding into hacknet to grab the console, they simply log in a hacker who synched out right next to the console and tap it to take over the op. (most times he can tap it before dying, majority of times)
So the whole "just defend in hacknet" thing has its weakness.
Jesterthegreat
04-03-05, 14:26
Solved? what's solved? Nothing.
Still people caming the synchzone and logging on next to the node.
not true... you could hire mobs to camp the zoneline for you :p
if it stays 90% as is then it needs muliple random spawn points (like NF) and they all have to be away from the button.
:Edit: one more thing...
anyone high up in hacknet has an immediate advantage. 1. its a bitch to aim at em, but they can aim at you fairly easy 2. the grav lifts are so slow your dead by the time you reach them.
it needs to have more than a button :rolleyes:
the current state of the HN-op-thingy is ...... useless in my eye's cause the desk is just too near of the zoneline.
edit : how about 3 buttons on different layers?
yeah but its hard enough to get to that 1 button, let alone 3...
unless you mean any 1 of those will work
Lupus idea is really great. http://forum.neocron.com/images/rating/rating_5.gif
How about adding the ability for the op owner to drop turrets in hacknet too?
How about being able to buy Hacknet ICE from HEWs to, much like you can with RL turrets. And to well, anyone - having hacked the third layer, how do you get direct to the OP hacknet?
Heavyporker
05-03-05, 23:00
ICE would be awesome.
But not turrets.
Think of them as spawnable program-mobs that can move around to get to the target. (ie soulcluster)
Because if you try to make ICE like turrets, they're only gonna block the walkways. Making any sort of hacker vs hacker duel impossible.
Personally, i don't see what's wrong with the hacknet part of OP taking/defending. I think it finally brings a bit of balance to the game.
How else can a clan with 3 people online defend against an attack from some kick-ass clan with 20+ attackers? Outside the UG, u wouldn't survive the barrels / moonstrikers / apus for more than a second. Getting your only online clannies to the hackterm is pretty much the last line of defence. At least you know where the attack is gonna come from and you can hold off the enemy for long enough in the hope that a stealther hacker can reset the OP security.
Some of the most fun i've had in an OP fight is camping the hacknet long after the 3rd layer has gone down. If your strength is fighting outside, then fight outside. If your strength is hacknet, then do what you do best.
It's nice to see some OP fights involve a little strategy and planning other than brute force.
/edit: sorry to be thick here, but what's ICE ?
Heavyporker
06-03-05, 00:18
it's a cyberpunk term. think it means Intrusion Countermeasure Electronics, from William Gibson's 'Neuromancer'.
(http://www.dictionary.net/searchbox.php?st=2&query=Intrusion%20Countermeasure%20Electronics)
Jesterthegreat
06-03-05, 06:32
I think it finally brings a bit of balance to the game.
How else can a clan with 3 people online defend against an attack from some kick-ass clan with 20+ attackers?
i read these 2 lines...
you would have trouble contradicting yourself more...
it's a cyberpunk term. think it means Intrusion Countermeasure Electronics, from William Gibson's 'Neuromancer'.
(http://www.dictionary.net/searchbox.php?st=2&query=Intrusion%20Countermeasure%20Electronics)
this game does need to get a bit more to its cyberpunk roots imo :p
you would have trouble contradicting yourself more...
You misunderstand...
What i was trying to say was: 20+ clan taking OP from 2 or 3 defenders = unbalanced. Having those 2 or 3 defenders actually able to defend against 20+ attackers (and for some considerable time too) redresses the balance.
Jesterthegreat
06-03-05, 06:37
You misunderstand...
What i was trying to say was: 20+ clan taking OP from 2 or 3 defenders = unbalanced. Having those 2 or 3 defenders actually able to defend (and for some considerable time too) redresses the balance.
your saying 2 or 3 people being able to kill 20+ is more balanced than them dieing? if thats what your saying i disagree... if not then your right, i misuderstand.
i think he means, 3 people VS 20 with a PPU is unblanced, 3 people VS WITHOUT a ppu, they sorta have a chance...but they would still die in the end
//edit: i think
Jesterthegreat
06-03-05, 06:44
i think he means, 3 people VS 20 with a PPU is unblanced, 3 people VS WITHOUT a ppu, they sorta have a chance...but they would still die in the end
//edit: i think
in HN everyones a blessed hyb... with apu strenght spells :p
i think he means, 3 people VS 20 with a PPU is unblanced, 3 people VS WITHOUT a ppu, they sorta have a chance
yeah, that's what i'm saying.
In hacknet, everyone is more or less equal (yes i know we can have different hack skills). No one has better imps than another. No one has better armour than another. No one can use a "surprise" weapon.
It's purely down to your PvP skill with setup only having a small part to play.
@Jester - I don't suggest for a minute that 3 ppl fight 20, i mean that 3 ppl can hold off a clan of 20 (with 18 of them twiddling their thumbs at the OP waiting for the CLAN> INFO: message that never comes) In other words, zerg the OP with as many apus, ppu, rhinos, heavy firepower as u wish, but they can't do shit about the final layer. It's this final layer that i am suggesting brings some "balance" to an OP fight. Giving both clans an equal chance. If they don't want to be killed at the hacknet zone line, bring more hackers (or more skill). It's as simple as that.
Jesterthegreat
06-03-05, 17:46
If they don't want to be killed at the hacknet zone line, bring more hackers (or more skill). It's as simple as that.
lmao...
no it isnt.
3 hackers can kill anyone before they even sync in. by the time they can move... they are dead. its pathetic. the most poorly implemented thing i have seen in a long time.
theres 3 things that happen... niether of which are fun or hard.
1. defenders camp the zoneline and kill anyone in sync.
2. hackers get a quick sync... and run straight for the button. by the time he appears on the defenders screen hes already pushing the button.
3. hacker had already logged out at the button.
Hacknet ruins Op wars, clans wont go and try to take Ops, because they dont have enough hackers.
Does KK think Ops are only for hacking? What about the fighting éh?
KK think about this again! And remove this crap! NC1 opwars were lotta better and more fun!
I agree.
However I'm sure you agree that this thread started very recently
OP fights - Hacknet (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=123336)
could probably be a better place to say it ;) Not that I'm a mod or anything, in fact, I'm supposed to be working on my damn IT project and the deadline is tomorrow! :o
Agree, OP wars are crap in NC2 tbh, waste of time levelin a fighting char if you dont even get a fight at an OP cos all they need to do is go into hack net, Hack Net > Tanks
what u mean with merged? i tryed to use english online traductor , but still dont understand.
wait for help . thx
N3v3rM0r3
2 threads merged into 1 thread :lol:
Who came up with the idea to add this hacknet to ops anyways'? :confused: :mad:
what u mean with merged? i tryed to use english online traductor , but still dont understand.
Merged = participio passato di unire
:angel:
Notorious Fish
10-03-05, 23:01
Merged = participio passato di unire
:angel:
Yes what he said... whatever that is
Jesterthegreat
11-03-05, 14:24
Yes what he said... whatever that is
theres an angel head... its bound to be something silly :p
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