View Full Version : Suggestion to KK - rework ammo-cloning (pretty darn crucial)
Heavyporker
01-03-05, 01:37
I've been thinking about this a while...
It makes no sense that someone with a cruddy tool and a pittance of recycle skill can create the high-energy ammos... stuff that if were improperly made, would in effect incinerate anyone in close proximity to the ammo canister.
I propose that only low-tech ammunition can be cloned... and that ammo parts be bought back and required in the making of high-tech ammunition (laser, plasma, raygun, fusion, freezer). Of course, I'm aware that this could create some... inconvience on the part of... ahem... fighters... Maybe make it so that each BP of ammo can create ten to fifteen units of ammo for each build.
Not in favor. I'd be OK with raising the TL on some of the ammo, and maybe with decreasing the amount of ammo you get per pass, but ammo cloning solved a huge problem when it came in. Before ammo cloning, you could only fight in the Wastelands for a pathetically low amount of time before having to run to a GoGuardian or an ammo shop. Now, you only have to carry enough ammo to last until you'll have time to use a recycling tool.
I admit that it's insanely unrealistic, but so are lots of things in this game. This one's absolutely essential to playability.
Jesterthegreat
01-03-05, 02:54
one of the best things about leveling a nib is recycling... its cheap and you dont need an amazingsetup to do it.
i say no :p
Yeah, and make the game even MORE monk-o-cron.
Jesterthegreat
01-03-05, 02:59
make psi booster 2/3 unable to clone... and i'd agree with this :p
:edit: and make them wiegh something... monks would still dominate... but for shorter amounts oftime :p
Heavyporker
01-03-05, 04:56
I'm willing to concede the point of psi boosters needing to be non-clonable.
But then they'd need to have each bp come out in units of 10 packs, otherwise it gets very, very cumbersome.
Maybe make it so that each BP of ammo can create ten to fifteen units of ammo for each build.I guess that means you never built ammo. Ammo always built in 10 clip stacks.
ammo cloning solved a huge problem when it came in.What he said. Yeah, you could remove it or make it harder, but what's the point? Is there some sort of problem with having plentiful ammo?
THE_TICK!!!!
01-03-05, 07:00
I've been thinking about this a while...
... inconvience on the part of... ahem... fighters....very nasty comment...in general...porker..your downing the fighter class...and insinuating that they are lower that you in some way..very uncool...trader classes have there place and i think techaven helped out in a big way. But traders are just that ...neocron is customer based right now not retailer based. (till they get player shops in)...not just SINGLE player shop....DO not forget ...neocron is BASED on its pvp...NOT its tradeskillers...if everyone wanted to tradeskil they would go to SWG...OR WOW....thanks :)
I've been thinking about this a while...
It makes no sense that someone with a cruddy tool and a pittance of recycle skill can create the high-energy ammos... stuff that if were improperly made, would in effect incinerate anyone in close proximity to the ammo canister.
I propose that only low-tech ammunition can be cloned... and that ammo parts be bought back and required in the making of high-tech ammunition (laser, plasma, raygun, fusion, freezer). Of course, I'm aware that this could create some... inconvience on the part of... ahem... fighters... Maybe make it so that each BP of ammo can create ten to fifteen units of ammo for each build.
Think about the children ....
Since a low level plasma gun uses the same as a high level plasma gun, either KK have to re-work all the ammo for different levels, or you are going to penalise low level chars.
Im enouth rich on spy, tank and pe to buy 100 or 50 packs ammo :p But psi boosters are the big cash rip!! If i buy 100 psi booster 3 it costs 100k :( I need 1more part to DoY Recycle Eye, then i can save cash on psi boosters :D using psibooster 2 atm :p
I've been thinking about this a while...
It makes no sense that someone with a cruddy tool and a pittance of recycle skill can create the high-energy ammos... stuff that if were improperly made, would in effect incinerate anyone in close proximity to the ammo canister.
Well, if it was possible, maybe a chance of ammo not working properly, ie, mis-firing, blowing up in your face 8|.
Otherwise, I say leave it like it is.
Why? Because it's too easy to level up and needs to be made even more frustrating and annoying? What problem are you trying to solve?
Making psi boosters harder to clone would at least quarduple the time it takes to level up a monk in places like el farid or chaos caves because it's more or less impossible to have enough TRA skill to be able to bring enough psi boosters to clear the area.
Same thing with drivers and low level spies. Once again, what problem are you trying to solve? If you're bored, that's your problem, don't make it everyones problem.
Notorious Fish
02-03-05, 21:44
I've been thinking about this a while...
It makes no sense that someone with a cruddy tool and a pittance of recycle skill can create the high-energy ammos... stuff that if were improperly made, would in effect incinerate anyone in close proximity to the ammo canister.
I propose that only low-tech ammunition can be cloned... and that ammo parts be bought back and required in the making of high-tech ammunition (laser, plasma, raygun, fusion, freezer). Of course, I'm aware that this could create some... inconvience on the part of... ahem... fighters... Maybe make it so that each BP of ammo can create ten to fifteen units of ammo for each build.
I will slap you! You little role playing son of a beyotch! No cloning of CS ammo means I become more poor everyday i can easily go through 100 clips EASY liek not even think about it NOT TO MENTION DOOMIE AMMO WHICH IS HARDER TO CLONE TBH
btw is it just me or has every idea porkder comes up with REALLY bad?
Jesterthegreat
02-03-05, 22:14
if different TL weapons used diffeerent amo it could work, money sink for higher chars.
but its way too much hassle to do that anywyas :p
I will slap you! You little role playing son of a beyotch! No cloning of CS ammo means I become more poor everyday i can easily go through 100 clips EASY liek not even think about it NOT TO MENTION DOOMIE AMMO WHICH IS HARDER TO CLONE TBH
btw is it just me or has every idea porkder comes up with REALLY bad?
At Heavyporker's post: 100%, 5/5, *****. It's incredibly unrealistic and ammo could become big business- 10 creds a clip from Morph's Ammo Store! :)
At Fish: Let's remind ourselves what this game is. It's a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. MMORPG. Planetside is an MMOFPS. Sure, ammo is important, but it's not quite required at the point where you need 500 clips at all times...
Jesterthegreat
02-03-05, 22:39
At Heavyporker's post: 100%, 5/5, *****. It's incredibly unrealistic and ammo could become big business- 10 creds a clip from Morph's Ammo Store! :)
At Fish: Let's remind ourselves what this game is. It's a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. MMORPG. Planetside is an MMOFPS. Sure, ammo is important, but it's not quite required at the point where you need 500 clips at all times...
lets remember that although capped chars need a good time sink... noobs dont.
it may be an RPG... but its still a game.
simply making it pure RP is no good if theres no fun.
nd almost all the junk in the game is used purely for ammo / booster making. removing this means 90% of mob loot is effectively worthless
I buy all my ammo from the shop so this would not effect me
Notorious Fish
02-03-05, 23:07
At Heavyporker's post: 100%, 5/5, *****. It's incredibly unrealistic and ammo could become big business- 10 creds a clip from Morph's Ammo Store! :)
At Fish: Let's remind ourselves what this game is. It's a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. MMORPG. Planetside is an MMOFPS. Sure, ammo is important, but it's not quite required at the point where you need 500 clips at all times...
Dont play a tank much do you Morph. I got through ammo like a fat woman goes through a all you can eat buffet.
500 clips might last me 4 days maybe
Oh and let us remind ourselves that people you take RPGs too seriously end up killing them fucking selves because they lost an item, or play for 96 hours straight :)
good idea, maybe let us just recycle standart ammo. all special stuff must be consted. (means basic plasma ammo can recycled, heat must consted)
*****
btw im in to the idea psi booster3 can be consted or buy only
Notorious Fish
02-03-05, 23:22
Mark my words if this ever gets implented, the only save place porker can go HQs.... and subways... i will be the first person to get x249 of persons dog tag and if someone has already done that ill do it x498.. :) See look at me i go through ammo like a mad man
Mark my words if this ever gets implented, the only save place porker can go HQs.... and subways... i will be the first person to get x249 of persons dog tag and if someone has already done that ill do it x498.. :) See look at me i go through ammo like a mad man
My first ever char was a H-C tank, still is my main :) been playing since Beta4 NC1 :p . I know how much tanks eat ammo. I know exactly how much effort it would take me to buy ammo: Bugger all. But it gives tradeskillers another occupation, and doesn't really affect PvP or PvM at all.... just load up from ammo from your favourite vendor or whoever's in TH, and ride out ^_^
Notorious Fish
02-03-05, 23:48
My first ever char was a H-C tank, still is my main :) been playing since Beta4 NC1 :p . I know how much tanks eat ammo. I know exactly how much effort it would take me to buy ammo: Bugger all. But it gives tradeskillers another occupation, and doesn't really affect PvP or PvM at all.... just load up from ammo from your favourite vendor or whoever's in TH, and ride out ^_^
You have enough room in your gogo to carry 500 clips of 5 different kinds of ammo AND armor AND guns AND other useful things? I dont.
Ok this is the worst idea I have seen. On my spy I can use up to 400 clips of ammo a day (if I am pvping for the better part of the day that is). If I couldnt clone ammo it would be so fucking stupid to even play that guy becuase I would go flat broke trying to buy ammo.
Heavyporker
03-03-05, 02:03
I said that you could STILL clone low tech ammo ( the straight projectiles and the liquids (bullets and gasoline, to put it blunty).
It's the plasma, raygun, laser, and fusion, and freezer ammo that needs consideration. I mean, seriously, think about it.
This in no way "cripples" anyone. And yes, ammo did use to come out at 10 clips a bp. maybe we can up it to 20 clips a bp, which would make it much less onerous on people, including noobs.
And how about this for an idea... maybe techno mobs can drop complete units of ammo? Like warbots can drop laser ammo, DoY warrriors can drop raygun ammo, and ceres mutants can drop rocket ammo?
Jesterthegreat
03-03-05, 02:39
theres so much actually wrong with the game atm...
if its not broke dont fix it (for now at least)
Toilet-Duck
03-03-05, 03:25
theres so much actually wrong with the game atm...
if its not broke dont fix it (for now at least)
Ditto :rolleyes:
And how about this for an idea...
What problem are you trying to solve?
MeWhiteWolf
03-03-05, 13:25
theres so much actually wrong with the game atm...
if its not broke dont fix it (for now at least)
this about sums it up for me too.
Notorious Fish
03-03-05, 15:52
theres so much actually wrong with the game atm...
if its not broke dont fix it (for now at least)
Its ok man its still beta :angel:
What problem are you trying to solve?
the problem of getting things stuffed up your ass for free.
noob traders have nothin to do, parts are ingame for nothin and highlevels get stuff to easy. come on i know it would be hard to make my VHC ammo is not possible to recycle but it wont hurt that much.
go to a gogo or take a noob conster with you that carryes a few ammo parts.
if its not broke dont fix it
like it was the end of the world when anti poison sanktum was removed ?
it depend on the point of few. for a few ppl its broken.
This in no way "cripples" anyone.Except tech pistol/rifle users who use laser weapons...
noob traders have nothin to doHow does this help "noob traders" ? By indoctrinating them into the world of no-player shops from the get-go?
with ppl blocking every step to a game where they have to depend on other ppl in other things them fighting, NC never becomes a living world.
€: players are so lazy here, you see it everytime when kk announce somethin on the forum that makes them to work a little harder. they allways act like its the end of the world.
the problem of getting things stuffed up your ass for free.
noob traders have nothin to do, parts are ingame for nothin and highlevels get stuff to easy.
Right.. The next argument will be to remove ammo from shops. Or raise the price becuase the poor tradeskillers can't sell anything.
Highlevels can afford buying their ammo at shops. Noobs would be screwed. Leveling would take quarduple time and that's assuming that you only level at times when server population is high enough that you only spend an hour spamming TRADE when you run out of ammo. Highlevels can stockpile several cabinets full of ammo.
Please tell me how to clear out scorpion cave with an apu if you can't recycle boosters.
...Please tell me how to clear out scorpion cave with an apu if you can't recycle boosters.
like in te days where it was impossible to clone stuff ??
and yes mod ammo should go to a limited number of sellers.
at least make more recycle more usefull on clone.(not recycleskill=ammo TL much ammo, recycle>ammo more ammo but Skill=TL less ammo.)
Digital-Talios
04-03-05, 13:54
I would have to say no to outlawing high tl ammos. It is of great convience to leave it in.
Jesterthegreat
04-03-05, 14:42
Highlevels can afford buying their ammo at shops. Noobs would be screwed.
exactly.
with 1 clip of heat compressed i can kill a warbot, thats 2 k, thats what...another 3 clips, thats 6k, thats another 9 clips i can but, and on and on...
where i agree on RP terms, you cant just make everything ultra realistic and the cost of gameplay and fun...
Heavyporker
04-03-05, 16:24
oh, and about so called powerleveling...
you do know that monks do regain psi mana over time?
When you run out of psi boosters as a monk, you aren't *that* screwed.
(this is in a powerleveling context, not PvP, where it's completely different. One can rather safely assume that if one has leveled to the point where he can partake in OP fighting, a few boosters here and there isn't gonna worry HIM.)
edit: oh, and mkvenner, isn't just about ALL types of ammo only 250nc to 350nc a clip from stores? So you take down a warbot, that's like 10 to 15 clips right there. Unless, of course, you have to gr to the store every warbot. heh.
Notorious Fish
04-03-05, 17:18
oh, and about so called powerleveling...
you do know that monks do regain psi mana over time?
When you run out of psi boosters as a monk, you aren't *that* screwed.
(this is in a powerleveling context, not PvP, where it's completely different. One can rather safely assume that if one has leveled to the point where he can partake in OP fighting, a few boosters here and there isn't gonna worry HIM.)
edit: oh, and mkvenner, isn't just about ALL types of ammo only 250nc to 350nc a clip from stores? So you take down a warbot, that's like 10 to 15 clips right there. Unless, of course, you have to gr to the store every warbot. heh.
Fuck it man LETS GO FOR ultra realism... HARDCORE MODE ID Diablo 2!!! From Now on if your character DIES he is Fucked you may never log on him again. EVER.. REALISM FTW.....
Fuck it man LETS GO FOR ultra realism... HARDCORE MODE ID Diablo 2!!! From Now on if your character DIES he is Fucked you may never log on him again. EVER.. REALISM FTW.....
Man it's too early to for you to be spaming this much.
edit: oh, and mkvenner, isn't just about ALL types of ammo only 250nc to 350nc a clip from stores? So you take down a warbot, that's like 10 to 15 clips right there. Unless, of course, you have to gr to the store every warbot. heh.
maybe, i dunno, what im saying is, that the only people who would suffer would be noobs who really are noobs, i can still buy enough ammo on one guy, to power level the crap out of another one...
Well I wouldnt be THAT pissed becuase I use armor part 10s for cloning and I can just sell them to a store (with a barter) for 11-12 k each and then I can just buy the ammo I need then.
Notorious Fish
04-03-05, 18:13
Man it's too early to for you to be spaming this much.
What are you talking about Im at work on a Friday :)
So you take down a warbot, that's like 10 to 15 clips right there.What kind of POS weapon are you using? Even on my lame constuctor/researcher/rifle spy, I can take down a warbot in less than three clips of laser ammo in a Healing Light. Pain Easer might be four clips (two reloads per clip). I go out hunting with 10 to 14 clips of Laser Rifle ammo and can usually finish off four or five Warbots before having to clone up more ammo.
Maybe the 120/120 stuff needs 10 to 15 clips (20 to 30 reloads), but not Warbots at rares level. Even at Prototype Tangent Rifle level, it only takes four or five clips...
Heavyporker
04-03-05, 20:47
I mean the cash reward FROM a warbot in ammo cost terms, icestorm.
That makes more sense, but the problem with your reasoning is that people don't have carry weight to cart around 50 to 100 clips of ammo. Without cloning, I'd have to GR back and forth all the time or hunt in a zone with a GG, unless on my constructor Spy.
Recycling is not just about saving money, it's about not being tethered to a GG. Prior to recycling, I didn't carry large quantites of ammo but I did carry the parts needed to make the ammo since they were significantly lighter. Not everyone has that option.
Heavyporker
05-03-05, 23:01
There's vehicles if you want to be unburdened by a gogo. And honestly, there's still the fucking low tech ammo if you want to clutch that damn recycle tool of yours in that bony fist of yours.
Jesterthegreat
05-03-05, 23:12
man...
if you cant take critasism dont post ideas.
the majority dont like the idea.
There's vehicles if you want to be unburdened by a gogo.That doesn't help when one wants to go hunting underground, or wants to not have to return a vehicle to a garage, or when the vehicles STOP WORKING like they did a few patches ago for me. It's also a dangerous practice to rely on a vehicle when one is overloaded.
And honestly, there's still the fucking low tech ammoI'm a tech rifle user. Why should I be forced to use a Pain Easer when I have a Healing Light? Do you have some sort of bias against Spies or tech heavy weapons Tanks?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.