View Full Version : Simple punishment for allied killers
Obsidian X
14-02-05, 15:32
Probably said before, but I feel its necessary to repeat.
Ally killers, regardless of FS, are safe behind their clan tags. Run some missions with your resser buddy, and noones any the wiser. The solution?
Unclanned Runners: Get crappy faction sympathy, and you're booted from the faction. Never to return. You're regarded as a traitor to that faction, and their faction guards will KOs you. If possible, you will now appear red to all members of that faction (Each faction could have a wanted list, like the NCPD). So you move to another faction. Maybe to make it a bit more fair, your name eventually fades from the factions wanted list. Move somewhere else and try again. IF you continue with alied killing, you'll eventually be blacklisted and relegated to the Anarchy Breed, which won't be fun and RP oriented, but enemy to all with item drops instead of belt drops, no epic, no clans, no HQ. Don't like it? Don't kill allies.
Clanned Runners: Same as above, except you automatically get booted from the clan. You can rejoin, but theres a twist. Each clan has an allowance (5 or maybe 10 in the interest of fairness) "reputation points". Each time you kil an ally, you get a point. Get 5 (or 10 points) and your clan is dissolved. Items in the cabinets, clan funds, and the clan appy, are lost forever. Clan reputation points eventually return to 0 over a gradual time period. (much like SL, only longer), and they can only do so when members of the clan are online.
Should the clan be dissolved, the clan leader is stripped of his "master" title, and can no longer found a clan.
What do the non-ally killers think of this solution?
Simple, realistic and just good :)
5 stars.
see absolutely no problem with it! ;)
Dribble Joy
14-02-05, 15:48
No to the AB thing, they are not a 'red to all' faction.
As I say time and again, remove SL, base everything a runner does on sympathy.
Guard reaction, vendors, area access, GR movement.
Clanned runners should be subject to becoming factionless (and be booted from the clan as a result).
Factionless runners should be able to form clans though.
Jesterthegreat
14-02-05, 15:49
simplerway would be to move them to anarchy breed...
theres no HQ for missions, they are red to everyone... and i would personally move there by choice.
i kinda like it, bit on the harsh side....so good :p
Obsidian X
14-02-05, 16:05
i kinda like it, bit on the harsh side....so good :p
Harsh reprecussions are the only way to solve problems like these ;)
@DJ: It doesn't make a difference to me whether its Anarchy Breed or factionless; as long as theres a dumping ground for the runners who have been blacklisted I'm happy.
Also if you like the idea, please rate this thread.
Thanks :D
again .... and again ....
and again ..... again ....... and ..... again and ..... again ....
u want a punishement for ppl who choose their own enemies and friends, for independent ppl ?
this is so poor ... get ur .. "ally killer" on a city - kos list or whatever ... but stop whining about ppl who are bored of getting ruled by the f6...
and btw, if someone calls me an allykiller its just laughable for me ... coz i have no allies.
Obsidian X
14-02-05, 16:16
again .... and again ....
and again ..... again ....... and ..... again and ..... again ....
u want a punishement for ppl who choose their own enemies and friends, for independent ppl ?
this is so poor ... get ur .. "ally killer" on on city - kos list or whatever ... but stop whining about ppl who are bored of getting ruled by the f6...
I wasn't really expecting an intelligent post from someone who's just declared himself and his buddies a law onto themselves in the RP forum. :rolleyes:
Anyone else?
/edit: I really wouldn't have a problem with people choosing their own enemies and thinking outside the F6 box. However I've yet to see anyone partake in such a practice responsibly and maturely. To paraphrase:
I don't follow F6 rules, [insert clan name] choose our own enemies, based on past grudges, history, or people we don't like. Don't tell us how to play this game.
Translation: We kill everyone, for no good reason, because we can.
Therefore I believe measures like this are necesary.
again .... and again ....
and again ..... again ....... and ..... again and ..... again ....
u want a punishement for ppl who choose their own enemies and friends, for independent ppl ?
this is so poor ... get ur .. "ally killer" on on city - kos list or whatever ... but stop whining about ppl who are bored of getting ruled by the f6...
and btw, if someone calls me an allykiller its just laughable for me ... coz i have no allies.
when you create your carater, you choose a faction, so you choose to serve it.
You do not like it ? don't play this game, this is the Neocron Rules. Ally killing is not a way of life, it's a game possibility. Yes you can do it but in that case assume the consequence.
Imagine you kill your workmate "because i can do it", do you really think that yor company will keep you as an employee ? C'mon.
landofcake
14-02-05, 16:18
Great idea.
Could perhaps be seen as harsh but that's what is needed. This game is NOT designed to be 'kill who you want, it doesn't matter about faction', regardless of what some people think.
Dribble Joy
14-02-05, 16:20
again .... and again ....
and again ..... again ....... and ..... again and ..... again ....
u want a punishement for ppl who choose their own enemies and friends, for independent ppl ?
this is so poor ... get ur .. "ally killer" on on city - kos list or whatever ... but stop whining about ppl who are bored of getting ruled by the f6...
Because f6 is the factions. It represents how the factions would and do interact and view each other.
Why are you in the faction to start with if you don't agree with it's standings?
Act independant and make your own enemies/allies all you want, got for it, but this isn't about that.
You cannot expect the faction you are in to continue to employ you if you go against what it is.
Example; A policeman decides to live by his rules and doesn't like traffic wardens, so he goes around hitting them with a cricket bat.
Does the police accept that he makes his own rules and that's just fine?
No, he gets kicked out of the police.
Do what you want, I don't want to stop you. But you have to be able to face the consequences.
I don't want to play the RPing 'lamer', but fuck it. For fucks sake this IS and rpg, it IS. You 'live' in a world, you interact with people and your actions incur reactions and results.
edit//
when you create your carater, you choose a faction, so you choose to serve it.
You do not like it ? don't play this game, this is the Neocron Rules. Ally killing is not a way of life, it's a game possibility. Yes you can do it but in that case assume the consequence.
Imagine you kill your workmate "because i can do it", do you really think that yor company will keep you as an employee ? C'mon.
STAY OUT OF MY HEAD!!!
Jesterthegreat
14-02-05, 16:23
everyone says "you must" or "you cannot" an awful lot...
simple fact is thats not the case.
you may want us to. kk may want us to. but until they declare ally killing an offense we dont have to follow F6.
:edit:
Example; A policeman decides to live by his rules and doesn't like traffic wardens, so he goes around hitting them with a cricket bat.
Does the police accept that he makes his own rules and that's just fine?
No, he gets kicked out of the police.
people kick him out... people punish him...
Obsidian X
14-02-05, 16:25
you may want us to. kk may want us to. but until they declare ally killing an offense we dont have to follow F6.
We all realise that, if you choose not to follow F6 thats fine, but expect harsh penalties for not doing so, thats all we're saying.
Because f6 is the factions. It represents how the factions would and do interact and view each other.
Why are you in the faction to start with if you don't agree with it's standings?
the f6 shows the faction releationships, when nc started... not how it has to be.
Act independant and make your own enemies/allies all you want, got for it, but this isn't about that.
You cannot expect the faction you are in to continue to employ you if you go against what it is.
and do not expect that. i'm kos to like 90% of the city ... and ?
Example; A policeman decides to live by his rules and doesn't like traffic wardens, so he goes around hitting them with a cricket bat.
Does the police accept that he makes his own rules and that's just fine?
No, he gets kicked out of the police.
crappy example. there is noone in nc who can tell me what to do and what not do .. if theres someone (the police) who tells u (the officer) what to and u takes order, its up to u. but u dont have to.
Do what you want, I don't want to stop you. But you have to be able to face the consequences.
i do. i have - sl all the time, everyones attacking me, if i get kicked from the clan, i'll be factionless.
i can and i live with the consequences.
I don't want to play the RPing 'lamer', but fuck it. For fucks sake this IS and rpg, it IS. You 'live' in a world, you interact with people and your actions incur reactions and results.
yep... result : i'm kos, loosing sl all the time...
Obsidian X
14-02-05, 16:32
yep... result : i'm kos, loosing sl all the time...
Losing SL is not an acceptable concequence while you can run a few missions and be done with it. Or in general in fact. Hence the problem.
Losing SL is not an acceptable concequence while you can run a few missions and be done with it. Or in general in fact. Hence the problem.
sure .. if u fight in the middle of p1 and get -17 sl ...
i already lost camo pa, 3 slot ultimated cs n other rare stuff becoz of this ...
and its not acceptable ? maybe for u, that doesnt mean, kk has to change anything.
Ozambabbaz
14-02-05, 16:36
cool idea
also more faction guards needs spawnage at zone points and at GRs
Obsidian X
14-02-05, 16:39
sure .. if u fight in the middle of p1 and get -17 sl ...
i already lost camo pa, 3 slot ultimated cs n other rare stuff becoz of this ...
and its not acceptable ? maybe for u, that doesnt mean, kk has to change anything.
Not really, I'm 95% sure you and you're ally ganking buddies all have millions in the bank, rares up the ying-yang and plenty of other stuff to replace the shit you might drop in your belt. I mean imps aren't even dropping now, so no I don't believe for one minute that its an acceptable concequence for people like yourself; if it was I'm sure you'd think twice about killing allies.
crappy example. there is noone in nc who can tell me what to do and what not do .. if theres someone (the police) who tells u (the officer) what to and u takes order, its up to u. but u dont have to.
And if you do not take order, you're fired, that's simple, no ?
Not really, I'm 95% sure you and you're ally ganking buddies all have millions in the bank, rares up the ying-yang and plenty of other stuff to replace the shit you might drop in your belt. I mean imps aren't even dropping now, so no I don't believe for one minute that its an acceptable concequence for people like yourself; if it was I'm sure you'd think twice about killing allies.
well ... i have 500 k ... no mission bps ... have to use 1 slot slasher with crappy stats ... shitty healight light ... if i lose my pe pa i'll loose all my money ...
u think i have plenty of rares n shit ? u think ? laughable
and fuck shit, i have no goddamn allies ! so i dont gank any allies ...
ulthaza, there is noone who can order me to do something ... and just becoz everyones whining about the bad bad ugly allypker kk dont have to change a shit.
our pe pk clan is kos to 90 % of the city, we're getting attacked everywhere, everyone is trying to kill us, this is an acceptable consequence..
Hmm theory falls over in a couple of places like
Crahn Epic requires a TS Kill, You ill the TS you cool, TS fightsback and kills you he gets rep points taken ?????
I had 100 SL a couple of weeks back with my dronner, Worked hard for them too .... then I Launch a drone and see 2 Anti Cities taking on Red PPU / Hybrid guy (Pro city).....
I shoot lots, hit Hybrid lots but hit both tanks at leaset once as one was melee and the other using close combat (CS)....
So Hybrid kills them both eventually and I am sitting with -10 SL, no cause I was PKING but cause I was being agressive to the PPU and a few stray bullets....
Now on your theory, why should I loose fact rep cause I was role playing for my Faction .....
everyone who kills 5 allied runners gets their char deleted. Simple.
Dribble Joy
14-02-05, 16:49
The idea is not to stop anyone continuing to do what they do. That's just wrong.
Just to make one's actions have consquences that would happen. In this case, acting outside, even against, your factions orders and ideals.
SL is just a bad solution.
Clannless runners allready get kicked from their faction with enough symp loss, as should happen. Applying this to clanned runners is a simple step that should be done.
The idea is not to stop anyone continuing to do what they do. That's just wrong.
Just to make one's actions have consquences that would happen. In this case, acting outside, even against, your factions orders and ideals.
if i would get kicked from my faction if i keep killing my enemies, it would stop me.
punish me for killing my enemies !!!
SL is just a bad solution.
ur opinion.
Obsidian X
14-02-05, 16:52
well ... i have 500 k ... no mission bps ... have to use 1 slot slasher with crappy stats ... shitty healight light ... if i lose my pe pa i'll loose all my money ...
u think i have plenty of rares n shit ? u think ? laughable
and fuck shit, i have no goddamn allies ! so i dont gank any allies ...
ulthaza, there is noone who can order me to do something ... and just becoz everyones whining about the bad bad ugly allypker kk dont have to change a shit.
our pe pk clan is kos to 90 % of the city, we're getting attacked everywhere, everyone is trying to kill us, this is an acceptable consequence..
Face it Mr Cryton, you know damn well that 90% of the city isn't going to engage you.
I can see you like playing the "bad guy" and so you speak out about ideas that might hamper you from doing so.
The original purpose of this thread was my idea to harshly punish ally killers. A lot of people like my idea; you don't as it will affect your ability to shoot allies in the back while they're hunting. Well thats fine, but sooner or later KK are going to have to implement some harsher form of punishment for ally killing so you'd best enjoy it while you can, and get used to the idea that it won't continue like this forever. If nothing else its in KK's business interests; they earn more money from your average person, than the "I'm such a tough lone renegade, I have no allies, I'm so dark and dangerous, pheer me" person like yourself.
Edit:
@Crest: The Crahn Epic is merely a semantic that can be fixed; it shouldn't be tied in any way to the NC1 faction system at all. As for things like the drone bug, that would need fixing, as would clan wars, to completely tie up any discrepancies of this whole system.
if i want some1 booted from a faction..
i attack him, i let myself get kicked, now THAT person gets booted from his faction...
WWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEE thats what we want innit ?
idea sux
Obsidian X
14-02-05, 16:59
if i want some1 booted from a faction..
i attack him, i let myself get kicked, now THAT person gets booted from his faction...
WWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEE thats what we want innit ?
idea sux
You wouldn't get kicked for killing one ally. At least E. Cryton attempts to defend his whole stance on ally killing. And you don't like my idea becuase it would mean the dissolution of you're immature little clan full of e-Penii mongering deviants.
*sigh* Well my ideas out there, this thread can only go down from here. Can I get a close please mods?
I like this idea because allied killing is just rediculious. It seems they do it simply because they're too lazy and scared to attack enemies on their home ground, so they go after anyone closest to them. Harsher measures are needed and it'd also be nice if the damn copbots and guards actually did something :lol: :rolleyes:
This does however, bring up the problem of unintentional allied kills. Friendly fire if you will. During large battles it's no uncommon for stray shots to hit an ally, and if they die you are penalized to the full extent of their death, even if you did 1/100th of the damage to them. Granted teaming together solves this problem, but not everyone wants to team or are even allowed to do so especially in very impromptu battles. O_o
ice, is phaze/soldierz/dow 90 % of the city ? ok, maybe 80 ...
ibsidian, all u want is to punish ppl who might kill u if u dont expect them to.
and WE DONT KILL ANY ALLIES; WE DONT HAVE ANY
not a bad idea,
personally im for the perma red status for pkers who kill to many allies but hey thats just me
Jester brought up an interesting point. "People" do something about criminals in the real world.
In many cases in NC allied killers become well-known relatively fast, they seem to have a tendency to boast about their deeds. It is then up to the players to bring this case in front of the city's governing body, whatever that may be on the individual servers. This body should review the case and if the player is found guilty of allied killing, give him a warning. Should he continue killing allies, the city council should declare him an outlaw. These rulings can be published in the appropriate forums. Other players who aid and abet the outlaw, be it a clan harboring him, an imper poking him, or a conster building him a weapon, should be fined. This should all make it exceedingly harder for allied PKers to go about their doings.
On Mars, the NC City Council once did declare a whole clan of allied killers as outlaw. This solved the problem. In general though, actions like this need a functioning player-led governing body, as well as wide-spread solidarity among the players of an Alliance. Both are sadly hard to come by.
As long as players have a chance to solve the problems by themselves, I would be reluctant to see KK implement a mechanism to compensate for the 'failures' of the community. What I like about NC is its openness and many possibilities. Taking away these freedoms may not be the right path to take.
Nevertheless, I would also like to see the SL system reworked (or removed). Faction sympathy must play a bigger role.
You wouldn't get kicked for killing one ally. At least E. Cryton attempts to defend his whole stance on ally killing. And you don't like my idea becuase it would mean the dissolution of you're immature little clan full of
e-Penii mongering deviants.
*sigh* Well my ideas out there, this thread can only go down from here. Can I get a close please mods?
Thats their trick mate , they spam Allied killing threads to the point no one reads them.
Allied killers have their ideas, mainly a select few, we all know who
e-Penii mongering deviants :D
The other 99% of the pop wants something done not necessarily to stop, but punish effectively. that way they can continue if they like but with more punishment than a mission cube.
Hell just do a search on allied kill , it's discussed more than anything!
we all know KK are aware of the situation and we would like something done, however the responses forthcoming on a serious discussion are non existent. :mad:
Jester brought up an interesting point. "People" do something about criminals in the real world.
In many cases in NC allied killers become well-known relatively fast, they seem to have a tendency to boast about their deeds. It is then up to the players to bring this case in front of the city's governing body, whatever that may be on the individual servers. This body should review the case and if the player is found guilty of allied killing, give him a warning. Should he continue killing allies, the city council should declare him an outlaw. These rulings can be published in the appropriate forums. Other players who aid and abet the outlaw, be it a clan harboring him, an imper poking him, or a conster building him a weapon, should be fined. This should all make it exceedingly harder for allied PKers to go about their doings.
On Mars, the NC City Council once did declare a whole clan of allied killers as outlaw. This solved the problem. In general though, actions like this need a functioning player-led governing body, as well as wide-spread solidarity among the players of an Alliance. Both are sadly hard to come by.
As long as players have a chance to solve the problems by themselves, I would be reluctant to see KK implement a mechanism to compensate for the 'failures' of the community. What I like about NC is its openness and many possibilities. Taking away these freedoms may not be the right path to take.
Nevertheless, I would also like to see the SL system reworked (or removed). Faction sympathy must play a bigger role.
I wrote a whole dea in NC1 of how, not only should Pkers be dealt with through the Council, but the council should be able alliance with factions of their choice...So if CA and TG had a common goal, then possible they creat and alliance to work together. If the Faction members dont like, they vote a new council .... so it becomes a try polical arena
This is a little more complicated that NCAT would like it to be (probably). As its not only about a certain clan killing some afk tradeskiller on plaza 1 and then boasting about it for half a day on all possible channels and then 3 days more on NC forums.
Its about allied pkers in general. There is a SL/FS loss issue here (usually, way much important to defender than to pk attacker), there is an "disruption factor" (good guy is very likely to be accused of allied pk when defending/killing bad guys) and there is an inability to fight back the pkers as they are always hide at HQ and restore their SL/FS.
On the other side, people usually dont like to fight back - that's true - but pkers are of the same breed, they just kill some tradeskiller and run back to HQ. Not much anyone can do about it.
Surely, you can try to fight back, wait for them, gank them. But they will do the same, they will hide, wait untill they find u alone, without ppu and then attack with a 5 people team... Then hide again. Its a closed circle. You can try to fight back and track them on the half empty streets of neocron...
...or u can just go DoY and kill them as reds, without all this hassle.
Doy awaits you.
Jesterthegreat
14-02-05, 18:53
The idea is not to stop anyone continuing to do what they do. That's just wrong.
Just to make one's actions have consquences that would happen. In this case, acting outside, even against, your factions orders and ideals.
indead... RP consiquenses is the answer... not ingame limitations.
:edit:
JIn many cases in NC allied killers become well-known relatively fast, they seem to have a tendency to boast about their deeds.
run a search on the ally killing threads... see how many are made by us "boasting" and how many are us defending ourselves from whiners...
Tidus_Origin
14-02-05, 19:02
Killing allies just for the sake of it should have some sort of consequence or punishment, instead of the easily-rectifiable SL/symp hit that applies now.
But then again, people do want to go from pro-city to anti-city sometimes, and they need some way to do it.
As with all these 'punish-the-ally-killer' topics, there's a good side and a bad side. But that's unavoidable. And its up to KK how they deal with it, if they actually choose to.
But thats my opinion. Quote/flame about it if it makes you feel better.
run a search on the ally killing threads... see how many are made by us "boasting" and how many are us defending ourselves from whiners...
I'm just as much bothered by the whiners as with the allied PKers (in game and out). I personally don't much mind being shot in the back, killed while hacking a Warbot, when someone ganks me after some mobs have almost killed me, or being shot in the face by someone I expect to be friendly, because he is green. I usually don't even fight back. I just pick myself up and continue on. I don't even care if they show off my 75/66 dogtag to their friends, to brag about how great they are. I won't dignify such behavior by a coherent reaction.
What does make me mad though, is that these people rob me of the opportunity of engaging in a good and fair fight. I love a good fight, man against man, to the death. Doesn't really matter to me who wins, the fight itself is so exhilarating. As Eric rightly put it, these are "ppl who might kill u if u dont expect them to". Expecting a fair fight from these cowards is illusory.
Superb and Extordinary! :D
Jesterthegreat
14-02-05, 19:44
I'm just as much bothered by the whiners as with the allied PKers (in game and out). I personally don't much mind being shot in the back, killed while hacking a Warbot, when someone ganks me after some mobs have almost killed me, or being shot in the face by someone I expect to be friendly, because he is green. I usually don't even fight back. I just pick myself up and continue on. I don't even care if they show off my 75/66 dogtag to their friends, to brag about how great they are. I won't dignify such behavior by a coherent reaction.
What does make me mad though, is that these people rob me of the opportunity of engaging in a good and fair fight. I love a good fight, man against man, to the death. Doesn't really matter to me who wins, the fight itself is so exhilarating. As Eric rightly put it, these are "ppl who might kill u if u dont expect them to". Expecting a fair fight from these cowards is illusory.
over the last few days i must have had 80-100 duels in neofrag...
i love fair fights.
over the last few days i must have had 80-100 duels in neofrag...
i love fair fights.
not fair....i swear that bloke on your head was anti-healing me :p
that's my excuse and im sticking to it
Probably said before, but I feel its necessary to repeat.
Ally killers, regardless of FS, are safe behind their clan tags. Run some missions with your resser buddy, and noones any the wiser. The solution?
Unclanned Runners: Get crappy faction sympathy, and you're booted from the faction. Never to return. You're regarded as a traitor to that faction, and their faction guards will KOs you. If possible, you will now appear red to all members of that faction (Each faction could have a wanted list, like the NCPD). So you move to another faction. Maybe to make it a bit more fair, your name eventually fades from the factions wanted list. Move somewhere else and try again. IF you continue with alied killing, you'll eventually be blacklisted and relegated to the Anarchy Breed, which won't be fun and RP oriented, but enemy to all with item drops instead of belt drops, no epic, no clans, no HQ. Don't like it? Don't kill allies.
Clanned Runners: Same as above, except you automatically get booted from the clan. You can rejoin, but theres a twist. Each clan has an allowance (5 or maybe 10 in the interest of fairness) "reputation points". Each time you kil an ally, you get a point. Get 5 (or 10 points) and your clan is dissolved. Items in the cabinets, clan funds, and the clan appy, are lost forever. Clan reputation points eventually return to 0 over a gradual time period. (much like SL, only longer), and they can only do so when members of the clan are online.
Should the clan be dissolved, the clan leader is stripped of his "master" title, and can no longer found a clan.
What do the non-ally killers think of this solution?
Five fucking big ass stars!!! *****
Probably said before, but I feel its necessary to repeat.
Yeah i said something about an allied LE but not an implant (thus it doesnt take up any slots) and it's mandatory. Basically you cannot harm an allie, due to the way of Reza lol Sounds better no? No more being ganged when your talking in plaza, no more runners with green faction attacking you cos all their alts are red.
Although your solution is good it doesnt STOP allied killing it just puts a pinch on anyone doing it, and as you may have guessed, they don't really care they will attack and kill you anyway, and just do what it takes to get their faction symp or whatever back. Sad but true, as posted on UP's offical forum who have now vowed not to follow F6. Because they should be factionless no one wants allied killers.
Jesterthegreat
14-02-05, 22:24
Yeah i said something about an allied LE but not an implant (thus it doesnt take up any slots) and it's mandatory. Basically you cannot harm an allie, due to the way of Reza lol Sounds better no? No more being ganged when your talking in plaza, no more runners with green faction attacking you cos all their alts are red.
Although your solution is good it doesnt STOP allied killing it just puts a pinch on anyone doing it, and as you may have guessed, they don't really care they will attack and kill you anyway, and just do what it takes to get their faction symp or whatever back. Sad but true, as posted on UP's offical forum who have now vowed not to follow F6. Because they should be factionless no one wants allied killers.
restricting actions is not good for an mmorpg.
adding differentconsiquences is.
Heavyporker
14-02-05, 22:46
While I do really like this idea....
I have problems with this, guys...
- What about someone that gets pissed at their clan/clan leader and decides to royally fuck the clan by pking a few innocents in Plaza/ DoY sector?
- As said before, what about Epics that requires ally-killing?
- Soullight needs to be kept - It's NCPD information, *PLUS* it adds a depth to Neocron that's hard to beat. Neocron City is a city struggling to rise from apocalypse, to create a real civilization. Crime is rampant, and the NCPD needs a way to rate people based on their actions to others in case their law enforcement officers aren't present to deliver justice immediately.
I have a solution, though.. make soullight only apply to Neocron City citizens...
DoYs and CMs would have no SL to speak of... basically, like perma -5 SL where copbots and SL-interested NPC-actions (Jailhouse, as an example) are concerned.
What do you think?
over the last few days i must have had 80-100 duels in neofrag...
i love fair fights.
that was sooo much fun :)
Jesterthegreat
15-02-05, 00:08
I have a solution, though.. make soullight only apply to Neocron City citizens...
DoYs and CMs would have no SL to speak of... basically, like perma -5 SL where copbots and SL-interested NPC-actions (Jailhouse, as an example) are concerned.
What do you think?
i think pro city losing a safeslot ad dropping 5+ items and DoY never getting this is a stupid imbalance...
i can see what you mean with the idea... but it wouldnt really change anything other than DoY's able to ally kill and not risk losin safeslot / dropping loads. (they also couldnt get hard to hack belts)
Bozz-Von Mel
15-02-05, 06:46
again .... and again ....
and again ..... again ....... and ..... again and ..... again ....
u want a punishement for ppl who choose their own enemies and friends, for independent ppl ?
this is so poor ... get ur .. "ally killer" on a city - kos list or whatever ... but stop whining about ppl who are bored of getting ruled by the f6...
and btw, if someone calls me an allykiller its just laughable for me ... coz i have no allies.
I think there is good reason to "whine". F6 was designed to bring some kind of order to the game. Imagine a football game in which players decided to play by different rules and got away with it. Just like trying to play the game when both teams are wearing the same green shirts. Makes the game hardly worth playing/watching. That is EXACTLY what is happening here. Sure you can get away with it, but it is ruining the integrity of the game. It is also making the game alot less enjoyable. Some people have decided for whatever reason that they are somehow "above" the rest of the community. This is the primary reason some kind of control measures need to be implemented.
Bozz-Von Mel
15-02-05, 07:06
indead... RP consiquenses is the answer... not ingame limitations.
RP Consequences would be great, but it is way to EASY to escape those consequences. In fact, most are indifferent to the consequences so why bother since they are ineffective. Copbots and such serve very little purpose. The NCPD wanted list and clan wars are a step in the right direction but are not working right.
When player A decides to play by one rule. (F6) Then player B decides "I have no allies", it creates a severe imbalance. City Mercs "have no allies" that would not be a bad faction for someone choosing to have "no allies". The community is simply asking that the "have no allies" group play by the same rules as everyone else. This makes the game much more predictable and enjoyable.
PS: Sorry for double post, tried to delete. Guess I cant.
Probably said before, but I feel its necessary to repeat.
Ally killers, regardless of FS, are safe behind their clan tags. Run some missions with your resser buddy, and noones any the wiser. The solution?
>>>>>>
What do the non-ally killers think of this solution?
:) good solution all round,
lets face it if you want to RP and not be ruled by the F6 window then fine >>BE ANARCHY BREED OR FACTIONLESS<<. simple if you want to RP as pick your own allies and be a traitor to your faction then others should be able to RP as your a traitor to the faction. its no different from RP as clanless, you want to run with no clan and choose who you hunt with its fine you have just chosen to do without a clan hq and clan funds and allies, same applies for a faction killer, if you choose to run without faction allies you choose not to have the protection of there allies and theye can kill you when you attack them.
remove the entire SL system, remove enemies/friends/neutrals. Optimize faction story background, invent a special bonus for every faction, let ppl choose their friends and enemies on their own instead of pressing them into this F6 cage.
remove the entire SL system, remove enemies/friends/neutrals. Optimize faction story background, invent a special bonus for every faction, let ppl choose their friends and enemies on their own instead of pressing them into this F6 cage.
sounds like someone just wants no consequence for killing people
over the last few days i must have had 80-100 duels in neofrag...
i love fair fights.
Seems to me you only love them, when you are in no danger of coming to harm.
The discussion is fruitless. If the game enables people to role-play immoral cowards, then we others should be thankful for the diversity they add to the game.
You can suggest as many ways to do things as possible but in the end your not closing the most well known exploit in the game.
When you have negative SL, you can hide in the HQ safezone till you've run enough research missions to get back to positive SL .... this takes roughly 10-30 minutes.
Faction guards only shoot enemy factions, what needs to be changed is that faction guards need to kill negative SL as well. Simple, make guards act like copbots within HQs, so no more hiding and running off research missions. As soon as there's a negative SL person in a HQ guards open fire ... they can't do research missions and must hide out in their apartments for a very very long time.
Booting people from factions and clans only works if you remove the whole idea of soul light. But since soul light is here to stay ..... this is the most simplest and quickest solution to implement.
Heavyporker
15-02-05, 16:26
Weazle, you're right..
but Faction Guards shouldn't shoot based on SL.
I think copbots should be stationed in the Neocron City Faction HQs...
This'd truly add an atmosphere of CityAdmin's nearly omni-present power and authority in Neocron City.
That plus Copbots get parashock removed and damage doubled. The faction guards can keep their nerfa-power.
Obsidian X
15-02-05, 16:32
That plus Copbots get parashock removed and damage doubled. The faction guards can keep their nerfa-power.
Faction guards damage hasn't been nerfed at all since NC1 as far as I know. I was in the Protopharm lab and I ganked a proto NPC; the faction guards stationed in there blew me away in seconds. The only prob weith faction guards is that they're idiots; it takes them ages to react to an enemy runner in their HQ and whatnot; if at all.
Heavyporker
15-02-05, 17:13
Oh, yeah, thats right - I forgot their apparent blindness to enemy runners.
Fuck.
That needs fixing. Immediately.
Scaramanga
15-02-05, 20:17
Only a fucking idiot would play an RP game and not RP.
[Edit] .....and you can quote me on that.
sounds like someone just wants no consequence for killing people
there will always be consequences for killing people. Its not like I can run around, shoot somebody and hes not able to shoot back, call friends or something like that. But the consequences should be up to the players and not to stupid rules.
but end of you kill the guy it would change nothing to you, you have suffered nothing from killing the innocent passerby.
to use a similar RL incident/prediciment
say i attack someone, they can defend themselves, however if i beat them to a pulp the police are going to want a word with me, i get a record and my job would soon be taken away from me.
there are consquences to the action, then simply fighting back is neither here nor there imo
there will always be consequences for killing people. Its not like I can run around, shoot somebody and hes not able to shoot back, call friends or something like that. But the consequences should be up to the players and not to stupid rules.
yes, but the problem starts when people team up, shoot the tradeskiller in the back, then rush into the HQ before the cavalry arrives. Then they sit there and recover SL/FS while boasting on trade.
That is how stupid rules allows them to avoid the player based consequences. And THAT is the problem
I dont think anyone creates a team just to kill a single afk tradeguy somewhere in the city. Create something like a .. militia to defend urself against random pks and stop annoying KK with stuff which will cause more trouble than solving problems.
I dont think anyone creates a team just to kill a single afk tradeguy somewhere in the city.
You would be surprised...
Create something like a .. militia to defend urself against random pks and stop annoying KK with stuff which will cause more trouble than solving problems.
Did u read my post? I have stated what the problem is - pkers hide in safezones from the so-called militia. They keep regaining SL and FS and getting exp and no one can harm them there.
Copbots wont shoot them, faction guards neither, players cant shoot them as well. Cant u see the problem here?
Come to think of it, its the usual safezone issue though. Just as in NC1, its basically the same as with pepper park/p3 border. People just come outside to gank and then hide in HQ. And no one can do anything about it.
Summary: safezone is an exploit... ;)
Great idea, Obsidian.
5 stars.
Though I have to say that Genty's idea about char deletion should be incorporated in there too :D (maybe with a public execution thrown in for good measure. :P)
Only a fucking idiot would play an RP game and not RP.
Quote of the year for me so far ;)
About soul-light; IMO research and construct missions should only give faction sympathy and no SL boost what so ever. The only thing that should raise SL should be delivery missions and kill mob missions, that way people get a fair chance at revenge when the runner with red SL is running around outside doing their missions.
Jesterthegreat
15-02-05, 22:01
Seems to me you only love them, when you are in no danger of coming to harm.
The discussion is fruitless. If the game enables people to role-play immoral cowards, then we others should be thankful for the diversity they add to the game.
first people tell me aslly killing is all about egos or epenis size... then when i say i fight fair and dont care who knows the result... you bitch cos im doing it?
whiners have a serious fucking attitude problem. you have decided who you want to hate and nothing they say is ever good enough. this was shown when we attempted peace... another clan broke it... so we killed them. this of course led to anarchy yet again.
grow the fuck up.
RP Consequences would be great, but it is way to EASY to escape those consequences.
i didnt say the current consiquences were how it should be.
SL system is fine, consequences are fine, RP is fine, anarchy is fine, pie is fine.
what are we complaining about?
oh thats right.. some1 got killed and now hes whining on the forums, AS FUCKING USUAL
Jesterthegreat
16-02-05, 00:27
oh thats right.. some1 got killed and now hes whining on the forums, AS FUCKING USUAL
you see...
since we have all but given up posting bugs here...
all but given up expecting info here...
all thats left for these forums is a whine fest.
all thats left for these forums is a whine fest.
whiners?
here?
NEVAR
Jesterthegreat
16-02-05, 00:36
whiners?
here?
NEVAR
irc is left with about 3 people that still play nc...
the forum is left with ... well... not many people who dont whine constantly about people hey die to or things they arent good enough to do.
people need to get a fucking grip and grow up.
stop whining about ally killers, just kill them. farm their belts. destroy their moral. do anything but whine.
irc is left with about 3 people that still play nc... and thats pushing it a bit
me, and sometimes you and cosmo (landofcake) are on there :p
oh and DF and QD....ish
Jesterthegreat
16-02-05, 00:47
and thats pushing it a bit
me, and sometimes you and cosmo (landofcake) are on there :p
oh and DF and QD....ish
landofcake posted somewhere that he rarely logs on anymore...
i was under the same impression with QD (though i dont know his names in NC2)
so...
me and DFthen? :p
me and DFthen? :p
and me
dont forget me
ME ME ME
god im bored....
I know this is a little off topic, but I'd still like to address it.
you see...
since we have all but given up posting bugs here...
This I've noticed more and more lately. I've been having to spend more and more time ingame, and on the forums trying to track issues down then I used to have to.
As for e-mails to bugreports@neocron.com? I spend more time clearing spam outta there then actually reading a bugreport. *Goes and checks the current queue on it* Currently the Bugreport queue has 31 tickets. *clears junk mail* 1 real bug report, thats more or less just to let us know that one of the dynamic fix npc's I created isn't working atm. In the past month theres been maybe a dozen real tickets, and most are just character issues like "I lost my whatever, i want it back" which really belong in the helpdesk@neocron.com cue.
The bug report section of the forums found here? http://forum.neocron.com/forumdisplay.php?f=100 2 posts in the past 30 days.
If the bugs are a real issue for you, and you want them to be taken care of, the best way for people to help us with that issue is to let us know in either the bugreport forum or the above e-mail address. The easier it is for us to find the bug's the faster (hopefully) we can fix them. Posting them in the Community Talk forums just causes more work as we have to sift through alot more threads to find them. I have to read just about every post made these days since I usually find more bugs in posts about something completely non-related to the bug it's self then anywhere else.
Jesterthegreat
16-02-05, 01:10
If the bugs are a real issue for you, and you want them to be taken care of, the best way for people to help us with that issue is to let us know in either the bugreport forum or the above e-mail address. The easier it is for us to find the bug's the faster (hopefully) we can fix them. Posting them in the Community Talk forums just causes more work as we have to sift through alot more threads to find them. I have to read just about every post made these days since I usually find more bugs in posts about something completely non-related to the bug it's self then anywhere else.
should i go there and say i got a silly gree man on my head? :D
tbh for the first year or so i reported bugs... after that it got old. i was paying to do exactly the same amount of testing i did when i was in the closed beta's.
:edit: and i still say the bugreport section shouldnt be hidden in the test server section...
1. theres currently no testserver
2. if there is people may think thats the forum for test server bugs
:edit2:
the section called " Test Server Feedback" doesnt make you think "oh lets post out retail bugs there"
should i go there and say i got a silly gree man on my head? :D
tbh for the first year or so i reported bugs... after that it got old. i was paying to do exactly the same amount of testing i did when i was in the closed beta's.
:edit: and i still say the bugreport section shouldnt be hidden in the test server section...
1. theres currently no testserver
2. if there is people may think thats the forum for test server bugs
:edit2:
the section called " Test Server Feedback" doesnt make you think "oh lets post out retail bugs there"Greenman on your head.. no need, I was ingame at the time it started.
I can understand the confusion with the Test Server forum heading, I'll see if I can get that renamed for now.
Also, you can use the ingame bugtracker, I check that frequently as well.
:edit2:
the section called " Test Server Feedback" doesnt make you think "oh lets post out retail bugs there"
Yes which is also under the "Public Bugtracker" main heading :)
Jesterthegreat
16-02-05, 01:23
I can understand the confusion with the Test Server forum heading, I'll see if I can get that renamed for now. thanks
Also, you can use the ingame bugtracker, I check that frequently as well. i tend to only use that to report exploits, in the hopse a GM will read it and come check it out... but they tend to take so long the exploiters are gone / finished by then.
Yes which is also under the "Public Bugtracker" main heading :)
the full heading is:
Official Neocron Forum > Public Bug Tracker > Test Server Feedback > Retail Bug Tracker
you have to go into the "test server feedback" section to find the "retail bug tracker section"...
I gave up after seeing all the bugs reported repeatedly in NC1 only to show up in NC2 retail.
Sorry, but reporting bugs around here is like beating a dead horse. :(
BTW, the reason I'm in here now is because I can't log in without either being stuck in sync, or not stuck in sync, but have no stats or inventory and half a gogo. :rolleyes:
Asurmen Spec Op
16-02-05, 03:14
Five fucking big ass stars!!! ***** fucking agreed mr seven fucking agreed
E. Cryton, it was expected you attitude atleast to the forum pooster
and
yes RP penalties > ingame
PS jester heres news
the RPG is before FPS
MMORPGFPS
Jesterthegreat
16-02-05, 04:02
fucking agreed mr seven fucking agreed
E. Cryton, it was expected you attitude atleast to the forum pooster
and
yes RP penalties > ingame
PS jester heres news
the RPG is before FPS
MMORPGFPS
heres news... blindly following rules doesnt make you more of a roleplayer than someone who has a mind of his own...
Theres so many things rong with this i dont know where to start,
about the clan rule, it suxs, what if (for example) a guy from a nme clan makes a n00b joins yours and kills 20 allies, then the clan gets fucked in the ass cos of some twat trying to mess up the game for other people and then you have big problems.
But the solo runner rule sounds good, maybe with a little work yes, but atm i cant give this more than 1 star.
But anyway whats the point of this post cos the devs wont even look at it twice :p
Original monk
16-02-05, 13:39
But anyway whats the point of this post cos the devs wont even look at it twice :p
well ya would be suprised to see how much they do read i think, its there game after all :P
remember a post about the sixt stat ?? a day maybe 2 days later there was a patch and the sixt stat was gone lol ..
this also happend with hybridtanks and regular hybrids in the past ... someone posts a certain story or setup and BAM
ya would be suprised how much this forum influences the game :)
well ya would be suprised to see how much they do read i think, its there game after all :P
remember a post about the sixt stat ?? a day maybe 2 days later there was a patch and the sixt stat was gone lol ..
this also happend with hybridtanks and regular hybrids in the past ... someone posts a certain story or setup and BAM
ya would be suprised how much this forum influences the game :)
Well Then DEV!
SORT SL AND RID US OF ALLIED GANKERS !
in fact one quick easy patch to sort allied ganking........
.....just rid us of NCAT/UPS :D
99% solved :angel:
Original monk
16-02-05, 14:05
Well Then DEV!
SORT SL AND RID US OF ALLIED GANKERS !
in fact one quick easy patch to sort allied ganking........
.....just rid us of NCAT/UPS :D
99% solved :angel:
im sure one would of read this by now :) and its my guess they dont interfere with ingame stuff like clan A does this or clan B does that :)
but the more you talk about the alliedganking, the more chance there is that the system will be changed yes .. but at the same time youre providing a forum for the alliedgankers emself .. with other words you give em attention and thats the only thing there after ffcourse :)
well ya would be suprised to see how much they do read i think, its there game after all :P
remember a post about the sixt stat ?? a day maybe 2 days later there was a patch and the sixt stat was gone lol ..
this also happend with hybridtanks and regular hybrids in the past ... someone posts a certain story or setup and BAM
ya would be suprised how much this forum influences the game :)
lol the only thing they read and sort out its bugs that makes NC worth playing, i havent seen a single brainport be added into the game, if im rong plz tell me what has but from the start of NC1 its been pointless postin new ideas cos they will NEVER add them :rolleyes:
They should just bring back the bounty system, then anyone who has bad SL or has killed allies gets added to that, the bounty would be claimable by anyone of any faction.
Obsidian X
16-02-05, 14:49
grrrrr :mad:
This should have been closed ages ago, appreciate all the support from people who like my idea, and yet the usual suspects are spamming with the usual "stfu whiner" bullshit.
Close please.
Original monk
16-02-05, 15:40
lol the only thing they read and sort out its bugs that makes NC worth playing, i havent seen a single brainport be added into the game, if im rong plz tell me what has but from the start of NC1 its been pointless postin new ideas cos they will NEVER add them :rolleyes:
yust of myself i got a nice example :)
you seen my 4 itempolls ?? i think half of that shit is ingame now lol
about 40-50 idea's for new guns, mobs, goodies etc ...
2 bad that 3/4 most important polls got wiped with the wipe of the old part of the forum :/ i would be happy to show em to you cause you wouldnt believe anyway when i told you :)
they where called: THA POLL 1 to 4, had about 10 idea's each and where posted about 2 years or longer ago when only a few rares existed :)
edit: i found poll number 4 again, but again this wasnt a good one, tha poll 1 to 3 where the win and lots of idea's found there way in the game ... one of the idea's for example in poll 1-3 was a hi-tl rifle that looked like the healing light but had an intermitting beam like the drones had in that time ... and tadaa ! few months later the disruptor arrives :P
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=70898&highlight=poll
tbh i would like to read my own 4 polls again, i forgot most things and would like to read em again :) it took me some time togheter with angeldust to come up with sumtimes crazy idea's :) 2 bad i cant acces the old part of the forum or 2 bad it got deleted :/
fucking agreed mr seven fucking agreed
E. Cryton, it was expected you attitude atleast to the forum pooster
and
yes RP penalties > ingame
PS jester heres news
the RPG is before FPS
MMORPGFPS
massivly multiplayer random player ganking frames per second ? sounds cool
The only thing they have done from your poll is take the cop bots out of PP1 but then they put the TS gards in there and now its full of CA gards so really it hasnt got better its got worse :wtf:
So Original if you can name 10 good* things that they have added that a player on the forum made a brainport about before* they added it i will eat my hat (its quite big :lol: )
:p
Original monk
16-02-05, 17:29
The only thing they have done from your poll is take the cop bots out of PP1 but then they put the TS gards in there and now its full of CA gards so really it hasnt got better its got worse :wtf:
So Original if you can name 10 good* things that they have added that a player on the forum made a brainport about before* they added it i will eat my hat (its quite big :lol: )
:p
told ya i could only find the shitpoll and not the other 3 :/ they deleted all previous polls when the forum moved or got renewed, i would like to see em back also btw :)
when i would of get the chance to read em again its time for you to eat youre nice big hat :) want some ketchup with that ? :D
2 bad i gotta go home in a few minutes, im sure i could find 10 random idea's of players that where introduced ingame :)
edit: woops this is getting slightly OT tough :P but it does remind me i should make a THA POLL 5, gotta talk angeldust about it :)
Asurmen Spec Op
16-02-05, 23:50
massivly multiplayer random player ganking frames per second ? sounds cool wtf pie?
Jesterthegreat
17-02-05, 01:47
Well Then DEV!
SORT SL AND RID US OF ALLIED GANKERS !
in fact one quick easy patch to sort allied ganking........
.....just rid us of NCAT/UPS :D
99% solved :angel:
rid us of whiners... 100% solved...
oh and eric... FPS = First Person Shooter in this context :p
rid us of whiners... 100% solved...
i hear napalm is good for that
sawn-offs as well
Jesterthegreat
17-02-05, 02:34
i hear napalm is good for that
sawn-offs as well
if KK wakes up and starts banning for the naming and shaming (thats against forum rules) then the majority will be banned anyway :D
Asurmen Spec Op
17-02-05, 02:37
if KK wakes up and starts banning for the naming and shaming (thats against forum rules) then the majority will be banned anyway :D same with people who grief play(Im not implying anyone just saying)
Jesterthegreat
17-02-05, 02:40
same with people who grief play(Im not implying anyone just saying)
if they do it will change nothing for us...
since dev's have stated ally killing is no offense...
and since dev's / GM's have stated that its not griefing to repeatedly kill someone... so long as they choose to come back (IE if you camped their only apt it would be griefing)
Asurmen Spec Op
17-02-05, 02:44
if they do it will change nothing for us...
since dev's have stated ally killing is no offense...
and since dev's / GM's have stated that its not griefing to repeatedly kill someone... so long as they choose to come back (IE if you camped their only apt it would be griefing) I said I wasnt aiming at you dude
and ya know in AB thers a small chance theyd be clans, a gang is to organized for a anarcistic group
Jesterthegreat
17-02-05, 02:47
I said I wasnt aiming at you dude
and ya know in AB thers a small chance theyd be clans, a gang is to organized for a anarcistic group
a point i have said many times... however though it was considered in the closed beta KK decided against including AB as a playable faction.
:edit:
technically Anarchy Breed Clan is a oxymoron...
however if you think more like a wasteland gang (Mad Max? Waterworld? that kinda thing) it all works out easier :p
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