View Full Version : I'm shocked how many high level's have LE.
I came back to Neocron2 on my friend acc for a couple days as he is on vacation and am SHOCKED on how many people at high levels have their le in. In neocron1 you took your le out once you were able to protect yourself and that was that. What has these people so scared? What happened that all these near caped people have their le's in? Am i missing something? I LOVE the pvp, but with so many people with their le in it's umm.. un normal. o_O
Alot has been happening most of this is to do with Allied Killing
And the fact the you can't go AFK in plaza or something.
Droner's keep LE's in for ages, as.. well they're droners.
Yes, in NC2 beta the ganking started, in NC2 people kept on ganking anyone, noobs, allies, whatever.
This led to loads of people keeping in their LE. And aboput 90% of the real noobs i`ve seen so far simply keep the LE in and don`t join a clan.
Sucks. SL system weeks need to start soon.
enigma_b17
04-02-05, 21:26
let me get this straight, first people were complaining that ppl were moaning about them getting killed, so were told "put an le in if u dont want to pvp", and now theres criticism bcause they do? what a world
Ch1n Th3 M4g
04-02-05, 21:34
Alot has been happening most of this is to do with Allied Killing
:rolleyes:
wonder whos been doing that
Clownst0pper
04-02-05, 21:36
Once again another bonus to my spy campaign!
Thats why spys own cos you can stealth away from those evil allied! :lol:
Every else cant! :D
let me get this straight, first people were complaining that ppl were moaning about them getting killed, so were told "put an le in if u dont want to pvp", and now theres criticism bcause they do? what a world
Nah it's more that people say to keep LE in as a noob and when they cap then they expect them to pop out the LE. I would like to see more non-led players but oh well :(.
let me get this straight, first people were complaining that ppl were moaning about them getting killed, so were told "put an le in if u dont want to pvp", and now theres criticism bcause they do? what a world
The LE is fine by me. I`m just pissed that cause o fall those allied gankers and noob pkers every new player now keeps the LE in.
Its too many people completely rejecting pvp cause of some fucktards abusing the SL system.
I changed my mind about the Le over the last time, i really think it should not work in warzones and fall out at a certain level like /50. If you dont want pvp, play something else.
Plaza 1 safe zone imo bring back the trade in NC ;)
The LE is fine by me. I`m just pissed that cause o fall those allied gankers and noob pkers every new player now keeps the LE in.
Its too many people completely rejecting pvp cause of some fucktards abusing the SL system.
I changed my mind about the Le over the last time, i really think it should not work in warzones and fall out at a certain level like /50. If you dont want pvp, play something else.
I would LOVE this. Also they need to make the LE not work in NF.
I would LOVE this. Also they need to make the LE not work in NF.
Afaik know it doesnt work in NF, but its somewhat buggy, i.e you dont get the target box but still can do damage or something like that.
On Pluto, not many high level chars had an LE. Even low to mid levellers had no LE at the MB bunker.
On Saturn, craploads of people had LE in while high level. Virtually everyone within a mile of the MB bunker had one.
Spot a pattern here?
I need to take a look on Mars sometime to compare.
In neocron1 you took your le out once you were able to protect yourself and that was that.
They will take their le's out when they can protect themselves.
It just takes a long time to work out how to protect your self from a city of hostiles (the reds) and a city (your city) full of allied killing clans. I wont mention names but taking your LE out in NC is asking to die, either from a spy or from an ally. Even capped players die alot, basically it goes a little like this;
Big Tough Clan: You got in our way *fires off some shots*
Guy Who Died: WTF was that for I never did anything to you!
Big Touch Clan: Do I care? what are you going to do? We have over 80 members.
Guy Who Died: FFS...
*The Next Day*
same thing happens maybe it's a different clan, or maybe it's just some random allied person or a red. But facts are facts and fact is you cant take on a clan which can log around 15 people to come and kick your arse.
Hope that awnsers your question,
In short: few people started to pk allies (tradeskiller, noobs at lvling places, afk's and so on) and ignoring enemies.
More people join the show later on. Everyone had great fun with destroying the game for the newcomers.
Other people reacted: popped their LE in and (or) moved to DoY (as it was NC isue mainly)
There is no cure for stupidity, never was.
i dont like the hassel of getting killed in crp caves while leveling so since nc2 started i have been keeping the les in my chars in till i cap the main skill. persionally i like going out to crp and ganking people but i can't take it when it happens to me that is y i leave it in.
persionally i like going out to crp and ganking people but i can't take it when it happens to me that is y i leave it in.
Well at least you're honest about it. :lol:
personaly, i think the situation is not only out of controll but also compleatly destructive to Neocron the game in terms of attracting new customers, and Role Play, their should always be a pvp system in place becasue pvp is good, but thats Player vs Player (Equal terms) not noob (small) vs capped/near-capped, thats NOT pvp thats just boredom personified by players that have nothing better to keep them entertained in the world of Neocron O_o .
Obsidian X
05-02-05, 01:19
My monk is currently /49 and still has his LE in. The reason is quite simple, I enjoy farming scorpions at El Farid; its great money and great exp without the worry of anyone else coming along and shooting me in the back. I'm probably gonna do this until I cap my PSI.
Sad fact is, its pretty unsafe to level in my favorite spots on Terra these days without an LE, so I'm quite comfortable having one char that can go and buy shit, and cave his little heart away without fear of being jumped by a gang of hormonal, pimply teenage CS kids with a Napoleon complex :p
And don't say "omfg you carebear, its PvP!11" - I have no problem walking down Pepper Park and getting jumped, that kind of thing happens. When people just wanna creep up behind me when I'm looting a mob and shoot me in the back, I don't consider it PvP, just senseless ganking. I'll fight anywhere I have to, but I resent doing it in a hunting zone, specifically designated for levelling, which is why it carries a SL penalty.
Bring on the SL theme week :rolleyes:
My monk is currently /49 and still has his LE in. The reason is quite simple, I enjoy farming scorpions at El Farid; its great money and great exp without the worry of anyone else coming along and shooting me in the back. I'm probably gonna do this until I cap my PSI.
Sad fact is, its pretty unsafe to level in my favorite spots on Terra these days without an LE, so I'm quite comfortable having one char that can go and buy shit, and cave his little heart away without fear of being jumped by a gang of hormonal, pimply teenage CS kids with a Napoleon complex :p
And don't say "omfg you carebear, its PvP!11" - I have no problem walking down Pepper Park and getting jumped, that kind of thing happens. When people just wanna creep up behind me when I'm looting a mob and shoot me in the back, I don't consider it PvP, just senseless ganking. I'll fight anywhere I have to, but I resent doing it in a hunting zone, specifically designated for levelling, which is why it carries a SL penalty.
Bring on the SL theme week :rolleyes:
too right, fact is i took the LE out my 2 shev new noob char (first noob iv made in ages) thinking this will be ok, no ones going to even want to PK a nib (whats the point). Never the less i was being shot at by another guy from my own faction in no less than 2 mins in Viarosso O_o (daft).
Later, im recycling some junk in a nutral Op (as me noob still 2 shevs) and a tank logs-in infront of me, kills me nib char that can do nothing but stand thier and take the CS like a MAN, of courst then the tank gose of and shoots up you nib vehicle O_o sweet :( , what ever ffs
high ranked doesent mean its ready for pvp
Yes, in NC2 beta the ganking started, in NC2 people kept on ganking anyone, noobs, allies, whatever.
This led to loads of people keeping in their LE. And aboput 90% of the real noobs i`ve seen so far simply keep the LE in and don`t join a clan.
Sucks. SL system weeks need to start soon.
Welcome to the NC2 sweeping statements. However in this case, the sweeping statement is so spot on.
The ganking started went somone decided to merge a 1 slot server with the 4 slot servers. So whats the bets on that the ex-Pluto players have to keep their LE's in?
Also whats the bets on that the ex-Pluto players are the gankers?
Finally, when did everyone decide to complain so much about the ganking?
Hard questions that either will be answered or not, considering the game rules have not change that much.
I need to take a look on Mars sometime to compare.
Mars == LE Heaven
Leveling at the Bunker for about 3 hours we had about ... hmmm, 15 Teams (PPU + DamageDealer) coming, killing every non-LEd and leaving again ... but we also had about 8 LE users leveling there ...
It`s just insane
On Pluto, not many high level chars had an LE. Even low to mid levellers had no LE at the MB bunker.
On Saturn, craploads of people had LE in while high level. Virtually everyone within a mile of the MB bunker had one.
Spot a pattern here?
I need to take a look on Mars sometime to compare.
On Saturn, you have to remember that because we had 4 or 5 times the population of Pluto at peak times that it will look like more people have LEs in as the ones who didn't were either OP warring or going on a pk fest somewhere. Therefore the only ones you say about were LE'd.
Also on Pluto, I bet you all asked each other if they wanted to fight, waited for the enemy to buff etc before fighting. Because I guess if you did just attack on sight you wouldn't see another person to PK for a good few hours.
Pluto clung too much to the F6 window, according to Saturn politics, F6 was just another button :D
On Saturn, you have to remember that because we had 4 or 5 times the population of Pluto at peak times that it will look like more people have LEs in as the ones who didn't were either OP warring or going on a pk fest somewhere. Therefore the only ones you say about were LE'd.
Also on Pluto, I bet you all asked each other if they wanted to fight, waited for the enemy to buff etc before fighting. Because I guess if you did just attack on sight you wouldn't see another person to PK for a good few hours.
Pluto clung too much to the F6 window, according to Saturn politics, F6 was just another button :D
Saturn didn't have 4 or 5 times the population. 2 or 3 times maybe.
And as you said. Pluto players respected the F6 window. By what you are saying Saturn players didn't respect the F6 window.
superfresh
05-02-05, 06:26
There's a side to the LE that no one has mentioned...
A bunch of people lost epic items when they switched over from NC1, or are otherwise interested in scraping some up from factions that are not in their preferred city. The complication for a lot of people is that they are playing a character that is not of their preferred faction. Personally, I don't think it's very classy to get in a scuffle with an "enemy" and have to explain that you are just doing epics. Nor is it cool, IMO, to attack an ally because you are only doing an epic from their faction which you are normally hostile to. I levelled my character and then cleaned up on the epics I wanted without hassle (took out LE immediately after capping and did a few epics in a matter of hours). Also met a lot of very cool people on the way, btw.
Now I have what I wanted, have capped my character, and have been spared all of the hazy political stuff involved when you are not in your preferred faction.
I'm shocked how many high level's have LE.
I'm not shocked at all, and if it weren't for the rank 30 rule, you would be seeing alot more with LE's until we get a proper SL system in place.
There are so many things that need be done and amongst them one of the most important is a complete rework/rethink of how LE works together with the SL system. It is really a pitty to see so many LE players, even I was forced to begin an LE char which never had before, but it is a necessity now more than ever to change a couple of things about LE. I would started a SL/LE themework right now...
This might be silly, but what if they just make it so you cant target allied people. Leave the le out. Take it out of the game and just have that "cant target allied fraction" code... is that silly or a good idea?
This might be silly, but what if they just make it so you cant target allied people. Leave the le out. Take it out of the game and just have that "cant target allied fraction" code... is that silly or a good idea?
I would somthing like that BUT there would be alot of probs like...
Runner needing rep:"Need a tl200 reper DM me!"
Fake reper:"Hey I rep tl 200 where you want to meet?"
Runner needing rep:"CA hq"
Fake reper:"Be right there"
Runner needing rep:"Ok i need all this armor and this gun reped"
Fake reper:"Ok just a min *logs off*"
Runner needing rep:"MOTHER FUCKER!"
With that system you couldn't kill him when you see him in a non safe zone.
Saturn was not that bad.. I always took my LE out before I had even left MC5. Yeah I got ganked a few times but not much.. But those were the days you could put ure LE back in. Instead of the XX/30 rank rule it should go on SL. So your LE coud not go back in unless u had say +30. Well looking at the missions u can do and how easy it is to get 90 sl in a safe zone I'd say more like 50-60. Then you could go out hunting in peace but then take out the LE to go pking but if u PK allieds then u got to get eh SL up...
Wot you think, it could just make poeple think twice about pking allieds?
(just came up with it... I'd like to see it tested like on terra and I dont think it will be a problem to code at all.. Maybe have a mission you have to do to get it back in and an npc pokes it in u. and the prices its depenedent on your lvl??)
Peace
Ess Enn
Saturn was not that bad.. I always took my LE out before I had even left MC5. Yeah I got ganked a few times but not much.. But those were the days you could put ure LE back in. Instead of the XX/30 rank rule it should go on SL. So your LE coud not go back in unless u had say +30. Well looking at the missions u can do and how easy it is to get 90 sl in a safe zone I'd say more like 50-60. Then you could go out hunting in peace but then take out the LE to go pking but if u PK allieds then u got to get eh SL up...
Wot you think, it could just make poeple think twice about pking allieds?
(just came up with it... I'd like to see it tested like on terra and I dont think it will be a problem to code at all.. Maybe have a mission you have to do to get it back in and an npc pokes it in u. and the prices its depenedent on your lvl??)
Peace
Ess Enn
Thats true. I always had my LE out as soon as I could level at MB, because if I got ganked I viewed it from the point of view that it was CON XP for me :lol:
Jesterthegreat
05-02-05, 23:16
I came back to Neocron2 on my friend acc for a couple days as he is on vacation and am SHOCKED on how many people at high levels have their le in. In neocron1 you took your le out once you were able to protect yourself and that was that. What has these people so scared? What happened that all these near caped people have their le's in? Am i missing something? I LOVE the pvp, but with so many people with their le in it's umm.. un normal. o_O
pussies :p
j/k i got no probs with LE'ers... as long as there are some un LE'd peeps :p
everyone's talking about ally killing ...
damn, i'm not allied with anyone, and noone is allied to me !
f6 ... who gives a shit about f6, like i said before, if u are not independet enough, to chose ur own enemies and friends, use f6 ...
Jesterthegreat
05-02-05, 23:33
everyone's talking about ally killing ...
damn, i'm not allied with anyone, and noone is allied to me !
f6 ... who gives a shit about f6, like i said before, if u are not independet enough, to chose ur own enemies and friends, use f6 ...
well said that man (again)
well said that man (again)
thank u very much :p
f6 suxx but theres no way to kill "realy" enemies without sl lost. that suxx
Also on Pluto, I bet you all asked each other if they wanted to fight, waited for the enemy to buff etc before fighting. Because I guess if you did just attack on sight you wouldn't see another person to PK for a good few hours.
Not true at all. I was shot in the back as many times as i saw the enemy coming. The point is, i was usually in an obscure location or enemy territory (like CRP). Known levelling spots like MB bunker / aggies / canyon caves were PK free about 80% of the time in my experience. I levelled alongside red factions without LEs. As for asking if i wanted to fight, well let's just say i talked myself out of the shit a couple of times when i saw an army of reds approaching. Quick thinking and a little bit of RP helps too. How many Tangents did you know of that could creep into Tech Haven for the first time and chat away to a gang of Fallen Angels without getting killed? (and no, they didn't know me)
Pluto clung too much to the F6 window, according to Saturn politics, F6 was just another button :D
Most of the time they did, and hey presto.. people were happy! There were no forum threads calling for changes to soullight etc.
Neutral PKing did exist. Allied PKing was more rare but still happened. It happened for a reason though - a reason that related to in game politics / role play / incidents and was usually resolved in the end.
In short, i found playing on Pluto less stressful than my time on Saturn and Terra. I got the impression of a mature community, whatever the RL ages. However......*points to sig*
Asurmen Spec Op
06-02-05, 21:44
everyone's talking about ally killing ...
damn, i'm not allied with anyone, and noone is allied to me !
f6 ... who gives a shit about f6, like i said before, if u are not independet enough, to chose ur own enemies and friends, use f6 ... some one hates athority
because ofcorse, if you dont RP it makes you cool
guess what Mr cryton weather you like it or not this is a RPG with FPS style of play.
NOT a fucking FPS.
We deal with the FPS and you have to deal with the RPG
and dont even try to justify what you do by RP
you wanna RP they way you are now. get kicked out of your faction and get alll FS to -100
there your RPing an Asshole, and will be treated that way
trigger hurt
06-02-05, 21:47
On Pluto, not many high level chars had an LE. Even low to mid levellers had no LE at the MB bunker.
On Saturn, craploads of people had LE in while high level. Virtually everyone within a mile of the MB bunker had one.
Spot a pattern here?
I need to take a look on Mars sometime to compare.
I pulled my le on mars after capping my psi on my spy. After that, it's pretty much been smooth sailing.
Lemme put it like this. Myself and a friend (he's biotech, I am twilight gaurdian) were out hunting warbots in I-10. Along come two more biotechs. Instead of them hoping out and ganking me, they stopped, had a chat and told us to have a good time and went on their merry way.
PvP is good on Mars. It's not stellar. On the other hand, you can go pretty much anywhere that isnt your enemies op or hq and not get ganked. The fun thing is, they expect you to not raid the city sometimes. People go afk in plaza 1 all the time loming, researching, whatever. Kill em and they'll swear at you. Fortunatly, it's in german so I don't understand it.
weather you like it or not this is a RPG with FPS style of play.
NOT a fucking FPS.
Damn right. There's always half life 2. A CPU doen't take things too personally.....or whine.
trigger hurt
06-02-05, 21:57
Neutral PKing did exist. Allied PKing was more rare but still happened. It happened for a reason though - a reason that related to in game politics / role play / incidents and was usually resolved in the end.
In short, i found playing on Pluto less stressful than my time on Saturn and Terra. I got the impression of a mature community, whatever the RL ages. However......*points to sig*
I just wish the idiots would stop relating the urge to mass pk to being a 13 year old. Get the fuck over yourselves. It fucking has nothing to do with age.
On the other hand, when I was on saturn, I was KoS'd by a clan because I wouldn't poke one of their members. I didn't even have implant skilled. Yeah...that's a great reason to kill someone. Pluto was no different than saturn. Saturn just had a higher population, so there were more asshats per capita.
I've been playing "that game we can't mention here". There are just as many pre-pubescent jerks there as there are here...probably even more...get this though. If someone kills allies, they're dealt with. They'll go broke and lose items and will either have to delete their char or pray they never die. It has nothing to do with maturity. They're name gets spread across the proper channels and noone will trade with them or buy from them.
Make people drop their armor and quickbelt when they die, then you'll see less ally ganking.
No one wants to PvP 24/7 so they need an LE char to chill out on
you dont need LE to chill out,you just need to not chill in pk hot spots ;)
i dont think the LE thing it to do with allied pking, more just pking in general, i know when i go the MB on my DRE tank, theres normally some enemy to fight, those guys at the bunker proberbly dont want there asses handed to them every time they go to do a missions so simple keep LE in.
however on the allied pking front, i dont see much off it, and if you do just take the names and kill those fuckers every chance you get, make sure others know and make sure they attack them when they see them.
as for the saturn pking thing, i can proberbly count the number of times i got allied killed(unprovoked that is)on one hand.
thats excluding when one of the BD clans i was in started fighting with TT, or when the other BD clan i was in were fighting the whole server lol.
and if people cast there mind back to early pluto there was as much allie pking going on there as there was later era saturn, or has everyone just conviniently forgoten such fact seeing as most of the pluto badboys either left game long ago or moved to saturn and continued there, now on terra you have an amalgamation of the bad from saturn pluto and uranus, so theres bound to be a larger allied pker element in the server.
tho i wish there was less le players, im getting sick of pulling my CS out as i run though the MB only to realise there le chipped(proberbly thinking omg noob pulled his CS on a le guy, you cant hurt me hahaha blah blah blah)
I just wish the idiots would stop relating the urge to mass pk to being a 13 year old. Get the fuck over yourselves. It fucking has nothing to do with age.
Did i say it was? Read the last paragraph of my post again and you'll see that i was disregarding the ages of people on Pluto, stating how mature i inferred the community to be. "Mature" meaning relatively advanced mentally or emotionally, not necessarily physically. The sig i was referring to did make a stereotypical reference so i apologise for the confusion.
you dont need LE to chill out,you just need to not chill in pk hot spots ;)
Well they are hot spots for a reason. People go there and get ganked but if you go there on a LEed person you don't get ganked.
Asurmen Spec Op
07-02-05, 00:23
No one wants to PvP 24/7 so they need an LE char to chill out on I disagree, if I need to chill after doing whatever I do on Asurmen(past few days has been loming SO HARD :P)
Ill get on my resser and trade rares, can never have to good of rares
lvl my other guys, cuz im to lazy to do it hardcore and cap em.
I dont have a LEd charecter I pull them out right in MC5.
I die oh noz!
I get free con
ffs its the only game the rewards you for dieing!
PS at Mr kott I belive thanks for agreeing
Jesterthegreat
07-02-05, 00:33
some one hates athority
because ofcorse, if you dont RP it makes you cool
guess what Mr cryton weather you like it or not this is a RPG with FPS style of play.
NOT a fucking FPS.
We deal with the FPS and you have to deal with the RPG
and dont even try to justify what you do by RP
you wanna RP they way you are now. get kicked out of your faction and get alll FS to -100
there your RPing an Asshole, and will be treated that way
know what?
if KK wanna move "ally killers" to anarchy breed, allow us to set up a clan there, and let us cotinue taking our OP's... im fine with that.
until that happens ill just deal with a little SL loss.
darknessfairy
07-02-05, 00:38
It may amaze alot of you, but the game CAN be played without involving pvp.
There should be tradeskill LE'd clans. Mob hunting LE'd clans.
Why should us so called "carebears" be discriminated because we chose not to participate in pvp?
The fact remains that as much as i would love to take my LE out, i cant for fear of being mindless ganked, by the stealthed sniper spy. (no direct link to anyone in particular, i was just generalizing)
And why do people whine so much because of people that keep their LE in? You don't see LE'd people whining because of people taking their LE out do you?
I will say this every time someone moans, whines about the game mechanics, IF you DO NOT like the way people play/KK run the game, then you can simple STOP PLAYING. Don't bore people with your nagging, You bunch of old women :p
I have no problem keeping my LE in to prevent getting ganked, so why are you all moaning? I didnt realise there was a set way to play the game :rollseyes:
Well they are hot spots for a reason. People go there and get ganked but if you go there on a LEed person you don't get ganked.
Sometimes I think people go there TO get ganked.
I mean cmon... use your brain - MB = Known hotspot. Plaza - Hotspot - Doy... pretty much hotspot....
erm..
The game - HOTSPOT.
The lesson learned - if ya take the LE out. YOU ARE GOING TO DIE EVENTUALLY FROM A PK. deal.
It may amaze alot of you, but the game CAN be played without involving pvp.
There should be tradeskill LE'd clans. Mob hunting LE'd clans.
Why should us so called "carebears" be discriminated because we chose not to participate in pvp?
The fact remains that as much as i would love to take my LE out, i cant for fear of being mindless ganked, by the stealthed sniper spy. (no direct link to anyone in particular, i was just generalizing)
And why do people whine so much because of people that keep their LE in? You don't see LE'd people whining because of people taking their LE out do you?
I will say this every time someone moans, whines about the game mechanics, IF you DO NOT like the way people play/KK run the game, then you can simple STOP PLAYING. Don't bore people with your nagging, You bunch of old women :p
I have no problem keeping my LE in to prevent getting ganked, so why are you all moaning? I didnt realise there was a set way to play the game :rollseyes:
Funily enough - agree with ya. Whats the deal with No LE for clan membership? it would save a lot of hassle for tradeskill clans.
Jesterthegreat
07-02-05, 02:01
It may amaze alot of you, but the game CAN be played without involving pvp.
There should be tradeskill LE'd clans. Mob hunting LE'd clans.
Why should us so called "carebears" be discriminated because we chose not to participate in pvp?
The fact remains that as much as i would love to take my LE out, i cant for fear of being mindless ganked, by the stealthed sniper spy. (no direct link to anyone in particular, i was just generalizing)
And why do people whine so much because of people that keep their LE in? You don't see LE'd people whining because of people taking their LE out do you?
I will say this every time someone moans, whines about the game mechanics, IF you DO NOT like the way people play/KK run the game, then you can simple STOP PLAYING. Don't bore people with your nagging, You bunch of old women :p
I have no problem keeping my LE in to prevent getting ganked, so why are you all moaning? I didnt realise there was a set way to play the game :rollseyes:
i have no problem with decent LE'ers.
all i have a problem with is the people who use LE and bitch / moan / whine / insult people.
an LE'er who uses an LE to play without PvP is fine by me. an LE'er who uses an LE as a perma safezone so they can bitch about other epople / clans is pathetic.
and ello... lon time no see :D
MB = Known hotspot. Plaza - Hotspot - Doy... pretty much hotspot....
I think you've got cause and effect reversed. People don't go there because they're PvP hotspots. They become PvP hotspots because people go there.
To you, the military base is something obviously worth fighting over that's equally accessable to both cities. To me, it's the only place in the game that has a vehicle garage, has an all-buyer and a gogo and a public genrep nearby, and spawns both cyclops launchers and warbots.
Same thing with CRP. Outdoor Canyon 3 is the perfect upper-mid-level leveling spot, because you can guarantee a steady supply of predictable rank 70ish mobs with nothing attacking you from behind; outside is an excellent pair of bunkers that you can usually lure a Grim Persecutor to; no all-buyer or vehicle garage, but at least it has a can't-be-locked genrep and a gogo. So of course it has a swarm of people. And since a lot of those people have reached the level where they had to take their LE out to get epic equipment that was appropriate to their level, at CRP (unlike the bunker in J_01) they're nearly all non-LE. What's more, because Cycrow's in the same zone, it's a war zone so it's a safe place to gank allies. There's always something going on at CRP because there are so many reasons to be there, not just because people are looking for a fight.
I hardly ever see anybody non-LE in Dome of York sector 03 any more, the Fallen Angels sector. It's got the only unguarded genrep in the whole Dome, so every stealth-whoring spy (and I say that even though I am one) uses it for raids. It's got the best collection of shops in the whole Dome, it's convenient to the HQ of the second largest faction in the Dome, and it's got some very popular low level hunting spots including some pretty good locked supply boxes handy, so frequently there are lots of people there. But just as at the Bunker, few or none of them have reached the level where there's an incentive to pull your LE chip out (especially since the FA epic is one of the carebear ones, thank Prime), so hardly any of them have yet.
Asurmen Spec Op
07-02-05, 02:45
i have no problem with decent LE'ers.
all i have a problem with is the people who use LE and bitch / moan / whine / insult people.
an LE'er who uses an LE to play without PvP is fine by me. an LE'er who uses an LE as a perma safezone so they can bitch about other epople / clans is pathetic.
and ello... lon time no see :D well you always use the "put your LE in" arugment so when they do so they can insult you for making them you get mad?
PS on the AB thing
just go no faction, why do you need a clan anyway? it just limits your targets
unless Mr jester needs a ppu....
Dr Strange
07-02-05, 03:45
no all-buyer or vehicle garage, but at least it has a can't-be-locked genrep and a gogo.
The gen-rep CAN be locked. Whoever owns Cycrow has control over the CRP genrep. Case in point if a pro city clan takes over Cycrow and shuts it down, us Anti City can't genrep into CRP (though most of us are smart and genrep to a sector or two next to it so as to not be ganked while we synch in).
Ask any of the current Cycrow controlers (whoever has it atm) to lock it down and then see if you can genrep in.
Heh yeah - CRP has NEVER been open to me. Kinda nnoying, really.
That said - I actually ahvent been able to genrep to any OPs, or CRP for over a month now.
Jesterthegreat
07-02-05, 05:10
well you always use the "put your LE in" arugment so when they do so they can insult you for making them you get mad?
PS on the AB thing
just go no faction, why do you need a clan anyway? it just limits your targets
unless Mr jester needs a ppu....
i say use le if you dont like pvp.
plz link me to a post be me saying "use LE if you wanna insult people and be invunerable to physical consiquences".
and Mr. Jester is in one of the few pro city clans that holds OP's.... i dont see how being unclanned would effect a ppu assisting me or not btw o_O
Asurmen Spec Op
07-02-05, 06:01
i say use le if you dont like pvp.
plz link me to a post be me saying "use LE if you wanna insult people and be invunerable to physical consiquences".
and Mr. Jester is in one of the few pro city clans that holds OP's.... i dont see how being unclanned would effect a ppu assisting me or not btw o_O No think but I cant really blame those who are told to "put your LE in" for assualting you.
and im saying why would you need a AB clan anyway? thats not very Anarchy like.....
Jesterthegreat
07-02-05, 06:07
No think but I cant really blame those who are told to "put your LE in" for assualting you.
and im saying why would you need a AB clan anyway? thats not very Anarchy like.....
yeah...
anti-conformist people never work together...
simply replace "clan" with "gang".
and why would you have a "clan" in a company like biotech? not very corperate to all break offinto your own little groups.....
Asurmen Spec Op
07-02-05, 06:09
yeah...
anti-conformist people never work together...
simply replace "clan" with "gang".
and why would you have a "clan" in a company like biotech? not very corperate to all break offinto your own little groups..... Why are you in PRO city?
Reza wouldnt like that kind of actions in his city.
but fuck, I can list a lot of things wrong
I much perfer game mechanic problems then community maturity problems the former is easier to fix then the later, without banning that is
Ninjano2002uk
07-02-05, 08:59
I just think all the ally Ganking peeps are [ Edited by Ninja as knew Nid wud edit that very harsh word *****]
end of, hence i left terra not long after i got my account again for Nc2 , as for Mars its not LE heaven its just 1 char server so that they cant log alts to kill allies hence everyone is a good boy, infact its just the english that started this mostly.. says sumthin dont it , the germans play this game far better in the respect to role playing. :wtf:
Nikabolokov
07-02-05, 13:38
In regards to the AB thing.
It would do a lot for the game if KK allowed players to move into it. Maybe not by choice but by actions. A certain level of -SL maybe, a certain number of allied kills in a row. But clans should NOT be allowed in AB.
In my opinion , AB would not have clans, as the whole of AB would in fact be a clan of sorts.
Bugs Gunny
07-02-05, 13:47
I wonder how many of the "leet" pkers would actualy go to AB if it's enemy to all, including the guards.
However, it wouldn't solve a single thing.
You'd still see AB running with pro-city ppu's to back them up and get their belts.
Rogue Arson
07-02-05, 13:52
I don't know why ppl worry about LE in players personally. I rarely even notice them now unless they speak. Its like 2 seperate communities that rarely intersect. You like your le? Keep it in. You wanna clan, or to hack belts, then you have to accept the risks that come with the benefits. LE keeps you safer, but can be isolating. Its a personal choice.
(this, of course, excludes those that exploit the LE'd status)
I don't know why ppl worry about LE in players personally. I rarely even notice them now unless they speak. Its like 2 seperate communities that rarely intersect. You like your le? Keep it in. You wanna clan, or to hack belts, then you have to accept the risks that come with the benefits. LE keeps you safer, but can be isolating. Its a personal choice.
(this, of course, excludes those that exploit the LE'd status)
I`ve had LEd people insult me, steal stuff from me, trade me in combat, spy at opwars, block ops with vehicles, drive/repair enemy rhinos, blocking caves by not leaving.
But thats not the problem, it`s not many who do this. I`m fine with the Le, it`s just that theres so many of em now. This game is about PvP. Completely. Having so many LEs just shows that the SL system is shit, as theres no real punishment for Pkers. Thats the whole problem. Less ally / noob ganking = more people without LEs. Everyone can deal with the occasional pker, but as it is now, no way. If i was new to this, i`d keep my LE in. Definately.
Though i think it should pop out at a certain level and it shouldnt work in warzones. o_O
Bugs Gunny
07-02-05, 15:22
That would be cool, if le's didn't work in warzones.
Meaning they can get killed but can't kill someone themselves. Kinda like the way neofrag works for them now.
A valid point about LE interactions. I don't speak to LEed players either. In my mind there are not there as their actions don't really impact my game play. (Bar the non-game like LE getting in the way at ops/ spying etc, which is not fair game play.)
Last night I ran round the city, getting killed alot. In the process I killed one 0/17 and almost shocked a 0/5 to death. Not that I intended to kill a 0/17 with my x/66 H-C tank, but I don't see the runners' rank numbers until I was standing right next to them, which means mistakes are made.
The 0/17 came back for his belt and I buffed him, along with the 0/6 - No harm done there. Free CON.
Wouldn't it be easier if we could simply see either their rank or stars n stripes from a fair distance? (Or, perhaps this is a problem with my screen resolution: 640x480 windowed?)
None of my chars are LEed, nor have they ever been LEed which, includes my CST/REP char and my Droner, and niether have been killed that often. Must have been lucky :)
Z.
PS. AB is a joinable faction on Pandore... It should be by invitation only and you should have to meet certain criteria.
Dribble Joy
07-02-05, 16:02
Regarding asurman's and jester's/eric's little argument; I'm somewhere in the middle.
I wouldn't go as far as what was said in asurman's first post (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=122447&page=3&pp=39).
There are probably three types of rp.
The first is where people use it as an excuse to do whatever they want and/or to be complete arseholes, which though it isn't really RP, can't be argued as such because you can't determine (even if blatently obvious) whether it is or not.
Then you have RP where you select a role and play it. Unfortunately this cannot be distinguished from the first, unless you are a carebear :rolleyes:.
Then you have RP where you play a predesignated role. Eg. Crahn sect fanatic, Merc, etc.
Easier to distiguish from the first type, but will still be discarded as an excuse if you actually try to do anything that might upset someone.
So, if you are a member of a particular faction, should you conform to the role(s) that it sets out?
If you argue no, why?
If you argue yes, why?
What place does someone have in their chosen faction if they do not adhere to it's ideals, roles, rules and reason d'etre?
Why should someone adhere to them?
Frankly those are rhetorical/theoretical questions that can't really be answered well here, especially by one as dimm witted as myself.
Personally, it does irritate me a lot when people act well outside the role(s)/position(s) that their faction membership defines. Why else are you in that faction? Admittedly this is restricted mostly to my own faction and those factions that have more defined 'roles' in the NC world, but why would a member, or group of a faction, lets take CA as an example, mindlessly gank people that they are supposed to protect, or trying to win over?
Even a BD group that did the same to the members of DoY would be out of place. A drug dealer does not beat up his clients, or the client goes elsewhere.
In general I just dislike stuff being done without a reason. I ask someone why they come to MB pking, I get 'LOL stfu' or some pathetic excuse, or most of the time, simply nothing.
The faction symp/SL system does need an overhaul. Time and again I/we have said that runner actions must have consequeses. So that those who DO go against their factions desires/expectations are dealt with as they WOULD be. Going all they way from FSM access revocation to expulsion.
Guard response, trader response, access to areas and systems and services needs to be directly tied to faction symp.
Remember also that AB does not = gankers/killers. AB is in effect a faction in itself. They are anti authority/regulation, against the system, they are and should not be hostile to all.
Loosing ones faction would not automatically give you AB membership.
This is not an fps (in the traditional term), but it IS a PvP based rpg. The two ARE different.
//edit
Oh, and killing someone while they are hunting is pretty lame.
Nikabolokov
07-02-05, 16:21
Have to say , I hate the way that AB is Invite only on Pandore, one of their bad additions if you ask me.
Have to say , I hate the way that AB is Invite only on Pandore, one of their bad additions if you ask me.
WTF?? You can be anarchy breed on the french server?
As far as Le's go I have one Le'd character and when i cap im pulling it out when I cap I just feel like leveling in peace thats all. LE people arnt handicap or retarted and they arent special people they need love like everyone else...hell they gotta get some too just like ugly people. :lol: Anyways, its not fair to say LE people are gimps just cuz they dont want to pull out thier LE's and pvp.
Nikabolokov
07-02-05, 20:56
WTF?? You can be anarchy breed on the french server?
Yup, but only if the FC invites you and only if the other AB players have no objections, is what I hear. I haven't actually played on the French server since NC1, as the population count is attrocious in NC2.
Jesterthegreat
08-02-05, 02:07
Why are you in PRO city?
Reza wouldnt like that kind of actions in his city.
but fuck, I can list a lot of things wrong
I much perfer game mechanic problems then community maturity problems the former is easier to fix then the later, without banning that is
i could name RP arguements for this but why bother? if your against it you wont listen.
oh and it breaks no rules... unlike your sig... which is 144 pix high as apposed to the allowed 100 pix.
QuantumDelta
08-02-05, 02:25
Sorry, Junkeh, but you play this game as quake.
Sorry, anyone who thinks F6 RP isn't the way to go:
This game isn't for you.
It's not just the SL loss 'you deal with' it's the SL loss you inflict on other people when some nub gets killed and you have to go sort out the killer. .......... unless they've run off already like panzies.
--
Yea, WoW System or broke with this ...........mature, community.
Jesterthegreat
08-02-05, 02:32
Sorry, Junkeh, but you play this game as quake.
Sorry, anyone who thinks F6 RP isn't the way to go:
This game isn't for you.
It's not just the SL loss 'you deal with' it's the SL loss you inflict on other people when some nub gets killed and you have to go sort out the killer. .......... unless they've run off already like panzies.
--
Yea, WoW System or broke with this ...........mature, community.
i dont base my gameplay on F6 if thats what you mean...
i choose my own enemies and allies
Sorry, Junkeh, but you play this game as quake.
Sorry, anyone who thinks F6 RP isn't the way to go:
This game isn't for you.
It's not just the SL loss 'you deal with' it's the SL loss you inflict on other people when some nub gets killed and you have to go sort out the killer. .......... unless they've run off already like panzies.
--
Yea, WoW System or broke with this ...........mature, community.People can do whatever they want. The whole problem is that theres no real punishment for that behavior. Its to easy to pk allies, get SL and symp back. That shit needs a change, thats all. If they had to face real consequences, most would go back to killing red people instead of the guy next door. :)
Asurmen Spec Op
08-02-05, 06:13
In regards to the AB thing.
It would do a lot for the game if KK allowed players to move into it. Maybe not by choice but by actions. A certain level of -SL maybe, a certain number of allied kills in a row. But clans should NOT be allowed in AB.
In my opinion , AB would not have clans, as the whole of AB would in fact be a clan of sorts. make any non AB buff not touch ABs, fix alot of problems, and ruin all their fun*cough*jester*cough*
and jester, wow point out my sig SO fucking good argument for it
you got PR reasons for a member of Rezas own faction causing anarchy inside his city!? cmon I gotta hear this.
You cant say reza makes you your clan has openly said fuck reza before so keep trying.
You RP but you dont deal with F6?
Im a FPS player but I perfer turn based thanks O_o
Guess what Jester WHEN the penalties for you escapades become more then a SL hit and having your favorite clan strap on following you. No one will care about your whining. Id really like to see some one who cares about the poor allied ganker who uses a PPU when its get to tuff.
Cmon jester tell me, what will you do then
*it has been adressed that is not IF but WHEN its changed to fuck the assholes over.
Jesterthegreat
08-02-05, 08:10
make any non AB buff not touch ABs, fix alot of problems, and ruin all their fun*cough*jester*cough* i wasnt aware KK are supposed to go out of their way to "ruin peoples fun"...
and jester, wow point out my sig SO fucking good argument for it i can manage to talk about multipletopics...yay me
you got PR reasons for a member of Rezas own faction causing anarchy inside his city!? cmon I gotta hear this. please... look in the history. theres been various secret police agencies, and theres always people dissattisfied with the way things are (kind of like you are, evident by your constant whine)
You cant say reza makes you your clan has openly said fuck reza before so keep trying. im sorry... my RP does not get rated or accepted my you. you are a customer the same as me and need to lose the mightier than thou attitude.
You RP but you dont deal with F6? know what RP even is? RP is playing a role. now if im acting out a roll... living my char... tell me why i should use stupid faction alliances (in whinch half my old enemies are now friends) when i can use my own mindto make my own decisions?
Im a FPS player but I perfer turn based thanks O_o fair enough. i play RPG's more than FPS's, but in MMO's ihate turn based. thats just my personal choice. of course if you prefer turn based i would suggest you play WoW instead.
Guess what Jester WHEN the penalties for you escapades become more then a SL hit and having your favorite clan strap on following you. No one will care about your whining. Id really like to see some one who cares about the poor allied ganker who uses a PPU when its get to tuff.
Cmon jester tell me, what will you do then my whining? oh the irony... and what will we do? the majority of NCAT have played since various beta stages. whenever a big change has happened we have adjusted. we will continue to do this.
*it has been adressed that is not IF but WHEN its changed to fuck the assholes over.
when it happens... it happens. until then... it hasnt.
we break no rules. you bitch and moan. its really starting to get old tbh.
tell me why i should use stupid faction alliances (in whinch half my old enemies are now friends) when i can use my own mindto make my own decisions?Because if this game's rules and systems were at all consistent with its backstory, by now Leoon Reza would have had you hauled out and repeatedly shot for violating his orders. He's not the kind of guy who makes suggestions.
Jesterthegreat
08-02-05, 09:32
Because if this game's rules and systems were at all consistent with its backstory, by now Leoon Reza would have had you hauled out and repeatedly shot for violating his orders. He's not the kind of guy who makes suggestions.
you know all his orders then?
doubtful.
everyone tries to RP by saying they know the secret details of what Reeza thinks. thats all that seems to qualify as RP now. actually playing your own role as apposed to deciding what other people wantyou to do is a big nono.
darknessfairy
08-02-05, 09:36
you know all his orders then?
doubtful.
everyone tries to RP by saying they know the secret details of what Reeza thinks. thats all that seems to qualify as RP now. actually playing your own role as apposed to deciding what other people wantyou to do is a big nono.
junkie sweetheart, calm down, ignore everyone who you believe to be wrong, they'll ignore you if they think you're wrong and all is ok in the world. and then think happy thoughts, like erm... idk our pr0n session in p1 ages ago :p
This game is about PvP. Completely.No it's not. PvP is a core element, but it's not _all_ about PvP.
But what would I know, right? I've only been playing with LEs in all my various characters since August, 2001...
you know all his orders then?The point that you're missing is that the F6 window is part of your orders from your faction chief. You're under orders, same as every other runner in your faction, to lay off of the people in green and in yellow. That's why you not only lose faction sympathy but soul-light for killing them. By the rules of this game, kill anybody in a warzone, that's part of your job. Kill anybody red, that's part of your job. Kill anybody green or yellow, and suddenly you're no longer entitled to the protection of your organization.
Kill anybody red, that's part of your job. Kill anybody green or yellow, and suddenly you're no longer entitled to the protection of your organization.
to kill red's (faction+soullight) / yellows (soullight) is part of your job at all.
to kill red's (faction+soullight) / yellows (soullight) is part of your job at all.
think hes talking about faction you sound like your talking about SL
So let me get this straight....
Jester thinks that since no player can possibly know everything going on in the mind of an NPC anyone is free to make up their own mind about what the NPC wants them to do (even if its in direct conflict with the established goals and motivations of the faction)?
In which case why have any factions at all, why bother creating the diverse goals and motivations and just make the game a bloody deathmatch
Jester - you dont honestly expect anyone else to buy that shit do you? That just comes across as you're looking for a loophole/justification to be an asshole (I'm not saying you are - I've never met you, just telling you what your position sounds like)
Unrelated comment - If this game was all and only about PvP then I suspect the LE would _never_ have been put in (since KK wouldnt have even considered a carebear as a valid customer) but at the same time I suspect they'd have gone out of their way to make PvP fair (in terms of making it so that only similarly ranked runners could fight each other)
Every game has a set of rules and parameters, they structure the game play and help to stop things descending into pointless anarchy.
If you don't like the basic rules of this game then maybe you should find something else that seems to suit you, rather than making the game, and everyone else playing it, change just to suit you & your style of play.
This isn't a game of perma-quake..
Jester - you don't honestly expect anyone else to buy that shit do you? That just comes across as you're looking for a loophole/justification to be an asshole
Funny, but that's how it comes across to me to.
Asurmen Spec Op
08-02-05, 15:39
Ofcorse jeseter, after all, nothing like a secret police who randomly kills people who GR into Plaza
Im usre Reza LOVES that
Bugs Gunny
08-02-05, 16:34
What realy bugs me is seeing Phaze members helping that "secret police" when they get attacked.
Nothing i detest more than people siding with the enemy in the hopes of not getting attacked by them. What happened to Phaze lately?
What realy bugs me is seeing Phaze members helping that "secret police" when they get attacked.
Nothing i detest more than people siding with the enemy in the hopes of not getting attacked by them. What happened to Phaze lately?
There are very few of them that I respect now.
>Then you have RP where you play a predesignated role. Eg. Crahn sect fanatic, > Merc, etc.
> Easier to distiguish from the first type, but will still be discarded as an excuse >if you actually try to do anything that might upset someone.
I fall into this catagory and F6 does play a role. It has to, to some degree, although you are not bound by it. If I see CA I tend to attack as it is CA who were responsible for exiling me from the city. The rest I tend not to bother with, although I'm red to them as they are city people so I expect to get shot at.
As someone dim-witted saif afore, this is a PVP role playing game. One slot servers solve this problem as you are responsible for your actions.
Jesterthegreat
08-02-05, 22:00
So let me get this straight....
Jester thinks that since no player can possibly know everything going on in the mind of an NPC anyone is free to make up their own mind about what the NPC wants them to do (even if its in direct conflict with the established goals and motivations of the faction)?
In which case why have any factions at all, why bother creating the diverse goals and motivations and just make the game a bloody deathmatch
Jester - you dont honestly expect anyone else to buy that shit do you? That just comes across as you're looking for a loophole/justification to be an asshole (I'm not saying you are - I've never met you, just telling you what your position sounds like)
Unrelated comment - If this game was all and only about PvP then I suspect the LE would _never_ have been put in (since KK wouldnt have even considered a carebear as a valid customer) but at the same time I suspect they'd have gone out of their way to make PvP fair (in terms of making it so that only similarly ranked runners could fight each other)
why do people have this idiotic idea that making your own decisions = "deathmatch" while blindly following F6 = "RP"?
by making my own decisions i am playing a role... by blindly following F6 you are just playing a team deathmatch.
i dont attack everyone i see so its not a deathmatch to me.
bottom line time.
1. its not against any game rules.
2. everyone will continue to think what they want (this is both sides of this arguement).
3. when i see someone RPing i dont come here to whine. i let them play how they want... yet it is us who are called the kiddies with no respect for others.
:edit: @ tost
when we were NFing... did i randomly attack peoiple in duels? did i generally act like a little kiddie?
where theres decent fighting to be had ill fight. wheres theres not i might choose to start one.
:edit2: oh and i have yet to see Phaze support us in plaza.
we are NAP'd with phaze. the whole point in the big nap a while back was to raid doy, do events etc... however we decided since most pro city clans do fuck all there was no point. decent clans that fight for pro city we will consider friends.
why do people have this idiotic idea that making your own decisions = "deathmatch" while blindly following F6 = "RP"?
by making my own decisions i am playing a role... by blindly following F6 you are just playing a team deathmatch.
i dont attack everyone i see so its not a deathmatch to me.
bottom line time.
1. its not against any game rules.
2. everyone will continue to think what they want (this is both sides of this arguement).
3. when i see someone RPing i dont come here to whine. i let them play how they want... yet it is us who are called the kiddies with no respect for others.
hmmm Ok
But you do freely admit that the role you play is not within the parameters of the faction you are a member of
Thats the part I have an issue with - There must be a reason you havent picked a more suitable faction for your 'role' and I suspect its more of a game mechanic reason than an RP one........
Jesterthegreat
08-02-05, 22:34
hmmm Ok
But you do freely admit that the role you play is not within the parameters of the faction you are a member of
Thats the part I have an issue with - There must be a reason you havent picked a more suitable faction for your 'role' and I suspect its more of a game mechanic reason than an RP one........
if you can convince a dev to move us to Anarchy Breed, and if the rest of the lads agree... ill be happy with that.
and the basic question you are askin is "why fight allies"?
its that or fight a rather large zerg with more PPU's than we have in our entire team (naming no anti city clan names of course :rolleyes:)
1. pro city gr's arent locked.
2. they tend to fight back with 2 PPU's tops.
these 2 combined makes it a hella lot more fun than trekking to CRP or DoY to be attacked by 5 PPU's, 4 APU's 2 melee tanks and a droner...
Asurmen Spec Op
09-02-05, 01:28
ofcorse, you dont use PPUs!
ofcorse Mr jester webelive you..
really I know UPS uses alot of PPUs, but so does everyone else
Jesterthegreat
09-02-05, 02:06
ofcorse, you dont use PPUs!
ofcorse Mr jester webelive you..
really I know UPS uses alot of PPUs, but so does everyone else
this is your arguement?
this is your contribution?
petty little snide comments?
grow up. take part in the discussion or stop posting.
:edit: 5150 asked a question without flaming or without beind patronising... and see what he got? thats right a serious answer.
take a hint and grow up
Asurmen Spec Op
09-02-05, 03:02
this is your arguement?
this is your contribution?
petty little snide comments?
grow up. take part in the discussion or stop posting.
:edit: 5150 asked a question without flaming or without beind patronising... and see what he got? thats right a serious answer.
take a hint and grow up I can openly insult what I think is a lie Mr jester, plus I didnt flame UPS or whatever clan your in now.
Note how I said as does everyone else
meaning the PPU isnt really a big thing.
But fine Jester ill go back to the main point of the thread and ignore ya, if thats what ye want so beit
I think alot of them are LEd because alot of good lvling spots are compromised, MB, El farid, etc. and with LEs you can go AFK in your city. I personally dont use LEs beacuse 1: they are a dumb consept for those to weak 2: implant slot.
the people first use them to lvl then just leave em in
ofcorse, you dont use PPUs!
ofcorse Mr jester webelive you..
really I know UPS uses alot of PPUs, but so does everyone else
He said we use 2 ppu's at the most usaully, not that we don't use them.
And yes, the huge number of uPs ppu's you see logged on at the same time, 2-3 tops.
If you go afk in the city you deserve to die, that was true for nc1 as it is for nc2. There's not point in going afk in the game, especially with the memory leak as it is.
I don't see how LEs they are a "dumb concept for the weak", the le's are there for people who don't want to pvp, or pvp at this time. I've got no problem with people using the le, I have a problem with people exploiting and hiding behind the le.
Jesterthegreat
09-02-05, 08:21
He said we use 2 ppu's at the most usaully, not that we don't use them.
And yes, the huge number of uPs ppu's you see logged on at the same time, 2-3 tops.
If you go afk in the city you deserve to die, that was true for nc1 as it is for nc2. There's not point in going afk in the game, especially with the memory leak as it is.
I don't see how LEs they are a "dumb concept for the weak", the le'ers are there for people who don't want to pvp, or pvp at this time. I've got no problem with people using the le, I have a problem with people exploiting and hiding behind the le.
exactly what i been sayin :p
exactly what i been sayin :p
Support to the cause from your favourite clannie :wtf: :p :lol:
Ozambabbaz
09-02-05, 13:07
i can't recall seeing you guys do some of that cool, independent allied killing without a PPU. You say you don't want to play with the big boys because you'd lose so you pick on the smaller kids in the class, i find that pathetic and ironic.
Attacking individuals or 2-3 runners in Plaza with intent is very much zerging just on another scale, no?
Using a PPU here in these assaults is also outmonking the opponent since they're just standing around, gawking and talking, no?
Would you class your actions as "encouraging for more pro-city team-work with pro-city dominance over OPs and joint attacks on the DoY city as part goals"? i'd bet that if there was some more cooperation city clans inbetween, there would be more GRs opened for cityfolk, no?
What i mean is, your ass is only hot from the friction because your dumping shit very friggin second, if you want to have good fights you got to do more for it, keep up what you do now, and your forcing more people to DoY and ensuring that more city controlled OPs will have their GRs locked down.
Dr Strange
09-02-05, 13:11
if you can convince a dev to move us to Anarchy Breed, and if the rest of the lads agree... ill be happy with that.
and the basic question you are askin is "why fight allies"?
its that or fight a rather large zerg with more PPU's than we have in our entire team (naming no anti city clan names of course :rolleyes:)
1. pro city gr's arent locked.
2. they tend to fight back with 2 PPU's tops.
these 2 combined makes it a hella lot more fun than trekking to CRP or DoY to be attacked by 5 PPU's, 4 APU's 2 melee tanks and a droner...
So because one specific Anti clan has basically dominated all challlenges thus far in NC2 (afaik), it's a justification for ally killing?
Basically your post is summed up as "they're too good". They have large numbers because they kick ass, they are one of the better clans out there. Afaik they don't have a huge number of hackers, so seeing them defend hacknet for ops is an amazing feat they pull off with good form.
You're just lazy. If you don't stand a chance aganist the actual "enemies" ingame, you make "enemies" out of structured allies? No I am not talking about people or clans hiding behind F6 but several people have said: what is the point of factions at all?
Seriously? I mean if you and other Pro clans just give up so easily fighting Anti City that you'll turn on fellow Pro's like rabid hyenas looking for a feast, why not just have the devs remove factions all together, keep NPC's for things like vendors, various non-factionated epics, clans etc and just let clans war/fight other clans? Problems solved. You could kill anyone your little heart desires just like you do now (you say you dont, but ya do. ask some average pro runners who arent clanned they'll atest to it).
You can try to justify your Ally war mongering any way you want. Point is Anti City's kung fu is strong, you just can't seem to step up to the bar and try harder.
And my favorite part, the part I savor like a steak dinner is that people point and laugh at carebears who never yank their LE, don't wanna join clans or pvp or whatever, this is exactly why. Sure the game does have a heavy PvP aspect but just being ganked by Allies isn't PvP; shot in the back while shopping at a vendor is not PvP, shot in the face while you are still synching is not PvP, defending yourself aganist Allies isn't PvP it's a sad thing really cause you would think most of the counter strike teenagers would be playing CS:S by now.
Ironically, we don't have as much of this in Anti. Sure there are a couple Anti clans that Ally gank here and there, but when their bitch smacked by pro city their usually the first to send the call for help.
if you can convince a dev to move us to Anarchy Breed, and if the rest of the lads agree... ill be happy with that.
and the basic question you are askin is "why fight allies"?
its that or fight a rather large zerg with more PPU's than we have in our entire team (naming no anti city clan names of course :rolleyes:)
1. pro city gr's arent locked.
2. they tend to fight back with 2 PPU's tops.
these 2 combined makes it a hella lot more fun than trekking to CRP or DoY to be attacked by 5 PPU's, 4 APU's 2 melee tanks and a droner...
I appeciate your candor Jester
Now that we are down to the meat of the problem its easier to see what would need to be done to resolve the issue (getting it done is another matter completely)
So this comes down to is how accessible PvP is and how much fun it is?
In which respect its not much different to newbie PK'ers who do it in the hope that it will summon an high level alt/clan mate and create a good fight
The problem in both cases is that the recipient probably doesn't want/isnt expecting PvP. I know it's arguable that in Neocron you should expect PvP anywhere or keep your LE and and it would appear that this is exactly what people are doing - keeping their LE in
Unfortunately this is a self defeating practice. You dont find the established PvP 'fun' (for the reasons stated) so you adapt your own - unfortunately it won't be long before your 'victims' have either quit, moved to DoY or put LE's in thus returning you to the original problem (potentially with a smaller playerbase to boot) this can only be a bad thing(tm) in the long term.
I think it's easy to say that certain changes are needed (or in some cases things changed back) to make PvP more accessible to those that want to, hopefully making life easier for those that don't want to [at that point in time].
I dont see any point in 'discussing' PPUs etc because (as long as the PPU stays the way it is) PPUs will _always_ be the subject of 'discussions' even between established hostile factions - in other words the PPU debate doesnt help us address the 'allied PK' issue.
Jesterthegreat
09-02-05, 14:20
I appeciate your candor Jester
Now that we are down to the meat of the problem its easier to see what would need to be done to resolve the issue (getting it done is another matter completely)
So this comes down to is how accessible PvP is and how much fun it is?
In which respect its not much different to newbie PK'ers who do it in the hope that it will summon an high level alt/clan mate and create a good fight except i dont kill noobs or tradeskillers (where possible... we all know that sometimes you have to walk right up to someone to see rank). i fight people who can fight back.
The problem in both cases is that the recipient probably doesn't want/isnt expecting PvP. I know it's arguable that in Neocron you should expect PvP anywhere or keep your LE and and it would appear that this is exactly what people are doing - keeping their LE in people are aware that these areas are no longer safezones. if you wish to hang around and chat theres various ways to do it. HQ's, TH or team / clan / buddy / direct chats.
Unfortunately this is a self defeating practice. You dont find the established PvP 'fun' (for the reasons stated) so you adapt your own - unfortunately it won't be long before your 'victims' have either quit, moved to DoY or put LE's in thus returning you to the original problem (potentially with a smaller playerbase to boot) this can only be a bad thing(tm) in the long term. them moving to DoY isnt necessaraly a bad thing, pvp wise. the bad thing is if they just join the biggest possible DoY clan. if a clan were to move over there, but keep its independance... fight its own fights... then its still good PVP (even if its more hassle to get to)
I think it's easy to say that certain changes are needed (or in some cases things changed back) to make PvP more accessible to those that want to, hopefully making life easier for those that don't want to [at that point in time]. i agree there are things that need changing. the SL system being one of them.
I dont see any point in 'discussing' PPUs etc because (as long as the PPU stays the way it is) PPUs will _always_ be the subject of 'discussions' even between established hostile factions - in other words the PPU debate doesnt help us address the 'allied PK' issue.
if both sides used equal numbers of PPU's i would consider the point void... but in ally fighting it tends to be equal numbers of PPU's, in fights vs a big enemy clan (i hate not bein able to name them...) thats rarely the case. ffs i remember fightin them recently with my clan... they brought allies AND a doy bomber... as well as outnumbering us from the outset.
i would address the points raised by others... but ill wait til they put it in a reasonable manner. i have decided that i wont get drawn into a flame war, so they can discuss it civally or just talk to themselves.
Obsidian X
09-02-05, 16:08
Would anyone else agree that half of this problem is due to the fact the two cities are so far apart and isolated now? DoY is a hell of a long way away form Neocron, and even at cap level, its difficult to infiltrate without a PPU/Stealth. This was never a problem in NC1, as allies and enemies all hung around Plaza, and you could satisfy your PvP needs by going down the P2 aggie cellars or Pepper Park, and fighting with the PKers down there.
When DoY was added to the map, the general idea was that a red vs blue approach would take over the traditional F6 rules. The problem is that game mechanics don't make it easy to raid either city (copbots, DoY guards, johhny 5's etc). Coupled with the smaller populations these days, the situation is that DoY's stay in DoY, Neocronians stay in Neocron, and people leave only to level, or go to the usual spots (CRP etc), maybe the odd OP fight. Pepper Park is desolate these days, I myself run round Pepper Park regularly hoping to get into a fight, but nothing. Its too far for anti-city and too much hassle. Dome of York has effectively killed (or at least crippled) PVP in this game.
Therefore you have this whole allied PK situation. I personally can't stand it, and have never ganked an ally in my life, but I do think the problem is more fundamental than a SL Rework after thinking about it. And of course, this leads to people having LE's at high levels; theres no proper PvP accessible around them, and therefore theres no real reason to take the LE out. What we now have is a downward spiral that is going to see more people opting out of PvP, when this whole "Get shot by an ally at Yo's" style of PvP is the only one left. :rolleyes:
Maybe the decrease in SL gain from missions or their removal completely (and the lowering of Faction points per mission dependant on your SL) would make it more of a "punishment" - bring in a new SL mission - harder and longer to make you earn those points back.
If people are so desparate to go to Anarchy breed they why dont they go to the French Server, I belive they allow access to that Faction over there (although you have to jump through hoops and even RP to get in). But that would be too easy wouldnt it?
As an alternative why not join the Mercs at least they have a neutral stance - better than allied PKing?
except i dont kill noobs or tradeskillers (where possible... we all know that sometimes you have to walk right up to someone to see rank). i fight people who can fight back.
people are aware that these areas are no longer safezones. if you wish to hang around and chat theres various ways to do it. HQ's, TH or team / clan / buddy / direct chats.
them moving to DoY isnt necessaraly a bad thing, pvp wise. the bad thing is if they just join the biggest possible DoY clan. if a clan were to move over there, but keep its independance... fight its own fights... then its still good PVP (even if its more hassle to get to)
i agree there are things that need changing. the SL system being one of them.
Actually I wasn't suggesting you did newbie kill, I was just drawing parallels between this and other 'anti social' behaviour in the game.
Having said that, you've already said how fighting DOY players is more hassle than fighting those in your back yard - I suspect you'd 'put up with' everyone moving to DoY simply because there wouldnt be anyone else left to try and kill (but we all know how unlikely it is that 'everyone' will move to DoY because of allied killing - I'd expect people to cancel before going to those lengths)
Would anyone else agree that half of this problem is due to the fact the two cities are so far apart and isolated now? DoY is a hell of a long way away form Neocron, and even at cap level, its difficult to infiltrate without a PPU/Stealth. This was never a problem in NC1, as allies and enemies all hung around Plaza, and you could satisfy your PvP needs by going down the P2 aggie cellars or Pepper Park, and fighting with the PKers down there.
When DoY was added to the map, the general idea was that a red vs blue approach would take over the traditional F6 rules. The problem is that game mechanics don't make it easy to raid either city (copbots, DoY guards, johhny 5's etc). Coupled with the smaller populations these days, the situation is that DoY's stay in DoY, Neocronians stay in Neocron, and people leave only to level, or go to the usual spots (CRP etc), maybe the odd OP fight. Pepper Park is desolate these days, I myself run round Pepper Park regularly hoping to get into a fight, but nothing. Its too far for anti-city and too much hassle. Dome of York has effectively killed (or at least crippled) PVP in this game.
Therefore you have this whole allied PK situation. I personally can't stand it, and have never ganked an ally in my life, but I do think the problem is more fundamental than a SL Rework after thinking about it. And of course, this leads to people having LE's at high levels; theres no proper PvP accessible around them, and therefore theres no real reason to take the LE out. What we now have is a downward spiral that is going to see more people opting out of PvP, when this whole "Get shot by an ally at Yo's" style of PvP is the only one left. :rolleyes:
I think its more complicated than that - While DoY may have been designed with an eye on raiding it NC certainly wasn't (I'll point to the original safe zones and that fact that alot of 'enemies' also lived there) simply removing the safe zones doesnt suddenly give a city layout that had an eye on raiding.
Atm its relatively easy for DoY to gain access (notice I didnt say raid) NC (3 ways come to mind) while I cant think of a single way for a no-stealther to get into DoY
Yes the distance is a problem and I dont think everything was thought through (I'll point to the DRE Epic whee you have to kill a DRE runner here)
Having said all that I think its fairly obvious that the focus of PvP in this game was always intended to be the outposts (since there is a reward for holding them) and unfortunately due to the GenRep lockdown these are not easily attackable (although something had to be done to stop zerg tactics by attackers) and I believe that city raids have evolved simply to replace Op fights.
Overpowering clans are an unfortunate side effect of the decline in player numbers (and everyone likes to be on the winning side too) and the absence of any 'balance of power engine' (we all know where I got that from) prevents any smaller clans for standing a chance, this results in the 'ninja hack' culture we have (i.e. no PvP over Outposts) and leaves many players with raids (or allied killing) as the only way to find PvP
due to the distance between cities and lack of nearby usable GenReps allied killing wins hands down!
2 words :
Yup, but only if the FC invites you and only if the other AB players have no objections, is what I hear. I haven't actually played on the French server since NC1, as the population count is attrocious in NC2.
Right. (I play on Pandore ;) )
Why people keep their LE ?
Have you ever heard "you noob, don't whine if I killed you, keep your LE and shut up" one day or another ?
I'm sure you have ;)
Jesterthegreat
10-02-05, 02:04
Would anyone else agree that half of this problem is due to the fact the two cities are so far apart and isolated now? DoY is a hell of a long way away form Neocron, and even at cap level, its difficult to infiltrate without a PPU/Stealth. This was never a problem in NC1, as allies and enemies all hung around Plaza, and you could satisfy your PvP needs by going down the P2 aggie cellars or Pepper Park, and fighting with the PKers down there.
When DoY was added to the map, the general idea was that a red vs blue approach would take over the traditional F6 rules. The problem is that game mechanics don't make it easy to raid either city (copbots, DoY guards, johhny 5's etc). Coupled with the smaller populations these days, the situation is that DoY's stay in DoY, Neocronians stay in Neocron, and people leave only to level, or go to the usual spots (CRP etc), maybe the odd OP fight. Pepper Park is desolate these days, I myself run round Pepper Park regularly hoping to get into a fight, but nothing. Its too far for anti-city and too much hassle. Dome of York has effectively killed (or at least crippled) PVP in this game.
Therefore you have this whole allied PK situation. I personally can't stand it, and have never ganked an ally in my life, but I do think the problem is more fundamental than a SL Rework after thinking about it. And of course, this leads to people having LE's at high levels; theres no proper PvP accessible around them, and therefore theres no real reason to take the LE out. What we now have is a downward spiral that is going to see more people opting out of PvP, when this whole "Get shot by an ally at Yo's" style of PvP is the only one left. :rolleyes:
the distance combined with shitty gr rules is a factor.
Remove half the guards and the shock from their weapons and we'll saw more raids on each city. What's the worst that could happen? DoY would take over p1 and people would have to stay inside ca hq until enough people to came to push the DoY's back... That would make the game a whole lot more interesting.
1. pro city gr's arent locked.
2. they tend to fight back with 2 PPU's tops..
3. Tradeskillers are easier to kill
4. Same goes for afk people
5. Got an appartement nearby always u can zone into when u get hurt
6. Easier cuz most times they dunno u are gonna attack them unlike reds
7. etc etc
Remove half the guards and the shock from their weapons and we'll saw more raids on each city. What's the worst that could happen? DoY would take over p1 and people would have to stay inside ca hq until enough people to came to push the DoY's back... That would make the game a whole lot more interesting.
Yeah. At the moment the most interesting fights are the inter-city fights between clans etc. Plaza 2 is basically an arena for enemies and allies to fight now. Guards should have Para removed, damage isn't too bad (my tank/PE can get to a zoneline/GR with just a n00b heal on them when being hit by 3+ guards easily). Raiding DoY sucks as the guards there are really painful, and very close together. The other problem with raiding DoY is that every player and their bitch have a PPU rectally inserted.
Jesterthegreat
11-02-05, 00:41
3. Tradeskillers are easier to kill should have LE's or be in a safezone
4. Same goes for afk people ditto
5. Got an appartement nearby always u can zone into when u get hurt yeah! lets go to cycrow so FF can zonewhore / zerg / park an LE'd rhino on the UG instead!
6. Easier cuz most times they dunno u are gonna attack them unlike reds i think its fairly obvious from the amout of threads people know who pk's.
7. etc etc
exactly
Lets try looking at this another way
Would you guys prefer KK worked on the how viable it is to raid each others cities (distance, guards, zones etc) or how viable it is to fight over outposts (gr's, balance of power, hacking etc) again
I know some of you would like both - lets say that not an option for now...
Jesterthegreat
12-02-05, 02:11
Lets try looking at this another way
Would you guys prefer KK worked on the how viable it is to raid each others cities (distance, guards, zones etc) or how viable it is to fight over outposts (gr's, balance of power, hacking etc) again
I know some of you would like both - lets say that not an option for now...
I'd preferif they fixed NF (or better yet put an NF in TH) so i can fight people without as much bitching...
Maloch Octavia
12-02-05, 05:36
I don't know the current situation, but I wish to god, that Reakktor would just introduce the Anarchists and be done with it.
I've got one character sitting at -99 SL because back on the 'ol Saturn, all of the Black Dragon clan were dirty backstabbing whores, and although being allied, I had to kill all of them in return for their assaults on me. The system is shit, we've all suggested numerous detailed revisions, they never listen.
Create the Anarchy Breed, make them hostile to all, no SL penalties, ban them from Neocron city and Dome of York, even DoY doesn't want Anarchists, then give them a good helping of Nomad suppliers, and smuggling can become a 'reality' of sorts, and let everyone go to town.
*Sigh*
Dr Strange
12-02-05, 13:06
I'd preferif they fixed NF (or better yet put an NF in TH) so i can fight people without as much bitching...
Or you know, open War Games for those of us in Anti who have no NF to begin with
Just a thought
Jesterthegreat
12-02-05, 14:36
Or you know, open War Games for those of us in Anti who have no NF to begin with
Just a thought
whats the point if one deck with shitty fps lets 3 people in and the rest are all locked out?
fix it.
and a neutral location would allow easier access to fight anyone you want.
Dr Strange
12-02-05, 15:13
whats the point if one deck with shitty fps lets 3 people in and the rest are all locked out?
fix it.
and a neutral location would allow easier access to fight anyone you want.
I agree with the second thing said there.
However, even so a 3 person nf/wg deck is better than none. At best in Anti we have 1v1 teamed duels with a ppu oncall to rez after each death so theres no SI. In even a small screwed 3 person nf/wg you'd just need 2 people to duel or go FFA with 3 people since NF auto respawns, no SI, no dropped items, heal and ammo replenishers etc Not to mention the "shitty fps" ones dont seem to affect everyone. ive been in just about all NF decks at some point between now and when I started NC with its NC2 beta. Sure a couple are more fps heavy but none so drastic they gripple game play for the larger majority of people. Me of all people hate to say it but if you can duel 1v1 in a NF deck with no fps lag than whats normal for your setup, its your setup I'd guess.
You'd think they'd be nothing missed but for those of us inexperienced in pvp, our safest way to learn is prowl war zones which gets old cause if ya die ya got got huge SI and gotta gr back yet again when by that time has gone by we coulda had half a dozen or more duels in a NF deck.
You think there is somthing wrong with 99% of the ppl who play NC's comps and thats why we get bad FPS?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Richard Blade
12-02-05, 19:50
whats the point if one deck with shitty fps lets 3 people in and the rest are all locked out?
fix it.
and a neutral location would allow easier access to fight anyone you want.
How about a NF deck or two at Twister in the wastes?
Provided that they fix them, of course.
<- sorry, nothing to say on topic ->
Jesterthegreat
12-02-05, 20:52
How about a NF deck or two at Twister in the wastes?
Provided that they fix them, of course.
<- sorry, nothing to say on topic ->
twister or TH... or a whole new place.
So what server would be good for a player thats comeing back to the game ? I like to Pk when im higher level but i dont like this Ally killing you guys are talking about.
Jesterthegreat
12-02-05, 21:14
So what server would be good for a player thats comeing back to the game ? I like to Pk when im higher level but i dont like this Ally killing you guys are talking about.
well theres 1 int server (full of pvp of all kinds), a french server apparentlywith RP, a ger 1 slot and a ger 4 slot that i dont understand
you choose
:p
So what server would be good for a player thats comeing back to the game ? I like to Pk when im higher level but i dont like this Ally killing you guys are talking about.
If you are UK/USA go for Terra. We need more ppl any ways :p.
And I dont like ally PKing ether so i mainly just stay in CA HQ and then go to OP wars and on raids.
Hmm your confusing me here, Is there new servers now? I remember when i Played i think there was 4 servers. Saturn, Pluto, Jupiter etc. Are they just renamed or what? :confused:
If you are UK/USA go for Terra. We need more ppl any ways
Tbh, we need to create a mass-move to Mars, convince everyone, from both terra and.... uh, forgot the name of the other german server :p ...
Anyway, get EVERYONE to move to Mars, it's the least buggy server and it's (w00t!!!!) 1-slot :D
/edit - @Tarn - Those were the nc1 servers, they're still around (uh, some of them at least, but they still run nc1...) These are the new nc2-servers, they're basically the same as the nc1 ones, but there's no 1-slot international server, which kinda sucks :(
trigger hurt
13-02-05, 02:06
Tbh, we need to create a mass-move to Mars, convince everyone, from both terra and.... uh, forgot the name of the other german server :p ...
Anyway, get EVERYONE to move to Mars, it's the least buggy server and it's (w00t!!!!) 1-slot :D
/edit - @Tarn - Those were the nc1 servers, they're still around (uh, some of them at least, but they still run nc1...) These are the new nc2-servers, they're basically the same as the nc1 ones, but there's no 1-slot international server, which kinda sucks :(
I tried
All the german gives me a fucking headache. Then there;s the asshats that say "this is german server you go now"
Is there a 4 slot English server? ( for nc2 )
I tried
All the german gives me a fucking headache. Then there;s the asshats that say "this is german server you go now"
Yeah, and when they come on Terra they expect you to bow down and kiss their toes as they speak the "language of KK".
My personal response to all people of Germany who do the above on Terra is "Esse mein sheisse". Makes me feel good, as then they whine in German as I hit ignore :D
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