View Full Version : Just had a though, let me know your views?
Ok so we hear alot from PE's complaining about their weakness etc blah blah,
and it is stated that Pe's strength is their visility right?
So perhaps PE's should have MC, and HC PA? unless that's going to over power them.
Also I though "how come spies don't have drone PA?"
So lets say the reason for this is they'd be too powerful and it'd be unfair, then how about just creating a sort of neutral PA instead of giving extra HC or MC or RCL they give some agility or atheltics or endurance? maybe some Transport.
Thus a HC pe would have a reason to wear PA again because it doesnt require high dex, maybe it requires high strength so they can't be a rifler and use it.
Just a though....
Jesterthegreat
31-01-05, 18:28
why...
IMO PE's shouldnt have any PA's... but its a bit late for that.
HC and MC PE's cap their weapons without gimpage.
while i agree PE's arent the most usefull OP war class, i dont think this will change anything.
Dribble Joy
31-01-05, 18:34
PEs are not 'weak', people that argue that don't realise how they fit into the rest of PvP.
The problem is the effects PPUs have on other runners.
The proportional changes that a ppu makes to an apu or tank is far far far in excess of that which the PE receives.
Outside the team dynamic, PEs, tanks and APUs are actually quite well balanced.
//edit, sorry if that sounded totally arrogant.
Jesterthegreat
31-01-05, 18:41
PEs are not 'weak', people that argue that don't realise how they fit into the rest of PvP.
The problem is the effects PPUs have on other runners.
The proportional changes that a ppu makes to an apu or tank is far far far in excess of that which the PE receives.
Outside the team dynamic, PEs, tanks and APUs are actually quite well balanced.
i'd agree here. i love my PE... if im PKing i use my PE everytime.
i tend to use an APU for OP wars but i dont think PE's need anything in general
Same here, i havent played anything other than my PE for months now
but what DJ said is right
if you break it down like this
a Pe defense cant really be boosted much above what it already is, except for holy heal, whereas a tanks and APUs can be increased 300%
PE's = good for PvP, good defences etc, shit for ops.
Tanks, monks = good for PvP + OPs - lots of firepower and can be fucking invinceble with a PPU-anal-dildo.
why...
IMO PE's shouldnt have any PA's... but its a bit late for that.
HC and MC PE's cap their weapons without gimpage.
while i agree PE's arent the most usefull OP war class, i dont think this will change anything.
Yeah, the damn PA is the only problem with PE/Spy weapons. It`s too easy to get the same dex as a spy. Removing the PA or alteast the bonus would solve a lot of problems.
And i definately dont consider PEs weak, a good PE is a fearful enemy. You just gotta depend what you want... Drugged hitec PE with high damage output? Drugfree lowtech with rather low damage output but great defense? Vehicle HC/MC PE? Great fun, they only need 1 drug to work aswell. I dont really see a problem with PEs.
Its not PEs too weak in opwars, its monks too powerful in opwars.
Did i mention my new love lately? Capped PoT, Capped Tangent Plasma Cannon, real fast DB n shelter, trike, rhino, reveller, 460 health, amazing resists?
:p :p :p :p
My very first char was a PE (you can guess the chars name eh?), I really enjoy playing as a PE but their usefulness in OP wars is most defiantly limited, to the extent of which, if a clan turned up supporting another clan at and OP-war with a bunch of PEs you would either think they were a bunch of noobs or generally have no idea how to fight an OP-war :wtf: .
Bit sad really considering the PE seems to be the embodiment of the original human in NC :rolleyes: , its hard to say what PEs need to catch up with thier counterparts
I love my PE, and he is certainly not weak. With the right setup, you can give even the best tanks a run for their money.
They aren't great for OPs, but can be useful for hunting droners or fleeing enemies. And hacking a layer of course.
its weird...ill charge straight into a fight with a spy or a tank, but i fight with another PE will be one ill think twice about getting into...coz thesedays PEs aint as common, and most of the PE left are hardcore players who have their setups tuned down to a point and now the game like the back of their hands lol :p
Bugs Gunny
01-02-05, 12:10
PE's > all but ppu hybrid.
its weird...ill charge straight into a fight with a spy or a tank, but i fight with another PE will be one ill think twice about getting into...coz thesedays PEs aint as common, and most of the PE left are hardcore players who have their setups tuned down to a point and now the game like the back of their hands lol :p
My spy has killed PE's, dime a dozen, but every now and then, you run into a PE that restores your faith in the class.
I am not saying my spy is good, I am saying the PE's were crap.
PE's need to focus more on their setups than any other class, and need to get it spot on.Tnaks can still have a few points left, APU's = no enough popints, so they need to kill you quick, Spies - Stealth.
Making PE's the hardest class to get right.
Bugs Gunny
01-02-05, 14:24
When fighting a good pe, you'll think you're winning and 5 seconds later you're db'ed, he's back to half health and you're going down like a sack of shit.
Obsidian X
01-02-05, 19:29
Don't think PEs need MC and HC PA, they're good enough already and are primarily built to use pistols and rifles.
I think the PE's PSI abilities give him the edge, if he had PSI equal to that of say a tank, he couldn't shelter, DB or runcast heal (effectively) which would make him useless.
However because a melee PE for example has these PSI abilities, he can nail you with a DB and deal good dmg output (PoT capped), and he can run rings round you, healing himself while you're getting you're ass handed to you (speaking as a near capped melee tank dueling many of these melee PEs).
I used to think PEs sucked, especially melee and HC PE's. After fighting many good ones, I realised it is indeed I that sucks, and well set up PEs can beat any opponent solo. :p
Original Point: PEs don't need STR based PA as well, or we could be seeing Electric Tempest shocking/DBing/Sheltering/Capped heal melee PE's, which all could agree would be a nightmare! O_o
IMO - it's not PEs that need a rework, it's the other classes. More flexibility for all of them, as in PAs for every weapon type FOR EVERY VIABLE CLASS.
Eliminating the cookie cutter is a big issue with me.
For example..
PEs need pistol rifle MC HC PA
Spys - Could do with an MC enhancing PA - maybe some kind of augmentation helmet for vehicle use?
Tanks - CAN USE PISTOLS DAMMIT! and it's bloody fun.
Monks. Well Hybrid PA would kill me - but I would like to request this for them.
Any APU spell cannot be used if any PPU points are allocated on a char
Same goes for PPU
that way Hybrids cannot use APU/PPU spells - they have thier own set of "hybrid spells"
Tada. - Everyone is happy.
My spy has killed PE's, dime a dozen, but every now and then, you run into a PE that restores your faith in the class.
I am not saying my spy is good, I am saying the PE's were crap.
PE's need to focus more on their setups than any other class, and need to get it spot on.Tnaks can still have a few points left, APU's = no enough popints, so they need to kill you quick, Spies - Stealth.
Making PE's the hardest class to get right.
Lol tell me about it, but i never have problems with spys infact the only time a spy has killed me is with sniping me while hacking or fighting a powerful mob (so it does most of the work for em) In a fight I usually win and my pe isnt really designed for close combat fighting, I made him as a sniper. <-- yeah i know stupid but when i got NC1 my mate told me (being a noob) that PE's could get 100 Dex and 80 Str, he was gonna be an MC/Rifle PE. He's not just a rifle pe.
And he's pretty good at op fights too, I really do piss people off with my silent hunter. Ok so i dont kill anyone but when it's just me there and they have 3 ppu's you cant really expect much, it's always "just one more shot and your dead" lol They are my fave class though, no idea why I'm always dying one way or another, I think thats just my lag though most times i fight I don't know who's attacking till im on 30% health. Can't wait till i get me 2mbps upgrade :D
i'd agree here. i love my PE... if im PKing i use my PE everytime.
rite....................
PEs could use a boost though.
Tell me what u rather want.. PEs or more monks?
I can tell u now that if a team of 4 PEs attack cycrow, they'll get zerged by over 10 monks and Tanks.. we've all seen that.
ppl dont know how fun PEs are, they just use monks or tanks instead.
although PPU is my main class/char... I get more fun playing PEs.
they could use a new item, whatever happened to the jetpack btw ?
Sleezy Gonzales
02-02-05, 14:21
People always tell me that i should make a monk if i want to kill people, or a sword tank.
I've heard them say nothing good about the pe class.
PEs are hard to play, need lots of pracitse - that's the reason why there's so little good PEs around. Dont think they need a boost in power, rather something like additional tools (to compensate stealth loss due to whiners parade) - jetpacks or whatever.
Monks should be reworked & nerfed & tweaked & ppus removed...
im not whining to give PEs stealth back, im just saying they need a new item cause the way it is now, PEs really need a boost of any sort.
i bet that half the players who log on, they first log a monk, or a tank.
im not whining to give PEs stealth back, im just saying they need a new item cause the way it is now, PEs really need a boost of any sort.
yes i agree, PE need something, whether be it the stealth or another (useful) tool, jetpack for example.
i bet that half the players who log on, they first log a monk, or a tank
I have 4 spies.
If they changed stealth so that you can still target them even though you cant see them then I would say that PE's should get it back.
Asurmen Spec Op
03-02-05, 02:05
Ok so we hear alot from PE's complaining about their weakness etc blah blah,
and it is stated that Pe's strength is their visility right?
So perhaps PE's should have MC, and HC PA? unless that's going to over power them.
Also I though "how come spies don't have drone PA?"
So lets say the reason for this is they'd be too powerful and it'd be unfair, then how about just creating a sort of neutral PA instead of giving extra HC or MC or RCL they give some agility or atheltics or endurance? maybe some Transport.
Thus a HC pe would have a reason to wear PA again because it doesnt require high dex, maybe it requires high strength so they can't be a rifler and use it.
Just a though.... I think they should but 1: with enough drugs to use POT I have way capped it
2: if you say PEs are weak you just suck
Jesterthegreat
03-02-05, 02:07
I think they should but 1: with enough drugs to use POT I have way capped it
2: if you say PEs are weak you just suck
1. a PE can cap PoT and gun all vehicles i think...
2. agreed.
Asurmen Spec Op
03-02-05, 02:09
1. a PE can cap PoT and gun all vehicles i think...
2. agreed. 1: I dont know I dont have a hybrid guy yet, working on it though. to lazy
2: tis a first eh jester ;)
2: if you say PEs are weak you just suck
Well if your trying to fight ANYONE with a ppu you are fucked. they can out heal any damage you do so its 100% useless to use a PE.
In a 1v1 a PE is perfectly balanced.
Also I though "how come spies don't have drone PA?"
Others have ignored this comment...I haven't.
The answer is no...Callash has already said that there will no PA for droners...you are meant to be hidden, but vunrable when found also you have more than enough imp bonuses etc that were given instead of PA.
Sorry theres no reason for droners to have a droner PA ever.
Remove holy shelter/deflector and bam... pe's are balanced again.
Clownst0pper
03-02-05, 02:26
PEs are not 'weak', people that argue that don't realise how they fit into the rest of PvP.
The problem is the effects PPUs have on other runners.
The proportional changes that a ppu makes to an apu or tank is far far far in excess of that which the PE receives.
Outside the team dynamic, PEs, tanks and APUs are actually quite well balanced.
//edit, sorry if that sounded totally arrogant.
Sorry dribble but PE's are 'weak' incredibly. Without there stealth devices now their such easy pickings. Sure they might be able to use any gun in the game, but they dont do it better than spys, nor do they contribute anything in comparison to an OP war.
The only thing they contribute is towards a players kill count.
Sorry dribble but PE's are 'weak' incredibly. Without there stealth devices now their such easy pickings. Sure they might be able to use any gun in the game, but they dont do it better than spys, nor do they contribute anything in comparison to an OP war.
The only thing they contribute is towards a players kill count.
Well I wouldn't go that far, I can normaly win a 2v1 on my PE so its not that bad. But again if there is a ppu then you might as well just /set kill_self 1
Jesterthegreat
03-02-05, 02:29
Sorry dribble but PE's are 'weak' incredibly. Without there stealth devices now their such easy pickings. Sure they might be able to use any gun in the game, but they dont do it better than spys, nor do they contribute anything in comparison to an OP war.
The only thing they contribute is towards a players kill count.
you set up a spy for combat well im told. you should know that with a good setup itspossible.
PE's can get a good setup and they can beat any class solo bar blessed hybs.
hell my HC PE has killed a hyb or 2 aswell 8|
OP wars i agree they arent much use.
Clownst0pper
03-02-05, 02:35
you set up a spy for combat well im told. you should know that with a good setup itspossible.
PE's can get a good setup and they can beat any class solo bar blessed hybs.
hell my HC PE has killed a hyb or 2 aswell 8|
OP wars i agree they arent much use.
Sure, my spy is easily my best character, and he is pushed to the limits of his class.
However, I have stealth at the end of the day. It is the biggest addition to the class, I know if I am loosing I can leave and rethink, If I have to scout or hack I can stealth in.
A PE has to potter about on foot everywhere, 4 hits from a HL to the legs and he is dead.
Sure a PE can kill "any" class, apart from a PPU (unless the PPU is 0/2 or AFK or just plain shit) But to kill just about any class requires alot of hard work.
Low tech PE? Shit dmg output, nice con.
High tech PE? Good dmg output, spy con, no stealth.
their only use in OP wars is to possibly hack, and even spys do that better now hack nets arrived.
[edit]
My old PE's setup below, Id be lying if i said it wasnt possible to push a PE's con and DMG out put. But regardless of con, there limitations are obvious
Jesterthegreat
03-02-05, 02:38
Sure, my spy is easily my best character, and he is pushed to the limits of his class.
However, I have stealth at the end of the day. It is the biggest addition to the class, I know if I am loosing I can leave and rethink, If I have to scout or hack I can stealth in.
A PE has to potter about on foot everywhere, 4 hits from a HL to the legs and he is dead.
Sure a PE can kill "any" class, apart from a PPU (unless the PPU is 0/2 or AFK or just plain shit) But to kill just about any class requires alot of hard work.
Low tech PE? Shit dmg output, nice con.
High tech PE? Good dmg output, spy con, no stealth.
their only use in OP wars is to possibly hack, and even spys do that better now hack nets arrived.
spy con isnt a bad thing...
:edi: spy defence isnt a bad thing :p
Clownst0pper
03-02-05, 02:40
spy con isnt a bad thing...
:edi: spy defence isnt a bad thing :p
admitadly yes. But why settle for spy con on a PE trying to max out your damage using high end TL rares.
When you could be a spy, stealth, have equal con, and easily cap any weapon in the game, alongside capping Hacking.
Its silly.
PEs = Muton dressed as...er Spys :p
Asurmen Spec Op
03-02-05, 02:58
Well I wouldn't go that far, I can normaly win a 2v1 on my PE so its not that bad. But again if there is a ppu then you might as well just /set kill_self 1 tell me what class isnt fucked when going agaisnt some one with a ppu?
only a PPU with a bat and alot of time :P
Clownst0pper
03-02-05, 03:02
tell me what class isnt fucked when going agaisnt some one with a ppu?
only a PPU with a bat and alot of time :P
melee tank + tl3 heal on the <insert class> and there going down.. :p
tell me what class isnt fucked when going agaisnt some one with a ppu?
only a PPU with a bat and alot of time :P
My old APU hybrid could take out almost anyone with a ppu (if only one fighter was there) and when I usto play my friends 2 drug pistol spy you can stealth up get a noob heal and fucking destroy him with slasher/exe.
Clownst0pper
03-02-05, 03:03
My old APU hybrid could take out almost anyone with a ppu (if only one fighter was there) and when I usto play my friends 2 drug pistol spy you can stealth up get a noob heal and fucking destroy him with slasher/exe.
100% agree :D
man I need to make a fucking spy now :(. I miss playing that shit.
Asurmen Spec Op
03-02-05, 03:56
man I need to make a fucking spy now :(. I miss playing that shit. dont do it your to good for stealthwhoring
dont do it your to good for stealthwhoring
You dont have to stealth whore to be a good spy (with drugs that is).
Bugs Gunny
03-02-05, 10:41
Redid the con setup on my 3 drug HC pe and i must say.... it kills spies, tanks etc...
Fought a energy halo hybrid at mb, resulting in a stalemate.
It's the damageboost that does in the enemy, and the ability to noobheal, noobshelter.
Plus driving, gunning and repairing a rhino, while still being fast like the wind, and hacking all belts is fun to say the least.
Next test will be a drugged up HC pe using CS.
Bugs Gunny
03-02-05, 14:05
Here's my setup with one drug. I use a redflash for more speed and poison resist drugs for when there's a poisonuser around.
-----------Intelligence-----------
Max Skill: 60
Current: 55 -5
Skill: Hacking = 103 +5
Skill: Barter = 0 -13
Skill: PSI Use = 0 -20
Skill: Weapon Lore = 95 +8
Skill: Construction = 0 +0
Skill: Research = 0 +0
Skill: Implant = 4 +4
Skill: Willpower = 0 +0
-----------Strength-----------
Max Skill: 60
Current: 86 +26
Skill: Melee Combat = 36 +36
Skill: Heavy Combat = 180 +64
Skill: Transport = 79 +19
Skill: Resist Force = 33 +33
-----------Constitution-----------
Max Skill: 65
Current: 68 +3
Skill: Athletics = 15 +15
Skill: Body Health = 149 +38
Skill: Endurance = 33 +33
Skill: Resist Fire = 0 +0
Skill: Resist Energy = 50 +0
Skill: Resist X-Ray = 50 +10
Skill: Resist Poison = 30 +30
-----------Dexterity-----------
Max Skill: 80
Current: 77 -3
Skill: Pistol Combat = 0 +0
Skill: Rifle Combat = 0 -8
Skill: HighTech Combat = 76 +4
Skill: Vehicle Use = 73 +0
Skill: Agility = 144 +32
Skill: Repair = 0 +0
Skill: Recycle = 38 +0
Skill: Remote Control = 0 +0
-----------PSI-----------
Max Skill: 35
Current: 35 +0
Skill: Passive PSI Use = 77 +0
Skill: Agressive PSI Use = 0 +0
Skill: Mental Steadiness = 43 +0
Skill: PSI Power = 23 +0
Skill: Resist PSI = 0 +0
-------Character Inventory-------
Slot: Helmet - Inquisition Helmet 4
Influences: FIR: 43 PRC: 18 FOR: 16
Slot: Vest - Duranit Armorvest 4
Influences: PRC: 26 FOR: 25 ENR: 23
Slot: Belt - Medium Deflector Belt
Influences: DEFL: 30 FOR: 24 PRC: 10 ENR: 10 XRR: 9
Slot: Trousers - Inquisition Trousers 4
Influences: FOR: 16 PRC: 18 FIR: 42
Slot: Boots - Heavy Duranium Boots
Influences: FOR: 23 PRC: 28 ENR: 30
Slot: Brain Chip - BioTech (M.O.V.E.O.N) CPU
Influences: STR: 3 CON: 3 M-C: 6 H-C: 6 TRA: 6 FOR: 8 HLT: 18
Slot: Brain Chip - Berserk Chip 2
Influences: M-C: 10 STR: 3 INT: -2 BRT: -5
Slot: Brain Chip - Berserk Chip 3
Influences: M-C: 15 STR: 5 INT: -3 BRT: -8
Slot: Brain Chip - Marine's CPU
Influences: STR: 5 CON: 5 M-C: 5 H-C: 5 TRA: 5 FOR: 10 HLT: 15
Slot: Eye - Heavy CombatEye 3
Influences: H-C: 15 WEP: 8 M-C: -8 R-C: -8
Slot: Heart - Filter Heart 2
Influences: POR: 15 XRR: 10 CON: -5
Slot: Glove - Crahn Power Gauntlet
Influences: None
Slot: Spine - Harden Backbone 3
Influences: H-C: 8 TRA: 8 STR: 5 DEX: -3 AGL: -10
Slot: Headbone - Biotech AntiGamma Headbone
Influences: XRR: 17 PRC: 10
Slot: Chest - Bat Queen Chest Enforcment
Influences: END: 30 FOR: 20
Slot: Arm - Biotech AntiGamma Arm Enforcement
Influences: M-C: 8 XRR: 9
Slot: Leg - Experimental Leg Enforcement
Influences: ATL: 15 FOR: 13
Slot: Foot - Experimental Foot Enforcement
Influences: AGL: 14 FOR: 4
Slot: Shelter - Shelter
Influences: SHEL: 35
Slot: Deflector - Blessed Deflector
Influences: DEFL: 45
Slot: Combat - Heavy Combat Booster 1
Influences: H-C: 5 T-C: 4 END: 3
Slot: Support - Spy Booster 1
Influences: HCK: 5 IMP: 4 AGL: 3
Slot: Resist - Basic Resist Booster 2
Influences: FOR: 15 HLT: 15 POR: 15
Slot: Drug - Beast
Influences: STR: 5 H-C: 25 AGL: 25 HLT: -10
---------------------------------
Jesterthegreat
04-02-05, 23:22
only badthing about that skillmanager is the export as text doesnt export your overall resists
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