Is it really wrong to use brains? [Archive]

hegemon

17-01-05, 19:54

I have a question regarding the social norms and etiquette in pvp. Is it really that bad and wrong to use ones head in pvp?

Very often, when I do something smart in pvp, or outmaneuver some enemy, I get yelled at. Somehow I get the impression that everyone expects every fight to be a clean duel where both sides get a minute to buff up, prepare, eat drugs, relog to remove drug flash, etc, etc. before going into a fight that must be the classic dance until one person dies. Using your head seems to be criminal.

I've gotten yelled at because I waited until a ppus buffs ran out before starting to shoot (advice: just look for the red damage numbers above his head for apparently no reason).
I've gotten yelled at because: "You used some piercing rifle instead of the healing light you always use, and I changed armor to protect against fire and energy."
Of course I get yelled at because I actually use one of the few advantages a spy has: stealth.
I've gotten yelled at because I managed to run away when surrounded by an army and then killed a few of them from long distance.
I've gotten yelled at because I now more or less know the range of an FA and stealth before the apu has a chance to kill me in one click.

Can't people accept the simple fact that if they died, something was wrong with their behavior. It's not my fault that I managed to kill you, it's your fault that you allowed yourself to be killed. And it doesn't matter if it was while you were sitting at the toilet, shopping, talking, being noob buffed, logging in, logging out, had SI, had bad SL (that one is hilarious "Don't kill me! I have bad SL"), were lagged, picking their nose, crashed, distracted (noob droners shooting harmless rockets on a victim while you prepare the kill are great), making a deal, had a drug flash, or simply wasn't paying the correct amount of attention. You died, I didn't.

I'd like to quote a conversation from Neal Stephensons book "Cryptonomicon" (warmly recommended, read it):
- Haven't you guys figured out yet that banzai charges DON'T FUCKING WORK?
- All of the people who learned that were killed in banzai charges.

Zeres

17-01-05, 20:14

I've gotten yelled at because: "You used some piercing rifle instead of the healing light you always use, and I changed armor to protect against fire and energy."

:lol:

That one is my favourite!!! :)

Serpent

17-01-05, 20:15

whats a brain ?

im a tank.

[/rp]

John.nl

17-01-05, 20:16

Every attempt to dish an insult is in fact a compliment. What fun would it be if the guy that you killed would just shrug and move on?

Actually I enjoy the shittalk :)

Notorious Fish

17-01-05, 20:20

you still alive simple as that. There is no hidden factor. Your alive they are not. Use or head or not. Doesnt matter. More powah to ya.

Genty

17-01-05, 20:22

People with brains scare people. They feel intimidated. Thats why people react as they do. The only way they know how.

Original monk

17-01-05, 20:38

I'd like to quote a conversation from Neal Stephensons book "Cryptonomicon" (warmly recommended, read it):
- Haven't you guys figured out yet that banzai charges DON'T FUCKING WORK?
- All of the people who learned that were killed in banzai charges.

would make a nice signature ..

now next time you fight please be a littlebit more predictable mmkay, also a littlebit slower, less off the dodging and diving, a low tl or storebought weapon, gimped stats (try some recycle & vehicule, some hack or poke maybe), 255 poisonresist and ffcourse standing still; constantly looking around with mouse 1 like the random nib we all know a few examples of ...and... tadaa ! you will be lots more appreciated by youre enemy's and who knows they can turn out to be good friends :)

bam, problem solved

Dribble Joy

17-01-05, 21:18

I loathe smack talk, it's the game's worst feature, nothing drives people away more than anything else.
People have been forced out of clans, off servers, out of game and even had death threats sent to them over stuff like this.

I don't engage in it, I ignore people who use it against me, and I (whenever possible) tell people to stop it.
It serves no purpose that benefits anyone overall.

If I am killed in a manner that I find 'unacceptable' or cowardly, such as the use of para (and/or ppus in cirtain situations), I don't grumble or start calling people cunts, I say nothing.

If I loose due to my own stupidity or lack of attention, then I accept that, nothing goes out towards my killer, and I am only angry at my self.

Eg. Me and about 4 other people in Skulls, only one other is capped, only one is a tank, no APUs and no PPUs, attack an FF OP.
They have 3 people on when we first hack, but as often happens, they are on alts or not online, waiting for people to attack.
A tank and 2 ppus come through the UG.
The tank is shit, can't hit for crap, but I am paraed and I can't do a thing. I and the rest of us die in about 3 mins tops.

I don't whine about any underhand tactics, or even the ppus or the para.
I asked if they could not hack the OP just yet, as Skulls has no money, and we desperately need cassh for the new clan apt.
I think they left it about 10 mins.

NexusPlexus

17-01-05, 22:02

...well theres smack talk thats abusive and profane, and theres smacktalk thats just embarassing.

i just luurve the latter when someone botches up a hit on me :lol:
its so much more rewarding when someone messes up an attempted killing and i can ask 'em if they remembered to load the weapon first before pulling the trigger :p

Koshinn

17-01-05, 22:05

people get sore when they lose.

Original monk

17-01-05, 22:56

after i DMed the one that killed me to tell em my opinion it mostly ends up in a fun and intresting conversation :/ i dunno what it is lol, lot of people insist to bring me the item back they looted of me o.O even after i told em they deserved it fair and square cause for example it was a nice tactical kill they made ..

the things ya really dont wonna loose ya yust dont carry in a non safeslot you see .. really, i prefered the times that an item yust dropped out of you, no belt no nothing :) sucky for the times you crash and relog and end up falling from 1000 meters till ya end up dead on a cliff, youre nice 5 slotter lying right next to you hehe

this reminds me of retail when rares yust arrived, and my dead (in that time) pistolerspy lying on the highest cliff in the area with next to em this shiney new multislotted beam of hell 8|

(this in a time a slasher didnt exist, the slasher has been derrived from the disruptor, the disruptor is a regular laserrifle like healing light with an intermitting beam like the intermitting-beam drones, about the healing light i gotta tell that no-one ever used em .. everyone said they sucked .. but they didnt :P especially to snipe tanks, very dirty cause ya cant see the beam .. still the weapon was very powerfull, it was after the giant boost in damage they gave it after a patch that it became a more standarized weapon, the boost overpowerd the weapon a bit tough, i dont mind it, but it did :) )

Tostino

17-01-05, 23:08

people get sore when they lose.
OMG please tell me your back!!

giga191

17-01-05, 23:32

Using your head as a weapon is surely an exploit. Unless you have a really soft head

Dan Szeen

17-01-05, 23:45

Some people just can't 'take it' :) I've seen this a lot since I have been here and have been threatened with KOS on numerous clans because I killed someones alt's brothers sisters uncle who knew their fifth cousins friend and he wasn't fully buffed and ready.

After these events I just don't care. I figure, some people have class and others have none.

naimex

17-01-05, 23:53

I have a question regarding the social norms and etiquette in pvp. Is it really that bad and wrong to use ones head in pvp?

Not really... it´s called "Experimental Headbone" for a reason...

Very often, when I do something smart in pvp, or outmaneuver some enemy, I get yelled at.

...

Somehow I get the impression that everyone expects every fight to be a clean duel where both sides get a minute to buff up, prepare, eat drugs, relog to remove drug flash, etc, etc. before going into a fight that must be the classic dance until one person dies.

It´s a matter of principles, I myself only really do duels.. so of course i expect a clean fight..

But in war there are no rules.

Using your head seems to be criminal.

Should be.. BAN CREATIVE THINKING !!!

I've gotten yelled at because I waited until a ppus buffs ran out before starting to shoot (advice: just look for the red damage numbers above his head for apparently no reason).

Right... I´m usually dead before that happens...

I've gotten yelled at because: "You used some piercing rifle instead of the healing light you always use, and I changed armor to protect against fire and energy."

DAMN YOUR NON COOKIE CUTTER SETUP !!!!

Of course I get yelled at because I actually use one of the few advantages a spy has: stealth.

Bwahahahaha.. Stealth noob.. :p nah stealth is ok.. cowardish but ok.

I've gotten yelled at because I managed to run away when surrounded by an army and then killed a few of them from long distance.

Where is your honor ?

Do it right, Stay and fight.

I've gotten yelled at because I now more or less know the range of an FA and stealth before the apu has a chance to kill me in one click.

You do ? what is it ? I always get nailed by it..

Can't people accept the simple fact that if they died, something was wrong with their behavior. It's not my fault that I managed to kill you, it's your fault that you allowed yourself to be killed. And it doesn't matter if it was while you were sitting at the toilet, shopping, talking, being noob buffed, logging in, logging out, had SI, had bad SL (that one is hilarious "Don't kill me! I have bad SL"), were lagged, picking their nose, crashed, distracted (noob droners shooting harmless rockets on a victim while you prepare the kill are great), making a deal, had a drug flash, or simply wasn't paying the correct amount of attention. You died, I didn't.

... so your a saint stop rubbing our noses in it. Jesus.

I'd like to quote a conversation from Neal Stephensons book "Cryptonomicon" (warmly recommended, read it):
- Haven't you guys figured out yet that banzai charges DON'T FUCKING WORK?
- All of the people who learned that were killed in banzai charges.

ok... fine... so you read books..

WTF is a banzai charge?

it´s all a matter of perception... and I don´t like yours.

You feel better than the rest of us..

SO WHAT IF YOU ARE !

Atleast have the decency to be a good sport about it.

*goes back to his pibe*

Jesterthegreat

18-01-05, 00:27

ugh... that nasty red kills my eyes

naimex

18-01-05, 02:24

ugh... that nasty red kills my eyes

just took the first color my pointer hit and used it.. to quickly make his writing and my writing differ.

spongeb0b

18-01-05, 03:24

i seem to rememeber taking you out in p2... and you DMing me telling me that when i fired my termi it lagged you up?... somethin like that... either way keep it ingame tbh... the "nc-trade" channel don't belong on the forums ;)

eLcHi

18-01-05, 10:39

I hate getting killed by a Sniper Spy ...

But hey, that`s what they are made for, why complain when someone plays a class as it`s intended to be played

I got a Rifle-Spy myself ... his consetup is kinda like this: 60 athletics, rest bodyhealth

:D

I don`t need a Con-Setup ffs, i got range and 3 stealth-tools

Bugs Gunny

18-01-05, 11:18

What's realy funny is when you just stand still as a hc pe and unload a weapon onto a healing light sniper, and do this each time they come back.

You'll get :"my netcode is borked, you were standing still on my screen"

Even if you don't use a brain you get dm'ed.

J J

18-01-05, 11:55

nah stealth is ok.. cowardish but ok.
haha now this is my favourite ever quote from people. Using stealth is cowardly. What do you think you're doing stealthing away from close up combat with a puny spy? You should stand toe to toe with that gentank so that he can kill you easily and feel better about himself. Never mind that fact that you are a class designed for short bursts of combat using the element of suprise. Next time anyone accuses a spy of being cowardly for using stealth, just think for a second. stop being so cowardly, take off your PA, all you duranium/inqui armour and put away that CS/PoB and if you want to fight toe to toe do so on a roughly even setting ;) Using stealth is not cowardly, as thead starter said, it's using your brain. Yeah they should just stand there and let you kill em and make you feel big, but the ones with half a brain ain't gonna :rolleyes:

Bugs Gunny

18-01-05, 12:11

It's just that people get annoyed by the fact they can't kill a stealther :-)

Actualy it's not too hard, unless they use obliterators.

Tanks: use plasma cannons and aoe, slap on uncapped tl3 heal to track him. Devourer will give him that green puff for while. Melee tanks should use the shocker. a shocked spy is easily trackable.

Apu's: Use FA and follow the fire to the body, or use barrels on the last known location

PPu's: Damageboost, parashock and soulcluster are your friend.

Pe's: no tl3 heal if you cap it, damageboost, soulcluster and plasma weapons (hc pe's see hc tanks)

spies: no tl3 heal if you cap it, aoe drones or FA series drones, plasma pistol or rifles. and stealth yourself.

Guess what the best way to learn these antistealth measures is.... start the game as a stealther sniper yourself :-)

Freaky Fryd

18-01-05, 12:25

I try to avoid smacktalk...but like anyone, it occasionally comes out.
Usually I just send my kill-SMS after they drop, and ignore anything they have to say. I have to send the SMS, just so that there's no doubts on what name to hate...
;)
(I conduct entirely way too many DOY raids... :p)

Some messages I've gotten after the kill:
(basically what they said - not exact wording)

"I was in the middle of a lom!"
Yeah, because that's a good thing to be doing in a non-safezone.

"I was overweight & couldn't move!"
Had this one told to me by an anti-city guy that was at the gogo right outside TG HQ...maybe it was too much effort to go 50 feet to the safe-zone before hitting a gogo...but I at least thanked him for the artifact CS I got from his belt...
;)

"I'm a tradeskiller!"
Right...forgot I was supposed to interview people on their skill choices before shooting

"I'm only _/_ @$$hole! n00b killer!" (insert single digit numbers for rank)
I'm sick of people whining about that...
Look at my images attached to this posting for an example on how close you sometimes have to be just to see the rank (that person was LE'd - but I would have dropped them long before seeing their rank if they hadn't been)
There's a difference of one step between the screenshots, and look how close I was! Seeing my normal combat-starting range is at least 15-20 in-game feet, I rarely see ranks until I'm pretty much touching the person.

"stop stealthing! why don't you stay & fight instead of being a wuss!?"
This one is just shocking to hear when I'm outnumbered (I've heard it when there was upwards of 5 and 6 people in a group chasing me - including a ppu)
Or when the tank that says that won't stop zoning into a sidestreet/watercleaning when you get him down to under half health...
:lol:

I got this one yesterday:
"What did you expect? An unbuffed apu against a buffed spy"
Uh...duh? I expected to have to stealth away because he'd kick my ass (seriously)
This APU was high level, and I was using my own buffs. If we were equally skilled, he should beat me by a long shot...or am I missing something here?
(It was toe-to-toe - no stealthing - one shot battle with no retreats - and I have a reticle!)

"you are a dick cheese"
I had to include that one here, just because it was so unexpected when I heard it that I couldn't stop laughing...
:lol:
Although, I have yet to hear an excuse as funny as the "wrong armor" one that Hegemon got! That's quality!
:D

I got a Rifle-Spy myself ... his consetup is kinda like this: 60 athletics, rest bodyhealth
:D
I don`t need a Con-Setup ffs, i got range and 3 stealth-tools

If you're going to go that route, I recommend boosting your ath to 70 or 80 so that you can cover a lot more ground before your stealth runs. Back in NC1, with my kami chip in (I was up to 90 ath and 125 agl for a while), I would snipe people...and of course, they'd charge my location. Using stealth 2, I would stealth, run through them and end up where they were just standing (or farther away) and snipe them while they searched the location they last saw me in.
It really confused some people...especially when I did that 4 or 5 times between the same 2 locations.

Trust me...boost your ath for a while and see what you think
:D

Original monk

18-01-05, 12:30

as an apu or hybrid i noticed that the (holy)multilightningspell does serieus damage to stealthers :) gotta be carefull in the city to not hit copbots/guards or others people tough .. maybe the holy multi-energybolt does the same, havent tried that last one actually ..

killing a good stealther that knows to keep he's distance is hard yah, but not impossible :) a great advantage (disadvantage for the sniper) is that the zone's yust dont go further then 500 meters and other classes can get that same range also :)

the moment you can start tracking em from closeby with heals and dot spells the sniperspy better can be very carefull for plasma :)

zii

18-01-05, 14:02

Simply put, a bad workman blames his tools.

Scaramanga

20-02-05, 03:26

So this is what i have to look forward to when i learn how to aim?

superfresh

20-02-05, 13:39

Everyone is playing by the same rules.

Over time the rules are getting widdled away though, so rather than all the extras that add dimension to PvP, you will have something more like Atari's "Combat".

And there's no more etiquette in NC than an unsupervised kindergarten classroom.

Make a point of finding them and shooting them again.

MISS WHIP

21-02-05, 16:14

[QUOTE=Freaky Fryd]

"I was in the middle of a lom!"
Yeah, because that's a good thing to be doing in a non-safezone.

lol sounds like me when im in nc,i make it a on my list of things do do while in nc to check the back of the medi centre in P1 for lomming victims sitting on the benches.
Best of all they are usually AFK so they lie on the floor for another 5 minutes after you killed them and they have no idea who did it.

"I'm a tradeskiller!"
Right...forgot I was supposed to interview people on their skill choices before shooting

I actually target the tradeskillers first if i can find one in nc,always funny to see 5 people standing around and looking at a dead poker/rst/cst on the floor.

"I'm only _/_ @$$hole! n00b killer!" (insert single digit numbers for rank)
I'm sick of people whining about that...
Look at my images attached to this posting for an example on how close you sometimes have to be just to see the rank (that person was LE'd - but I would have dropped them long before seeing their rank if they hadn't been)
There's a difference of one step between the screenshots, and look how close I was! Seeing my normal combat-starting range is at least 15-20 in-game feet, I rarely see ranks until I'm pretty much touching the person.

Ok if possible i dont kill noobs but once again same problem you have got,i cannot see there rank from a distance so if i can target them ill shoot and only when the first shot does 150 damage and they are already dead to i realise they are a noob :angel:

"stop stealthing! why don't you stay & fight instead of being a wuss!?"
This one is just shocking to hear when I'm outnumbered (I've heard it when there was upwards of 5 and 6 people in a group chasing me - including a ppu)
Or when the tank that says that won't stop zoning into a sidestreet/watercleaning when you get him down to under half health...
:lol:

I had the same thing yesterday on my spy with 4 tanks/ 2 PPU'S and an APU chasing me around and calling me a wuss because i un-stealth and take a few pot shots and re-stealth.
Not that i could kill anyone with 2 PPU'S buffing everything in sight but i think i pissed them off because they could not kill me.btw anti para drugs is your friend.

Freaky Fryd

21-02-05, 16:35

ALLLLLLLL drugs are your friends...it's the hangover that's the enemy...
;)

I actually only take one drug, aside from the anti- drugs. I usually take
10 of each along, with more in the gogo...

As for wondering who killed them, that's why I always send the same little DM after...
:lol:

Crest

21-02-05, 17:33

"stop stealthing! why don't you stay & fight instead of being a wuss!?"
This one is just shocking to hear when I'm outnumbered (I've heard it when there was upwards of 5 and 6 people in a group chasing me - including a ppu)
Or when the tank that says that won't stop zoning into a sidestreet/watercleaning when you get him down to under half health...
:lol:

I had the same thing yesterday on my spy with 4 tanks/ 2 PPU'S and an APU chasing me around and calling me a wuss because i un-stealth and take a few pot shots and re-stealth.
Not that i could kill anyone with 2 PPU'S buffing everything in sight but i think i pissed them off because they could not kill me.btw anti para drugs is your friend.

Thatone was funny, the stealthing thing.... There a combat hover, and he keeps going back (PE) to his PPU for buffs, and then bitches cause I stealth with my spy.....

Or a apu who says lets go one on one, so I stealth get out of range, and then shoot him (I am a rifle spy after all).

Guys who bitch cause I use stealth should know that stealth is very much part of a spies arsenal, so a spy who does not stealth s like a PPU who does not buff. Without them you are dead, with them you can breath easy.

Plus you add the stealth bug, so you hit stealth and everyone can still see you except you cant do anythig include stealth :)

Clever fighting is not pumping drugs, and running in close ...
Clever fight is when you use your tools to give you the best advantage, like distance for rifle, stretching your drone distance so its harder to find ..... Having a super quick APU that beats the net code

Xer

21-02-05, 18:35

I'm liking the way this is becoming a pro-stealth thread :D not that i argue about such things, it's petty squabbles that dont make sense most of the time, but what Crest just said is spot on, stealth is a part of a spies arsenal.
For the thread started, yeah it is so wrong to use your brain in this game, if you do then you're working on another level to a good 70% of the population.. and people just dont like that :) When i get abuse because i kill someone when it was'nt expected, caught them off guard, or just plain made them look like a fool (killing with a redeemer in close combat can reeeeally piss people off) i just stick them on ignore straight away, if they're the type of person who bitches like "LOL NICE 1 FOR KILLING ME ON HALF HEALTH FUCKWITNUT OMG I KILL YOU IF YOU DO IT AGAIN" then they're just not worth listening to at all.. especially when they were clearly on more than half health ;) i'd say most of the people on my ignore list are about 12 anyway.. not the crowd i like to mix with in many cases, they dont like people using their brains.

Koshinn

22-02-05, 02:02

Here's one I get all the time.

"Fucking overpowered hybrid."

Actually a group of CM spies ( 3 I think ) attacked me while I was hunting warbots with my FA. Since I had FA out I used it and dropped two of them. They started saying the above and I actually stopped to laugh. They said I'm overpowered because I'm killing them in like 3 hits and I don't die in 5 shots like APUs do. Not my fault they attacked me while I had fire apoc as my only weapon... I mean it is like the anti-spy, but still.

Crest

22-02-05, 12:05

My fav was when i killed a runner (this happens often) and he DMS me saying that I am KOS for killing a xyz runner, normally my reaction is ... who is XYZ, then he says its a anti city clan, and since i am anti city I would not normally kill them, but hey what you want me to do ...

Next time I will dm the poor guy and say - Are you an anti city char doing an epic, cause I have a lock on you and about to kill you .....

READ IS DEAD.......

I like A certain dronners title 'IF this is red to you ... RUN'
I agine seing that on an enemy drone, by the time you read it you are dead

5150

22-02-05, 13:19

There are always going to be 2 sides to this coin

In the instance where a higher ranked runner attacks a significantly lower ranked runner (a.k.a newbie killing) the lower runner can justifiably bitch that he stood no chance and its just a shame that the higher runner has to stoop that low to get his kicks

Case in point - I remember back in NC1 I took my LE out to do the DRE Epic (so I was < rank 30) and went into PP3 looking for a BD runner to try and kill (I should point out that I dont play NC to PvP) and walked right into a capped TG runner who killed me in 3 hits. I tried to run the minute I saw he was red to me but he killed me just as I got back into PP2. There was no point bitching at him though, if hes low enough to attack someone who doesnt stand a chance the chances of having a reasoned conversation with him are very slim......

If you get caught offguard or are just outclassed by a better fighter then I'd agree that would be your own problem - some people are sore losers though!

Original monk

22-02-05, 13:32

i log in on my newbie repperchar /35 with no weapons at all ... yust a reptool, the char doesnt even have any combatskills :)

now before i even see whats around me i get 5 HLhits or sumthing and bam ... dead ...

i didnt even see who killed me so fast hehe, fun thing is the person emself got guilth and appologized about 5 minutes laterz .. asking if he could rep or res for me lol

never seen that in my life :)

i kindly thanked for he's service and told em he allready done enough for me, he directed me you see :) (before i didnt know who it was hehe)

last laugh is ALWAYS the best laugh :)

Jesterthegreat

22-02-05, 13:40

In the instance where a higher ranked runner attacks a significantly lower ranked runner (a.k.a newbie killing) the lower runner can justifiably bitch that he stood no chance and its just a shame that the higher runner has to stoop that low to get his kicks

always rememer the range you have to get to to see the rank. i try not to kill newbies, but it happens

Mighty Max

22-02-05, 13:52

always rememer the range you have to get to to see the rank. i try not to kill newbies, but it happens

Yeah thats right. Anyhow beeing laid by a capped char while tagging the GRs with a lowb is frustrating. Espacially if it happened the 3rd time no matter which GR you go for, it is easy to let your frustration come out in some nasty words ...

And as long as there are ppl out there who think everything is ok to do cuz they canb do it, the reputation of a honorable pvper is pretty hard to reach.

As of an example:
How often have i seen a GR camping of a /x. I mean sure, he can use another GR and sure it aint clever of him, but hey, dont tell me after the 3rd time you didnt know he is only a one digit.

Good thing is that less and less noobs get told they have to drop the LE.

Crest

22-02-05, 15:53

always rememer the range you have to get to to see the rank. i try not to kill newbies, but it happens

Any character who is clanned should be expected to be shot. I used to use PA's as a indicator, if you got a PA on your high enough to die, but then hybrids dont wear PA's and I aint asking questions....

If the runner is in a danger area (I 06, DRT, Battledome) where the elements will probablywaste him (Spider bot) does so at own risk. Removing an LE tells the world, I am a big boy now, all grown up and ready to live life.

I try not to kill noobs, I even pick up tags and check them, and once I know they are noobish I will not kill them ....

then you have some noob twat like at DRT who was anti city (as I am) and I launch a drone and shoot some pro city tank ... this guy moves in fron of my drone and dies (0/7) and then GR's back ... at first I thought it was a mistake, so i change the angle, he moves in fron again ... this occured a few more time before tank died, then just killed the twat a few more times to make sure his SI was high.

I voiced some abuse at him, and left .....

hegemonic

22-02-05, 22:23

Great post heg :)

hegemon

22-03-05, 06:28

Sorry to be necrothreading, but a funny thing happened to me today that has something to do with the original post and I wanted to share the amusement. I was doing the Crahn epic on my new ppu with rank 50/43. Only blessed spells and some ad-hoc con setup that's only there for leveling. I'm running up through Pepper park 3 finishing the last epic mission when suddenly I see that something is almost killing me. Heal, buff up and I see that a nearly capped tank is trying to burn me down with a devourer (later I realized that I didn't even have my armor on). By running around like a madman and healing I managed to survive and realize that as long as I'm not running in a straight line, he can't kill me, because obviously the only thing he knew how to do was to pull the trigger hoping to hit me by accident. So I decide to run to the Crahn church in Outzone since I was going there anyway for the epic. The guy follows me all the way, though I have to wait a few times so that he doesn't get lost, straight into the church that's filled with guards (even though the guards are hostile to him). I run around and finally after a long time the guards kill him.

Of course, just a few seconds later I get the DM about me being a noob and not standing there to die, but doing the unmanly thing of dodging his fire and cowardly ignoring his flamethrower and how dumb I was to use the surroundings to kill him. He died because he followed a 20 levels lower, non-agressive character without armor into a place that would definitely kill him. And somehow I'm the stupid noob?

LiL T

22-03-05, 07:15

Kallima

22-03-05, 08:35

trigger hurt

22-03-05, 09:45

haha Toxic told me an intresting story of what he did on my PE Xecutioner

imagine..

Military Base.. 2 HL spies and a melee tank. Toxic won with full health and they called him a hacker..tis beautiful no? :D

I'd beleive that if I didn't know toxic was shit. Yeah, shit. T-Total Shit.

So if he did pull that one off, I'd hate to imagine how shit those 3 guys are.

Original monk

22-03-05, 10:13

I'd beleive that if I didn't know toxic was shit. Yeah, shit. T-Total Shit.

So if he did pull that one off, I'd hate to imagine how shit those 3 guys are.

probably it was that certain person exagurating a bit :) its funny sumtimes how 1 /40 char can grow out to be 3 capped tanks/monks/ .. fill in :)

LiL T

22-03-05, 11:56

Seven

22-03-05, 17:38

just took the first color my pointer hit and used it.. to quickly make his writing and my writing differ.

It just made me skip over your post.

naimex

22-03-05, 20:09

It just made me skip over your post.

well thats your own decision, if you decide not to read what i have to contribute to this thread.

i cant force you to read what i write anymore than you can force others to read what you write.

its the way it is.

Kallima

23-03-05, 00:04

pfft is that all ^^ ?

lol the best ive ever done was at the beginning of NC2..
Op fight at Yutano.. DarK vs some Proto clan

me (ppu: Snipes) & Tyrant were the only ones left vs like 12 of them and tyrant was running around on top of the buildings sexing them and he died.. i was trying to run around and rez for about 12 minutes keeping my ass alive vs 4 APUs, neverending Para and speedgats :p

...then i GRed out :lol:

Seven

23-03-05, 01:44

well thats your own decision, if you decide not to read what i have to contribute to this thread.

i cant force you to read what i write anymore than you can force others to read what you write.

its the way it is.

It wasn't the content, it was the color that made my eyes hurt. :wtf:

naimex

23-03-05, 02:02

It wasn't the content, it was the color that made my eyes hurt. :wtf:

well, the red part was just what he wrote...

eprodigy

23-03-05, 03:56

Jesterthegreat

23-03-05, 09:48

whats the difference between this and zerging, or UG syncing, or safe zone whoring, etc... well those things are "smart" to do, because you'll be the one alive, and they wont.. somethings are smart, some things are cheap

whats the difference between this and exploiting, cheating or hacking?

would improve your chances in a fight... is that a smart thing too?

eprodigy

23-03-05, 11:04

well exploits and hacks are against the rules, nothing i said is...

Bugs Gunny

23-03-05, 11:05

Yesterday we had a major laugh on vent, when one of our pistol spies went against an unnnamed TG hybrid. The hybrid had a ppu with him in seconds. Pistol spy noobheals the ppu, almost kills him but the parashockl, db and psi attack 2 got him right before he dropped the ppu.

Afterwards he gets dm's saying next time he should fight fair.....
Hilarious, a blessed hybrid and ppu against one spy trying to outdammage the holy heal while being db'ed and parashocked?

Jesterthegreat

23-03-05, 14:35

heh one of our tanks took out an unnamed TG hyb solo last night :D

hegemon

23-03-05, 15:02

whats the difference between this and zerging, or UG syncing, or safe zone whoring, etc... well those things are "smart" to do, because you'll be the one alive, and they wont.. somethings are smart, some things are cheap

Zerg - v. intr. 1. Slang To use numerary superior force to conquer your opponents. 2. "I don't have any friends."

"Zerg" is just what whiners cry when they realize that they have less friends than their opponent. It's a stupid whine because in all fights one of the sides will have more people. If zerging was against the rules or something like that, the clan with just one member online would hold all OPs (because the attacker may not attack with more than one person, he would never complete the hack).

UG syncing is a smart thing to do too. It's not a problem since the attacker has the upper hand because they can barrel the UG, they see first when people come out and have that extra second to attack people who sync out. All while their hackers are taking down further layers.

Tostino

23-03-05, 16:06

UG syncing is a smart thing to do too. It's not a problem since the attacker has the upper hand because they can barrel the UG, they see first when people come out and have that extra second to attack people who sync out.
Now I would not say that. Somtimes when they come up they dont even show up untill they have one of our guys to half HP (no I dont have bad ping).

Mr Kot

23-03-05, 16:22

I myself have dragged many people to there deaths in BD faction office in pepper park.

Hehe, luring is fun.

I was driving a newb clannie to MB one time on my melee tank. The guy that wanted to tag the rep was only lvl 15 or so, and wouldn't stand a chance. Of course, just before he could tag the rep at the end of a marathon journey, he crashed while zoning just as some FF spy appeared.

I wasn't really looking for a fight or even bothered whether i won or lost, my main concern was getting my noobie friend to the GR safely to tag it and rep the hell out. While i shouted on vent for the guy not to log on again yet until the spy was dead or distracted, i thought i'd lure the spy to the GR room with the MB guards. For about 5 mins, there was the little dance where i poked my head out of the room, just enough to coax him to the bait, while the spy kept stealthing, entering the room to see me and run off again. I knew early on that the first person to lose patience and try tha banzai charge would probably die.

Naturally, i got the DM whining about how i was such a pussy to camp near the guards. I didn't give a shit, i just wanted safe passage for the newb to get the GR. I could have stayed there all night if necessary until the spy got bored and left.....or became impatient. It's a tactic. Sure enough, he lost patience first and ran at me into the GR room with his healing light. Out came my paw of bear and with the help of a guard, he was dead before he could hit his stealth.

The newbie logged on and got the GR. All's well that ends well. Lesson learned? The spy didn't have to run into the GR room, he had a choice. I just showed tremendous patience and the silly spy just got too greedy for a kill.

Good things come to those who wait. :angel:

trigger hurt

23-03-05, 17:09

Zerg - v. intr. 1. Slang To use numerary superior force to conquer your opponents. 2. "I don't have any friends."

"Zerg" is just what whiners cry when they realize that they have less friends than their opponent. It's a stupid whine because in all fights one of the sides will have more people. If zerging was against the rules or something like that, the clan with just one member online would hold all OPs (because the attacker may not attack with more than one person, he would never complete the hack).

UG syncing is a smart thing to do too. It's not a problem since the attacker has the upper hand because they can barrel the UG, they see first when people come out and have that extra second to attack people who sync out. All while their hackers are taking down further layers.

UG syncing is the smart thing to do? No, it's the lame thing to do. Down in the UG, you got holy buffs and probably a friggin army of people just waiting to get a bite of my rifle spy who's only got his own shelter and heal and no ppu stuffed up my butt.

No, it's not the smart thing to do...it's what people who find it hard to lose do to ensure their victory. It's like a 1v1 fight, and you call a ppu to hit you with silent heals. You're not intelligent, you're a lamer, and it's people like you and the other lamers that pushed me over the ledge to cancelling my account.

Xylaz

23-03-05, 17:50

Aside the usual flames, its a simple case here.
I dont really think there's much sense to discuss what and what not is lame and what's honourable or not. Ethic is not a good advisor here.

There are people who want to have a good fight and there are people who want to win. Usually, those 2 types wont go along very well, but that's a life. And life is never fair.

Lachlan

23-03-05, 19:04

UG syncing is the smart thing to do? No, it's the lame thing to do. Down in the UG, you got holy buffs and probably a friggin army of people just waiting to get a bite of my rifle spy who's only got his own shelter and heal and no ppu stuffed up my butt.
Yeah, because armies always phone ahead to the opposing army's general to make sure they bring exactly the same number of people and that no one will have an unfair advantage.

The UG is there for a reason, to give the defending clan a slight advantage. Otherwise, they wouldn't GR straight to the UG. They also don't know what's going on up there until they zone up and you do. In that respect, you have the advantage.

For every whine and "advantage" people claim exists in this game, there are tactics you can use counter them. You just gotta be smarter than your opponent.

Jesterthegreat

23-03-05, 20:20

There are people who want to have a good fight and there are people who want to win.

too true...

people who want a fun fight and people who want a litle bit more of their colour on the map

Lachlan

23-03-05, 20:30

too true...

people who want a fun fight and people who want a litle bit more of their colour on the map
So you can't have both? The map looks pretty skewed towards anti-city who have numbers on their side. Pro-city will have to find creative ways of winning OPs. Owning OPs is, after all, the whole endgame. You can have good fights along the way, but I reject all of the stupid arbitrary rules that people throw out to keep their own side owning OPs in the name of fairness.

If it's not an exploit or a hack, it's a tactic. Scream all you want about how unfair it is, but that's life.

Jesterthegreat

23-03-05, 20:45

So you can't have both? The map looks pretty skewed towards anti-city who have numbers on their side. Pro-city will have to find creative ways of winning OPs. Owning OPs is, after all, the whole endgame. You can have good fights along the way, but I reject all of the stupid arbitrary rules that people throw out to keep their own side owning OPs in the name of fairness.

If it's not an exploit or a hack, it's a tactic. Scream all you want about how unfair it is, but that's life.

we took soliko last night...

4 or 5 of us, FF had 11 on.

this morning it was FF again.

think FF mixed fun with owning the op, or think they just had to have it no matter what?

the only reason i would want an op is to defend it. i like good fights.

now... if a clan has 15 people online, all on active combat char and a 5 man team attacks their op... ff arent going to know to send 5 people. thats fair enough.

however since they sync whore like beasts anyway couldnt they send 5 up at a time (after seeing the attackers numbers)? good fight, and you have the advantage of getting people up top quicker, as well as the UG.

:edit: i have never demanded it stops. i havenever told them to stop. i think its pathetic they need to outnumber people to win... but if thats what they feel they need to do then they will do it, regardless of my opinion.

however theres no reason i shouldnt discuss it. if they are ashamed that people discuss it then they shouldnt do it.

Dribble Joy

23-03-05, 20:57

People will never fight fair when they have an objective to meet.
Even if they are here, fighting because they love the PvP and nothing else, they will not fight on equal terms because they don't want to run the risk of loosing.
The vast majority of players in NC can't handle loosing and what comes with it anything like as much as they say they can.
People hate para, stealth, UG/zone whoring, turreting and PPUs, but they will use them without a second thought.
Equal fights and good fights are a very distant second to winning.

OPs are too valuable, or at least they don't give the right kind of advantages.
They are half (at least) the reason the economy is in the state it is.
A couple of OPs for a day brings in shit loads of cash.
Remove the cash bonus, open the GRs and give the GR fees to the owners.

trigger hurt

23-03-05, 21:03

Yeah, because armies always phone ahead to the opposing army's general to make sure they bring exactly the same number of people and that no one will have an unfair advantage.

The UG is there for a reason, to give the defending clan a slight advantage. Otherwise, they wouldn't GR straight to the UG. They also don't know what's going on up there until they zone up and you do. In that respect, you have the advantage.

For every whine and "advantage" people claim exists in this game, there are tactics you can use counter them. You just gotta be smarter than your opponent.

If I was talking about taking an op, I would mention it. Before my account expired, my spy was unclanned and raided CRP alone. Now, being what it is, I expect the rest of the sheep to come out of the wood work looking for a fight. On the other hand, they know I am alone. They know I don't have a ppu. So what's the need in brining 6 people from the same clan, whoring the UG when I get them below half HP and calling the ppu to para/db me when they already have the advantage of numbers.

It's called skill. I never claimed to be the uber pk'r, but when I see them repeatedly have as many as they can get come out of the ug to fight one, single spy, I have to step back and think that maybe I must be pretty good at something.

It's also not a question of who's smarter than who. The UG is locked, so I can't go down, but they sure as hell can and do when the fight isnt going their way. Next thing you know, that guy you were fighting has called 5 of his friends, one of which is a ppu. Not because he's smart. Instead, because he just plain out sucks.

Jesterthegreat

23-03-05, 21:06

hegemon

24-03-05, 05:13

It's called skill. I never claimed to be the uber pk'r, but when I see them repeatedly have as many as they can get come out of the ug to fight one, single spy, I have to step back and think that maybe I must be pretty good at something.

No, it's called boredom. Every time a team comes to CRP everyone comes out to fight because otherwise it's impossible to find a fight with pro-city.

Right now there is a civil war between anti-city clans because noone from Neocron has done anything to make pvping interesting. It's always the same. A sniper at Cycrow here and there that more often dies from falling down mountains or grims than to other players. A fucking droner that's exploiting some bug or other to hide in places where it's not possible to get without exploiting. Or a completly uncoordinated and unprepared team with a gazillion fighters and ppus that run into the CRP cave kill everyone who's leveling there (oooh, very challenging since everyone is wearing poison armor and non-pvp gear) and run out with yellow or red SL and get killed somewhere between CRP and Cycrow.

The huge teams of people don't show up because there is some mastermind who's pulling the strings and decides where to send how many people, but because people in the Dome are bored and because it's more than likely that the people who attacked the cave will come out with red SL and drop a belt even though it's a warzone. If you believe that someone is actually deciding those things and has control over where and when people go, you really should get some pills for the paranoia.

hegemon

24-03-05, 05:26

There are people who want to have a good fight and there are people who want to win.

What's a "good fight"? Something with arbitrary, but tightly controlled rules? Or a battle between two people where the only rules are the laws of nature (in this case, the limitations placed on you by KK (who are acting god in the Neocron universe))?

It's not a question of if you prefer to win or have a good fight (and if you say that you don't want to win, you're either lying or not human). It's a question what you consider to be a good fight. A match of boxing in a ring with a referee or a bar brawl? An olympic fencing game in white clothes where you can only wield the sword in one hand, wear protective gear and count points, or priates swashbuckling where you can kick your opponent in the head, throw a chair at him or poke him with a dagger you were hiding in the shoe?

For me a good fight is when only the laws of nature are limiting me, not some arbitrary rules that are designed by the people who yell the loudest. Because in most cases the people who yell the loudest are also the dumbest and always write rules that outlaw thinking.

Tostino

24-03-05, 05:41

Well when I usto PK at Crp I would aloways be there for 5-10 min before they called a PPU and I would just run to the GR and say fuck it or I would get paraed and owned in 10 sec. This is lame but you can not blame them, becuase one night when they didnt have a PPU on I was there for a hr and a half and killed 25 ppl (so they NEED a ppu becuase they can't do shit without one). I'm not gona name clans here tho.

Jesterthegreat

24-03-05, 08:42

good fights have nothing to do with rules.

a good fight is one that you found fun (and hopefully the otherside found fun).

the 12 hours when ghetto defended cycrow... we were zergged all day... but i had loads of fun. and at the end FF got their fun as they had the UG back for their macroing

Xylaz

24-03-05, 17:12

What's a "good fight"?

good fight is a fight you enjoy (the others too, preferably), theres no need for any other definition.

some people just want to have a good time, simply as it is. Whether they do it by op warring or duelling or pkiling or tradeskilling is irrevelent. And yes, they want to win as well, but after all, its just a good time they are after.

some people just want to win, regardless of everything, using every trick which can help them achieving their goals. Its all ok as well unless they brake some rules (the rules made by KK, like cheating, exploiting etc).

The difference is intuitive, attacking one player with 20 others is not very fun, challenging or satisfying, but it can guarantee a win. Its just a matter of what you prefer much. Of course, some people may consider winning as the base for their enjoyment in which case win=fun for them.

People are different, thats all.

Bugs Gunny

24-03-05, 17:15

I enjoy running around, chasing a carrot.... Others enjoy chasing me around and shooting me.

trigger hurt

24-03-05, 17:22

No, it's called boredom. Every time a team comes to CRP everyone comes out to fight because otherwise it's impossible to find a fight with pro-city.

Right now there is a civil war between anti-city clans because noone from Neocron has done anything to make pvping interesting. It's always the same. A sniper at Cycrow here and there that more often dies from falling down mountains or grims than to other players. A fucking droner that's exploiting some bug or other to hide in places where it's not possible to get without exploiting. Or a completly uncoordinated and unprepared team with a gazillion fighters and ppus that run into the CRP cave kill everyone who's leveling there (oooh, very challenging since everyone is wearing poison armor and non-pvp gear) and run out with yellow or red SL and get killed somewhere between CRP and Cycrow.

The huge teams of people don't show up because there is some mastermind who's pulling the strings and decides where to send how many people, but because people in the Dome are bored and because it's more than likely that the people who attacked the cave will come out with red SL and drop a belt even though it's a warzone. If you believe that someone is actually deciding those things and has control over where and when people go, you really should get some pills for the paranoia..

Why should anyone go out of their way to make pvp interesting for you? You think they have for in the 10 seconds it takes for their zerg to drop a lone rifle spy? No...infact, I would venture to guess that it was more trouble than it was worth because first they had to stop macro express and now they have to get everything set back up and restart it.

FF have faught this way from the very start. They didn't just start. Who the hell wants to fight a clan that hugs zone lines and the UG? Who wants to fight a clan that uses every dirty trick in the book (clipping into walls/boxes, hiding in the target box of objects, etc) to ensure their victory? Who wants to fight a clan whose only advantage is the fact that they can and do bring sheer numbers to win? Noone wants to fight them.

It's got nothing to do with smarts. It's got nothing to do with skills, cause I've caught quite a few of them on their own and they aren't as good as they would have people think. It has everything to do with them being people who don't play this game for the fun of fighting. They play this game to make their epenis a little larger. They are like the the City Mercs on saturn. They never wanted to fight TBC for the ops, they just wanted to have them.

And to answer your question. A good fight is when both sides faught tooth and nail for every step of the way. A good fight is like back on saturn, Cartel was up against 4 or 5 clans and some independant runners. We had about 15 on and we all showed up to the fight, they brought about 20 or so. The fight lasted a good hour, going back and forth with us on the edges of our seat, but eventually we killed them and the stragglers ran off.

FF does not fight tooth and nail. I know it's hard for anyone in the dome to speak out against them because, well, you are their lapdogs, but if you took a few weeks to play on the NC side and actually fight against FF for a while, you might find yourself totally surprised to see just what we are talking about.

Bugs Gunny

24-03-05, 17:36

We fight FF, and yes, they synch a lot, and yes they have a ppu for each fighter, but i'm not complaining about it.

It just means we need to get more ppu's in the clan :-)

Xylaz

24-03-05, 17:39

it just means we need to remove ppus ;)

Bugs Gunny

24-03-05, 17:47

Hmmmm Elchi and i discussed this once, an op fight without ppu's just to see how it would turn out.

I think it would be a short op fight :-)

hegemon

25-03-05, 01:47

The difference is intuitive, attacking one player with 20 others is not very fun, challenging or satisfying, but it can guarantee a win.

Once again. There is no mastermind here that controls how many people to send. It's simply that people have been leaving the city to come to the dome because the city can't get their act together and organize a good resistance. The choice is not 20 people or just one against an attacker. The choice is to either have any fight even if it's completly unfair or no fight at all.

Have you ever asked your people to leave a fight because there were too many people there already? No, I didn't think so. I've only seen it once in my whole Neocron career and guess who asked people to leave? The clan that everyone accuses of "zerging" all the time.

Jesterthegreat

25-03-05, 01:48

trigger hurt

26-03-05, 00:25

Once again. There is no mastermind here that controls how many people to send. It's simply that people have been leaving the city to come to the dome because the city can't get their act together and organize a good resistance. The choice is not 20 people or just one against an attacker. The choice is to either have any fight even if it's completly unfair or no fight at all.

Have you ever asked your people to leave a fight because there were too many people there already? No, I didn't think so. I've only seen it once in my whole Neocron career and guess who asked people to leave? The clan that everyone accuses of "zerging" all the time.

I think people are leaving the city cause their fucking tired of getting zerged everytime they want to go fight somewhere.

If everyone's itching for a fight so badly...why are they unable to head to the city. All it takes is for you to kill one noob, and you'll have plenty of fighting coming your way.

Excuses. That's all you're making now. You can't justify what happens when a lone person raids cycrow, not with anything other than pure lameness.

Oh, and no. I don't ask people to leave a fight when there are too many there. I leave myself.

Jesterthegreat

26-03-05, 00:37

I think people are leaving the city cause their fucking tired of getting zerged everytime they want to go fight somewhere.

If everyone's itching for a fight so badly...why are they unable to head to the city. All it takes is for you to kill one noob, and you'll have plenty of fighting coming your way.

Excuses. That's all you're making now. You can't justify what happens when a lone person raids cycrow, not with anything other than pure lameness.

Oh, and no. I don't ask people to leave a fight when there are too many there. I leave myself.

dunno about everyone else but we are considering spending our time having pre aranged fights with the likes of rez dogs and soldierz. both are a good size and we can have a fun fight with fair numbers.

fightin FF is fun til they zerg (so not for long) and since i couldnt care less about actually owning the op i dont even care if its completely for fun or if we agree winner keeps the op.

:edit: does this mean FF win?

on the "win" side they keep their ops

on the "lose" side they get barely any fights

i know what i would rather have between fights or ops

trigger hurt

26-03-05, 20:38

dunno about everyone else but we are considering spending our time having pre aranged fights with the likes of rez dogs and soldierz. both are a good size and we can have a fun fight with fair numbers.

fightin FF is fun til they zerg (so not for long) and since i couldnt care less about actually owning the op i dont even care if its completely for fun or if we agree winner keeps the op.

:edit: does this mean FF win?

on the "win" side they keep their ops

on the "lose" side they get barely any fights

i know what i would rather have between fights or ops

More power to you. As long as the fights you arrange are fun, who cares about anything else? Afterwards, stand up, shake hands and go at it again.

On the other hand, nothing is going to get in FF's head that they are too big for their own good. They'll probably outlast any other clan simply because everyone in the clan is too chicken shit to strike out on their own and try to take ops for themselves.