View Full Version : What is it with PEs and Pistols?
Xeron Brigs
14-01-05, 06:57
It seems like PEs always use pistols as their weapon of choice. Just out of curiosity, why is that? I mean they could use rifles in lieu of pistols and they would not have a harder time. Any pistol PEs care to explain why PEs frequently use pistols?
see pe's only have little short arms, there arms are about the lengh of your thumb so holding a rifle is basicly imposible for them, even using a pistol too, they have special gloves that attach to there stumps and they can hold the gun. the glove doesnt do anything for there aim tho :lol:
Xeron Brigs
14-01-05, 07:17
ROFL! Must have been all the radiation exposure.
Notorious Fish
14-01-05, 07:18
I use First love :)
trigger hurt
14-01-05, 07:39
see, back in the day...weapon lore didnt do much except make the reticle close a little faster, so most pe's went pistols because they could spec a small amount of weapon lore and still have hack/implant tradeskills. Now, weapon lore is much more important so I am guessing you will see some of these pistol pe's switching to rifles sooner or later.
Plus, pe's have stumpy little arms and they can't hold rifles.
pretty much what Trigger said, also no runspeed decrease, and some people just prefer pistols over rifles, ive used Libby, Wyatt, Painy, Termy, RoG, Disruptor, FL, RoLH, BoH and after a while i just came to rest on the judge....
I hate pistols, i just hate 'em. Couldn't be more boring gun than little thing in your hand what says ptwiu and some lightballs fly outta it. Le sigh mateys arrr!
Now , whats more manly is to have big gun, that you have to hold both hands, and what makes big sound and makes you feel like you just gained 666+to your combat rank ! Yeesss, evil himself!
Don't take this too seriously ._.
Btw, my PE uses TS epic rifle & Terminator.
what says ptwiu
use slasher
pwiupwiupwiupwiupwiupwiupwiupwiupwiu
or liberator
ratabababababababababababam
Btw, my PE uses TS epic rifle & Terminator.
same here, tsu epic + terminator + dmgb is great.
Dunno but dont think they should be usin Healing Lights, First loves, Executioners, Slashers without some mega gimpage, atm it's just craazzzzy fighting a well setup exe pe especially ones with dmg boost lol
Bugs Gunny
14-01-05, 11:27
One of my pe's uses Tangent plasma cannon and speedgat.... Spies get plasma cannon, all the rest of them get speedgat + db.
Well, this class never really used to use rifles coz they were "nerfed" for them, as they seem to don't own enough INT/ Weapon Lore point to add. now that pistols has the same problem, and that they can't put a lot of psi use anymore, PE rifles seemed to appear more often in nc
well that's what think about it at least
Well, this class never really used to use rifles
i think u are really ... really ... reallly wrong.
Bugs Gunny
14-01-05, 11:59
True. Ever since i started playing in nc1 i've seen pain easer pe's and later on terminator pe's (they HURT....)
I think if you're gonna go rifles, and not sniper (with healing light), i'd go terminator all the way. You have runspeed to rival a melee tank, and if you heal up during the fight and use damageboost.... You get to hack quite a few belts.
in nc1.. it was rifles all the way.. only pistol PE was Rabbi Fang, at least on Uranus
and QD maybe..
rest were all rifles, since the PA's its been pistols, cuz everyone knows the Slasher is overpowered (no im not complaining or whining, i use it myself :D)
Executioner is good also :p
I was pistol in nc1.. hell i went to the extent of a slasher :lol: ... but it got boring I use terminator now... pistols is easier for a pe to use it gives more spare inteligence points aswell for hacking and psi use as you don't need as much weapon lore... well you never used to :lol: (skill reworks are fun :P)
since the PA's its been pistols, cuz everyone knows the Slasher is overpowered
think i missed something...
u was using judge :(
my PE on uranus was pistols....my at one time there was only me and Sel low tech rifles on Saturn, but then there was an explosion of em...
Dribble Joy
14-01-05, 12:27
in nc1.. it was rifles all the way.. only pistol PE was Rabbi Fang, at least on Uranus
and QD maybe..
Plenty of Pistol users about in NC1, though mostly at the end.
Though pistols required little in the way of WEP, due to the lack of MC5s and PA, with drugs still not widely used, use of pistols above the libby was virtually unheard of.
I was, for a considerable time, the only full time judge user on uranus, there was only about 2 or 3 other full capped pistol users, all using the Libby.
QD has a post here on the forum about us being a dying breed :p.
It was all a bit odd, there wasn't any real reason for it.
Plenty of Pistol users about in NC1, though mostly at the end.
read his post again.
Dribble Joy
14-01-05, 12:36
read his post again.
ummm... and?
ummm... and?
thought u wanted to refute his statement.
Pistols are kind of screwed up at the moment - my PE has 102 WEP and 130 PC and doesn't come near capping damage on the TL63 SMG (i get about 126% damage :wtf: )
I'm a lowtech pistol PE cos everyone else in NC1 went hightech plus the Libby makes a cool noise!!
my PE was rifle in NC1 was lo tech for most of it done prety good using only pain easer.
then at end of NC1 i went to high tech rifles and also used first love, looks the win in PA4 :D
however after the rollback my PE was put back to a gimpy 1/2 lommed melee PE so i havnt touched him since, still got all my rifles so if i ever get around to sorting him out i will have nice weapons awaiting
I been rifle PE since Beta 4 back when the EPR was the highest rifle and there were no rares, i just lurve rifles.
RogerRamjet
14-01-05, 14:04
John Digweed, Sir Ramic Hobbs and Arkanis were pistol users too on uranus, well over 2 years ago.
Oh, and Seisma.
I think PEs choose pistol because, as most people have said, theyre able tp spec hack/psi use/imp etc.
Personally I always liked low tech Rifles, i tried and cookie cutter, and it wasnt all that impressed to be honest.
(Btw, did they nerf the RoG in NC2).
I been rifle PE since Beta 4 back when the EPR was the highest rifle and there were no rares, i just lurve rifles.
Haha, the story of when SpyMaster said to John Digweed "Have you ever heard of an enhanced plasma rifle!" still cracks me up.
Jesterthegreat
14-01-05, 14:26
(Btw, did they nerf the RoG in NC2).
i assume so... they tickle my PE now...
and rifle PE was never crap... DB + HL = 100 damage to a tank...
basically HL, slasher and exec are the general weapons of choice for PE's. of course there are HC / MC / low tech PE's floating around too
Well, I have used every Pistol on my PE in game in a viable setup, and am quite happy with them.
I have a rifle spy, but Ifind that rifles aren'treally suited to my play style. I know of rifle PEs who do the same amount of damage to me as I can do to them regardless of what weapons you use. Its really to do with what you are happy to use. I used to have a 5 drug Exec setup, but after a while I got bored of having to drug every 5 mins so I went back to my BoH setup, and now I am on a Judge setup.
I also like the ability to be able to hack TL110 on my Pistol PE, which I probably couldn't do on a rifle PE, but I haven't played one really so I don't know.
And whoever was talking about Pistol PEs being in decline, I can name a fair number who played on Saturn.
Transformer
14-01-05, 15:35
Paw of Tiger + Dmg boost works quite nicely, plus you get to expierence being the fastest PE in the West and outrun those lil melee tanks and shock em and piss them off. Of course thats just my fun char, can't exactly OP war with one or drop people in seconds like meh APU...still fun hehe.
Dribble Joy
14-01-05, 16:20
Ugh, DB....
I really dunno about how I feel about that thing...
Basically the explosion of the pistol PE was due to a certain patch in NC1 making the Liberator a weapon that ripped through everything.
That patch made the Liberator have a very high rate of fire and do alot of damage per shot. It also required less skill points to cap for PEs leaving them with spare points in other areas such as agility and hacking. This made good PEs rip through about 2 or 3 CS tanks before the PE died.
Of course in usual KK fashion, the Liberator was nerfed a little too much. ;)
Dribble Joy
14-01-05, 16:35
That was fucking ages ago, right at the start of retail.
And actually, if the libby aiming/shot landing, was fixed, it would be overpowered :p.
Considering it's a tl91 weapon, only 5 more than a BS, it's not a bad gun.
Anyone know the rough WEP and PC needed to fully cap a libby now? I'm struggling to cap my TL63 SMG at the moment and i'm worried that my setup might not cut it anymore
I hate to rip on someone who's done so much good for the game and for the forums, but the reason you can't cap damage and accuracy on a pistol any more was because Lupus had an official One Really Dumb Idea, and we were unable to talk him out of it. I can't readily find the message where he explained why he was pushing this formula change, but his theory was that since it's harder to aim a pistol than a rifle, it should take more points in Weapon Lore to cap damage and accuracy on a pistol than it does on a rifle. So now it's basically impossible for a PE and non-trivial for a spy.
About six months into retail release of NC1, there was a major combat revamp. During that revamp, the controlling theory was that pistols sucked because they had shorter range than rifles and no real advantage; the closest thing that they had to an advantage was that they weighed a kilogram or two less, big deal. So to make up for their shorter range, Reakktor gave them three advantages.
They were made so that they had about a 20% higher rate of fire, and about a 5% higher damage per shot, than rifles and cannons do.
The formulae were set up so that it took only about 50 base WEP to cap accuracy on any pistol, about 75 base WEP to cap accuracy on cannons, and about 100 or more base WEP to cap accuracy on rifles -- and by the way, Lupus, if you're reading this, this is why, to this day, the Personal Skill Advisor emails your characters get if you're an Engineer or a Scientist or a Hacker tell you to use pistols.
And then to give pistols one more boost over rifles to make up for their short range, they made it so that having a rifle drawn would reduce your run speed significantly and so that having a cannon drawn would reduce your running speed even more.Pistols still have their runspeed advantage, and I can see what that really appeals to stealther spies who might need to get away fast and to PEs who can take advantage of their better spells, better armor, and better CON to get up really close before opening fire. And pistols still have slightly better damage, and especially SMGs and gatling pistols have much better rate of fire than the comparable rifles. But now if you want to take advantage of those rules, you really have to give up on any tradeskill, and pretty seriously have to gimp your hacking.
There's been enough complaining about this change that something like a month ago, Lupus said he was considering it and that future changes might happen. But that was a month ago, and he said "considering" and "might."
trigger hurt
14-01-05, 17:08
my PE on uranus was pistols....my at one time there was only me and Sel low tech rifles on Saturn, but then there was an explosion of em...
Not true.
Myself and Helmut were the only rifle pe's on saturn for a while, everyone else used libby because of the damage it did at the start of retail. I was high tech rifles using epr and pain easer up until february of 2003. Then I took a break and found a new love for spies :p, but trigger hurt, my first pe still was there
well then you couldnt have been the only low tech rifle PEs coz me a Sel where low tech rifles too lol....just us 4 then :p
trigger hurt
14-01-05, 17:13
well then you couldnt have been the only low tech rifle PEs coz me a Sel where low tech rifles too lol....just us 4 then :p
Friends to the end, sir.
My PE was LowTech since start of german Retail.
So my E-Penis > Yours.
:D
Xeron Brigs
14-01-05, 17:59
Ok, this gives me a very good idea of why PEs use pistols more than rifles. Thanks for the information.
.hack//sign
14-01-05, 18:09
My PE has been lowtech rifle since i capped him,and ive never looked back ;)
Dribble Joy
14-01-05, 18:24
I hate to rip on someone who's done so much good for the game and for the forums, but the reason you can't cap damage and accuracy on a pistol any more was because Lupus had an official One Really Dumb Idea, and we were unable to talk him out of it.
Wrong, Lupus (or someone/something) cocked up the skill readjustment.
Pistol aiming is broken, how it is now is now how it was intended to be.
I can't readily find the message where he explained why he was pushing this formula change, but his theory was that since it's harder to aim a pistol than a rifle, it should take more points in Weapon Lore to cap damage and accuracy on a pistol than it does on a rifle. So now it's basically impossible for a PE and non-trivial for a spy.
What? See above.
Pistols still have their runspeed advantage,
Which is pretty much irrelevant.
and I can see what that really appeals to stealther spies who might need to get away fast and to PEs who can take advantage of their better spells, better armor, and better CON to get up really close before opening fire.
You have you gun out all the time?
And pistols still have slightly better damage, and especially SMGs and gatling pistols have much better rate of fire than the comparable rifles.
RoF is irrelevant, overall dmg over time is the key.
Pistols and rifles (apart from a few singular weapons) were pretty much balanced before the skill change.
Pistols had the low range and low WEP req, rifle the other way round.
Which is how I like it.
Lupus, as part of a larger plan to overhaul the skills then changed this.
The intention was so that WEP would now affect pistol freq, but otherwise the skills for both pistols and rifles would not change.
Pistollers could choose to keep thier low wep and thier freq as it was, or speciallise and cap freq.
Rifles would still have the advantage of range but (with equal skilling) pistols would be more powerful.
Obviously, it didn't work out. Pistol aiming was fucked and the rifle changes meant that rifles could ALSO cap freq.
I assume most are either there for the extra int points spare or the fact drugging upto a Executioner or Slasher is far better for a pe than Healing Light or FL.
The Exe is nasty and the slasher ..... lol
ROG used to be very good then that got nerfed for some reason as did the ROLH, so probs a Ray weapon thing goin on there.
and dunno bout range on rifles bein much of an advantage thx to clip plane but my exe shoots pretty accurate across a good distance of the zone and most times providin the rifler isnt a stealther i am on em before they get enough bursts of at range to do me major dmg.
Dribble Joy
14-01-05, 20:41
Pistols got a huge boost in range in around June last year, something like an 80% increase.
Even before that, their range (imo) was too high.
Just wondering if they nerfed ROG since july 04? that was the last time my PE was rifles and i am thinking of loming him back.
Jesterthegreat
14-01-05, 21:55
I assume most are either there for the extra int points spare or the fact drugging upto a Executioner or Slasher is far better for a pe than Healing Light or FL.
i disagree...
Exec does sick damage... but so does HL. i would put them about even (assuming a player is equally skilled with both).
basically it comesdown to play style. if you can aim an exec well you will shread... if you aim a HL well you will shred (though less to a as its not got force as a main damage type)
i disagree...
Exec does sick damage... but so does HL. i would put them about even (assuming a player is equally skilled with both).
i second that.
but i think HL is a lil bit better, l crossair dont drafts while shooting.
and u have a huge range, hl is one of the best sniper rifles i think.
Well here's an example -
My stats - INT 61, DEX 83, PC 138(base 118), WEP 111 (86 base)
On this weapon...
TL 77 Tangent Spitfire Gatling Pistol
Damage 128%
Aiming 169%
Shot Freq 269 / min
Recoil 12
Range 130m
How can I hope to cap a libby that's 14TLs higher without dumping practically every INT point I have into WEP?? I can't skim much more off of Agility without really sacrificing speed
And i've just checked my TL63 SMG - I'm a fair way off capping damage etc. on that :confused:
erm, 1 slot, unmodded 90% stats on the gat pistol
Dribble Joy
14-01-05, 22:48
HL is a beam weapon though, non locational dmg and you don't need anything like a full lock for it to hit.
And I'm sure it does more dmg than an Exec.
erm, 1 slot, unmodded 90% stats on the gat pistol
in that case its not astonishing. get a nice slotted one.
ok, maybe that was a bad example, try this...
4 slot modded TL63 Rapidfire SMG224 (all stats 107%)
Damage 159%
Aiming 205%
Shot Freq 370 / min
Same stats as above, INT 61, DEX 83, PC 138(base 118), WEP 111 (86 base)
I'm sure something is very wrong here... I don't cap a TL63 weapon :confused:
Dribble Joy
14-01-05, 23:28
If it was arti dmg, you would be pretty close to capping dmg.
If it was arti dmg, you would be pretty close to capping dmg.
if he'd go for dmg arti he would have to neglect frequency or handling.
Dribble Joy
14-01-05, 23:41
if he'd go for dmg arti he would have to neglect frequency or handling.
I know, just saying.
Asurmen Spec Op
15-01-05, 00:44
Well I use pistols because I already have a RC,MC,HC PEs
Freaky Fryd
15-01-05, 00:45
hl is one of the best sniper rifles i think.
I fully agree, and it's damn good at close range too.
Toe to toe battles in DOY against fully buffed/combat ready CS tanks, HL APUs, and even an HL PE have shown how me really how well the Healing Light performs...
(Yes, I do actually beat some people I fight - even combat-ready ones, and yes, often without having to stealth away. The key is just not letting them hit you... ;))
The damage is good, I find it fairly easy to hit most people, and it's a good clip size.
I've never really like the First Love due to the fast stam drain and the poor aiming on it.
The Silent Hunter is alright, but I've barely touched mine since the Spirit ammo dried up, and since most of the fighting I do is close-range in DOY now.
The Redeemer...ugh...never liked it for almost every reason :p
Pain Easer jitters too much and drains too much stamina for me...
I've still never even tried a Terminator...hmmm....
Bottom-line, the Healing Light takes some pretty high stats to fully cap (even with 120-all), but it's well-rounded and suits most needs. Most PE's don't have the points to get high enough stats without drugging VERY heavily...
EDIT: Got side-tracked, sorry... O_o
PE's generally have better defense, so it makes sense for them to be in a position where they are subjected to more damage and can cause more. A pistoler in your face is a bigger danger than a sniper, providing you have knowledge of both (and you're not in the middle of an open field :p)
Notorious Fish
15-01-05, 00:48
Dunno but dont think they should be usin Healing Lights, First loves, Executioners, Slashers without some mega gimpage, atm it's just craazzzzy fighting a well setup exe pe especially ones with dmg boost lol
Well in order to use FL, I have no agility. Evryone of my points in rifle. And i have almost no spare INT.. so ya it does gimp you somewhat. not to mention the drugs and money for the drugs...
Dribble Joy
15-01-05, 01:28
A HL PE will have lower defences in all probability than a HL spy.
Even with two drugs in dex a HLPE will have at best a single ppr or moveon, and bad agl/atl.
A spy can use inq, a ppr and a moveon and still use a HL with relative ease.
Well in order to use FL, I have no agility. Evryone of my points in rifle. And i have almost no spare INT.. so ya it does gimp you somewhat. not to mention the drugs and money for the drugs...
i dont spec a single point of agil and still have around 60+ agil 60 ath which is still fast to me and spare int for a rifler dosent happen much, 50 odd psi use and wep lore.
Which i am almost doing on my FL rifle spy, but the imp setup to me would be a loss.
HL would be at better at range, just think exe has the edge cuz it hits a lot quicker and dmg seems faster where hl kinda stacks on so need a few hits for it to build.
Think pe wouldnt be to bad compared to a spy, they still get higher armour and more con points to spend just lack of the big resist armour.
A HL PE will have lower defences in all probability than a HL spy.
Even with two drugs in dex a HLPE will have at best a single ppr or moveon, and bad agl/atl.
A spy can use inq, a ppr and a moveon and still use a HL with relative ease.
With my Slasher setup I could switch it to an HL setup and get the same resists/run speed, which is better than most spies. Dunno about the damage though. Although like Fish the killer is the drugs, as they either cost you a lot or use a lot of junk to clone from.
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