Ideal Constitution Setup for a Spy

[Xeron Brigs]

I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how to rig up my constitution. It is currently capped and I can afford to lom every skill down to zero if need be. Here are my stats:
Athletics: 52
Body Health: 55
Endurance: 50
Resist Fire: 24
Resist Energy: 0
Resist XRay: 0
Resist Poison: 22

[uzsjgb]

Do you need the endurance? Your PA will reduce it somewhat. I have 0 endurance and I can live with that. Poison depends on what you think you'll be up against, I have 0 there also. 0 on energy resist scares me, even if you'll probably be wearing the heavy energy belt. You can never have enough energy protection. Health is up to personal preferences, I try to aim for a self-buffed body health of around 400.

[Bugs Gunny]

Depends if you want a rifle of pistol spy.
For a pistol spy i would drug up for shelter, and beast fore inq1 armor, use some strength implants and spec 75 health instead of 50.
Rifle spies need less health, but more runspeed.
Always cary antishock and damageblocker drugs on you.
Go with heavy fire or energy belt. Forget about poison resists, don't put in filter heart 1.

Athletics: 57
Body Health: 50
Endurance: 0
Resist Fire: 40
Resist Energy: 40
Resist XRay: 0
Resist Poison: 0

[Dribble Joy]

With the right setup and a willingness to drug, you can get a setup as good as any PE, in most cases better than.

Even 75 hlt (total) is too low, experiment a bit more.

[Bugs Gunny]

That's 75 health natural, you should use moveon a heart and BR2 to top it off.

Remember, 75 is the magical number when it come to point effectiveness in setups. For resists, never go over 114, as that's cap.

[Dribble Joy]

Remember, 75 is the magical number when it come to point effectiveness in setups.
Highly debatable.

The key to any setup is the overall hp/resist balance, where the htl base value lies depends on that.

I was about to advise using a filter heart, but this isn't tank or PE setups here, besides, it's not like a spy needs the xray. A str heart 2 is what you want (afaik, I can't remember which is better).

75+18+15 = 103.
That's going to be considerably less than 400hp....

[Bugs Gunny]

I usualy try to start off with 75 health, then work from there as i switch around resists etc... But for a spy, it's awlays evened out energy and fire resists, then the +health heart, a moveon and BR2... Which should get you over 400hp.
And dammage done by weapons is related to (con.hlth) so keep that in mind too.

[Dribble Joy]

Con and hlt has no direct affect on damage done. As repeatedly stated by Lupus/KK.

It is projectile weapons (everything except beam/ray and some ppu spells) act differently at different target hp levels and also are dependant on location. It has nothing to do with the CON/HTL of the target itself.
Lupus is working (or at least has in the pipeline) on a fix for this.

[uzsjgb]

In a thread like this someone once said: Who says you have to divide up your CON points?

That is an interesting thought and I should like to try it out some day. Will having around 500 health compensate for lower fire and energy resists?

[Bugs Gunny]

It's all a difficult equation.

You see, a heal will recover a certatin amount, so a spy with 595 health, will take ages to recover from dammage done by healing himself.
So, there is a sweetspot where the % of dammage absorbed by resists and the toal amount of health plus the fact that you can heal up a bit in combat, all come together.
In theory you could calculate this, if you had all the right formulas for the way resists work, how dammage is affected by them, con and health.
And then there's the fact that ammo mods do some funky shit to weapon dammage too.

This game has been around so long that if you compare the con setups of most people that played this game for a while you'll see that most are almos identical.

The all in health thing will get you nowhere i'm afraid, but here's a hint for pvp:

Gourmet meals, stamboosters, and pop a healspel now and then. That's what makes you have that extra 20hp edge at the end of the battle.

[Dribble Joy]

Let's break it down (dawg :p).

Resists add to armour, your total armour value affects how much damage is absorbed when you are hit. The rest of the damage is then taken off your hp (assuming a beam/ray weapon and/or theoretical conditions).

If you have no resists, but lots of hp, you will absorb little damage.
If you have high resists, but no hp, you will absorb a lot.

The problem is, that the the balance between the two variable does not remain constant. With too little hp, you will not absorb enough and you will die fast, with too much, the same is true.

Given a nominal amount of damage per hit (100 is an easy figure), the aim is to maximise the numbers of hits that you can withstand.
If you have 500hp and absorb 30%, it will only take 7 1/7 hits to kill you.
If you have 200 hp and absorb 70% it will take 6 2/3 hits to kill you.

However, if you have 450 hp and absorb 55% it will take 10 hits to kill you.

A rough guide, with aproximate values, but could be seen ingame.

See http://neocron.ems.ru/resist.html for more details.

edit//
The heal thing... hmmm, depends....


This game has been around so long that if you compare the con setups of most people that played this game for a while you'll see that most are almos identical.
Mostly born out of a handfull of people's efforts, I could grumble about people not taking the time to figure things out for themselves, but then again, here I am giving advice.

Not everyone is the same, people have different ways of doing things, I would be very different to my current setup if it weren't for the fact Kami chips were removed.

[Serpent]

i got 426 health, enough runspeed and can eat nearly two magazines of a cs, thanks the drugs :)

[Bugs Gunny]

Yes... pistol spies... well they use up more drugs than they use up oxygen :-)

[Dribble Joy]

Fire or xray CS?

[uzsjgb]

i got 426 health, enough runspeed and can eat nearly two magazines of a cs, thanks the drugs :)

At the moment the most interesting part about the CON setup to me is if to put any points into athletics (and agility), or to rely fully on drugs for runspeed (and using exp foot and leg). There are some interesting variants possible.

[Dribble Joy]

Spies can only use the exp leg and foot if they are drugging like a 60's hippy.
Need 46 str to use the foot (easily obtained if using an inq setup), but he leg needs 52, either total gimpage or at least two str drugs.

When you get to high level PvP, speed starts to loose importance, as skill increases, aim improves considerably and in theory (and extemely high level practice), it becomes irrelevant.
A slightly ironic fact that at the highest level of skill, your actual skill is not the deciding factor, the setup of your character is :p.

[uzsjgb]

Spies can only use the exp leg and foot if they are drugging like a 60's hippy.

Yeah, that's the fun part :) I would be looking at a 5 drug setup. But only for PvP, making me a bit slow in everyday life.



When you get to high level PvP, speed starts to loose importance, as skill increases, aim improves considerably and in theory (and extemely high level practice), it becomes irrelevant.
A slightly ironic fact that at the highest level of skill, your actual skill is not the deciding factor, the setup of your character is :p.

Interesting. I am still testing things, which is a lot of fun. Then I'll see what I'm comfortable with, even if it isn't the best setup possible. When training in NF, I always compare how many clips I need to take down a stationary tank compared to a moving one. Since my aim isn't all too good, being too fast myself is more of a hinderance. And because I don't use the speed drugs in everyday life, the difference is quite profound.

[Dribble Joy]

Simply theorising that at the highest level of skill possible, aiming is perfect and that noone misses :p.

A zerk2, moveon, str back 2 and x-strong setup would give you 64 str btw.

[uzsjgb]

Simply theorising that at the highest level of skill possible, aiming is perfect and that noone misses :p.

A zerk2, moveon, str back 2 and x-strong setup would give you 64 str btw.

64? I get 53. I am looking closely at this setup, allowing me to wear Inqui armor without drugs. I don't have the SA yet, so I'll probably be too low on my weapon skills. My Slasher is capped with around 190 P-C and 150 WEP, which I find insanely high.

[Dribble Joy]

Sorry, I was trying to do about 4 things at once when I wrote that.

40 str cap, + 3 for zerk2, +3 for moveon, +3 for str2 back and +4 from x-strong. So yes, 53.

What other imps do you have?

SF and target 3?

[Xylaz]

ok here we go

not that this is a very good setup, or best setup (you have to work it out for urself - but most *very good* setups require a spy to be fully capped - incl INT, mind that), but its a good, decent one.

con:

athl: how much do u feel to, 50 or less
body health: at least 60 (that, along with exp heart 1 and moveon will give you your minimum amount of hp which is 380 or something around that)
fire: minimum 40
energy: minimum 50 (at the very least)

and that's all, the basics, you have to work out the rest

you can drug like a whore or choose not to drug completely (well, almost...)

basic imp setup consists: SA SF targetting 3 moveon + str 2 spine(that requires beast for inq armor) or SA SF berserk 2 moveon +str 2 spine (which doesnt require beastie - mind that beast substract 10 from your body health which lowers your health pool pretty much).

There are lots of setup variations, depending on what weapon are u going to use (SA targetting 3 moveon berserk 2 for example), my friend invented a libby setup for spies with psi imps which remove the need of druggin for anything, even shelter.

Armor is usually heavy energy belt + inq 1 armor set + PA, nothing too revolutionary here.


ok that's it, hope it helps a bit


[edit]
if u cap slasher at 190 pc than u need a better one, with 120% stats. you can easily cap arti slasher with 180 pc and 150 weapon lore, or even less, so keep that in mind when looking for a new weapon

[SorkZmok]

I still think the only viable drugs are beast, redflash and nightspider. The rest will fuck you over too often when you got no time to pop new drugs or exploit.
Setups using more drugs arent working outside of NF or away from a safezone. All those people showing off their awesome spy setups using insane amounts of drugs, you never see em out there fighting apart from the occasional safezone/UG/ppu laming. o_O
Oh and even that well known exploit wont fix drugflash from 3 or more drugs, you have to wait it out. And that can take you ages.

But even "only" using those 3, you can get awesome resists, 400+ health, high runspeed and fully cap every gun.

I consider you put 50 into health, 50 into health, put on the armor you wanna wear and then work out a con setup by getting hit with a fire and a xray healing light and then put points into resists/health. Might take some time, but its worth the effort.

SA, SF, Moveon, PP chip, str booster or SA, SF, moveon, zerk, reflex4. Thats the setups you wanna use if you are into close combat pvp (and drugs :)) Work out yours from there.

[Dribble Joy]

If you can afford the dex and int hit, use a distance/target3 instead of an SF.

Beast is... iffy, the -10 htl is only just made viable by the fire armour gained through it's use.
Try X-strong and pop a redflash (which you are prrobably using anyway).

[SorkZmok]

If you can afford the dex and int hit, use a distance/target3 instead of an SF.

Beast is... iffy, the -10 htl is only just made viable by the fire armour gained through it's use.
Try X-strong and pop a redflash (which you are prrobably using anyway).X-Strong is 5 minutes. Not viable if you dont wanna spent most of your time running away or relogging.
And you cant afford the int hit, the best combat spy setups require an SA. PA 3 is -6 int, zerk is - int, reflex is - int, it wont work without near cap int BASE.
It wont even work with capped int and no SA.

/edit
DJ, the 10 hlt are ok, you gain 70 fire armor from that. And some runspeed aswell. Its damn worth it.

[Dribble Joy]

SA, dist3, ppr, moveon, str2 and beast, str 51, int 99.
All lvl1 inq and a heavy energy belt. Pop a RF and you have 115 dex.

[E. Cryton]

SA, dist3, ppr, moveon, str2 and beast, str 51, int 99.
All lvl1 inq and a heavy energy belt. Pop a RF and you have 115 dex.
ppr is kinda useless on y spy, we tried it out.
but i dunno what else to use :confused:

[Bugs Gunny]

psi resist chip ? :-)

[Jesterthegreat]

Highly debatable.

The key to any setup is the overall hp/resist balance, where the htl base value lies depends on that.

I was about to advise using a filter heart, but this isn't tank or PE setups here, besides, it's not like a spy needs the xray. A str heart 2 is what you want (afaik, I can't remember which is better).

75+18+15 = 103.
That's going to be considerably less than 400hp....


balance resist / HP with point efficiancy and we have a winner

:edit:

its old... its a 5 min setup... the pc / wep values will likely have to change... but enjoy

http://forum.neocron.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6800

[Dribble Joy]

ppr is kinda useless on y spy, we tried it out.
but i dunno what else to use :confused:
The fire and energy boost will help your CON quite a bit.
In order to get 120 odd energy (minimum on any setup I would ever consider using) without the ppr you will need to spend a lot over 50 base energy, with the ppr, you can get it below 50 and save on the point efficiency.

Regarding point efficiency and hp/resist balance, I generally look at the thing as a whole, taloring the imps (like above) into the setup first, so that when finding that balance the point efficiency is allready done.
Subsequent tweaking and fiddling then explores other possibilities.
The optimum setup may not involve what would normall appears to be the best options.

For example, back when I was Kami, I used duranium boots.
The shelter boots that I normally use had a better point efficiency, but with them my maximum energy would be limited to less than 100 (capped energy res, my armour defined my max energy).
Also, I used inq armour, and not duranit, despite my energy resist being 114 and base over 75, but the cost in fire res I would have to use to make up for the difference in armours that there is between duranit and inq turned out to be too high, even though it's base value was under 50.