View Full Version : Player Shops
I know they arent in yet.. but I was thinking..
They really ought to have a barter requirement skill..
Seriously good suggestion Naimex.
And maybe they can introduce a dedicated merchant class for this. And they can have a handcart... Ooo and they can hunt Porings...
dear god what am I saying *slaps self*
In all seriousness, have a min. barter level to activate a player shop "key", and the more barter you have, the less "service charge" is removed from the sale of each item (?)
just talked to Brammers and got a great idea :
Have like different sized shops :
(a stack of 20 is 20 items not 1)
Small Shop:
Barter : 30
Room for 20 items
Medium Shop:
barter : 70
Roomfor 100 items
Large Shop:
Barter : 100
Room for 200 items
Huge Shop:
Barter : 150
Room for 500 items
----------------------------------------------
Make an entrance in Tech Haven, where you will enter a large hall full of apartments with public entrances, where people can setup their shop, (they have to buy a room in this place first) and then they can decorate their shop the way they want it with furniture.
Safe zone of course.
Asurmen Spec Op
24-12-04, 01:37
so naimex when ya going to work for KK ;)
great idea
so naimex when ya going to work for KK ;)
great idea
when pigs are born with wings and cats can breathe under water...
or when they ask me to :p
Asurmen Spec Op
24-12-04, 01:39
when pigs are born with wings and cats can breathe under water...
or when they ask me to :p
kick ass see ya with a KK avatar next week
like theyd ask ye ;)
Well as I said to Naimex I do like the ideas that the player shops need Barter. And the idea of the bigger shops holding more items is also good.
You could take this one step further. You start with a one size shop and you add a cabinet to increase capacity of the store. So you start with two cabs to sell 2 x 33 items (66 in total) Then adding another 18 cabs would allow you to sell a total of 20 x 33 (660 items)
Well as I said to Naimex I do like the ideas that the player shops need Barter. And the idea of the bigger shops holding more items is also good.
You could take this one step further. You start with a one size shop and you add a cabinet to increase capacity of the store. So you start with two cabs to sell 2 x 33 items (66 in total) Then adding another 18 cabs would allow you to sell a total of 20 x 33 (660 items)
Maybe link the two together - each shop can only hold a certain number of cabs, and the size of the shop that can be purchased is determined by your barter skill?
RogerRamjet
24-12-04, 02:03
I would have liked them to introduce shops back when they said they would, would have stopped some close friends quitting.
Great ideas non the less. I dont know if KK look for ideas in their community, but i see it as a great idea.
Maybe link the two together - each shop can only hold a certain number of cabs, and the size of the shop that can be purchased is determined by your barter skill?
barter determines if you can place it rather than if you can buy it.
I also think that shops should NOT be tradeable or droppable. the person who buys it, also uses it. it cant be second hand.
this also means they shouldnt be allowed to be put in cabinets either, and to do that properly, they shouldnīt weigh anything.
or simply... not have a key for it.. but just have it linked directly to the char, no items or such for it, only a location, that can be seen on CityCom / Navray.
then have a terminal in the place you have bought, where you can customize, name of shop and type of shop.
I would have liked them to introduce shops back when they said they would, would have stopped some close friends quitting.
Great ideas non the less. I dont know if KK look for ideas in their community, but i see it as a great idea.
they do.. Hacknet was a player idea back a looong loong time ago.. (i was in the discussion about it :))
it was listed as "Cyberspace" back then. We never got an official statement in the entire thread, but they listened anyways and tweaked it to something they could use :)
I hate it. I hate it hate it hate it. This is the worst idea I've heard in the whole time since Reakktor raised the damage caps two years ago.
Let me get this straight - you think there are a lot of tradeskillers out there who have an extra 30 to 425 (!!!) subskill points to invest just in having a shop? Your plan is to have there be next to no actual player shops, for all tradeskillers who want to sell pre-manufactured items or blueprints to have to track down a high-ranking barter specialist and persuade that person to do their actual selling for them? Put down the crack pipe and step away from the keyboard.
Frankly, if the artwork in TH3 didn't make it clear that Reakktor has already decided how they want to do this, I think the whole idea of player "shops" is pretty dumb. We've already got an item delivery system that runs city wide and inter-city: the GoGuardian. And we've already got a communications network that stretches city wide and inter-city: CityCom. What I think they should be doing, instead of creating these player-run shop apartment thingies, is create a way for people to list merchandise on CityCom, to just drag an item into a CityCom window and have a field to enter asking price. No graphics or sets to design, just a straightforward list of all of the potentially saleable items, I figure it would be by TL within item category. Click on an item name in CityCom, and get a list sorted by ascending price of all of the ones currently offered showing their full item name, quantity in the stack (if applicable) and their condition stats (if any). Click to buy one, and the money gets transferred directly from your account to theirs and the item gets dumped directly into your GoGuardian. What could be simpler?
We mentioned the use of Barter skill in my thread a few weeks ago. I like the shop size ideas.
Perhaps a combination of ideas from the playerbase would be a good thing here..
Here's my thread:
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=119990
I hate it. I hate it hate it hate it. This is the worst idea I've heard in the whole time since Reakktor raised the damage caps two years ago.
Yeah, I dont like the Idea at all.. Since people would end up gimping other skills just to have barter :o
I have to admit, I didnīt really have it in mind that tradeskillers canīt have both high cst/res and high barter at same time..
It was just a part of the equation I had simply forgotten. I apologize.
Well we have the thread running, so please, any ideas on how you would like the shops to be?
I'm not against the idea but I just cant many people sinking points into barter to run a shop (which would be so bad except for that fact that shops are, as it stands, the only thing that can 'save' the supply problems NC2 has)
This game has become so cookie cutter (exacerbated by the PvP=all trend) that 'you' just dont have the points to spare/waste
Or maybe only barter chars could place the shops and rent some space to other tradeskillers. Maybe that's just a timesink/skillsink but it would be cool anyway. After all, not many producers actually have their own shops (although I would like to visit a ReaKKtorMart). :)
paolo escobar
24-12-04, 14:08
Make an entrance in Tech Haven, where you will enter a large hall full of apartments with public entrances, where people can setup their shop, (they have to buy a room in this place first) and then they can decorate their shop the way they want it with furniture.
Safe zone of course.
You not been to the trade hall TH sector 3. the one with the lift doors that wont open, i'm no genius but i guess thats where they will be.
I've thought about the barter-only shops before. Sounds like teh win.
I don't like the idea. The biggest problem I had on my conster is that I didn't want to spam the same message to TRADE every 20 seconds just to sell the half-decent stuff I built (2+ slotted weapons, tl3 spells, etc.). Instead I just dumped it in cabinets or at YOs or sometimes on the floor in TH. The difference with this system is that I would have to spam TRADE to find a barterer.
Rant starts here.
Since most tradeskillers can't be bothered to scream for business, we have a supply problem. Newbies have to learn how to first buy a crappy weapon at a weapon dealer hidden somewhere, then scream at trade to find a resser, then be yelled at because they didn't bring enough lube, then find a recycler to make the weapon part 8s and 9s for them, then find a conster, then figure out which mods they can use, find a conster again. etc. etc. At each step they can run into someone dishonest that steals their stuff (lost over 1M worth of armor part 10 to someone who claimed to be a barterer) or lies about his skills (got a 59% damage tl3 heal once from a person who claimed he had 220 CST skill). So basically every newbie has to learn everything a conster knows and everything a resser knows and basically every secret of the trade just to get a bloody tl10 weapon that doesn't suck, that he'll use for the next hour or two. Tradeskilling right now is not a matter of knowing anything that other people don't need to know or having any pride or skill in the trade. Tradeskilling right now is a matter of spending character slots because the pain of trying to get something is greater than the pain of not being able to test many different chars. I killed my conster two days ago so that I could test how to play a tank, yesterday I spent three hours yelling for slotted tl3 heals and deflectors. Noone reacted even though I offered 100k for every slot above 2.
Rant ends here.
I believe that selling should be as simple as listing something in the citycom with price, sorted on type and tech level. Just like Brad described it. Or maybe an auction. Keep it simple. Simple means it can be implemented fast.
They really ought to have a barter requirement skill.Why?
It's not like I care one way or the other as my 12 alts are all carbon-copies of each other (100+ barter, pistol spies, enough hack to access Faction databases), but, well, why make a specialization like that? Barter has no imps. It barely gets a boost from PPU spells. You'd be making a character to... sell things in shops? Are you trying to force people to buy second accounts?
It's one thing to push for ways to level tradeskills, it's another to force specialization in a skill that is nigh useless at this point due to factionalization of tier 2/3/4 items.
so please, any ideas on how you would like the shops to be?I'd like a couple options. First, vendor terminal outside an apartment entrance, enabling a safemode switch for apartments so there won't be stupid slaughter at the stores. No charge for this option.
Second would be to have a vendor terminal option for use in the alliances such that anyone can walk up to a terminal, select a store, and buy items. 5% "tax" per item purchase paid to the Alliance of the store owner for this option, that way there's no startup fee required or tax-over-time required in NC as NC's day/night cycles make little sense to begin with. UNLIKE the current CM alliance chat option, Mil Base would have access to both NC and DoY alliance stores, as would TH-based terminals.
Something simple, something that doesn't rely on NPCs...
assuming the shops ever arrive, they'll be broken and bugged to hell anyway. other than that good idea.
Newbies have to learn how to first buy a crappy weapon at a weapon dealer hidden somewhere, then scream at trade to find a resser, then be yelled at because they didn't bring enough lube, then find a recycler to make the weapon part 8s and 9s for them, then find a conster, then figure out which mods they can use, find a conster again. etc. etc. At each step they can run into someone dishonest that steals their stuff (lost over 1M worth of armor part 10 to someone who claimed to be a barterer) or lies about his skills (got a 59% damage tl3 heal once from a person who claimed he had 220 CST skill). So basically every newbie has to learn everything a conster knows and everything a resser knows and basically every secret of the trade just to get a bloody tl10 weapon that doesn't suck, that he'll use for the next hour or two.
What he said! Nicely put.
Asurmen Spec Op
25-12-04, 00:12
make it so that only the barter can get a shop but he can rent it out to three people, for free or for cost,
If your to god damn lazy to spam trade for something THEN GO GET IT YOURSELF
I dont see how we NEED playershops, they help but if ya need em go play fucking EQ
Jesterthegreat
25-12-04, 00:25
just talked to Brammers and got a great idea :
Have like different sized shops :
(a stack of 20 is 20 items not 1)
Small Shop:
Barter : 30
Room for 20 items
Medium Shop:
barter : 70
Roomfor 100 items
Large Shop:
Barter : 100
Room for 200 items
Huge Shop:
Barter : 150
Room for 500 items
----------------------------------------------
Make an entrance in Tech Haven, where you will enter a large hall full of apartments with public entrances, where people can setup their shop, (they have to buy a room in this place first) and then they can decorate their shop the way they want it with furniture.
Safe zone of course.
other than a non barterer should be able to do a small shop i agree
Latent Entropy
25-12-04, 01:02
Have like different sized shops :
(a stack of 20 is 20 items not 1)
Small Shop:
Barter : 30
Room for 20 items
Medium Shop:
barter : 70
Roomfor 100 items
Large Shop:
Barter : 100
Room for 200 items
Huge Shop:
Barter : 150
Room for 500 items
Thinking through this quite a bit, and i think its not a bad idea, i mean theres nothing stopping a runner with 30 barter opening up a chain of small shops, instead of dedicating alot of skill points for a Hugh Shop, it would mean more hassle for the runner yes, but wouldnt it still be worth it???
"(a stack of 20 is 20 items not 1)"
I dont agree with this however. Either keep the stackable items stackable with there 249, or in some cases 250, or change the stack limit to 100 or something, still high enough to satisfy the customers need.
Sir ramic hobbs
25-12-04, 02:13
Blah screw having to invest precious NC's on setting up a shop do it like this ehhhhh. I think it was Everquest that used the system where there was a button you pressed that made "AFK" appear above you head then if people clicked on you it opened a NPC style window where you could buy the AFk players items if they were for sale. If you just had Shop appear above a runners head then if you are the person in question who wants to set up shop you could set a price for your items (those that you havent priced not for sale) and all people do is click on you and shazzam a YO's vendor style purchase/sell window appears. This system would make player shops easy to find and easier for KK to set up rather than creating tons of new apts and shit which KK would probably lose track of and lose all your stuff for you. Im almost certain this idea would appeal to everybody.
hehe not a bad idea.. i wish they throw in the player shops soon though :rolleyes: been waiting for that for ages, i think i remember it being talked about in early nc1
I agree with Sir hobbs, just keep it simple, so everyone can make a shop, not just a specialized character.....
Lineage 2 had a simple set up(and similar to EQ's), that anyone could set up a shop and make money.....
Simple shop interface, one for a "Buy" store and one for a "Sell" store, even noobs could figure it out.....
Sorry but I think it is a crap idea. Your excluding a large part of the player base if this were to be implemented.
I'd like to see the stores open up in a citycom like interface. Think of it as each person running a store is using a webpage to sell their wares. You order it from the webpage/citycomm page and you are instantly charged, and it is instantly delivered to your inventory. And given that the terminals in TH3 are set up the way they are I dont think we'll be seeing the stores as apartments.
Player shops are redundant full stop.
It's just like trade channel with bells on it.
Sure - it's open 24/7...
But you can't haggle like you can with a player. You also can't trade items/service.
They're nice... But redundant.
IMO... Feel free to disagree.
Asurmen Spec Op
25-12-04, 19:46
Player shops are redundant full stop.
It's just like trade channel with bells on it.
Sure - it's open 24/7...
But you can't haggle like you can with a player. You also can't trade items/service.
They're nice... But redundant.
IMO... Feel free to disagree.
this is why your in my sig
sexy!
(ps see my click2pay thread )
well, I can see some of your points of view.
However, I have to say that the reason i chose Barter was that :
A person doesnīt just open up a shop without having the slightest insight in economy and financiality.
That was my main basis for the idea of Barter.
However I can see especially the povīs about barter being a problem for researching and constructing, especially at the high lvls.
But if a shop was for everyone, then why even bother with player shops..
Player shops will be totally worthless if it was for everyone.. it would just be there to sell for you when you were offline, and allow you to do other things whilst trying to sell.
Instead of it actually being a reward for dedicating some of your char to the cause.
So if thatīs the way you want it, the way I understand your posts. Then screw player shops.. Itīs not what you want, not what you have been waiting for...
You want a bazaar not a shop.
So...
@KK : Might wanna take this up before you go on creating your player shops..
Player Shops VS Bazaars
Jesterthegreat
25-12-04, 23:24
Player shops will be totally worthless if it was for everyone.. it would just be there to sell for you when you were offline, and allow you to do other things whilst trying to sell.
wasnt that the whole point? people bitch about the item dist but say it will be ok when player shops are in to sell shit?
wasnt that the whole point? people bitch about the item dist but say it will be ok when player shops are in to sell shit?
cant you do that already ? sort of..
you have the custom messages A-Z, that you can spam in channels with a single click, whilst out hunting, and then you can break off the hunt for 5 minutes whilst you do the trade, and then go back to your hunt.
You can just have a message in your Text Cache, and press arrow up and repeat message whilst hunting or whatever.
The only difference will be that it wont be the items you advertize for, it will be YOUR shop, and if everyone has a shop, then there will be the same amount of spam, just containing :
Shop Name
Shop Location
Items in Shop
which could be an even greater spam message, which really wouldnīt have saved anything except a GR trip for the one selling.
Where instead the person wanting to buy something has to GR to maybe 15 different locations, or walk into maybe 2000 shops to find a NOT empty store, since everyone wont have something to sell at all times, but a Constructor might.
besides that, a bazaar would be easily made accessible from all over the neocron world, and could act as a goguardian with a payment script, where you could get the item instantly delivered.
This would ofcourse be a positive thing compared to the player shop where the customer would have to go to location to see the selection, instead of seeing every item for sale all over the world in 1 simple "vendor".
So basically, a bazaar would be easier and more practical, where a player shop could be individual and comfy and really nice location, where a person could really show the creativity they posses.
Jesterthegreat
25-12-04, 23:39
players wont have to be logged on. this will mean when you decide to make a new SF at 4am you wont have to spam asking for cst licenses... wander over to TH and check a few shops. i would hope you can name or give them a title though...
personally i havent had issues with items... the only problems i had was trying to get a TL81 plasma wave, but this is what the people want player shops for... to counter the item distribution system.
personally i dont rate them as important, but thats just me
:edit: your right a bazzar would be easier to access than loads of shops.
but this is what the people want player shops for... to counter the item distribution system.
And that's one of the reasons I can't see them happening - you don't write a new sentence to contradict the previous - you rewrite the sentence. If KK weren't happy with item distribution, they wouldn't put shops in, they'd rework the system.
Jesterthegreat
25-12-04, 23:45
And that's one of the reasons I can't see them happening - you don't write a new sentence to contradict the previous - you rewrite the sentence. If KK weren't happy with item distribution, they wouldn't put shops in, they'd rework the system.
or they would do neither,just leave us with an annoying item dist setup and no player shops :(
or they would do neither,just leave us with an annoying item dist setup and no player shops :(
And this buddy is the one I fear we're stuck with. The only way I get the hard to finds at the mo is by getting in touch with forum users. It sucks.
The plus side to a player shop is - if you've been a dick to someone, they can outright refuse to sell you something. If they have a shop, the only way they are going to stop you buying it, is to take it out of the shop from everyone.
Another thing,
If shops were implemented - how would they account for people with barter skills? Would barters get money off player shops? Should players have to go through the headache having to come up with fair prices, while still breaking even, just because they have to take into account the barter skill?
IMO - an unneccesary headache. But again - as I say - there are (and I know there are!) many ways In which I am wrong!
Player shops are nothing but a novelty though, to me anyway.
Asurmen Spec Op
26-12-04, 05:44
And this buddy is the one I fear we're stuck with. The only way I get the hard to finds at the mo is by getting in touch with forum users. It sucks.
The plus side to a player shop is - if you've been a dick to someone, they can outright refuse to sell you something. If they have a shop, the only way they are going to stop you buying it, is to take it out of the shop from everyone.
Another thing,
If shops were implemented - how would they account for people with barter skills? Would barters get money off player shops? Should players have to go through the headache having to come up with fair prices, while still breaking even, just because they have to take into account the barter skill?
IMO - an unneccesary headache. But again - as I say - there are (and I know there are!) many ways In which I am wrong!
Player shops are nothing but a novelty though, to me anyway.
are you related in any way to a higher being/god?
Your posts are more uber then pie
evil pie at that
Jesterthegreat
26-12-04, 17:22
are you related in any way to a higher being/god?
Your posts are more uber then pie
evil pie at that
is he not allowed to not care about player shops?
i dont care about them either... wanna "MOCK" me?
have fun
Asurmen Spec Op
26-12-04, 18:51
is he not allowed to not care about player shops?
i dont care about them either... wanna "MOCK" me?
have fun ????
dude I wasnt sarcastic
I think they are a novelty
PS: I wouldnt mock ya
And that's one of the reasons I can't see them happening - you don't write a new sentence to contradict the previous- you rewrite the sentence.Yeah... are you playing the same game I've been playing for the past three and a half years? :-)
If KK weren't happy with item distribution, they wouldn't put shops in, they'd rework the system.Shops were promised from the get-go for NC2. They're meant to be used instead of the vendors, if possible. If KK had their way, there would be no NPCs to sell things to players, just player shops.
The plus side to a player shop is - if you've been a dick to someone, they can outright refuse to sell you something. If they have a shop, the only way they are going to stop you buying it, is to take it out of the shop from everyone.What precludes the use of a do-not-sell list? Do not sell to player/clan/faction/alliance settings? Sell to only player/clan/faction/alliance?
If shops were implemented - how would they account for people with barter skills?Ignore it? Allow its usage but have the seller get full price? Force sellers to compensate for barterers by jacking up prices?
I would like player shops. It would make it easier for me to sell database-constructed items and extra rareparts.
barter skill on player shops = yes.
item size shops is a rather bad idea, since many ppl are consting large stacks. so probably better to go by item type with no limit on stack size.
this of course reduces the size of a shop and to get everyone into business the small shops are free
free shop
2 item types
BRT 50 shop
5 item types
BRT 80 shop
8 item types
BRT 110 shop
12 item types
the free shop should be enough for freelance pvm ppl or tradeskillers to sell their loot, weaps or const stacks of items.
i dont think its a good idea to let shops carry too much items, cuz it will only result in "carry-all" shops rather than in specialized player vendors (runner xy's ppu shop ie. )
but thats just my cents. only a opinion.
barter skill on player shops = yes.
item size shops is a rather bad idea, since many ppl are consting large stacks. so probably better to go by item type with no limit on stack size.
this of course reduces the size of a shop and to get everyone into business the small shops are free
free shop
2 item types
BRT 50 shop
5 item types
BRT 80 shop
8 item types
BRT 110 shop
12 item types
the free shop should be enough for freelance pvm ppl or tradeskillers to sell their loot, weaps or const stacks of items.
i dont think its a good idea to let shops carry too much items, cuz it will only result in "carry-all" shops rather than in specialized player vendors (runner xy's ppu shop ie. )
but thats just my cents. only a opinion.
That's pretty good actually, seeing as people can't sell everything under the sun - it leaves the market open for others to sell stuff too.
Problem with existing system: Very unbalanced availability of items, especialy needed mid level equipment. Also, the amount of work required to get new player items is really daunting.
Reason for current problem: Movement of imps/weapons from mob drop or easily accessed stores to specific faction only shops or hacknet databases.
Which would be ok..: The entire concept is hinged on player's selling/interacting. Members of apropriate faction buy items from their faction and then sell to members of other factions. Also hackers can fill in by stealing blue prints from enemy faction databases and obtaining items that way aswell.
Except: Between the radical imbalances between factions and the really low populations, you simply can't rely on people being online and available to sell items to you.
Solution: Player shops which allow members of a faction to sell items (at a higher price) wether they're online or not. If you are in need of a holy shelter, you can either hunt down a crahn (who's not busy, has enough faction symp, and is friendly) or visit a shop with items from a crahn runner.
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