View Full Version : Why are spies getting ripped off?
SigmaDraconis
23-12-04, 11:18
No I'm not a spy who got **********, just noticed something playing with making a char tonight....
here's the starting stats and starting free points in parenthesis for every class...notice something wrong?
GenTank INT:1(10) STR:5(78) CON:4(40) DEX:2(20) PSI:1(2) TOTAL:13(150)
PrivateEye INT:3(20) STR:3(40) CON:3(10) DEX:3(78) PSI:1(2) TOTAL:13(150)
PsiMonk INT:4(40) STR:1(2) CON:1(10) DEX:2(20) PSI:5(78) TOTAL:13(150)
Spy INT:5(78) STR:2(10) CON:2(10) DEX:3(40) PSI:1(2) TOTAL:13(140)
right...did u catch that? spies only start with 140 spare points even tho they have the same 13 levels as every other class so basically at cap theyre still 10 points behind every other class... wtf? Spies starting with less DEX points than PE's Is one thing, always knew that was the case granted i didnt realise how MANY more PE's always started with. but anyway a PE starting at level 3 DEX, can gain 77 more levels (thats 385 points) plus their starting 78 (535 in DEX at cap) spies can gain 97 more (485) but only end up with a total of 525 when u factor in the starting points...PE's and spies have access to the same imps without drugs...hell the reqs of SA were even reduced to make it easier for PE's, so they can get the same potential bonuses to DEX skills. Granted without drugs spies can have access to higher TL weapons than a PE, but the PE will always cap them easier (albeit only 2 levels at cap), this doesnt really make much sense that a JoaT can specialize more than a specialist?? I could go off on a tangent about KK apparently depicting spies main roles as tradeskillers and not combatants but thats not really my concern... I simply think spies should get those extra 10 points they deserve, hell they dont even have to be in DEX (that would just help fulfill the template KK is currently using for stat balances, allowing both classes to perform equally on weapons they both have access to but letting spies have access to higher TL weps more easily) I'm sure not too many spies would complain about getting these 10 points in CON aswell, its not much but every little bit helps. I really don't see any negetive effects to doing this, it wont even effect PE's or their role in combat(or lack thereof) its mainly for peice of mind and a sense of balance for the poor wittwe spies out there :P
So what do you think should spies get their 10 points back in some area or another?
You may want to add Eats, Shoots and Leaves (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1861976127/026-5586119-5990018) to your Christmas present list.
Athon Solo :p
Here, Here
I love spies, and imho they are a very versatile class and should not be the subject of less points, especially considering how weak our armor/resists are :/
Give them another 10 points in psi power, that means if you setup for shelter you don't have only 4 ppw :lol:
You've got stealth.
EOC.
And monks have holy lightning...
point being ?
[...]but anyway a PE starting at level 3 DEX, can gain 77 more levels (thats 385 points) plus their starting 78 (535 in DEX at cap) spies can gain 97 more (485) but only end up with a total of 525 when u factor in the starting points
well imho 385 + 78 = 463 and not 535 ;)
I'll have to check myself later if this is true, but if it is, yeah whats with that?
And "because we have stealth" ? stealth means you can run away and hide, while being able to do little more than put on medi packs and stam boosters, besides when a spy stealths off you know he/she can't hurt you.. why bitch about stealth?
If we do ever find our lost 10 points, i agree it should be put in Psi.
You've got stealth.
EOC.
pe's had stealth?? and didn't have 10 points missing :lol:
the extra 10 points should be put into psi imo
why are they missing anyway?
spys get 20 con points, not 10 !!!!
spys get 20 con points, not 10 !!!!
thats correct actually
Jesterthegreat
23-12-04, 14:39
if the points are not even between classes then they should be.
all there is to it really
FACT:
Spies have the widest range of weaponry/accessories available to them, they stealth. they have one of the widest selections of implants available, are more customisable than even the PE if set up right.
10 points at cap gets you what? +2 to a skill?
Sorry - I'd rather keep the wide range of choices I can make TYVM.
FACT:
Spies have the widest range of weaponry/accessories available to them, they stealth. they have one of the widest selections of implants available, are more customisable than even the PE if set up right.
10 points at cap gets you what? +2 to a skill?
Sorry - I'd rather keep the wide range of choices I can make TYVM.
so now that weve discovered that they dont really only have 140 as opposed to 150, they should get a nerf?
Spy INT:5(78) STR:2(10) CON:2(10) DEX:3(40) PSI:1(2) TOTAL:13(140)
spys get 20 con points, not 10 !!!!
Case closed lets go for ice cream.....
got to love threads where the whole whine is well...wrong.
so now that weve discovered that they dont really only have 140 as opposed to 150, they should get a nerf?
Nah - I was making a point that whether they had those 10 or not - 2 points on a capskill isn't that much anyways. and If they were to recieve a nerf, then it wouldn't be that back breaking...
Not that I'm saying spies should be nerfed! :p
Latent Entropy
23-12-04, 16:24
Didnt a long long time ago in a Neocron far far away spy's could have 177 as there cap skill? And there starter stats was reworked?
And there starter stats was reworked?Spies used to get 82 INT XP points to start with. A retail patch removed four of those points to make our starter mainstats the same as everyone else's. This was before you could carry unused points over from char creation, I think.
used to be also @ char creation that placing points didnt follow the same rules. all points in a skill only cost one skill point. not the 51-75 @ 2 each and etc. So if you had 70 skill points to place in int then you could research tl 70 right out of creation, or hack tl 70 which ever. then they changed it.
Case closed lets go for ice cream.....
got to love threads where the whole whine is well...wrong.
lol off to pp pub i'm buyin :D
SigmaDraconis
23-12-04, 21:05
arg u know whats sad? I triple checked that..............
Ive no clue how I wound up with 535 o.O
Im going to stop doing math at..erm...4 am, I'm still pretty confident Neoskiller is bugged to shite tho :D
[EDIT] really wasnt whining Genty, if spies were 10 points off you dont think itd be fair to simply give it to them to balance out their stat caps? I'm glad someone checked my math though :D
/hides in corner with dunce cap
And monks have holy lightning...
point being ?
Does HL give you the possibility to disappear so that ppl can't see/hit you?
Stealth = partial GOD mode. AOE and TSS are the only things that can retaliate that.
Does HL give you the possibility to disappear so that ppl can't see/hit you?
Stealth = partial GOD mode. AOE and TSS are the only things that can retaliate that.
Wrong...
APU can easily kill the spy before he stealths with HL, or he could use Fire Apoc which would easily kill a spy and you can see the burning after they stealth, same with poison beam.
Hell even PE's can track them using Damage boost!
BS..try chasing this one particular spy on terra...
and db? yea pop a drug.
resists? yea pop another drug.
poison? drugs.
para? drugs.
Sigh.. yes, the stealth is particular GOD mode, if you have good consetup and are a drugwhore, then it sure is fucking hard to kill you, no matter how.
Jesterthegreat
23-12-04, 22:13
Stealth = partial GOD mode. AOE and TSS are the only things that can retaliate that.
thats a whole different topic (one i and alot of other "non-spy" people agree with.)
BS..try chasing this one particular spy on terra...
and db? yea pop a drug.
resists? yea pop another drug.
poison? drugs.
para? drugs.
Sigh.. yes, the stealth is particular GOD mode, if you have good consetup and are a drugwhore, then it sure is fucking hard to kill you, no matter how.
So stealthing really is used to wait out drug flashes. I mean if he's popping that many drugs he'll just crouch and wait for you to kill him! Also you can still hit stealther's with plasma weapons if your close enough (some people will understand what i mean).
Jesterthegreat
23-12-04, 22:30
So stealthing really is used to wait out drug flashes. I mean if he's popping that many drugs he'll just crouch and wait for you to kill him! Also you can still hit stealther's with plasma weapons if your close enough (some people will understand what i mean).
poor low tech riflers...no AoE or plasma...
fuck them eh?
Does HL give you the possibility to disappear so that ppl can't see/hit you?
Stealth = partial GOD mode. AOE and TSS are the only things that can retaliate that.
<-- Agree's with jester, this topic is about spy's losing 10 points off character creation, has nothing to do with stealth.
Though if spy's do get 20 points in con, then that's that, if not, gimme an extra 10 psi points :D
There's no need for 10 extra points on a spy... The spy is already the most versatile class next to the PE, and he can be very effective in combat as it is.
There's no need for 10 extra points on a spy... The spy is already the most versatile class next to the PE, and he can be very effective in combat as it is.
So because of this, he gets 10 less subskill points then everyone else? 10 less then the PE even, who is aparantly more "versatile" then him/her?
The PE is more versatile, but he's not as effective in all his professions as the specialized classes (tanks, spies, monks) Spies can already take on almost any class and be victorious... I'd say giving a spy 10 extra points somewhere would either do nothing, or make him overpowered... so no, there's no need for the points
Does HL give you the possibility to disappear so that ppl can't see/hit you?
Stealth = partial GOD mode. AOE and TSS are the only things that can retaliate that.
Funny god mode. You can't heal (well, you can use medpacks, but they're useless against anything in pvp). You can run, but the enemy may be able to follow you. Oh yeah, and you may appear to be stealthed to yourself, but not to your enemies.
Also, in my experiance, any lock obtained before you hit stealth is retained during stealth.
And you say AoE like nothnig is AoE, yet tanks primarily use AoE, monks carry AoE - even pistol spies have AoE. Rifle spies don't.
Oh, and can I have some of whatever the hell mishkin is smoking please. If any class is overpowered, it's the PE. A rifle PE can use s/d, (probably blessed - don't play one so don't know for sure) heal, heal sanctum, damage boost and be as good as any spy with most rifles, has more con, more strength - leading to better armor.
Athon Solo
Jesterthegreat
24-12-04, 14:16
Funny god mode. You can't heal (well, you can use medpacks, but they're useless against anything in pvp). You can run, but the enemy may be able to follow you. Oh yeah, and you may appear to be stealthed to yourself, but not to your enemies. other than the not stealthed for others bug non of these have anything to do with "god mode".
Also, in my experiance, any lock obtained before you hit stealth is retained during stealth. spells / guns part way through firing will continue hitting (and spells which cast quicker than the animation... stupid animations). this is something that also needs looking into, but it doesnt mean the stealth problem doesnt exist.
And you say AoE like nothnig is AoE, yet tanks primarily use AoE, monks carry AoE - even pistol spies have AoE. Rifle spies don't. tried being a solo APU or tank, running after a little blue cloud firing AoE recently? try it. watch your health plummet at least as quick as the spies. oh and pistols... your joking right? unless it has changed recently the highest TL rocket pistol does less damage than the lowest level HC rocket launcher...
Oh, and can I have some of whatever the hell mishkin is smoking please. If any class is overpowered, it's the PE. A rifle PE can use s/d, (probably blessed - don't play one so don't know for sure) heal, heal sanctum, damage boost and be as good as any spy with most rifles, has more con, more strength - leading to better armor. PE can not use any blessed spells... think spy psi, with shelter undrugged... but haz 1 / br3 with drugs. oh and the well setup defence PE's cannot use all rifles... without taking a hell of alot of drugs. oh and the majority use inq 2... not that much higher than what a spy can reach.
Athon Solo
Jesterthegreat
Case closed lets go for ice cream.....
got to love threads where the whole whine is well...wrong.
too cold for ice cream :(...
on the other hand, an up for mince pies instead!
virgil caine
24-12-04, 21:08
You've got stealth.
EOC.
I agree,
Give PE's Stealth 1
I agree,
Give PE's Stealth 1
Deadleh.
Deadleh, deadleh, deadleh.
A PE with a close range weapon and more staying power than a spy =/
It's a good idea, but I just think it'd make th PE a bit on the overpowered side, for anywhere you can't get in 10 seconds, there's a shite side more places that you can.
QuantumDelta
24-12-04, 21:38
I'd rather see PEs get something else than go through the Stealth debacle again.
And See Stealth properly fixed.
Oh, and can I have some of whatever the hell mishkin is smoking please. If any class is overpowered, it's the PE. A rifle PE can use s/d, (probably blessed - don't play one so don't know for sure) heal, heal sanctum, damage boost and be as good as any spy with most rifles, has more con, more strength - leading to better armor.
dunno why, but that gave me a chuckle...
Latent Entropy
24-12-04, 23:57
Also, in my experiance, any lock obtained before you hit stealth is retained during stealth.
I wondered why i was still getting hit even when i was stealthed.
Thanks for clearing that up.
PE can not use any blessed spells... think spy psi, with shelter undrugged... but haz 1 / br3 with drugs. oh and the well setup defence PE's cannot use all rifles... without taking a hell of alot of drugs. oh and the majority use inq 2... not that much higher than what a spy can reach.
Jesterthegreat
Wrong! A PE can use blessed Deflector (PSI: 35 PPU: 68 MST: 46 (not sure about mst i forget). Why a PE can use blessed deflector i dont know, they already have much high pierce/force armor than a spy can get and its easy for a PE to spec alot of resist force).
Also PE's can easily cap heal, heal sanctum, get much better shelter stats and have decent blessed Deflector stats too!
Jesterthegreat
25-12-04, 02:15
Wrong! A PE can use blessed Deflector (PSI: 35 PPU: 68 MST: 46 (not sure about mst i forget). Why a PE can use blessed deflector i dont know, they already have much high pierce/force armor than a spy can get and its easy for a PE to spec alot of resist force).
Also PE's can easily cap heal, heal sanctum, get much better shelter stats and have decent blessed Deflector stats too!
my bad...
however not while using PA (without a shitty setup), and te stats suck... capped TL3 works out better from what i have seen.
my bad...
however not while using PA (without a shitty setup), and te stats suck... capped TL3 works out better from what i have seen.
Yeah, sorry blessed deflector stats aren't all that great... but a PE can use damage boost which makes them much more powerful than people lead you to believe.
I really don't see how people can say spies have almost the same resists as a PE. They have 25 lvl's less CON thats 125 points (i think). Also without an SA you can't use the zerk2, moveon, STR booster 2 setup and still use heavy energy belt on a spy(without taking a DEX drug that is). And your p-c or r-c will be much lower too.
Its easier to setup a PE and take redflash or whiteflash maybe even both and use the high end rifles/pistols and get almost the same stats on them as a spy (or better if the spy is trying to use Inq1 armor), than it is for a Spy to change 2 or 3 implants to STR implants and still need to take 2 drugs to be combat effective (STR drug and Nightspider).
Hopefully that makes what i'm trying to say abit clearer.
Jesterthegreat
25-12-04, 02:37
Yeah, sorry blessed deflector stats aren't all that great... but a PE can use damage boost which makes them much more powerful than people lead you to believe.
I really don't see how people can say spies have almost the same resists as a PE. They have 25 lvl's less CON thats 125 points (i think). Also without an SA you can't use the zerk2, moveon, STR booster 2 setup and still use heavy energy belt on a spy(without taking a DEX drug that is). And your p-c or r-c will be much lower too.
Its easier to setup a PE and take redflash or whiteflash maybe even both and use the high end rifles/pistols and get almost the same stats on them as a spy (or better if the spy is trying to use Inq1 armor), than it is for a Spy to change 2 or 3 implants to STR implants and still need to take 2 drugs to be combat effective (STR drug and Nightspider).
Hopefully that makes what i'm trying to say abit clearer.
http://forum.neocron.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6800
hmmm...
Funny god mode. You can't heal (well, you can use medpacks, but they're useless against anything in pvp). You can run, but the enemy may be able to follow you. Oh yeah, and you may appear to be stealthed to yourself, but not to your enemies.
Also, in my experiance, any lock obtained before you hit stealth is retained during stealth.
And you say AoE like nothnig is AoE, yet tanks primarily use AoE, monks carry AoE - even pistol spies have AoE. Rifle spies don't.
Athon Solo
[ edited ]
Yes, you can use the stealth, disappear from everyones eyes, unstealth, heal, rebuff, jack off, stealth, and go back. Or you can just hit the obliterator and log off.
Oh yeah, like every tank carries 2-3 rares with em? Yes, only in OPwars. Same goes for apus, do you carry the whole arsenal of your weapons 24/7? i doubt.
And who the fuck cares anyways? Spies can use HL + Stealth. Just unstealth sooooooooooooo far away that you cannot be seen, and just blast the enemy with the HL.. roxord ur boxors. anybody without shelter is gone. If you'r lucky, you just might to see where the shooter is, but you can't see him hitting you.. pwned.
so fuck it. i don't need Stealth to my hightech PE. I would pwn you all with my HL and STEALTH..
http://forum.neocron.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6800
hmmm...
Ok all i'll say is it requires an SA as i said above. However that setup is a nice variation on one i had thought about using. However i still hate having to drug all the time just to be effective.
I have a tech pistol PE and low-tech rifle PE. Niether require drugs and have decent resists (i wouldnt say they're great though). People say PE's are underpowered but really a PE using terminator can rip you to shreads in 3 shots! And libby PE's really hurt like hell.
I'm actually quite impressed with that setup, but i hate the fact it revolves around using 2 drugs. Using 1 drugs ie. nightspider i can deal with but 2 is just annoying.
Heres an idea make a pistol PE setup using Nightspider and Beast and see how his resists turn out.
Ok all i'll say is it requires an SA as i said above. However that setup is a nice variation on one i had thought about using. However i still hate having to drug all the time just to be effective.
I have a tech pistol PE and low-tech rifle PE. Niether require drugs and have decent resists (i wouldnt say they're great though). People say PE's are underpowered but really a PE using terminator can rip you to shreads in 3 shots! And libby PE's really hurt like hell.
I'm actually quite impressed with that setup, but i hate the fact it revolves around using 2 drugs. Using 1 drugs ie. nightspider i can deal with but 2 is just annoying.
Heres an idea make a pistol PE setup using Nightspider and Beast and see how his resists turn out.
You get alot more... but you can only use a low TL rare still so thats the difrence
QuantumDelta
25-12-04, 08:43
He didn't post his best setup, don't be mislead, Jester knows Spies can reach even higher than that.
Hense the "Hmm." :p
Spies are in no way inferior to PEs anymore.
DB?
Sure, fine if there's no PPU Around.
But seriously, when there is a PPU around, PEs use DB basically to take the strain off the PPUs.
And that's the be all and end all of what good they are.
Other than being the best Noob Buffers I guess.
If the Low-Tech Line of weaponry available to the PE were made PE only and then boosted accordingly to compete with the other weapons, it would suite me fine.
Before people whine:
PEs who are on the verge of being useless even in 1on1 environments, do like the whole op war presense too.
Hybrids are not what they used to be at all but still usable at op wars.
sigh.
Jesterthegreat
25-12-04, 09:36
He didn't post his best setup, don't be mislead, Jester knows Spies can reach even higher than that.
Hense the "Hmm." :p.
yup... its one of my old 5 minuite setups rippid from a thread when we last discussed it :)
an it requires an SA... so? i dont bother setting up a char without an mc5 anymore, unless its something like a HC PE.
and i hate beast... my low tech pe used inq 3 without drugs :p
having low tech weapons as a completly different weapon system thingy, to high tech and made PE only is something ive thought about for ages, and the only conclusion is that it'd be sweet....
QuantumDelta
25-12-04, 13:00
MkV:
I'm grasping at straws these days, trying to find something...anything, that'll move anything slightly closer to balance that this idiot community might like.
Will anything that ever makes sense logically be accepted?
Yea......Right....
Edit;
And, on the tone of diplomacy..
Can people please not comment on classes they don't play...
$tormbringer
25-12-04, 13:10
If any class is overpowered, it's the PE. A rifle PE can use s/d, (probably blessed - don't play one so don't know for sure) heal, heal sanctum, damage boost and be as good as any spy with most rifles, has more con, more strength - leading to better armor.
rfl :O nice post...
a spy can use shelter and dboost, can cap his eps with ease and have a pe armor setup... the only thing a pe has that a spy cant have is the haz/heat1 or basic3 and blessed deflector.... thats all... the armor is no real point coz as a spy u have the infiltration suit (xrr) and heavy belts....
i as a spy player think that stealth should get a nerf... maybe make it uusable after u stealthed once... or reduce stealth to stealth 2 or something like that
Will anything that ever makes sense logically be accepted?
Yea......Right.... heh, the problem is very few people look at the big picture, if it reduces their own power, they dont like it,if something gets boosted, and is therefore harder to kill, even if its still easy to kill, they wont like it because it adversly affects them...
rfl :O nice post...
a spy can use shelter and dboost, can cap his eps with ease and have a pe armor setup... the only thing a pe has that a spy cant have is the haz/heat1 or basic3 and blessed deflector.... thats all... the armor is no real point coz as a spy u have the infiltration suit (xrr) and heavy belts....
i as a spy player think that stealth should get a nerf... maybe make it uusable after u stealthed once... or reduce stealth to stealth 2 or something like that
A spy CAN'T use DB no matter what (not like it matters because of the SF you would get :().
A spy CAN'T use DB no matter what (not like it matters because of the SF you would get :().
well a spy can, just so gimped he does infact spawn in a leather suit and mask...so you might as well say he can't
well a spy can, just so gimped he does infact spawn in a leather suit and mask...so you might as well say he can't
He has to put in a ppu head imp to DB and take 2 drugs
i made it 4 drugs to put em in yeah, thats why i said you might as well say he cant
Jesterthegreat
25-12-04, 20:21
T X tested a DB using spy... its possible but not worth doing.
Heavy belts in my opinion are underpowered.... I mean a pe using med energy belt can easily with resists and PA get over 120 armor resist even 140+ armor resist.
Not so easy for a spy to do that at all, and still have fire resist.
Just look at the Holy Spirit Belt's stats now wouldn't something like that be more useful to spies? or just simply boost the heavy belts 'slightly ' i do play every class and almost everytype too (lomed melee tank to h-c and doing the same with my PE making him pure h-c now, i'm even going to lom my apu hybrid to ppu and use a UZI just for the hell of it! :p
I dont want spies to become super strong (ie. overpowered) but in the armor/resists stakes they need some loving. Just like low-tech pistol PE's need some loving (pain easer and terminator i think are balanced atm), the libby needs a 'slight ' boost but only slight i dont want it to be the hand cannon it once was (QD knows what im talking about). Hopefully the shotgun pistol may help balance low-tech pistol PE's somewhat.
Oh while we're on the subject of weapon's that need a 'slight ' boost what about the Disruptor? Its been nerfed to hell... and first love aiming well... we all know about that! :rolleyes:
Jesterthegreat
25-12-04, 20:26
Heavy belts in my opinion are underpowered.... I mean a pe using med energy belt can easily with resists and PA get over 120 armor resist even 140+ armor resist.
Not so easy for a spy to do that at all, and still have fire resist.
Just look at the Holy Spirit Belt's stats now wouldn't something like that be more useful to spies? or just simply boost the heavy belts 'slightly ' i do play every class and almost everytype too (lomed melee tank to h-c and doing the same with my PE making him pure h-c now, i'm even going to lom my apu hybrid to ppu and use a UZI just for the hell of it! :p
I dont want spies to become super strong (ie. overpowered) but in the armor/resists stakes they need some loving. Just like low-tech pistol PE's need some loving (pain easer and terminator i think are balanced atm), the libby needs a 'slight ' boost but only slight i dont want it to be the hand cannon it once was (QD knows what im talking about). Hopefully the shotgun pistol may help balance low-tech pistol PE's somewhat.
Oh while we're on the subject of weapon's that need a 'slight ' boost what about the Disruptor? Its been nerfed to hell... and first love aiming well... we all know about that! :rolleyes:
go back a page and look at a setup i made in 5 mins... like 185 pc, 115 dex, good resists and about 400 health (skillmanagaers tend to show lower than ingame shows health wise). this relies on a beast for armour... thats it. a nightspider for shelter is definatly recommended though.
go back a page and look at a setup i made in 5 mins... like 185 pc, 115 dex, good resists and about 400 health (skillmanagaers tend to show lower than ingame shows health wise). this relies on a beast for armour... thats it. a nightspider for shelter is definatly recommended though.
Don't get me wrong i'm not saying spies can't get decent resists but a PE's is easily much higher and they have another 40-60 more health plus easily capped heal.
A PE using the same head implants as that spy setup you could have 140+ armor resists and about 180 p-c approx. and he'd have higher stats on his shelter therefore further reducing the damage taken.
On the note about belts i was just commenting on how little resists a belt that requires 98 INT gives especially considering it only gives 1 type of armor resist.
Jesterthegreat
25-12-04, 20:33
Don't get me wrong i'm not saying spies can't get decent resists but a PE's is easily much higher and they have another 40-60 more health plus easily capped heal.
A PE using the same head implants as that spy setup you could have 140+ armor resists and about 180 p-c approx. and he'd have higher stats on his shelter therefore further reducing the damage taken.
On the note about belts i was just commenting on how little resists a belt that requires 98 INT gives especially considering it only gives 1 type of armor resist.
he wouldnt use TL 115 guns though... which that spy setup allows for.
:edit: i could make a purely defensive spy... but i make PvP setups and with spy dex why not allow for all guns of your chosen type?
he wouldnt use TL 115 guns though... which that spy setup allows for.
:edit: i could make a purely defensive spy... but i make PvP setups and with spy dex why not allow for all guns of your chosen type?
I see your point there. Although Disruptor Spy vs Pain Easer PE or Terminator PE i think we can be quite confident that the PE will win!
Anyways i'm gonna pop ingame for abit i might go into NF for a laugh later... (though i really should do some epics and get me.... 5 Moveon's and 3 Protopharm resistor chips)....
Jesterthegreat
25-12-04, 20:42
I see your point there. Although Disruptor Spy vs Pain Easer PE or Terminator PE i think we can be quite confident that the PE will win!
Anyways i'm gonna pop ingame for abit i might go into NF for a laugh later... (though i really should do some epics and get me.... 5 Moveon's and 3 Protopharm resistor chips)....
its pistol...
exec or slasher...
exec = fantastic if you got the aim
slasher = fantastic if you like your enemy having 3 fps while you spam the left mouse button :lol:
either way spies are not neccisarily worse than PEs these days. it epends on skill and luck (in a fair fight of course... we all know it usually depends on anal PPU's and zerg forces :p)
Heavy belts in my opinion are underpowered.... I mean a pe using med energy belt can easily with resists and PA get over 120 armor resist even 140+ armor resist.
Not so easy for a spy to do that at all, and still have fire resist.
Just look at the Holy Spirit Belt's stats now wouldn't something like that be more useful to spies? or just simply boost the heavy belts 'slightly ' i do play every class and almost everytype too (lomed melee tank to h-c and doing the same with my PE making him pure h-c now, i'm even going to lom my apu hybrid to ppu and use a UZI just for the hell of it! :p
I dont want spies to become super strong (ie. overpowered) but in the armor/resists stakes they need some loving. Just like low-tech pistol PE's need some loving (pain easer and terminator i think are balanced atm), the libby needs a 'slight ' boost but only slight i dont want it to be the hand cannon it once was (QD knows what im talking about). Hopefully the shotgun pistol may help balance low-tech pistol PE's somewhat.
Oh while we're on the subject of weapon's that need a 'slight ' boost what about the Disruptor? Its been nerfed to hell... and first love aiming well... we all know about that! :rolleyes:
The problem with boosting the heavy belts is that you'd also be boosting monks - who certainly don't need it. I say give us dex based armor.
Athon Solo
The problem with boosting the heavy belts is that you'd also be boosting monks - who certainly don't need it. I say give us dex based armor.
Athon Solo
Reactive armour?
The higher the dex, the better the protection? Or - Slotted armour, with modules of varying function, all with varying skill requirements.
Jesterthegreat
25-12-04, 23:48
Reactive armour?
The higher the dex, the better the protection? Or - Slotted armour, with modules of varying function, all with varying skill requirements.
first... dunno how possible it is (or more importantly how bugged it would be with "sweet spots".
second has been suggested since the dawn of time. either kk dont want to or its not possible.
first... dunno how possible it is (or more importantly how bugged it would be with "sweet spots".
second has been suggested since the dawn of time. either kk dont want to or its not possible.
Arrrg, me hearty.
Arrrg.
I do think slotted is the way forward if it is possible.
it would reduce cookiecutteritis if people could free up con points because the can tailor thier armour to accomodate, Varying con setups right there.
Maybe enhancement modules such as lower the str req's (Wieght balanced armour suit anyone?) giving yet more flexibility as people with lower str won't have to waste implant slots...
Basically - the more customisation in ANY field, the less cookiecutterisms we see.
I REALLY hope that it is possible to pull it off.
Spy only DEX: 110 belt maybe? Armor too?
Hell as belts are usually require INT how about a Spy only INT:100 belt's?
problem is, if you boost spy's defences too much, there'll get to a point where a PE only get 20 more HPs and 5% more on Fire and NRG, and that really would sound the death nell of the PE....unless they became "different"....
but then again, i dont play my spy that much anymore...i wouldnt really call my seld up to date on them
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