View Full Version : Lets Talk Healing Light
We are all grown ups here, so a senable disccusion should emerge.
Over the past few weeks, I have heard how a weapon like the healing light is over powered. Then i think of it and look at what the options are
WE have monks with holy light, and fire apoc. Both are dealy and are mid range. Both deal a lot of damage very quickly and only a tank should and can with stand a beating from them.
A Capped spy, is at danger in midrange combat as hit rate of fire is slower, and he needs line of sight.
Then we have Tanks.
I do say, tanks some how seem to have same range with their newly aquired (Last rare NC1) green swirly. Normaly I need to lay 8 shots (Thats 8 shots doing double damage) to actually kill a capped tank. I think the HL spy is weak against this char, its his true nemisis.
Melee tanks, I feel for these, I realy do. A melee tank gets to me, and I vanish and can appear quicker than he can heal , that means I win ... on top of that, most melee tanks some how don't spec enough on agility and Ath so I can out run them. A good setup melee is hard to kill, but needs some good thinking to return the favour of killing a spy
Pistol spies, these boy are evil for rifle dudes. I still jump when a slasher wielding pistol unstealths behind me when I am linning up a shot, and then blow me away (But he cant do that against a monk or melee). I battle to go toe to toe with him, although my damage is more per shot, his rate of fire is deadly. He can also be multi skilled more cause he has to contribute less in weapon lore.
PE's ... I take more shots to kill them, but its rare they kill me, PE's seem to be crap, with the exception of a couple I have seen. I have been gobsmacked by a few, but normaly I can toe to toe with one and survive (There are these exceptions)
I am not saying I am a good PVPer, I run away better than most, and probabky have better tactics, but one on one, no stealth and rush of the moment I am probably a dead spy. Saying this I choose rifle, as it allows me to attack from a distance.
When someone dies to a HL wielding spy, rememebr the game is like rock papper scissors .....
A capped Hl spy, is good at range and struggles with close combat.
Do I think Healing Light is over powered, no, no more than other weapons, I think each class has some strong weapons and some weak ones.
Problem being that, since there is really only 2 sniping type rifles ,HL and SH, and SH is pretty crap, just about every sniping spy uses a HL. Then every time you die to a spy, its to a Healing Light, meaning you think its over powered. I used to be a SH killer, but rate of fire, and shoot missing maeks this not viable .... Imaige the dude who sniped JFK with his rifle. He sitting there, waiting , aiming, taken his time, wham shoots and it hits next a WB to JFK's right ?
Reloading a sniper rifle, if for some reason it can't hold multiple bullets in chamber, I recon it would be quicker to reload than in NC ....
These are my opinions, but then I play a capped rifle spy, so its from my expirience
my only problem with it is not knowing you're getting hit by it at range
my only problem with it is not knowing you're getting hit by it at range
Was just about to type this. This is where SH is better then HL... You dont know
where the shots are comming from, as it should be, but because of a gfx bug
you dont see the HL either, that is why most spies (nowdays) use the HL.
I dont have any problems with the HL dmg wise, just fix the damn gfx bug.
[PiN]Fluffy
22-12-04, 20:59
Exactly. Hl is verystrong. But it needs to be. As long as you can SEE your being hit from range it was PERFECT the way it is. I mean i Know a spy called SPyware who owns in PvP always kills ALL clases at cycrow 1 on 1. ANd even once we bd and Para him he is probably the BIGGEST drug whore i have ever seen Bcz it never sticks more than 10 seconds. SO there are some VERY strong and able spys around. IMO spys right now are Teh Win when it comes to pking. ALso Cornix a member Of FF owns most of the people he comes in contact with. They all may be druggies but hey u gotta do what u gotta do. :wtf:
Was just about to type this. This is where SH is better then HL... You dont know
where the shots are comming from, as it should be, but because of a gfx bug
you dont see the HL either, that is why most spies (nowdays) use the HL.
I dont have any problems with the HL dmg wise, just fix the damn gfx bug.
Agreed, yes the beam should be vissible... This does not mean it is over powered though, but a bug that needs addressing....
Does this not apply to other long range beam weapons like the tank's version, the plasma wave range ?
I must agree pe's are pretty crap yes some have good set ups and are exellent players thus they can do some pretty cool stuff but face it, pe's cant really cap weapos, tanks get MC or HC, Spies get RC or PC, and monks get APU or PPU.
Pe's get just under rc and pc, about half mc and hc, and about 1/4 apu/ppu.
Thus they cant really do a great deal of anything reason for this?
PE = AVERAGE... not specialist,
Spy = Specialist Pistol user, Rifle user, hacker, spy (eg stealthing in and getting info)
Tank - Speical forces eg: Big beefie guys who go in blow stuff up and walk out.
Monk - Specailist in APU and ppu
[PiN]Fluffy
22-12-04, 21:03
Does this not apply to other long range beam weapons like the tank's version, the plasma wave range ?
IDK but there are times i am being hit by rav tanks and cannt see the damed Beam. Same thing fro my tangent epic rilfe. I've killed many people bcz they cannot see the beam coming off it from long range.ANd it's sad when a /50 OWNS u when your capped bcz of a bug.
it might do, but so little tanks actually use the waves ive never noticed, and if they do its not for sniping...
it might do, but so little tanks actually use the waves ive never noticed, and if they do its not for sniping...
You then dont run around with a spy .... Most tanks I run into pack a Rav in their backpack just for killing long range spies ... and seems 2 shots and I am dead :(
pe's cant really cap weapos
I have no problem capping my weapons on my PE... Driving a hovertec and
recycling 15 (skill)
pe's cant really cap weapos
With the recent changes, PEs can cap weapons that they cant in any way what so ever meet the requirements for
Dribble Joy
22-12-04, 21:17
I still maintain that the HL was too powerfull for it's tech level.
TL110
Two more than the RoLH and yet it was considerably more powerful, more so that those 2 tls would give.
As it was I would have been fine if it was a tl120 weapon, powerful and something that a spy would have to stretch to (more PE-spy class definition too).
You can't compare spies to apus, because apu defence is considerably lower than that of even an average spy.
Before we start getting nasty; does anyone actualy got HARD FACTUAL damage figures from before and after the patch?
Rolh seems to do almost no dmg nowadays, so i wouldnt compare HL to such badly nerfed weapon.
Besides the obvious gfx bug, HL is not overpowered in terms of damage. The overpowered feeling comes from the fact that it is the only weapon u can shoot a person 3-4 times in a row before he realise that he's beeing shoot.
Another feeling of overpoweredness comes from the fact that other high end rifle weapons are nerfed to hell and back. Capped disruptor is doing exactly the same dmg as capped HL (due to hellish RoF nerf), capped FL is doing about 30% better dmg than HL and DIS though its aiming is pretty bad, so it needs a lot of practise to use it effectively and still, considering the % of missing shots it deals dmg equal to HL.
My vote is (as i've stated several times): un-nerf the high end weapons, make them viable. SH is bugged, RoG is nerfed, PE is not enough for a spy. We dont have enough weapons to choose from, simply as it is.
Is HL is overpowered in terms of dmg, compared to its TL?
for a good con specced tank HL is doing about 40-50 dmg/per hit, which means at least 8 hits to kill.
for a good con specced PE, buffed, HL is doing even less, around 30-40 dmg -per hit, and around 20% of it can be regenerated by PE's heal - at least 10 hits to kill
for a good con specced monk HL is doing about 50-55 dmg per hit - 6 hits to kill
for a good con specced spy (inq1 that is) HL is doing about 50-60 dmg per hit 7-8 hits to kill
Now, compare those to a dmg dealed by CS, Holy Lightning, Slasher, Pain Easer/Jugg crossbow, Judge. Compare the main weapons of all other classes.
Compare the RoF of those weapons and tell me which one of them is doing less dmg per hit/burst...
/edit/ those are the values from BEFORE the patch. I'll check the current dmg in a sec and post a results here
/edit 2/
here are the results of this "nerf" :lol:
BEFORE the patch, my shitty lvling HL, fire modded was doing 3x98 dmg to a Warbot Titan
AFTER the patch, my shitty lvling HL fire modded is doing 3x94 dmg to a Warbot Titan
so... unless it is some kind of pvp dmg only, it is really a "slight" reduction
Rolh seems to do almost no dmg nowadays, so i wouldnt compare HL to such badly nerfed weapon.
Besides the obvious gfx bug, HL is not overpowered in terms of damage. The overpowered feeling comes from the fact that it is the only weapon u can shoot a person 3-4 times in a row before he realise that he's beeing shoot.
Another feeling of overpoweredness comes from the fact that other high end rifle weapons are nerfed to hell and back. Capped disruptor is doing exactly the same dmg as capped HL (due to hellish RoF nerf), capped FL is doing about 30% better dmg than HL and DIS though its aiming is pretty bad, so it needs a lot of practise to use it effectively and still, considering the % of missing shots it deals dmg equal to HL.
My vote is (as i've stated several times): un-nerf the high end weapons, make them viable. SH is bugged, RoG is nerfed, PE is not enough for a spy. We dont have enough weapons to choose from, simply as it is.
Is HL is overpowered in terms of dmg, compared to its TL?
for a good con specced tank HL is doing about 40-50 dmg/per hit, which means at least 8 hits to kill.
for a good con specced PE, buffed, HL is doing even less, around 30-40 dmg -per hit, and around 20% of it can be regenerated by PE's heal - at least 10 hits to kill
for a good con specced monk HL is doing about 50-55 dmg per hit - 6 hits to kill
for a good con specced spy (inq1 that is) HL is doing about 50-60 dmg per hit 7-8 hits to kill
Now, compare those to a dmg dealed by CS, Holy Lightning, Slasher, Pain Easer/Jugg crossbow, Judge. Compare the main weapons of all other classes.
Compare the RoF of those weapons and tell me which one of them is doing less dmg per hit/burst...
/edit/ those are the values from BEFORE the patch. I'll check the current dmg in a sec and post a results here
/edit 2/
here are the results of this "nerf" :lol:
BEFORE the patch, my shitty lvling HL, fire modded was doing 3x98 dmg to a Warbot Titan
AFTER the patch, my shitty lvling HL fire modded is doing 3x94 dmg to a Warbot Titan
so... unless it is some kind of pvp dmg only, it is really a "slight" reduction
It is that it does the same dmg every shot... And sorry but if a HL can take down a PE in 10 shots thats to much dmg because my high tech PE could take 12 from a xray CS :rolleyes:
CS is only TL 105, HL is 110, 5 levels for 2 extra shots? seems ok to me
This is not about fucking TLs. I agree they need to make CS tl 110-115 but that doesnt mean they need to make it do more damage!
do we even know to which extent has the HL been nerfed to? I don't have a RC spy so I can't say...
I knew it the first moment when I've read it "HL damage has been slightly reduced" that there will be a lot of debate around this move.
Healinglight like really hurt don't know what it is like now though but it was to powerfull the fact the damage lags you just fall over dead. People could get hit by it 4 times and be allmost dead your telling me thats right ?? a spy that could aim that thing up close would have killed anyone if there setup was good enough to take a beating
/edit the ROLH is better than a blacksun is it not ? with a blacksun I can kill allmost anytank apart from melee thats why I stoped using it. With all ray pistols you need to be close as possible to your target to do max damage and the blacksun hurts at max damage. Just because people don't know how to use the damn thing does not mean it needs a boost
A Capped spy, is at danger in midrange combat as hit rate of fire is slower,Spies can't do any better than midrange combat. The engine doesn't understand true long-range combat. That's probably the bulk of HL's "problems".
KK hasn't fixed that issue in the last three and a half years. I don't think they can.
and he needs line of sight.Well, we don't need line of sight, we're just not allowed to use non-LoS weapons like the Copbot rifle...
my only problem with it is not knowing you're getting hit by it at range
You dont see the hl spell on its max range too, samething with the ravanger. specialy the ravanger can strike you a couple of times before you notice it. if the healing light would get nerfed the ravanger should be nerved far more. the rifle has to be the strongest distanz weapon, everything else is crap.
I still maintain that the HL was too powerfull for it's tech level.
TL110
Two more than the RoLH and yet it was considerably more powerful, more so that those 2 tls would give.
As it was I would have been fine if it was a tl120 weapon, powerful and something that a spy would have to stretch to (more PE-spy class definition too).
You can't compare spies to apus, because apu defence is considerably lower than that of even an average spy.
Before we start getting nasty; does anyone actualy got HARD FACTUAL damage figures from before and after the patch?
You keep comparing it to a RoLH.... First off RoLH has been nerfed, with the
sledgehammer... second, it's a pistol so it has higher RoF but lower dmg, now
instead of nerfing HL i would rather they boost RoLH and fix the HL gfx bug
and i'm set.
- Primate
for a good con specced monk HL is doing about 50-55 dmg per hit - 6 hits to kill
for a good con specced spy (inq1 that is) HL is doing about 50-60 dmg per hit 7-8 hits to kill
First point Inq armor is fire not energy which is the healing lights damage type. Inq + energy damage = naked :D
And a question. How is a monk who has energy armor of 200(+con cap lvl45) vs a spys energy armor of 82(+con cap lvl40) taking simulare energy damage ?
Im not attacking or flaming, just argueing the numbers.
:)
First point Inq armor is fire not energy which is the healing lights damage type. Inq + energy damage = naked :D
And a question. How is a monk who has energy armor of 200(+con cap lvl45) vs a spys energy armor of 82(+con cap lvl40) taking simulare energy damage ?
Im not attacking or flaming, just argueing the numbers.
:)
He is saying a shelterd spy with inq 1 i think ;)
fix the dissie and first love then can adjust the hl inline thought think it just needs to be a bit more visible.
trigger hurt
23-12-04, 00:41
I still maintain that the HL was too powerfull for it's tech level.
TL110
Two more than the RoLH and yet it was considerably more powerful, more so that those 2 tls would give.
As it was I would have been fine if it was a tl120 weapon, powerful and something that a spy would have to stretch to (more PE-spy class definition too).
You can't compare spies to apus, because apu defence is considerably lower than that of even an average spy.
Before we start getting nasty; does anyone actualy got HARD FACTUAL damage figures from before and after the patch?
The nerf isnt that bad. KK actually used a feather to do the adjustment this time. On the other hand, you are still comparing a TL 108 RAY PISTOL to a TL 110 LASER RIFLE. Please stop doing that. You shouldn't be comparing guns that aren't even the same class to base your judgement about it being overpowered.
It was people like you who complained when RoLH/RoG were great guns to use that resulted in them being nerfed to uselessness.
Saying that APU defense is considerably lower than that of a spy is kind of a cop-out. APU's can get excellent NRG resists, making way for them to spec fir/xray. They have 25 extra points in con to distribute, so they can even have some poison spec'd on top of the filter heart. They too can wear heavy belts. Some of the best non-tank con setups I have seen are on apu's. Add to the fact that the most common weapons do nrg/xray or nrg/fir, it's easy for a monk to spec his con around it.
Spies on the other hand have no choice but to sacrifice HLT for higher fir or higher nrg because they can't have both. Drugging is an option, but get yourself out of the pe mindset. Not all of like to carry 10 of every str drug, some fire/xray/nrg resist potions and whatever else you want just to get a little more defense. At one point, I put all of my con in ATL just for pvp purposes but I couldn't even level because I was toast in a matter of seconds.
I actually think that the rav is way more overpowered then the HL since it does more damage and because of clipping plane it has almost as much range and its beam also cant be seen, it was funny how many sniping spies I took out with a rav when they were trying to snipe me but with a HC weapon its just not right the range on it.
HL needs the beam bug fixed and the FL and dissie need fixing and then put the damage of all rifles in line with their TLs.
here are the results of the nerf:
here are the results of this "nerf"
BEFORE the patch, my shitty lvling HL, fire modded was doing 3x98 dmg to a Warbot Titan
AFTER the patch, my shitty lvling HL fire modded is doing 3x94 dmg to a Warbot Titan
so... unless it is some kind of pvp dmg only, it is really a "slight" reduction
@aelfkins:
1st, its not about the main dmg which is energy, ammo mods are also included in my calculation. Monks have more energy and less fire/xray than spies, also the difference between 200 and 130 isnt *that* big, so usually, when the spy is set up right he can take about the same dmg as monk.
But yeah, spies who use inq armor are using shelter as well, usually.
@tostino
i was thinking of pistol/rifle PE, in other words, a classic PE who got around 350 hp, not the HC one who can easily have over 400 hp. That's the difference u are talking about, and that's around another 3-4 shots.
Anyways PEs are definitely the hardest class to fight for a rifle spy, so dont worry, you'll be fine
healing light was just fine, and only reason it was "nerfed" was because of damn whiners who can't handle dying to a spy :P
@tostino
i was thinking of pistol/rifle PE, in other words, a classic PE who got around 350 hp, not the HC one who can easily have over 400 hp. That's the difference u are talking about, and that's around another 3-4 shots.
Anyways PEs are definitely the hardest class to fight for a rifle spy, so dont worry, you'll be fine
I was talking about my old high tech Rifle PE on Pluto. And on a HC pe you can get 500+ on a normal high tech rifle/pistol you can easly get 450 HP and have 120 xray/fire and 125 energy.
I was talking about my old high tech Rifle PE on Pluto. And on a HC pe you can get 500+ on a normal high tech rifle/pistol you can easly get 450 HP and have 120 xray/fire and 125 energy.
well, u dont have to worry about HL then, to a fully buffed PE HL does around 30-40 dmg per hit. Your safer than with CS...
Fluffy']Exactly. Hl is verystrong. But it needs to be. As long as you can SEE your being hit from range it was PERFECT the way it is. I mean i Know a spy called SPyware who owns in PvP always kills ALL clases at cycrow 1 on 1. ANd even once we bd and Para him he is probably the BIGGEST drug whore i have ever seen Bcz it never sticks more than 10 seconds. SO there are some VERY strong and able spys around. IMO spys right now are Teh Win when it comes to pking. ALso Cornix a member Of FF owns most of the people he comes in contact with. They all may be druggies but hey u gotta do what u gotta do. :wtf:
the biggest issue is that when you go down to it
pistols > rifles
pistols are the better weapon option to spies as most pistols are actually incredibly decent and great for pvping.
now keep in mind I have a capped rifle spy. The healing light was ok, but the biggest issue was the fact that you couldn't tell you were really being hit. A graphics error that really ruined a weapon. Perhaps it was a tad to powerful, but it was the only real rifle that said, hello pking rifle spies.
now what do rifle spies have to look towards, an smartly modded terminator that a private eye could use. Disruptor, a gun that lacks the rate of fire it deserves. First love which is horrid in aiming. Silent Hunter which can only do so much now that a spirit mod is a fond thing of the past. Ray of god, which is :/ redeemer which honestly is just good for warbot leveling and that is it
so many great choices when you look at pistols like slasher, executioner, ray of last hope, hell even beam of hell is better than most rare rifles.
yet still as a rifle spy dedicated to taking a challenge of using not so hot rares I'll remain with my disruptor even at it's 'stellar' 170 frequency. At least us rifle spies can say, hey... you just got owned with a shit weapon b.
Jesterthegreat
23-12-04, 14:32
my only problem with it is not knowing you're getting hit by it at range
agreed... however its not only HL's... all weapons seem fucked at long LONG range.
and HL's dont suck at close range. at all.
Cliffraiser
23-12-04, 15:07
thing is, what needs to be fixxed is that you dont see it when your getting hit, damage is fine etc its just the fact that you dont see ur being shot at and suddenly you die. 1 on 1 upclose a HL spy doesnt stand a chance against a decent tank unless he stealths. on a apu though ur fucked
About First love, i had all arti xray modded FL in NC1, and I could hit quite good with that gun, its not THAT bad aiming, just need to ... learn how to aim, and strongly suggest to have handling capped :P Otherwise it will be like new years eve, plasma bullets flying all over the skies
edit : and yes, HL is good as its now, only need to fix that graphic bug, so the targets can see that they are getting wtfpwned O_o
Jesterthegreat
23-12-04, 22:03
thing is, what needs to be fixxed is that you dont see it when your getting hit, damage is fine etc its just the fact that you dont see ur being shot at and suddenly you die.
what i been saying since people started screaming nerf...
Matthew.v.smith
24-12-04, 01:23
Prehap's if they modifed the beam to make it appear on screen a little longer or something other than ruining a rifle spy's one chance to be excellent.
My pistol spy was fun to use but i wanted a change and since the nerf ive regretted ever taking 2 day's to Lom :(
Matty. :angel:
superfresh
24-12-04, 05:15
How bad is the nerf?
Sir ramic hobbs
25-12-04, 02:23
You gotta admit when KK nerfed the disruptor it was pretty random. (Nc 1 months and months ago)
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