View Full Version : Well, I´m broke again ^^
Just bought a new case and a new cpu cooler...
black case and blue cooler :)
http://www.dataworld.dk/billeder/varer/Dracula%20Black.jpg
http://www.logisyscomputer.com/viewsku.asp?SKUID=CS602BL&DID=C001
http://global.giga-byte.com/Peripherals/Products/Products_GH-PCU22-VG(3D%20Rocket%20Cooler-Pro).htm#
I know the cooler rocks cuz i got one in my dads computer.. :)
*looks towards his dell*
How much does a nice case like that cost I think I'll take the plunge and build my own computer next I want a beast :)
how much ya paying for the case Naim?
http://www.gamecase.co.uk/customer/products/1322 ;)
how much ya paying for the case Naim?
http://www.gamecase.co.uk/customer/products/1322 ;)
600 Kr
thats about :
80 €
55 £
That is - without a doubt - THE most AWFUL CASE EVAR!
Cooler does rock tho.
Kudos :)
sry Naim i have to agree with spermy on the case... not my cup of tea i spose but aye the cooler does look nice... how loud is it? I need to get rid of this coolermaster jet 7 (what they didnt say on the box is it really does sound like a jet engine! :rolleyes: )
the case looks nicer irl, my friend has it in silver. its not a bad case at all :)
sry Naim i have to agree with spermy on the case... not my cup of tea i spose but aye the cooler does look nice... how loud is it? I need to get rid of this coolermaster jet 7 (what they didnt say on the box is it really does sound like a jet engine! :rolleyes: )
it´s not that loud.... not in my opinion..
but I might not be the right person to ask...
I got like 13 fans in my current case, running mostly 24/7, I´ve simply learned to ignore it...
So noise from stuff in my computer is never an issue.. I just block it out anyways. Sorry.
Anyways, your opinions on the case are very nice :) but since we all have different taste in style and whatnot :) that case is so my style ;)
But please, all opinions are appreciated, but it won´t change mine :lol:
that's fair enough dude each to his own an all that ;) /me flips side of case to check out pretty red glow... mmmmm gotta cut that window soon :)
hey.. i saw that one a few days ago..
nice one ;)
I got like 13 fans in my current case, running mostly 24/7
What the blazes for? :wtf:
must sound like my cpu fan when he boots up :p
What the blazes for? :wtf:
He's providing cooling for the set of ice station zebra of course!
(would like to point out - this awesome piece of filmage is on over christmas!)
What the blazes for? :wtf:
well it works...
nice cool air flowing through and out of my case :) comfortable temperature inside :)
well it works...
nice cool air flowing through and out of my case :) comfortable temperature inside :)
Load-bearing walls of the house bent out at 20 degrees by the wind
Foundations turning to dust
Ear-drums with a life-expectancy of a member of the Rolling Stones
Seismographers having fits every time you boot up
.....
:D
Why not invest in a fan-mouse too? O_o Well anyone suffer from sweaty palms?
Well say goodbye to sweaty palms.
This cool mouse is a wired optical mouse with a cooling fan embedded in the mouse to keep your hand cool and fresh.
A three-position switch on the side of the 800 dpi optical mouse adjusts the fan to High, Low, and Off positions.
Specifications:
Optical cool mouse.
PS2 Advanced optical design, exact orientation.
800 DPI
Silver casing With Blue illumination
Blue optical colouring not the normal red underneath.
http://www.fleetwoodcomputers.co.uk/shop_copy/images/FanMse(1).JPG
That's almost as stupid as force-feedback headphones.
Almost.
if i remember rightly naim's case has a nice blue glow comming from it so that mouse would actually suit the puter... but a fan in a mouse? o_O erm lol? :confused:
if i remember rightly naim's case has a nice blue glow comming from it so that mouse would actually suit the puter... but a fan in a mouse? o_O erm lol? :confused:
it does.. :)
mousepad, keyboard, case, fans, ceiling light (blacklight) and mouse.. all glowing blue..
the mouse is dead though :(
need a new one soon.. this redglowing one is so ugly in all this wonderblue paradise.
it does.. :)
mousepad, keyboard, case, fans, ceiling light (blacklight) and mouse.. all glowing blue..
the mouse is dead though :(
need a new one soon.. this redglowing one is so ugly in all this wonderblue paradise.
Then. why not get a mouse-fan O_o
@jernau: ROFL, I bet it vibrates of ya head *buzz* grr!! motherf**king headset piece of shit!:lol:
The thing with noise, is that it's both a psychological and a measurable effect. Having 13 fans inside a case, means almost polution. Once you begin chasing this chapter, you will find that you need lower nad lower and more silenter fans and less fans as well.
A nice way to avoid fans is to use liquid cooling. Zalman has also a fanless water cooling tower.
Zalman also makes a very special case that uses no fans to cool, it cools only with convection much like as a radiator heats the room :)
Saying all these however I can't forget the fact that the best cases are allways made by apple, have a look on them they worth it.
Jernau can correct me if there's anything I keep forgetting
Jin and I have very different opinions on what is a nice case :)
and he and I have already discussed the issue about noise..
where my only real comment was.. I´ve learned to ignore it..
@jernau: ROFL, I bet it vibrates of ya head *buzz* grr!! motherf**king headset piece of shit!:lol:I don't actually own a set. I saw them in PC World once and though ":wtf: That's just not right". The next week they were reduced (a lot) and the one after they were gone and I've never seen them since. I suspect the demans for simulating gunshot wounds to the head was overestimated.
Talking of cases - I usually make my own as I believe all commercially available ones are made by very stupid blind monkeys on crack using hammers, a pile of tin and perspex and some cheap paint. However with old age comes laziness and I'm considering buying one for my new PC in the new year.
Currently this (http://www.xcase.co.uk/acatalog/Coolermaster_.html) is my leading choice, there's plenty I don't like about it and a few things I need to check with their forums/helpdesk but I wondered if anyone has one of these or knows about them? It'll be housing a dual opteron, fully loaded with drives and cards, SLI at some point (maybe not immediately) and therefore both PSU bays used. My main concerns are lateral drive mounting (may be solved by the optional converter thing) and cable neatness/airflow over mobo. Comments appreciated.
@Jini - pretty accurate although Apple have made some seriously lousy cases recently, mostly by trying to lose fans they really needed to keep. Personally I'm no fan of water-cooling but I can see their place.
SLI is the serial ATA?
Anyway serial hard drives are nice for less cabling inside the case.
I liked this case J.
Sounds like you got a lot of power stuffed in a confined space, but you will be fine i guess
When it goes for made cases, I will have to agree with J. Indeed stupid people designs them, with almost none engineering skills. Actually they all seems like a no slot mendicant pistol :)
J: neither I am a fun of water cooling, but when a manufacturer designs them its different. His integration is what independent manufacturers can't do.
SLI is the serial ATA?
Anyway serial hard drives are nice for less cabling inside the case.
I liked this case J.
Sounds like you got a lot of power stuffed in a confined space, but you will be fine i guess
When it goes for made cases, I will have to agree with J. Indeed stupid people designs them, with almost none engineering skills. Actually they all seems like a no slot mendicant pistol :)
J: neither I am a fun of water cooling, but when a manufacturer designs them its different. His integration is what independent manufacturers can't do.Scan Line Interleaving - why have one bastard-fast graphics card when you can have two for twice the price? :D
Mendicant analogy is good. I'd steal it but non-NCers would look at me funny.
The case looks nice (much prettier than mine do) but I'm worried about whether it's really designed for maxed out usage....
Water cooling would never be needed if the cases were made properly. I fear I may need to consider it if I go for an off-the-shelf case but I'm very reluctant. I'll probably be donning the welding mask again if it comes to that.
I doubt you will ever gonna need water to cool down your pc, provided you have a nice airflow thru those parts. I would only use water cooling to keep noice levels down. Thos fans are more than enuff for your heat xchange needs. Its also pretty silent as I can see...
I doubt you will ever gonna need water to cool down your pc, provided you have a nice airflow thru those parts. I would only use water cooling to keep noice levels down. Thos fans are more than enuff for your heat xchange needs. Its also pretty silent as I can see...
Hope so.
I'll troll their forums at some point to see what current owners think. The review on their makes me wonder if the guy installed any components into it.
QuantumDelta
20-12-04, 21:13
Scan Line Interleaving - why have one bastard-fast graphics card when you can have two for twice the price? :D
Shame you only get 50% gain from that second card :p
it´s not that loud.... not in my opinion..
but I might not be the right person to ask...
I got like 13 fans in my current case, running mostly 24/7, I´ve simply learned to ignore it...
So noise from stuff in my computer is never an issue.. I just block it out anyways. Sorry.
Anyways, your opinions on the case are very nice :) but since we all have different taste in style and whatnot :) that case is so my style ;)
But please, all opinions are appreciated, but it won´t change mine :lol:
fooking hell do the lights in your house dim when you switch that on :lol:
QuantumDelta
20-12-04, 21:20
4 Front Case Fans.
2 Rear Case Fans.
1 Side Case Fan.
CPU Fan.
Graphics Card Fan.
PSU Fan.
Is 13 really that abnormal?
4 Front Case Fans.
2 Rear Case Fans.
1 Side Case Fan.
CPU Fan.
Graphics Card Fan.
PSU Fan.
Is 13 really that abnormal? It is.
Designing air flow is not just put some fans in and out.
The trick is how to plan and design the case with the LEAST fans, while maintaining temperature AT MANUFACTURER specs. And that needs work.
IF I take yr example, most likely we will find too many fans than needed, which leads to noise. and dust.
Beisides that 13 is a bad number :D
Also you should ask naimex how much he loves Apples...
For those interested and didnt know, here is a site I really like:
http://www.tomshardware.com
He does a lot of tests, and breaks a lot of myths as well, and I'm also sure some very big ears listen to him...
Shame you only get 50% gain from that second card :pDepends whatyou believe but I see it more as a future upgrade so I can skip a generation or two than as an immediate purchase. One 6800 Ultra ought to do for a while I reckon...
13 fans is not only abnormal, it shows a LOT is wrong with the case design.
/edit @jini - Toms is still a great site but you need to be careful wrt bias. He really messed up his reputation a while back by giving unfairly good reviews to sponsors/advertisers. Then there were the various arguments amongst the reviewers...... It's still a great source but single-source data is bad so always check a few others as well.
13 fans is not only abnormal, it shows a LOT is wrong with the case design.
nonono, you got it all wrong..
the case is cool even without the fans..
the fans just make the air go faster inside the case, keeping everything extra cool, because of the higher flow of air that goes through it.
its like a circlish thing.
ill just try and draw it for ya what i mean
EDIT:
http://www.naimex.dk/compflow.GIF
The air goes in from the back, and divides 2 ways, to the cpu and the pci cards.
It then goes from the cpu up through the psu and out the back at the top of the case.
And the air pushed downwards by the 6 coolers i have there, will then be pushed through the cards, up front to the harddrives, where it will divide again.
Some will go out the front, and the rest will go up to the cpu, and then get pushed throught the psu again, and out the top of the back.
naim sry if my general physics is wrong but you should really be dragging that cold air in at the front (bottom) and throwing the warmed air out the back (top)... but once again each to his own an all that personally if i could cut down on my 4 fans i would cos i dispise the noise my computer makes... what is your actual ambient temperature inside your case?
QuantumDelta
21-12-04, 02:08
http://www.naimex.dk/compflow.GIF
WTF IS THAT?!
Front(Bottom) and Side Case Fans Draw in Air
Back (Top) Case Fans extract Air.
OMG @ That diagram O.O
WTF IS THAT?!
Horrible.
I'm going to have nightmares now Naimex you git.
Dribble Joy
21-12-04, 02:37
I would start spewing stuff about fluid dynamics and refigeration cycles, but given the state of my lab report I am handing in tomo, I think I won't.
I just took the side of my case off and saw a 3C drop in temperature.
Dribble Joy
21-12-04, 02:48
I havn't had the side of my case for about 4 months.
Probably not good for dust, but good circulation.
I havn't had the side of my case for about 4 months.
Probably not good for dust, but good circulation.
Yeah 2 cases back I never had the side on due to my PSU over-heating and turning off mid Op war, I then one day Opened my blinds *gasp* and saw all the dust n shit sitting on my gfx card and lining the bottom of my case.. meh tis not good *pulls out hoover* ahem, much better :p
having the side of the case off aint the greatest idea ;) my puter dont even change temperature when the side is down... if anything gets warmer tbh... :rolleyes:
edit:: just tested that remark... aye it does get warmer a 2C rise :eek:
Dribble Joy
21-12-04, 03:22
Either your room is in an oven or your cooling system is so powerful that the air inside (with the case side on) is colder than the ambient temp and with it off, it can't maintain it.
well i dunno my room is quite comfortable... (but then i do get cold easy ;) ) and goddam at least i'm not the only brit with odd sleep patturns :)
what is your actual ambient temperature inside your case?
The system temperature is 33 degrees
Cpu temperature is 40 degrees
Room temperature is about 29 degrees
*runs mbmonitor*
well it apears my case ambient temp is 29 and my cpu is 43. i was just playin source so ya. my regular room temerature? about 23C
and wow are you seriouse when you say your room is 29C??? thats madness!! it must be frigging hot in there.
i have 6 fans including cpu fan and my temps idle are as follows :D
my bro has a amd 64 running at lower then anbient temperature aswell at stick cooling. even after using it for a while it wont go over 35C even though its overclocked by 200. those things run so well. it realy amazes me. its actualy kinda funny becouse he is running it on a 754 with a pin broken off and it runs fine after all. exept sometimes his computer will stop responding when alot is going on for a few seconds.
im actualy thinking about going down to princess auto and buying 4 120 mil fans for my computer. i can cut hols in my case side and put the fans in like that, all blowing out. that way the air in my comp is less dense and air will be sucked in right by the proccesor. they are only like 5$ each. i have already installed a single 120 mil fan on a case i own with a switch i also made for it on the front tower in a bay. but that computer was one i built for a friend. but wow it is noisy.
right now my computers power supply fan is making alot of noise for some reason. im running a volcano 11+ and its realy noisy. along with a pci slot blower that is also noisy. that and i have no side panel so its a hurricane.
my comps of average volume, i have 2 in my room.. one silent and one average.
120 mm fans are ok but having more than 2 will make it sound like uve got a vacume cleaner on constant in ur room o_O
my cpu is a p4 3.0 clocked at 3.4 and cooled on air.
ive ordered my new computer and im coming over to the darkside its going to be a
amd 64 3800+ newcastle socket 939
abit av8 3rd eye motherboard
another gig of ram. (il have 3 gigs total then)
2x 200 gig SATA wd hard drives
new case( tho il prob use my old one till i can decide what one to get )
ive allready got a ati x800 xt pe so i dont need a gfx card.
im hoping now that ati have sorted most of the heat issues with there socket 939 cpus. it shouldnt run at more than 40 ish (im hoping) :D
edit// meh any spelling mistakes.. i cba to change them im tired:)
*runs mbmonitor*
well it apears my case ambient temp is 29 and my cpu is 43. i was just playin source so ya. my regular room temerature? about 23C
and wow are you seriouse when you say your room is 29C??? thats madness!! it must be frigging hot in there.
I can´t stand being cold... so yea... I have a lot of heat in my room.
it´s usually 27-28 in winter, and about 31-32 in summer.
heat turned on in winter, and in summer the sun does it (my room is facing the sun direction thingy or summet)
@DJ: what does refrigeration cycles has to do with our discussion DJ? Instead of throwing us stuff about fluid dynamics, please explain to me how you can maintain good circulation (LOL) with an open lid case. Dust is your least concern here...
@naimex: nice design mate ...
@Jernau: don't you dare leaving cron, without PMing your msn lol.
It would be a nice and usefull thing if we started a new thread with some tips about good case cooling J what you think?
right i can't take it anymore this jet 7 is driving me nuts... what is a good cpu cooler to get? i need it quiet efficient and most of all value for money (i'm poor ;))
I cant speak from personal experiances but i hear thermaright make some of the best heatsinks. then you can choose your own quite fan for it.
ok some thoughts of mine on how to achieve the best case design.
My goal is to:
1. Cool down pc guts to manufacturer specs.
2. Use the least fans possible for acoustics.
What we need:
We need to maintain some kind of air draft, that will take heat out of pc.
As we all know air travels thru the least possible friction route, meaning
it will follow a straight line from hole A to the fan B that works. This will ONLY happen if the case in question is kinda airtight and of good quality (this is where quality matters)
On the contrary of how many believe, taking the lid of the case spoils air circulation so bad
that on occasion you might destroy a pci card.
Now if you place a fan in the upper back of your pc and make 2 holes in the front, then
air will move thru both holes creating 2 drafts.
if you place 2 fans the design gets harder because both fans will draw from both holes and so on.
Your goal is to refresh inside air not to create a typhoon.
Saying all these, yoy will hardly need more than 2 fans of 120mm diameter (higher diameter, less noise, less rotational speed, higher
flow), placed in the back of the case and maybe infront, alltho i would prefer both in the back, is all thats needed.
Most times one is more than enough. Air will flow in thru holes in the front side as low is possible, so that
draft crosses the case diagonally. Of course you will block these holes using a dust filter (like the one
we use in Kitchen)
According to how loaded your pc is you can also regulate those fans, to the least possible rotation speed
while keeping temperature to comfortable levels.For this you will need some device to monitor temp
for various pc places. Say you have a backside fan that sucks air from the case. With a rotation regulator
you regulate speed, so as the following two happens:
1. the expelled air temperature is as hot as you can get, without,
2. temperatures incide several zones of caase goes of limits.
if the expeled temp is not hot, then you can lower rotation of that fan and monitor #2
that's all, I'm waiting for more ideas I might have left.
@Jernau : I'm checking these J take a look http://www.chieftecusa.com/matrix.htm
edit: no, i don't like it... still searching a bit more...
edit#2: how about this one? http://www.overclock.co.uk/customer/product.php?productid=17526
edit#3: take a look at this I love this one :
http://www20.tomshardware.com/howto/20040115/index.html
Dribble Joy
21-12-04, 14:11
refrigeration cycles probably have nothing to do with CPU/comp cooling at all jini, I was taking the piss, the thermo dynamic principles used are somewhat basic (ie. hot things make colder things hotter, the greater the difference, the faster the transfer of heat).
With an open sided case, it depends entirely on the position of the fans.
In a closed case, without proper flow (eg. in at the bottom, out at the top or something) the temperature of the air inside the case will rise, dulling the effect of fresh air as it mixes with it.
Personally (since I really haven't taken time to look at this properly), most systems would benefit from an open side, as natural convection would assist the flow by removing that hotter air inside the case.
All fo which is probably utter bollocks.
sponge get a stock cooler and put a aftermarket fan on it with some arctic silver, cheap and cheerful.
ive got mine on the original retail cooler with a ys tech 80mm fan on it. my temps prove it works :D
I probably have all this somewhere and should copy/paste it in but I don't know where so I'll do it from memory (if I miss stuff feel free to point and laugh).
Principles :
- Heat transfers in 3 ways : conduction, convection and radiation. Of these convection is by far the most important. Most commercial cases (bar a few server ones) completely ignore convection and indeed are designed to obstruct it.
- Latent heat storage : Some materials are very good at storing heat. Hard drives in particular excel in this regard.
- Air flow : Air has to move but whenever moving air touches a surface it makes noise. Minising airflow is a good thing contrary to what most case companies seem to believe. Physically forcing air to move is noisy.
- Heat sources : PCs have lots of them and they all behave differently - understanding them is vital if you want to do it right.
- Albedo : radiation reflects off light surfaces better than dark ones. Dark = heat magnet = bad.
Common problems :
- Lateral HDD mounts : putting hard drives flat above each other is MONUMENTALLY retarded. Not only is heat removal (convection) blocked but the idling drives act as storage heaters buffering the heat of the running ones meaning heat build up.
- PSU overload and misplacement : The PSU produces a lot of heat and none of that should ever be allowed into the case. Likewise case air should not be fed into the PSU as this will likely come from near the CPU and be hot. Heating up the PSU is very bad as it has a strong impact on it's efficiency. Likewise having a PSU that is too close to it's max load makes it hotter and less efficient.
- Poor flow-control : Moving hot air laterally is silly. It will want to go up so you have to push it hard to change it's course. Big open spaces are a major no-no that case designers seem to love. Get a copy of DJ's fluid dynamics notes if you can't see why.
Solutions :
- Form factor : Tower is the only choice.
- PSU : Must be at the top of the case. Should draw in air from it's back* and let it out the TOP. Thermally isolate it from the case using 2-sided reflective padding.
- mobo/CPU : Put them well below the PSU even if it means having longer power wires. Fit an air pipe (silver inside, black outside) from just above the CPU fan to a hole in the top of the case in front of the PSU hole. A stock fan is far more than adequate for this in fact on some CPUs you'll be able to run the fan slower than normal. Use a fan that pulls air from the sides.
- GPU : Fit a pipe as for the CPU and join it into the CPU exhaust.
- HDDs : Mount them on their sides at the front of the case with the "top" edges inwards. Leave a few inches below the bottom pair and in that space mount a large-radius fan flat to blow air slowly up the space between the drives. You need a contoured airgap under the fan leading to the front of the case to draw in air. This fan should be on a thermostat as it'll almost never be needed. Again at the top you need a hole out the case. The drive area should be insulated from the main area similar to the way the PSU was. Drives should be mounted flush to the metal walls which should be reasonably thick aluminium (copper would be better but expensive) and the walls should have radiator fins at the top near or above the case hole.
- Cables : Cut them all to custom lengths and use ducting to route them.
- Main area : Little needs doing here other than ensuring air can get in to feed the CPU fan. Removing a few blanking plates works fine or you can put a hole in the side if you want something neater.
If you do all that you will have four distinct and seperate heating areas all with their own solutions tailored to their needs :
1) The HDDs will cool with convection most of the time but have a fallback when it's needed.
2) Heat from the CPU and GPU has a wide-bore direct route out the case driven by the heat itself and backed up by a fan.
3) The PSU likewise has it's own easy way to evict heat.
4) The main area produces and recieves little heat and can bleed it out via the black-walled CPU flue and the flow into the CPU fan itself.
The whole rig only needs one case fan and even that is part time. The design scales to any number of components very well with the possible exception of PSUs unless you widen the case or use slimlines. Personally I went external
when I needed a second PSU originally.
Obviously there are other little tweaks and refinements you can make but that covers the basics. It really isn't rocket science but you'd think it was looking at the shite the so called professionals make.
* - Ideally it would draw from below but that means more engineering to make an angled airflow route through the case from lower down the back. You need a very tall case to do that but if you do it aids cooling the main area a little if you use the black outer/silver inner method.
Sorry to double post but I think I'm on the word limit there :o and also it's neater this way, honest...
@Jernau : I'm checking these J take a look http://www.chieftecusa.com/matrix.htm
edit: no, i don't like it... still searching a bit more...
edit#2: how about this one? http://www.overclock.co.uk/customer/product.php?productid=17526
edit#3: take a look at this I love this one :
http://www20.tomshardware.com/howto/20040115/index.html
Chieftec - Style over substance. I've used their cases in the past at work though and they are usually pretty good to work with.
Lian - They are another range I've looked at but they weren't noticable better than others and seem to charge a lot more for some reason I can't fathom (it definitely isn't appearance).
Zalman - Yeah I saw it when it launched. It's an interesting idea but too small, FAR too expensive and tbh I think they were having a laugh. Going all the way to "no fans" is deep into diminishing returns territory.
Thx for the post J, altho i found it a bit hard for my pooor english :).
Let me also add, that poor and old ATX design has led into those heating problems. I think Intel is about to make a new mobo design that will eventually address these better.
Im also using some Seagate HDDs (3atm) that use fluid bearings. I love them. you can hardly hear them, and they run so cool.
You liked the lian li case with those 3 compartments?
edit: oops didn't catch your post.
same feeling about the zelman case. but it's definitelly a nice idea
edit#2: I took a better look at cooler master. You are right it seems better than Lian li's case, even tho i prefer the looks of lian's. I do have a Lian Li myself, never understood why i paid so much for it, but it was an old purchase 2 yrs i think. Cooler master's design beats Lian's from this special fan they use. thats nice one and solves the pci cooling prob. But how does this case stands in future upgrades? i'm talking about the new intel design, dunno how they call it...
Thx for the post J, altho i found it a bit hard for my pooor english :).
I really wouldn't have guessed English wasn't your first language - sorry.
You liked the lian li case with those 3 compartments?
It's a step in the right direction but also a step backwards - the HDDs are at the bottom and still laterally mounted which is really dense - they may as well install a stove in there while they are at it.
I cannot see from the attached photos, but if that cross flow fan draws fresh air from the front of the panel then you might not need to make all those pipes for cpu/gpu
Nice case indeed :)
I cannot see from the attached photos, but if that cross flow fan draws fresh air from the front of the panel then you might not need to make all those pipes for cpu/gpu
Nice case indeed :)
The reason for using pipes is to improve flow efficiency. It makes an enormous difference to how well the case works - far more than bolting in more and more fans to fight forces that can work to your advantage. The biggest factor of all though is top-venting. Putting the drives below the CPU/mobo is lunacy. Maybe in a few versions time that case may improve.
The reason for using pipes is to improve flow efficiency. It makes an enormous difference to how well the case works - far more than bolting in more and more fans to fight forces that can work to your advantage. The biggest factor of all though is top-venting. Putting the drives below the CPU/mobo is lunacy. Maybe in a few versions time that case may improve. You mean you design them to work like the exausts of a common fireplace?
Show me a piccie if you want please, or a sketch. Also send me a couple of links of like toms sites
thx in advance Jernau
Edit: AAAh yes i think i understood what you mean. Pipes boost inflow by creating higher pressure inside the case. yea. nice idea :D but how do you seal the gaps? What kind of material you use for the pipes? armaflex?
lol this thread has been officially hijacked :lol:
Dribble Joy
21-12-04, 21:07
Pipes keep the offending heat generated by the components separate from the internal air and directly out of the case rather than float about inside the box.
This means that the air arriving at the component is faster moving and cooler, increasing the cooling effect.
Summat lke my piccy?
I dunno how he designed it, but I guess he just sucks fresh air in using the coolers on both cpu/gpu. And once you deal with those 2, then there's little else left to cool. Meaning that even the use of that one fan in the case that blows air is not that needed, or you can run it at minimal speed. Jernau's plan uses just 3 fans, say 4 with the disks one (i dont use this), but its superior simply because he throws fresh air directly in the cpu/gpu.
@spongebob: you are right there sponge, but isnt this thread a jewel now?
well, the problem with sucking air in directly, is that you need to have a filter on it, and you need to clean that filter often.
otherwise you´ll just spray it with dust constantly, making the heat enhance exponentially, whilst the filter gets more and more stuffed, in the end causing overheat causing it to either shut off or get fried.
You mean you design them to work like the exausts of a common fireplace?Yes, exactly like a flue/exhaust. you want a pipe of about equal radius to the fan it sits on and slightly wider at the inlet (CPU/GPU) end to allow cool air to come in under it if needed to prevent whistling (from air going through a tight gap). You can get flexible pipe from most DIY stores that is basically thin plastic with metal loops every inch or so to keep it's shape. If you spray the inside silver (not that important as the pipe is usually white) and then once it's in place clad it in thin black insulation material (RS, Maplin, etc have all sorts) it works fine - looks a bit messy but it's very cheap and very effective. Obviously a proper manufacturing company could make a nicer job of it very easily.
Show me a piccie if you want please, or a sketch. I would but my camera is with my brother-in-law in S. Africa at the moment. Remind me in the New Year to get it back from him :).
Edit: AAAh yes i think i understood what you mean. Pipes boost inflow by creating higher pressure inside the case. yea. nice idea :D but how do you seal the gaps? What kind of material you use for the pipes? armaflex?Basically yes - convection takes air out the top and in turn it's drawn in at the bottom. This of course means more heat=> more flow=> more cooling without need for brute force solutions. You still need fans to help but as they aren't trying to change the direction of the airfow, merely accelerate it they can run much slower and produce much less noise. You don't want to seal the gaps as the air-flow is sufficient to make them one-way routes and forcing air to move through small spaces makes noise.
@DJ - That's the basic principle. Large straight pipes = minimal surface contact which reduces turbulence and using convection rather than forced air means less chance of eddies and uneven flow-speeds.
Also send me a couple of links of like toms sites
thx in advance Jernauhttp://www.anandtech.com/ is generally good for news
http://www.sharkyextreme.com (http://www.sharkyextreme.com/) is still good for reviews
Also keep an eye on the Register and Inquirer for featured reviews and articles but beware of the sponsored ones on the Reg (they are marked as such).
@Naimex - The filters can be right on the outer face of the case. Antistatic gauze works very well and you can just wave a hoover at it to clean it off. They actually accumulate very little dust as the rate of inflow is not high enough to suck the chrome off a bumper as with some cases ;).
@Naimex - They actually accumulate very little dust as the rate of inflow is not high enough to suck the chrome off a bumper as with some cases ;).
i got loads of pull, not vacuum cleaner pull, but the hand does get pulled into the cooler if you just hold your hand infront of it without doing anything with it, or trying to consciously/inconsciously keep your hand away from it.
I clean my filters about once a month.. A bit of dust got through one of the unfiltered fans tho, so need to clean case soon. Terrible filth when you leave the window open.
@Jernau: Have you ever seen those "armaflex" we call them in Greece, pipes? It's these flexible foamy black pipes that we use for covering pipes for insulation purposes. They are very flexible, very cheap, you can cut them using a scisors, and I think they come in many radiuses, but you can also adjust them quite easily. or tape em. I would use them against thin plastic coz i think they really are more flexible
@naimex: dust is accumulating naim coz you have al those fans.
coolemaster also comes in cool blue :D:D and they also have a glass side as well. So, in a future upgrading with no vacuuming, you know what to do ...
that or get an apple :D:D
lol this thread has been officially hijacked :lol:
I think you meant to say...
http://www.heavenbesideyou.com/images/macros/hijacked.jpg
@Jernau: Have you ever seen those "armaflex" we call them in Greece, pipes? It's these flexible foamy black pipes that we use for covering pipes for insulation purposes. They are very flexible, very cheap, you can cut them using a scisors, and I think they come in many radiuses, but you can also adjust them quite easily. or tape em. I would use them against thin plastic coz i think they really are more flexible
I think I know the stuff you mean but I've not seen any with a large enough inner radius and the walls are a bit thick IIRC. Also I thought it was cut along it's length usually too so you can put it over pipes. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong stuff though, I'll have a look next time I'm near a decent plumbers.
This (http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp;jsessionid=JOC424XXGVTQDCJO2C4CIIQ?ts=94140&id=17297) is the kind of pipe I used and this (http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/search/SearchDisplay.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0433826728.1103693962@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdadddggighelcfngcfkmdgkldfhf.0&SearchType=quick&viewType=images&SearchText=superwool) is one form of insulation I've tried/used in the past. The pipe alone is too flexible but once clad it works quite well.
check here :
http://www.armaflex.com/www/armacell/armacell.nsf/ansHTMLSeitenLookUp/EU_Frame?OpenDocument
It has to come in different diameters. At least I hope it comes. And even if it's cut in length you can easily tape it along. It's very flexible, you can do it what you like, and if it comes in several diameters, you can choose one that is a little smaller than the fan's inlet, adjusting it by forcing it in, great sealing.
correction: http://www.armaflex.com/www/armacell/armacell.nsf/ansHTMLSeitenLookUp/UK_Frame?OpenDocument
there are its several dimensions, but they have a whole range of products you can choose, thick thin, they got a lot. its benefit is that you can also squeeze it, thus install stuff easier inside case. The ones you use are only flex in length.
Also a quicky question: If I understand it correct, inlet for cpu/gpu is different from exaust upper outlet right? which by the way since its free circulation need be a hole of, say some 30x1 cm (LxW) for optimum convection of course...
Yeah that's the stuff I was thinking of - I'll have to go look at some point.
Top holes (outlets) is the same size as the pipe - 5 or 6 cm diameter IIRC.
Air is drawn in from various sources :
HDD area from under fan - hole about an inch high and 10cm long (to match fan width).
Main area - Hole in side facing CPU/GPU is best but originally I did it by leaving a few blanking plates out which worked fine apart from some dust. The case hole is ~10cm in diameter but could probably be less.
CPU/GPU - draws in from main area both through the fan and through the small gap between the fan and pipe. The attachment is a poor attempt to show this - the first is the theory and the second is how it looks in practice.*
PSU - Self contained with a slight modification to the inlet route as mentioned before.
/edit - *You don't need much flow below the GPU unless you have any funny PCI cards so I put the inlet as near as possible to where the air is needed most.
ok after looking into most cpu heatsinks and fans... the majority blow air directly down onto the heat sink... would reversing the fan to blow air away from the sink make a huge difference? ie extracting the hot air away from the cpu? sec i'll draw a quick piccy of what i have in mind... (the whole point in this is i want to run that cpu fan as slow as possible without the heat gain... also pls don't go "omg you foo" cos i'm just dabling with some ideas here)
Yes that way works much better. You need a heatsink and fan that are designed to do it though or the drawn-in air may come from too near the fan and not pass over the CPU/heatsink properly.
wootage nice quiet case now and a not too sad cpu temperature :)
QuantumDelta
23-12-04, 03:22
With the PC having been on several hours and my room being very small (litterally, I think it's about 8x5)
Edit;
Several hours equates to about 4 weeks considering we're talking about heat not actual desktop uptime.
This boot about 5 days, though.
ok after looking into most cpu heatsinks and fans... the majority blow air directly down onto the heat sink... would reversing the fan to blow air away from the sink make a huge difference? ie extracting the hot air away from the cpu? sec i'll draw a quick piccy of what i have in mind... (the whole point in this is i want to run that cpu fan as slow as possible without the heat gain... also pls don't go "omg you foo" cos i'm just dabling with some ideas here) I would say here it's all the same, but I would prefer the blower to draw air not to pull air, but difference is really minimal. I dunno why cpu manufacturers chosen to pull air, maybe they know something we don't.
Jernau, I saw your drawings, you try to take advantage of normal convection effects, gathering all hot air and throwing to the exaust. Nice idea I can agree.
But I ask: Since we say, will make those pipes one way or another, why not go ahead sealing them entirely from the rest of the case and have them blow fresh directly in the cpu/gpu cooling those? We vould even exploiit the included fans that both cpus have to do this, and just leave a hole in the case free (open) no need for fan. It also doesnt have to be in the up hole. Any hole would do.
As for the rest of the m/b we could place a fan in the lower place of the case blowing air in (adjusting rotation) and exausting from the upper hole.
Will try to make a sketch. Everyone is sketching I will do one as well :D
Note, I use holes altready there, no need to open a new one altho it's quite easy to do so
That would just leave the majority of the case to act as a big storage heater.
A large part of why it works so well is that hot air is never allowed to warm up the case or any other components. If you let that happen they hold onto the heat and then radiate it back out meaning even passive items become a liability.
The aim is to remove hot air as quickly and smoothly as possible. Where the cold air comes from to replace it doesn't really matter and unless your case is hermetically sealed solves itself. The only reasons I use an inlet hole are 1) you could hear the air going in through the blankers and 2) it's easier to put a dust filter on it.
That would just leave the majority of the case to act as a big storage heater.
A large part of why it works so well is that hot air is never allowed to warm up the case or any other components. If you let that happen they hold onto the heat and then radiate it back out meaning even passive items become a liability.
The aim is to remove hot air as quickly and smoothly as possible. Where the cold air comes from to replace it doesn't really matter and unless your case is hermetically sealed solves itself. The only reasons I use an inlet hole are 1) you could hear the air going in through the blankers and 2) it's easier to put a dust filter on it. Your System actually tries to suck in, the thermal power ofalmost 100watts of heat plus some more (50?) from the gpu. I agree totally with this idea.
My sketch exploits the fans of those 2 components, to suck in fresh air (~20deg) throw it in the cpu/gpu directly, cool it and then hot air is going up thru the exhaust hole, therefore it doesn't store heat. The principle is exactly the same like in your design. Hot air will eventually move up and thru the upper hole.
Mine design:
You dont change cpu cooler rotation and you have something like another 2fans that bring cool air inside (which you need them to work anyhow) meaning that main fan can be run very low. Only disadvantage being that I dont suck hot air so fast llike you do, but I do have 2 more fans to compensate this
You:
you need special "reverced coolers" for both cpu/gpu
indeed yout design helps eliminate fast the main source of heating of the two most powerhungry chips. How do you expell whatever residual hot air is gathering in the top of your case, since the inlet is almost in the half of the case?
just so you know, since we talked about that fan-mouse glowing blue..
didn´t hve to buy one :)
me bro got me one for christmas :D
Your System actually tries to suck in, the thermal power ofalmost 100watts of heat plus some more (50?) from the gpu. I agree totally with this idea.Not entirely sure I follow you there. The inbound airflow isn't something I really look at too much tbh as air pressure solves it quite nicely. The only things to avoid in that regard are noise and dust so I just made a big, filtered hole and it worked :D.
My sketch exploits the fans of those 2 components, to suck in fresh air (~20deg) throw it in the cpu/gpu directly, cool it and then hot air is going up thru the exhaust hole, therefore it doesn't store heat. The principle is exactly the same like in your design. Hot air will eventually move up and thru the upper hole.
You'll find the inside of the case will get too hot because the unchannelled hot air will spread out and not leave fast enough. This could kill cards and HDDs eventually. You could try putting an outlet fan at the top rather than an inlet one at the bottom. As it is the lower fan will just disturb the hot air rather than remove it.
One earlier version I tried used the CPU and GPU fans to drive air and they weren't very good at it. They are designed to be very close to a hot surface, the amount of air they move is pretty trivial.
Reversing coolers and adjusting heatsinks is pretty easy if you buy the right ones.
How do you expell whatever residual hot air is gathering in the top of your case, since the inlet is almost in the half of the case?Not sure what you mean about the inlet. There is very little residual heat as the air in the case is constantly feeding into the CPU and GPU fans and being fed with cooler air from outside. It's certainly never build up enough to matter, last time I checked it maxed at about room temp +10 degrees which is fine.
Unfortunately after much reading I've decided AMD are taking the piss with their current dual-CPU offerings so it looks like I'll be going for a single 3500+ Winchester core (unless a better Winchester appears in January). The upside to this is that they produce feck-all heat so I have a litttle more faith in an off-the-shelf case being able to cope. All I have to worry about now is the HDDs and GPUs......
/edit @ naimex - how many minutes/seconds past midnight did you open that? :p
/edit @ naimex - how many minutes/seconds past midnight did you open that? :p
its 3 am on the 25th now..
we open presents in the evening on the 24th in denmark.
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