View Full Version : PE str WoC
Should the amount of XP that PEs need for the first str WoC be lowered from 260 mil? I think that it is insanely high and on a good day I can get 1 mil maximum str
XP (252 more days of constant lvling to go)
PEs need a complete rethink IMO.
There are already too many cludges and problems. Adding another one won't fix them.
I agree... even the DEX requirement on PEs for WoC is insane... the problem with PEs seems to be that while they gain in all areas, they gain much slower through the spread. I've also heard in the past that PEs level at ~65% of other character's main skills, even though I'm not 100% sure of that.
If that is the case though, I feel the DEX and STR requirement for WOC level 1 should be lowered for them.
why should pe's even be able to use WOC items? to use one expresses supreme greatness in that area.. and pes are supposed to be great at anything.
they were obviously intended to be able to get str WoC and I would get the 260 str XP if I didn't think that NC would shutdown before i achieved it
Well, bearing in mind that most PEs that require STR WoC will be HC/MC. As an HC PE, you can easily get the 260mill total needed. Have 2 HC PE clan mates who have already done it, using a Rhino. As for MC, oh well! :p
read the brainport... the is a list of proposed xp for PEs..
Well, bearing in mind that most PEs that require STR WoC will be HC/MC. As an HC PE, you can easily get the 260mill total needed. Have 2 HC PE clan mates who have already done it, using a Rhino. As for MC, oh well! :p
plz tell me what you have been killing coz my PE has been using a reveler so theres isnt much difference in the dmg done.
plz tell me what you have been killing coz my PE has been using a reveler so theres isnt much difference in the dmg done.
They hunt fire mobs in a Rhino. Simple as. They do it to farm for techs and stuff to clone ammo out of, so they do it quite a lot. However, from what I have heard, they are always making a profit :lol:
Unless they get their Rhino destroyed, of course.
They hunt fire mobs in a Rhino. Simple as. They do it to farm for techs and stuff to clone ammo out of, so they do it quite a lot. However, from what I have heard, they are always making a profit :lol:
Unless they get their Rhino destroyed, of course.
Only just worked out why they would get more xp in a rhino: it's higher tl
Dribble Joy
30-11-04, 17:56
read the brainport... the is a list of proposed xp for PEs..
I proposed something similar way back when the xp levels were released. The levels need to be based off the total xp at stat cap, not a fixed value.
Then you could reduce the PE xp gain rate (which is way too fast atm) to bring it in line with the time it takes a tank or apu to reach stat cap, but the time to WoC would be the same too.
Ie. You need 160 (stat cap xp) + 100 mil xp to reach WoC1 for spies, monks and tanks.
A PE dex would need 24 mil xp + 15 mil xp to WoC1, but the gain rate would be probably less than a third as it is now.
Same for PE str.
Jesterthegreat
30-11-04, 20:16
I proposed something similar way back when the xp levels were released. The levels need to be based off the total xp at stat cap, not a fixed value.
Then you could reduce the PE xp gain rate (which is way too fast atm) to bring it in line with the time it takes a tank or apu to reach stat cap, but the time to WoC would be the same too.
Ie. You need 160 (stat cap xp) + 100 mil xp to reach WoC1 for spies, monks and tanks.
A PE dex would need 24 mil xp + 15 mil xp to WoC1, but the gain rate would be probably less than a third as it is now.
Same for PE str.
aye... should be a percent of the cap xp for that stat.
that way everyone would need the same proportian (sp?) of xp to get woc.
Transformer
01-12-04, 00:30
Heres your Solution. Since your HC this won't take much loming. Lom your dex into vehicle use until you can drive a rhino. Get a MOVEON Marine and use like Zerk 3 and 2 then str booster back. you end up with like mid 80sh strength enable to drive and gun the rhino. Goto Gaiya or any other prefered high level mob zone. Get ammo and have fun making money/xp/techparts.
Heres your Solution. Since your HC this won't take much loming. Lom your dex into vehicle use until you can drive a rhino. Get a MOVEON Marine and use like Zerk 3 and 2 then str booster back. you end up with like mid 80sh strength enable to drive and gun the rhino. Goto Gaiya or any other prefered high level mob zone. Get ammo and have fun making money/xp/techparts.
Excuse me turrican, I'm the HC PE expert :p . I also have a LE in so those dickheads can't gank me while I'm harvesting but it also makes it hard to drive a rhino because you can't use a marine. I also used to have a tank who could drive and gun a rhino without drugs (no i wont tell u how). I used to get about 300k str xp per grim. PE's get just over a third of what tanks get in str xp so that means that I will have to kill about 2600 grims (100k xp per grim). I've prolly gone wrong somewhere in my calculations. Feel free to explain how someone has already done that since WoC came out? :eek: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
Transformer
01-12-04, 00:50
Excuse me turrican, I'm the HC PE expert :p . I also have a LE in so those dickheads can't gank me while I'm harvesting but it also makes it hard to drive a rhino because you can't use a marine. I also used to have a tank who could drive and gun a rhino without drugs (no i wont tell u how). I used to get about 300k str xp per grim. PE's get just over a third of what tanks get in str xp so that means that I will have to kill about 2600 grims (100k xp per grim). I've prolly gone wrong somewhere in my calculations. Feel free to explain how someone has already done that since WoC came out? :eek: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
Okay you little nublet. For a PE to use the Marine you simply start off with putting in the Moveon, Then the Zerk 2, Str Booster 3, put in zerk 3 then take a Beast drug, then put in the Marine. Marine will stay in when drugs wear off and if you GR just relog when synaptic is off and voila. You got a gunning/drining rhino PE. I did it on Transformer don't tell me you can't do it lol. Used to get 100's of rares that way...good times good times.
As for the Grim killing. Your rank doesn't go insanely high now when you gun the Rhino/Revler now. You'll get plenty xp from grims and kill them in seconds. Your not just limited to grims as well. Just kill every damn thing that moves.
Oh and if you were to decide to make this setup i would recomend picking up recylcing and some repair so you can recycle more ammo with the crap loots and repair your tank since the remote repair tool was re-introduced.
He said he has a LE in... he cant put a marine in till he pops the LE out :(
Jesterthegreat
01-12-04, 01:29
He said he has a LE in... he cant put a marine in till he pops the LE out :(
perma drug then...
my PE never goes into combat without 4 drugs these days...
1 to get to marine req, 1 to get high enough i dont have to relog before each fight to activate marine, 1 to activate crahn epic glove, 1 to activate DB sanctum.
i dont think ayones saying its impossible... but its way way harder than any other class because its not in proportion
Mechanicus
01-12-04, 03:07
i think all these newbie HC PEs need to die in a car fire
i was one of the 2 originals (ok the second)
Jesterthegreat
01-12-04, 03:08
i think all these newbie HC PEs need to die in a car fire
i was one of the 2 originals (ok the second)
you knew everyones setup on every server well enough to claim that to inflate the old ego eh?
how about you kill your ego in a car fire?
Mechanicus
01-12-04, 03:53
no but i was the second person to boast about it on the forum, everybody knows thats the mark of a true pvper
Some (most) of us have never posted a live setup on here. Maybe for good reasons ;).
i think all these newbie HC PEs need to die in a car fire
i was one of the 2 originals (ok the second)
Wow that is one big claim, and I think it's false ;)
Since in NC betas there were alot of people that didin't actually know the hell about classes and professions, I think someone accidentally made h-c pe and even played it :rolleyes: Like my m8 the h-c spy :D
Wow that is one big claim, and I think it's false ;)
Since in NC betas there were alot of people that didin't actually know the hell about classes and professions, I think someone accidentally made h-c pe and even played it :rolleyes: Like my m8 the h-c spy :D
Back then HC PE was completely viable.
Mechanicus
01-12-04, 13:48
i meant good ones not newbies who didnt know better
and surely you knew i was just acting dumb when i said all great pvpers boast on forums
lolz people actting like its so uber |337 to be H-C and getting all anti social about it :lol:
KK should go back to the drawing boards with PE's cause right now they're disadvantaged in too many ways.
Back then HC PE was completely viable.
It is viable. Fought loads of ppl in NF on my HC PE and won (zeltarg is my pes name). That was before i had a DB. shelter and moveon. If i didnt have an LE (or if KK did so it didnt take up and imp slot :mad:) I could also put in a PP resistor.
EDIT: Did some more research into grim hunting in a rhino and found (PE):
Average str XP for a grim (percy and chaser) is: 69.5k
Average amount of shots to kill a grim: 40
RoF of rhino: 65/min
Amount of dead grims to reach 260 mil xp: 3741
How long it would take if you were constantly shooting a grim:2302 mins (38 hours).
I think that I can safely say that I'm never going to try that :wtf:
As for the Grim killing. Your rank doesn't go insanely high now when you gun the Rhino/Revler now. You'll get plenty xp from grims and kill them in seconds. Your not just limited to grims as well. Just kill every damn thing that moves.
My rank still goes goes up to 80 in a rhino and 55 (?) in a reveler. I thought u got more xp if you have a high rank
I meant viable as in access to rares, using HC PA, etc.
You get most XP if your rank is close to but below the mob. Yellow is best in other words. Green (ie having higher rank) gets very little at all.
I meant viable as in access to rares, using HC PA, etc.
You get most XP if your rank is close to but below the mob. Yellow is best in other words. Green (ie having higher rank) gets very little at all.
I like the way that HC PEs are atm (high defence, low damage). Just bit confused as to why PEs need as much str xp to get WoC as tanks do but they get one third the xp
Just bit confused as to why PEs need as much str xp to get WoC as tanks do but they get one third the xp
I agree it's not right atm but then neither was it ever right that they could cap in a tiny fraction of the time other classes took. Two wrongs don't make a right but it's worth noting how much more noise the latter is causing.
As I said before I think the whole class needs to be re-thought. Either that or KK should dump specialisation completely and risk that the game may actually improve for once.
I agree it's not right atm but then neither was it ever right that they could cap in a tiny fraction of the time other classes took. Two wrongs don't make a right but it's worth noting how much more noise the latter is causing
Who is the right person to PM for that?
Who is the right person to PM for that?
I don't follow you :confused:
I don't follow you :confused:
Who do I PM to say that I'm not happy with PE str WoC?
Who do I PM to say that I'm not happy with PE str WoC?
Oh I see.
No idea, you'd have to find someone at KK that actually plays the game I guess. Good luck.
Jesterthegreat
01-12-04, 19:57
Oh I see.
No idea, you'd have to find someone at KK that actually plays the game I guess. Good luck.
hahaha :D
and yeah str PE's dont need PA or rares... a str based pe has low tech defences (pp / moveon, inq4 armour to make up loss of nrg belt) and (with DB) tank damage.
hell i took down a CS / Dev usin tank in NF with 1 clip...im not saying thats the norm, but it shows its hardly low damage :) and yeah i admit NF is bullshit for anything and cant be taken as fact :)
oh and if you really wanna scare people, use a DB sanc... 120 secs of DB, anti drugs are useless... with all the dex you got they shouldnt out run you...
hahaha :D
and yeah str PE's dont need PA or rares... a str based pe has low tech defences (pp / moveon, inq4 armour to make up loss of nrg belt) and (with DB) tank damage.
hell i took down a CS / Dev usin tank in NF with 1 clip...im not saying thats the norm, but it shows its hardly low damage :) and yeah i admit NF is bullshit for anything and cant be taken as fact :)
oh and if you really wanna scare people, use a DB sanc... 120 secs of DB, anti drugs are useless... with all the dex you got they shouldnt out run you...
I once fought a high lvl tank who i could kill with about 3 bursts. Some people just love putting all their con into HP. Shame I can' use the db sanc without drugs but while looking db sanc up on a website i spotted a tl 81 plasma wave that i didnt know about. Can't use it til the LE stops taking up a brain slot tho (there's a german thread somewhere about this and apparently and KK seemed interested)
Umm wtf it double posted. :wtf:
If you want to be a very good HC PE you need to take a beast. It does like 7/10 the dmg a CS does and you have a shelter and damage boost so you can do a fuck load of dmg and take more then a tank. But if you dont want to drug i would sugest useing the CM epic. It does so much dmg for the TL and its easy to aim with.
P.S. dont use the tl 81 plasma wave its a POS ;)
If you want to be a very good HC PE you need to take a beast. It does like 7/10 the dmg a CS does and you have a shelter and damage boost so you can do a fuck load of dmg and take more then a tank. But if you dont want to drug i would sugest useing the CM epic. It does so much dmg for the TL and its easy to aim with.
P.S. dont use the tl 81 plasma wave its a POS ;)
What does 7/10 the dmg of a CS? TPC? I'm going to use the plasma wave coz u said not to (dunno wat POS means). I love using setup's that other people don't use and it what makes NC good for me. Like the time I made a PE setup based on the TL 83(?) fusion pistol.
Jesterthegreat
02-12-04, 01:38
What does 7/10 the dmg of a CS?
a beast apparently?
Dribble Joy
02-12-04, 02:12
I am definitly (within the grounds of the current an probably most other game mechanic orientations) for specialisation.
As explained previously in another thread hidden in the depths of the n00b forum, specialisation is a good thing.
The whole point of specialisation is that it does NOT let you do what ever you want to do.
Say we can cap our weapons fully, what does that give us?
If anything it actually means less choices.
The only thing that is a variable is the weapon you are using.
It means even more cookie cutter setups.
Take PEs, given ease of full capping weapons, the only thing you need is Dex to reach the weapon of choice, everything else is defence orientated.
Other than the specifics of Con balance (which is pretty much sorted anyway), you will create about 4 or 5 setups that people will use.
Gone will be the low offence/high defence Judge setups, or the high offence/low defence ones, same for the BoH or the RoLH, or setups inbetween.
By restricting what people can do you create many more choices in what is possible do.
You are forced to make sacrifices, you cannot have everything.
So people have thier fully capped weapons and thier shit loads of free points.
What will they do?
Stuff it into something that they allready have specced, like AGL.
So say you put a run speed cap in place. What will happen?
Oh look everyone has the same AGL.
What will they do with the rest?
Exactly the same.
It goes on and on untill everyone is the same. For all skills.
Yes it is harder to balance, but it is far more interesting.
Flame me, go on, you know you want to.
I couldn't disagree more DJ, but I have no desire to flame you :p.
From a purely "fun" point of view specialisation has done more to empty the streets of Neocron than the generation ships to Irata and with good reasons :
- Specialisation means the "best" characters in any field can only do that one thing - this is boring after a relatively short time. When people get bored they leave.
- Self-suficiency is impossible - yes, this is an MMO but people like the option to not HAVE to rely on others all the time. Not only that but with current (and all past) server populations they need and deserve that option.
- Weapon balance is fucked because people can only use one class of weapon so they are all becoming more and more homogenous.
- Class balance is likewise wrecked. Just look at the train-wreck that is the PE class and I'm sure I don't need to mention Monks here.
- Cookie cutters - if there's one clear way to do something best, people will do it.
- Too many alts - why should everyone need at least 3 alts just to play the game? Alts should be about experiencing the game anew from a different perspective, not a necessity just to play.
It's not all about setups and specs. People can make optimal characters for any single aspect of the game with or without specialisation, the problem with having it is that you can't do jack-shit else if you want to compete. I play this game to have fun in a virtual world with less restrictions than IRL, not one with more. I would much rather have a fun and unique character that can do five things very well than one I've grown to hate because he can only do one thing and is identical to at least half the other members of his class. I know you've played a pistol PE for years but most people want a bit more variety to their gaming than that. Rolling more characters only goes so far.
People won't be better fighters or constructors or whatever if the game were more open but they would be able to do more than one thing over and over again until they quit.
Maybe other people can put up with this specialisation crap but I know I'll never pay for another MMO that is made this way - NC has shown me very clearly that it wrecks games.
What does 7/10 the dmg of a CS? TPC? I'm going to use the plasma wave coz u said not to (dunno wat POS means). I love using setup's that other people don't use and it what makes NC good for me. Like the time I made a PE setup based on the TL 83(?) fusion pistol.
Yeah I am a dumb ass and forgot to type TPC.
And POS = Piece of shit. And what I said about the plasma wave was for pvp for pvm its not that bad (but the CM epic is better by far).
It is viable. Fought loads of ppl in NF on my HC PE and won (zeltarg is my pes name). That was before i had a DB. shelter and moveon. If i didnt have an LE (or if KK did so it didnt take up and imp slot :mad:) I could also put in a PP resistor.
EDIT: Did some more research into grim hunting in a rhino and found (PE):
Average str XP for a grim (percy and chaser) is: 69.5k
Average amount of shots to kill a grim: 40
RoF of rhino: 65/min
Amount of dead grims to reach 260 mil xp: 3741
How long it would take if you were constantly shooting a grim:2302 mins (38 hours).
I think that I can safely say that I'm never going to try that :wtf:
.....
INT on a monk :rolleyes:
I just started to doing tl 150 ress missions I can easy count that I need about 4300 bps just to cap!!!!!!!
4300 bps and one takes 85 s with a 15 / 20 % chance of failure thats 5160 bps and times 85 = 438600 s / 3600 = 121.83 hours.. then I need to get to the lvl 1 WoC.....
I feel bad with you 38 hours of hunting :( just 1½ day and you can get a WoC lvl so hard so hard :( *need to cry*
When a PE gets the first WoC 5 lvl a int monk will prob. get close to ½ of the 2nd WoC...
So plz stfu with the PE exp gain, you can cap in 2 days live with it...
I couldn't disagree more DJ, but I have no desire to flame you :p.
From a purely "fun" point of view specialisation has done more to empty the streets of Neocron than the generation ships to Irata and with good reasons :
- Specialisation means the "best" characters in any field can only do that one thing - this is boring after a relatively short time. When people get bored they leave.
- Self-suficiency is impossible - yes, this is an MMO but people like the option to not HAVE to rely on others all the time. Not only that but with current (and all past) server populations they need and deserve that option.
- Weapon balance is fucked because people can only use one class of weapon so they are all becoming more and more homogenous.
- Class balance is likewise wrecked. Just look at the train-wreck that is the PE class and I'm sure I don't need to mention Monks here.
- Cookie cutters - if there's one clear way to do something best, people will do it.
- Too many alts - why should everyone need at least 3 alts just to play the game? Alts should be about experiencing the game anew from a different perspective, not a necessity just to play.
It's not all about setups and specs. People can make optimal characters for any single aspect of the game with or without specialisation, the problem with having it is that you can't do jack-shit else if you want to compete. I play this game to have fun in a virtual world with less restrictions than IRL, not one with more. I would much rather have a fun and unique character that can do five things very well than one I've grown to hate because he can only do one thing and is identical to at least half the other members of his class. I know you've played a pistol PE for years but most people want a bit more variety to their gaming than that. Rolling more characters only goes so far.
People won't be better fighters or constructors or whatever if the game were more open but they would be able to do more than one thing over and over again until they quit.
Maybe other people can put up with this specialisation crap but I know I'll never pay for another MMO that is made this way - NC has shown me very clearly that it wrecks games.
Great post jernau, I'm a week away from getting broadband and being able to play NC again after 6 months without it and I have a feeling I wont last a week before I pack my bags and leave.
Post after post the few forumites that can see beyond making their own runners leet put good ideas on how to improve the game but KK ignore them, even KKs own initiatives like 'theme weeks' have stopped after only 1 week.
My forum joined date shows how long I've been here but I'm seriously thinking with WoW around the corner I wont be here for much longer.
Jesterthegreat
02-12-04, 20:01
.....
INT on a monk :rolleyes:
I just started to doing tl 150 ress missions I can easy count that I need about 4300 bps just to cap!!!!!!!
4300 bps and one takes 85 s with a 15 / 20 % chance of failure thats 5160 bps and times 85 = 438600 s / 3600 = 121.83 hours.. then I need to get to the lvl 1 WoC.....
I feel bad with you 38 hours of hunting :( just 1½ day and you can get a WoC lvl so hard so hard :( *need to cry*
When a PE gets the first WoC 5 lvl a int monk will prob. get close to ½ of the 2nd WoC...
So plz stfu with the PE exp gain, you can cap in 2 days live with it...
way to post construcively...
if i could be bothered i would get int woc... if speeds an issue buy BP's for res missions. try to do similar for a PE?
PE gain is shit... they cap quick because they have lower caps... the advantage of pe gain is all stats level in teams, and not much is needed
.....
INT on a monk :rolleyes:
I just started to doing tl 150 ress missions I can easy count that I need about 4300 bps just to cap!!!!!!!
4300 bps and one takes 85 s with a 15 / 20 % chance of failure thats 5160 bps and times 85 = 438600 s / 3600 = 121.83 hours.. then I need to get to the lvl 1 WoC.....
I feel bad with you 38 hours of hunting :( just 1½ day and you can get a WoC lvl so hard so hard :( *need to cry*
So plz stfu with the PE exp gain, you can cap in 2 days live with it...
That's 38 hours of continuously shooting. As in no reloading, no recoil, constantly shooting a grim as in it never dies, not having to find the grim, not having to get ammo, not having to rep the rhino etc
EDIT: and im sure making bps isnt the easiest way to level int (if a monk was constantly shooting a grim with a HL or whatever he would get WoC quicker than a PE would get str WoC)
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