View Full Version : The reason i don't play much NC at the moment - another wipe?
DigestiveBiscui
24-11-04, 15:55
Before you start flaming me about how i should wait for it, and that KK are sorting it out as we speak, read what i have to say.
Everyone playing NC1 would of known about the good old item wipe that brought us into NC2. Now, i had no problem with that really. I got to keep my 10 items and my MC5 chips and SF's etc, and i only had to redo the epics which wasn't a problem, but this is the way i see it.
KK made the wipe so that they could introduce item tracking - which is a great idea, and should of been here from the start, which made me even less angry about an item wipe.
Then NC2 came out, and they mentioned that they are still working on the item tracking for neocron 2 and it's there main priority, which also, i didn't mind about - until now when i thought of it.
KK did the item wipe for the reason that it would be easier for them to start a fresh, and track items and the player get them in nc2, that way they didn't need to track cabs of stuff from nc1, just the thing we brought over in our belts from the wipe.
So when NC2 comes out, and it's still not in, then people have now started making cabs of stuff again. And it's a good 2-3 months into nc2 now, and still no item tracking.
To be honest - we are at the same point as in NC1. Players have a lot of stuff in cabs. Clans have nice clanapps, tradeskiller have tech app's and so on. So, what now?
When KK get item tracking then they should do another item wipe surely? Unless all along KK could of simply done the item tracking with all the old items from NC1
In my eyes - KK have fucked eveyone over again, and they have two choices
1. Make item tracking - wallah it's here. But if they don't do another item wipe (which i fucking hope they don't) then why did they need to do the first one??? In NC1 i had 5 apps full of shit - NC2 atm i had (last time i logged on) 3 apps already. So it's still a lot of items to track.
2. Do another char wipe, because they need a fresh start to sort the item tracking - thus fucking everyone over and leaving the game
See where i'm coming from?? To me, it doesn't add up
DB (wondering why KK did the wipe)
What makes you think they're even considering a wipe after hundreds of account paying customers have been playing for months? O_o
If they were to introduce item tracking now then they would ID all existing items in the database and then start logging from that point.
If they wiped everthing then expect most of KK's customer base to cancel their accounts straight away ... that would include me.
DigestiveBiscui
24-11-04, 16:06
What makes you think they're even considering a wipe after hundreds of account paying customers have been playing for months? O_o
If they were to introduce item tracking now then they would ID all existing items in the database and then start logging from that point.
If they wiped everthing then expect most of KK's customer base to cancel their accounts straight away ... that would include me.
yea, but think about it for a second
ok, fine, they don't do a wipe - but that means they didn't really need to do an item wipe for NC1. why didn't they ID all the existing items over active accounts and bring them over
And don't say 'because there were shitloads' because we are getting to the point where there are shitloads of items in nc2
So, how do you know there has to be an itemwipe when item tracking will be introduced? Hard facts? No? o_O
DigestiveBiscui
24-11-04, 16:18
So, how do you know there has to be an itemwipe when item tracking will be introduced? Hard facts? No? o_O
did u read my post? doubt it
both of the choices are there - but either way it makes no sense as to why the original item wipe happend
Wasn't the wipe partly on account of the "new economy" (which is fucked allready) allso?
Obsidian X
24-11-04, 16:19
I thought the original idea behind the item wipe was to:
1) Rid Neocron 2 of duped and illegal items.
2) Close the disparity gap between noobs and vets in NC2. If vets took all of their stuff with them, chances are P2P trade between haves and have-nots would be non-existent.
3) As above, to give everyone a fair chance as opposed to having all the vets with their empires of rares and vehicles etc.
Don't remember it being anything to do with the implementation of tracking. Adding a tracking DB wouldn't require a complete wipe I wouldn't have thought. o_O
And KK wouldn't do another wipe, as they risk losing 90% of their customers. (I hope) :wtf:
Edit: 4) As MaGn0lia says, to try to sort out the borked economy. Forgot about that one :)
If I remember it correctly, one of the reasons (not the sole reason) behind the wipe going to NC2 was something in the order of "To get a fresh database for the item tracking, since it would be too complex to apply it to the existing database".
I might be wrong, but I'm quite sure I read this, which is indeed enough for Digestive (and others) to be concerned.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Bugs Gunny
24-11-04, 16:28
The man has a point.
I'm shure they won't whipe all things again, it would account to putting a gun to their head and pulling the trigger.
Awww crap. You know what DB? I think you might have a point. IMHO the only real TECHNICAL reason that you wouldn't want to move all the items out of NC1 and put them into NC2 is time - it can take a freaking long time to do things with databases, and I should know. A script developed here at work to do some jiggery-pokery to 21,000 records (a fraction of the number of items in NC1 on all servers I'm sure) took 10 hours to run - and thats on a decent Oracle server with good hardware. Thats just editing records - migrate them to another database and it takes time to import that data too.
So, lets assume that it was actually possible to import all our items into NC2 but there were other beneficial reasons for not doing so, then surely as DB suggests we are in the same situation.
I see it as entirely possible that items are still being duplicated with new or existing bugs, and without item tracking in place, these are just as problematic as the duped items in NC1. The economy is still pretty busted in NC2, but a different kind of busted. Then you have the possibility of many new players (i.e. the Asian market) who will have the ability, if not the desire, to make characters on Terra. Don't all the current players have an advantage over them? And wont every account that gets created later on being in the same position? Where does the line get drawn I wonder?
Incoming item wipe?
We shall see. 8|
The wipe was so that old players didn't have apts full of items for the release of a new game.
Thats fair enough.....
What makes you think they're even considering a wipe after hundreds of account paying customers have been playing for months? O_o
If they wiped everthing then expect most of KK's customer base to cancel their accounts straight away ... that would include me.
All this...
hasn't stopped them in the past and just remember the hundreds of accounts they were gonna loose before nc2 to that still didn't stop them, if there's one thing about kk its that they dont give a shit about YOUR work or YOUR effort.
Should know this from the sledghammer nerfs ppl get to their work, although they claim it was needed for balance there is a thing called tweaking and the test server but nope they just slammed em straight up, the heartless mail backs from support when whole clan apts are deleted when peoples invs are completely lost.
Or how about when half the servers got fucked over cuz they added that LOMs became LOLS after the patch was put in so ppl lomed levels before they realised what was happenin....
if they wanna they will wipe them cabs and you will have to "Deal with It" as they like to put it
maybe this front is slowly changing with Holgar bein a the man incharge but we'll have to see only time will tell
I am with digi on this one,
1) If wipe was to make item tracking easier, then we are screwed again
2) If wipe was to bring everyone onto the same playing field, then KK have no regards or respect for its vets, the guy who have paid to be screwed. Screw te noobs then, if they don't have something, they must work for it, we already did. Why should we be screwed, the vets with all those apps.
3) If the wipe was to remove all the dupes in the game , Are we sure this has happened ? Especially first few weeks, where there been money exploits found.
Item tracking was a selling point to KK's community, as part of its improved service, on this you can do further reading, from MJS himself
Hmm, I wonder if they would dare risk another wipe. A semi wipe on saturn lost them a lot of players, thats the Pre jump to NC2 wipe ... I bet ya no official response from KK on this subject, but good point Dig
Maybe they didn't do item tracking in NC1 because they were lacking some information stored in the database at the beginning so they could link items and owner correctly.
Maybe those infos are stored now within the NC2 database tables format, so they have ownership from the start.
And so the delay is because they need more time to sort some stuff out, like having a dedicated server doing some work in the background, or decent tool for GM to handle recovery, etc... :rolleyes:
Don't make too much asumptions about how a system works when you dont have access to the source code itself, db tables format etc ...
But i do agree, KK has a long track record of fucking up stuff...I do.
And your "maybe" can be as valid as mines.
If theres another wipe well bye bye neocron. It wont survive very long without people playing. Theres only so much you can push people. No WOC, item tracking, new lag bugs, no worthwhile events or content of anykin. I havent seen a patch in a while ok so there expanding into asia new players ok but they have had 2 weeks since the last patch its a joke.
I have to say though they pulled of a good con getting us to pay for a downgrade on a service. WoW hits europe january run by a big company who know what they are doing. If neocron isnt improved by then well i can see alot of people changing games. If not for WoW for something else.
Maybe they didn't do item tracking in NC1 because they were lacking some information stored in the database at the beginning so they could link items and owner correctly.
Maybe those infos are stored now within the NC2 database tables format, so they have ownership from the start.
And so the delay is because they need more time to sort some stuff out, like having a dedicated server doing some work in the background, or decent tool for GM to handle recovery, etc... :rolleyes:
Don't make too much asumptions about how a system works when you dont have access to the source code itself, db tables format etc ...
But i do agree, KK has a long track record of fucking up stuff...I do.
And your "maybe" can be as valid as mines.
This is funny ... Mebbe, mebbe, Mebbe then don't make too many assumptions...
Dig has a paradox he has presented. No matter what the answer, it means KK has screwed us... Their justification for the wipe was..... introducing tracking, this did not transpire, so their for they wiped without justification....
This is funny ... Mebbe, mebbe, Mebbe then don't make too many assumptions...
Dig has a paradox he has presented. No matter what the answer, it means KK has screwed us... Their justification for the wipe was..... introducing tracking, this did not transpire, so their for they wiped without justification....
But its a big "if" at the moment ....... I'm sitting here wondoering why are we even bothering to contemplating this at all when nothing has been announced? o_O
The wipe was pointless, idiotic and served no purpose other than to drive off even more of the playerbase.
Would they do it again?
Maybe - I could hardly believe they were dumb enough to do it once so maybe there are no limits. :rolleyes:
I think KK wiped to create a timesink on top of the "new and improved timesinks" so we would have stuff to do ALL OVER again as they knew that NC2 didn't have anything new that would be working at release.
So get people to upgrade, make it "logical" to pay for 3 months in advance to save some money with the new price hike and cha-ching!
Well, that's what it looks like anyway from one point of view.
I agree. I'm moving a Sybase dB from an old machine to a SunFire 210. Just running bcp is taking is time to extract the very few records we have (~30000), and the records are not big either :(
Still nothing has been said about the NC1 item wipe and neither will there be, because if I were running a company I'd never admit to this. So you'll all have to gossip instead. :)
Awww crap. You know what DB? I think you might have a point. IMHO the only real TECHNICAL reason that you wouldn't want to move all the items out of NC1 and put them into NC2 is time - it can take a freaking long time to do things with databases, and I should know. A script developed here at work to do some jiggery-pokery to 21,000 records (a fraction of the number of items in NC1 on all servers I'm sure) took 10 hours to run - and thats on a decent Oracle server with good hardware. Thats just editing records - migrate them to another database and it takes time to import that data too.
So, lets assume that it was actually possible to import all our items into NC2 but there were other beneficial reasons for not doing so, then surely as DB suggests we are in the same situation.
I see it as entirely possible that items are still being duplicated with new or existing bugs, and without item tracking in place, these are just as problematic as the duped items in NC1. The economy is still pretty busted in NC2, but a different kind of busted. Then you have the possibility of many new players (i.e. the Asian market) who will have the ability, if not the desire, to make characters on Terra. Don't all the current players have an advantage over them? And wont every account that gets created later on being in the same position? Where does the line get drawn I wonder?
Incoming item wipe?
We shall see. 8|
I don't accept it was a time issue wrt the DB. They had DAYS to play with. Even on mySQL you could migrate terabytes of data in that time.
It could have been a complexity issue if there was some validation or manipulation in the transit but they had months (or years) to get that sorted on test rigs.
IMO the only reason for the wipe was to give the new and horribly ill-concieved trade system a fresh start. Considering how bad an idea said system obviously was/is it's a bit like saying "I have to kick you in the gonads now because tomorrow I'm going to hit you in the face with a cricket bat".
the reasion i dont play neocron at all is that neocron 2 was such a disapointment and half wat was promised never arrived after years of faithfull support where i never once said a bad word about kk and the team and to get 1 new city and some minor changes im not impressed after waiting nearly 2 years.
DigestiveBiscui
24-11-04, 23:57
This is funny ... Mebbe, mebbe, Mebbe then don't make too many assumptions...
Dig has a paradox he has presented. No matter what the answer, it means KK has screwed us... Their justification for the wipe was..... introducing tracking, this did not transpire, so their for they wiped without justification....
perfection in a post :) i just thought i would drag mine on for a bit longer :p
But its a big "if" at the moment ....... I'm sitting here wondoering why are we even bothering to contemplating this at all when nothing has been announced?
as for that - its 100% certain that KK have screwed us, there is no IF there :) the only 'if' is whether or not they wil wipe again
KK aint going to do an item wipe, at this point....
It would be suicide......
DigestiveBiscui
25-11-04, 00:16
KK aint going to do an item wipe, at this point....
It would be suicide......
then they screwed us over with the nc1 item wipe
see the pattern yet? :p
Maybe see what the Germans want and hold on for the ride - for the sake of a few BPs and rares they have royally screwerd all of us over.
I can see it coming at about the 3 month stage - "We have come to look after the international players - have this free item wipe as a token of our appreciation for staying for so long".
Or maybe we could have a "item wipe theme week" - how often can you gather the rare parts before we wipe the database - prizes for all (It worked soooooooo well on Saturn).
:rolleyes:
DigestiveBiscui
25-11-04, 03:35
ya know - it's scary how so many people agree with me :S i was expecting flameage lol
trigger hurt
25-11-04, 04:32
Well, I still log on semi daily. Here lately, daily cause I have been a little sick and can't stay with my fiancee and her child. But, everytime I log on, I wonder...will this be the day I go level and gain that last dex or int level I need to cap and tomorrow, it will all be gone? What will I trade then end up losing the item I got and the item I traded away due to a rollback.
Personally, I think the wipe was bullshit. There was absolutly no reason to wipe everything that was gone. If the nc1 database wasn't compatible with the nc2 database, that is a fault of KK. They had 2+ years to get the fucker up to code...
The other thing that pissed me off was the final saturn rollback. Rolling a server back almost a full month is a little wishy washy to me. I still find it difficult to beleive that a company, even a tiny one like KK could possibly backup data and fail to validate it...or fail to back it up at all...thus causing me to lose a capped (except int) monk that I started on the 7th of september and the rollback went to the 5th.
Bullshit, tbh.
Richard Blade
25-11-04, 04:36
Yes DB, I see your logic and it proves perfect sense in my mind.
The only “good” reasons they have to fall back on are:
Removal of illegal items.
“Enhanced” player to player trade with a reworked faction based system.
As has been mentioned, it turned out abysmally.
Although, in the interest of making more money, they succeeded. Now, if you don’t want to wait for days looking for an enemy player to “be nice” and trade you something you need, your best bet is to buy another account and level up a mule.
Although, in the interest of making more money, they succeeded.
That seems to be looking like the idea behind all that bullshit we went through.
A lot of it just doesn't add up, but it makes perfect sense as a way to cash in on us. :(
Or maybe we could have a "item wipe theme week" - how often can you gather the rare parts before we wipe the database - prizes for all (It worked soooooooo well on Saturn).
:rolleyes:
Thats Funny, Item Wipe theme week.
And for the Asian servers / markets have a weekly wipe, that way they don't need back ups anyways
DigestiveBiscui
25-11-04, 14:55
Thats Funny, Item Wipe theme week.
And for the Asian servers / markets have a weekly wipe, that way they don't need back ups anyways
yea that'll be the next one
'Due to our release on the Asian market, we have decided it is only fair for the Asian players wanting to play on the current NC2 servers, to do an item wipe.....blah blah blah'
also, someone posted that the reason they did an item wipe in nc1 was the get rid of duped items. It's been 3 months in, a lot of the people that duped shit in nc1 never got banned because KK like the money in their pocket so much - so i would bet that the duped shit is back.
I've lost patience with this thread. No suggestion has ever been given that another wipe is incoming so there's no point in complaining about supposition. Some people will read this and get the wrong impression and one of my responsibilities is to make sure that doesn't happen.
The Asian market will receive their own servers so the two communities will be entirely separate.
The suggestion that KK would allow exploiters and especially dupers to go scot free to make a quick buck is frankly nothing more than offensive trolling which is a breach of the rules. Keep such comments to yourself in future.
Many dupe exploits have been closed since the release of NC2 so we don't perceive there to be a problem that would require a wipe anyway (not that I'm aware of at any rate).
IF KK propose another wipe in future then you will be free to discuss it, but until then this thread is closed.
N
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