View Full Version : Newb retention rate
I've come to the conclusion that bad server populations are because we can't keep the trial members interested in the game enough to get hooked and become subscribers. Reason? There was a huge population decrease right around the time the trial period stopped. I think newbs aren't given enough time to get into any pvp or really start seeing why leveling can be so beneficial and ow much you grow, etc.
edit: plus the newb runner forum used to be a freakin zoo, now there is hardly any posts in comparison.
It's all the 12 year old kids jumping from trial to trial and never paying for anything.
It's all the 12 year old kids jumping from trial to trial and never paying for anything.
That may account for some of them, but the rest probably left because of the same reason KK can't keep old players.
Some of it also probably comes from people like me who don't bother with ranks before they shoot. But it's not my fault they took their LE out too early. ;)
The main reason noobs leave, (imho) is that there is WAY too much to learn and not enough ppl willing to take the time and effort to hook a noob up with jsut the basics.
I ahven't been playing that long, I was lucky to get hooked in beta. There is still a TON of stuff i jsut don't get. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I am certainly no dumdum. There is years of depth and development in the game that someone just dumped in can easily feel overwhelmed. Couple that with no smooth easy way to get a handle on jsut the basics makes it a very daunting task for a game.
All the info is out there to find, but to get a good grasp on how things work sometimes is a real booger. Those of us who have a significant amount of tinacity will find what we need (and copious ampounts of free time) to make it worthwhile.
For a casual gamer, there is jsut too much to try to find out about jsut to create a viable character.
This isn't yer usual click and kill game . . . .
Not everybody plays purely for PvP. Perhaps other factors may discourage new players staying on after seeing what's in store for them. Here's my own opinion of what might put off a new player:
1) Lack of understanding of factions at character creation. Let's face it, if u made a DoY character and wandered thru the empty Dome for a few hours trying to find something to do, would YOU stay?
2) Closed areas.
3) Extensive timesinks and moneysinks to do anything.
4) Some tasks just being annoyingly repetitive.
5) Lack of practical ingame help from experienced players. (i don't mean verbal help on help chat channel, i mean "holding their hand" type help in being shown around, getting their first items etc.)
6) Player griefing. (No, not just simple PKing, i mean allied noob killing in plaza "because they can". Not once, but over and over and over so they cant even get their stuff back)
7) Some tasks just being annoyingly repetitive.
8) Lack of NPC help with basic tasks and skills. The personal skills advisors were such a good idea. Why are they STILL not working? NPCs to help new players should be TOP priority from a revenue point of view.
9) Lack of knowledge of all in game items. i.e. nothing to aim for - they are high enough level to use all weapons sold in A&W now. Now what? do they know about the higher TL weapons so they can look for them? do they know about rares? do they know about what implants do what and where to get them?
10) Some tasks just being annoyingly repetitive.
11) Lack of a long term goal. Does a new player know what they should be aiming for? Do they know what WoC is? Do they find NPCs scattered about the wastelands giving hints and clues where to find this information?
12) Some tasks just being annoyingly repetitive.
As you can see, this is far from being a KK flamefest; veteran players and the new players themselves have a part to play in their gaming experience. Perhaps KK are victims of their own success here, in that there are so many zones and dungeons to explore and new technologies to experience, like vehicles, apartments, furniture, hacknet, epics, OP capturing etc. that a new player cannot experience all of this in their trial period. Perhaps they leave the game not even knowing that half if it exists. The points i made regarding game mechanics etc. can be easily changed, so it's not a game design issue, more a "change the money algorithms" and perhaps a "add a carefully scripted NPC" issue.
Well, that's just my two cents anyway. I was a noob once. I was overawed at the amount of content to explore, but my advantage was a RL friend who showed me the ropes and invited me to his clan, where i learned all i know now.
It's just being in the right place at the right time, i guess.
Jesterthegreat
24-11-04, 01:37
This isn't yer usual click and kill game . . . .
and thank god!
however i agree that theres a hell of a lot of info a new player would want that just isnt provided.
i checked the info on the Psi skilll window... you know what i found? Exotic Psi Use. that was removed roughly 2 years ago, and yet its in NC2's help window (as it was in NC1 for the whole retail period)
little things make a difference.
the majority of MMORPG's i have played have a Mentor system (or similar) where you can bring up a list of advisers who will help you with problems. if something like this was brought ingame, and it was explained in char creation process (as well as patch notes for new chars that already exist) it would make being a noob a hell of alot easier.
when i started playing FFXI online i had no clue what was happening... a LinkShell invited me and taught me everything i wanted to know. that just doesnt happen in NC
Missing player shops to help the distribution system and outstanding bugs such as the drone hud are not going to be helping.
Athon Solo
Doc Holliday
24-11-04, 02:06
Missing player shops to help the distribution system and outstanding bugs such as the drone hud are not going to be helping.
Athon Solo
lol stop moaning about that fs.
superfresh
24-11-04, 07:19
Might be good if you couldn't take the LE out until lvl 20 or something. There's nothing KK can do to warn new players regarding how ferocious the current playerbase is, and someone coming from the average RPG might instinctively opt for that fourth chip slot.
Having rolled some new characters I think there is plenty that would intrigue new players. I was mesmerized and lost the first few months after I got into NC. Old-school players tend to forget what NC is like when it is new.
Allowing LE-based clans might also encourage newcomers to stick with NC. A big problem is that the LE is needed for newcomers to learn NC, and a big part of NC is supposed to be community based. But the LE, the way it is currently implemented, almost alienates players from the in-game community; although there are tons of players using them, and they do team at places like the aggie cellars and cyclops bunker, they do so for convenience and not for survival or otherwise. A lot of LE users end up playing NC like its a single player game. There needs to be something to encourage LE users to interact with everyone else so that many who are discouraged from doing so might actually be anxious to remove the LE for reasons other than freeing up a chip slot. There are exceptions I am sure but it doesn't seem like most LE users interact unless they need to.
Oh yeah and removing epic kills would help. They're not needed to introduce players to PvP. They will discover that soon after they take their LE out.
maybe it also has to do with hardly any new people coming in i mean most of the major video game sites do not even have a listing that this game even exists maybe the trials were all quitting during the period you say pops were dropping but no new ones were coming in granted its hard to sell a game with features listed that are not in game yet but they still need to get the word out about this game
what game is released then months later you cannot find it in stores accept in germany
apparently reakktor is doing so good they can pay gms now and try and make servers in asia but not get the word out about the game or even get the game mass distributed
maybe they will get some good asian programmers to fix teh game i hope i hope
Well the first thing to keep players is for KK to stop lying, yes I said lying, if I look back at the beta 4 when I started to play it was me and two of my friends, we were a spy, a pe and a tank, we contributed to each other, we had tradeskills and fighting skills, and guess what, they never said that tank can't effectively use rifles and spy can't effectively use heavy weapons, but that was what we were, a rifle tank, HC spy and pistol PE, and I think one problem was that our tank was the ress guy PE was the const guy and spy was repairer. We got pissed to the slow progress of our charaters so we all made new chars this time they were rifle tank, and two rifle PEs (this was because modding a streetmodel rifle with phosphor [doth weapon and ammo mod dropped by mutants in pepper sewers] were overpowered) we still built our own weapons and modded them, again PE is not the best class for this.
We tought that the city was IT, the whole place, no going out, nothing pointed in to the direction of wastes, I even tought that the world map was some sort of joke or strange map of the city (yeah I know), after propably few weeks of intense playing we finally wandered far enough in to the outzone that we actually stumbled across oz9 and the church, we were heading back to the city for ammo and took a wrong turn and came out in the wastes. After that, the game just begun, but we didn't know that, after we realized that there actually WAS a world out there. Not in any point we got help from the game, and I have still stumbled in to some nibs that think the city is the whole game. Tho I think MC5 has helped it alot, since I have never been there longer than like 1 min - 1 min 15 sec, I have played the old tutorial that got me exited about tradeskilling and hacking, old tutorial rocked.
Now in other mmorpgs I have played, there have been some confusing starts too, but the newb missions that I have done are designed pretty well, either they have been short go there come back missions (which introduce me a new place IN THE GAME WORLD NOT SOME NEWB AREA THAT YOU CAN'T GO BACK!!!!!!!!!) or gather some item (that is plenty) and bring it back and you will get better armor, weapon and some exp. Biggest problem in most mmoprgs is that your character is a complete loser in the start, I usually start my PnP roleplaying campaigns with atleast level 3 chars (D20 rules) to get some action and not kill the poor players.
But like it is said and proven, for every people it is different, and some people that have had the luck to find some "similar" games in their past have had easier start than me who have played the "normal" mmorpg and wondered how the hell did this game work.
Bugs Gunny
24-11-04, 11:18
If i hadn't been picked up by tonya's DRE crew i would still be a Barter, hacking, pistol rifle, repair, driving spy without psi skills.
In nc1 i used to make a point of helping out on noob a week.
I've been too bussy in nc2 to do that now, but i'll try doing it again once i'm set up right on all my chars.
Hell, i even gave 100k to noobs in TG canyon when i was in stealth, i was TT at the time :-)
Yeah but there is something really wrong when it is up to the players to keep the noobs, I heard that other games get players with just the game and the community is a bonus...could this be a lie?
what game is released then months later you cannot find it in stores accept in germany
A game that has only been released in Germany? ;) Neocron 2 is currently building up to a release in Asia and then the focus will be on the UK/US market.
N
Niddy it's a solid market plan and all, but I think even you would agree that KK is making a mistake NOT focusing on US/rest of Europe where they allready have a playerbase. Why asia all of a sudden?
I agree that there is a huge market there and all, alot of them must be trying to find something like NC, but western mmorpgs haven't had that much luck in asia.
Try and keep this in perspective. KK are not concentrating on Asia - all they are doing is spending a week getting another group up to speed to run it all by themselves. A week. The rest of it is handled by 10T.
N
AlphaGremlin
24-11-04, 14:12
You know, that's all news to me, Nid! I thought they were going to spend ages setting up an Asia server and all, and then that was it! So it hasn't actually been released in the US/UK yet?! 8|
If information like this was given to us, a lot of the speculation and rumours and stuff that fly around here could be laid to rest, and we'd be a much happier community! Good work :)
*sits back to wait for the word that it HAS actually been said, but I just missed it*
AlphaGremlin
*sits back to wait for the word that it HAS actually been said, but I just missed it*
AlphaGremlin
Holger's said it a couple of times actually. ;)
However, we will be busy with another task during the next week: In the near future we will be launching a server/beta test in Asia to get the word out about Neocron 2 in that area. I can’t release any details at this point, except that a new server hardware system is being set up in Asia. As a good part of our team will be occupied with this task, we would be unable to run an effective theme week.
and
At the moment, we have two friendly colleagues from Singapore at the office, and we are teaching them everything they need to know about Neocron2, the Neocron2 service and support. Both have already played both NC1 and NC2 intensively and will be responsible for the coordination of their teams in Asia. They require intensive training to be able to do that properly and we have to make the time to do just that. I think this week will be well worth the investment.
(Emphasis is mine)
N
So it's like the french server, oui?
Niddy it's a solid market plan and all, but I think even you would agree that KK is making a mistake NOT focusing on US/rest of Europe where they allready have a playerbase. Why asia all of a sudden?
I agree that there is a huge market there and all, alot of them must be trying to find something like NC, but western mmorpgs haven't had that much luck in asia.
Asia is a reseller arrangement whereas the UK/EU/US/whatever will presumably be done by KK themselves.
The amount of investment and risk is therefore (hopefully at least) less for KK in Asia. If Asia goes well they have money to do a better job on their own releases, if it doesn't they only lose a little time and not the whole company which is at risk if they go too far too quick on their own.
That's the theory anyway I believe.
Holger's said it a couple of times actually. ;)
and
(Emphasis is mine)
N
Yeah, but we all know what KK's timing is like -.-
Athon Solo
Nomad-Soul
24-11-04, 15:09
Well heres how i see it, since ive started playing (a month ago +-) I started out in Nc the ppl there werent really helpfull so i was basically soloing the game with out a clue in the world as to what to do besides lvl character and buy/research/construct my own guns i finally found about DOY then created another character also a spy/constructor and after playing a bit i noticed that the Doy guys are ALOT more helpfull! (don't ask me why though). Then got taken in by a clan and have been living happily ever after!
When ever log on my nc character the only thing i see guys doing is Allied /noob killing/ all over the place and to get any tradeskillers i have to run around for half hour and ask all over the place cause there aint seem to be that many or they just couldnt be bothered to poke a noob with a low tl imp, cause the only thing they really want it high tl pokes so they can get a BIG FAT ASS tip!
Whats really weird is that NC has alot more players than DOY and nobody can take the time to help out a noob (except for poker face i thinck hes the only real helpfull person i can remember)
DigestiveBiscui
24-11-04, 16:03
i bet you a big part of the player drop is click2pay
they suck so much balls its a mock. A few people i know from NC who live in russia can't play because they used to use paybycash and now they can't, thanks to shit2pay
well, i'm even considering quitting after the free month.. which is pretty much over..
the game's just boring.. it doesn't have any content that attracts me once i get near cap.. warbots and more warbots, or chaos caves for money and WoC..
and once that's over it's gay op fights against players who have the sportsmanship of 10 year old counterstrike players. There's no organized driving force in any of the opfights i've been in, everyone rushes around wildly in teams and that's about it.. i don't find that particularily fun i guess.
QuantumDelta
24-11-04, 17:18
It's not an intuitive game.
Most of the things about it are counter-productive to a learning curve.
It's awkward, fiddley and obstructive, with too many bugs to make it an 'easy play' like ....EQ2 or DoAC say which you can be half asleep while playing.
The community would be my biggest qualm, but yea, erm, that's not so much the thing that makes newbies leave.
Normally anyway....
Community, the reason for many to leave. Either it is the lack of friends or the overwhelming number PKrs, I think there should be like PK rates or something, you can kill 10 guys a day, if you kill 10 guys one day it lowers the rate for next day to 7 so you have to "rest" for two days for it to go back to 10 again and so on. If you kill more than your PK rate is, your char will be kicked from the server for a while and then you can come back :D
When I first got ahold of my first Damage Boost spell, I assumed it was similar to the rest of the boosts in that it enhanced the damage done by the target. As part of my poking service, I added a "free damage boost" so they could run off and do mega damage for a little while. Then someone clued me in that Damage Boost actualy weakens the target, boosting damage done *to* them. When I tried posting this on the forum here, I was told that it made perfect sense for Damage Boost to weaken the target...
Now we've been using this spell for ages and it's quite common, but think about it. The spell is "Damage Boost", yet the only boost is damage done to you, which in every other game would be something like Drain or Weaken or Curse.
That's just one example of the learning curve in this game, unless you run into one of the friendly vets then you're hopelessly lost. It's not impossible to muddle your way through it and eventualy figure out how the game works, but you shouldn't have too. It's one thing to hide advanced knowledge of the game to seperate experienced players from new ones, it's entirely different to hide almost all information, even the basic stuff.
I think the main purpose of most clans ends up being spreading around what each of us know about the game and teaching the newer members. I know that's a good part of what we did in my clan. If you never get picked up by a clan you then have to rely on random charity, hoping someone can answer your questions.
Then we have how no mechanics in the game support the new player helper. PPU's are punished for helping new players, everyone else has no reason whatsoever to even talk to new players. They won't have any worthwhile tradeskills, they won't have any items to trade with, they won't have any cash to buy stuff with. If you think ahead you could make a case that helping them now means they might later on become worthwhile to deal with.
If you think ahead you could make a case that helping them now means they might later on become worthwhile to deal with.
This is a very good point, Carinth, but not one that most people I've come across seem to share... Today's n00bs are tomorrow's (not literally!) vets... The more people we encourage into the game, the better it will be for all of us... Some of us (and by 'us' I mean the community that supposedly wants the game to go from strength to strength) seem to enjoy nothing more than killing off the future of the game...
And another thing to think about... Can anyone remember just how difficult it is to get your head around item values/sources and trading? I still struggle with this sometimes and I've been playing for ages... If you put a message on the trade channel proposing some trade that an experienced player would realise is not feasible, what happens? Does some kindly 'vet' direct you with advice and information, or does some moron just post a message something like 'lol - nice one niblet'?... Honestly - judging by the reaction a lot of new runners get when trying to learn the ropes, it's no wonder they don't play beyond the trial period!
I have met some great people playing Neocron, and am indebted to many people for the advice they gave and still give, but there simply aren't enough of them... 'Carebear' should not be a derogatory term - it should be an acknowledgement of a player's commitment to the game and it's continuation... There is no rule that says you cannot help a player out in the morning, and then go have an OP fight or a PK spree in the afternoon...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shame
what game is released then months later you cannot find it in stores accept in germany
A game that has only been released in Germany? Neocron 2 is currently building up to a release in Asia and then the focus will be on the UK/US market.
[ edited ]
QuantumDelta
25-11-04, 01:18
A)
Learn to use quotes.
B)
Please make sense.
C)
Nidhogg isn't exactly their marketing or decision making department so don't blame him o_O
:|
darknessfairy
25-11-04, 01:45
If i hadn't come into this game with people i know, i'm sure i would have quit along time ago. I understand i haven't been playing as long as some of the others have but i think 1 1/2 years is pretty long, esp by my standards cos i get bored and lose concentration very quickly.
Now when i started there was no newbie mc5, and quite frankly no help at all. I had however played the tutorial, and watched the people i knew play, so i wasn't totally clueless.
I know that the game has come so far that it is better than what it was, but it still needs help. There was a post some time ago, before NC2 was released if i remember correctly, about helping newbs. It was said that there should be a team of experienced players at the newb mc5, or in an area where they can see them, and therefore they can have personal contact with the newbs, and personally advice them on what to do.
Now i think this is still a good idea, altho it would have been alot better started when NC2 was launched. Esp with the launch of the Asian market.
Of course the basic language of the help will be the support language of the server. And if people are willing then there can be alternate language support as well. I, myself, would be quite happy to sit and wait for some newb to log in, and i'd truly help them as much as poss. I'd explain about the LE, and the pro's and cons of keeping it in, etc. Everything that they need to know.
People complain about the lose of people, the server population decreasing, but tbh what does everyone expect when a)the newbs dont have the first clue of the game or b) (Sorry to mention it, but its true) They get mindlessly ganked because no one explained what the LE was about and/or what type of people populate the server.
Just my 2pennie worth
-df-
[ edited ]
Nid can you just save your self the trouble of baning him later and do it now? :rolleyes:
superfresh
25-11-04, 09:20
Never understood why some people attack veteran community members so unabashedly. Members who, say, never post anything other than thoughtful input, helpful input, input that most often proves to be correct, and input that is in complete sentences and excludes AOL acronyms.
The Asian market move sounds promising. NC is pretty ecclectic and might find a lot of newcomers there.
This is just an opinion but I'm also thinking that the U.S. is generally a hectic and busy place, and that the "game market" is swaying towards console based stuff. A lot of people I've tried to get into NC are like "man I don't have time for that sort of thing." This may go for Canada too, maybe parts of Europe. There's a reason why companies like Bioware are abandoning huge PC successes like Neverwinter Nights in favor of XBox and PS2 games. Leisure time is getting shorter. The average person's entertainment period is much more brief than what something like NC affords. NC is a pretty massive time commitment.
As I figured it out, the move to Asia was more of 10Tacles idea than KKs idea. And it wouldn't even be a suprise, they ARE trying to make things more efficient than CDV ever did.
Carinth, me and my cousin when we started to play tought that the Damageboost was for boosting your damage too, I said "damn these rats keep making bigger damage these days, maybe you should damageboost me more" and damn we had fun for a long time when we found out that it works the other way around :D
Everything in this game works different than in other mmorpgs so it's bit of a downside even to a veteran mmorpg player, he has to learn the whole system again, in opposite of just hopping in to a game that has the "normal" mmorpg system and just learning some new stuff, so it doubles the pressure, changing from one mmorpg that has the tried and true gameplay system to one with completely different system AND leaving your friends in the other mmorpg. And for new players, well, let's just say that often new players look up for mmorpgs that are popular and have alot of players which means that there are alot of people to make new friends, the system must be working good since there are alot of people and the developers have good cash flow to keep the game up and running.
Usually when someone asks me for a good mmorpg, I'd like to say Neocron, but I usually take them to some other mmorpg like DAoC or if they are fps players, to Planetside.
nobody2004
25-11-04, 10:36
So it's like the french server, oui?
There USED TO be a french server.
(15 people on it on average. 50 on peak.)
No marketing, not to mention other recuring problems.
Neebies are not staying.
Oldies are bored, waiting for a new game to come out.
Just too bad KK managed to screw up it's community SO bad.
Was a very nice game ...
Click2Pay drove me away. Waiting for my NC1 subs to end in December.
Unfinished-ness of NC2 isn't helping either, tho.
Well, Listen to my current game experience:
I am a vet, coming back after a 7days trip.
I sustain 2 accounts
I wanted to make a special forces CPU for my rifle pe, but i said lets build one not buy, so I gathered all pieces together logging chars in and out as needed(first problem: why not making a general use cupboard that can be accessed by more than one chars? Not everyone wants to be claned, as not everyone wants to be unLEd)
and after some time i had everything i needed to build except those CA licenses.
So i starting asking on trade.
This is happening since this morning, but because there are only 10% on average, no one answered on trade.
So the #1 problem i can see is, THAT THE GAME WAS DESIGNED AND BASED HAVING A LOT LARGER PLAYER BASE. This is not true however so, we have a problem
Bugs Gunny
25-11-04, 13:01
TT FSM is bugged right now and you can get CA fcl from him. just ask a TT runner with 90fsm to do it.
Well, Listen to my current game experience:
I am a vet, coming back after a 7days trip.
I sustain 2 accounts
I wanted to make a special forces CPU for my rifle pe, but i said lets build one not buy, so I gathered all pieces together logging chars in and out as needed(first problem: why not making a general use cupboard that can be accessed by more than one chars? Not everyone wants to be claned, as not everyone wants to be unLEd)
and after some time i had everything i needed to build except those CA licenses.
So i starting asking on trade.
This is happening since this morning, but because there are only 10% on average, no one answered on trade.
So the #1 problem i can see is, THAT THE GAME WAS DESIGNED AND BASED HAVING A LOT LARGER PLAYER BASE. This is not true however so, we have a problem
Nah, the new system was designed assumnig we'd have player shops.
Athon Solo
I could write a very long post here about all the things which either need to be changed or added to make Neocron more newbie friendly. Anyway, here is a small, and by far incomplete, list:
Redo the tutorial and offer it before the chars are created. Professions are misleading, because most professions lead to ineffective characters (thanks to the specialization). Add info about weapon types (dex, str, psi based), about the tradeskills (and show how they work, has been done partially), communication (what are the channels good for), the info window (all these %-numbers), vehicles etc.pp. Yes, this is a lot of work, but it pays back tenfold.
Get rid of serious gfx bugs, crashes and all the other bugs which actually disrupt your game experience. Nothing will keep a player when (s)he crashes and/or gets synchs (too) often nor players like to see mobs with half their legs not visible, twisted characters, an out of synch head, etc.
The splitup into two cities, the non-safezone city centers (CC and P1), the splitup of the safezones into faction HQs and TH and the relatively low number of players make it a hard time to find the tradeskillers you need. Normally newbies don't even have any of the custom chats enabled, so all chat they get is local/direct, excluding them from a big part of the community. Game designers should work towards creating common trading places (trading doesn't work good when you have to care about your safety, though). That includes not excluding new runners from these (I haven't seen any of the faction HQs become a widely known trading place, of all these I have seen so far FA HQ seems to come close, TT HQ maybe, too). You could argue with TH now, but newbies don't know about it nor are they able to reach it, I mean even older players have trouble reaching certain places with their new characters ...
Older players ignoring newbies, although I can partially understand it (e.g. someone is PKing in a city sector, you stumble over a newbie and you cannot really help because you have to take care about your own safety). This problem is partly caused by the players themselfs and partly caused by KKs game design.
I am an old NC1 player who just started a trial account last night to see about coming back. I have to say I think the biggest problem from my perspective was the lack of people willing to give me the time of day. I think everyone needs to realise that if you/we don't keep the new players in the game the game will die (the current server pops are not encouraging). When you are playing, nothing you are doing (bar an immediate life or death struggle) can really be more important than that noob in plaza asking for help. Because if you don't help him out you gotta wonder how much longer you're gonna be playing for...
Teh clans are not recruiting plain and simple the current vets can only blame them selfs we are not taking these new players in like we should. I don't and never since NC2 started see active clans spamming faction chat for new recruits and its strange cos this is the best way to get more members. Trust me as a player that has played a while now and tryed this game out in NC1 late beta standing in DOY city center alone with no one around would make me quit if I was new.
The MC5 area is crap the kit they need is miles away FFS TG canyon umm fuck really I can see a noob running there to buy a STORE bought weapon :wtf: so wheres the higher tl cannons ah outzone 1 run off now and buy one its shit quality !! but can be made better Noob: huh where is outzone ? . Then they get killed trying to get there ..... :rolleyes:
If its a total fuck about for me its gonna be hell for them
This game used to have one of the most supportive communities in any game I've played. Then KK wiped out all the means for players to support other players and with it the desire to do so.
It's one thing to spend weeks or months bored to tears trying to recover enough of what you need to play your own characters it's another to do ten times that work setting up the kind of newbie support network we had in NC1.
This was said many times before the wipe.
As an update to my trial experience I've had 2 resync bugs tonight both times I haven't been able to relog without completely restarting the client because of the proxy error problem. Now Neocron hangs when I try to log into the server, despite restarting my pc. Then theres the numerous other bugs I keep getting, the fact that I still recognise some of these bugs from 2 years ago is scary.
This game used to have one of the most supportive communities in any game I've played. Then KK wiped out all the means for players to support other players and with it the desire to do so.
It's one thing to spend weeks or months bored to tears trying to recover enough of what you need to play your own characters it's another to do ten times that work setting up the kind of newbie support network we had in NC1.
This was said many times before the wipe.
Nail on the head as usual. :cool:
Bleh, what the game need is content.
The item wipe didn't magicly convert us from newbie friendly to newbie hostile : p What the hell does that have to do with it anyway? Having stashes of items to hand out to new players is not the same as helping them. All we should have to do is tell them how to do it themselves.
KK screwed with equipment distribution so that the system does not work. Vets are as clueless as newbies as to how you're supposed to get stuff now. For what we do know how to get, it takes twice as many steps as before. If it's so much trouble for vets to get even basic stuff then there's little hope we'll help new players get it aswell.
I agree we used to have a really supportive and helpful community, but it wasn't because people had apartments full of equipment to hand out. It was because there were active vets who knew pretty much everything about the game and offered their time to help answer questions from new players. This was most evident in irc, #cronhelp was mostly staffed by normal customers. We would answer most questions or send them off to a gm if we couldn't. I tried doing this in NC2 and I realized that my explanation for how they're going to go about getting stuff is enough to make someone quit. You hafta do X and then Y, but good luck trying to find Y cause you need Z too, etc. Almost every single time I explained the new faction equipment distribution it was with the disclaimer "The system is broken and waiting for Player Shops before it'll work better" and "Yes I know it sucks"
The wipe had everything to do with it - not just directly by removing items but by making it almost impossible to help people even if you want to.
After spending weeks of tedium and frustration almost restoring one of your own characters to where they were three months ago for absolutely no good reason no-one wants anything to do that crap ever again.
Advising newbies that they need to roll 3 more characters in different factions and level them half way to cap just so they can get some low level items on their current character is just going make them uninstall.
The departure of so many long-time players is also connected to this. People had lived with all the same silly bugs for >2 years but to finally get into NC2 and find you couldn't even get hold of essential items was more than most could take.
KK wiped out a lot of good-will along with all those items.
No way on earth will I spend my slow-times making up a stock of lowbie weapons or PPUing in the aggies now. Even if I did there's no point as without constant assistance the newbies will just hit yet another idiotic time-sink and get stalled again.
Again, it wasn't the wipe but the warped nc2 system. If Nc2 wasn't so screwed up then it wouldn't be a problem to obtain noob items. Jernau, would it really have been better if we kept our stuff and we became the only distribution method in nc2? Would it really be better when the only way to get items in nc2 is ask a vet?
If kk hadn't broken the equipment distribution system there wouldn't have been any problem with the wipe.
Well I can't see how to seperate the two as the only half decent excuse for the wipe was to give the new system a clean start.
would it really have been better if we kept our stuff and we became the only distribution method in nc2? Would it really be better when the only way to get items in nc2 is ask a vet? Yes it would have been better. I have no doubt at all about that. Aside from the point that player-run economies are a good thing IMO and IME there's the fact that it was working just fine in NC1.
If kk hadn't broken the equipment distribution system there wouldn't have been any problem with the wipe.If there were no new item distribution system there would have been no reason to have the wipe in the first place.
I cant speculate but I can say why I left
reason 1 click2play the most unprofessional dolts I have ever done buisiness with, they tried to double bill me I had to use the neocron support to get them to stop and then when I went to cancel over the phone they told me I had to do it thru email, they said that was the only way to insure my identity?
but yet when I subscribed they called my house and when my roomate tried to subscribe they wouldnt let him use the same number as mine they told him the phone number was used for confirming the identity? well which is it?
not only cant they keep their billing straight they cant keep how they verrify somones identity on the level eather.
I just dont feel my bank information is going to be safe with a company that is in such chaos. sorry I hope I am not beating this into the ground here but it sucked :(
reason 2 it felt like more work then play I had to watch my back from my allies and my enemies between watching my back and grinding there wasnt a lot of room to really breathe, dont know if I am explaining it well but it was just a chore to get a poke and not be killed by people that were supposedly allies.
reason 3 the bugs, now I wasnt expecting perfection but it feels like playing a beta except it costs money.
I dont write this to bash the game or the poeple who made it or even the people who like it the way it is, this is just my point of view nothing more.
except for click2play they stink! :P
QuantumDelta
27-11-04, 16:42
God Laser, if it weren't for the law, I wish I could set your view into perspective.
I appreciate what you're saying, but bugger me there's worse things out there that you can't avoid and can't shy away from.
Agencies that would be fucked if it were left to it's managers and computer system, that's on a daily basis saved by it's Admin Officers and Admin Assistants one that isn't fair on it's clients, and that's clients don't have a choice whether they want to be it's client or not.
Eugh, I need to quit soon.
God Laser, if it weren't for the law, I wish I could set your view into perspective.
I appreciate what you're saying, but bugger me there's worse things out there that you can't avoid and can't shy away from.
Agencies that would be fucked if it were left to it's managers and computer system, that's on a daily basis saved by it's Admin Officers and Admin Assistants one that isn't fair on it's clients, and that's clients don't have a choice whether they want to be it's client or not.
Eugh, I need to quit soon.
erm... you OK there QD? That didn't exactly seem on track.
Maloch Octavia
27-11-04, 20:19
What item wipe? Items were wiped? What?!
Jesterthegreat
27-11-04, 20:48
What item wipe? Items were wiped? What?!
only qb, imp window and armour window xfered to nc2...
What item wipe? Items were wiped? What?!
Yes, we had to leave 95% of our stuff behind to "upgrade" to NC2.
Also, all epic items weren't allowed to transfer either.
What item wipe? Items were wiped? What?!
Ok, who's got a valium dispenser? I've used up mine :p
I think the item distribution system itself is fine... BUT we need player shops to be in place for it all to be balanced.
Player shops would solve a lot of griefs. I mean I would put up everything in my own database for sale immediately and so would others as well. As for noob guns, they are very easy to make but we're often lazy. However, if player shops are in I would actually enjoy making a few good ones and putting them up for sale.
As it is now the general consensus is "bah, why bother".
Ok, who's got a valium dispenser? I've used up mine :p
*passes a bottle of Ativan to Phunge* keep 'em, I've got more.. :D
Yes, we had to leave 95% of our stuff behind to "upgrade" to NC2.
Also, all epic items weren't allowed to transfer either.Don't forget all the items that just got wiped completely.
/edit @phunge - ah, optimism, I think I remember how that feels... no wait that's indigestion.
/edit @phunge - ah, optimism
I managed to find some left over one :p
And I hear plums are good btw...
Maloch Octavia
29-11-04, 19:13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maloch Octavia
What item wipe? Items were wiped? What?!
Yes, we had to leave 95% of our stuff behind to "upgrade" to NC2.
Also, all epic items weren't allowed to transfer either.
WHAT!?
What!?! WHAT?!?!? You've got to be fucking kidding me...
Will I still have my nine apartments, full of high-end Drones, all the rares I've ever collected, and miscellanous assortments of goodies, can't come with me when I upgrade to Nc2?
I lose my Implants?? All those rare imps I spent months trying to get, selling my body for?? AAHHH GOD!!
WHAT!?
What!?! WHAT?!?!? You've got to be fucking kidding me...
Will I still have my nine apartments, full of high-end Drones, Nope - gone.
all the rares I've ever collected,gone
miscellanous assortments of goodiesgone
my Implants??gone
All those rare imps I spent months trying to getall gone.
Also - you are broke, you have no GRs, your sympathies are reset and KK would like some more money please.
Welcome back :D.
Maloch Octavia
29-11-04, 19:21
Ahahh.... Hha.....
Someone tell me he is joking please.
Please...
All you have is what was in you Quickbelt and the imps in your head and your armor...
He's joking.
No he's not. :wtf:
The only thing the guy is going to have is what was in his quickbelt, (epic weapons were banned for transfer) any implants implanted (no epic chips or kami chips) and any armor he was wearing on September 29th.
That's the day the final snapshot was taken for character transfer. (Saturn server) the other servers may have been the 28th.
No he's not. :wtf:
The only thing the guy is going to have is what was in his quickbelt, (epic weapons were banned for transfer) any implants implanted (no epic chips or kami chips) and any armor he was wearing on September 29th.
That's the day the final snapshot was taken for character transfer. (Saturn server) the other servers may have been the 28th.
Don't forget those oh-so-useful credits - 2k/skill rank. Enough to buy back at least one of the items he needs....maybe.
No he's not. :wtf:
The only thing the guy is going to have is what was in his quickbelt, (epic weapons were banned for transfer) any implants implanted (no epic chips or kami chips) and any armor he was wearing on September 29th.
That's the day the final snapshot was taken for character transfer. (Saturn server) the other servers may have been the 28th.
What are you talking about?
He was joking.
Jesterthegreat
29-11-04, 20:25
What are you talking about?
He was joking.
aha a ploy to actuallyget people to come back...
yes...
he is joking...
What are you talking about?
He was joking.
Maybe you're misunderstanding, BeaNo, but everything said so far is accurate. We lost most all of our stuff moving from nc1 to nc2. The only thing we could take with us was our character, worn armor, implanted imps, and 10 items in quickbelt. Even then there were restrictions like no keys, no epics, no blueprints, and some rares that were discontinued aswell.
Maloch, be thankful you weren't one of the many who spent the month before nc2 setting up your char to be transfered only to have it erased by Saturn dying and being reset ; ) Or what MJS called an "Oh Shit!" moment.
Between that and then all the problems with downloading the client, canceling your old nc account, registering with click2pay, and transfering characters over.. nc2 had a pretty ugly release. Not as bad as some other infamous mmorpgs, but still pretty bad.
I understood fully, I just been taking the piss.
If you can't tell I'm bored. Still happy I got a few people to bite. :D
My boyfriend looked over my shoulder when playing and got a vague clue of the forum here as well. He keeps saying he wouldn't be content with the information policy as it is. He's appalled by NC2 still needing old graphic card drivers.
That's how you don't leave a good impression on possible customers. I've been playing for more than a year now, it's not that I bad-mouth this game.
a 10 days evaluation period is not enough, I agree on that. Hopping from account to account does not make sense if you want to have a decent char to pvp with - so that would not be a criterion.
also the fact that *experienced players* tell em to remove their LE then they get killed a lot of times by high lvl players without having a chance to fight back
would make most peops leave
Maloch Octavia
30-11-04, 21:09
Maybe you're misunderstanding, BeaNo, but everything said so far is accurate. We lost most all of our stuff moving from nc1 to nc2. The only thing we could take with us was our character, worn armor, implanted imps, and 10 items in quickbelt. Even then there were restrictions like no keys, no epics, no blueprints, and some rares that were discontinued aswell.
I was under the strong and complete understanding that we would be able to transfer the majority of items over with us. Having said that, I stopped playing somewhat before the Beta release, and I haven't been online at these Forums since a few days ago, as I'm on leave.
Now that I find this out, there is no way I am returning. Not because I've lost everything as such, but mainly because a years worth for my spy characters, has been for nothing. I don't mind spending time on an enjoyable pursuit, but I do want to see something at the end of the tunnel for my long slog.
Having everything removed, is not something I want to see.
I'll return to the game once all the current problems have been resolved, because anything else now, would probably break me as a man.
:)
Hey Carinth! Good to see you're still around.
Well there's another way to look at it, what you gained in those years working on your character was the ability to take an existing character with a set of equipment already intact into Neocron2. That's something only existing players can do. I'm happy to keep what I could, instead of starting from scratch.
I really never understood how you can see the past years work as a waste now. You did the work you got the rewards, you enjoyed yourself for the past year. That in itself makes it worthwhile. If you spent the last year doing nothing but stockpile stuff and never used any of it, then I could see how you'd have a grudge. I certainly miss my stashes of equipment, but I put them to good use. I helped equip so many people, it was worth it for me. Just because I nolonger have all of that stuff doesn't negate the past.
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