View Full Version : Is Neocron dystopian?
QuantumDelta
20-11-04, 04:51
Neocron?
Or "Neocron the game." :p
Actually.
Dystopian for both answers >.>
And Uhh, depends on your characters point of view i'd expect..
Jesterthegreat
20-11-04, 05:04
you would have trouble getting further from utopia than a city thats raided daily by the enemy, surrounded with radiation, with an oppressive dictator while being at war with another equally large nation :D
dystopia
n 1: state in which the condition of life is extremely bad as from deprivation or oppression or terror [ant: utopia]
2: a work of fiction describing an imaginary place where life is extremely bad because of deprivation or oppression or terror
Sounds about right to me. If you don't think so then perhaps my CopBot boot on the side of your face will convince you. Reza is watching...
N
I wanna know who voted 'utopian'. Cheeky.
Not everything in NC is bad though - civilisation is recovering from a nuclear war and there is hope for a better world even if people are fighting over who will control it.
In literary terms dystopia's are almost always systems in which a utopian vision has gone awry or in which a utopian elite oppress a dystopian proletariat.
You could say Reza was the former but I'd say he's no worse than any other politician and certainly a huge improvement on the people he overthrew. People can easily leave his area of control which is not usually the case in a dystopia.
Neocron is largely classless. They are rich and poor but there is no starvation as no-one actually needs to eat. Anyone can become wealthy (change class, if you view class as a purely fiscal matter) which again is inconsistent with dystopia.
The strongest theme in dystopian/utopian literature is freedom - utopias providing complete freedom (either through a form of anarchy or communism) and dystopias providing no freedom (usually through military rule though sometimes social/medical control). We have a lot of freedom in NC to choose our jobs, our accomodations, our names, our appearance, where we go, what we do there, etc. Some of that is necessitated by game mechanics but much of it is in the story too.
The only strongly dystopian theme is the military oversight of NC city itself but in context of the number of threats to it's safety that's not unusual. Few Utopias are without defences though it's usually a condition of the utiopian ideal that all threats are external.
Trust jernau to get all philosophical.. :/
Trust jernau to get all philosophical.. :/:p
I'm bored - my gaming PC is rebuilding a monged HDD and my toasted sandwich is still toasting.
'monged' is the best slang to come out of the UK ever. Speaking as an American... :D
THE_TICK!!!!
20-11-04, 17:44
Sounds about right to me. If you don't think so then perhaps my CopBot boot on the side of your face will convince you. Reza is watching...
N gotta love that guy :) go niddy go
THE_TICK!!!!
20-11-04, 17:51
:p
I'm bored - my gaming PC is rebuilding a monged HDD and my toasted sandwich is still toasting.
lol jernau...i gotta love ya man..course you confuse my simplistic military mind :)
Glok, you have entirely too much time on your hands....
Glok, you have entirely too much time on your hands....
I wonder what he'd have on his hands if he turned his time into a useful activity :lol:
Jesterthegreat
20-11-04, 20:33
Sounds about right to me. If you don't think so then perhaps my CopBot boot on the side of your face will convince you. Reza is watching...
N
you wouldnt make a good spokesperson for the NCPD... Reeza lies to the population, why cant you? :p
greendonkeyuk
20-11-04, 20:41
I wonder what he'd have on his hands if he turned his time into a useful activity :lol:
his toasted sandwich?
hehe.
yeah i like jernaus interpretation tbh. i wouldnt say nc is a dystopian (sp?) society based on my understanding of them, we are allowed to make choices, up to a point, i would personally like to hear more about the doy philosophy though, i mean to me it seems to be a bombed-out hole where the scum of neocron now hide.... but then thats my opinion, you guys on the other side might see it as free minds in a free society and all that but hey, my side of the fence is warm and cosy. :D
Jesterthegreat
20-11-04, 20:44
his toasted sandwich?
hehe.
yeah i like jernaus interpretation tbh. i wouldnt say nc is a dystopian (sp?) society based on my understanding of them, we are allowed to make choices, up to a point, i would personally like to hear more about the doy philosophy though, i mean to me it seems to be a bombed-out hole where the scum of neocron now hide.... but then thats my opinion, you guys on the other side might see it as free minds in a free society and all that but hey, my side of the fence is warm and cosy. :D
heres a dome perspective...
i cant believe you think your free to make choices! Rezza has you on a hella short leech. we will liberate NC and free you from your dictatorship.
a slave who can't see his chains isn't any less of a slave
'monged' is the best slang to come out of the UK ever. Speaking as an American... :D
I disagree.
Speaking as a brit - I belive Munter is the best slang ever.
So many uses...
You munter!
Let's get Muntered!
Okay... Well two.
Anyway! To the question!
To an extent - I believe yes - But it would depend on whose eyes, and what city...
To TG - for example - the city of neocron (not the world - you were a bit vague...) Yeah... Mr Reza etc...
But Jernau kind of explained the living daylights out of it. So I'm tending to agree with him. :lol:
You cling on the meaning of the words not to philosophy behind the term.
I'd say Utopia for the creator, the dicator that has more power in his hands than any other in the current (tho small) world.
Dystopia for the people who are forcefed the reza lies and forced to either choke on opression and overly imperialistic capitalism (I know imperialism is capitalism and the other way around but we can't just press enough the evil in there now can we) of the ruling class or take a boot to the radioactive wasteland where a dragonfly size of horse will eat you and your 4 head family.
I vote just yes.
You cling on the meaning of the words not to philosophy behind the term.
I'd say Utopia for the creator, the dicator that has more power in his hands than any other in the current (tho small) world.
Dystopia for the people who are forcefed the reza lies and forced to either choke on opression and overly imperialistic capitalism (I know imperialism is capitalism and the other way around but we can't just press enough the evil in there now can we) of the ruling class or take a boot to the radioactive wasteland where a dragonfly size of horse will eat you and your 4 head family.
All real societies and the vast majority of fictional ones have a hierarchy and a class system even if it's not as blatant as a feudal model. That doesn't mean they are all dystopian.
The people of NC itself (I believe that's the main system people are referring to here) can leave at any time to live in a number of alternative locations and political systems - TH, MB, DoY or the wastes. Even within NC they have substantial freedom, far more freedom in fact than most people have IRL - even murder isn't a crime in NC.
Imperialism != capitalism.
For the record:
UKs best slang - 'mint'
For the record:
UKs best slang - 'mint'
You sir - are a pole smoker. :p
hmm tough question, from a rational perspective you might say nations are moving forward with a end result which may justify means [ edited ].
[ edited ]
erm...
I'd remove the RL stuff unless you want to get the thread closed especially the examples you used.
Jernau when you are right you are right.
But consider the fact that most of the "normal" people living in the world of neocron have the opportunity to (I quote) "can leave at any time to live in a number of alternative locations and political systems - TH, MB, DoY or the wastes."
One can only think of the motives to make such a decision. Leave from dicatorship of neocron to live in absolute poorness of the wastelands, a what seems to be utopia TH, a place only suited for one profession MB or the pile of rubble that is the current state of DoY next to the "criminal element" you distincted in your "earlier life" in neocron. Now the transition from wastes to neocron seeme bit more "hot" if you will.
Now I must say, I don't think those are much of options. People usually choose the option that is going to lift the quality of his/her life. I have a good RL example of this but I'm not going to make it because it will make several people angry ;)
And BTW Imperialism = not allways capitalism, let me enlighten you, a country is imperialistic WHEN it has control over foreign entities such as empires or states through direct control over territory or indirect methods of political or economical control. As an example I will use UK that was an imperium with control over Hong Kong (which was given back to china in 1997), such countries like china and india have been accused to be imperialistic over their control of territory by political or religious means (note that they are not accused by me it was a statement so simmer down now). Imperialism is the final pahse of capitalism if we take Lenins word for it but it is not so allways. In my quote it was ment to visualise the consentration of wealth on a small number of people in the city of neocron.
wrt Emigration - people do that for all sorts of reasons and not always up the social/civil ladder. Remember also that people from all the other NC regimes also move to NC.
You can be imperialistic without being capitalistic (eg China both ancient and modern) and likewise capitalistic without being inperialistic (eg modern Switzerland or Japan). There are a few modern examples of nations that are both but that means nothing more than a correlation of land mass to colours on flags.
Please leave real life politics out of this discussion.
V
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