LE Idea

[Super Mario]

in another thread i have seen today there was a mention of faction killing then a genral discussion about LE's it made me think.. (strange as that may seem to some people) How about making LE's impable again for all lvl's (so that LE'd players can do epics and still carry on with there normal lives (and also so that some people who want a break from constant ganking can do so and still go rare hunting ect. But the downside would be that with the LE in you cant gain ANY SL or FS what so ever (as an le'd runner you shouldnt need these except for maybe FSM's but you can always trade with another player or (godforbid) use an alt :p ). This way the LE cant be exploited by pkers wanting to get SL and FS up and maybe it may (if only a little) help things out for le'd runners. (Main problem is still the working of the SL system) . Please tell me what you think and give the good + bad point you may find with this :cool: Rate it if you like it and also vote ^^

Super M

(btw i know i SUPER SUCK and spelling and punctuation pls be gental)

[Darkana]

That would be another nail in the coffin for LE players. Not to say that you can loose SL and faction sympathies as a LE player as well, that you maybe need to change your faction because of the epic requirement for WoC, or that you maybe want to use the FSM as a LE player and not be forced to use a non-LE player just because the LE hinders you to get more SL and faction sympathy. Add to this bugs like the LE droners have (loosing SL and symps although they never killed anyone), and your idea shows it's most possible evil face for all those.

The only could-be-working idea for preventing red SL people putting the LE back in is a SL requirement for the LE for putting it in. The latter part prevents a simple requirement handling, the LE has to work regardless of the SL + faction sympathies.

[switchback]

before, whenyou could poke an LE in whenever you wanted, there was toomuch exploiting during OP fights. I have seen it too manytimes and im sure you have also seen it mario during a fight when an LE rhino parks on your dead ppus body. nothing you cando about it

[Asul]

Good Idea on one hand, on the other hand I thinkits then better to make the savezones as in NC1 was before give LEs to everyone. I Thought LEs are created to prevent noobs from pkers, a noob dont need to do epics, (…). When a noob have enouth Skill, he should put it out. I dont think LEs where suposed to be used like all use them today. Maybe Im wrong....

[Bugs Gunny]

I realy like the reimplantable le at positive soullight.

The way things are now i'm sure a lot of people want to reimplant the le.

[Xylaz]

I realy like the reimplantable le at positive soullight.

The way things are now i'm sure a lot of people want to reimplant the le.

actually, i dont like LE at all - but yeah, reimplantable LE at positive SL wouldnt bother me too much :D

[Super Mario]

ahh switch you have a point there. It's just a pity people cant op war with honor rather then tring to use every (exploit) they can think of. Maybe then Le's wouldnt funtion in warzones (storyline for this could be interference of the chip by the op?) that would stop that potintial exploit, but as was said i suppose the other idea of none impable with red SL sounds like a plan i mean all i am looking for here is ppl's ideas for one of the biggest issues since i can remember i may not have been here since beta 3 or 4 but i'd like to consider myself with some knowlage about the probs we have in nc and try to find a way that suits the majority at least (cause you can never please everyone)so come on guys lets combine efforts and get the best soluition possible.

[Yelly]

Make it like LE inactive in warzones and you can do epic kill in warzones
All solved ;)

[Darkana]

[Turned out to be longer than intented, but oh well, you may skip most of it and read the the summary]


before, whenyou could poke an LE in whenever you wanted, there was toomuch exploiting during OP fights. I have seen it too manytimes and im sure you have also seen it mario during a fight when an LE rhino parks on your dead ppus body. nothing you cando about it

Requirements for a Rhino tank: 30 INT and 62 VHC. How fast can you level a newbie to reach these requirements for the sake of pissing off everyone at an OP fight? Sure, it takes longer than putting LE back in. But no hindrance for anyone who really wants to do it. Same for OP war spies and so on. I hate it, though, when the real LE players have to suffer for this, because these people just use every possibility to play this game as low as possible.

When you put up a chain of cause and effect, the starting point will always be the faction and SL system. There has been a good deal of research about humans and how they will act in systems like MMORPGs, infact with some common sense you can find that out yourself. I've been playing internet based multiplayer games for almost a decade now, and I learned one important thing: Unless you want to create a virtual police state environment you need game mechanics to prevent players from behaving bad. When the effort to put up a viable game mechanics is too high or impractical, you either have to accept the problem or "throw" human resources at it to keep the players in line.

Now imagine a game where you have no punishments whatsover for killing another player. What would happen? Who would play the game, and, more important for the company running the game, how many would play it?

In Neocron you have more or less a free kill system. The SL and the faction sympathies try to reduce the freely killable runners to a certain extent (the "red" ones), but it doesn't really help much if you don't bother about it. Warzones even disable the SL and faction system, making them a place for free killing. The only way to opt out of the killing in such a system is a PvP switch like the LE in Neocron.

Such a PvP switch alone is not a problem. The problems are a result of the combination of a number of game mechanic rules. Lets put up two examples:

In most of the caves you run in, kill every mob you encounter unless everything is dead. Either to make these dungeons not too hard or to prevent camping of boss mobs, the mobs in the cave don't respawn until every player (be it alive or dead) has left the cave. Exactly this rule, together with the PvP switch allows players to harass others (and it works in both ways which is unfortunately not covered by the public exploit list, not to talk about dead players who are not mentioned at all).
Whenever a vehicle is only filled with LE runners, this vehicle can't be damaged at all. Together with the way the targetting system works you have a hard time (if not even being impossible) to aim at people lying dead under cars. Now you could destroy the vehicle, but that doesn't work with only LE players in it.


These are only two examples of a long list. And it's always the PvP switch "LE chip" mixed up with other rules, which make it possible to harass/annoy other players. You could change rules, but you cannot totally screw over the PvP switch. Not screwing it over means the basic principle, opting out of PvP, has to work all the time, regardless where the player is or what the player is doing. That also includes as less interference with the rest of the game as possible, like a working faction and SL system. LE players have been denied access to certain things already. Naturally you could piss them even more off, make this and that non-working, too. In the end you could make it disappear at level xx/30, or, like others even promote, remove it totally from game.

That leads us to the way KK thinks this game should work, and what should be allowed in terms of player killing and preventing it. They never have given any clear statement about their intentions in that field. All they have given to us is the faction and SL system together with the LE chip, and players use it to the full extend and beyond. In the same turn they never have made any statement if they really want to address only a small community of players or if they ever thought about addressing the game for an bigger audience (the bigger the audience the more "carebear" the rules about PvP have to be, or should I say the more restrictive you have to be about ganking others, because PvP with agreement from both sides is something different, e.g. duels, clan wars and so on).

As a result we can only make guesses about KKs real intentions, concluded from the way the things are working. This includes the allowance of LE players, even at high levels. They can do certain epics and even do the WoC stuff. This line of thought doesn't match the denial of a non-working faction+SL system for LE, though.

To summarize it:

Neocron has a "guided" free PvP system with the possibility to opt out of PvP totally (= having LE chip implanted). In combination with certain other game rules you can misuse the LE.
Players will sooner or later use the game mechanics to the full extend, regardless if this pisses off other players or not. Unfortunately enough, most of them are old enough to know how to behave (infact they know it all too well). All I can say to this is human psychology, the twisted ways of power and the lack of will.
To prevent players doing certain bad things you have to put up rules. This removes freedom from gameplay. Removing freedom from gameplay will make players leave the game. As a MMORPG company you can screw over a number of players as long as the gain from it (e.g. by getting new players or making a big majority of the players happy) is greater than the loss. But normally this is a very difficult equation, and hard to calculate.

The idea of preventing the change of SL and sympathies when you have your LE in is for sure a removal of freedom for LE players (and I'm talking about the true LE players, not those who just want to misuse it). It also makes the PvP switch more than a PvP switch, thus adding more complexity to it (which you have to take care of when changing/adding other rules, not to talk about how you will end up with existing bugs).

[StryfeX]

I think your idea may work, but I'd really rather see something like a 50 SL requirement stuck on it to re-imp it. That would stop most of the asshats from exploiting with it.

--Stryfe

[IceStorm]

But the downside would be that with the LE in you cant gain ANY SL or FSNot acceptable. I only play with my LE. I've raised three or four character's FS to over 90 for FSM usage.

Solve the problem, don't attack that which doesn't cause the problem. LE "exploits" like those that are described in this thread aren't "exploits" until KK says they are. If you have a problem with LE player behavior, report it to KK.

Stop trying to modify the PvP switch.

[zii]

Since the LE is prob., here to stay, just deactivate it in the wastelands except around Neocron citie's areas.