View Full Version : Aren't The Wastelands Supposed To Be "Lawless"
HopesDespair
17-11-04, 23:34
The storyline alwasy went that the wastelands were lawless. There are no copbots out there. So there should be no law, here's is what I am getting at:
A Law Enforcer enforces the law so that no one can attack you and you can't attack anyone. But once you leave the city technicly there is no more law unless you in the immediate sector right outside.
That being the case, one of a few things should be done, in my opinion:
1. Stop LEs from leaving the cities and / or their immediate vacinities
2. Disable LEs when they are not in the cities and / or their immediate vacinities
3. Disable LEs in Warzones
Now many of you may or may not agree with this. However, here is what I feel, the law enforcer is a good thing for low levels, but then you get level 73/65 players or players around that rank that are well enough to fight without an LE, but choose not to, and the only gimp they are given is that they lose one implant spot, which is nothing for a near capped or capped character.
Now they can hunt without danger, level and make money without danger, stand in caves and stop respawning (which although is a game offense still is annoying for the time being that we lose out on leveling), gimp the EXP from cave groups etc.
If the above 3 options are not doable then perhaps both or one of these:
1. Take away 50% of the money they make while leveling (after xx level)
2. Take away 20% of their EXP while leveling (after xx level)
Or if that seems harsh and the first 3 are still not acceptable then at the very least do one of these:
1. Do not let enemies with LEs hunt in a Pro / Anti City zone. (For Example: Do not let a Pro City runner with an LE level at enemy territory, don't let their weapons be drawn)
2. Make the LE fall out (after xx level)
I know many of you use LEs in such a way, and will complain that this is not fair, which it may not be. Please keep in mind these are just my opinions, do not make relies personel or insulting. Stating your opinion is fine, but do not let things go beyond that.
Sincerely,
Nick Wrasse
Now many of you may or may not agree with this. However, here is what I feel, the law enforcer is a good thing for low levels, but then you get level 73/65 players or players around that rank that are well enough to fight without an LE, but choose not to, and the only gimp they are given is that they lose one implant spot, which is nothing for a near capped or capped character.Some people simply dont want to pvp. So let em choose to stay out of it. Where the problem with that?
HopesDespair
17-11-04, 23:38
Some people simply dont want to pvp. So let em choose to stay out of it. Where the problem with that?
There isn't but they don't help fight for the outposts where the level, so they shouldn't be able to level there in my opinion.
(eXo) Opaleye
17-11-04, 23:42
I like the idea of making the LE disabled in warzones. Actually now that I thought about it a bit I LOVE IT.
There isn't but they don't help fight for the outposts where the level, so they shouldn't be able to level there in my opinion.
Therefore its up to the clan that owns it to be assholes and close the GR off to anyone not clanned.
I swear there must be a idea loop that takes like 6 months to cycle around back to the begining.
anyway,
1. Take away 50% of the money they make while leveling (after xx level)
2. Take away 20% of their EXP while leveling (after xx level)
Big hot steaming pile of no to that, there used to be a penelty like that, I feel it should remain as it is now to encourage new people to keep it in while they get to grips with the game.
1. Stop LEs from leaving the cities and / or their immediate vacinities
2. Disable LEs when they are not in the cities and / or their immediate vacinities
3. Disable LEs in Warzones
Although you could give reasons for allowing this and on some levels I agree I just don't think it's right.
1. Do not let enemies with LEs hunt in a Pro / Anti City zone. (For Example: Do not let a Pro City runner with an LE level at enemy territory, don't let their weapons be drawn)
2. Make the LE fall out (after xx level)
1 = no, that would restrict the leveling places even more, all areas should be accessable to all.
2 = Again, I can agree on some levels but I don't think forcing people to get rid of it is a good idea.
The only change to the LE that is needed is to lift off the /30 restriction and just slap a 60SL requirement.
I swear there must be a idea loop that takes like 6 months to cycle around back to the begining.
You are right my freind.
I call it the Epenis loop.
A cycle by where people pimp the same ideas over and over in different flavours in order to make life easier for anyon but them. Basically it's like a wash rinse repeat cycle. Pimp idea - try next ones till you run out - pimp original idea.
The storyline alwasy went that the wastelands were lawless. There are no copbots out there. So there should be no law, here's is what I am getting at:
A Law Enforcer enforces the law so that no one can attack you and you can't attack anyone. But once you leave the city technicly there is no more law unless you in the immediate sector right outside.
That being the case, one of a few things should be done, in my opinion:
1. Stop LEs from leaving the cities and / or their immediate vacinities
No - that's like taking away 80/90% of the game.
2. Disable LEs when they are not in the cities and / or their immediate vacinities
Why should they be forced to PvP?
3. Disable LEs in Warzones
Same as above. There's a them developing here.
Now many of you may or may not agree with this. However, here is what I feel, the law enforcer is a good thing for low levels, but then you get level 73/65 players or players around that rank that are well enough to fight without an LE, but choose not to, and the only gimp they are given is that they lose one implant spot, which is nothing for a near capped or capped character.
THEY DON'T WANT TO PVP.
Now they can hunt without danger, level and make money without danger, stand in caves and stop respawning (which although is a game offense still is annoying for the time being that we lose out on leveling), gimp the EXP from cave groups etc.
It's ur choice to group them in a team - or to join thiers. as for spawnblocks - ingame support is your friend.
If the above 3 options are not doable then perhaps both or one of these:
1. Take away 50% of the money they make while leveling (after xx level)
Why punish ppl?
2. Take away 20% of their EXP while leveling (after xx level)
Why?
Or if that seems harsh and the first 3 are still not acceptable then at the very least do one of these:
1. Do not let enemies with LEs hunt in a Pro / Anti City zone. (For Example: Do not let a Pro City runner with an LE level at enemy territory, don't let their weapons be drawn)
You know what I'm going to say?
2. Make the LE fall out (after xx level)
Etc Etc
I know many of you use LEs in such a way, and will complain that this is not fair, which it may not be. Please keep in mind these are just my opinions, do not make relies personel or insulting. Stating your opinion is fine, but do not let things go beyond that.
Sincerely,
Nick Wrasse
sorry - but that's shite. - Opinion.
Why punish people who opt out of pvp? They have as much right to play the game as they want - they aren't doing harm - the only thing I can fathom is that they are causing you some irritance.
Can you elaborate a wee bit?
Bloody excellent idea IMO.
LE users should get punished for there total lack of respect for PKers! :P
Nah on a serious note its a great idea. Maybe LE users shouldn't EVER drop a belt (unless red) but can be killed in warzones.....
dam thats a great idea in fact...
If it were really true that the waste is lawless, then why do you lose/gain sl or sympathy? How would copbots ever know if you killed someone? Theoreticly it shouldn't be until they report it to the police (after having been ressurected at a gr).
Obsidian X
18-11-04, 02:02
Terrible idea. Full stop. Why does anyone else care if LE people are running about? This kind of ideology typically comes from asshats who arbitrarily gank everyone red (or even yellow/green as the case may be) that they come accross. Why is it that I should be gimped or have an LE forced out of my head at a certain level just so the gank-happy morons of this game can get some more dog tags. O_o
I've come accross players that have a massive problem with LE's, and take it as some kind of personal insult when they see an LE'd runner. I just don't get it. If they don't fancy being 15/20 cannon fodder to some capped PKer, why should they? Its not as if they have any realistic chance of defending themselves. Same applies with tradeskillers.
Personally I keep my LE in till I feel I'm ready to take it out, no sooner. I made the mistake of removing my PE's LE too early. Being my first char, his combat setup/resists really suck, and hes not combat worthy at all. Needless to say this character was constantly ganked, and I rarely play him now becuase I cba levelling/lomming/re-equipping.
Personally I think the LE is gimped enough as it is. I'm currently levelling an APU with an LE. Restrictions of the LE that affect me include:
1) Brainslot taken - obvious but needs to be stated. I'm at a level where I need the extra brainslot, as theres no other PSI implants other than brainchips.
2) Can't join clan - This char is waiting to join my clan, but can't due to the LE chip. Not a major issue but still a malus noneoftheless.
3) Can't do epics - The epics I want to do require PKs. I can't do them without removing my LE, when I don't want to do so yet.
4) No PPU support - The most overlooked, yet to me, most significant malus with the LE chip. APUs by definition are weak as hell, they can't sustain a lot of damage at all. As an APU at my level I can't realistically level at any high level spots without PPU support, due to the fact un-LE'd PPUs can't buff LE'd runners. There are LE'd PPUs out there, but they're rarer than Zargerus Belts. How often do you see them? Over rank xx/15 I mean? Theres no call for LE'd PPU's out there meaning if I wanted to level in caves/El Farid etc, I need to remove my LE yet again. O_o O_o
To paraphrase: If I want to PvP or not, thats my choice, and I'll be damned if I'm going to lose that to some gank-happy idiots who want to strip my freedom to walk about LEd. Though I am in favour of perhaps deactivating the LE in warzones only.
Neocron already has a low population, yes lets piss more players off :wtf:
Hmmm this idea sounds just as bad as killing allied runner because neocron has to be dangerous.
Get over it. you'll see more of them if the Gank Fest continues. not everybody like to be chainkilled.
Neocron already has a low population, yes lets piss more players off :wtf:
Sorry, HD, but I have to agree with the others: NO !
Maybe later I'll post my reasons for playing this game, but in the 15 months I have been in NC, I personally don't enjoy being PK'd because someone else is bored, RP'ing a psycho or whatever.
Obsidian X pretty much wraps it up. I totally agree.
Dear Nick Wrasse
That's one fucking stupid idea.
And what makes you hate LE-players so much that you want to completely get rid of them?
I would understand it when he says its fuckin lame to do a LE-Wall in OPfights (Warzone = LE OFF, good Idea), but hey, LEs lvling in the Wastes??! Let them lvl, I mean, its not that we have 10.000 Runner on the servers and the mobs getting rare ;)
I as a nub and put my LE off, and well, Today I let it in till I'm nearly capped, its not realy necessery to put it out as long as there are so many Pkers out there.
Let the LE-Runner lvl, they dont hurt u and u dont hurt them, all fine, letz play that fuckin buggy peace of shit all together, Peace :D (As long as i have the LE in :D )
Freaky Fryd
18-11-04, 12:40
Amen, Obsidian!
LE is a PvP switch, it's a basic principle of the game mechanics. It got a description to "fit" it into the world. Argueing the other way around renders these arguments void.
I say "No", even to disabling the LE in warzones (did I mention it's a PvP switch?).
In the end you have three choices:
Keep the system like it is. (There have been tons of threads discussing about all the facets of the current system.)
Remove the LE, but keep the rest of the system like it is. Players will leave, the influx of new players will decrease. What that means, it has been discussed as well.
Remove the LE. Replace the current faction+SL system with something working, non-broken, something which prevents stupid ganking, something which introduces clan wars, something which makes the game more fun, more complex (clan politics anyone, declaring wars, alliances, etc.pp.?).
The reasons for high level players to have the LE in have been listed like most of the other stuff here in various other threads. Use the search function of this forum system.
I could start to write now how many disadvantages LE players have in certain situations, but leave it, not to talk about the LE players always get treated as the "evil" ones. What about a non-LE player blocking an empty cave where a LE team wants to level? No further comment.
Darkana, LE PPU and tradeskiller, 73/64 (73/65 when I use one of my gloves, coincidence?)
If I had to vote I'd vote fot:
2. Disable LEs when they are not in the cities and / or their immediate vacinities,
although I'd add to this that the only city the LE should work in is Neocron and not the Dome.
Let them hide in their city.
Don't agree with the idea, especially about the wastelands, since most of the decent levelling spots for mid-range players to level at are out there. Put in some nice levelling spots inside DoY city and Neocron city (ie Mainsewer, Outzone) and perhaps it would make sense.
Leave the LE chip alone if people want to use it and not PvP they should be allowed too. Its just the same as people with out LE chips in are allowed to PVP and kill other players who don't have an LE in, I'm now sort of in favour of the LE being re-implantable over lvl 30. Look at the game you got epics where you need to take the LE chip out and must be at least lvl 45 to complete epic. Which means that you can't re-implant the LE chip and thats not fair really you should be able to re-implant it simple as that.
Look at other games there not half as good as Neocron imo but they have many times more players !! and I think its because it serves for both player types. In other words 1 being PVP/PKER and the other being Carebear/non-pvp just my thoughts make LE implantable after lvl 30 no restrictions and I'm sure we will have alot more players. Heh then at least I can shout put your LE in again when the server was at high population *sniff* :(
The LE is fine as it is.
The idea of it being disabled in the WL is half-baked.
1) You're working off the name of the chip. Rename it Global Defender.
2) Non-PVP many times are tradeskillers. How will these people get to the MB or TH to serve you better?
3) The only real "abuse" of the chip is as an OP scout. It has multiple disadvantages as listed above.
4) As a new player i would appreciate the ability to explore the vast wasteland without loosing things to PKers. Indeed the exploration idea is what drew me to this game initially.
5) Have it drop out after a certain level? I know I for one don't pay attention to my /xx rank at all. Happily leveling out near the MB, gain a level mid Spiderbot fight, rank rises, Rhino comes by and kills you, hacker jumps out taking your new wep or imp or whatever. :mad:
In a nut shell this game is way too complicated to learn initially and in the long run. Making anything that helps with the learning process more complicated is foolish. Like needing to know how to spell a word to look up how to spell it in the dictionary. o_O
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