View Full Version : PvP Improvement
Because the again upcoming discussions about the whole PvP situation and the unhappiness with it, i would like to make a poll about some proposals beeing made to improve it.
The main problem are truly the monks, especially the PPU. Things that are objected to, are PPU-influence, PPU invulnerability, APU damage, shitbuffs and para.
What do you think would make PvP more enjoyable for first? You have multiple choices. Please try to be objective, and don't say something like i hate to be parashocked, remove it completely (oh wait...you can't choose that :p).
I know it's hard to imagine all the consequences of a change but alot of us have a long time experience in PvP, even more than any of the KK employees, so we should be able to judge some options.
My choice is to weaken PPU influence because i think it's ok if the PPU itself is nearly invulnerable, as long as he is not able to make others nearly invulnerable. Because foreign shields were already nerfed before, i would only like the foreign heal to be nerfed a bit too, it outheals too much in my opinion.
I know parashock is a bitch but you can deal with it, Holy Anti Paralyse and Antidrugs are quiet effective. But i could imagine for example a different para effect that doesn't freeze the aim too. Freezer weapons should be removed or made viable, i personaly dont't like to see all classes to be able to freeze. Maybe you could change the freeze effect to the changed para effect i suggested and let the para be as it is.
People pretend to use shitbuffs against the PPU's invulerability because there is no other way to kill them, that's not really true and it is also used on tanks and apus to gain advantage. Well, you don't really have to kill a PPU if there is nobody left that he can support. Anyway shitbuffing makes no sense and is an abuse of spells (to not call it exploit), so it should be cut off and maybe other anti-PPU things implemented if it's really necessary.
About the APU damage, i think the damage is ok as long as the APU isn't nearly invulerable with the help of a PPU.
That's only the view on the PvP itself (or better the monkproblem), another problem is the Outpost-system, especially the safe UG. I am sure many other problems will be find with any change beeing made, but we hardly need a change to gain new perspectives.
I don't know if that poll leads to anything because there are too many different meanings and there may be other options missing. There are also alot of people beeing sick of the whole discussion and rather bear with the situation than be part of it. But i was in the mood to make it and we will see. ;)
Dribble Joy
16-11-04, 16:12
I know parashock is a bitch but you can deal with it, Holy Anti Paralyse and Antidrugs are quiet effective.
...........
you do actually PvP right?
4th repost:
I am ferverently against para, I loathe it.
Any and all forms of shocking renders an opponent virtually unable to fight back.
Where speed was once no defence against peoples aim, para means that the para victim cannot target the shocker, in addition the victim is reduced to a crawl where even the most hopeless of people can strike them without effort, also rendering their ability to escape null.
PPUs do not NEED para, noone NEEDS para.
Get rid of it, no drugs, no resist psi thing, no special armour or 'para-stealth'.
Free up those QB spaces for something that might just (shock horror) help make the fight FUN (heaven forbid).
Regarding the other stuff.
Slight tweakage won't get us anywhere, KK need to grab PvP/ppus by the balls and do something.
Unfortunately, if they do, they will piss off too many selfinterested people.
My brain port idea is still floating about btw.
unfortunately this discussion wont lead anywhere.... so many people disagree with the _FACT_ that PPU is unbalanced...people have to realize this first.....
best thing would be remove ppus
probable changes would be sd selfcast only.. mc nerf freeze nerf/removal....
or just heal 25 secs with same effect as 15 seconds.... and further nerf for sd foreign cast..
I would say some sort of boost/tweak of the antipara drugs would be very welcomed.
Such as letting them stack in QB for example.
Or, as I've mentioned before, make them usable by hotkeys directly from the inventory.
EDIT: Best solution overall would be to remove freezers period. I don't want to use them in PvP, I don't like them. They are just a waste of space in qb (spells/freezers/drugs).
like i posted in the anti nib buff thread, remove the PPU and the PvP equation practically equals it's self out, atm a PPU gives you a surety, it SHOULD only give you a bonus, but because PPUs have gotten increasingly more...unkillable....so have the high end mods, just look at DoY 2/3, MC5, Juggernaught 120/120s and the harder of the 2 Ceres labs, you NEED a ppu now.
Now i dont want PPUs removed, but turnt into an advantage, i dont care if they're unkillable machinces, they just shouldnt be able to confer that ability.
Para fucks it all up tho, look at melee, for melee you have to get right up into their face, now VS melee i rarely go down easy, unless either they surprise me up tight like in MB corridoors, or if im para'd to hell and back and cant move
...........
you do actually PvP right?
Yes i do, and i get parashocked alot beeing an APU. I hate it but i accept it as an pvp element in an mmorpg, this is still no real shooter. Because of the netcode i even think it is somehow needed. Only thing i see, that the effect may limit the ability to fight too much and could use some change.
Regarding the other stuff.
Slight tweakage won't get us anywhere, KK need to grab PvP/ppus by the balls and do something.
Unfortunately, if they do, they will piss off too many selfinterested people.
My brain port idea is still floating about btw.
Well a whole new concept will be too hard to realize i think. In the current situation i believe that small changes making PvP more enjoyable are alot more worth it.
KRIMINAL99
16-11-04, 16:39
you forgot unlock quickbelts / destroy safeslot
Just a sidenote: Remove Para means that no mob will para you either, no city guards, no warbots, no hoverbots, no maulers, not even these evil level 127 Juggernauts (which technically glue you to the ground). The remove para drugs and the remove para spells all work in these cases. So when you cry for remove para then please show us solutions to all these cases where it has to be removed (especially the city guards, there is a reason they mostly para you instead of doing insta-death damage).
all the psi needs a total overhaul, but i think its gone too far....
@Darkana: It doesnt HAVE to mean that, just take away the user spell, not the effect
Remove para means removing freezers weapons and spells from runners. I don't think anyone ever ment the mobs as well for example.
Change Foreign casting of shields effect to only 20% of their self casting strength.
Change Foreign casting of heal effect to only 40% of their self casting strength.
Change (player) para effect so it reduces AGL + ATL by 50 for 10 seconds. (50 would be Holy para and all rare frezzers it would reduce depending on level of spell/weapon)
Add a new range of anti-ppu weapons. (well, perhaps 1 or 2...need to think more about this)
That, I believe would mean a step in the right direction.
I know parashock is a bitch but you can deal with it, Holy Anti Paralyse and Antidrugs are quiet effective. But i could imagine for example a different para effect that doesn't freeze the aim too.
Heh yeah antidrugs sorta do there job but melee tanks have the ammoless insta freeze tool anyway so you pop a nice expensive drug they see you move fast again and whop their "stone cold steve stunner" back on you which literally does leave you stone cold
Jusr remove PPUs and tweak the mobs accordingly so that they can be killed w/o a PPU strapped to ur ass.
Also, yeah unlock the quickbelt so that even tanks could get some loot from theri victims.
Heh yeah antidrugs sorta do there job but melee tanks have the ammoless insta freeze tool anyway so you pop a nice expensive drug they see you move fast again and whop their "stone cold steve stunner" back on you which literally does leave you stone cold
Yes, i have to agree to that. Maybe shockers should have another effect than the para, perhaps something like the drugeffect, i don't know.
Dribble Joy
16-11-04, 17:21
Anit-para drugs are totally useless, if they were a viable method of countering para, people would not use para weapons.
Tanks (melee) can para at a insane rate, heavy users can use the low level spells, spies and PEs can use the low-mid/mid level para spells, the only class that cannot para effectively is the apu.
People will spam you over and over untill you run out of drugs in your belt, run out of drug entirely or can't see/move due to the flash.
Even if drugs WERE an effective counter to para I would still oppose para.
It's what para is, what it does and how it affects the gameplay.
On this basis para must be removed from PvP, without it people might actaully concentrate on fighting and not trying to para someone in order to GANK them. That what para is, a GANK TOOL.
It tears all sense of skill, balance and above all, far above all, ruins the fun of PvP, and that's why I and others PvP, because it is fun. Para is not fun.
Another PPU Nerf Thread, and I am Bored with them....
Ealier there was a PPU whining about foreign casts, and how they should be removed cause he died when someone hit him with TL3 heal and stuff ....
Now its this side
Yes I got a PPU, and he is in Limbo between NC1 and NC2, My clan is 8 RL people big, and the best we have is a hybrid who can look after us when doing DOY Tunnels.
We get s annoyed as anyone when you in a fight (As we were over the weekend, of 2 spies vs 3 apus + dronner) and they still needed 2 PPU's and another APU, Needless to say each one of them died (Except the PPU's) and we too died a few times, but with
A) No PPU stuck to our arse and
B) No Imps cause of bugs
We were able to get up and running quick
Point is PPU's have a place, Sure people can't hunt without them, and they are fine...
Do you know the feeling when you kill one, that joy feeling knowing you actually owned a PPU,
That feeling alone is worth having them in game
you forgot unlock quickbelts / destroy safeslotAnd that got what to do with pvp balance? o_O
I'd like to see blessed and holy heal nerfed, both in selfcast and foreigncast. Maybe also another slight nerf of foreigncast holy shelter/deflector.
Apu dmg needs to be lowered slightly, maybe just lower the random damage effect. And give em line of sight.
Melee damage needs to be lowered. Melee shockers need a sledgehammer nerf. Its not funny anymore.
H-C runspeed slightly increased. Theyre just too slow.
Para nerfed. or changed. Or removed. I dunno.
Make all sorts of antidrugs researchable and/or recycable again. So many Apus/Ppus around, its a pain in the ass being forced to either waste lots of money on the good ones or to recycle the crap ones. And make em stack like stamina boosters!!!
Slasher/Executioner/FL/Disruptor moved to TL 116.
StealthyAssassi
17-11-04, 01:44
But as someone said before already: the netcode somehow FORCES us to use para - we had a PPU at an OP fight today and he was WAY TOO FAST, even when para'd he was moving pretty quickly, cast anti freeze and ran again (around thight corners and jumping so we wouldnt be able to target him because he would be shown as just flying through the corner)
Voted for reduce remote heal/shield further, kill fucking para, and stop noob-buffing.
I absolutely do not want to nerf PPUs out of existence or make them easier to kill - I just want them to give (example figures) a team a +50% advantage instead of the current ridiculous +400%
The PvM argument is specious because current mob strength has been scaled to PPU strength from a long running positive feedback loop. Because the PPU's relative abilities are now so far beyond the rest of the player classes', not to have a PPU isn't a simply a disadvantage ... it makes large portions of the game utterly impossible.
QuantumDelta
17-11-04, 03:48
unfortunately this discussion wont lead anywhere.... so many people disagree with the _FACT_ that PPU is unbalanced...people have to realize this first.....
best thing would be remove ppus
probable changes would be sd selfcast only.. mc nerf freeze nerf/removal....
or just heal 25 secs with same effect as 15 seconds.... and further nerf for sd foreign cast..
Odd.
Exactly what I voted, pretty much.
i love people who say get rid of ppus, when that means you cant cave or anything, too funny.
PvP is fine as it is, besides the tanks using Thunderbolts, then whipping out their CS to finish me o_O
thats probably the only thing that ticks me off as a PE
Blacksword
17-11-04, 05:50
you forgot unlock quickbelts / destroy safeslot
And that got what to do with pvp balance? o_O
@snork
its for the people that get the better part of thier gear next to grs most likely..... :rolleyes:
this is fucking bullshit.
at least 80% of those options is nothing else then:
NERF ZE FOOKING PPU !!!!!1111oneoenoneoen.
get a fucking life.
improve the fucking hc/mc/pc/rc weapons dmg.
or just delete the fucking PPUs from the game, whinor.
if u cant kill PPU, improve ur skills.
if u get para'd.. take drugs. if the ppu is good, leave. dont whine
improve the fucking hc/mc/pc/rc weapons dmg.I assume your solution to runaway inflation would also be :-
"Print m0r MUNNEH !!!!q1onone!!" ?
i love people who say get rid of ppus, when that means you cant cave or anything, too funny.
Yeah but the caves were made insane because of the ppus....
Sure they can put it back as easy as they put it up.
Why mess with 4 classes when only 1 needs touching?
Sorry, but what has PvM to do with PvP? PvM can be adapt if necessary and it's not that big problem i would say.
u just gotta live with the fact that PPUs will always be around to annoy u.
as said in another thread, of u want a ppu dead.. dont whine for nerfs but just bring the old almighty army vs 1 ppu..
crying for nerfs wont help u.
and @Kurai, improving dmg will get u higher rank, which is less money.
Bugs Gunny
17-11-04, 12:20
If KK were to completely overhaul ppu's and tune some of the high level mobs, neocron would be perfect.
The argument that they need to up dammage on 3 other classes and then readjust armor and resists and the whole shit is just ludicrous.
Liebestoter
17-11-04, 12:32
Nerf heals - either make them instant with a recast time and greater psi pool use, or nerf the holy line.
Nerf shelters/deflectors - after absorbing a certain amount of damage, determined by PPU + PSI Use, the shelters drop regardless. That way, when you're getting slugged on by 5 people or so, shelt and deflect drop pretty damn quick. And maybe increase their cast time just a tad.
Nerf para. Self explanitory. Oh look, I'm para'd and I now have a small horde of melee tanks exploring the inner depths of my rectum. Joy.
Tone down random damage on holy lighting. ZAP BROKEN LEGS ZAP ZAP HAHA UR DEAD. So much for having capped energy resist. Heh.
Tone down melee damage or tone melees in some way. They run faster than HC, deliver more damage in a shorter period of time, never have to reload and just chomp a stamina booster once every thirty seconds to stay on top of the game. That's silly.
Make it so stray shots can hit things that aren't being actively targetted (is this already in? Haven't noticed if it is.) so we can blast stealthers easier. If we're hurting them by shooting at the blue blur when they're stealthed, let us see some damage numbers.
Don't change anti-drugs. It takes a second for whatever chemicals they have to circulate. If you want fast results, buy the expensive ones.
Noob buffing - well, this wouldn't be an issue if you could click off buffs. Y'know, cursor over icon, click on it, have it dispelled. Or maybe higher TL spells of the same 'line' would overwrite each other. I.E. Holy Shelt overwrites Blessed. So a PPU could re-buff themselves, but it'd take a couple seconds.
Something needs to be done to remedy the fact that, in short, a PPU showing up to any fight more or less ensures victory for the side with which he is aligned.
second that
no not at all.....
with good ppus on both sides a fight can last a long time... and tbh thats a lot more fun than a 2 min fight
ppu 4tw!
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