View Full Version : PPU's vs noob buffs.
yes, i know this subject has been touched 56868934768347983 times, but i want to have my little moan.
i'am talking about noob buffs, why do people in general think its ok to "exploit" when casting noob heals, shelters onto a ppu to kill him.
Definition of an exploit:
-To use game mechanics in such a way other than it is intended use,
-To use something to get an advantage over another player,
So in essence, casting noob buffs, heals on a ppu "IS" an exploit. By which they are using a tactic which wasn't intended for people to use.
So my next question is;
Why do Gm's do nothing against people using these game killing methods?
Why don't reakktor do something to stop noob buffs?
i've heard alot of ways to stop people using these methods, Personally, making buffs overide is the easiest and most plausable way to stop noob buffs, and i don't see how it can make ppu's overpowered, or that it can be exploited.
it really isn't that hard to kill a ppu if you have the skill, there are alot of things can kill ppus.... you've got antibuffs, mosquito drones, tanks, anti heal spells, and the old almighty army against 1 ppu.
If you find yourself unable to kill them, its probably cause your not good enough to kill them, or that they're simply too good to be killed by 1/2 players. I mean ffs, PPU's give up the ability to do anything on their own, they should at least have the opportunity to not be killed by 2 people.
In conclusion, i know iam going to get flamed by people who think noob buffs are cool, and those people who think ppus are overpowered, but all am asking is for the class i've played for 2 years to stop being cheated, and for the class to be fun again.
some gm said its that they dont count noob buffs as cheating :(
Bugs Gunny
15-11-04, 13:33
Perfectly good way to kill a ppu.
If you wanna do something about this, then do something about the solo 100+ hacking ppu that goes out with rusty double edge sword, damageboosting paraglueing people and wearing them down to death, in order to hack the belt next.
Perfectly good way to kill a ppu.
If you wanna do something about this, then do something about the solo 100+ hacking ppu that goes out with rusty double edge sword, damageboosting paraglueing people and wearing them down to death, in order to hack the belt next.
please explain to me why its a "perfect" way.
to render to ppu totally and undenably dead? with a tactic that requires _NO_ skill at all?
but, you are answering my post with yet, another "lose end" in the game, i agree PPU's should not be able to wield any type of weapon to kill someone... then again how else is a ppu to do epics? *shrugs*
Anyway, so because of another lose end related to PPU's you think its ok to use such tactics...
*sigh*
i would like a reason to why they don't count noob buffs as exploiting... its quite funny they can pick an choose what constitutes as an exploit, its their game i guess.
Well, What other game do you know where you heal your enemies so you can kill em, Or improve their defences to kill them o_O
[PiN]Fluffy
15-11-04, 13:51
Descent PWNS! lol best ppu EVER ^_^. But yes noob buffing is lame.
The PPU is a problem in many ways, but i don't understand why that situation justifies the abuse of ingame mechanics. Oh wait, people say it's a feature against the PPU. :rolleyes:
I think the only reason why KK doesn't consider it as an exploit, is because they can't control it and cant do anything against it. Or they just don't want to do something because there are more important things to do than improve PvP combat.
Does anyboy actually still enjoy PvP, i mean really enjoy? Well, PvP is still a enjoyable thrill, but afterwards you curse the current situation too often. And the fact that people have to use unfair methods shows alot.
LOL, ok, I don't see what the big deal is...
if you want to survive, just bloody have your own holy heal going all the time. Same for buffs.
Why would you think it's an exploit?
Compared to other classes, ppus are almost invulnerable :rolleyes:
i still enjoy pvp... sometimes, but every time someone uses tactics like this just makes me think whats the point of playing anymore,
I worked hard for my shit to have it taken away from me with out a chance of surivival. Its upsetting.
Self cast spells should override forgien cast spells.... period.
LOL, ok, I don't see what the big deal is...
if you want to survive, just bloody have your own holy heal going all the time. Same for buffs.
Why would you think it's an exploit?
Compared to other classes, ppus are almost invulnerable :rolleyes:
did you know, when you are antibuffed you lose heals/shelters/deflectors, and that you have to recast them in order to get them back up again?
yes, you will say well cast them faster then, and i agree with you, but it takes 2/3 seconds to get all your buffs back up with a running heal, only take 2/3's of a second to cast a tl3 deflector on someone, and then hit them with pob or even a psi attack 2.
There is alot of people who play together irl, so with an APU/PPU sitting next to one another, lag isn't ever an issue, as soon as the APU casts antibuff, his PPU will be able to cast a noob shelter straight away.
I think the only reason why KK doesn't consider it as an exploit, is because they can't control it and cant do anything against it. Or they just don't want to do something because there are more important things to do than improve PvP combat.
I think you are wrong here ;)
"Controlling" it would be possible w/o much problems I guess ...
Maybe the don't want to do something because they think it wont enhance PvP combat to make the PPU even less vulnerable (and dont get me wrong here ..my main-char is ppu too)
You need to time your buffs/movement good enough to give shitbuffers little chance... I dont see why this method of taking down a ppu should be removed ..we are tough enough as things are ;)
You need to time your buffs/movement good enough to give shitbuffers little chance... I dont see why this method of taking down a ppu should be removed ..we are tough enough as things are ;)
i know PPU's are "supposed" to be hard to kill but if you are PPU then we do sacrifice the ability to do anything on our own. but in extreme cases of a single APU and a single melee tank being able to take down a PPU with ease is sad.
LOL, ok, I don't see what the big deal is...
if you want to survive, just bloody have your own holy heal going all the time. Same for buffs.
Why would you think it's an exploit?
Compared to other classes, ppus are almost invulnerable :rolleyes:
And if the MC5 commander would be invulnerable, would it be ok to use a safespot to be able to kill him?
No matter what is wrong, abusing gamemechanics is not justified. KK has to fix it...point.
Well, What other game do you know where you heal your enemies so you can kill em, Or improve their defences to kill them o_O
That's exactly the point. ( :lol: )
Bugs Gunny
15-11-04, 14:12
c'mon, a good ppu watches the timer on his spells and make sure he keeps the buffs going. In that time he can easily run to a genrep to escape death.
And as for ppu's not being able to do epics without melee weapons????
I've done the crahn epic punching the mobs to death, no biggie, the running around the map is worse.
I have a mid level ppu and a low level apu, and i must say both classes are overpowered, and as far as i'm concerned "magic" has no place in a post apocalyptic world. I'm sure KK put it in just to attract the D&D crowd, sicne there seems to be a market for wizards.
c'mon, a good ppu watches the timer on his spells and make sure he keeps the buffs going. In that time he can easily run to a genrep to escape death.
did you know, when you are antibuffed you lose heals/shelters/deflectors, and that you have to recast them in order to get them back up again?
for those who forget to read whats been written.
so, did you enjoy spending over 15 minutes to kill that person on your epic?
Noob buffing is a good tactic I use it all the time as I solo most of the time and if someone has a PPU be it tank or apu I nib heal them. This prevents the ppu from putting them in god mode where I can't win many times have I killed the apu who brought a ppu with him. When I'm at OP fights I don't do much of the killing tbh I run around nib healing and s/d-ing the PPU's works a charm
call me lame I don't care its not an exploit as it is something which the game allows by normal means
/Edit heres something you PPU's can do ADAPT or DIE
I think you are wrong here ;)
"Controlling" it would be possible w/o much problems I guess ...
Maybe the don't want to do something because they think it wont enhance PvP combat to make the PPU even less vulnerable (and dont get me wrong here ..my main-char is ppu too)
You need to time your buffs/movement good enough to give shitbuffers little chance... I dont see why this method of taking down a ppu should be removed ..we are tough enough as things are ;)
You all talk about taking down PPUs only an i know there no ways to take a PPU down without an APU. Should be reviewed.
A PPU with skills may even survive shitbuffs and does'nt suffer that much of it. But that so called "tactic" is not only used on PPUs...now tell me what justifies that !?
Bugs Gunny
15-11-04, 14:26
Antibuff is one of the easiest to spot spells when being cast.
If you make the own heals override the tl3 heal and noob buffs, then you might as well throw that whole apu line of spells down the drain.
I jope it's not like it's two people that took you down?
If you bring a bunch of people a ppu should run, and if he doesn't run he should die.
EDIT: And this tactic is not only used on ppu's. It's common practice on the fighters that are with ppu's too.
if the ppu cant avoid noob buffing he is a noob :)
u cant kill good ppus without it anyways... so its fine... and it "boosts" the teamplay....
Noob buffing is a good tactic I use it all the time as I solo most of the time and if someone has a PPU be it tank or apu I nib heal them. This prevents the ppu from putting them in god mode where I can't win many times have I killed the apu who brought a ppu with him. When I'm at OP fights I don't do much of the killing tbh I run around nib healing and s/d-ing the PPU's works a charm
call me lame I don't care its not an exploit as it is something which the game allows by normal means
/Edit heres something you PPU's can do ADAPT or DIE
noob buffs are NOT a good tactic, its just a tactic that is AVAILABLE to those who unable to play part of a team. In which the response to that is, this game is supposed to be a team based game, not a soloist's game.
Its kinda retarded when people get angry when they can't solo an APU/PPU team....
When noob buffing first began their was some huge posts on it, I for one went particularly mental about it, but a GM did say it was not a bug or an exploit.
Someone else can going looking for the thread but the fact is its here to stay, like so many 'features' in the game, get used to it.
Antibuff is one of the easiest to spot spells when being cast.
If you make the own heals override the tl3 heal and noob buffs, then you might as well throw that whole apu line of spells down the drain.
I jope it's not like it's two people that took you down?
If you bring a bunch of people a ppu should run, and if he doesn't run he should die.
EDIT: And this tactic is not only used on ppu's. It's common practice on the fighters that are with ppu's too.
In all intense and purposes you are correct, but everyones com systems is far less laggy than neocron.
An example of this: APU shouts over coms, "antibuffing PPU A,"
his PPU then gets ready with his noob buff
APU antibuffs, PPU spots he's been antibuffed tries to
rebuff, before he can do this enemy PPU has already
casted a noob shelter. *BOOM few hl's later dead ppu*
Bugs Gunny
15-11-04, 14:36
noob buffs are NOT a good tactic, its just a tactic that is AVAILABLE to those who unable to play part of a team. In which the response to that is, this game is supposed to be a team based game, not a soloist's game.
Its kinda retarded when people get angry when they can't solo an APU/PPU team....
So you're telling me that you and your apu were killed by one person using noob buffs????????
Honestly noob buffing requires teamplay for it to work. It calls for great timing and division of tasks on the offensive team.
Definition of an exploit:
-To use game mechanics in such a way other than it is intended use,
-To use something to get an advantage over another player,
So in essence, casting noob buffs, heals on a ppu "IS" an exploit. By which they are using a tactic which wasn't intended for people to use.
Ok, by that definition ug synchlaming is an exploit, too. But i have never seen a GM doing something against it. :angel:
In my opinion PPU support isn't balanced anyway. In my opinion 2 or 3 PPUs should be able to support an opfight team and the spells shouldn't be as strong as now !
At the moment, some clans on mars sometimes come with 8-10 PPUs to an opfight, which means nonstop freezing, damageboosting, resurrecting etc., something a team with a few PPUs can't do ! It sux.
Until they don't balance the game in a way that reduces the importance of the ppu support itself and also the number of ppu's you need for an effective op-fight team, I have no problems with casting low-TL ppu spells on another player to get him down.
And like some of our PPUs (Morgatha) always says: "If it wasn't possible, noone would be able to kill me anyway." And you can't stop an army of good PPUs. You use 5 people to get this single ppu down while 3 of the other PPUs try to resurrect someone else in the meantime. It's totally senseless.
P.S.: I am always talking about ppus who play well. Newbie ppus are no problem at all, but pure pvp clans usually don't come with newbies !
If they come with 8 PPUs and you have 3, you usually can go home. Perhaps you kill each of their damagedealers 5 times, but you will always be freezed and they'll always try to resurrect someone somewhere. That's impossible for a team with 3 PPUs and you'll loose at the end. => PPU-support and the number of PPUs is way to important in OP-Fights. I wonder, when KK recognizes this, too.
/edit Ok, I think they don't do pvp themselves, so they'll probably never understand how op-fights work. :wtf:
Bugs Gunny
15-11-04, 14:38
In a perfect world, everyone refrains from noob buffing, tl3 healing ppu's, anitbuffing even, and surely from shocking and paraglueing.
In a perfect world people don't even fight.
This is neocron.
So you're telling me that you and your apu were killed by one person using noob buffs????????
Honestly noob buffing requires teamplay for it to work. It calls for great timing and division of tasks on the offensive team.
you missed my point, my point was, a person really shouldn't get that upset when they are unable to kill a APU/PPU on their own.
and yes noob buffing requires so much team work that, 1 apu says he's antibuffing someone over coms, then a nearby ppu whips out a noob buff and casts it when the antibuff is completed.... yep very skilled.
In a perfect world, everyone refrains from noob buffing, tl3 healing ppu's, anitbuffing even, and surely from shocking and paraglueing.
In a perfect world people don't even fight.
This is neocron.
In a perfect world Reakktor would sort all these problems out, and make the game enjoyable... for everyone.
Bugs Gunny
15-11-04, 14:45
Ok, so now we're talking about an apu - ppu team versus at least an apu - ppu team. Not about one person being angry because he can't take down an apu- ppu team right?
So, nobody prevents you from carying a noob buff in your belt.
Exploiting by using an unfair advantage.... that would only be applicable if you weren't able to use this tactic.
*shrug*
Noob buffing isn't a tactic I like or employ personally, but as long as the Holy PPU heal/shelter/deflector spells remain as excessive as they are at present then I can see why others might consider it a fair response.
why do people in general think its ok to "exploit" when casting noob heals, shelters onto a ppu to kill him.
Because it's perfectly okay to do so. It's not exploiting. The game allows you to do it. You don't have to do any tricks or gimmics to buff someone.
So in essence, casting noob buffs, heals on a ppu "IS" an exploit. By which they are using a tactic which wasn't intended for people to use.
No. It is your "opinion" that this is a tactic that isn't intended to be used, and your opinion is wrong.
Why do Gm's do nothing against people using these game killing methods?
Because it's perfectly okay to do so.
Why don't reakktor do something to stop noob buffs?
Because then the PPU is truly overpowered, and requires server side nerfs of his skills/damage of effectivness.
Did I get them all? I want my cookie.
Ok, so now we're talking about an apu - ppu team versus at least an apu - ppu team. Not about one person being angry because he can't take down an apu- ppu team right?
So, nobody prevents you from carying a noob buff in your belt.
Exploiting by using an unfair advantage.... that would only be applicable if you weren't able to use this tactic.
no.
i'll explain again, 1 melee tank, tries to go up against an APU/PPU team, melee tank gets owned... naturally. Melee tank then gets angry, omg omg omg, i can defeat them! PPU is so overpowered! then resort to noob buffs/heals to retaliate
Bugs Gunny
15-11-04, 14:57
euh... did the melee tank kill you and your apu ???????
If that's true then you have a problem as a ppu.
This means your buffs ran out and he used that time to do what? put noob deflector on u and tl 3 heal u and then killed you in 30 seconds?
I can only see this happening to ppu's that think they don't need to buff themselves
well if a PPU goes down by noob buff he is the big noob.
when a ppu is not able to cast his spells effetiv he should be killable!!!
a good PPU wont die that easy even when he has a noob buff!
no.
i'll explain again, 1 melee tank, tries to go up against an APU/PPU team, melee tank gets owned... naturally. Melee tank then gets angry, omg omg omg, i can defeat them! PPU is so overpowered! then resort to noob buffs/heals to retaliate
So, you were AFK?
If not, then how did the tank catch you without buffs?
LOL, if your name is Descent from TT then you just made yourself a target :D
superfresh
15-11-04, 15:29
I don't see why people are so apt to make PPUs more vulerable. They can't kill you, but they should be easily killable? PPUs should not be clay pigeons.
I like the idea of spell override. Higher TL spells should override lower ones.
Bugs Gunny
15-11-04, 15:32
Well, if you are alone in the wastes and you see a ppu with a sword strapped to his back.
RUUUUUUNNNNNN
Definition of an exploit:
-To use something to get an advantage over another player,
i hear a ppu...
~s
come on dec its been going on forever i've fought along side u for many of those battles in nc1 and sometimes when the bar gets lowered to noob buffing everyone has to resort to it. As a ppu i don't mind tl3 healing that i can survive its the tl25 thats the killer or maybe the combination of the two.
But on the otherside i've also used it to defeat enemy's and not just their ppu's i've done it on tanks apu's spies the lot and it is the most effective way to win. End of the day u have to take out their apu's before they can debuff u then theres no problem its just u have to focus ur attackers.
Dargeshaad
15-11-04, 15:39
*shrug*
Noob buffing isn't a tactic I like or employ personally, but as long as the Holy PPU heal/shelter/deflector spells remain as excessive as they are at present then I can see why others might consider it a fair response.
I second that
read the thread starters original comment, couldnt be arsed to read the rest.
stop fucking whining, if you weren't such an overpowered class in the first place there would be no need to do this.
sigh, some people really just can't read... or just not the mental capacity, to not understand. do i have to make a disclaimer to every post thats written.
ok,
I WAS NOT KILLED BY A SOLO (INSERT CLASS HERE), I WAS NOT AFK,
i was talking in general, noob buffs are pathetic. who needs noob buffs? apart from people with bad aim?
a good damage boost, antibuff, good aim is enough to kill most ppus... there are about 10 ppus that are skilled enough to withstand this. with the size of psi pool you can achieve now, you are able to double antibuff ppu's within seconds, and still have enough left in your psi pool to kill him with ease without noob buffing.
read the thread starters original comment, couldnt be arsed to read the rest.
stop fucking whining, if you weren't such an overpowered class in the first place there would be no need to do this.
i was waiting for someone to say that.
LOL, ok, I don't see what the big deal is...
if you want to survive, just bloody have your own holy heal going all the time. Same for buffs.
Why would you think it's an exploit?
:rolleyes:
imho, case closed. Its simple to insure yer buffed at all times. Kinda like makin sure you have ammo for yer guns. or drones.
This whinning about noob buffs on PPUs is the same as folks saying "don't attack me, I am not ready yet. Let me buff and stuff first". If yer caught with yer pants down, die with yer bpots on for christs sake.
It is amazing that instead of taking the EASY road to insure this doesn't happen to thier PPU, folks want to put it on KK to fix. Seems lazy beyond words to me . . .
Like my Grandpa usta say, "If ya can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen."
imho, case closed. Its simple to insure yer buffed at all times. Kinda like makin sure you have ammo for yer guns. or drones.
This whinning about noob buffs on PPUs is the same as folks saying "don't attack me, I am not ready yet. Let me buff and stuff first". If yer caught with yer pants down, die with yer bpots on for christs sake.
It is amazing that instead of taking the EASY road to insure this doesn't happen to thier PPU, folks want to put it on KK to fix. Seems lazy beyond words to me . . .
Like my Grandpa usta say, "If ya can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen."
did you know, when you are antibuffed you lose heals/shelters/deflectors, and that you have to recast them in order to get them back up again?
i'll quote myself again.
i'll quote myself again.
LOL!!!! So maybe tanks should whine about having to reload their weapons.
Saying that buffs don't last forever doesn't come close to addressing my response.
noob buffs are NOT a good tactic, its just a tactic that is AVAILABLE to those who unable to play part of a team. In which the response to that is, this game is supposed to be a team based game, not a soloist's game.
Its kinda retarded when people get angry when they can't solo an APU/PPU team....
No you see you are shit and can't accept that so you try change the game to make you even more god like . TBH I would fucking love to see even a clan take down 1 fucking PPU that is good and knows what he is doing with out noob buffing. Fact is there are some people who just happen to know how to setup there chars to be allmost unkillable even with shit loads of people attacking I have seen it with my own eyes.
I'm not talking about the normal ppu here either but a PVP one that is setup not to die. About team based now it takes some team work to noob buff a really good PPU and can really only be done using TS unless you have another PPU to cast the noob buff. But even that needs voice coms to work 100% of the time PE casts to slow compared to a capped PPU who casts allmost instantly. Doing it with out voice comms can be very hard so its not really considered non team play is it?
:rolleyes:
i would direct you to again read my response.
-To use game mechanics in such a way other than it is intended use
there is your answer.
it is an exploit and need to be fixed ASAP.
and if a GM says otherwise, then certain AoE tactics should be allowed.
Then again maybe you are a good PPU ok so you don't like to be noob buffed and noob healed noob healing would be harder to counter. But the noon buffs it can be countered most of the time if you pay attention lets face it if the enemy has time to anti buff you your team has allready lost imo. Thing is if a good PPU can't be taking down they can rezz the dead and the fight continues. Just think about it for one second what would PPUing be like with out the worry of noob buffs or heals ? yeah god mode for all and fights that last way way too long
there is your answer.
it is an exploit and need to be fixed ASAP.
and if a GM says otherwise, then certain AoE tactics should be allowed.
So something that has been ingame as far as I can remeber and even way befor my fucking time has been an exploit!!!?
Erm no .... it really pisses me off this people whining in order to make the game how they wanna play it it not an EXPLOIT so STFU thx fine you don't like it but its not an expliot
No you see you are shit and can't accept that so you try change the game to make you even more god like . TBH I would fucking love to see even a clan take down 1 fucking PPU that is good and knows what he is doing with out noob buffing. Fact is there are some people who just happen to know how to setup there chars to be allmost unkillable even with shit loads of people attacking I have seen it with my own eyes.
I'm not talking about the normal ppu here either but a PVP one that is setup not to die. About team based now it takes some team work to noob buff a really good PPU and can really only be done using TS unless you have another PPU to cast the noob buff. But even that needs voice coms to work 100% of the time PE casts to slow compared to a capped PPU who casts allmost instantly. Doing it with out voice comms can be very hard so its not really considered non team play is it?
:rolleyes:
so now your attacking my skills of being a ppu? i've been PPU for a long time, and i've helped alot of PPU's with their own setups. I've never even played against you.
I didn't want to say this because its open to flames but i was one of the best ppus on two servers, Saturn AND Pluto. So i do know what iam talking about, yes, i've got up against entire clans to run around them with them antibuffing me, maybe because iam skilled? or maybe because they aren't good enough to kill me? So now, am overpowered, because i've practiced over the entire time i've played neocron,
why not say a tank who has played for a long time, who can kill more than 1 target 90% of the time is overpowered as well.
This message is hidden because QuickFix is on your ignore list.
think of an inteligent answer, then come try again.
superfresh
15-11-04, 17:27
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the ability to override a PPU's most basic function be the same as, say, having the ability to somehow replace a Spy's Healing Light with a Lazar Rifle?
God honest some people really wind me up take a look at the game PPU unbalance it and making it so noob buff will make it worse
/Edit soloing an apu/ppu or ppu/tank or ppu/spy or ppu/pe CAN'T be fucking done without noob healing unless there shite!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the ability to override a PPU's most basic function be the same as, say, having the ability to somehow replace a Spy's Healing Light with a Lazar Rifle?
lol, couldn't of put it better myself.
If someone consider noobbuffs as an exploit, he doesn't say that the PPU and all the balance is just fine...it's about the principle of abusing game mechanics. If you use a healing spell to support killing someone, it's simply wrong. You don't have to think far to realize that. The reasons why you do, or think you have to do that, are another point.
lol, couldn't of put it better myself.
oh so you want fucking god mode?
God honest some people really wind me up take a look at the game PPU unbalance it and making it so noob buff will make it worse
why are PPU's unbalanced? 1 perfectly skilled apu can kill 1 medium skilled ppu, and 2 perfectly good apus can definately kill ANY ppu. Granted, a tank/spy/pe couldn't kill a PPU but they can easily kill APU's. Each class has their different roles.
Why do people feel it neccesary to be able to kill everyone?
oh so you want fucking god mode?
No, I want to be killed by someone who has the skill to do it. Not by some nib with a noob shelter.
why are PPU's unbalanced? 1 perfectly skilled apu can kill 1 medium skilled ppu, and 2 perfectly good apus can definately kill ANY ppu. Granted, a tank/spy/pe couldn't kill a PPU but they can easily kill APU's. Each class has their different roles.
Why do people feel it neccesary to be able to kill everyone?
ahahahah sure.........
/EDIT umm around 400 hitpoints and god like energy resist like a tank with a fucking holy heal?
no
even my PE can take quite a few of them HL without buff so no tbh
/edit 2 go on I dare you my PE has only 125 energy resist total with armour btw
ahahahah sure.........
Melee tanks don't do energy damage, neither do devourers, or pain easers, or speed guns.
Bugs Gunny
15-11-04, 17:37
Here's a sollution:
Remove ppu's from the game, increase self buffs a bit and adjust mobs accordingly.
Problem solved, along with many many others.
EDIT: Hey, clanmates, this doesn't mean i don't want your help leveling anymore , lol.
Nib buffing is a 100% legal way of killing a ppu.......
Either get timing or die to a nib buff....
Here's a sollution:
Remove ppu's from the game, increase self buffs a bit and adjust mobs accordingly.
Problem solved, along with many many others.
EDIT: Hey, clanmates, this doesn't mean i don't want your help leveling anymore , lol.
and your gonna get your mc5's how? with a tl25 shelter? lol...
Bugs Gunny
15-11-04, 17:40
ADJUST MOBS ACCORDINGLY.
Why do you think they have to make things like 120/120 dragonflies ?
ADJUST MOBS ACCORDINGLY.
Why do you think they have to make things like 120/120 dragonflies ?
so you have to use a tl3 deflector instead?
Switch-Blade
15-11-04, 17:43
Well This is a good Post better than all that real life pics and shit .............
The question is not that should people use TL3 heal or TL3 Shelter Just is it an Exploit did KK ever mean for a low level Heal or Shelter to be used as a weapon and all we can do at this point is Pray that they read this post and ANSWER
Descent is a very good PPU as he is often told the only rerason we spam you with noob buffs is its the only way that my clan can KILL you coz our apu's have never heard of anti heal and can't work together to time anti buff and so on coz then our noob tanks rush in and try and kill you so we get the noob tanks to spam noob buffs on you and ppu's to noob shelter to give our noob apu's time to kill you with there HL now if KK can just answer one question about exploiting the spells to get an advantage over other classes whats the point of anti heal and antibuff
Bugs Gunny
15-11-04, 17:46
so you have to use a tl3 deflector instead?
I think you misunderstood.
It's because there are ppu's running around, and capped players can just stand there and click the mousebutton to kill mobs while you heal them and buffthem.
Gets pretty boring and then they ask KK for "new content" meaning higher level mobs.
I think you misunderstood.
It's because there are ppu's running around, and capped players can just stand there and click the mousebutton to kill mobs while you heal them and buffthem.
Gets pretty boring and then they ask KK for "new content" meaning higher level mobs.
theres only a handful of people who play the game for the pvm side of the game, but ultimately, if you remove the PPU's you will make much of the game inaccessable, or maybe make things too easy.
if you get noob buffed and think you are going to die then why don't you use your other "passive" skills to escape by parashocking the enemie and throwing a soulcluster at them. hell, if you have the time DB them a couple times and run like hell.
Well This is a good Post better than all that real life pics and shit .............
The question is not that should people use TL3 heal or TL3 Shelter Just is it an Exploit did KK ever mean for a low level Heal or Shelter to be used as a weapon and all we can do at this point is Pray that they read this post and ANSWER
Descent is a very good PPU as he is often told the only rerason we spam you with noob buffs is its the only way that my clan can KILL you coz our apu's have never heard of anti heal and can't work together to time anti buff and so on coz then our noob tanks rush in and try and kill you so we get the noob tanks to spam noob buffs on you and ppu's to noob shelter to give our noob apu's time to kill you with there HL now if KK can just answer one question about exploiting the spells to get an advantage over other classes whats the point of anti heal and antibuff
Antibuff takes away the heal as well. PPU has to recast shelter+defl+heal after an antibuff. Yes, there are really good weapons against PPUs, and it's not even only APUs that have them, Raptor is also one of these.
Point is your not killing a good PPU even with 2 apu's I myslef tryed a PPU and was a noob one with only blessed shelter and Holy lightning made me laugh posion was the main thing that hurt. And as for melee tanks well at that time people complyed there where overpowered the POB ones they hardly dented my PPU monk! It did infact hurt PE's thougth and still does much so :( but we had these people saying omg melee tank killing a PPU. Made me think those ppus were shit ones
Well This is a good Post better than all that real life pics and shit .............
The question is not that should people use TL3 heal or TL3 Shelter Just is it an Exploit did KK ever mean for a low level Heal or Shelter to be used as a weapon and all we can do at this point is Pray that they read this post and ANSWER
Descent is a very good PPU as he is often told the only rerason we spam you with noob buffs is its the only way that my clan can KILL you coz our apu's have never heard of anti heal and can't work together to time anti buff and so on coz then our noob tanks rush in and try and kill you so we get the noob tanks to spam noob buffs on you and ppu's to noob shelter to give our noob apu's time to kill you with there HL now if KK can just answer one question about exploiting the spells to get an advantage over other classes whats the point of anti heal and antibuff
Your post would be readable if you used "." and "," :rolleyes:
@ Xiphias:
What was your point again? Since you are an uber leet PPU, noob buffs wont harm you. Then what? You don't like the annoyance of someone trying to kill you?
If newb buffing is an exploit then so is parashocking for any other reason then for a ppu to run away as that was the reason para was kept for ppus to use it as a defense mechanism.
Point is your not killing a good PPU even with 2 apu's I myslef tryed a PPU and was a noob one with only blessed shelter and Holy lightning made me laugh posion was the main thing that hurt. And as for melee tanks well at that time people complyed there where overpowered the POB ones they hardly dented my PPU monk! It did infact hurt PE's thougth and still does much so :( but we had these people saying omg melee tank killing a PPU. Made me think those ppus were shit ones
Your story made me think, those APUs were shit ones. ;)
there is your answer.
it is an exploit and need to be fixed ASAP.Playing devil's advocate here ...
You are making an unfounded assumption ... that it's not intended.
Until you find the line of comment in the source code or design notes that says "casting low level buffs on a char capable of better self-buffs is definitely not how we want this feature to work" then you haven't got a leg to stand on.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the ability to override a PPU's most basic function be the same as, say, having the ability to somehow replace a Spy's Healing Light with a Lazar Rifle?Well - a PPU can already remove my ATH/AGL points (parashock) and can remove my resists/armour (dmg boost), damage me in stealth (soulcluster), can turn off 92% of the damage I deal (holy shields) and replace one minutes worth of my dealt damage in 5 seconds (holy heal).
You'll be interested to know that the 92% figure for shields *doesn't* effectively turn a Healing Light into a Lazar rifle...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
it turns it into a TL-5 Street Model Rifle :p
If newb buffing is an exploit then so is parashocking for any other reason then for a ppu to run away as that was the reason para was kept for ppus to use it as a defense mechanism.
The reason of parashock is to paralyse someone. Not more, not less. What you do afterwards is not part of the spell's reason.
The reason of heal spells is to heal. Not to hinder someone from healing.
Your story made me think, those APUs were shit ones. ;)
nah look a few posts back mate my PE can take a few HL with out buff this means around 4 to 5 which a ppu can buff shelter very quickly . Hell I i can fight 5 people and they needed a ppu to bring me down what would it take too bring down a ppu with out noob buffs?
The reason of parashock is to paralyse someone. Not more, not less. What you do afterwards is not part of the spell's reason.
The reason of heal spells is to heal. Not to hinder someone from healing.
A tl3 heal still heals not as good but still does, newb buffs give advantages even id not as high as level 3 buffs so how is that going against what they are used for?
And yes what you do afterwards does effect why you use it or otherwise all freezers would still be working in game not just para and mc shockers.
-To use something to get an advantage over another player
so i cant use a better gun than some on else? or better implants? ok ive not got a SA, so if any one with one kills me its an exploit?
imo PPUs fuck it all up atm, if you take PPUs out of the PvP equation it practically balances it's self, but because PPUs have gotten steadily more powerful, Mobs have as well, so now you cant do MC5/Juggernaut 120/120's or DoY level 2/3 without one, they become a necessity there as well.
think about this, get 5 runners, say a HC tank, a MC Tank, a Pistol PE, an APU and a Rifle spy, now clone them, and let the 2 teams fight, you cant get more equal odds, now give team A a ppu, they are going to win no 2 ways about it, they havent got a slight advantage, not even a steep one, they are going to fucking win, and to me that not right, a PPU should give you an advantage, not a fucking surety (that even a word O_o)
a PPU should give you an advantage, not a fucking suretyTotally agreed.
I don't give a crap about a PPU being killable/unkillable - what fucks up the game is that a single PPU is worth at least 4 of any other character (more if you don't include an APU in that)
so i cant use a better gun than some on else? or better implants? ok ive not got a SA, so if any one with one kills me its an exploit?
imo PPUs fuck it all up atm, if you take PPUs out of the PvP equation it practically balances it's self, but because PPUs have gotten steadily more powerful, Mobs have as well, so now you cant do MC5/Juggernaut 120/120's or DoY level 2/3 without one, they become a necessity there as well.
think about this, get 5 runners, say a HC tank, a MC Tank, a Pistol PE, an APU and a Rifle spy, now clone them, and let the 2 teams fight, you cant get more equal odds, now give team A a ppu, they are going to win no 2 ways about it, they havent got a slight advantage, not even a steep one, they are going to fucking win, and to me that not right, a PPU should give you an advantage, not a fucking surety (that even a word O_o)
Exactly
I fight people who say there good and they bring fuking ppu's into pepper park or MB thats not good its lame. We don't need PPU's for pvp .....
its one of the reasons me and some other old people are quitting tomorrow..
gg
no matter what you say i dont like being killed by skilless idiots because of a fucking exploit.
yeah, let a PPU be unkillable, he just shouldnt be able to make others unkillable
you know what?
on one side you people are all moaning about how EXTREME the ppu is.
yes you`re right but is it right to fight it with another EXTREME like nub buffs?
1 apu 1 ppu on TS ... you get defbuffed and right 1 sec later nub shelter nub heal not even the best ppu on the world can do anything
fuck it i guess KK will listen to the skilless masses anyway like they did on the fuckin hybrids and monsk all the time...nothing will change anyway
This message is hidden because QuickFix is on your ignore list.
think of an inteligent answer, then come try again.
hahaha what a mock, how old are you?
jesus :rolleyes:
you know what?
on one side you people are all moaning about how EXTREME the ppu is.
yes you`re right but is it right to fight it with another EXTREME like nub buffs?
1 apu 1 ppu on TS ... you get defbuffed and right 1 sec later nub shelter nub heal not even the best ppu on the world can do anything
fuck it i guess KK will listen to the skilless masses anyway like they did on the fuckin hybrids and monsk all the time...nothing will change anyway
whaaaa tbh hybribs lol omg don't even wanna go there considering the bless hybirds I have fought :rolleyes:
whaaaa tbh hybribs lol omg don't even wanna go there considering the bless hybirds I have fought :rolleyes:
whaa yes come lets replace 10 overpowerd hybrids with an army over overpowerd pure monks instead of thinking of a good solution of monks !! WAAAH!
:rolleyes:
If I make a character who's purpose it is to stay alive I don't think I'd appreciate
it if some nib (eg. LiL T) makes me 100% useless. For all you dumbasses who think that you should be able to buff yourself before they noob buff you: which do you think is faster to cast, a noob shelter or holy shelter? ffs is all i can say
oh another thing...
afaik and i always got told ... abusing game mechanics = exploit
so if barreling against a wall is an exploit (ceres).. or the safeplaces in mc5 were an exploit.. the psi shield being used to kill monks was an exploit..
can you pls show me a statement of a dev that says "yes we put the tl3 heal for 2 purposes... it should kill monks faster than rare weps can ever do and heal you while lvling!"
yea right... its fucking abusing of game mechanics.. the tl25 shelter or tl3 heals arent ingame to fucking kill people but you use it like that
tbh my clan always fought WELL without nub buffs.. everyone on pluto can confirm that... so why the fuck do you people say you need nub buffs and shit to kill a good ppu?
so many excuses
make S/D self cast only, that way PPUs cant be nib buffed, and PPU stop having such a major sway over PvP...mebbe do the same for heals...tho that might be a bit extreme...mebbe only TL3 heal...
superfresh
15-11-04, 18:39
Well - a PPU can already remove my ATH/AGL points (parashock) and can remove my resists/armour (dmg boost), damage me in stealth (soulcluster), can turn off 92% of the damage I deal (holy shields) and replace one minutes worth of my dealt damage in 5 seconds (holy heal).
Didn't know about the soulcluster thing. Never really used em.
A PPU can't kill you. Not alone anyway. It looks like that in spite of their lack of offense, some players want them to die more easily. They're defensive monsters. It's simply what they do. They shouldn't be sitting ducks.
And if there was a drug for removing TL-3 heal, well then...
By its definition, heal should be a skill, not an affliction.
oh another thing...
afaik and i always got told ... abusing game mechanics = exploit
so if barreling against a wall is an exploit (ceres).. or the safeplaces in mc5 were an exploit.. the psi shield being used to kill monks was an exploit..
can you pls show me a statement of a dev that says "yes we put the tl3 heal for 2 purposes... it should kill monks faster than rare weps can ever do and heal you while lvling!"
yea right... its fucking abusing of game mechanics.. the tl25 shelter or tl3 heals arent ingame to fucking kill people but you use it like that
tbh my clan always fought WELL without nub buffs.. everyone on pluto can confirm that... so why the fuck do you people say you need nub buffs and shit to kill a good ppu?
so many excuses
How long have you been playing do you read the fucking forums?
ITS NOT AN EXPLOIT
its not abusing game mechanics
OMFG!!!! :mad:
/edit why do you think we fucking do it ?
i agree its not an exploit, but it is a little low
How long have you been playing do you read the fucking forums?
ITS NOT AN EXPLOIT
its not abusing game mechanics
OMFG!!!! :mad:
/edit why do you think we fucking do it ?
dude if thats no exploit then hey i can go ingame and fucking shoot trough walls etc to lvl up yea?
its the same shit no matter what you say
oh and i been playing since beta 4 thanks ... and i think you do it because you`re unable to kill a good ppu without that lame shit
you understand?
/e i dont only think it.. i know it...
<-- semtex
if you remember
its not an exploit, you cant shoot through walls to level up because that is a flaw in the game engine, you SHOULDNT be able to shoot through a wall, but S/D is designed to be cast onto other people, whether they want it on them or not
make S/D self cast only, that way PPUs cant be nib buffed, and PPU stop having such a major sway over PvP...mebbe do the same for heals...tho that might be a bit extreme...mebbe only TL3 heal...
some people have the memory of a goldfish, seriously.
how do you plan on doing the ceres caves? how do you plan on doing mc5 with no S/D's?
what would be the point if a PPU can't enhance others defence capabilities? why not stop people from reconstructing weapons too, that way no can cap them, so no one can be overpowered then.
i agree its not an exploit, but it is a little low
so you say the tl3 is intended to be used as the currently best way to kill a good ppu in the game yes?
its meant to be more lethal to a ppu than a antibuff and other rare weps.
you really sure?
dude if thats no exploit then hey i can go ingame and fucking shoot trough walls etc to lvl up yea?
its the same shit no matter what you say
oh and i been playing since beta 4 thanks ... and i think you do it because you`re unable to kill a good ppu without that lame shit
you understand?
/e i dont only think it.. i know it...
<-- semtex
if you remember
Yeah sure you can mate go right a fucking ahead and shoot through them walls exploiting is cool hey you know my PE can fly??
STFU its allready been said this is not exploiting like last year do you make the rules or something?? no then plz shutup
some people have the memory of a goldfish, seriously.
how do you plan on doing the ceres caves? how do you plan on doing mc5 with no S/D's?
what would be the point if a PPU can't enhance others defence capabilities? why not stop people from reconstructing weapons too, that way no can cap them, so no one can be overpowered then. no i think you have the memory of a goldfish, do you know WHY its so hard to do those? because of PPUs being insanly erm...unkillable
@cyclon, no its not intended, but that does mean an exploit, it means an overlook, tl3 are designed to be cast on ther people no matter which way you look at, AoE ISNt designed to shoot throuigh walls, etc
Yeah sure you can mate go right a fucking ahead and shoot through them walls exploiting is cool hey you know my PE can fly??
STFU its allready been said this is not exploiting like last year do you make the rules or something?? no then plz shutup
ok mr smart define me what "exploit" means
and answer the question i asked mkvennar in my previous post
thx
A PPU can't kill you. Not alone anyway. You haven't been meeting the right sort of PPUs then - there are some pure evil fuckers out there :(
it don't matter the creators of the game said so your wrong
/edit we taking saturn PPU's heh they would eat a single APU for breakfast tbh using melee ... :wtf:
no i think you have the memory of a goldfish, do you know WHY its so hard to do those? because of PPUs being insanly erm...unkillable
ffs, PPU's are easy without the lame tactics do you want me tell you how to kill a PPU? seriously?
do i have to teach you?
it don't matter the creators of the game said so your wrong
come on answer the question sherlock
no i think you have the memory of a goldfish, do you know WHY its so hard to do those? because of PPUs being insanly erm...unkillable
@cyclon, no its not intended, but that does mean an exploit, it means an overlook, tl3 are designed to be cast on ther people no matter which way you look at, AoE ISNt designed to shoot throuigh walls, etc
exactly thats what i meant.
just because you dont know how to kill a ppu it doesnt mean its impossible.
what *** bullshit
im so tired of it
come on answer the question sherlock answered to the best ov my ability
@xiphias dude you just jumped straight from PvM to PvP, make your fucking mind up
im not saying its impossible, but like i said, PPUs are a sureity atm not an advantage, thats not how it should be
If I make a character who's purpose it is to stay alive I don't think I'd appreciate
it if some nib (eg. LiL T) makes me 100% useless. For all you dumbasses who think that you should be able to buff yourself before they noob buff you: which do you think is faster to cast, a noob shelter or holy shelter? ffs is all i can say
Same speed, actually. :rolleyes:
And whoever thinks one class should be able to survive 2, 3 or 4 attackers has a serious problem with reality. I agree that no single class should be able to kill a PPU, and it's true for the most part barring extreme differences in skill. But two people should be able to take down any one enemy with teamwork.
come on answer the question sherlock
I allready know what your gonna say but the DEV's and MOD's allready stated its a featurn so shssss!
just to get it straight .. i know ppus are overpowerd and i want them nerfed to ****
i always did .. since they introduced them actually
but "fixing" ppus with nub buffs isnt the right fucking way.
its the easiest one tho.. so i can understand why so many here like it.
I allready know what your gonna say but the DEV's and MOD's allready stated its a featurn so shssss!
:lol:
why you even bother posting anymore?
This thread demonstrates *perfectly* how much the whole PSI framework needs some serious goddamn Theme-Weeking.
*sigh*
Its low, but its not an exploit.
At least thats how i see it.
I usually dont do it, except i run into lone PPUs who want to annoy me.
Not to forget opwars where the last enemy ppu alive keeps running around talking shit although he got zero chance of rezzing someone. If he does that, noob buff are gonna take him down.
If you want PPU spells changed to overriding lower level stuff, ok. But before that nerf at least holy heal foreign cast. And nerf it A LOT.
i think its gone too far now kurai, it all needs a total overhaul tbh
This thread demonstrates *perfectly* how much the whole PSI framework needs some serious goddamn Theme-Weeking.
*sigh*
that should have been done around 1 year ago already :|
This thread demonstrates *perfectly* how much the whole PSI framework needs some serious goddamn Theme-Weeking.
*sigh*
And how a good discussion on game balance can turn into a personal fight.
i think its gone too far now kurai, it all needs a total overhaul tbhWhen I said "serious" I meant like with a fucking chainsaw through the lot :D
Let's, for arguments sake, grab a time machine and go back 2 years - scoop up the dev team and dump them in the present.
Then watch the blood drain from their faces when they see what 24 months worth of accumulated positive feedback loops, sloppy "fixes", unresolved core issues and unforseen side effects have done to the overall game design and user experience.
There'd be tears before bedtime in Hannover, guaranteed.
Disturbed21
15-11-04, 18:53
We all know that the noob buffs were not intended to be a way to take down PPUs, but it doesn't mean it is an exploit. For all of those who think it is an exploit; do a search on the forums for all of the noob buff threads and find where kk replies saying its an exploit.......you will find nothing.
The main problem is only one class has been given the special weapon to deal with Godlike PPUs, so that makes Tanks, PEs and Spies pretty much useless against a PPU. Which is why they resort to noob buffing.
KK needs to deal with the noob buffing but they can't until the PPU is more balanced for the other character classes. Just because a team of APUs can possible take down a PPU doesn't mean the PPU is easily killable and therefore balanced :rolleyes:
@xiphias dude you just jumped straight from PvM to PvP, make your fucking mind up
because what ever you change in the name of pvp ultimately effects pvm perhaps. O_o
:lol:
why you even bother posting anymore?
cos cos.... :(
you gonna make me cry your evil
point is I hate the fact PPU's dominate this game so much and with out them we could not do caves and MC5 but like others have said its the PPU's that made those so powerfull. I have allways thought hybribs would be the way ahead but not the current blessed ones but the HL using ones with normal PE kind of buffs. I my self have never had as much trobble taking them down I'm not a shit PE but not a good but normal ... well a bit more than normal k and there really not that hard to kill!. I think hybrids with tl 3 heal and normal s/d would rock if only they could run cast and stuff thats my thoughts. Bin the ppu its a joke it will never work
cos cos.... :(
you gonna make me cry your evil
point is I hate the fact PPU's dominate this game so much and with out them we could not do caves and MC5 but like others have said its the PPU's that made those so powerfull. I have allways thought hybribs would be the way ahead but not the current blessed ones but the HL using ones with normal PE kind of buffs. I my self have never had as much trobble taking them down I'm not a shit PE but not a good but normal ... well a bit more than normal k and there really not that hard to kill!. I think hybrids with tl 3 heal and normal s/d would rock if only they could run cast and stuff thats my thoughts. Bin the ppu its a joke it will never work
APU hybrids can runcast. I can, and you've fought be before, lilt. ^.^
because what ever you change in the name of pvp ultimately effects pvm perhaps.
That's true, but... The only reason pvm is like it is now is because PPUs were boosted way too much. Reducing PPU power will undoubtely reduce the difficulty of high level mobs.
A PPU can't kill you. Not alone anyway.
A PPU can kill people alone, trust me. All you need is a little bit of imagination.
Although TL3 healing is a pain in the arse, if a PPU is all alone then as a support character, it's their own fault. If a PPU is busy supporting others they generally don't get touched as the enemy are too busy dealing with the people kicking the shit out of them.
If a PPU wishes to be solo then they should take steps in their setup to do that, although, PPU's are generally never solo chars.
Disturbed21
15-11-04, 19:06
because what ever you change in the name of pvp ultimately effects pvm perhaps. O_o
True, but saying you can't nerf PPUs or make PPU spells selfcast only because then noone will be able to level in the hard areas is kind of silly. They increased the mobs damage because of the PPU surely if the nerfed PPUs they would nerf the mobs....eventually :lol:
cos cos.... :(
you gonna make me cry your evil
point is I hate the fact PPU's dominate this game so much and with out them we could not do caves and MC5 but like others have said its the PPU's that made those so powerfull. I have allways thought hybribs would be the way ahead but not the current blessed ones but the HL using ones with normal PE kind of buffs. I my self have never had as much trobble taking them down I'm not a shit PE but not a good but normal ... well a bit more than normal k and there really not that hard to kill!. I think hybrids with tl 3 heal and normal s/d would rock if only they could run cast and stuff thats my thoughts. Bin the ppu its a joke it will never work
we're kinda going around in circles... this game is a team based game,
-would you in reality go into a war without some kind of medic?
-go without something that will enhance your abilities?
-would you go into a war thinking you could solo a tank using an ak47?
No. you would use skills, team work, and the type of weaponery that is_DESIGNED_ for use against a particular target.
APU hybrids can runcast. I can, and you've fought be before, lilt. ^.^
That's true, but... The only reason pvm is like it is now is because PPUs were boosted way too much. Reducing PPU power will undoubtely reduce the difficulty of high level mobs.
Well I rather fight a HL using hybrid than a ppu/apu team infact I love a good fight with hybrid they do more damage than me but! there just like a tanks damage but with more defence but not too much more so they seem balanced. Tanks spys and hybribs using HL though :\ not sure but I think the tank and spy will lose every time cos of no/or shit shelter
Pah you and your noob buffs bring back the spirit mod and I'll kill ppus without noob buffing muhaha! :D
we're kinda going around in circles... this game is a team based game,
-would you in reality go into a war without some kind of medic?
-go without something that will enhance your abilities?
-would you go into a war thinking you could solo a tank using an ak47?
No. you would use skills, team work, and the type of weaponery that is_DESIGNED_ for use against a particular target.
No I would not care tbh being ex army medics are there to remove you form the battle field and keep you alive not make you survive a misslie to the chest :wtf: but what ever
to a certain extent what you change in PvP affects PvM and so on, but the 2 arent actually tied together, you can change one without changing the other, atm the strength of mobs in relation to the rank, in relation to each other is exponential, not linear, make it linear and lower it a little and you remove the need for PPUs
and you dont always use a weapon specifically designed for a purpose, for example the M-82 50 cal sniper rifle is an anti material weapon, used in an anti vehical role and used for detonating explosives and such, but many units press it into an antipersonnel role, using it to shoot through thin walls and such, another is the RPG, an anti tank weapon used predominatly in an anti personnel role, a soldier will improvise what ever he needs and press it into serivce, for example baked bean cans were used to take out Choppers by the Viet cong during Vietnam
I play a PPU and have for ages. I dont have a prob with the n00b buffs thing. It allows people to take down PPU's without needing loads of help or someone to antibuff. Besides, its not as easy as it sounds if you play your PPU properly and keep an eye on your own buffs. I dont see it as an exploit at all. Its all about tactics.
noob buffs are ok. separates the men from the boyz.
Switch-Blade
15-11-04, 19:27
Well Finally you all miss the point, But what the heck all the best people are leaving the game so all you tossers can noob buff and exploit as much as you want. And when your fed up you can leave too end of story.
One thing i will say 90 % of the people i see arguing for noob buffs are from Saturn & Uranus and 90% arguing against it are from Pluto :(
Well Finally you all miss the point, But what the heck all the best people are leaving the game so all you tossers can noob buff and exploit as much as you want. And when your fed up you can leave too end of story.
One thing i will say 90 % of the people i see arguing for noob buffs are from Saturn & Uranus and 90% arguing against it are from Pluto :(
All I can say is grow up you people sound so pathetic like o.m.g its a fucking game and this stuff is called tactics ok?
All I can say is grow up you people sound so pathetic like o.m.g its a fucking game and this stuff is called tactics ok?
a game is only alive as long as people play it..
im not saying nc will die because of nub buffs.. but it will die or at least stay the same small hobby mmo like it is with the current attidute of the comm.
yea n1n3 what am i then?
we're kinda going around in circles... this game is a team based game,
-would you in reality go into a war without some kind of medic?
-go without something that will enhance your abilities?
-would you go into a war thinking you could solo a tank using an ak47?
No. you would use skills, team work, and the type of weaponery that is_DESIGNED_ for use against a particular target.
In reality medics are the most fragile people on a battle field and armies spend immense effort on protecting them, not the other way around. And the soldiers that win are those that use their weapons in the most ingenious way, not those that do everything according to the manual. Special forces all around the world get training in dirty tricks and get rewards for inventiveness, not for marching in lines and following the script all the time. So this analogy is quite flawed.
If there was a war with all-powerful medics in reality and I was involved, I would start by poisoning the medics' medicines, breaking their ability enchancing equipment/drugs and making sure that they can't interfere with the killing of their "customers".
What I can't understand is why noone suggests the obvious solution to the problem with the all-powerful PPUs. Make all higher level ppu spells only castable on other people. That way PPUs will be as hard/easy to kill as anyone else and soldiers will have to spend some effort protecting their healers. Sure, two PPUs will still be powerful because they can buff each other, but they will have much more to think about. Tactics, not attrition then will decide the outcome of battles.
yea n1n3 what am i then?
ur decision
paolo escobar
15-11-04, 19:42
i agree
noob buffs are ok. separates the men from the boyz.
Sure, boyz play with little spells, men with real weapons.
noob buffs are ok. separates the men from the boyz.
I'll have to agree with that.
I'll have to agree with that.
i know you do.. it suprises me to hear that from n1n3 tho. always repsected you and thought youd know how to kill a ppu without that stuff...
oh well i guess youd never know.
:rolleyes:
Where's my fucking violin? The tears are flooding.
Noob buffing is one of the main reasons I have a capped PPU, DS'd, that hasn't been logged in for months.
Do I think noob buffs are an exploit? No. Do I hate people who noob buff? No. I dislike it because it's not fun. It's yet another example of piss poor game design. If noob buffing is needed to balance PPUs then this is yet more evidence that the class needs a rethink. PPUs should not be immortal, but they also should not be a pain in the fucking ass to play. Let's say CS was 2x as powerful as it is now, and lets say KK use the 'noob buff' approach to fixing the problem.
Noob buff approach: let other chars reload the Tanks CS with wood and milky rens!
Noob buffs just suck to that level. Lazy shitty approach to fixing a problem, just like removing all backpacks or adding spirit mods. Frustrating your paying customers is NOT a valid way to fix problems :mad:
Where's my fucking violin? The tears are flooding.
you sad because im leaving ? aww :eek:
No, the whole "I'm dissapointed" act was making me drowsy, so I felt like crying.
No, the whole "I'm dissapointed" act was making me drowsy, so I felt like crying.
sorry... thanks for info tho
I love keeping people in the loop.
I read the first page of this thread and that was enough. Same ignorant bs as always.
Noob buffing is an exploit, but I guess kk doesn't want to spend the time to think of a proper way to balance ppu's, so we're stuck with it. That's all there is to say about it.
Balancing the ppu is not so simple as making him weaker defensively. Can you imagine what would happen if the ppu was killable by one person? In every single team fight involving a ppu, the ppu will be targeted first and taken out as quickly as possible. There's nothing you could do to stop it, noone except the ppu can aide/protect teamates. So basicly ppu's will be shut out of combat, unless you bring lots of ppu's and all they do is cover each other's back. This was already starting to happen back when we had overpowered spirit mods. Spies had a field day taking out ppu's left and right.
To really balance ppu's you need to spread their responsiblities, give other classes/professions some of their jobs. For example removing the ppu's defenses means someone else on the team needs the ability to protect the ppu, like the Tank. There's no reason why spies couldn't gain some medic abilities, with gadgets. Then focus the ppu on something, like healing/reviving, offensive debuffs, or defensive buffs, or team support. Not all of these, just one or two!
Honestly right now PPU's are more joat then PE's are. The PPU has more abilities then all the other classes combined, and has way more responsibilities. Combine that with having the most vulnerability to bugs, the hardest to level, generaly most hated by other players, and you've got one messed up class.
Switch-Blade
15-11-04, 20:23
Hey Chumble we have never agreed on Much, But i can agree there.
One more Question if i may .......
If the game team came online and posted that they never ment for noob spells to be used in the way they are how many of you would stop noob buffing.Or consider leaving the game. Or would you go away and think of another way of killing PPU's. All you do now is use whats available which is at best dubious as a fair tactic.
Switch-Blade
15-11-04, 20:26
Well Said Carinth (your preaching unfortunatly will go unheard or be flamed)
always repsected you and thought youd know how to kill a ppu without that stuff...
Can you please explain to me how we are supposed to kill PPUs without newb buffs? Oh, maybe 6 APUs might have a chance. Well what about any other class? None of them have antibuff ability.....so basically you could have 50 non-apu players trying to take down one PPU and not be able to do it. So why does using newb buffs demonstrate an apparent 'lack' of skill as you state so much? It would appear to me that the people with a 'lack' of skill would be the PPUs who think its prefectly fine to have god mode. Hmmm, sorry sweethearts, you DONT get godmode.
When I op fight on my melee tank the first thing I do is run to an APU, newb heal them, shock, and kill. Do they ever fight back? No, they run around like a chicken with its head cut off. They panic because their is no chance of godmode with a holy heal. When I see an enemy with a holy heal running, what do I do? I just look for another target. That is sad, and I shouldn't have to do that.
So if newb buffs make you mad, why not bitch about the acutal problem, which would be PPUs themselves and their unbalanced spells. Stop whining about the side effects of the problem. Stop whining when people try to adapt to an imbalance. I can see it right now. All these PPUs finally get their way, and KK changes it to self-cast overides foreign cast. Do you think all these newb buff whiners will turn around and make threads about balancing their class? Lemme think, NO. Decent/cylon/etc. I am looking at you. If KK gave you godmode, would you have the balls to give it up to make the game fair for everyone? Somehow I get the inkling you wouldn't.
Switch-Blade
15-11-04, 20:37
Can you please explain to me how we are supposed to kill PPUs without newb buffs? Oh, maybe 6 APUs might have a chance. Well what about any other class? None of them have antibuff ability.....so basically you could have 50 non-apu players trying to take down one PPU and not be able to do it. So why does using newb buffs demonstrate an apparent 'lack' of skill as you state so much? It would appear to me that the people with a 'lack' of skill would be the PPUs who think its prefectly fine to have god mode. Hmmm, sorry sweethearts, you DONT get godmode.
When I op fight on my melee tank the first thing I do is run to an APU, newb heal them, shock, and kill. Do they ever fight back? No, they run around like a chicken with its head cut off. They panic because their is no chance of godmode with a holy heal. When I see an enemy with a holy heal running, what do I do? I just look for another target. That is sad, and I shouldn't have to do that.
So if newb buffs make you mad, why not bitch about the acutal problem, which would be PPUs themselves and their unbalanced spells. Stop whining about the side effects of the problem. Stop whining when people try to adapt to an imbalance. I can see it right now. All these PPUs finally get their way, and KK changes it to self-cast overides foreign cast. Do you think all these newb buff whiners will turn around and make threads about balancing their class? Lemme think, NO. Decent/cylon/etc. I am looking at you. If KK gave you godmode, would you have the balls to give it up to make the game fair for everyone? Somehow I get the inkling you wouldn't.
All this tells me is you have shiitty apu's the biggest problem taking ppu's down is too many people trying at once.
All this tells me is you have shiitty apu's the biggest problem taking ppu's down is too many people trying at once.
PAIN on Terra? Ok. It has nothing to do with skill.
Can you please explain to me how we are supposed to kill PPUs without newb buffs? Oh, maybe 6 APUs might have a chance. Well what about any other class? None of them have antibuff ability.....so basically you could have 50 non-apu players trying to take down one PPU and not be able to do it. So why does using newb buffs demonstrate an apparent 'lack' of skill as you state so much? It would appear to me that the people with a 'lack' of skill would be the PPUs who think its prefectly fine to have god mode. Hmmm, sorry sweethearts, you DONT get godmode.
When I op fight on my melee tank the first thing I do is run to an APU, newb heal them, shock, and kill. Do they ever fight back? No, they run around like a chicken with its head cut off. They panic because their is no chance of godmode with a holy heal. When I see an enemy with a holy heal running, what do I do? I just look for another target. That is sad, and I shouldn't have to do that.
So if newb buffs make you mad, why not bitch about the acutal problem, which would be PPUs themselves and their unbalanced spells. Stop whining about the side effects of the problem. Stop whining when people try to adapt to an imbalance. I can see it right now. All these PPUs finally get their way, and KK changes it to self-cast overides foreign cast. Do you think all these newb buff whiners will turn around and make threads about balancing their class? Lemme think, NO. Decent/cylon/etc. I am looking at you. If KK gave you godmode, would you have the balls to give it up to make the game fair for everyone? Somehow I get the inkling you wouldn't.
2 apus, melee tank and a ppu can easily kill a _GOOD_ ppu,
PPU damage boosts enemy PPU
1st APU antibuffs enemy PPU
2nd APU spams enemy PPU with holy lightning
Melee tank spams with thunderbolt.
Now, my brother can tell you this, ANYONE can solo a not so good, medium PPU, without noob buffing.
hehe nib buffs are annoyin
Antibuff may have a big bright indication but when your shelters flashin in ya face, fire is covering your screen it gets hard to see past it all for Anti Buffs.
My apu anti buffs at a pretty nice distance so most ppus dont even see me doing it or hear the noise of it they just get stripped and crouching next to a corpse and doing it lookin like you ressin = teh win :D.
As for rebuffing against it i went to a war last night where just every f'er on the enmy side who wasnt apu/ppu was tl 3 healing and even pe's were running around purely to shelter cast why the apus smashed everything with nib shelters, add to that casting bugs etc....
Shelter should be the highest shelter going, pe's will be pretty decent with it and Ppus can cast a weaker version of it on others whilst their own remains pretty strong, adding some defense but not extremes, also providing buff 3's and holy heals.....
ahh the days of hybs and few ppus lol.... them were the battles
2 apus, melee tank and a ppu can easily kill a _GOOD_ ppu,
PPU damage boosts enemy PPU
1st APU antibuffs enemy PPU
2nd APU spams enemy PPU with holy lightning
Melee tank spams with thunderbolt.
That's how it should be. But it takes.. 4? to kill a single person. That might seem right to a PPU, but think about the big picture. That same team could take out a group of maybe 15 other players who don't have a PPU. Is that balanced? No.
And actually.. 2 apu hybrids can easilly kill a good ppu. :-P
That's how it should be. But it takes.. 4? to kill a single person. That might seem right to a PPU, but think about the big picture. That same team could take out a group of maybe 15 other players who don't have a PPU. Is that balanced? No.
yes, I will admit the PPU is a difference maker, but almost every clan has a PPU.
and that little team is quite potent, but with 1 PPU in that team of 15, they should be able to kick the shit out of that little team of 4, instead of 2 apus, you have 8 apus, 4 melee tanks, and (insert extra members here)...
That's how it should be. But it takes.. 4? to kill a single person. That might seem right to a PPU, but think about the big picture. That same team could take out a group of maybe 15 other players who don't have a PPU. Is that balanced? No.
And actually.. 2 apu hybrids can easilly kill a good ppu. :-P
If you lower the number by much more then it'll be so easy to kill a ppu that they will be specificly targeted first in every fight and killed within the first few seconds. Don't deny it, that's the best tactic. The only reason ppu's aren't attacked is because we're so tough to kill. It makes more sense to kill the ppu's team and then chase the ppu off. If the ppu wasn't so tough to kill, he'd be targeted first in every single fight.
You need to decide what the purpose of the ppu is before you start balancing them. What's the point in a team support character that is killed at the start of combat? Are ppu's going to be relegated to pre fight support? Buff up the team then run away/hide?
Everyone is quick to suggest ways to weaken the ppu, but then they're up in arms if you suggest making the ppu's life easier or fixing problems with the class. Weakening is definintly needed, but so is boosting. You must keep the class fun to play or else we'll be just like tradeskillers. Everyone dependant on them, but noone wants to play them.
EDIT:
this seems useless . . . .
2 apus, melee tank and a ppu can easily kill a _GOOD_ ppu, wow, how annoying, that you need _four_(a ppu included) people to kill one....
and where are spys / pes?
Dargeshaad
15-11-04, 21:34
wow, how annoying, that you need _four_(a ppu included) people to kill one....
and where are spys / pes?
I guess there's so few PEs around that people actually forgot what they can do fx DB just as the PPU in that equation, as well as do dmg when done casting DB
wow, how annoying, that you need _four_(a ppu included) people to kill one....
and where are spys / pes?
yes its so annoying to only be able to kill a class that gives up so much to be able take this amount of punishment. This was meant as an extreme, there is only a handful of PPU's in the game that can handle this, most PPU's will die to 1/2 people
and yes... i forgot the damage boosting PE... thank you Darge. So ineffect,you don't even need another PPU to kill the target.
Disturbed21
15-11-04, 22:12
If you lower the number by much more then it'll be so easy to kill a ppu that they will be specificly targeted first in every fight and killed within the first few seconds. Don't deny it, that's the best tactic. The only reason ppu's aren't attacked is because we're so tough to kill. It makes more sense to kill the ppu's team and then chase the ppu off. If the ppu wasn't so tough to kill, he'd be targeted first in every single fight.
I disagree. If a PPU is easier to kill, yes he would be high on the "to kill" list but he still wouldn't be as easy to kill as say a spy. If 3-4 ppl run past all the damage dealers to try and kill the PPU first they would be dropped pretty quickly, plus it would leave their own PPU unprotected. And if you let the enemy team kill your PPUs that quickly then you weren't protecting them, thus it was your own fault.
Imo the end of the fight shouldn't consist of 4+ damage dealers chasing a PPU around trying to kill them in vain. Once all the damage dealers drop, the PPU should be fairly vulnerable and they should have to run their asses off to the gr and hope they don't die. Currently they run around and laugh while several ppl try to kill them.
If the PPU was much weaker it would require different tactics it wouldn't mean they would have no purpose. *shrug*
Because it's perfectly okay to do so. It's not exploiting. The game allows you to do it.
the game allows you to barrel through the doors in ceres
the game allows you to dupe money
the game allows you to dupe items
the game allows you to get on the highest mountainridge
the game allows you to crash so you can run through walls
the game allows you to noobbuff
what do all these have in common?
THEYRE EXPLOITS !
im getting really fed up with these stupid gms who think they know it all but havent played the game in over 2 years, if ever
ive reported a gm a few days ago who allowed certain ppl to abuse an exploit while forbidding others
what did they do about it?
absolutely nothing, not a goddamn thing
to those noobs using tl3 heals and tl25 shelters to kill ppl:
you suck, get lost, youre better off playing tetris coz you cant do shit in a pvp mmorpg
im usually a nice person keeping my more insulting ideas to myself, but this game and its 12yo community has taken the piss lately, not the mention the so called gm staff
ps: no i didnt get killed by noobbuffs, my char is setup to counter them, im just pissed off whenever i see crap like this
the game allows you to barrel through the doors in ceres
the game allows you to dupe money
the game allows you to dupe items
the game allows you to get on the highest mountainridge
the game allows you to crash so you can run through walls
the game allows you to noobbuff
what do all these have in common?
THEYRE EXPLOITS !
im getting really fed up with these stupid gms who think they know it all but havent played the game in over 2 years, if ever
ive reported a gm a few days ago who allowed certain ppl to abuse an exploit while forbidding others
what did they do about it?
absolutely nothing, not a goddamn thing
to those noobs using tl3 heals and tl25 shelters to kill ppl:
you suck, get lost, youre better off playing tetris coz you cant do shit in a pvp mmorpg
im usually a nice person keeping my more insulting ideas to myself, but this game and its 12yo community has taken the piss lately, not the mention the so called gm staff
ps: no i didnt get killed by noobbuffs, my char is setup to counter them, im just pissed off whenever i see crap like this
<3
:)
-To use game mechanics in such a way other than it is intended use,
-To use something to get an advantage over another player,
By this definition Damage Boost is an exploit.
Also, who says that's not part of intended game mechanics, no official response has yet been issued so it would be unwise to assume it's not intended to be used as such. It's merely a strategically strong tactic to use vs a class that would otherwise be undefeatable in a 2v1 situation.
I absolutely hate it when people use this tactic against me but I salute them for being skilled/perceptive enough to land heal right as mine wears off PLUS being able to do enough dmg to get through my sanctum and his noob heal.
I lived through a spy with healing light and a tank with cursed soul with noob heal on due to sanctum.
I think this tactic is absolutely legit, while I don't employ it myself I encourage all to use it otherwise everyone I fight 1v1 sees a ppu, gets discouraged and runs away in terror.
At least if they do this they have a chance to kill me and stick around.
I would like kk or a dev to come on to this post and say if they intended tl3 heal and noob shelter to be used on other people in this way or not? And if it’s not to be used in this way, what are they going to do about it?
Because I have played this game since retail and have never moans at kk but this game is really starting to piss me off, because kk dose not listen to us.
The only reason some clans are good on terra are because they use noob buffs to kill not just the ppu's but they noob buff the tank's the apu's, pe's this is uncalled for and has ruined pvp for me.
Op wars are about fighting and having fun. But also about organization and good team play, not having some kiddies running round noob buffing the other clan because his clan is no good in pvp.
Let see ppu are hard to kill? No systemshock on Pluto never noob buffed and we killed ppu very easy.
By this definition Damage Boost is an exploit.
I think this tactic is absolutely legit, while I don't employ it myself I encourage all to use it otherwise everyone I fight 1v1 sees a ppu, gets discouraged and runs away in terror.
At least if they do this they have a chance to kill me and stick around.
Consider yourself lucky, everyone and their mother attacks me. Many even continue to do so after its obvious they can't kill me. A single solitary spy without spirit mod will attack me and not give up until I've hit them with my sc.
Maybe you're used to noob buffing, but I resent it. The ability for a pe to render my specialization void is stupid. Why did I spend so long specializing in defense when a noob ppu or pe can render it pointless? Here I am the mighty ppu with a noob shelter stuck on him! I doubt you'd like it if a monk could throw a street rifle at a spy and force the spy to use that rifle for a few seconds. Or if a pe could throw a plasma cannon at a tank and force the tank to use it instead of his cs. That's how it would feel, stupid and fustrating.
While you're right that we can't read the dev's minds, it's pretty obvious that damage boost was designed to weaken the target. It is in noway obvious that shelter was meant to deny the target from using their better defenses. Plus the more offensive ppu spells, dmg boost and para, are counted as weapons and not allowed in safe zones. Shelter is not considered a weapon and so can be casted in safe zones.
To be honest I don't consider n00b buffing as an exploit. Everyone can do it, it doesn't require any special knowledge and its piss easy to avoid if you aren't stupid. Even with a n00b shelter on I can keep myself alive long enough for either me to get away (I run a little slower than melee tanks), it to wear off or for clan members to take the pressure off me.
If you see someone antibuff/shield you, start running around like a lunatic. Seeing as HAB/Anti Shield take longer to cast than a shelter, it is impossible for both to be cast on you at the same time and both to work. Its all about timing. If someone HABs you, run around with a Holy Heal on yourself and time when you need to reapply shelter.
And in regard to noob buffing non-PPUs, if they are stupid enough to not be fully buffed themselves by whatever means they deserve a n00b buff.
Generally in an OP war it is hard to pull off a successful n00b buff when everyone is running about, and if you get n00b buffed when you are being attacked by a small group, a decent PPU would be able to survive without trouble.
Same speed, actually. :rolleyes:
And whoever thinks one class should be able to survive 2, 3 or 4 attackers has a serious problem with reality. I agree that no single class should be able to kill a PPU, and it's true for the most part barring extreme differences in skill. But two people should be able to take down any one enemy with teamwork.
suppose it depends on if you capped it anyway..... but you hardly have enough psi pool to try to spam yourself with holy shelter (especially if your helping someone else) while a noob shelter can be spammed on the PPU without runnning out of psi pool. And no there isn't anything wrong with my logic because people still have debuffs don't they :rolleyes: . Funny how they call it a shelter and not "dA hoLY PpU KiLla"
If you lower the number by much more then it'll be so easy to kill a ppu that they will be specificly targeted first in every fight and killed within the first few seconds. Don't deny it, that's the best tactic. The only reason ppu's aren't attacked is because we're so tough to kill. It makes more sense to kill the ppu's team and then chase the ppu off. If the ppu wasn't so tough to kill, he'd be targeted first in every single fight.
Sorry, you win! You're right, I do target PPUs first every fight. It makes life interesting when their ppu dies because of overconfidence.
You need to decide what the purpose of the ppu is before you start balancing them. What's the point in a team support character that is killed at the start of combat? Are ppu's going to be relegated to pre fight support? Buff up the team then run away/hide?
Everyone is quick to suggest ways to weaken the ppu, but then they're up in arms if you suggest making the ppu's life easier or fixing problems with the class. Weakening is definintly needed, but so is boosting. You must keep the class fun to play or else we'll be just like tradeskillers. Everyone dependant on them, but noone wants to play them.
Make shields self-cast only. That'd make life easier for the ppu and help out overall. ^.^
§FS§Red Wing
16-11-04, 05:39
You all talk about taking down PPUs only an i know there no ways to take a PPU down without an APU. Should be reviewed.
Pistol Spy with xbow will do as well.
Asurmen Spec Op
16-11-04, 07:26
This thread makes me sad :( I dont like noob buffing, I did do it once yes, but I stopped.
I just avoid PPUs both friend and fo
I dont play the game to win, I play to have fun(wich doesnt involve winning for me) PPUs bug my whole fun and without them PVM would be more solo capable, but they are here and Im sure KK would loose to many for removing them. PPUs do need some boosts however, although I dont like PARA/DB/soul cluster since they arent verry PASSIVE!!!!!1 but, thats just the opinion of the PE loving wacko who everyone thinks should get an apu(god I hear that to much! death to the monks :mad: )
Tl3 noob buffing will always be in the game because Im the rare type of person who doesnt play to win and feal special, Im fine if I loose its a game and ill do better next time, some people however just want to win, and will do anything to do so(this includes noob buffing or a 2to 1 ratio of ppu that a certain clan on saturn has*wistles*). Maybe if people get off the I must win thought the noob buffing will be gone and skill will rain suppream... but its not gonna happen
sorry for my babling Im kinda tired and yeah... not like my opinion is wanted on teh forums anyway :p
Asurmen
Fallen Angels
"The real CA died with NC2"
Make shields self-cast only. That'd make life easier for the ppu and help out overall. ^.^
Im sure it would.. Man Id love to play my apu then.. can they tradeskill successfuly? Anyone remember Tony Suprano on pluto bout a year back.. A constructing monk.. Maybe all apu's could become the next tradeskill class dont ya think? :rolleyes:
Im mean yeah, an apu can survive one on one but, in an op war situation without buffs hes a dead man, hes no stealth to run and hide.. medi-kits are too slow.
Fuck self buffs, APU/PPU are to halfs to a class built to work together.. strong they be. BUT! a good tank/ppu team > an apu/ppu team ;)
2 apus, melee tank and a ppu can easily kill a _GOOD_ ppu,
PPU damage boosts enemy PPU
1st APU antibuffs enemy PPU
2nd APU spams enemy PPU with holy lightning
Melee tank spams with thunderbolt.
Now, my brother can tell you this, ANYONE can solo a not so good, medium PPU, without noob buffing.
IMO, that has to be lamer then any combination of noob buffing an enemy ppu. What, the tank now acts like a city guard, constantly parashocking the ppu, leaving him/her now chance what-so-ever to run away. Hell at least with a tl 25 shelter on you have a chance of surviving, cause (unlike many people believe), being "noob" buffed is not the end of the world. Remember that video (sorry I forgot your name) made, with Cannings tl 25ing him. He took at least 8 HL's after he got antibuffed - without a Holy Heal on.
No the problem is not noob buffing, it's the para that kills you...
Dargeshaad
16-11-04, 11:49
Im sure it would.. Man Id love to play my apu then.. can they tradeskill successfuly? Anyone remember Tony Suprano on pluto bout a year back.. A constructing monk.. Maybe all apu's could become the next tradeskill class dont ya think? :rolleyes:
Im mean yeah, an apu can survive one on one but, in an op war situation without buffs hes a dead man, hes no stealth to run and hide.. medi-kits are too slow.
Fuck self buffs, APU/PPU are to halfs to a class built to work together.. strong they be. BUT! a good tank/ppu team > an apu/ppu team ;)
You know it's actually possible to have enough ppu for shelter and still cap (or close to) a HL with psi3? You'll still get that overpowered holy heal so apus will still be in the top dmg wise and be able to survive decently
IMO, that has to be lamer then any combination of noob buffing an enemy ppu. What, the tank now acts like a city guard, constantly parashocking the ppu, leaving him/her now chance what-so-ever to run away. Hell at least with a tl 25 shelter on you have a chance of surviving, cause (unlike many people believe), being "noob" buffed is not the end of the world. Remember that video (sorry I forgot your name) made, with Cannings tl 25ing him. He took at least 8 HL's after he got antibuffed - without a Holy Heal on.
No the problem is not noob buffing, it's the para that kills you...
then i guess he wasn't damage boosted, and he only had 1 apu on him, yes i agree that PPU's can take _some_ damage with a noob buff, but thats not really the point, just because its not as bad as it seems, doesn't make it any less wrong.
Why is that lame? its an very effective way to kill a _good_ PPU, and your not using things like noob buffs / heals. Notice in a later post i explained that the team i proposed was an_extreme_. That team would only be neccesary, against the elite line of PPU, most PPU's would go down to 1/2 players.
then i guess he wasn't damage boosted, and he only had 1 apu on him, yes i agree that PPU's can take _some_ damage with a noob buff, but thats not really the point, just because its not as bad as it seems, doesn't make it any less wrong.
Why is that lame? its an very effective way to kill a _good_ PPU, and your not using things like noob buffs / heals. Notice in a later post i explained that the team i proposed was an_extreme_. That team would only be neccesary, against the elite line of PPU, most PPU's would go down to 1/2 players.
how many 1337 ppu's do u think there are in ur opinion desc cus i remember a post about this a long time a go by a old vet where he said it was only a few ppu's that made the difference and by these people being so good it made the class seem overpowered.
The example given was take a group of 4 people and put them with "insert name here" who u would class a very good ppu (imo there aren't a large number that i would consider very good)
Then take the same group of people and put them with a average ppu (lots to choose from)
now the second group could be beaten by a group of people without even a ppu the first group however most likely could take out a group 2 or 3 times it size.
The way i look at it is y penalise a class because some people have excelled at it. But this is way off the noob buffing subject
KRIMINAL99
16-11-04, 16:07
i'am talking about noob buffs, why do people in general think its ok to "exploit" when casting noob heals, shelters onto a ppu to kill him.
Definition of an exploit:
-To use game mechanics in such a way other than it is intended use,
-To use something to get an advantage over another player,
So in essence, casting noob buffs, heals on a ppu "IS" an exploit. By which they are using a tactic which wasn't intended for people to use.
Problem with your #1 reasoning:
You have no clue (nor does anyone but the people who designed the game which aren't even the people in charge of banning for exploits- which is retarded btw) what was intended. You can make a case that anything probably was intended and any whiny sore loser can make a case that something wasn't intended. Reasons for doing either way can be:
-Game Balance (which is highly debatable)
-Realism (Which people often argue one way in ignorance of reality)
-Going with the roleplay theme of the game (Like realism argument except it can be any arbitrary scifi theme attribute that the person arguing feels the game has)
-Does not logically go with other things in the game (probably the best argument but is still not 100% and can be argued against using all other arguments. good example: item duping when there are tradeskills that you have to put skill points in to make items.)
-Cliche Exploit (something that is an exploit in other games.. this is not a sure indicator that is an exploit in THIS game and also what was the reason it was an exploit in the first game?)
One can at least hope, that with the absolutely rediculous amount of defense that PPU's have that it was MEANT to be the case that you could lvl 3 buff them to be able to kill them.
Problem with your #2 reasoning:
Everything in the entire game becomes an exploit under this definition. I use a gun to gain an advantage over other players by shooting them with it. I use a doy bomber to gain an advantage over other players. This definition is synonomous with saying that anything that allows someone to beat me is an exploit, because its application is only limited by your motivation to use it.
If you think it magically changes if you put "unfair" in there your wrong. Then unfair has to be further described, you can't just say your common sense definition of unfair because
A) Other people can't use your subconsious definition of unfair, because they don't have your subconsious (in reality there is no such thing as common sense at best it is the default view of an issue that MOST people have when they are completely ignorant of that issue)
B) You are probably not holding the most advanced view of fairness and people would not agree with you. (the view that takes into account all arguments and still holds as the best view) In fact unless you have spent a decent amount of time thinking about it your view of fairness is probably heavily biased for you. Of course if your the company in charge of the game your ignorance and/or bias becomes irrelevant because you can force people to take your view of fairness as long as they choose to hang around. (although that might not be for long if your view of fairness is considered really unfair by many) But then of course Point A) still holds IE you have to specify your view of fairness. As a student of ethics and philosophy I can tell you right now the best viable way to do this is just to specify EXACTLY what things you consider exploits and what you do not. Because for various reasons your view will most likely not be clear to other people such that they can use it to judge actions.
C) Its highly likely that the most advanced view of fairness is that all is fair, therefore the concept of "unfair" becomes non existant. If you want to argue about this I will do so.
because kk dose not listen to us.
If they would do i bet it all would be worse, because of that ..... lobby running around on this forums.....
Problem with your #1 reasoning:
You have no clue (nor does anyone but the people who designed the game which aren't even the people in charge of banning for exploits- which is retarded btw) what was intended. You can make a case that anything probably was intended and any whiny sore loser can make a case that something wasn't intended. Reasons for doing either way can be:
-Game Balance (which is highly debatable)
-Realism (Which people often argue one way in ignorance of reality)
-Going with the roleplay theme of the game (Like realism argument except it can be any arbitrary scifi theme attribute that the person arguing feels the game has)
-Does not logically go with other things in the game (probably the best argument but is still not 100% and can be argued against using all other arguments. good example: item duping when there are tradeskills that you have to put skill points in to make items.)
-Cliche Exploit (something that is an exploit in other games.. this is not a sure indicator that is an exploit in THIS game and also what was the reason it was an exploit in the first game?)
One can at least hope, that with the absolutely rediculous amount of defense that PPU's have that it was MEANT to be the case that you could lvl 3 buff them to be able to kill them.
Problem with your #2 reasoning:
Everything in the entire game becomes an exploit under this definition. I use a gun to gain an advantage over other players by shooting them with it. I use a doy bomber to gain an advantage over other players. This definition is synonomous with saying that anything that allows someone to beat me is an exploit, because its application is only limited by your motivation to use it.
If you think it magically changes if you put "unfair" in there your wrong. Then unfair has to be further described, you can't just say your common sense definition of unfair because
A) Other people can't use your subconsious definition of unfair, because they don't have your subconsious (in reality there is no such thing as common sense at best it is the default view of an issue that MOST people have when they are completely ignorant of that issue)
B) You are probably not holding the most advanced view of fairness and people would not agree with you. (the view that takes into account all arguments and still holds as the best view) In fact unless you have spent a decent amount of time thinking about it your view of fairness is probably heavily biased for you. Of course if your the company in charge of the game your ignorance and/or bias becomes irrelevant because you can force people to take your view of fairness as long as they choose to hang around. (although that might not be for long if your view of fairness is considered really unfair by many) But then of course Point A) still holds IE you have to specify your view of fairness. As a student of ethics and philosophy I can tell you right now the best viable way to do this is just to specify EXACTLY what things you consider exploits and what you do not. Because for various reasons your view will most likely not be clear to other people such that they can use it to judge actions.
C) Its highly likely that the most advanced view of fairness is that all is fair, therefore the concept of "unfair" becomes non existant. If you want to argue about this I will do so.
I'm sure a spell called a 'Shelter' would be intended to use as a defence.
I'd also rather not comment on what kind of person it would take to misunderstand those definitions (or try on purpose to misunderstand them)...
O_o
EDIT: I would also like to say that most of the people who are pro noob buffing don't play a ppu/never have played a ppu
Clownst0pper
16-11-04, 17:40
It takes a great deal of skill to noob buff actually.
Come on decent, youve been playing long enough to avoid being noob buffed.
Its a perfectly viable way to kill PPU's as there already too hard as a healer class.
avoid... lol
you people dont have a clue its so sad actually
i say it for the 1000th time ... even nc`s best ppu cant avoid a good apu / ppu team nub buffing him in the middle of an op fight IF he doesnt know that the 2 players are planing it..
if they`re on TS and they have good timing they can debuff and nub shelter you faster than you could recast the fucking shelter once you saw your sd gone
and all that while supporting a team..
we arent talking about 1o1 situations ... ofc its no fucking problem to run from a few people in pp3 ... omfg
its all about op wars and 10+vs10+ fights where you simply cant overview so easily who`s nub buffing / debuffing etc if you want to keep your team alive and kill the enemy.
thx.
.hack//sign
16-11-04, 18:38
a decent setup tied with a decently skilled ppu shouldnt have to worry about noob buffs.just memorize how fast ur casts are(holy heal sanc helps aswell) o_O
Clownst0pper
16-11-04, 18:55
The only noob buff which causes a PPU problems is the shelter.
But personally, if they have a sanctum up and there heal going, they still should survive 2 minutes.
And really, why is it descent you feel you still should be able to survive 10 people attacking you?
why is it descent you feel you still should be able to survive 10 people attacking you?
Because he can untill hes noob buffed ;)
I could ask u why as a team u feel u need to noob buff to kill a ppu? Ur trying to imply he sucks - where quite frankly having to use noob buffs always implies to me u or ur team sucks.
So back to the point just because some guy can just make the random decision to say whether something is an exploit or not lets look at what the game neocron is supposed to be.
Neocron - PvP game
Neocron - team based game - I know a lotta ppl dont like this but KK decided that at the beginning of retail so thats what we have.
PvP games - anyone who plays a pvp game wants to have skill as the deciding factor as to who wins - thats why cheaters are banned and if they are not banned ppl stop playing the game. Yea I know there is char setup involved here, but 2 tanks - same or similar setup - dueling, the player with more skill will win.
Team based - means u need diff classes to do diff roles - its like going to a Tribes clannie without a specialised capper - u wont win - u go without ppu's to an op war - u wont win. Like it this way or not, thats a decision kk made.
PvP in this game is centred around op wars also a decision of kk so we deal with that.
I hate noob buffing because take the skill factor our of the pvp - lets not pretend ppl are only noob buffing ppus - on my apu im constantly noob healed by melee tanks, they run up to u try to tl3 heal u and then start attacking. Casting a noob heal on someone is as hard to do as casting a fa on someone, its not skill being used, simply cheap tactics to make up for lack of skill. If he was not able to noob heal me it would be a straight contest between his skill and mine and his teams skill and my teams skill. As soon as he casts that tl3 heal the balance is shifted massively in his/their favour.
Ppus are honestly not that hard to kill with well co-ordinated teamwork by apus. If ur team sucks and ur tanks get in the way of ur apus or u miss-time ur debuffs/attacks, then yea u will fail, but u deserve to coz ur teamwork sucks. If im attacking a ppu and i debuff and thereafter i miss a couple of hls on him, its not ppus that are overpowered, but my aim that needs working on, if my aim is good and i hit him everytime most ppus will die. I never say omg noob heal or noob shelter him so i can miss a few hits and still kill him.
You should not be able to use noob heals/shelters to make up for lack of skill and teamwork - given that this is a pvp and team- based game. If u took noob buffing/healing out of the game - you would be allowing the ppl with more skill to have the advantage they should have. Yea u can say everyone can do it and they can - but to those of us who saw kk take out the "bug" where u cast shelter and then a heal instantly kill someone and also take out foreign cast psi shield, its logical that this should go as well. All it would do is allow those with more skill to win more and thats how it should be.
If u wanna go round killing everyone on ur solo char then I suggest u go lobby kk to change the game back to they way it was in beta days and early retail before they brought in the teamwork changes (patch 160 if i remember right). That is really a completely different issue.
One thing about mobs - i remember in beta (long b4 ppus ever existed) going into the chaos caves on my tank lol - ouch - no one went in those caves - one guy I remember was famous for killing the chaos queen - he was a hybrid :/ KK made the teamwork changes that affected every class and then after that brought in places like mc5. Its an entirely different game now I doubt they could go back even if they wanted to.
if they stopped people psi shielding other people then i don't know why they wouldn't stop noob buffing
Generally (I use that catiously) when a PPU is noob buffed that means they are either alone because they are just travelling alone, or alone because all the rest of their team have died. Now, as a support char if they are alone because all of their team has died then their team has effectively lost and now with rez cast time so long, it's time to take your bat and ball home. IF you decide however to dance around playing god etc and then get noob buffed and killed, that is the choice you have paid. I am not saying it's massively acceptable but it happens and is a viable tactic to get rid of PPU's who are taking the piss.
However, if you are alone because...your just travelling alone then it may be a little harsh to get noob buffed and attacked but hey, it's a dangourous world, shit happens.
As I already said, the only reason noob buffs are still in is because kk hasn't set aside the time to impliment a proper way to balance ppus. Psi shield is a perfect example, the use of it offensively is *exactly* the same as using shelter offensively. However psi shield majorly crippled monks, which is why it was promptly fixed. Noob buffs aren't nearly as bad, so kk put them on the backburner until they have time to fix it.
There shouldn't be any argument guys, ppu's do not want to have noob buffs removed because we want to be invincible. We want them removed because they shouldn't be used that way. It's fine to introduce something to replace them, I doub't any ppu's would have a problem with that. Antibuff, antiheal drones, and spirit mod were all designed to be anti ppu weapons. Suggest another to replace noob buffs and everyone will be happy.
As I already said, the only reason noob buffs are still in is because kk hasn't set aside the time to impliment a proper way to balance ppus. Psi shield is a perfect example, the use of it offensively is *exactly* the same as using shelter offensively. However psi shield majorly crippled monks, which is why it was promptly fixed. Noob buffs aren't nearly as bad, so kk put them on the backburner until they have time to fix it.
There shouldn't be any argument guys, ppu's do not want to have noob buffs removed because we want to be invincible. We want them removed because they shouldn't be used that way. It's fine to introduce something to replace them, I doub't any ppu's would have a problem with that. Antibuff, antiheal drones, and spirit mod were all designed to be anti ppu weapons. Suggest another to replace noob buffs and everyone will be happy.
I've heard of a really weird way for a team to kill a PPU....they all use their weapon in QB slot 1 and press the left click mouse button :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Im sure it would.. Man Id love to play my apu then.. can they tradeskill successfuly? Anyone remember Tony Suprano on pluto bout a year back.. A constructing monk.. Maybe all apu's could become the next tradeskill class dont ya think? :rolleyes:
Im mean yeah, an apu can survive one on one but, in an op war situation without buffs hes a dead man, hes no stealth to run and hide.. medi-kits are too slow.
Fuck self buffs, APU/PPU are to halfs to a class built to work together.. strong they be. BUT! a good tank/ppu team > an apu/ppu team ;)
Whoa, someone arguing for APU/PPU teams. lol.
And only melee/ppu > apu/ppu, not hc/ppu, and that's only because melee needs fixing almost as badly as ppus do.
I've heard of a really weird way for a team to kill a PPU....they all use their weapon in QB slot 1 and press the left click mouse button :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
How many times have you killed a GOOD ppu like that? I doubt very many unless the enemy PPU is parashocked and DB'd, and possibly constantly anti-buffed.
Whoa, someone arguing for APU/PPU teams. lol.
And only melee/ppu > apu/ppu, not hc/ppu, and that's only because melee needs fixing almost as badly as ppus do.
Im sorry bout if CylOn is about then maybe he can defend himself when it come to a HC tank/PPU team..
Descent and Semtex a.k.a Cylon have killed so many.. ;)
and to everyone for noob buffs a nice self quote:
Well, What other game do you know where you heal your enemies so you can kill em, Or improve their defences to kill them o_O
Heals/Buffs were never intended to be used in the way they are.. nuff said ;)
hc/ppu is actually very good especially now HC can be capped :D
Watched our hc and ppu who was last standing increase the body count quite substantially before they finally fell to the whordes
[PiN]Fluffy
16-11-04, 23:03
Ok time for me to post something intellegent. PPu V.S noob buffs. 1st of all ppus are not supposed to die! they are made to rez, heal, etc.... That is why they can take on an army. Noob buffing is not technically an exploit but it is a LAME TACTIC which should be considered an exploit. Let me give u an example. Is there an easy way of killing a MC tank? No, you just have to straight up wup his ASS. Now should be the same for all characters. Each have strengths and weaknesses that you can use to your advantage or not. But making a ppu COMPLETELY defenseless is Stupid what is the fun in killing someone if they are on their knees at your mercy? The PPU character was made for Healing, etc... so therefore it should be able to heal,rez,shelter,etc... as effectively as an APU can attack. I mean there is nothing you can do to stop an APu from pounding your ass with Holy lightining. SO just bcz KK messed and let this "Exploit" go on as a fighting tactic all u veterans should know this is wrong and is not necessary. Basically wat i am getting to is SELF CASTED SPELLS(spells casted on yourself) should Overide any other foreign casted spells(spells casted by other people.) And yes Apus can still Use antibuff and all that, Then that is when u hit the ppu. Noone says it would be easy to take down PPU's that is what they are made for. So for my 1st month in necron this is just what i have to say about noob buffs. DesCent ROCK ON!!! NUFF SAID :cool:
Noob Buffing > skills.
Ppl who need to noob buff, haven't got the skills.
Yeah it sure is hard to take down a good ppu, but it can be done without noob shelt/def/healing him.
I'm with you Desc, *****
KRIMINAL99
16-11-04, 23:56
I'm sure a spell called a 'Shelter' would be intended to use as a defence.
I'd also rather not comment on what kind of person it would take to misunderstand those definitions (or try on purpose to misunderstand them)...
O_o
EDIT: I would also like to say that most of the people who are pro noob buffing don't play a ppu/never have played a ppu
To be sure of that is to make an assumption thereby making an ass out of "U" and mption. On what basis do you claim this? It is not A) illogical that a defense spell might be intended to have offensive applications B) it is in favor of game balance that ppus can be noob buffed. The best argument you could make is that it should be the way you want it according to some arbitrary roleplay reasoning... Which could easily be argued against in favor of protecting game balance (psychic powers can not overwrite each other blah blah...)
And in any case its been declared that noob buffing is not an exploit so therefore you are wrong... period. It is only the vagueness of exploit definition that I pointed out in my last post that even ALLOWS you to claim that perhaps it is an exploit when it has been specificaly stated that it is not. And yet you argue that exploit definition is not vague.
So apparently the kind of person it would take to "misunderstand those definitions" is someone with better reasoning ability than you...
And I have played a ppu.
2 words: DEFENSIVE and OFFENSIVE. Can you understand the meaning of these?
Is it just me, or is everybody else retarded too, imho DEFENSIVE means DEFENSIVE - not OFFENSIVE.
Disturbed21
17-11-04, 00:11
lol this thread is going nowhere and there is not a single response from kk on this issue....yet again.
Anyone who thinks a tl25 shelters intended purpose is to kill a PPU is on crack :p
And likewise, anyone who thinks it is an exploit is taking the same drug :p
kk have seen these threads for several months and never said it was an exploit. How can it possible be an exploit if they are aware of it and never say it is?
The intended purpose of a tl25 shelter and tl3 heal is not be used to kill a PPU but atm it is one of the most effective ways of killing a PPU and kk continues to allow it to be used in that way because imho they know that PPUs may be a bit overpowered...
As Carinth said, they can not address the issue of the noob buffing until they decide what to do with PPUs.
To be sure of that is to make an assumption thereby making an ass out of "U" and mption. On what basis do you claim this? It is not A) illogical that a defense spell might be intended to have offensive applications B) it is in favor of game balance that ppus can be noob buffed. The best argument you could make is that it should be the way you want it according to some arbitrary roleplay reasoning... Which could easily be argued against in favor of protecting game balance (psychic powers can not overwrite each other blah blah...)
And in any case its been declared that noob buffing is not an exploit so therefore you are wrong... period. It is only the vagueness of exploit definition that I pointed out in my last post that even ALLOWS you to claim that perhaps it is an exploit when it has been specificaly stated that it is not. And yet you argue that exploit definition is not vague.
So apparently the kind of person it would take to "misunderstand those definitions" is someone with better reasoning ability than you...
And I have played a ppu.
I can say that I'm 99.99% sure that when KK made this game they didn't put as much thought into shelters to think that it could someone be used offensively. Realistically how likely do you think it is that they would have?
I never said that it was an exploit and I was commenting on the fact that you could be so childish as to purposely try to find fault in his perfectly understandable definitions.
Does anyone remember the time when people didn't noob buff? I'm sure PPUs died back then
I remember the time when ppl didn't noobbuff even on Saturn.. and that's not even that long time ago..
ive killed tons of ppus - never using a noob buff, its not even vaguely necessary
[PiN]Fluffy
17-11-04, 01:21
GUYS. just STOP. I dont know y this thread is so big. Point is NOOB buffing Has to come to a stop one way or another. Wat is the discussion. KK Nerfs everything y not just stop noob buffing cant be to hard. On offense intended KK.
only read the first post, and only got 1 opinion, its not an exploit, learn to live with it.
QuantumDelta
17-11-04, 03:24
Fluffy:
Because most of this community consists of asshats.
Merhic summed it up best with his first post in this thread.
Well skilled PPUs will tell you that PPUs are problematic in the world of balance.
However that does not justify anyone exploiting(as quite rightfully posted in the first post), and stopping someone's character within a world from functioning.
Anyone who partitions against Parashock, and then turns around and says noob buffing is fine, are complete hypocrits, because they are the _EXACT_ same thing.
money h4x, the mountain exploit, money exploit, wallwalker and stuff like that all depend on bugs. Healing, shielding is not a bug. ppu buffs work on everybody except on LE'd ppl. I can TL3 heal a ppu whos rezzing to support him, I can also TL3 heal the same ppu and attack him after that. The combination is, let me accent that, your problem.
I dont think the amount of ppl who know how to dupe items and hack money is higher then 1%, maybe 10% of all nc players know how to exploit on mountains. I heard that ppl got banned for using money exploits and item dupes, I saw ppl deny the fact that they used the exploit to get on top of a mountain befor it has been declared as an exploit coz everybody knew that stuff like that is exploiting.
if u look at the noob buff tactic now, u will see ppl shitbuffing in every op fight, and I estaminate that 80% of the pvp active clans are using shitbuffs. this tactic is very old; I got killed 2 years ago on jupiter coz my hybrid used a TL3 heal on another hybrid and he thought Im trying to shitbuff him. I never heard that only a single gm called it an exploit or that somebody got banned coz he used shitbuffs.
I have never seen an official statement bout that.
therefor, I dont know if KK thought about the possibility of shitbuffs, but I guess nobody of them thought about that. Im also pretty sure KK never wanted PPUs to use swords to be the ruler in 1on1, 1 PPU + x Dam Dealers with anti poison sanctum in gravis/viper grave killing all mobs without problems (the sanctum is gone now), or camping a spawning chaos leutnant. Is every ppu with a sword an exploiter ? is everyone whos using barrels inside ug to make it impossible to enter it after the op got hacked an exploiter, coz maybe no developer thought about this option?
atm, ppl which use shitbuffs arent exploiters. If KK thinks that this tactic ruins pvp (Im an active pvp player, always argumented for fairplay and I dont think noobbuffs are a problem) then they will announce that.
until that happens, everybody who thinks its ok to call me an exploiter coz I say I would use noobbuffs if I could (playing droner, apu, ppu soon again) will get reported to abuse@neocron.de . to call somebody exploiter is an offence.
I hope everybody can read what I wrote, my english is crap tbh =P
QuantumDelta
17-11-04, 03:46
Definition of an exploit:
-To use game mechanics in such a way other than it is intended use,
-To use something to get an advantage over another player,
Simple Enough, eh?
Simple Enough, eh?
show me the official statement which says that its an exploit to use a TL3 heal to block the holy heal.
superfresh
17-11-04, 04:18
I'll give another example.
I could roll a brand new character, get a couple of levels so that I can cast basic spells, and having come relatively fresh out of the noob MC5 area, waltz into the wastelands, and have the ability to strip an 80+ / *** PPU of their primary function?
I seriously doubt that developers said "yeah, the TL 3 heal will be great for low level psi users, and they can cast it on capped PPU enemies!" Going on intuition and common sense, but I'll stick by my assumption.
I'll give another example.
I could roll a brand new character, get a couple of levels so that I can cast basic spells, and having come relatively fresh out of the noob MC5 area, waltz into the wastelands, and have the ability to strip an 80+ / *** PPU of their primary function?
u cant. maybe u can if this ppu is a stupid newb who never played his char, but otherwise it wont work.
btw, I dont think KK invented the chars to make it possible to zerg with 5 clans and 30 chars against 1 clan and 5 chars. lets ban em all, I guess we start with QDs clan.
oh, and what about offlinehacking? ninjahacking? ban all stealthers who hack first layer and go into stealth then ? ban all newbs who buy TL 150 mission bps to lvl extremely fast ?
superfresh
17-11-04, 05:27
Don't think anyone is asking for any bans.
Zergs are a player issue, not a game design issue. It's a part of how politics and runner interaction work, which leave a part of the game up to the players. But I think they're unrelated to the thread topic. :)
Quote:
Definition of an exploit:
-To use game mechanics in such a way other than it is intended use,
-To use something to get an advantage over another player,
Simple Enough, eh?
And the LE wasnt designed to allow ppl to scout with immunity, or steal loot, but people do it all the time and I dont see them getting banned for that. So whats your point? Like someone else said, if another player uses a high TL gun they "technically" have an advantage over me and are therfore exploiting. Give me a break, please.
Just as I said before in my other post. IF KK made self casts override foreign casts, would we see all the now invincible PPUs making threads about balancing their class? Of course not because they would not gave the balls to give up god mode. Its as simple as that.
Don't think anyone is asking for any bans.
Zergs are a player issue, not a game design issue. It's a part of how politics and runner interaction work, which leave a part of the game up to the players. But I think they're unrelated to the thread topic. :)
and what about the rest of my examples? zerg tactics wasnt the only one ..
superfresh
17-11-04, 06:30
and what about the rest of my examples? zerg tactics wasnt the only one ..
Ok I read your other threads and the examples make sense in and of themselves. But while I don't consider the current foreign TL 3 heal to be an "exploit," especially because KK reserves the right to determine what is one, I don't think of it as a tactic either. It seems clearly to be a game design issue.
A PPU can parashock you, you can drug. A PPU can DB you, you can drug. A PPU can do either or both of these things and it does not impair your ability to fire your weapon, except that you will have a tougher time targeting. But you can still shoot. There is nothing a PPU can do to prevent you from performing your primary function. But they can try to keep you from doing it well.
Now a player casts low level buffs on a PPU, their primary function is lost, and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it.
I've read where people are saying that PPUs are finding ways to kill equal level runners. I haven't seen it yet. But seeing as a lot of the people posting here are veterans, I can't imagine that a lot of the "big name" combat players who know what they are doing would actually fall to a PPU in 1 on 1.
Now a player casts low level buffs on a PPU, their primary function is lost, and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it.
in case of the tl3 heal, u cant heal yourself for 10 seconds. what really hurts is a noob shelter. and I already said that it would be ok for me if its possible to cast a holy shelter on yourself to overwrite the noob shelter. But heal should stay as it is.
I've read where people are saying that PPUs are finding ways to kill equal level runners. I haven't seen it yet. But seeing as a lot of the people posting here are veterans, I can't imagine that a lot of the "big name" combat players who know what they are doing would actually fall to a PPU in 1 on 1.
an apu will die to a sword using ppu in 1on1. a Tank will die too. spies can stealth, pes can heal.
And the LE wasnt designed to allow ppl to scout with immunity, or steal loot, but people do it all the time and I dont see them getting banned for that. So whats your point? Like someone else said, if another player uses a high TL gun they "technically" have an advantage over me and are therfore exploiting. Give me a break, please.
Just as I said before in my other post. IF KK made self casts override foreign casts, would we see all the now invincible PPUs making threads about balancing their class? Of course not because they would not gave the balls to give up god mode. Its as simple as that.
exactly
one of the best posts I've read in a while.
superfresh
17-11-04, 08:37
an apu will die to a sword using ppu in 1on1. a Tank will die too. spies can stealth, pes can heal.
I'd have to see that then. Sounds annoying.
if the ppu cant avoid noob buffing he is a noob :)
u cant kill good ppus without it anyways... so its fine... and it "boosts" the teamplay....
AMEN.
Amen, and yet nonsense. I know loads of good PPUs who die to noob buffs, especially now spell casting is borked. People might well question my PPUing (usually people who've never been PPUd by me) but if anyone is seriously suggesting that Carinth, Cylon, Descent et al are all 'noob' ppus then their opinions aren't worth squat.
sorry, chumble, but when its rite that ur solitaire then ur ppu sux. or maybe he sucked when I was on pluto. I just remember this ppu who was hardly able to survive my apu alone ..
I know that descent and cyl0n are good ppus (never saw carinth on pluto or terra), but there are also a lot of good ppus who vote for noobbuffs.
i vote for noobbuffs :p
got noobbuffed 6x in total and survived 4 times.
its not that hard
(btw the 2 times i died was vs 15+...)
I just remember this ppu who was hardly able to survive my apu alone ..
Pretty shit memory you have there, seems to be remembering stuff that didn't happen.
i vote for noobbuffs :p
got noobbuffed 6x in total and survived 4 times.
its not that hard
(btw the 2 times i died was vs 15+...)
yea, when i've seen you noob buffed, it was luck more than skill that you got away. Yes there were quite a few people there, and i had nothing to do with them, they were barrelling 120/120 tsu guards ffs, you, me, your tank and Ascention included.
when you did you get noob buffed you ran away like a little girl,through doors that my brother had to reopen to try and chase you.
at the end of the day we can all vote for and against this but as carinth says its is like kk's temporary fix to a problem that they can't work out how to solve it could be easily fixed if wanted as psi shield was.
But as kk can't work out what to do to bring ppu's back to a decent level they will leave this to bring them back down to earth and make them more killable even if it does bring more stress to the ppu's (which i know we don't need)
yea, when i've seen you noob buffed, it was luck more than skill that you got away. Yes there were quite a few people there, and i had nothing to do with them, they were barrelling 120/120 tsu guards ffs, you, me, your tank and Ascention included.
when you did you get noob buffed you ran away like a little girl,through doors that my brother had to reopen to try and chase you.
u didnt hear our vent.
and if i say it now u wouldntve believed it anyway.
i had my reasons to run that time.
and btw.. u say now u had other ppl shooting us.. on trade u said it was a 2v2...
and iirc u told me it was against SS policy to noobbuff but still u did..
betraying ur faith?
just face the fact u lost ur fucking antipara and stop the whine.
live with noobbuffs or leave, no1's forcing u to play
Maybe the only way to get people to get it is to start tl3 buff everybode in op wars. Then all other classes get the same problem. I know I wouldn't wanna be in a op war with out my fellow ppu's buffs.
This whole thread is wrong . Noob buffings atm is a tactic not an exploit it can be avoided and its the test of a ppu who can. So you died once or twice dont let it hurt your pride your probably still the best at what you do. Forcing your game policies upon people is lame. Its the same in game listening to this crying over it. Why not start doing it yourself. Threatening to do it to people who do it has no effect " omg you kill me with noob buff we going to kill you with it even thought its against what we stand for " Fire ahead is all i say i dont give a crap just stop moaning.
If you consider that on average most people travel with a ppu i would say that nib buffing is justfied. There are hardly any duelers any more, skill is replaced by a ppu throwing a shelter on someone. ATM the ppu's are balanced to fight high level mobs and players. A loan runner against a good ppu no matter what skill he is is dead. At least if kk is going to address the issue on nib buffings it should address ppu's in general.
Evidently some people don't classify something as an exploit until kk does so. Which means money exploits are not an exploit until kk notices them and puts in a fix, or until the GM's get involved and warn people. Does that mean bugs are not bugs until kk says something?
Many are also caught up on the idea that exploit = ban. That's simply not true, there are tons of minor exploits that people get away with, there are moderate exploits which we just get a warning for, only the big ones will get us banned.
The best argument against noob buffs is the fact that a noob ppu or pe can render a capped ppu pointless. Whats the point in specializing in defense when some kid can prevent me from using my defense. For a comparison, imagine a noob pistolero could throw his gun at you and force you to use it instead of your rare pistol. What was the point in capping your char and specializing in pistols when any noob, even a ppu, could gimp you.
When antibuff first arrived I was horrified, because it was a really awful way to go about killing ppu's. Honestly I would rather be weakened so that normal weapons could kill me. Having our defenses vanish and instantly we're no stronger then an apu is a bit much. It would have been better if they implimented the ability to break shelters with sufficient damage. That would have been sane, but I digress. I survived antibuff and adjusted to become a paranoid ppu that is always glancing at my buffs, instead of just when i know they're going down.
Even though I disagree with antibuff, I could accept it because it's a high level apu spell. It requires a specialized high level character to counter my specialized high level abilities. Later on when the anti heal drone and spirit mod silent hunters were introduced, these too were high level specialized weapons. I really disagree with the way the SH was done, but again I could live with it.
Noob buffs though are completely different. Every class has the basic psi abilities, except apu's and its not too difficult for them to go slightly hybrid. So everyone can noob buff and as I've said a bunch of times already, why should a noob be able to counter a capped char?!
Evidently some people don't classify something as an exploit until kk does so. Which means money exploits are not an exploit until kk notices them and puts in a fix, or until the GM's get involved and warn people. Does that mean bugs are not bugs until kk says something?
Many are also caught up on the idea that exploit = ban. That's simply not true, there are tons of minor exploits that people get away with, there are moderate exploits which we just get a warning for, only the big ones will get us banned.
The best argument against noob buffs is the fact that a noob ppu or pe can render a capped ppu pointless. Whats the point in specializing in defense when some kid can prevent me from using my defense. For a comparison, imagine a noob pistolero could throw his gun at you and force you to use it instead of your rare pistol. What was the point in capping your char and specializing in pistols when any noob, even a ppu, could gimp you.
When antibuff first arrived I was horrified, because it was a really awful way to go about killing ppu's. Honestly I would rather be weakened so that normal weapons could kill me. Having our defenses vanish and instantly we're no stronger then an apu is a bit much. It would have been better if they implimented the ability to break shelters with sufficient damage. That would have been sane, but I digress. I survived antibuff and adjusted to become a paranoid ppu that is always glancing at my buffs, instead of just when i know they're going down.
Even though I disagree with antibuff, I could accept it because it's a high level apu spell. It requires a specialized high level character to counter my specialized high level abilities. Later on when the anti heal drone and spirit mod silent hunters were introduced, these too were high level specialized weapons. I really disagree with the way the SH was done, but again I could live with it.
Noob buffs though are completely different. Every class has the basic psi abilities, except apu's and its not too difficult for them to go slightly hybrid. So everyone can noob buff and as I've said a bunch of times already, why should a noob be able to counter a capped char?!
If your stupid enough not to notice and anti-buff or let your buffs simply run out and you get nib buffed then you deserve to die. Most ppu's are good enought that they can deal with the little annpyances of nib buffs. Like cmon if you go head to headwith a nib ppu and he gets you killed well you have no skill and should die
avoid... lol
you people dont have a clue its so sad actually
i say it for the 1000th time ... even nc`s best ppu cant avoid a good apu / ppu team nub buffing him in the middle of an op fight IF he doesnt know that the 2 players are planing it..
if they`re on TS and they have good timing they can debuff and nub shelter you faster than you could recast the fucking shelter once you saw your sd gone
and all that while supporting a team..
we arent talking about 1o1 situations ... ofc its no fucking problem to run from a few people in pp3 ... omfg
its all about op wars and 10+vs10+ fights where you simply cant overview so easily who`s nub buffing / debuffing etc if you want to keep your team alive and kill the enemy.
thx.
so.. ?
Darkener: You totaly misunderstood me : /
That a noob can prevent me from using my abilities is just wrong. Wouldn't you agree it's ludicrous to have plasma cannons override cursed souls? What if a scout drone could force Particle Nemesis drones to fall over dead?
Cliffraiser
17-11-04, 20:17
this thread makes me giggle.
full with clueless people really.
specially the ones saying "if you die to n00b buff you r t3h n00b har har!!111oneon"
Ozambabbaz
17-11-04, 20:20
Darkener: You totaly misunderstood me : /
That a noob can prevent me from using my abilities is just wrong. Wouldn't you agree it's ludicrous to have plasma cannons override cursed souls? What if a scout drone could force Particle Nemesis drones to fall over dead?
i see the reasoning, but a PPU can make my capped Pain Easer do damage of a mendicant rifle, and that is more common than noob buffing anybody, alltho 2 wrongs don't make a right :(
QuantumDelta
17-11-04, 21:31
show me the official statement which says that its an exploit to use a TL3 heal to block the holy heal.
KK vs Oxford Dictionary o_O
i see the reasoning, but a PPU can make my capped Pain Easer do damage of a mendicant rifle, and that is more common than noob buffing anybody, alltho 2 wrongs don't make a right :(
That would be a high level ppu using their strongest defensive spells rending your high level strongest offense ineffective. It still fits the logic, though wether a ppu should be able to impart such a huge benefit on himself and others is a different issue. If it were possible to use crahn shelter and have it give the same effect as holy shelter, then yes you could say that's the same as noob buffs. The low level weapon would be competing with a high level one, which is not right.
Another good example would what if low level parashocks had the effect of holy paralysis. Would it be fair for parabolt to turn your runspeed to crap? Even with the decreased duration, its a silly idea. There'd be no point in speccing for runspeed if it could be so easily undone.
Jesterthegreat
17-11-04, 23:25
Definition of an exploit:
-To use game mechanics in such a way other than it is intended use,
heals were intended to be self cast only?
-To use something to get an advantage over another player,
a holy heal doesnt give you an advantage over another player? you cant take the wording and twist it to your opinion, or if you can then i can too :p
So in essence, casting noob buffs, heals on a ppu "IS" an exploit. By which they are using a tactic which wasn't intended for people to use. i havent seen KK stating that i am not allowed to heal PPU's... link me to such a statement please?
So my next question is;
Why do Gm's do nothing against people using these game killing methods?
Why don't reakktor do something to stop noob buffs?
why would they? if tl3 heals were supposed to be self cast only they would be.
i've heard alot of ways to stop people using these methods, Personally, making buffs overide is the easiest and most plausable way to stop noob buffs, and i don't see how it can make ppu's overpowered, or that it can be exploited.
PPU's should be killable. hell if i wasnt noob buffed my 85 base psi PPU could rebuff before dieing.
it really isn't that hard to kill a ppu if you have the skill, there are alot of things can kill ppus.... you've got antibuffs, mosquito drones, tanks, anti heal spells, and the old almighty army against 1 ppu.
anti heal drones suck, and heal sanc keeps workin, antibuffs are poiuntless without noob buffs as the ppu rebuffs, mosquito is outhealed by holy heal + holy heal sanc (and PPU's are often extremely quick moving), dont anti heal spells take longer to cast than a heal? if not then im mistaken on that one...
tank ill give you, but having 1 viable way to kill a ppu isnt good.
If you find yourself unable to kill them, its probably cause your not good enough to kill them, or that they're simply too good to be killed by 1/2 players. I mean ffs, PPU's give up the ability to do anything on their own, they should at least have the opportunity to not be killed by 2 people.
invunrability is not a right
In conclusion, i know iam going to get flamed by people who think noob buffs are cool, and those people who think ppus are overpowered, but all am asking is for the class i've played for 2 years to stop being cheated, and for the class to be fun again.
its not being cheated, all classes can be noob buffed...
in conclusion i have a PPU, i dont think noob buffs are cool, however they are a solution to the PPU defences.
Praetorian
17-11-04, 23:56
Im sure it would.. Man Id love to play my apu then.. can they tradeskill successfuly? Anyone remember Tony Suprano on pluto bout a year back.. A constructing monk.. Maybe all apu's could become the next tradeskill class dont ya think? :rolleyes:
OMFG KOS! Dont talk badly about TonySoprano... he made my 4 slot PE like in the summer of 2003... :D
Anyway, this whole thread is making me even more sick of the current NC situation. Even if you manage to debuff someone, they will use game mechanics to avoid sure death. Like zoning for several minutes until you have left your PC to take a piss, zone out of chaos caves and stand inside entrance so you cant be targeted, run around pillars for half a minute until your enemies are all running sideways or falling off their chairs, zone then deliberatly crash client, zone in and out of UG like their stresstesting the server... This list is endless really...
Just let higher TL buffs override lower TL buffs... Simple...
As for PPUs killing other runners? If you are playing on terra as an APU, dont mess with midian... His bat is EVUL! :lol:
PS: <3 cyl0n ;)
u didnt hear our vent.
and if i say it now u wouldntve believed it anyway.
i had my reasons to run that time.
and btw.. u say now u had other ppl shooting us.. on trade u said it was a 2v2...
and iirc u told me it was against SS policy to noobbuff but still u did..
betraying ur faith?
just face the fact u lost ur fucking antipara and stop the whine.
live with noobbuffs or leave, no1's forcing u to play
lol, your so damn chuffed that you got that anti para aren't you! but i am not really not that bothered i lost it... everyone knows i've got access to one of the best constructors there is 24/7 :rolleyes:
i can't remember saying it was 2v2 either because it wasn't, but again :rolleyes:
also, i wasn't the only PPU there to able to noob buff you, so again :rolleyes: besides, i was too busy protecting the APU that had been aggro'd upto 7/8 120/120 tsunami guards that you were cowering behind.
and oh yes, feel special, you didn't die to 6/7 runners!!! omg leet!!! :rolleyes:
Anyway, this whole thread is making me even more sick of the current NC situation. Even if you manage to debuff someone, they will use game mechanics to avoid sure death. Like zoning for several minutes until you have left your PC to take a piss, zone out of chaos caves and stand inside entrance so you cant be targeted, run around pillars for half a minute until your enemies are all running sideways or falling off their chairs, zone then deliberatly crash client, zone in and out of UG like their stresstesting the server... This list is endless really...
Yeah that happened ot me once. A PPU was humping the zone line so badly that I fell out of my chair from motion sickness and puked and the ppu came back and saw me puking and killed me with his fists, db and a soul cluster. :(
lol, your so damn chuffed that you got that anti para aren't you! but i am not really not that bothered i lost it... everyone knows i've got access to one of the best constructors there is 24/7 :rolleyes:
i can't remember saying it was 2v2 either because it wasn't, but again :rolleyes:
also, i wasn't the only PPU there to able to noob buff you, so again :rolleyes: besides, i was too busy protecting the APU that had been aggro'd upto 7/8 120/120 tsunami guards that you were cowering behind.
and oh yes, feel special, you didn't die to 6/7 runners!!! omg leet!!! :rolleyes:
I said it was 2 v 2 originally bro, but some nibs were screaming over allied chat.. Oh for the record M8ty the guards finished me off when I died.. Funny Descent managed to run passed and rez me.. Lets face it who can fight with clipping like that.. the doors shut on ya etc etc..
And for noob buffs there was descent and one other ppu if i re-call so it could of been the other ppu..
Although I fell target to a tl 3 heal a tl deflector a para, db , tradeing and stuck in a door, and lived.. not bad.. But sure was the lowest of the low :p
simple question: is somebody whos using the UG in op fight to avoid getting killed an exploiter?
keep in mind, the UG has been created to stop ppl who hack an op while camping the gr and running to the next op after they hacked it, its also vs ninjahacks. it has been created to give the owner of the op the ability to reach his op safe and fast. there is also not a single statement from KK bout the so called "UG-Laming".
please answer with yes or no.
/edit: and pls also add if u think shitbuffing is exploiting.
simple question: is somebody whos using the UG in op fight to avoid getting killed an exploiter?
keep in mind, the UG has been created to stop ppl who hack an op while camping the gr and running to the next op after they hacked it, its also vs ninjahacks. it has been created to give the owner of the op the ability to reach his op safe and fast. there is also not a single statement from KK bout the so called "UG-Laming".
please answer with yes or no.
Zoning shouldn't be considered an exploit in this case, althought I do believe using objects such as an OP UG door to run around and exploit clipping issues is an exploit. Perhaps op undergrounds should be made into ground panels much like the ones in plaza to prevent such abuse of clipping.
Perhaps op undergrounds should be made into ground panels much like the ones in plaza to prevent such abuse of clipping.
Would make sense, as thats what you click on to zone out the UG's :)
in fact u will have to call everybody who runs into ug with low hp an exploiter if u say that shitbuffing is an exploit coz both actions include an abuse of game mechanics -> we got tons of exploiters posting in this thread. and dont forget, when it comes to shitbuffing, u will see that both sides can do that without a problem .. but the UG can only be used by the defender. The UG is indeed more powerful then noobbuffs. wou wou wou, wait a sec .. why are ppl in this thread calling shitbuffs exploits while they sync into UG a dozens of times in every fight?
btw, u shouldnt compare money exploits and item dupes with shitbuffing. If I post something like "using a Tl3 Heal on a ppu is a nice tactic to block his holy heal and a good chance to take him down" nobody will edit it.
If I post something like "u have to press 13 times the '?' in the upper right corner of ur rpos to earn 1.000.000 credits" (this is an example, for sure u wont get 1.000.000 credits if u try it ^^) then, Im sure about that, a mod would delete my post and maybe ban my acc.
I hope everybody knows where the difference is between weapon hacks, item dupes, money cheats and the noobbuff tactic.
QuantumDelta
18-11-04, 03:28
btw, u shouldnt compare money exploits and item dupes with shitbuffing. If I post something like "using a Tl3 Heal on a ppu is a nice tactic to block his holy heal and a good chance to take him down" nobody will edit it.
If I post something like "u have to press 13 times the '?' in the upper right corner of ur rpos to earn 1.000.000 credits" (this is an example, for sure u wont get 1.000.000 credits if u try it ^^) then, Im sure about that, a mod would delete my post and maybe ban my acc.
I hope everybody knows where the difference is between weapon hacks, item dupes, money cheats and the noobbuff tactic.
It's the same word that is in use, although it is refered to differently.
It is, at the VERY LEAST Technically an exploit.
And FYI;
Though it's me personally, and my approach and morals in regards to gaming.
I do class all of the above, as an exploit of one grade or another.
what about underground ? hiding inside ug coz of low hp = exploit or not ?
MindFeeder
18-11-04, 06:33
It's the same word that is in use, although it is refered to differently.
It is, at the VERY LEAST Technically an exploit.
And FYI;
Though it's me personally, and my approach and morals in regards to gaming.
I do class all of the above, as an exploit of one grade or another.
Then UG Syncing is exploit too. BAN HALF OF THE SERVER!
Coming with 20 PPUs and 10 Ddealer is exploiting the Balancing too. BAN THE OTHER HALF!
Droners are an comepletly safespot exploiter class. OMFG BAN THEM ALL!
Killing noobs who have not any chance to fight back is exploiting too. BAN EVERYONE WHO IS NOT INCLUDED ABOVE NOW!!!!!!1111
You get the point? ;)
MindFeeder
18-11-04, 06:36
And another point:
If someone asks me what ruined PVP in this game i wouldt say Noobbuffing, i would say PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU, Savespot UG and Para, but fuck about the fucking noobbuffs this is the fucking most worthless problem NC PVP Balancing has at the moment :mad:
Exploit does not mean ban! You only get banned for serious exploits that really mess up game balance.
Zone hopping is an exploit most definitly, you're abusing the synch time to give yourself a few extra seconds to heal/get away.
Does that mean everyone should be banned? No of course not..
If you only think exploits are bannable offenses, then you're saying an action is not an exploit until kk boots you. That's the same as saying taking someone's wallet is not stealing until the police arrest you. That would mean if the police never catch you then it wasn't stealing...
And another point:
If someone asks me what ruined PVP in this game i wouldt say Noobbuffing, i would say PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU PPU, Savespot UG and Para, but fuck about the fucking noobbuffs this is the fucking most worthless problem NC PVP Balancing has at the moment :mad:
And noob buffs are an issue in balancing ppus... I take it what you really mean is that you want to remove the class all together. I guess that's one way to balance : p
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