View Full Version : Monkcron? No, welcome to Gank-o-cron!
Dr Strange
13-11-04, 08:45
Oh how I am really starting to love this game. Really, an indepth cyberpunk mmofpsrpg that has the worlds most childish ignorant dick-measuring ingame community I've seen. Out of game I've seen alot of friendly people in the forums, irc channels, fansites etc But ingame aside from a few people the majority are probably the biggest assholes I know.
Now, being the "noob" that I am, I enjoyed the idea of the LE for a while. I could not be killed by another player at all. PKers have driven me from some games, I just cannot stand to be random killed by some fagtard while I'm trying to do some simple honest leveling.
But oh no, things I thought were different in NC, or for me NC2. Not only do I have to worry about pro city gankers which I can at least understand to a point cause hey, it is pro vs anti after all, in the end. But no, I truely do love being ally ganked by not an allied faction no, that'd be too good. But by people in your own god damn faction. Doesn't matter to them they lose SL hell some like it that way, they just enjoy fucking up someone elses day.
Some will argue that in being done so, you lose nothing. Sorry but I lose time. Time for which I am paying real money for. I lose enjoyment in the game. When it comes to wasting money and not enjoying it, then I've got a problem with it.
Some will argue, leave your LE in. Sure, I could. Then if I wanted to do the epic for my current faction I'd have to stay under 30/30 if I wanted to pop the LE back in assuming pulling it out doesn't damn near destroy it. Of course that's not an option now, little late. Sure I could leave it in if I never wanted to start a clan or pvp in an op war. Hell half the fun is down the road when I manage to work myself high enough in level TO be able to op war.
It's not bad having to watch out for pro city guys as an anti city guy, it's not bad having to watch out for generally allied guys, it's fucking sad as hell you have to watch your back for SAME FACTION fuck tards.
There should be an option for no cash, to go faction less. I mean seriously, I am paying money to try to level so I can attempt to grow eyes in the back of my fucking head to watch out for some average joe in the same god damn faction as me from just ganking me left and right.
When I can look past people ganking at gen reps, you know theres something fucked up with allied gankers. I mean the "punishment" of neg SL and symp just isn't enough, most don't even fucking care. I can deal with some random guy pro city probably gen rep ganking me at MB or camping out noobs who are running to TH but fuck me if an allied killing is something that can honestly be justified.
Yes, this has been a issue or somewhat issue for what, years? I'm new, deal with that. Don't hand me the fucking same old rehashed "deal with it" or "leave your chip in". It is a double-fucking-standard. If you leave your chip in, for whatever reasons, you're always going to be called a carebear and a sissy. If you take it out every random fucktard including the same people in your own faction will take you out like a hired-fucking-hitman. Its a no win situation. Suggestion boxes haven't been KK's thing but fuck I'm a payin customer here, theres gotta be more options or at least consider adding a bigger punishment for allied killing.
MindFeeder
13-11-04, 09:01
This " Same Faction Gankin" must be an problem of the internationals, i were never Pked [without a reasons] wherever on Jupiter to NC1 by an anlly, and never now on Mars and on Mercury. May some ppl now calling us germans carebears but i dont see the reason to kill allied ppl without proper reasons and then taking hours to run missions in my hq to get my SL up.
Could someone plz explain my why this "ally-gankin" is so widespereaded on Terra?
I really dont get it :P
I don't know how it was on Uranus or Pluto, but on Saturn it was rampant and common place. The reasons given were most commonly varied among:
- Because I can.
- I feel like it. Sucks to be you.
- You killed me on my ALT CHARACTER, despite the fact that that alt is HOSTILE TO YOU and so was LEGIT.
- You killed a friend/clanmate, etc., despite the fact that they were/are HOSTILE to you, but *I* am allied to you.
- I don't like your name.
- Since you're allied, you weren't expecting that I would attack you. So it was piss easy. So I did.
Usually some bullshit along those lines.
Worse are even OP zones where you can gank everyone freely without any SL loss. I'd rather prefer getting called carebear than having to mess all the time with this stuff. I'm playing this game to have fun, and this excludes getting interrupted by force with whatever I do just because someone felt like it.
Blame the way the faction/SL system works. People will always use the game mechanics to their favor and liking. Unless KK (drastically) changes it, things won't change.
The same faction and allied pking needs a solution of they attack you first you don't lose SL
QuantumDelta
13-11-04, 12:03
well he knows this community perfectly.
Welcome to Sat-erra.
NC seems much easier to play if you have the morals of a pikey teenager. The RolePlayers have left, the carebears are leaving, all that's gonna be left is inbred PKers called Cletus and noobs :(
Well maybe it won't be quite that bad...but NC PvP does certainly favour the ganker and griefer, so I'd not be surprised if on average they stayed longer than normal people.
LE is
a) A piece of shit idea
b) A piece of shit implementation
Seriously, the whole nerf you are given if you wear the LE is prepostorus.
1. You can't be rezzed by normal players
2. You have a slot in the imp spot taken - meaning you can't utilise your skilsl fully
3. You can't do epic's
4. Even if you want to do epics, it takes you about 20 minutes for the whole process of input/de-input
5. The LE breaks at 18/18 - fantastic
6. You can only re-implant it if you're below 30. That's the best one IMO.
-
Gain?
1. People can't PK you.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.
Smacktarded idea.
i dont mind it, it makes it the game it is.
cyberpunk, not some carebear world.
I thought the same thing until I played with it now.
It's retarded. Some people just don't want to PvP. Why should they be gimped (as bad as they are) for it?
Darth Slayer
13-11-04, 12:53
You know u can Bp LE's and build artifact quality ones. Or you could in Neocron.
Scorpius.
I see allies ganking allies all the time, leave it to me to find a game full of kids that are cursed with small dicks and want to take it out on whoever they can.
anouther popular thing that is done is they n00b puch you or knife you and once you do it back they run to a gaurd and attack it thus commiting suicide and vollah you have lost SL.
and why isnt SL loss such a big deal its called doing 2 quick kill jobs KS'ing low level in the sewers.
so here is how it goes if you wanna perpetually fuck people all day
1. camp a gene rep and kill your own faction laugh at them
2. go KS low levels in the sewers laugh some more
3. say I am gonna find other way to fuck people because no one will fuck my small dick
Thing is guys, its easy to go all out and blame the younger part of the community, when infact its a mix, I actually know people that play 'Dickheads' but are actually alright people..
Yes Allied ganking is wrong, the whole 'log your alt and kill' scenario is also wrong.. But it aint gonna change any time soon. :o
I don't really happen in DOY at least and I would have thought it be worse in doy with no copbots
There's just no need for it. Full stop. I was killed last night by one of the new drones by an ally - He was just testing - allegedly.
And I'm pretty sure it is the kids - infact - Positive.
There's just no need for it. Full stop. I was killed last night by one of the new drones by an ally - He was just testing - allegedly.
And I'm pretty sure it is the kids - infact - Positive.
Well, maybe.. In the new 'Neocron' but back when Neocron was popular and pluto was busy the heavy Pkers were infact mid 20's ,knowing them away from neocron..
There's just no need for it. Full stop. I was killed last night by one of the new drones by an ally - He was just testing - allegedly.
And I'm pretty sure it is the kids - infact - Positive.
i disagree about the kids part.
i have and will in the future gank an allie, for reasons im not gonna explain.
i am not some 12 year old who gets kicks from it.
the age group in my clan again i dont know of anyone inthe clan below the age of 18 except 1 person who is 16.
so this entire "kids" thing is silly, the majority of "kids" are just doing what the "non kids" do.
the genaralisations are pathetic, "all allied gankers come from Saturn" yea.......right.......
it beggars belief that people are so close minded and ageist against a side of the community that came from a different server than themselves.
I thought the same thing until I played with it now.
It's retarded. Some people just don't want to PvP. Why should they be gimped (as bad as they are) for it?
It's so nice to hear someone say this for a change... I get so sick of hearing 'take your LE out and deal with it'... Some people just don't seem to get the fact that some people might just enjoy exploring and collecting and pvm... Is it really that strange?
Big-up BlackDove :)
I don't think we're talking maturity by the age level. We're talking the mental state of a basic twelve year old.
Anyone who measures a "twelve year old" mentality by age, is a god damn idiot.
I've actually talked to people who now understand how we on Pluto with like 40 players actually enjoyed our little world with clean RP etc.
I miss it, but there were too few players :(
Furthermore, the CA FSM is selling LEs. Is this for a reason? Make them implantable again.
Darth Slayer
13-11-04, 14:47
NC seems much easier to play if you have the morals of a pikey teenager. The RolePlayers have left, the carebears are leaving, all that's gonna be left is inbred PKers called Cletus and noobs :(
Well maybe it won't be quite that bad...but NC PvP does certainly favour the ganker and griefer, so I'd not be surprised if on average they stayed longer than normal people.
Hey I did apologise for killing you at Battle dome remember....... o_O
I'm no Cletus or Noobs I kill red faction only.
Scorpius.
Jesterthegreat
13-11-04, 14:48
well he knows this community perfectly.
Welcome to Sat-erra.
cos it never happened on uranus... :p
the way i see it clans that hated each other in NC1, or clans with big ego's from other servers have all been brought together and told to play nice.
these clans have fought for years now.... they arent likely to stop because of soul light loss.
people dont bitch that a pro city kills an anti city that hasn't declared war (clans arent KOS) so if you know a clan kills allies, dont expect them to not attack you just cos you have no problem with you.
my clan has its fair share of allies we kill, and our fair share of allies who kill us.
:edit: and i would like to point out that all of VENOM are roughly 20 years old... not little 12 year old CS kiddies before anyone starts :p
Scorpius, you're not even on my top 200 of people who annoy me ;)
It's not just teenagers who PK of course, but the prevalent attitude of PKers does seem to be very childish, it's the school ground mentality of "I'm bigger so I can do what I want."
Some people were just bred to be arseholes, they can't be blamed for it. No doubt some of the stuff I do in game annoys the hell out of people (evil carebear me). It's just pretty depressing that the game rewards acting lame far more than it rewards being nice. Cyberpunk world it may be, but it's still a game. It would be boring if I everyone was always safe everywhere all the time...but right now we're at the other extreme, which isn't any better.
:edit: and i would like to point out that all of VENOM are roughly 20 years old... not little 12 year old CS kiddies before anyone starts :p
The brain doesn't fully develop until about age 23/24...so a 20 year old is just a 16 year old who needs to shave more :p
Jesterthegreat
13-11-04, 14:55
Scorpius, you're not even on my top 200 of people who annoy me ;)
It's not just teenagers who PK of course, but the prevalent attitude of PKers does seem to be very childish, it's the school ground mentality of "I'm bigger so I can do what I want."
Some people were just bred to be arseholes, they can't be blamed for it. No doubt some of the stuff I do in game annoys the hell out of people (evil carebear me). It's just pretty depressing that the game rewards acting lame far more than it rewards being nice. Cyberpunk world it may be, but it's still a game. It would be boring if I everyone was always safe everywhere all the time...but right now we're at the other extreme, which isn't any better.
you know its perfectly possible to be 100% safe from PKers no matter what level / zone your in (with the possible exception of NF)?
you know its perfectly possible to be 100% safe from PKers no matter what level / zone your in (with the possible exception of NF)?
I assume you mean the LE. Missing out of all the best parts of the game just to avoid all the worst parts doesn't seem like a very good trade to me. I'd rather the game was just adjusted slightly to make it slightly less of a gankfest and slightly more oriented towards OP warring and large scale fights.
Don't ask me how to do that, I'm a player not a designer :p
Jesterthegreat
13-11-04, 15:07
I assume you mean the LE. Missing out of all the best parts of the game just to avoid all the worst parts doesn't seem like a very good trade to me. I'd rather the game was just adjusted slightly to make it slightly less of a gankfest and slightly more oriented towards OP warring and large scale fights.
Don't ask me how to do that, I'm a player not a designer :p
when op waring is more than a match of the PPU's or match of numbers i will agree with you.
until then i dont
trigger hurt
13-11-04, 15:32
LE is
a) A piece of shit idea
b) A piece of shit implementation
Seriously, the whole nerf you are given if you wear the LE is prepostorus.
1. You can't be rezzed by normal players
2. You have a slot in the imp spot taken - meaning you can't utilise your skilsl fully
3. You can't do epic's
4. Even if you want to do epics, it takes you about 20 minutes for the whole process of input/de-input
5. The LE breaks at 18/18 - fantastic
6. You can only re-implant it if you're below 30. That's the best one IMO.
-
Gain?
1. People can't PK you.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.
Smacktarded idea.
How about...
Gain:
1. People can't PK you.
2. You don't drop a belt. Anywhere. Ever.
3. You get to live the easy life.
4. Your vehicles can't be blown up by people, if you are on 'em.
Seriously. The le isn't so bad as you make it out to be. Those restrictions are there for a reason. Without them, there would be no negatives to wearing an LE. There have to be negatives in order for the person to even consider pulling it. There's no nerf on xp gain from the LE, infact I've leveled my HC PE faster with his le in than I leveled my non-le tank. There's no money nerf either.
That's an awesome third point there. Easy life my ass. I see no difference than being cautious on my non-LE'ds or running around like a dumbass on the LE'd. I just don't have to turn on my brain when I walk the LE'd char.
As far as the vehicles thing goes - big deal. Nobody cares.
The belt thing is good.
And you just repeated the first thing I said.
That makes a grand total of 2 positive things with the LE.
As far as the vehicles thing goes - big deal. Nobody cares.
People who are new to the game, just spent 90% of their credits on a vehicle care. It is a big deal to them if their vehicle gets blown up by some lunatic (I have been that lunatic several times) as for most it is their first "big" purchase, if it disappears after 20 mins they are going to be a little pissed off.
Having said that, if the LE player jumps off it can be blown up easily and equally piss them off.
superfresh
13-11-04, 16:46
Without serious penalties to ally-ganking there's no point to the faction system. Then NC is just one big battledome. And most of us have probably graduated from Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, etc.. I know a lot of people like to go ballistic all the time but that's like saying you like checkers but don't like the black or red squares.
KK makes a lot of concessions to the players but I think this is an area where they need to stick to their conceptual plan regardless of what may be said on the forums, and create a stringent game mechanism that penalizes this sort of thing severely. The flip side is that a lot of players play their faction "appropriately" but may, say, nail an ally while levelling in the caves.
I think someone came up with an idea where if you get hit by an ally, you are given an opportunity to blow them away. Sounds nice.
Don't change the rules. Enforce them.
personally i hate allie ganking, it wasnt so bad in NC1 early days there was few who did it and they were famour through out the server so everyone pretty much knew them.
then time went on and more and more people started killing allies.
i dont mind it when its with a reason.
you know like 2 allied clans at war over a legitimate problem.
or you have a issue with one guy so you kill them, thats fine.
but when its idiots who are allied and attack allied for no reason it annoys me to say the least.
ive been involved in allied killings in the past, but there was *always* a reason behind it.
and i dont mean cos i was bored kinda reason im talking about a good proper hell you might even say "roleplay(ish)" reason
We know that if the LE is always implantable it makes pking worse - soon as you hit red SL you pop in an LE so you don't drop any items on death, removing the whole point of SL.
My perfect system would incorporate:
Inability to remove LE before skill rank 25
Inability to reimplant LE after skill level 30
No SL loss for a hostile faction kill
Normal SL loss for neutral kill
Massive SL loss (instant high -ve) for allied kill.
SL loss only occurs on highest damage dealer and the person that delivers the killing blow - within a set timeslice (such as 30 seconds). /setkill_self 1 does not give any SL loss to anyone.
Factions reworked so that every NC faction has CA as an ally, every DoY faction has TG as ally - all neutral to each other. CA is allied to all pro-nc factions making it the noob NC faction, TG the DoY. Citymercs neutral, but would need clan wars initiated (alternatives are allied or hostile to everyone - both of which i don't think would work).
On -80 FS with your current faction you become factionless, clanless and neutral to everyone. Faction guards in either city will KoS, city traders won't trade with you, no safeslot, imps can pop and drop in the same death, drop 5 items, items can no longer be stored in a gogo (although any items in there already stay until removed) and belt is not locked. FS cannot be restored (and thus neither can SL) except through turning yourself over to the NCPD for reprogramming (keep your items, lose all XP, start in CA faction) or to DoY bots for termination (keep your XP, lose all your items, start in TG faction) - you are now an outcast (has its own title and stuff).
Outcasts gain no money or XP for any mobs killed but money and XP for runners killed - XP and money gain for killing runners should be very high, far higher than killing any mobs, and even killing xx/25 runners should give good xp and money. They can access certain outcast areas, and can use certain special items that are -XX SL only (outcast PA for recognition).
I'm sure there are glaring flaws in those idea's, but you get where i'm headed. Being a successful outcast would be fairly prestigious, and very difficult - but not unattractive, and exciting for both sides. People who are just random gankers will quickly find themselves facing either all item loss, or all xp loss if they decide to try and ruin other people's gaming.
shRd-
some thing definetly needs to be done about the attiude of this game,just had my resser pked even tho i siad im non combat as he started shooting.
now if im on a combat alt then fire away ,may the best win but a lamer who carried on when they know i cant shhot back,hell u can see i havent got a gun etc is a total ************
There's just no need for it. Full stop. I was killed last night by one of the new drones by an ally - He was just testing - allegedly.
And I'm pretty sure it is the kids - infact - Positive.
It may be "the kids", however being part of the younger part of the community I know a fact that I don't like some cocky old fuck thinking he is better than me just because he is closer to be in an old people's home. If the older people stopped being patonising etc towards the younger people I am sure this problem would be made smaller.
Personally I won't attack an allied runner without good reason, however seeing as all my un-LE'd characters are capped/near capped, if I get attacked I have no trouble fighting to the death. However I can understand the problem here, and all I can say is if you get ganked by an allied runner make a note of their name and spam alliance warning others. Its surprising how many people will come to kill an allied ganker if you mention they have low SL.
EDIT:
Factions reworked so that every NC faction has CA as an ally, every DoY faction has TG as ally - all neutral to each other. CA is allied to all pro-nc factions making it the noob NC faction, TG the DoY. Citymercs neutral, but would need clan wars initiated (alternatives are allied or hostile to everyone - both of which i don't think would work).
Nice idea, and it makes sense. However it would make CA/TG the ideal faction for n00bs, not a n00b faction. Look at the map of Terra, I'd say about 50-60% of the map is held by 2 CA clans and a TG clan.
Hahah, of course. For CA/TG I meant the faction ideal for new players to start off in (since allied to all, and allied kills make baby jesus cry, new players are less likely to get ally killed once they take thier LE out). Read noob as new player, not n00b :cool:
shRd-
Hahah, of course. For CA/TG I meant the faction ideal for new players to start off in (since allied to all, and allied kills make baby jesus cry, new players are less likely to get ally killed once they take thier LE out). Read noob as new player, not n00b :cool:
shRd-
:p :lol:
I knew what you meant, its just some people have the nasty tendancy of taking what they read on the forums far too seriously so by the time they get ingame they can gank any CA available :p .
So Social-Zero, if you are reading this, take note: PAIN > j00
Richard Angelus
13-11-04, 19:48
hmmm as far as I know, faction guards should shoot at runner with negativ symp.... even they are in a neutral/allied faction (it was supposed to working this way, right?)
but last time I had -40 FA Symp (as a Crahn, because of a epic NPC), the FA guards doesn't shoot at me :wtf:
when this system is working, their should be no more problems with allied/neutral ganking (beside allied/neutral ganking in Warzones and provoke with boxing)
People who are new to the game, just spent 90% of their credits on a vehicle care. It is a big deal to them if their vehicle gets blown up by some lunatic (I have been that lunatic several times) as for most it is their first "big" purchase, if it disappears after 20 mins they are going to be a little pissed off.
Having said that, if the LE player jumps off it can be blown up easily and equally piss them off.
Erm, I don't know the game you play/server - but the game I play, especially in the wastes (where you drive) I see a grand total of 1 people on average, and that happens only when I drive by.
VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
If you stopped to let someone gank your vehicle, you deserved it.
THE_TICK!!!!
13-11-04, 21:19
It's so nice to hear someone say this for a change... I get so sick of hearing 'take your LE out and deal with it'... Some people just don't seem to get the fact that some people might just enjoy exploring and collecting and pvm... Is it really that strange?
Big-up BlackDove :)
blackdove...we do understand that some people enjoy exploring and whatnot..but the fundamentals of the game dictate that its dangerous..you WILL get ganked. it happens..its part of neocron..now i DONT like infaction pk..its ******** and it lowers the moral of the troops so to speak. Neocron is sposed to be dangerous..i think KK was being generous when he implemented the LE.. and it does what its made to do..no more no less. no i love to pvp but i also love to hunt..get cool drops and whatnot..and i get pretty steamed when i get PK'd while doing it...but i DO realize its part of the game and i do what i can to avoid gettin owned.. but if i cant i just add em to my list...people on my list die ALL the time..so i think it evens it out
Erm, I don't know the game you play/server - but the game I play, especially in the wastes (where you drive) I see a grand total of 1 people on average, and that happens only when I drive by.
VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
If you stopped to let someone gank your vehicle, you deserved it.
Generally, new people are inqusitive and stop at things that look interesting, Outposts and the like not knowing of the dangours inside. It does not take long to blow up the none combat vehicles and if you are taken by surprise it is often hard for new people to react in a way that will prevent them, or their vehicle from going kaboom.
Most blowing up tends to happen at ASG's anyway, where the vehicle gets spawned and it takes a while sometimes to find where the damn thing is, if you happen to be unlucky and someone else finds it first..well your screwed. That happens with or without the LE.
The fact still remains, if a newbie is investing 90% of their cash in a vehicle and it blows up, they are gonna be pissed, so that means _they_ care if a vehicle is blown up. It's not all about experienced players you know and lately the majority of new players will never become experienced as they get too annoyed. Shit for them, shit for me, shit for you, shit for the community as a whole.
Having said that, if the LE player jumps off it can be blown up easily and equally piss them off.
I thought if the LE gets off his vehicle it can only be damaged down to 10%, but not destroyed.
Was this a rumor or has it been changed?
I thought if the LE gets off his vehicle it can only be damaged down to 10%, but not destroyed.
Was this a rumor or has it been changed?
you have been able to blow it up for long time, its only while they are on it can it not be blow up by runners
There are certainly those that are pre-disposed to acting like dumbasses ingame. But I think a much larger portion are people that would play nicely if the game was structured better. They've gone astray for many reasons. For example a big one is simple boredom.
Frankly nc does not have enough content to support pve players yet also does not have enough pvp to support pvp players. It does well to support those that do a mix of the two, but it leaves others out in the cold. Many capped players have nothing left to do in nc but pvp and that's sorely lacking. Op wars are totaly stagnant, it's been the same thing with only a few changes for over a year. So they look for entertainment elsewhere, sometimes they can get a good fight going in known pvp spots like pepper park. But most often to find pvp you have to go find where people are at. And where will you find the most people? At a hunting spot. Now you've sunk to ganking as your only way to still enjoy pvp. Once you get stuck in that rut, it's hard to get out of.
In short the blame is not in nc's community but in nc for not giving us a positive way to enjoy the game.
Thing is guys, its easy to go all out and blame the younger part of the community, when infact its a mix, I actually know people that play 'Dickheads' but are actually alright people
I agree. Some of the worst people who I have met ingame (and once upon a time, have been in a clan with) are actually the older guys of this game
On -80 FS with your current faction you become factionless, clanless and neutral to everyone. Faction guards in either city will KoS, city traders won't trade with you, no safeslot, imps can pop and drop in the same death, drop 5 items, items can no longer be stored in a gogo (although any items in there already stay until removed) and belt is not locked. FS cannot be restored (and thus neither can SL) except through turning yourself over to the NCPD for reprogramming (keep your items, lose all XP, start in CA faction) or to DoY bots for termination (keep your XP, lose all your items, start in TG faction) - you are now an outcast (has its own title and stuff).
Outcasts gain no money or XP for any mobs killed but money and XP for runners killed - XP and money gain for killing runners should be very high, far higher than killing any mobs, and even killing xx/25 runners should give good xp and money. They can access certain outcast areas, and can use certain special items that are -XX SL only (outcast PA for recognition).
The Outcast idea sounds impressive but may be hard to impliment, I don't think the rejoining TG with only items loss working, people will just trade everything they have to a friend.. how about an mc5 chip of your choice to get out of Outcast-mode (ie, just factionless). I expecially like the PA idea, we need far more PA's as it is (seriously try adding 10 times as many sorts - doesn't have to have different stats, just different looks.. I'd prefer it if they weren't all just recoloured versions of the old ones too), I'm refusing to wear PA cause I'm sick of looking like everyone else.
Also I think there should be a Pure Traders (faction?), neutral to everyone, which you may join for free (TH Administration) but there is no epic item and no real benefits other than being neutral to all, then make neutral kills put you factionless and into -SL. Allied kills should instantly put you as Outcast.
Maybe one major thing to change is removing the lock on belts dropped by anyone with -negative SL... I don't really know how any of those ideas will work, I'm new to this game.. all I can see is the current system isn't working (I stopped playing my main char when I removed his le - rank capped) and I'm only playing my le alt's :(
The Bounty System (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=118271)
Carinth, the other problem is: What are you gonna do with a pure combat character? You cannot do anything else than fighting, be it against mobs or other players. You can blame KK for having us to specialize that mad, but adding more content ... you would need like the size of whole Neocron again to keep the experienced players busy for a tad bit longer time. MUDs and the descendants, the MMORPGs, have always been about how you make the game for yourself. Neocron allows you a certain freedom in character skills, but normally renders you combat ineffective at the same time. It's mostly how you make the game for yourself, you have to set your goals, and when you reached them find new ones or quit the game and look elsewhere for something interesting.
And to add to Gentys argument: New players means more accounts for KK => more money for KK => more resources to operate => game can get better/get more content in a shorter time => growing game gets more new players. Killing them all off is like digging your own grave. Naturally, the gamedesign plays an important role (faction/SL system for example).
Dr Strange
14-11-04, 07:36
What's funny is people like gankers at genreps, same faction gankers etc have 2 "philosphies" about;
1 is the typical counter strike mentality "Because I can". It's funny cause they can constantly kill you and not even care about the "punishment" they are given in terms of soullight and symp, and yet if you chose to annoy them and waste their time too say by constantly DMing them with new characters KK considers THAT harassment but won't consider genrep ganking or better yet faction ganking harassment. Sure if you have a solid case of griefing it might result in like a warning or something stupid but they continue "Because I can". Welcome to Counter-Neocron-Strike.
2 is "It's pvp." I'm sorry, when someone has 40% synap from teleporting somewhere to hunt mobs of monsters not players, and they can't fight back at all cause hey most times when yer completely synched in yer already dead or damn near dying, is not pvp. Thats more like player vs guy-with-blindfold-handcuffed-gagged-hog tied. aka no way to defend youself. But noooo as these guys claim "It's pvp".
this is like a bad carny game, you keep pumping money into but you can never knock down all three milk jars... (a frustration analogy)
Blacksword
14-11-04, 09:04
There should be either player reporting, by allowing the victim to decide whether someone that damaged them at some point before they die to decide whether they take sl penalties. I never kill allied or neutral, but ive lost my 100sl twice with someone just touching a barrel, not getting damaged hardly, but dieing to a mob, then im -12. either that, or make anyone that has caused 25% or more damage within a minute of the players death take the hit. it sucks when someone jumps in your way when you are killing someone/something and they get hit once or twice cause then youre fucked. not that sl is that big a deal really atm. now i give up on it, if i get negative, ill to 3 or 4 aggressor missions or something to get it positive again. i cant be bothered to get max soulight since its so stupidly easy to lose.
This game needs more people. looking for three hours or more to find a player to kill that fills an epic mission is retarded. i looked for a bd for a good 3-4 hours, all over the top part of the map, and two hours in doy itself. i found two, and they stealthed away:( I even spent an hour trying to buy a freaking kill.
i think if the box releases go well, the allied ganking will go down. as it is, i see red, i dont wait to fire, even if its a tank that will probably kill me, cause who knows if ill see another red faction in an hour or so, unless i want to go to a gr or something. Ive always thought the lack of players was the single biggest problem with this game.
Ive always thought the lack of players was the single biggest problem with this game.
True, but what are the reasons for so few players?
That's what needs to be addressed and changed.
trigger hurt
14-11-04, 11:50
That's an awesome third point there. Easy life my ass. I see no difference than being cautious on my non-LE'ds or running around like a dumbass on the LE'd. I just don't have to turn on my brain when I walk the LE'd char.
As far as the vehicles thing goes - big deal. Nobody cares.
The belt thing is good.
And you just repeated the first thing I said.
That makes a grand total of 2 positive things with the LE.
If:
Not having to pay for armor because you dropped it in your belt
Not having to buy or build new weapons because you dropped them in your belt
Having tons of money because you save from not dropping stuff in your belt
Being able to hunt whever, whenever you want
Is not "easy", then you should define what is easy. I've been leveling an HC PE for 3 days. Now, I level slow cause I don't play mindlessly for hours on end until I cap. I am already at 30 psi, 40 str, 42 con, 30 int and 35 dex. I started the char with his base cash, made 3 newbie weapons for him on an alt and started leveling. At this moment, he is up to about 1.5 mil by leveling and selling the junk. Now, that's about 4 or 5 hours a day for 3 days. If I keep up this same pattern, I can be at 20 mil in a month or so and be fully capped or close to it.
That...is the easy life.
Doc Holliday
14-11-04, 15:44
If:
Not having to pay for armor because you dropped it in your belt
Not having to buy or build new weapons because you dropped them in your belt
Having tons of money because you save from not dropping stuff in your belt
Being able to hunt whever, whenever you want
Is not "easy", then you should define what is easy. I've been leveling an HC PE for 3 days. Now, I level slow cause I don't play mindlessly for hours on end until I cap. I am already at 30 psi, 40 str, 42 con, 30 int and 35 dex. I started the char with his base cash, made 3 newbie weapons for him on an alt and started leveling. At this moment, he is up to about 1.5 mil by leveling and selling the junk. Now, that's about 4 or 5 hours a day for 3 days. If I keep up this same pattern, I can be at 20 mil in a month or so and be fully capped or close to it.
That...is the easy life.
damn good point.
Welcome to Sat-erra.
You only call it that because you are jealous that Saturn was > all.
Its great seeing some random guy attack an ally in Plaza 1. Everyone's like "It's ok, he's from Saturn ^^". Thats what makes us special, the fact we know this is only a game, and that when a number goes negative that after a while it'll go back positive again.
the age group in my clan again i dont know of anyone inthe clan below the age of 18 except 1 person who is 16.
Rarrr! Its a fair point, everyone in PAIN is older than me, the majority of people in the 20-30 bracket. Therefore, the statement about Saturn being full of kids is infact bullshit, as I know that most of the decent/large clans on Saturn wouldn't appreciate some young kid if they were immature/cocky.
Content isn't the answer to everything, infact it's only a temporary escape in neocron. What kk would need to do is improve the pvp system so that we have fun doing normal pvp and don't have to resort to ganking players in hunting zones. You're never going to get rid of the jerks who take pleasure in ganking, but i'll bet the number of gankers would go down if you gave them a positive outlet for pvp.
If you improve clan pvp and op wars you'll take away a large chunk of the griefers. The few sadists aside, most really would rather be doing some more engaging pvp. Actualy testing your skills against an opponent, instead of just jumping them. Then for those that don't participate in clans or those in clans not able to op war, there should be a positive outlet aswell. Areas like pp1 used to fill this role, if you hung out there chances are you'd run into someone hostile to fight. Belt drops really crippled this form of pvp, you don't get an immediate reward for killing someone. Chances are you don't get anything at all, a random noob hacker who stops by gets all the loot.
Of course the real problem is a viscious feedback loop we're in. Low populations make the remaining people bored, when you can spend hours in pepper park and not run into anyone else. This leads to more people quitting the game or more gankers looking for any pvp at all. Gankers lead to more people quitting. It's especialy bad now because we carried over all the discontent/bored people from nc1. It's nowonder we lost so many already.
The SL system, the zone based restrictions, faction sympathy, and belt drops are all factors modifying our pvp experience.
It may be "the kids", however being part of the younger part of the community I know a fact that I don't like some cocky old fuck
EGADS MAN! I'm 20.
thinking he is better than me just because he is closer to be in an old people's home.
Naw - If I was better than you - I'd show it ingame wouldn't I?
If the older people stopped being patonising etc towards the younger people I am sure this problem would be made smaller.
Woah Bucko! (okay so that was patronising - however it was deserved) - where the hell did you get that crap from? I said it was the kids - and infact I was positive. Which I am. I get killed - I recieve DMs Like "OMFG - you're such a fucking NOOB!" Which I'm more inclined to brush off because it sounds like something a Kid would say. if there was a 20something wandering around calling me a NOOB - I wouldn't know where to stat laying into him...
Not just that - it's the behaviour - I know that on the net - peoples maturity drops purely because people can do what they please - but christ - some of te things you see ingame are just damn immature.
Personally I won't attack an allied runner without good reason, however seeing as all my un-LE'd characters are capped/near capped, if I get attacked I have no trouble fighting to the death. However I can understand the problem here, and all I can say is if you get ganked by an allied runner make a note of their name and spam alliance warning others. Its surprising how many people will come to kill an allied ganker if you mention they have low SL.
EDIT:
Nice idea, and it makes sense. However it would make CA/TG the ideal faction for n00bs, not a n00b faction. Look at the map of Terra, I'd say about 50-60% of the map is held by 2 CA clans and a TG clan.
Last half was pretty reasonable - just wondering where you got the hostility from.
My standpoint remains - there's a lot of kiddo's on the servers.
Last half was pretty reasonable - just wondering where you got the hostility from.
My standpoint remains - there's a lot of kiddo's on the servers.
1) People automatically assume that someone they got ganked by who replies with "OMFG n00b!!!!1!1!!!!oneoneoneninebillionandthreeeggs" is a kid
2) People automatically assume that all this allied ganking etc is by Saturn people, and from personal experience on Terra I have seen that Uranus and Pluto had its fair share of wankers as well
3) People don't consider what it is like to be part of the younger community
I totally agree to Carinth.
I don't kill allied people for no reason. Why should I, it's senseless and boring too. But I am also not very sad if there is some trouble with an allied clan that leads to a war. I mean it's at least a bit action for a few days ;)
When I am looking for action and there is no op fight, I log on my tank and visit some well known places to look for some enemies. Sometimes alone, sometimes with friends. If I find some leveling nubs or midlevels, I often leave them alone or perhaps shoot one time at 'em, say Hi, give 'em a heal and disappear, simply because I am bored. :angel:
If there are highlevels somewhere, we'll surely attack them since that's the reason why I or we have visited that place. I am not so interested in hunting, leveling, collecting rares etc. anymore and good op-fights happen not every day.
A little raid is something, that you can do anytime when you are bored and want some action. That's why I/we do it. :cool:
Can't fucking wait til WarGames opens so I can PvP without 30 mins of getting ready
1) People automatically assume that someone they got ganked by who replies with "OMFG n00b!!!!1!1!!!!oneoneoneninebillionandthreeeggs" is a kid
2) People automatically assume that all this allied ganking etc is by Saturn people, and from personal experience on Terra I have seen that Uranus and Pluto had its fair share of wankers as well
3) People don't consider what it is like to be part of the younger community
i agree, it seems if something happens that a player dont like its automatically presumed the offender was a Saturnite
i played pluto also along with saturn and i found just as many morons there as on saturn.
cant comment on younger players as tbh of the clans ive been in theres been few people under 18 in the clan
The WoW system is okay, if you the enemy is in your zone, you have to attack them first before they can attack you (safe zones) Then there is where everyone can attack each others.
Get back the safe zones fuck the random ganking at P1 and DOY CC.
Mr Friendly
15-11-04, 03:04
welcome to 1 of the reasons im not playin nc2 @_@
& no its not on the "younger" part of the community, most the 'dicks' i met were actually around ages 23+ , which is pretty sad the teens annoyed me less =\ & gettin annoyed/aggrivated by someone everyday isnt what i call a good game.
__________________
hacking. never got hacked but this is moreof about trust in this game & the "dicks"
some of u should know Blazer12 that was in DarK for a long time. a new guy joined the clan & was in the clan for a good 3 months b4 he quit, good friends with blazer, we all liked em. till one day blazer logs on to find his char at 99% si & his psi core, DS, all rare apu spells gone. THOUGH, he was high & said he was sorry, blazer got his stuff back.
-ONE WEEK LATER-
the same guy gets on blazer's account, cept this time he deleted it, & quit neocron....so did Blazer
________________________
lil advice for all of u, dont trust neone in this game no matter how good of friends u are to them or how "well-known" they are.
certain ppl in this game *ill refrain from mentioning em* that will do nething to be better than everyone else, ie: LoMn to the overpowered weapons, then when its patched they LoM back, etc, guys that think they're good, yet u never see them newhere without a ppu walkin em on a leash. <- one of the many types of "dicks" u have in the game.
You can't put a bracket on players who Gank someone that can't fight back. Its not Saturn, or the Kids, its just people. However, like all things, Neocron needs balance, in order to maintain populations, to grow, and last more than a year or two more. From what I've seen of Terra, the atmosphere is very dangerous, and nothing like the beginning of Neocron 1, when ganking was very rare.
As an example, last night my un-clanned ppu was driving around tagging all the genreps in the wastes. I saw 4 different groups of people on my travels, and all 4 attacked me. Worse than that though, 3 of the 4 groups were allied factions 8| They didn't even stop to consider who I was, just opened fire.
What I think we have forgotten is that in moving from Neocron 1 to 2, it is now pretty much accepted that any enemy faction member should be attacked. I think that the vast majority of the population now attack on sight. Well I think this is wrong, and I think its what has caused the allied ganking, people are basically going round fighting no matter what.
Personally, I will never attack another runner, even if he is enemy faction, unless he attacks me first or its an op war. I'd rather talk to him first, or just let him go about his business. But I'm starting to think that I can count the number of players who don't shoot first on my right hand alone...
But at the end of the day this is how the mechanics of the game work, this is how KK want it to be played. We have never seen a statement from them discouraging this type of gameplay, it is up to us to regulate this problem ourselves, or convince them to put more controls in-game to make the game better.
What he said.
The problem is, I don't think KK will ever tell us how this game is meant to be played, nor will they restrict certain playstyles unless they have obviously crossed the line when it comes to the T&C.
What we have is a sand pit with clubs in it. You can sit down and make sand castles if you like, but there's nothing stopping someone else from smashing in your castle - or your face - with one of the clubs; It's not against the rules, because there are no rules. Like a negligant parent, KK has provided both yet seems reluctant to take responsiblity for the outcome.
Self policing is the only effective method - essentially imposing our "better" style of play on those who may not want it, but that in itself becomes boring, and when it gets boring, people quit.
In early retail on Pluto we were in a similar situation, except we also had 500+ people most of the time (not just during prime time). It was a common activity for capped chars to run down into the sewers and clear out all the noobs, this was before hunting zones existed. Even for me hunting out at the graves, some arses would still run in kill everyone, then leave. The difference between now and then is that back then we had enough sensible players that organizations grew with the purpose of fighting those gankers. We formed friends, made clans, then began to hunt the hunters. I remember running around nc checking each of the main sewers/cellars for any known gankers. Along the way I'd help out new players, showing them that the game isn't all full of "bad" people. Part of the fun was being a good guy and fighting them.
Unfortuanetly the gankers did their damage and we lost tons of new players, kk reacted and introduced hunting zones and later the warped sl system. That was the first wave of existing players to go, the "bad" guys. Once enemies started drying up, the "good" guys had little choice but to turn on each other. We had a long time of really fun fights and what we biasedly call nc's best times. But even that degraded as more and more people left. Soon you nolonger had good or bad, everyone had slipped down at some point. Using shady tactics or whatever it takes to win, which is where we're at now.
In early retail on Pluto we were in a similar situation, except we also had 500+ people most of the time (not just during prime time). It was a common activity for capped chars to run down into the sewers and clear out all the noobs, this was before hunting zones existed. Even for me hunting out at the graves, some arses would still run in kill everyone, then leave. The difference between now and then is that back then we had enough sensible players that organizations grew with the purpose of fighting those gankers. We formed friends, made clans, then began to hunt the hunters. I remember running around nc checking each of the main sewers/cellars for any known gankers. Along the way I'd help out new players, showing them that the game isn't all full of "bad" people. Part of the fun was being a good guy and fighting them.
Unfortuanetly the gankers did their damage and we lost tons of new players, kk reacted and introduced hunting zones and later the warped sl system. That was the first wave of existing players to go, the "bad" guys. Once enemies started drying up, the "good" guys had little choice but to turn on each other. We had a long time of really fun fights and what we biasedly call nc's best times. But even that degraded as more and more people left. Soon you nolonger had good or bad, everyone had slipped down at some point. Using shady tactics or whatever it takes to win, which is where we're at now.
sad but true
i started the game as one of those that got ganked, then i grew a bit and would help fight the gankers, then as you say the bad guys left, and i had no choice but to be one of them.
no im pretty much retired from the fighting scene, ive gotten bored of the bad guy role because everyone is pretty much a bad guy to, but there is no gain to being the good guy like it used to be so why bother :(
(eXo) Opaleye
18-11-04, 21:44
All good points and no solutions coming from KK :rolleyes:
-FN- has a good idea with the bounty system.
I had an idea with gr safety timer in non OP leveling areas for prevention of GR camping greifers.
I saw an idea where at a certain negative level players would go "outcast" or anarchy and leave both cities factions forever.
I saw another where below -30 the faction guards would KOS the runnner.
I aggree with al of these solutions as viable posibilities to address the NC2 atmosphere (it sux).
I would love to see more pvp related content, other than neo frag, and more OP wars going on. More clans fighting for ops (we need more players) which brings me to my point:
NC2 is going to go belly up before the new players get to the "fun" levels due to the lack of control in the pvp and actions of the less mature players that are oviously bored as hell ingame and are making it a terrible game to log in to.
I love to pvp with chars that are leveled to the point of being able to fight back with the near or capped pvp players but having to keep the le in to level without CONSTANT harrassment is not at all fun, which is why we are all playing games for in the first place.
Either change the status of the le'd players to allow options for them to do epics and other game content, IMO pvm players seem to make up a large percentage of NC2's population and should be allowed to play and pay for the play experience they choose.
So KK please take note and think about both sides in this matter.
Mods please alert / forward this issue to the proper people to keep the game thriving.
dark_reaper
19-11-04, 03:24
It was true about Pluto, at first it was a Gank Fest, blood bath, massicure. Everyone killed eachother. Near the end it is more of a Community. enemy faction members hang out chating with each other. People were actually friendly.
Now it is even worse than it was in the Early NC. People gank everywhere. The LE's are no fun. It will be lovely to bring back the safe zones in NC like in Plaza, Via Rosso. It is a major bitch to get ganked when you are researching and or constructing. You cannot do much.
Bring back the Safezones!!!!
Now it is even worse than it was in the Early NC. People gank everywhere. The LE's are no fun. It will be lovely to bring back the safe zones in NC like in Plaza, Via Rosso. It is a major bitch to get ganked when you are researching and or constructing. You cannot do much.
I suggest you stop trading in Plaza/ViaRosso as much and turn to the Faction HQs, Tech Haven....the new safezones. Need to adapt to the changes not carry on like it is NC1.
oh ffs, stop with the safe zone crap please, i'm fed up with it.
remove all safezones rather than add new ones.
The problem lies in the people's mentality not the game itself. I'm trading with my tradeskilling char on plaza 1 almost every day and been killed like 3 times from the beggining of NC2. And yeah, i got all gloves on me & all 150 tools and lots of valuable stuff. So what, get over with it, NC is a dangerous world, even for a tradeskillers there has to be some danger otherwise it will become boring. Simply.
I assume its this time of the year when everyone's start crying about everything: Ohnoez, gankers; ohnoez i lost my belt; ohnoez i got killed; ohnoez xx are overpowered.
Dont get addicted to your items or money or anything *too much*. Get used to dieing *or* just be careful...
And actually, i think that terra is way more safer than nc1 ever was, i've played on both pluto and saturn and both were slaughter and gankfest for me. Terra is nowhere like those. At least from my point of view.
Risk, danger are the most valuables features of NC, along with the storyline they makes the cyberpunk NC world alive. That is what keep people addicted to it so much - it's almost real. Yes, it can get on your nerves, pretty often, but u have to realise that it is a game and get used to it, forget about it, simply dont care that much.
I'm dieing pretty often in nc2 as i'm lvling spies nowadays. Already lost few PAs, few 5 slotted spells (which i transfered from nc1), countless amount of stealth 1-2-3, and spend around 1 mil on new excellent auto backpack retrieval feature :p Yet, somehow, it doesnt bother me that much... Instead of crying i'm going back to fight. Instead of whining that i got killed by gr camers i choose another gr and risk (yeah!), instead of moaning that i got ganked and lost something in the belt i go to p1 to find a constructor to make me a new item.
Just keep it easy.
[edit] on a sidenote: NC2 faction system actually encourage gankers to do their job and reward them with faction sympathy points for continuosly pkiling enemies. Faction sympathy gain is about 3 times better than any mission, so they are "motivated" to pk, camping gr, repeatedly killing noobs etc - as everyone need to keep his/her sympathy high nowadays, due to FSM goodies.
It was true about Pluto, at first it was a Gank Fest, blood bath, massicure. Everyone killed eachother. Near the end it is more of a Community. enemy faction members hang out chating with each other. People were actually friendly.
Now it is even worse than it was in the Early NC. People gank everywhere. The LE's are no fun. It will be lovely to bring back the safe zones in NC like in Plaza, Via Rosso. It is a major bitch to get ganked when you are researching and or constructing. You cannot do much.
Bring back the Safezones!!!!
Yes Pluto was community in the end but mainly due to the lack of population. The one character slot also helped because everyone got to know each other.
I like how the safezones are now removed. There's a bit of excitement every now and again ;)
Its pretty much like NC1 during the first 6 months of retail ..... I got ganked so many times I knew who to look out for. I had to pretty much live with it so it ain't that bad ..... but the real issue should be to fix Monk-o-cron so that PPUs aren't treated like siamese twins :P
Dr Strange
19-11-04, 15:28
instead of moaning that i got ganked and lost something in the belt i go to p1 to find a constructor to make me a new item.
Just keep it easy.
It's not so easy for us anti-city. Especially at nighttime on Terra. Sure there's TH and the NC trade channel but after 11pm or so est it gets very rare to find a CST, few ressers and pokers around but very few CST. For us nighttime players, thats a roadblock when it comes to getting a new item made simply because some lame pker decided to get his rocks off by killing you at a gen rep before you could even synch in fully.
Ya gotta love exploits.
Bugs Gunny
19-11-04, 15:40
Why do you expect to have vehicle constructors in DOY when they can't even fix up their own appartements? :-)
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